TELECOM Digest Thu, 18 Nov 93 14:18:00 CST Volume 13 : Issue 767 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: MCI Internet Service (Jim Graham) Re: MCI Internet Service (Steven King) Re: 65 Per Line or 65*per Line? (Paul Robinson) Re: NPA 905 Not Universally Recognized (David Esan) Re: NPA 905 Not Universally Recognized (Andrew M. Dunn) Re: NPA 905 Not Universally Recognized (Scott D. Fybush) Re: NPA 905 Not Universally Recognized (Tony Harminc) Re: NPA 905 Not Universally Recognized (John Little) Re: NPA 905 Not Universally Recognized (Carl Moore) NPA 905, NAFTA and Mexico Area Codes (Robert Casey) Re: Check From MCI; What to Do? (Steve Lamont) Re: Check From MCI; What to Do? (Mark W. Schumann) Re: Strange T1 Behavior (David Devereaux-Weber) Re: Strange T1 Behavior (Dave Levenson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jim@n5ial.mythical.com (Jim Graham) Subject: Re: MCI Internet Service Organization: Future site of Vaporware Corporation (maybe). --Teletoons (NW) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 02:39:49 GMT Well, I do believe we have a record here! This makes three posts from me to comp.dcom.telecom in less than one week (I normally expect my posts here to go the same route as the first two of the three this week ... into the Moderator's bit bucket, regardless of the content, so I usually just don't bother). In article cazier@gothamcity.jsc.nasa. gov writes: > I have a friend living in Grants Pass, Oregon, who wishes to connect > to Internet but currently has to call long distance to gain access to > a univeristy account for e-mail access. MCI offers something similar > via an 800 number but you have to pay $0.50 for the first K of data > and then $0.29 for each K thereafter ... Ugggghhhh .... what a horrible price! Your friend needs to setup some type of batched process for getting mail and downloading it (UUCP would be an ideal solution). With a V.32bis modem and V.42 error control, you're looking at around 1724 cps (see the first of my three posts to comp.dcom.telecom in this past week for details on how to get at that number). At 1724 cps, that amounts to about 800k per minute, and with the AT&T calling plan I'm on, that's 10 cents for around 800k, vs around $230 for that same amount of data, assuming batched mail handling (such as UUCP). Ok, your friend doesn't want to setup UUCP? No problem. Just get on something like the program I'm on (I think it's called Evening Plus, or something like that), and from 1900 to 0800 S-F, and 1900 Fri to 1700 Sunday, it's ten cents/minute flat rate within the US (intra-state calls are more, obviously, and your mileage may vary). And then don't spend time reading mail online -- save it to a file, download it (if you can, use Zmodem), read it, type up any response(s), upload the response(s), and then mail them. > Or other means to legally access Internet e-mail? The easiest, and usually by far the cheapest, is to get a local UUCP feed. If you run dog on a PC, you'll need something like UUPC, which is UUCP for the PC. :-) That's how I'm setup here. I have a UUCP feed (actually, I have two feeds), and all of my Internet e-mail is via those feeds. Setup is a bit tricky if you're not a computer whiz (I personally found setting up UUCP to be rather trivial, for the most part), but once it's setup, you just let it run on its own. Another thing you can always do is find a local public access UNIX site. Refer to the nixpub listing (which, I believe, is still posted regularly in comp.misc) for sites near you. Feel free to e-mail me for info on how to find a local feed, etc., as well as more details on setting things up, good reference material, and so on. > [Moderator's Note: If all he wants to do is get email, there are lots > of ways to get that. [ .... -jdg ] > If all he wants is email access, then MCI Mail offers that, as does > Sprint Mail and ATT Mail. Is that all he wants? PAT] Those are rather expensive options, compared to something as cheap as a simple UUCP feed or using a public access UNIX site ... I personally would *NOT* recommend those choices, unless you just have money to burn, and don't care about some of the problems you might encounter (e.g., my previous employer uses one of the above, and incoming mail has this nasty habit of not being delivered, and not having any error messages sent to the originator of the e-mail ... in other words, it isn't worth a d*mn). Well, considering the fact that it's highly doubtful that this will even get posted, I think I'll stop here ... jim #include 73 DE N5IAL (/4) INTERNET: jim@n5ial.mythical.com | j.graham@ieee.org ICBM: 30.23N 86.32W AMATEUR RADIO: (packet station temporarily offline) AMTOR SELCAL: NIAL [Moderator's Note: Why do you feel it is 'highly doubtful it will get posted'? I can't remember any messages from you which specifically were not posted recently, although at 100-125 messages per day, the majority being replies to something previously posted/replied to, there has to be a cut off somewhere. PAT] ------------------------------ From: king@rtsg.mot.com (Steven King) Subject: Re: MCI Internet Service Date: 18 Nov 1993 15:01:50 GMT Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group Reply-To: king@rtsg.mot.com In comp.dcom.telecom cazier@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov writes: > While I don't want to focus on MCI, I reference MCI as an example to > pose my question. I have a friend living in Grants Pass, Oregon, who > wishes to connect to Internet but currently has to call long distance > to gain access to a univeristy account for e-mail access. MCI offers > something similar via an 800 number but you have to pay $0.50 for the > first K of data and then $0.29 for each K thereafter ... this may be > about the best deal one can get from a site like Grants Pass ... but > it would seem that the Northwest Bell system would offer some type of > inexpensive Eugene, OR, line so he could access Internet via the > University there. > Is anyone aware of inexpensive services like this that interface with > Internet? Or other means to legally access Internet e-mail? Gahh!!! Are you sure you're not quoting prices per MEGAbyte of data, instead of per KILObyte of data? Remember that a kilobyte, 1024 bytes, is less than a full screenful of text. $.29/K would be the most exhobitant rate I've ever heard of. There's a company called Speedway you might be interested in. I don't work for them and I'm not even a customer, but they might fit your needs nicely. They give free dial-up access to the net. The catch? You must call them via AT&T. They're directly connected to AT&T, not the local telco, and they make their money off of kickbacks. Since you can use any AT&T calling plan you normally would, this can be a pretty good deal. For example, AT&T's Reach Out America plan puts long distance at $.12/minute or thereabouts. Using a 14.4 kbps modem and a batch transmission like UUCP, PPP, or SLIP this works out to around 100K/minute. This is quite reasonable for a news and mail feed. Also, look for the Public Dialup Internet Access List (PDIAL). This lists a lot of public access Internet providers. Most if not all of these are for-pay commercial services. The newsgroup alt.internet.access. wanted may also be of service to you. If you're primarily interested in Usenet news and email and not so much in ftp, telnet, and other Internet goodies check out the Nixpub list. This is a listing of public access Unix systems. These systems may or may not have what you're looking for and they may or may not charge, but it's certainly a place to begin your investigations. Another source is looking for BBS lists local to your area. You can look on the net in alt.bbs.lists and maybe comp.bbs.misc. Also, call around to local computer stores and user's groups and ask if they know of any BBSs in the area. Most BBSs carry lists of other local BBSs so you get kind of a snowball effect very quickly. Hopefully you can find one that carries what you need. Public Dialup Internet Access List (PDIAL) kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski) alt.internet.access.wanted, alt.bbs.lists, ba.internet, news.answers Nixpub List phil@bts.com (Phil Eschallier) all.bbs, comp.bbs.misc, comp.misc The above lists can be found in the listed groups and are available for ftp at rtfm.mit.edu. Steven King -- Motorola Cellular Infrastructure Group ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 13:18:59 EST Reply-To: 0005066432@MCIMAIL.COM Subject: Re: 65 Per Line or 65*per Line? From: Paul Robinson Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA Someone asked me about the charge for message units on phone service: >> different one. Now I am told the original story -- that each >> line has a limit of 65 calls whether or not the lines are >> billed to one party or separately billed -- e.g. if I use 66 >> on one line and 5 on the other, I will be charged for one >> message unit. The phone company clerk tells me that each line >> is individually metered and it doesn't matter whether the >> three lines are attached to one account or billed to three >> different accounts. > This implies that there's a per call charge after your 65th > call. Can you offer a few details on the billing and let me > know who your telco is? There are three 'flavors' of phone service which is provided by C&P Telephone of Maryland. Rates are per month and do not include long distance usage but DO include the $3.50 per line carrier access charge: 1. Unlimited local calls in the service area, which is all of the Washington Metro area which extends from Dulles Airport, VA to Rockville, MD to Prince Georges County, MD to Columbia, MD, encompasing four area codes from Silver Spring. Note that this option is only available to residential customers. This costs about $22 a month with taxes. 2. Metered by time. All calls costs 3.1c for the first minute and 1.3c for each additional minute. Residential customerts have an option of obtaining $5.85 worth of metering for $3. This costs about $11 if you take it with no meter allocation, or $14.50 with the extra $5.85, including taxes, plus any usage if no meter allocation or more than $5.85 is used, respectively. 3. Metered by count. All calls cost 9c regardless of how long you are on the line. Residential customers have an option of obtaining 65 calls for $3. This costs about $11 with no meter allocation, or $14.50 with 65-call count, including taxes, plus any usage if no meter allocation or more than 65 calls are made, respectively. A commercial telephone will pay about $15 a month over these rates, and all calls are billed either at 3.1c a call/1.3c a minute or 9c a call. Except for touch tone, all other services (call forwarding, three-way, call waiting, caller id, etc.) are at an additional charge. I switched my service from 1 to 3 with 65 metered calls. > I'm guessing that you pay a monthly service charge for Caller > ID. But this "per message" charge over the 65th call is news > to me. You only pay for message charges if you choose to take metered service. Caller ID costs $6.50 a month. I'm only keeping it for the duration of the test I'm doing, which means in a month I'll drop it since I will know everything I wanted to know about it. Paul Robinson - TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM ------------------------------ From: de@moscom.com (David Esan) Subject: Re: NPA 905 Not Universally Recognized Date: 18 Nov 93 14:44:46 GMT Organization: Moscom Corporation, Pittsford NY In article g1jmason@cdf.toronto.edu (Jamie Mason) writes: > Now, correct me if I am wrong here, but is it not the case that > NPAs for North America are assigned by Bellcore? Presumably the split > of the old 416 into 416 and 905 was authorized by Bellcore. > I was under the impression that Bellcore publishes, on a regular > basis, its list of NPA assignments ... and I would assume that any LEC > or IXC with enough chutzpah to call themselves a "phone company" would > go to the trouble of reading these lists, and programming their > computers with them. Since I don't get tapes from BellCore any longer I can't speak directly about them, but I can add some experiences. The tapes from BellCore generally parallel the additions to the document FCC #10, in terms of time of addition. Now, the information for NPA 905 just arrived (11/15/93), even though 905 has been implemented for more than a month. Why? I don't know. We got the information for 810 and 910 in October, and the informtion about 610 in November. Both were some time before these codes were implemented. I don't think this is strictly a problem because it is a Canadian area code. We have gotten in information on some splits a years in advance, most about three months in advance, and a few after the fact. David Esan de@moscom.com [Moderator's Note: Obviously instead of relying on Bellcore to get you the information in a timely way, you need to read this Digest for the latest news on area code splits, etc. :) We were talking about 905 long before it occurred. We were even talking about 905 back in the days when it used to be an 'area code' for Mexico. PAT] ------------------------------ From: amdunn@mongrel.uucp (Andrew M. Dunn) Subject: Re: NPA 905 Not Universally Recognized Organization: A. Dunn Systems Corporation, Kitchener, Ontario, Canada Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 15:08:52 GMT In article taranto@panix.com (James Taranto) writes about calling the Toronto Ontario Canada weather info number: > djcl@grin.io.org wrote: > It works from Brooklyn, N.Y., though the recording said it was nine > degrees out. Can that be right? It was in the 70s today in NYC! Yikes! 70 degrees! That's close to the boiling point of water. I'd hate to be outdoors in that kind of heat ... you could fry an egg on your forehead. :-) (Hint ... in Canada we use the metric Celsius system of temperature measurement, not Fahreinheit. 100 degrees C = 212 degrees F, 20 degrees C is a pleasant 68 degrees F, 0 degrees C is 32 F, and 9 degrees C is around 48 degrees F, quite normal for this time of year in southern Ontario). Cheers, Andy Dunn or [Moderator's Note: In the USA, we use the metric system to measure the size of the ammunition for our weapons. :) 9mm bullets are common. Ooops, I said that one yesterday, but it bears repeating I guess. :) PAT] ------------------------------ From: fybush@world.std.com (Scott D Fybush) Subject: Re: NPA 905 Not Universally Recognized Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 04:04:00 GMT Could someone with knowledge of the 416/905 split enlighten me about 416-551? The Niagara Falls Bridge Commission hotline was at 416-551-3409, and I had thought that area was going to 905. Yet from 617-254 Brighton, here's what I get when trying to call 905-551-3409: Via AT&T: Loud rushing noise with occasional clicks and pops. Via MCI and Sprint: "Your call cannot be completed as dialed". Via Westinghouse internal network: Ditto 416-551-3409 connects just fine. It's not that 905 isn't working, I can call Mississauga numbers in 905-820-XXXX just fine via all four carriers. Is there something weird about 416/905-551? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 13:18:36 EST From: Tony Harminc Subject: Re: NPA 905 Not Universally Recognized taranto@panix.com (James Taranto) wrote: >> Digest readers who are interested in testing 905 out could try to get >> Toronto weather information at +1 905 676.3066 to see if 905 will work >> (pre-recorded message). I work in (905) area as well, and could >> provide the work number(s) on request. > It works from Brooklyn, N.Y., though the recording said it was nine > degrees out. Can that be right? It was in the 70s today in NYC! Well it has been a bit chilly here lately -- nine degrees sounds about right. But 70s in NYC !? Let's see -- a hot day in Death Valley would be around 55 degrees. My water heater thermostat is set to 65 degrees. Water boils at 100 -- freezes at 0. Could it be that NYC uses some funky temperature scale not used anywhere else in the civilized world ... ? Tony Harminc (in the heart of 905 country) ------------------------------ From: jlittle@AccessPoint.North.Net (John Little) Subject: Re: NPA 905 Not Universally Recognized Organization: UUNorth's AccessPoint Service Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 19:26:43 GMT When my parents try to call me (905 area code) from Central Florida, using AT&T, they get an error, and have to use 416 to reach me. They live in the 407 area code, and the LEC is Southern Bell, with AT&T as the LD carrier, you would assume that they would get the most recent information. [Moderator's Note: AT&T has nothing to do with the error message your parents are reaching. Southern Bell is picking it off before it even leaves the local phone exchange. All the telcos examine the digits which are given to them for validity and to see if it is a call they should handle (or hand off to a long distance carrier). Southern Bell can't find it in their table, and claim it is an error. To prove this for yourself, have your parents *bypass the local central office* by going direct to AT&T on 800-CALL-ATT or similar, then dialing the 905 number. It'll go through okay. Another proof will come when you have your parents dial through the central office as before, but using a carrier access code such as 10333 for Sprint or 10222 for MCI (or 10288 for AT&T). The same thing will occur: the call will be rejected, and one would think Sprint or MCI did not know about 905 either, but in truth, they are never even seeing the request because Southern Bell is not handing it to them. And when you call the local telephone company and politely suggest they get their act together, the clerk first tries to pass you off to the long distance carrier ('you will have to complain to them') or maybe they ask if you have tried from all the phones in your house and get the same problem from each phone, and that they can have someone come out a week from next Thursday but if the problem is discovered to be on your end, boy are you gonna pay for it. Illinois Bell had a prefix missing from their table for area 414 for the longest time. No amount of talking to them did any good. Finally I reached a reasonably intelligent supervisor at AT&T who passed the message to her co-worker in charge of those things, and he called someone at IBT who corrected it. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 11:32:05 EST From: Carl Moore Subject: Re: NPA 905 Not Universally Recognized I take it that traveler living in Mississauga was a woman? On rare occasions, I do hear the play on words where "Mrs." is heard in the first part of "Mississippi". So whoever said "I asked for residence not name" should have recognized that he/she was right at Mississauga, right? [Moderator's Note: No, what directory should have said next was 'What town does Mrs. Ogga live in?' :) PAT] ------------------------------ From: wa2ise@netcom.com (Robert Casey) Subject: NPA 905, NAFTA and Mexico Area Codes Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 04:32:22 GMT In article dk@crl.com (David A. Kaye) writes: > The problem MAY stem from the fact that 905 was previously one of the > area codes assigned to Mexico a few years ago, before it was decided > that Mexico would be reached only via country code. Until about three > years ago you could reach them both ways. Would NAFTA have any impact on area code assignment? If USA, Canada, and Mexico are gonna be an economic unit, would there be motivation to make phone calling to Mexico similar to the style used to call Canada and USA (outside your local area code)? Well, they probably couldn't give back 905 to Mexico, but make up a new sort of area code for them? [Moderator's Note: I don't think NAFTA will matter. Besides, TelMex has never had the same historic relationship with telcos in the USA and Canada that the telcos in this country have had with each other. I rather suspect Mexico will remain an 'international' point. PAT] ------------------------------ From: smlamont@hebron.connected.com (Steve Lamont) Subject: Re: Check From MCI; What to Do? Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 15:17:04 -0800 Organization: Connected INC -- Internet Services Henry Mensch (hcm@netcom.com) wrote: > For my residential long distance I currently use AT&T ... I got a > check in the mail from MCI last week (not a very big one, as they say; > only $20) which I get to cash if I let them switch me to MCI (and > friends and informants, or whatever it is this week). > Now, I remember reading in this space that some folks were able to > redeem these checks with their current LD carrier without having to > switch carriers ... has anyone done this lately ... with AT&T? If so, > how ...? I heard someone say that if you (1) call your local telephone company (i.e., your LEC) and tell them you don't want your phone slammed (which means you want to freeze any changes to your long distance carrier) and (2) cash the check at the bank, the carrier pays you the money but their change order for their long distance service does not get processed. You could say you get to take the money to the bank! I have never tried this, which is unfortunate because some of my "checks" have been for $75. Steven Lamont smlamont@hebron.connected.com [Moderator's Note: I would suggest that to deliberatly connive and structure things in that way amounts to fraud even though all you are doing is taking advantage of flaws in the system. Anyway, to be 'slammed' means to process the change without your signature. The carrier has your signature on the back of the check you signed, and if your signature is not sufficient to dictate your choice of carrier then I don't know what would be. Actually, if the local telco froze changes on your account on the basis of your phone call alone, in effect you 'slammed' yourself. Slamming by definition means the undocumented change or confirmation of carriers. Your signature is adequate documentation. PAT] ------------------------------ From: catfood@wariat.org (Mark W. Schumann) Subject: Re: Check From MCI; What to Do? Date: 17 Nov 1993 23:27:26 -0500 Organization: Akademia Pana Kleksa, Public Access Uni* Site In article , Henry Mensch wrote: > Now, I remember reading in this space that some folks were able to > redeem these checks with their current LD carrier without having to > switch carriers ... has anyone done this lately ... with AT&T? If so, > how ...? Yes, you have to switch carriers. But read the fine print. You can switch to the new carrier and change right back again the next day if you like; just wait for the check to clear and the paperwork to go through. What's neat about this is if you have AT&T, then cash an MCI check, you will likely get a check from AT&T to come back. If you play your cards right it can be a lot of free money. :-) In answer to the obvious question, yes, I am really a pain in the neck to play Monopoly with also. Mark W. Schumann/3111 Mapledale Avenue/Cleveland, Ohio 44109-2447 USA Preferred: mark@whizbang.wariat.org | Alternative: catfood@wariat.org "Aren't you glad you didn't marry someone dumber than you?" --my wife [Moderator's Note: Regards your signature, it was W.C. Fields who once commented on his choice of girlfriends, 'The dumber they are, the better I like 'em ... :) PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 12:19:41 CDT From: weberdd@clover.macc.wisc.edu Reply-To: weberdd@macc.wisc.edu Subject: Re: Strange T1 Behavior In a previous message, Tom Lowe writes: > I have a client with several T1s from Sprint. A strange thing happens > when I place a 14.4 modem call to one of the channels and a voice call > to an ADJACENT channel (using 800 numbers). A static type of noise > becomes present on the voice call when the far end is talking. It is > especially noticable when listening to ringback or busy signal. If I > disconnect the modem call, the static goes away. > If there is one or more channels between the calls, there is no problem. > The T1 is using D4 and AMI formats. I am not getting any timing slips. > Has anyone experienced such behavior or have any ideas? This could be crosstalk. The data on a 14.4 modem sounds like noise to our human ears. In addition to happening within the T span, the cross-talk can occur at your end (before the calls get in to the span), or at the far end (after the calls get off the span). I assume you have two analog lines at your work location; one for the voice call and one for the modem line. The crosstalk can occur in the cable from your office to the distribution frame, or at the far end from their distribution frame to their work location. The fact that the problem does not occur when there is one or more channels between the calls does not necessarily implicate the T1. It could be that the crosstalk occurs within the last three feet of the cable (in the distribution frame, where the cables are "punched" down on the terminal block). David Devereaux-Weber (608) 262-3584 (voice) MACC Communications; B263 (608) 262-4679 (FAX) 1210 W Dayton St. weberdd@macc.wisc.edu (Internet) Madison, WI 53706 ------------------------------ From: dave@westmark.com (Dave Levenson) Subject: Re: Strange T1 Behavior Organization: Westmark, Inc. Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 02:43:04 GMT In article , tomlowe@netcom.com (Tom Lowe) writes: > I have a client with several T1s from Sprint. A strange thing happens > when I place a 14.4 modem call to one of the channels and a voice call > to an ADJACENT channel (using 800 numbers). A static type of noise > The T1 is using D4 and AMI formats. I am not able to help with a solution to this one, but I am very interested in it, as I have a customer who is about to install a substantial amount of Sprint T-1 service. You don't say how the T-1 line from Sprint is terminated at your client's site. Is there a channel bank? If so, which one? What's on the analog side of it? My instinctive answer would be to look there for the crosstalk. How about your end? Are your analog voice and data circuits leaking? Dave Levenson Internet: dave@westmark.com Westmark, Inc. UUCP: {uunet | rutgers | att}!westmark!dave Stirling, NJ, USA Voice: 908 647 0900 Fax: 908 647 6857 ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #767 ****************************** ****************************************************************************** Downloaded From P-80 International Information Systems 304-744-2253