Message-ID: <cY7al=y00UkZ0U9k4L@andrew.cmu.edu>
Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU
From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU
To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 89 08:59:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: SPACE Digest V9 #293

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 9 : Issue 293

Today's Topics:
	      shuttle observation/satellite mailing list
		       Shuttle Orbital Elements
		       Re: SPACE Digest V9 #284
		 Re: First concert from space--update
		 Re: First concert from space--update
    Re: LANDSAT TO BE SHUT OFF SOON--PLEASE WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN
	    Re: National Space Council (from: What's New )
		   Space station & stone-age units
    Re: LANDSAT TO BE SHUT OFF SOON--PLEASE WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN
    Re: LANDSAT TO BE SHUT OFF SOON--PLEASE WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN
			 Call Dial-A-Shuttle
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 10 Mar 89 22:33:23 GMT
From: snowdog@athena.mit.edu  (Richard the Nerd)
Subject: shuttle observation/satellite mailing list


Hello!

Since there were a few requests, I'll keep everyone up to date on
the shuttle orbit over usenet.  

I run a mailing list type of operation which provides subscribers
(with elementary knowledge of astronomy) with weekly satellite
predictions custom-calculated for their location.  I'd be glad to do
shuttle predicitons this way for any one who wants me to.  Note that
the list is not limited to the shuttle; you can choose any satellites
you want.  In particular, most subscribers view Mir, and they are 
having lots of fun doing it.

If you would like to sign up, you MUST send me the following info.
Remember, send ALL of the below, because I am going to be in a rush
processing the flood of requests and may not have time to look things
up for you and/or write back.

The info needed is:

Your location name,
     latitude, longitude (nearest 0.01 deg), 
     elevation,
     time zone, 
     daylight savings time (I know the rules for the US, so US
	people do not need to mention this.) 
     which satellites you would like to see (I'll assume the shuttle with
	everyone, but if you would like more, say so.)
     email address, esp. if it is tricky.

Now, on to the shuttle.  With the current launch date, March 13th 1307 UTC,
the elements will be:

Epoch: 89072.785417
Incl:  28.5
RAAN:  198.1
Perg:  0
MA  :  0
Eccn:  0
M.M.:  15.863538
Rev.:  5

Rev.:  5

Remember, to see the shuttle well on this mission you need to be SOUTH
OF 40 degrees north, and NORTH of 40 Degrees SOUTH, and preferrably at
most around 30 degrees N.  If you live outside this band, you will NOT
see the shuttle unless you are a VERY experienced observer.  Also, the
Southern Folks will have to wake up EARLY, before dawn, to see it.

I'll keep you all up to date,

Rich N1FMM, fanatic satellite watcher

------------------------------

Date: 13 Mar 89 20:40:35 GMT
From: snowdog@athena.mit.edu  (Richard the Nerd)
Subject: Shuttle Orbital Elements


Hi!

Discovery launched at 14:57 UTC today, as most of you know by now;
here is the element set:

Epoch: 89072.8618056
Inclination: 28.5
RA of Node: 225.7024
Eccentricity: 0 (assumed)
Argument of Perigee: 0 (assumed)
Mean anomaly: 0 
Mean Motion: 15.863538
Epoch Rev: 5

Have fun!

Rich

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Mar 89 15:22:03 -0500
From: kpmancus@bogey.Princeton.EDU (Keith P. Mancus)
To: Dale.Amon@H.GP.CS.CMU.EDU, phoenix!kpmancus@Princeton.EDU
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V9 #284
Cc: space@andrew

	Good question.  It does seem that it should be dissociated
as it passes through, independeently of the tidal forces acting on it.
I have no idea whether there is a critical velocity for it to survive.
There certainly can't be any tension on the cable!

------------------------------

Date: 9 Mar 89 21:06:13 GMT
From: ssc-vax!bcsaic!rwojcik@beaver.cs.washington.edu  (Rick Wojcik)
Subject: Re: First concert from space--update

In article <1989Mar8.181638.1769@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes:

>Why [are space flights] "priceless"?  The Soviets have had no hesitation in
>putting a price on it.  They seem to feel that they have enough flights available that
>they can afford to sell a few.  They're right.

Soviet politicians, like ours, wish to exploit the space program to achieve
short term political goals.  Right now, it tickles their fancy to have the
appearance of routine space flights when our program is in disarray.  They
aren't just selling flights.  They are broadcasting a propaganda message.  How
much profit do you think they make by 'selling' their flights to to
Westerners?  This is not a commercial exercise.  It is a propaganda exercise.
And Soviet science suffers from these kinds of shenanigans.  (The CPSU has a
long history of trashing science in the interest of politics.)

Each space flight is priceless because we can only afford to support a limited
number.  We know so little about space and its effects on humans that we need
every opportunity to expand our knowledge.  We are still in the stage of
trying to find commercial value in space research.  We don't find out anything
by sending entertainers into orbit.  All we do is lose an opportunity to learn
more about a very hostile environment.  I believe that the survival of the
human race is ultimately at stake.  We might survive the damage to our
biosphere and the depletion of our non-renewable resources if we learn how to
colonize space.  Perhaps polluting industries can be moved off-planet.
Perhaps new sources of energy and raw materials can be developed.  There is
always the danger that space flight will be ended permanently because we can
no longer afford the resources to sustain it.  I hope that we can make manned
space flight commercially viable before that happens.  Send the singers up
later--when we really can justify the extravagance.  We are still trying to
bootstrap our space program.

>The Soviets already have a policy to the effect that the price is negotiable
>if the passenger will be doing experiments that are of interest to them, so
>in effect any full-fare passenger is paying a premium for displacing science.

Even Jake Garn did some 'useful' things.  But there is enough work up there so
that it is more cost-effective to let scientists perform the experiments.
They, at least, know what they are doing.

>Agreed that this was reprehensible.  However, it's totally irrelevant to
>what I was saying.  Senators do not get free rides on airlines.

Really?  You've never heard of political junkets?  :-)  What you mean is that
the airlines don't reimburse the government for our perpipathetic pols.  

>>... The space program is not, and never was, a profit-making enterprise.
>>We all wish that it could be, but it is still a research program.  The viable
>>commercial uses of space do not include public transportation and media
>>extravaganzas at this time...
>Speak for your own country, comrade. :-)  Truly spacefaring nations (there
>is currently one on Earth) can afford to use space for many purposes.

You insist that the space program turns a profit?  Do you have an estimate on
how much money it brings into the national treasury?  How much do you think
the Soviets are making?  This is indeed good news.

>Please read the following sentence very carefully.  The USSR is selling
>commercial flights into space, today.  This is a verifiable fact; call them
>up and ask them.

Call up who?  Pravda?  The Soviet Embassy in Washington?  The State Bureau for
Never Lying to the Public?  That's a branch of the KGB.  :-)

>At one time, there were people who were interested in taking it over and
>operating it as a commercial venture.  It's become a bit less attractive
>since, but US government policy has a lot to do with that.  (An airliner
>crash does not shut down an airline for 2-3 years.)

The 2-3 year shutdown took place, in part, because our politicians had turned
the event into a media spectacle.  We've had astronauts die before.  Their
deaths are as tragic as anyone's, but they're paid to take risks.  The point
of putting a civilian teacher up there was to demonstrate the safety and
competence of our space program.  The public really had their attention
focused on that flight.  Do you really think that this is the time to send up
a bunch of entertainers?  Another disaster with them, and you can kiss our
space program goodbye.  The idea of getting people to "take over" our space
program, operating it as a commercial venture, went out the window because it
was impractical.  It was dreamed up by people who thought that the free market
was the answer to everything.  Right now, space is a venture for governments,
not private industries.  We all look forward to the day when that changes, if
it ever gets a chance to change.


-- 
Rick Wojcik   csnet:  rwojcik@atc.boeing.com	   
              uucp:   uw-beaver!ssc-vax!bcsaic!rwojcik

------------------------------

Date: 10 Mar 89 17:27:22 GMT
From: uhccux!lee@humu.nosc.mil  (Greg Lee)
Subject: Re: First concert from space--update

From article <10644@bcsaic.UUCP>, by rwojcik@bcsaic.UUCP (Rick Wojcik):

"...  Send the singers up
"later--when we really can justify the extravagance.  We are still trying to
"bootstrap our space program.

What's 'bootstrapping', Rick?  When you expend resources in such a way
as to gain more resources, right?  The space program will be voted
more money by congress when congressmen think it will make them
popular to do that.  Then the way to bootstrap is to spend on
public relations and promotion so that space begins to sound fun,
because that's what our citizens value.  You're a serious minded
person -- if most voters were like you, that wouldn't be an appropriate
strategy.  But arguing for more funds on the grounds that it will
increase the chance we will have colonies before we make our planet
unlivable, which we surely will sooner or later, is just not
going to work.  I would favor a strategy that works over one that
sounds high-minded.

		Greg, lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu

------------------------------

Date: 8 Mar 89 12:31:51 GMT
From: portal!cup.portal.com!Sirald@uunet.uu.net  (Andrew Lionel Dalrymple)
Subject: Re: LANDSAT TO BE SHUT OFF SOON--PLEASE WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN


Question -- if they are to be shut-off, can they ever be
remotely reactivated?  Seems like such a waste shut them
down when while they still work.  Why not just let them
idle?

Landsat -- is that not what we need more of in the first
place to grab the wheather forcasts?

------------------------------

Date: 10 Mar 89 17:47:06 GMT
From: mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: National Space Council (from: What's New )

In article <435@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes:
> > 2. A NATIONAL SPACE COUNCIL WILL BE ESTABLISHED BY PRESIDENT BUSH
> > to oversee the implementation of his space policy.  In a report
> > to Congress issued Wednesday, he gave the composition of the 10-
> > member council.  It will be headed by the Vice President and will
> > include several cabinet officers, the NASA Administrator, the
> > Director of the CIA, the Director of OMB, the National Security
> > Advisor and the White House Chief of Staff...
>
>... What does the Director of the CIA have to do
>with space? Oh, yea... spy satelites. Looks like they have all the
>spy and defense deptartment bozos on the 'council' and no scientists
>or space experts. This bodes very badly. Must mean that they are taking
>SDI seriously, to the exclusion of anything else...

I think you're over-reacting.  The idea is to get all the government
agencies with major space interests involved, and the scientists and
space experts are all with NASA.  With the exception (mentioned in the
original piece) of the President's Science Advisor, what other high-
level government bureaucrats speak for the constituency you're thinking
of?  Most government civilian space activity goes through NASA; that may
not be a good thing, but it's a fact.

Also, in case you haven't noticed, the military space budget has been
larger than the civilian space budget since well before SDI.

I agree that the proposed NSC lineup does not sound impressive, but for
different reasons:  it incorporates too many high-level bureaucrats who
will be unable to meet frequently, meaning that it will have a hard time
getting anything done.
-- 
Welcome to Mars!  Your         |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
passport and visa, comrade?    | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu

------------------------------

Date: 11 Mar 89 04:26:58 GMT
From: vsi1!v7fs1!mvp@apple.com  (Mike Van Pelt)
Subject: Space station & stone-age units

According to a contact at NASA, the space station as it is currently
planned is going to have a mix of English and Metric parts.  This
means that they have to have two sets of tools, and other such 
nonsense.

According to that contact, this was decided when Dale Myers, a former
high official at Rockwell who is now the Deputy Administrator of NASA,
upon hearing that the space station would use metric parts said
"What?!, METRIC?! - Why that's UN-AMERICAN!", and decreed that
stone-age barleycorn & King George's shoe size measurements shall be
used on the space station.

Does anyone else have any information on this outrage?
-- 
Mike Van Pelt                          Here lies a Technophobe,
Video 7                                   No whimper, no blast.
...ames!vsi1!v7fs1!mvp                 His life's goal accomplished,
                                          Zero risk at last.

------------------------------

Date: 8 Mar 89 22:50:39 GMT
From: portal!atari!apratt@uunet.uu.net  (Allan Pratt)
Subject: Re: LANDSAT TO BE SHUT OFF SOON--PLEASE WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN


Dan Quayle, of all people, seems to have found some money to keep
Landsat going.  It was in the SF Chronicle of Tuesday, March 7, 1989.
He didn't say where he got the money.  (VP Quayle is Chairman of some
national space committee or other; others will know better than I.)

============================================
Opinions expressed above do not necessarily	-- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp.
reflect those of Atari Corp. or anyone else.	  ...ames!atari!apratt

------------------------------

Date: 11 Mar 89 17:23:07 GMT
From: rochester!dietz@rutgers.edu  (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: LANDSAT TO BE SHUT OFF SOON--PLEASE WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN

In article <1376@atari.UUCP> apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes:

>Dan Quayle, of all people, seems to have found some money to keep
>Landsat going.  It was in the SF Chronicle of Tuesday, March 7, 1989.
>He didn't say where he got the money.  (VP Quayle is Chairman of some
>national space committee or other; others will know better than I.)

He got it from various government agencies that use Landsat data.  So
some customers are willing to pay for its operation.

	Paul F. Dietz
	dietz@cs.rochester.edu

------------------------------

Date: 10 Mar 89 22:47:00 GMT
From: arisia!cdp!jordankatz@lll-winken.llnl.gov
Subject: Call Dial-A-Shuttle


CALL DIAL-A-SHUTTLE      1-900-909-NASA

Space Shuttle Discovery is ready once again to take to the skies,
as well as outer space.  The five person astronaut team is
scheduled to ride Discovery into Earth Orbit on Monday, March 13.

The shuttle crew will test hardware that will help America build
Space Station Freedom in the 1990's and deploy a 19 ton
communications relay satellite.  The astronauts will also conduct
a wide range of experiments, from charting environmental hazards
around the globe to growing protein crystals in microgravity that
could lead to cures for certain medical diseases.  As the third
shuttle flight since the loss of Challenger and its crew, the
mission will further qualify space shuttle vehicles for safe and
reliable human transportation into space.

Dial-A-Shuttle based at Johnson Space Center in Houston will be
providing round-the-clock coverage during this exciting five day
mission.  You'll be able to listen to the astronauts talking live
to Mission Control.  When live coverage is not available, you'll
hear our informed reports and news updates, including background
information on the mission from space experts.

ALL ON DIAL-A-SHUTTLE.  1-900-909-NASA. 
(Toll charges apply $2.00 first minute, 45 cents for each
additional minute.)

For more information contact the NATIONAL SPACE SOCIETY:
    Leonard David,  (202) 543-3991
    Charles Miller, (202) 543-1900

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V9 #293
*******************