Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from holmes.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr1/ota/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr1/ota/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Fri, 31 Mar 89 00:18:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8YAkcCy00UkZ0=bk5A@andrew.cmu.edu> Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Fri, 31 Mar 89 00:18:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: SPACE Digest V9 #325 SPACE Digest Volume 9 : Issue 325 Today's Topics: Re: Success with cold fusion reported Re: Tilenius paper Re: Using the Shuttle for higher orbits Financing arranged for ammonium perchlorate plant (Forwarded) Human Immune System Fusion news implications space vs. immune system (was Room Temperature fusion) Space salvage, and the Paradox of Firsts Fusion Spacecraft? Pickle-jar fusion spurs palladium prices ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Mar 89 16:30:54 GMT From: cs.utexas.edu!siddarth@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Siddarth Subramanian) Subject: Re: Success with cold fusion reported In article <1989Mar28.041030.2291@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu> kocic@gpu.utcs.UUCP (Miroslav Kocic) writes: > >The discussion in this newsgroup has so far been about the authenticity of the >Utah breakthrough, but I have two different concerns. First, what if fusion >turns out to create problems we don't foresee? We didn't foresee radioactive >waste or meltdowns back when fission was at this stage, and, if history teaches >anything, it teaches that every benefit has a proportional price. Second, what >if cold fusion becomes the crack-cocaine of energy production? I can imagine >a thousand fanatics in 750 terrorist cells making an H-bomb in their kitchen. Wow. Some people really love to pour cold water on things before they even get off the ground. Here we're discussing a method that has not even been well documented yet. We don't know if it's economically feasible or even theoretically sound. To go from here to H-bombs in one step does take a lot of imagination. While I agree with the need for caution in looking at any new process or technique, I believe that something as important as room-temperature fusion should first be studied for its merits as an energy source. As for H-bombs, note that many do-it-yourself guides have been written for producing fission bombs already. Fortunately for mankind, few people combine both genocidal instincts and the intelligence required to make such a bomb. Even the worst terrorist groups have not resorted to bomb production. There's no reason to think they're going to now. ------- SIDDARTH SUBRAMANIAN siddarth@cs.utexas.edu "$#$#^&^*())*&&^hghg@44*&^##[][]" - R2D2 ------------------------------ Date: 28 Mar 89 23:39:49 GMT From: thorin!zeta!leech@mcnc.org (Jonathan Leech) Subject: Re: Tilenius paper In article <607110561.amon@H.GP.CS.CMU.EDU> Dale.Amon@H.GP.CS.CMU.EDU writes: > Economics on the Space Frontier: Can We Afford It > Gordon Woodcock > (try asking through the NSS office if they can get copies of > it. My copy is a prepublication draft Gordon gave me and I > don't remember where it was eventually published) _SSI Update_, May/June 1987. Back issues may be available directly from SSI (PO Box 82, Princeton, NJ 08540). The intro also mentions that this paper was presented at the AAAS (presumably, also in 1987). -- Jon Leech (leech@cs.unc.edu) __@/ ``Thus Mathematics helps / our brains and hands and feet and can make / a race of supermen out of us.'' - The Education of T. C. Mits ------------------------------ Date: 25 Mar 89 00:04:52 GMT From: attcan!lsuc!ncrcan!ziebmef!mdf@uunet.uu.net (Matthew Francey) Subject: Re: Using the Shuttle for higher orbits K_MACART@UNHH.BITNET writes: > Think of all the LEM type > vehicles a fully loaded shuttle could hold in lunar orbit. Think of how many more it could hold if the wings and other aerodynamic stuff was removed. Well, it couldn't hold *more* of them, but it would be able to get them there more efficiently. The shuttle IS a "shuttle". It goes up, and it comes down. For tasks like going to the Moon, a new vehicle is in order. -- Name: Matthew Francey Address: N43o34'13.5" W79o34'33.3" 86m mdf@ziebmef.UUCP uunet!utgpu!{ontmoh!moore,ncrcan}!ziebmef!mdf ------------------------------ Date: 28 Mar 89 20:50:19 GMT From: trident.arc.nasa.gov!yee@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Peter E. Yee) Subject: Financing arranged for ammonium perchlorate plant (Forwarded) Sarah Keegan Headquarters, Washington, D.C. March 28, 1989 RELEASE: 89-40 FINANCING ARRANGED FOR AMMONIUM PERCHLORATE PLANT Western Electrochemical Company, Cedar City, Utah, has finalized arrangements for private financing through Security Pacific Bank Washington, Seattle, for construction of an ammonium perchlorate (AP) production plant to be located in Cedar City. Western Electrochemical Company is a subsidiary of Pacific Engineering and Production Company (PEPCON) and an AP subcontractor to Morton Thiokol Inc., manufacturer of the Space Shuttle solid rocket motor. Construction of the Cedar City plant is underway and production is expected to begin in the summer of 1989. Western Electrochemical plans to repay the privately financed capital investment in the new plant within 7 years. AP is an oxidizing chemical used in virtually all solid propellant rocket motors, including the Space Shuttle's solid rocket motor. NASA and the Department of Defense have agreed to combined purchases of 20 million pounds a year of AP for 7 years from Western Electrochemical Company. ------------------------------ Date: 29 Mar 89 03:35:01 GMT From: pdn!rnms1!alan@uunet.uu.net (0000-Alan Lovejoy(0000)) Subject: Human Immune System In article <13468@steinmetz.ge.com> davidsen@crdos1.UUCP (bill davidsen) writes: >In article <5849@pdn.nm.paradyne.com> alan@rnms1.UUCP (0000-Alan Lovejoy) writes: > >| Then we also need either very advanced AI, very advanced biotechnology, >| or artificial gravity: It appears that low gravity fields shut down the >| human immune system in a way similar to the AIDS virus. Humans will NOT >| be spending any appreciable percentage of their lives in space until we >| can fix our immune systems so that they tolerate low gravity, or until >| we can provide gravity artificially. As things stand, a career as an >| asteroid miner would not last long... > > What are the parameters on this? I know the Russians had people in >orbit for almost a year (didn't they?) and didn't seem to have problems. >They were visited by other cosmonauts during the time so they weren't in >a sterile atmosphere. Since several people have asked, here is a bibliography on this issue: References: Effects of Hypogravity on the Human Immune System 1. "Microorganisms in the Space Environment," Horneck et al., Science, July 1984, pg. 226 2. "Humoral Immunity at Zero G," Voss et al., Science, July 1984, pg. 214 3. "Effect of Hypogravity on Human Lymphocyte Activation," Aviation, Space and Environmental Medicine, Jan., 1980, pg. 30 4. "Effects of Simulated Weightlessness on IFN Production," Sommerfield et al., Journal Of IF Research, 1982, pg. 462 5. "Influence of Spaceflight on RBC," Talbot et al., FASEB Proceedings, Aug 1985, vol. 45 No. 9 6. "Results Of Space Experiment Program Interferon," Talas et al., Acta Microbiologia Hungarica, 1983, vol. 30 7. "The Immune System and Effect of Hyper- and Hypogravity," Caren et al., Aviation, Space and Environmental Medicine, Nov. 1984, pg. 1063 8. "The Effect of Space Flight on Immunocompetence," Cogoli et al., Immunology Today, 1985, vol. No. 6, pg. 1 9. "The Effects of Space Flight on Immunocompetence," Immunology Today, Vol. 8, No. 7, 1987, pg 197 10. Biomedical Research Program, NASA ================================= Chief, Space Medicine Branch/EB Life Sciences Division NASA Headquarters, Washington D.C. 20546 USA I am not a biologist or medical doctor, so please don't ask me for any professional opinions on this stuff! Hope this helps. Alan Lovejoy; alan@pdn; 813-530-2211; AT&T Paradyne: 8550 Ulmerton, Largo, FL. Disclaimer: I do not speak for AT&T Paradyne. They do not speak for me. __American Investment Deficiency Syndrome => No resistance to foreign invasion. Motto: If nanomachines will be able to reconstruct you, YOU AREN'T DEAD YET. ------------------------------ Date: 29 Mar 89 04:52:48 GMT From: kr0u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kevin William Ryan) Subject: Fusion news implications Looking at the traffic concerning the announcements of possible room temp fusion, I noticed a couple of common threads which I thought could use some comment. 1) FUSION ENGINES I suspect that we may _never_ get a fusion torch with this method. Room temp fusion (henceforth RTF) requires that the fusion take place in a palladium matrix. High power densities would, first, melt the palladium electrode, not to mention boil the surrounding water, and second, would still be IN the palladium - not spitting reation mass out the back. I see RTF as a great power source, which could drive more conventional electric or thermal engines. High efficiency rockets require high velocity exhaust - RTF implies low temperatures and hence slow moving particles. The only thing that might be moving fast is the neutron flux, which is non-directional and highly unpleasant. 2) CHEAP NUKES!! This requires comment from the particle physics folks out there. Are the neutrons emitted from RTF sufficient to create fussionable materials? Please post some knowledge for us poor untutored ones who know not the nuclear cross section of common elements. 3) UNLIMITED CHEAP POWER The age-old promise of nuclear fission, and the holy grail of fusion. This one sounds good, folks, that's for certain. Possible show inhibitors (but not stoppers) are: neutron flux; lower than expected according to first reports, but still there, tritium as waste; tritium falls into that unpleasant class of isotopes with a half-life (12 years) long enough to be tough to contain and short enough to cause damage - show me an isotope with a 500K year half-life, and I'll build a bed out of it :-), and finally the apparent need for D-D reactions. Deuterium is not too hard to get, but neither is it exactly common. It will cost something to produce it on large scale basis. First reports on RTF claim that the process will be easily scaled to produce power, which I tend to believe based on what I've heard so far. If everything works out as stated I can see large pressurised deuterium-enriched vessels heating the first stage of steam turbine power plants, essentially replacing the core of a nuclear reactor with a rather cleaner and much cheaper heat source. All in all, I'm tickled pink by the news. Hope it all works out. With our experience in fission plants, perhaps our grain of salt is big enough to prevent some of the difficulties we've had with those. kwr "Jest so ya know..." P.S. Anyone out there have decent information on RTF being possible with D-H reactions vs. D-D reactions? ------------------------------ Date: 29 Mar 89 22:51:43 GMT From: mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Henry Spencer) Subject: space vs. immune system (was Room Temperature fusion) >References: Effects of Hypogravity on the Human Immune System Note that of the ten references, all but #9 and #10 (which is an address rather than a publication) are badly dated, since most of the really long-flight space experience has been accumulated in the last few years. -- Welcome to Mars! Your | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology passport and visa, comrade? | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 89 17:44 CST From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey Subject: Space salvage, and the Paradox of Firsts Original_To: SPACE Peter Yee (trident.arc.nasa.gov!yee@ames.arc.nasa.gov) posted a NASA press release by Sarah Keegan and Jeffrey Carr about Capt. Frederick Hauck, USN. "In November 1984, Hauck was STS-51A mission commander, the first space salvage mission in history. Hauck and crew retrieved and returned to Earth the Palapa B-2 and Westar VI communications satellites after deploying Anik D-2 and LEASAT-1 satellites." Apollo 12 landed on the Moon near the old Surveyor 3 spacecraft, and Bean and Shepard removed a few parts for study on Earth. Doesn't this count as "the first space salvage mission?" I think if you try to deny it, you'll find yourself getting real fussy about the definition of "salvage." I'm a little disturbed that the people writing NASA's press releases still emphasize "firsts" so often, despite all the criticism lobbed at such practices over the years. The 14 March release (by Charles Redmond and James Hartsfield) Peter posted in Space Digest v9 n301 was even worse: "DISCOVERY'S RETURN-TO-FLIGHT PHOTOGRAPHS RECORD MANY FIRSTS...For the first time in Shuttle history, Africa's Niger river was photographed in full flood and out of its banks...for the first time, an aircraft was photographed generating a contrail..." There's a basic dichotomy that Space Cadets suffer. Space flights should be Special Events, and we should drop everything else and watch them, and soak up every detail we can find, because we want to share in the great adventure. (Remember getting a TV in your classroom to watch Mercury and Gemini launches?) But space flights should be Routine Events, a part of everyday life, a casually accepted reminder that our race can get people and hardware into orbit any time it really wants to. We love to hear about every detail of this stuff, but we also want our world to become a "spacefaring civilization," and in a spacefaring civlization one more launch or one more landing would be no big deal. Our press seems to have come down mostly on the side of No Big Deal, leaving us space freaks to scramble for information wherever we can get it. Reporters don't cover every moment of a transatlantic marine voyage. And if you hung out at the airport, interviewing pilots, crew, and mechanics about this afternoon's upcoming flight to Podunk, and asking them their opinion about the future of aviation (sometimes known as "the U.S. manned air program")-- well, you'd be considered dotty at best. See the paradox? I suppose we should be grateful for NASA Select, and sci.space, and the few magazines that do cater to the likes of us. And to those NASA publicists tirelessly searching for new "firsts." ______meson Bill Higgins _-~ ____________-~______neutrino Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory - - ~-_ / \ ~----- proton Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNALB.BITNET | | \ / NEW! IMPROVED! SPAN/Hepnet/Physnet: 43011::HIGGINS - - Now comes with Free ~ Nobel Prizewinner Inside! Internet: HIGGINS%FNAL.BITNET@UICVM.uic.edu ------------------------------ Date: 28 Mar 89 17:57:50 GMT From: att!mcdchg!ddsw1!corpane!sparks@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (John Sparks) Subject: Fusion Spacecraft? If this cold fusion process is for real, I was wondering what it would mean for space craft? Is there anyway to convert such power into a motive force for a space craft? Basically, you get heat out from the reaction, correct? But you have to keep the heat low enough not to melt the electrodes. How could this be converted into a 'rocket'? Using the 'old' method of thermonuclear fusion, you would have a far more intense reaction that you could use for propulsion, if you could find a way to contain the reaction. But with this new version of fusion (if it is for real and efficient enough to be practical), you don't need sophisticated containments such as magnetic bottles, just enough shielding from the radiation. But the reaction basically generates heat, so the question is how do you convert that [relatively small] heat energy into propulsion for a space craft? Could this revolutionalize the space industry? -- John Sparks | {rutgers|uunet}!ukma!corpane!sparks | D.I.S.K. 24hrs 1200bps ______________| sparks@corpane.UUCP | 502/968-5401 thru -5406 If a town has one lawyer, he starves; if it has two lawyers, they both get rich ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 89 14:47 CST From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey Subject: Pickle-jar fusion spurs palladium prices Original_To: SPACE art@cs.ucla.edu (Arthur P. Goldberg) wrote: "The closing quotes Thursday March 23 on the commodities exchange were platinum $546/troy oz and palladium $146/troy oz." On Monday, March palladium went up to $150.35, a gain of about 3%... but it only gained about thirty cents in Tuesday's market. Caveat: This is the first time I ever looked up palladium commodities, so there may be error in my reading of the listings. Particle beams, I understand, but commodities... (-: ______meson Bill Higgins _-~ ____________-~______neutrino Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory - - ~-_ / \ ~----- proton Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNALB.BITNET | | \ / NEW! IMPROVED! SPAN/Hepnet/Physnet: 43011::HIGGINS - - Now comes with Free ~ Nobel Prizewinner Inside! Internet: HIGGINS%FNAL.BITNET@UICVM.uic.edu ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V9 #325 *******************