Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from corsica.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr1/ota/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr1/ota/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Mon, 12 Jun 89 05:16:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Mon, 12 Jun 89 05:15:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPACE Digest V9 #483 SPACE Digest Volume 9 : Issue 483 Today's Topics: Re: Space Station computer system Re: Space Station computer system Correction on phone tree alert Re: NSS Space Hotline Update Re: Venus & the Greenhouse effect.. Saturn 5 Booster Re: Kremlin reveals space budget Missing mail Reminders for Old Farts Re: Amazon Forest Destruction Re: Management of Scientific Data Re: Space Station computer system Re: Getting news about China from space ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 8 Jun 89 17:00:39 GMT From: xanth!paterra@g.ms.uky.edu (Frank C. Paterra) Subject: Re: Space Station computer system I don't know if this made it, so sorry if this is a repost. In article , rg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rick Francis Golembiewski) writes: > > > highlights: they're talking about thirty to forty IBM PS/2 model 80's > > pointing devices, with 4 megabytes of RAM and running X-Windows, > > networked with Fiber Distributed Data Interface and perhaps IEEE 802 > > That's pretty much outdated NOW, I don't see how they can hope to have > enough computing power, unless they are going to use the model 80's as > terminals... Also the model 80 is a BAD choice even for what is > available NOW, even the modle 70 is a lot faster then the 80... And > Why have 30-40 of them? Are there going to be THAT many people that > need them? I didn't think that the station was supposed to have a > crew of 40... EEEK This sounds really frightening MS-DOS in space, > now I KNOW that the space program is in trouble... > > The poop as I know it - The computer workstations on the space station, known as Multipurpose Application Consoles or MPACs are based intel 80386 processors running at 25 mhz. The basic MPAC will consist of a Standard Data Processor (SDP) which contains the data buss and a Network Interface Unit (NIU). The NIU allows the workstation to use the fiber-optic based space station LAN. Each SDP will contain at least one Embedded Data Processor (EDP) (the 80386 computer). The EDPs come one meg and four meg models. In addition the SDP can contain some number of I/O driver cards to handle the user I/O. The I/O devices will include video (in and out), keyboards, trac-balls, audio (in and out), and what ever else is needed to support a particular mission. The Operating system that will be used is a derivative of Unix, and there will be rack mounted workstations as well as portable ones. The portable workstations have to be plugged in to the Data Management System (DMS) via one of the many ports available in both the lab and the habitation modules before they can be used. IBM is developing the workstations and the current mockup models are PS/2 model 80s, cleverly hidden behind rack mockups. The real workstations, however, will not be model 80s. Currently there are no plans to use the 80486 or any other processor. I'm currently working on a commonality study and have researched the available information so I pretty sure this is correct. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Frank Paterra The above is my own opinion and nobody paterra@cs.odu.edu agrees with or condones what I said. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 89 09:45:31 BST From: ZZASSGL%cms.manchester-computing-centre.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK Myname: Geoff. Lane. (Phone UK-061 275 6051) Subject: Re: Space Station computer system The recent description of the space station presented here sounded an awful lot like a piece of "Gold Plating". Why could not an existing computer available off the shelf be used? Why is a new version of Unix required? ------------------------------ Reply-To: mordor!rutgers!pnet01.cts.com!jim@angband.s1.gov Date: Tue, 6 Jun 89 09:04:04 PDT From: mordor!rutgers!pnet01.cts.com!jim@angband.s1.gov (Jim Bowery) To: hplabs!hp-sde!hp-sdd!crash!space@angband.s1.gov Subject: Correction on phone tree alert In a prior phone tree alert to lobby for termination of further funding for NASA's space station, I inadvertently left the name of a National Space Society representative at the end of the message. Obviously, the National SS does not share my desire to see funding for NASA's space station terminated and does not endorse, in any way, this phone tree alert. Further news on our efforts to terminate funding to NASA's space station program: Lobbyists for aerospace establishment companies are beginning to retrench in preparation for the program's termination. The latest issue of "Ad Astra" magazine (the National SS organ) has articles on the growing difficulties in budgetary fights for NASA's space station program. It's too bad that Sandra Adamson fought efforts to have the National SS support the Commercially Developed Space Facility (CDSF) when this option was presented to her as a key member of the National SS Legislative Committee in control of National SS phone tree activiations "because it would threaten space station funding" (quote from 1988 Denver Space Development Conference). I guess Sandra, as a beltway consultant working on the Space Station program, was more concerned about maintaining funding to herself than timely access to affordable on-orbit facilities for the nation. At $600 million fixed price within a few years, as opposed to $30 to $60 billion within a decade for the Space Station, CDSF is STILL an important option that must be considered seriously. Maybe the National SS will stop catering to the members of its Board who received income from Space Station and start acting in the best interests of a rational space policy once Space Station is cancelled (but don't hold your breath). --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Bowery Phone: 619/295-8868 PO Box 1981 Join the Mark Hopkins Society! La Jolla, CA 92038 (A member of the Mark Hopkins family of organizations.) UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!jim ARPA: crash!pnet01!jim@nosc.mil INET: jim@pnet01.cts.com ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jun 89 17:10:42 GMT From: philmtl!philabs!linus!munck@uunet.uu.net (Robert Munck) Subject: Re: NSS Space Hotline Update >Vice President Dan Quayle, Chairman of the National Space >Council, reportedly stated... >...that the US will eventually win control of space ... ALL of it? >Quayle reportedly said that the space race is not over, that we >will "win" due to our superior technology ... (Quotes in original.) Those in the upper levels of government really believe that our technology is superior to everybody else, probably because they spend a lot of time telling each other how wonderful it is. Somehow the almost daily failures of technology don't penetrate this rosy haze. ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jun 89 16:21:16 GMT From: mcvax!ukc!etive!bob@uunet.uu.net (Bob Gray) Subject: Re: Venus & the Greenhouse effect.. In article <1989Jun3.220951.4252@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: >As I recall, from papers in JBIS and other places, the notion is not quite >impossible but it is difficult. Getting rid of all that atmosphere is hard. >There are other problems in making Venus habitable too, like a grave shortage >of water and an excessively long rotation period. One of the JBIS papers (Sorry, I've lost the exact reference) considered these last two points the easier part of the problem to solve. They suggested using a ten megaton nuclear device to alter the orbit of a particular asteroid to impact on Venus in the right way to produce suitable length of day. They also suggested an alternative method using a series of suitably aimed comets instead. This would add Hydrogen to the system and eventually create seas for suitable creatures to live in as they consume the disolved CO2. They also pointed out that one of the moons of Saturn seems to be mostly water, and hitting Venus with it would solve both problems at once. They considered the major problem to be simply the rate at which the planet could be cooled. There is a LOT of heat contained in that atmosphere and top few miles of rock. They estimated the entire project to take up to take a few thousand years. So don't buy any real estate there yet. Bob. ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jun 89 20:00:07 GMT From: asuvax!hrc!gtephx!stymar@noao.edu (Robert E. Styma) Subject: Saturn 5 Booster I have heard that we no longer have the plans to build a Saturn 5 booster. There is one laying on it's side at the Johnson Space center. I this just a mock up or could it be reverse engineered from this model? ------------------------------ Date: 9 Jun 89 14:18:59 GMT From: rochester!dietz@rutgers.edu (Paul Dietz) Subject: Re: Kremlin reveals space budget Last year, I posted a note about how the USSR's severe economic problems makes the future of their space program uncertain. The response on this newgroup was, not surprisingly, mostly negative. Panders of red-scare warnings might want to read this: Excerpts rom the NY Times, 6/9/89, page A6. Dateline 8/8/89 Moscow: "Radical Plan to Balance Soviet Budget" Warning that the Soviet Union faces economic collapse within the next few years, a prominent economist proposed an unorthodox plan today for balancing the budget, including cutting aid to Cuba and Nicaragua, selling land to farmers and slashing imports of American grain. The economist, Nikolai P. Shmelyov, addressing a televised session of the Congress of People Deputies, said his proposals stood little chance of being approved, but without them the country could plummet into anarchy or dictatorship. ... ... the government hoped to balance the budget by the mid-1990's through steep cuts in military spending and industrial subsidies, along with increased producitivity. But Mr. Shmelyov said without what he called draconian measures, "we might well have an economic crash within two or three years." [ The article continues on, describing his plans for saving $6-8 billion/year by cutting off Cuba and Nicaragua, a plan to give farmers $75/ton in hard currency for increased grain production rather than buying American grain for $200/ton, selling farmland (!!) to reduce the internal deficit, slashing farm subsidies, raising liquor production to recapture taxes lost to bootleggers, and halting all large-scale development projects for ten years. ] ------ If Soviet economists think the USSR is this close to the brink, and if they are seriously proposing stopping all large scale *earth-bound* development projects for a decade, it is unreasonable to expect them to do much in space. So much for the Great Red Hope, space fans. I'd not be surprised if they suspend their manned space program for a long time, perhaps with an increased effort to export launch services. Paul F. Dietz dietz@cs.rochester.edu ------------------------------ X-Delivery-Notice: SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender. Date: Fri, 9 Jun 89 10:18 EDT From: "Today, All Americans are Chineese." Subject: Missing mail Just a note to the many people who wrote me in response to my message that I wasn't receiving SPACE-L messages... I just received the latest 3 digests, and so it appears that it's working again. Thanks agian. Damian Hammontree ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 89 04:00:13 PDT From: Eugene Miya Subject: Reminders for Old Farts Hints for old users (subtle reminders) You'll know these. Minimize cross references, [Do you REALLY NEED to?] Edit "Subject:" lines especially if you are taking a tangent. Send mail instead, avoid posting follow ups. [100 mail messages mean more than 1 follow-up.] Read all available articles before posting a follow-up. [Check all references.] Cut down attributed articles. Summarize! Put a return address in the body (signature) of your message (mail or article), state institution, etc. don't assume mail works. Use absolute dates. Post in a timely way. Don't post what everyone will get on TV anyway. Some editors and window systems do character count line wrapping: please keep lines under 80 characters for those using ASCII terms (use ). ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jun 89 17:54:34 GMT From: ginosko!infinet!ulowell!tegra!vail@uunet.uu.net (Johnathan Vail) Subject: Re: Amazon Forest Destruction In article <386@v7fs1.UUCP> mvp@v7fs1.UUCP (Mike Van Pelt) writes: In article <1331@ncrcce.StPaul.NCR.COM> johnson@ncrcce.StPaul.NCR.COM (Wayne D. T. Johnson) writes: >Article in the local news last night: >ozone was being destroyed by electrons coming from the magnetosphere >this causing 14% of the ozone loss since 1975... Now I read this as %14 of the loss.... Does that mean that the other %86 is from fluorocarbons? Or is this mis-worded? I suspected from the beginning that the so-called 'ozone hole' was just part of a natural cycle that we would have been seeing all along if we had had satellites for decades. It makes no sense whatsoever that a fluorocarbon-induced hole would first appear over the south pole. It makes no sense until you understand it. Maybe to someone who does it makes perfect sense. I have always suspected that it has something to do with penguins.... "I remember when the sea was full of fish with mysterious names: Mudrake, Cornsweat, Yasmuda, and there wasn't much to do in a day." _____ | | Johnathan Vail | tegra!N1DXG@ulowell.edu |Tegra| (508) 663-7435 | N1DXG@145.110-,145.270-,444.2+,448.625- ----- ------------------------------ Date: 9 Jun 89 23:29:59 GMT From: bionet!kristoff@apple.com (David Kristofferson) Subject: Re: Management of Scientific Data You might be interested in looking at the newsgroup bionet.molbio.bio-matrix. Your topic of interest is the subject of this group as it applies to biology. -- Sincerely, Dave Kristofferson BIONET Resource Manager kristoff@net.bio.net or kristofferson@bionet-20.bio.net ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 89 00:13:41 EDT From: Colin Hunter To: Subject: Re: Space Station computer system From: J. Colin R. Hunter In SPACE Digest Volume 9:Issue477, xanth!paterra@g.ms.uky.edu (Frank C. Paterra) writes: > The computer workstations on the space station, known as Multipurpose > Application Consoles or MPACs are based intel 80386 processors > running at 25 mhz. The basic MPAC will consist of a Standard Data ^^^ 25 _milli_ hertz!!! I always thought that IBMs were slow, but I never realised that they were *that* slow. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1989 16:41-EDT From: Dale.Amon@H.GP.CS.CMU.EDU Subject: Re: Getting news about China from space > accident when it first broke. I doubt that such a satellite could detect > individual tanks but perhaps it could detect masses of them. Maybe it could > detect them deployed by bridges, intersections and the like. Any comments? This is why we need a mediasat (preferably non-american to put it outside of the control of the DOD). Then we could let the whole world see what is happening when a government turns on its own people like the Chinese government has done. We used to chant "The whole world's watching...." here when the police beat people up in the streets during the anti-Vietnam years.* It's time we had a satellite system to make it a true statement for all inhabitants of planet Earth. Let no government hide it's violent nature from world opinion. * Incidentally, they still do on occasion. A Pittsburgh Pig was filmed slugging a handcuffed kid in the face at a Grateful Dead concert here a few months ago. The pig got off without even a reprimand. Nonetheless, the camera does hold them back from real excesses. Usually. ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V9 #483 *******************