Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from beak.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr1/ota/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr1/ota/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Thu, 5 Oct 89 03:31:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Thu, 5 Oct 89 03:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPACE Digest V10 #110 SPACE Digest Volume 10 : Issue 110 Today's Topics: Dan Quayle, news media, toxicity Earth microorganisms on Jupiter. Re: Toxic materials on the Shuttle Re: Radioactivity vs Chemical toxins (Was Toxic materials on shuttle) Re: More linguistic tidbits Re: YAHSS (Yet Another Henry Spencer Signature) Re: Flame On!!! Re: X-30, Space Station Strangles NASP NASA Prediction Bulletin Format Earth microorganisms on Jupiter. Earth microorganisms on Jupiter. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Sep 89 13:35:07 EDT From: Kenneth Ng Subject: Dan Quayle, news media, toxicity :Date: 20 Sep 89 20:36:23 GMT :From: hercules!joyce!apptek11!alan@apple.com (Alan Algustyniak) :Subject: Re: Edgar Rice Quayle on Mars. : :In article <229@kesmai.COM> kff@kesmai.COM (Kelton Flinn) writes: (edited out Dan Quayle's comments on Mars having an atmosphere) :I saw it too, and had the same reaction. I remember, tho, that the narrator :said: : "Most scientists believe that Mars doesn't *have* an atmosphere!" : --CNN News narrator trying to stick it to D. Quale (edited out another CNN goof) : "learn how the planets affect the weather." : : --CNN Newsreader explaining science to his listeners :I called CNN about the pieces. I could feel the blank stare the woman :the listening must have had on her face. W.r.t. the last piece, I tried :to get thru to her by emphasizing "Only an *astrologer* would say that :planets affect the weather." Her reply? : "No, you mean *astronomer* !" : :It's hard to get anywhere when the inmates are running the asylum. : Alan After trying many times, I am thoroughly convinced that for the most part news organizations are more interested in selling papers than the truth. Granted this does not pertain much to Space, so I'll keep it short. Several years ago an exclusive report by ABC Channel 7 in NYC said that the dangerous radon buildup in Montclair New Jersey was due to illegally dumped nuclear waste buried underground. After calling ABC for close to two hours, I got an editor (forgot his name) that said "We have confirmed the story with numerous sources". The real source of the radon was that it occurs naturally in certain rocks. The New York Times Science Times quotes the Cold Fusion people as saying that they know fusion is occuring because they detect tritium and tritium does not exist in nature. Last time I checked it does exist. The editors never answered my letter explaining the correction. The President's Commission on the Accident at Three Mile Island had a lot of recommendations for power plant design, government, industry, etc., and the news media report most of that. What the news media did not report, however, was the section on the news media hiring some real exports on nuclear energy and doing some more factual reporting. Then there is plutonium, so called deadliest substance known to man kind (well, this is a bit related to space). I've heard this title attributed to plutonium, dioxin, botulism(sp), and some of my cooking :-). Does anyone have or know of a list that has the most deadly substances known sorted by amount and intake method? (ie ingestion, inhalation, etc). Obviously they all can't be the most deadly substance, I think. Kenneth Ng - TEIES Project. NJIT - CCCC Newark New Jersey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 89 12:04 CST From: "I did not commit any crime." Subject: Earth microorganisms on Jupiter. I feel that thinking that Earth micro-organisms are somehow "hardier" than Jupiter's (if existant) is a very egotistical thought. As far as I can recall, all of the instances on Earth where "imported" micro-organisms "took over" (say Hawaii, for instance), the place they were imported to was a very small, fairly stable ecosystem, and the imports were from large, diverse systems. It could be argued that the Jupiterian environment is larger, and more diverse to boot :-) (Thought: this is similar to the expectation by most Americans that wherever they go, they'll be able to speak English, and be understood. Unfortunately, it seems to work :-) Scott ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 89 03:01:49 GMT From: gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Henry Spencer) Subject: Re: Toxic materials on the Shuttle In article <228@xpiinc.UU.NET> ctr@xpiinc.uu.net (Christian Reimer) writes: > The point you are missing is that while the shuttle's beryllium will only >become a health hazard if it is vaporized/powdered and dispersed (so that it >can get *inside* an organism), plutonium can and will pose a threat to public >health even if it is dispersed in large chunks... Please cite numbers for this, remembering that Pu-238 is an alpha emitter which produces very little penetrating radioactivity. In any case, even with the much nastier Pu-239, the stuff is just not all that dangerous unless it is finely divided and dispersed. Nobody is worrying about having to sweep up a few dangerous lumps; it's the remote prospect of finely-divided dust dispersing on the wind that bothers them. There are plenty of things on the shuttle that are dangerous in lumps, starting with tons of hydrazine (that stuff is *vile*, being toxic and carcinogenic in addition to flammable, volatile, corrosive, and explosive; its main saving grace is that once it vaporizes and the cloud disperses, it's gone). Plutonium's radioactivity is an *advantage* if you're talking about large chunks, because it makes it very easy to find. -- "Where is D.D. Harriman now, | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology when we really *need* him?" | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 89 06:07:02 GMT From: well!pokey@apple.com (Jef Poskanzer) Subject: Re: Radioactivity vs Chemical toxins (Was Toxic materials on shuttle) In the referenced message, rg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rick Francis Golembiewski) wrote: }Also radition is dangerous in that it can't be easily detected I'd say a $2.00 film badge qualifies as "easy". And for localizing hazards, you can get nice portable counters for a couple of hundred bucks. What are the equivalent cheap and general detector for chemical toxins? I'll give you a hint: there aren't any. Now, GET THIS SHIT OUT OF SCI.SPACE! --- Jef Jef Poskanzer pokey@well.sf.ca.us {ucbvax, apple, hplabs}!well!pokey "Every time Europe looks across the Atlantic to see the Americans, it observes only the rear end of an ostrich." -- H. G. Wells ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 89 01:50:04 GMT From: asuvax!motpe!mikec@handies.ucar.edu (Michael Collins) Subject: Re: More linguistic tidbits In article <890927.11393894.034600@RMC.CP6> JC@RMC.BITNET writes: > > So far I have seen Venerean, Venereal and even Cytherean, but what ever >happened to Venusian? > >John Coughlin Net: JC@RMC.BITNET Vox: 613-541-6439 Fax: 613-547-3053 Asimov did an essay about this quite a number of years ago in "Fantasy and Science Fiction". It was reprinted in one of the Discus Books anthologies. Don't rememeber the name of the article or the anthology (though it's in my collection at home if anyone is REAL worried about this sort of thing). His conclusion -- Venerean is the correct term. Venusian is definitely wrong (and, of course, most commonly used), though I don't recall the specifics. I'll take Isaac's word. Michael P. Collins | mikec@phx.mcd.mot.com Motorola Microcomputer Division | Tempe, AZ | ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 89 11:44:46 GMT From: datapg!com50!questar!al@uunet.uu.net (Al Viall) Subject: Re: YAHSS (Yet Another Henry Spencer Signature) In article <8909271713.AA00536@aristotle.Jpl.Nasa.Gov>, pjs@ARISTOTLE-GW.JPL.NASA.GOV (Peter Scott) writes: > jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@rutgers.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: > > >"Where is D.D. Harriman now > >when we really *need* him?" > > Hmm... has anyone tried pitching the commercial space program to Donald Trump? > I was just in Manhattan and visited Trump Tower. It's obvious the guy isn't > afraid to spend money... ah, I can see it now... the *real* "Trump Shuttle"... > > Peter Scott (pjs@grouch.jpl.nasa.gov) Funny as it is, I had the same thought awhile back. I figured that there are enough billionaires in the world vain enough to see thier names emblazoned across the heavens that a space station could be up and running in no time. Of course, we'd have to call it 'TRUMP STATION'. Later, we could all watch shuttles race around the moon in the 'MOON d' TRUMP'. Albert Viall -- | INTERNET: al@questar.QUESTAR.MN.ORG | FLASH: "Dan Quayle's face | | UUCP: ..!amdahl!tcnet!questar!al | seen on Mars" It Looks Puzzled| | "Uhh, Excuse me while I take a moment to adjust my tribble." | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: 29 Sep 89 14:29:59 GMT From: hpfcso!hpldola!hpctdlb!hpctdls!rbk@hplabs.hp.com (Richard Katz) Subject: Re: Flame On!!! -/hpctdls:sci.space/ CC62@SDSUMUS.BITNET(Andy Edeburn) /9:59 am Sep 28, 1989 / - -Alright, let's get a few things straight out there. - ... -(2.) Fears of Infecting the Jovian System. - How many of you people claim to be scientists? How many of you took -basic college biology or microbiology courses? Wake up! Most bacteria -or viruses do not survive in temperatures above 130 degress Celsius or -below -50 degrees Celsius. Seeing how temperatures in the vacuum go -farther beyond either of these two extremes, your fears of microbial -infection at Jupiter seem pretty ridiculous, don't you think? Really. Now where do you get your data that inside the probe, the area people are concerned about, vary in temperature from below -50C to above +130C. Generally, spacecraft are kept at a fairly comfortable temperature. Before making this statement why don't you get some real data or specifications on this system? Secondly, if you want to 'prove' that some people's fears about infection at Jupiter are pretty ridiculous, you should not use terms such as "MOST bacteria or viruses". Saying that things are PROBABLY ok isn't a good way to go about things, if you feel that the risks of being wrong are important. We've all seen what happens with this kind of mentality. If you don't feel that "infecting" Jupiter is important then fine, that's your opinion. - Think before you post!!! Good plan. -+--------------------------------------------------------------------+ -| Andy Edeburn {CC62@SDSUMUS} | "It is always better to trust | -| Computing Center & Data Processing | your dog, rather than your | -| South Dakota State University | neighbors." - Walton | -+--------------------------------------------------------------------+ rich k. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 89 22:00:55 GMT From: mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Henry Spencer) Subject: Re: X-30, Space Station Strangles NASP In article <5292@eos.UUCP> eugene@eos.UUCP (Eugene Miya) writes: >Yeah, I think Henry and I agree on this one. We need more X-30 >type programs. And its not clear what kinds of directions are needed. >We sort of got side tracked from the X-15/X-20 lines of doing things.... >There's a lot of research required for sustained hypersonic flight. Actually, I was thinking of space launchers in general rather than hypersonic flight in particular -- I'm actually not convinced that hypersonic flight is the way to go for cheap spaceflight -- but the point still holds: too many ideas with potentially large payoffs are languishing on the ground instead of being tested in flight. -- "Where is D.D. Harriman now, | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology when we really *need* him?" | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu ------------------------------ Date: 1 Oct 89 00:15:52 GMT From: ncis.tis.llnl.gov!blackbird!tkelso@lll-winken.llnl.gov (TS Kelso) Subject: NASA Prediction Bulletin Format As a service to the satellite user community, the following description of the NASA Prediction Bulletin's two-line orbital element set format is uploaded to sci.space on a monthly basis. The most current orbital elements from the NASA Prediction Bulletins are carried on the Celestial RCP/M, (513) 427-0674, and are updated several times weekly. Documentation and tracking software are also available on this system. The Celestial RCP/M may be accessed 24 hours/day at 300, 1200, or 2400 baud using 8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity. ============================================================================== Data for each satellite consists of three lines in the following format: AAAAAAAAAAA 1 NNNNNU NNNNNAAA NNNNN.NNNNNNNN +.NNNNNNNN +NNNNN-N +NNNNN-N N NNNNN 2 NNNNN NNN.NNNN NNN.NNNN NNNNNNN NNN.NNNN NNN.NNNN NN.NNNNNNNNNNNNNN Line 1 is a eleven-character name. Lines 2 and 3 are the standard Two-Line Orbital Element Set Format identical to that used by NASA and NORAD. The format description is: Line 2 Column Description 01-01 Line Number of Element Data 03-07 Satellite Number 10-11 International Designator (Last two digits of launch year) 12-14 International Designator (Launch number of the year) 15-17 International Designator (Piece of launch) 19-20 Epoch Year (Last two digits of year) 21-32 Epoch (Julian Day and fractional portion of the day) 34-43 First Time Derivative of the Mean Motion or Ballistic Coefficient (Depending on ephemeris type) 45-52 Second Time Derivative of Mean Motion (decimal point assumed; blank if N/A) 54-61 BSTAR drag term if GP4 general perturbation theory was used. Otherwise, radiation pressure coefficient. (Decimal point assumed) 63-63 Ephemeris type 65-68 Element number 69-69 Check Sum (Modulo 10) (Letters, blanks, periods = 0; minus sign = 1; plus sign = 2) Line 3 Column Description 01-01 Line Number of Element Data 03-07 Satellite Number 09-16 Inclination [Degrees] 18-25 Right Ascension of the Ascending Node [Degrees] 27-33 Eccentricity (decimal point assumed) 35-42 Argument of Perigee [Degrees] 44-51 Mean Anomaly [Degrees] 53-63 Mean Motion [Revs per day] 64-68 Revolution number at epoch [Revs] 69-69 Check Sum (Modulo 10) All other columns are blank or fixed. Example: NOAA 6 1 11416U 86 50.28438588 0.00000140 67960-4 0 5293 2 11416 98.5105 69.3305 0012788 63.2828 296.9658 14.24899292346978 Note that the International Designator fields are usually blank, as issued in the NASA Prediction Bulletins. -- Dr TS Kelso Asst Professor of Space Operations tkelso@blackbird.afit.af.mil Air Force Institute of Technology ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 89 12:04 CST From: "I did not commit any crime." Subject: Earth microorganisms on Jupiter. I feel that thinking that Earth micro-organisms are somehow "hardier" than Jupiter's (if existant) is a very egotistical thought. As far as I can recall, all of the instances on Earth where "imported" micro-organisms "took over" (say Hawaii, for instance), the place they were imported to was a very small, fairly stable ecosystem, and the imports were from large, diverse systems. It could be argued that the Jupiterian environment is larger, and more diverse to boot :-) (Thought: this is similar to the expectation by most Americans that wherever they go, they'll be able to speak English, and be understood. Unfortunately, it seems to work :-) Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 89 12:04 CST From: "I did not commit any crime." Subject: Earth microorganisms on Jupiter. I feel that thinking that Earth micro-organisms are somehow "hardier" than Jupiter's (if existant) is a very egotistical thought. As far as I can recall, all of the instances on Earth where "imported" micro-organisms "took over" (say Hawaii, for instance), the place they were imported to was a very small, fairly stable ecosystem, and the imports were from large, diverse systems. It could be argued that the Jupiterian environment is larger, and more diverse to boot :-) (Thought: this is similar to the expectation by most Americans that wherever they go, they'll be able to speak English, and be understood. Unfortunately, it seems to work :-) Scott ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V10 #110 *******************