Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from beak.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Sun, 22 Oct 89 18:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Sun, 22 Oct 89 18:49:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPACE Digest V10 #156 SPACE Digest Volume 10 : Issue 156 Today's Topics: cost of space Re: Try thinking before stinking Aldrich named Associate Administrator for Aeronautics and Space technology; Crippen to head shuttle program (Forwarded) Re: Galileo--- history repeats itself Re: Will NASA Contaminate Jupiter? Re: comm capacity (voyager inter-stellar space) Re: $2 billion for new 70m dish Re: Trump Station Re: Separation at high Mach numbers Re: sterilization of Galileo ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 Oct 89 16:59:52 GMT From: brody@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Adam Brody) Subject: cost of space Final Frontier magazine recently put the cost of space into perspective in down to earth terms. While this year's budget request for Freedom seems large at $2.1 billion, that's roughly on fourth the amount americans spend on pornography each year and half what they spend on perfume. "The cost of the entire Voyager program from launch in 1977 through Voyager 2's encounter with Neptune in 1989 comes to $556 million. That's just six million more than junk bond trader Michael Milken 'earned' as personal income in 1987....Moviegoers shelled out a combined total of $503 million through the end of 1987 to Star Wars, Return of the Jedi and The Empire Strikes Back." Stealth bomber costs $531 million and current plan is to build 132 of them. "One space shuttle flight--if you divide NASA's 1989 budget for shuttle operations by the number of missions flown this fiscal year--costs $400 million. That's about the same amount Coca-Cola spends each year on advertising....direct mail advertisers spent a total of $19.1 billion in 1987...roughly twice the amount NASA spent in that same year." NASA's ten-year SETI program is priced at about $80 million, about the same as the Pentagon's 1986 phone bill ($84.8 million). ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 89 20:02:29 GMT From: agate!earthquake.Berkeley.EDU!gwh@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (George William Herbert) Subject: Re: Try thinking before stinking In article <15547@netnews.upenn.edu> santerel@delany.cis.upenn.edu.UUCP (Walter Santarelli) writes: >hampered the Galileo mission. The RTG's which everyone is arguing over >have been slowly depleting over the past 4-6(?)years while the vehicle Oh really? I saw that the rtg's were replaced with new ones a few months ago. Check your sources. **************************************** George William Herbert UCB Naval Architecture Dpt. (my god, even on schedule!) maniac@garnet.berkeley.edu gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu ---------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 89 20:24:43 GMT From: trident.arc.nasa.gov!yee@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Peter E. Yee) Subject: Aldrich named Associate Administrator for Aeronautics and Space technology; Crippen to head shuttle program (Forwarded) David Garrett Headquarters, Washington, D.C. October 16, 1989 RELEASE: 89-162 ALDRICH NAMED ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR FOR AERONAUTICS AND SPACE TECHNOLOGY; CRIPPEN TO HEAD SHUTTLE PROGRAM NASA Administrator Richard H. Truly today announced two key appointments to become effective following the successful completion of the STS-34 Galileo Space Shuttle mission. Arnold D. Aldrich has been named Associate Administrator for the Office of Aeronautics and Space Technology (OAST) and Captain Robert L. Crippen, USN, has been named Director of the Space Shuttle Program. In his new position, Aldrich will be responsible for the direction of NASA's aeronautics and space technology programs as well as for the institutional management of NASA's Ames Research Center,Mountain View, Calif.; Langley Research Center, Hampton, Va.; and Lewis Research Center, Cleveland. Aldrich is currently Director, National Space Transportation System (NSTS), and provided the program leadership in the safe and successful return to flight of the Shuttle. In his new role, Crippen will have full responsibility for the operation and conduct of the Space Shuttle program and will report directly to Dr. William B. Lenoir, acting Associate Administrator for Space Flight. Crippen is currently Deputy Director, NSTS Operations. Administrator Truly commented, "I'm delighted that NASA has two outstanding executives in Arnie Aldrich and Bob Crippen who are so well prepared to take on these important new responsibilities. It speaks well for the inherent strength of the NASA organization. These management changes bode well for a strong future in NASA's aeronautics and technology programs, as well as insure stability in the Space Shuttle leadership." Aldrich has been associated with the U.S. manned space program almost since its inception, joining the NASA Space Task Group, the forerunner of NASA's Manned Spacecraft Center (later the Johnson Space Center, Houston) in 1959 after graduation from Northeastern University. From 1966 to 1975, he held increasingly responsible positions in the Apollo program. In 1975, Aldrich joined the Space Shuttle program office where he managed various aspects of the program until his appointment as overall Shuttle program manager in 1985. In November 1986, he was named to his current position as Director, NSTS. Aldrich is an Associate Fellow of the American Instutute of Aeronautics and Astronautics and a Fellow of the American Astronautical Society. He has twice received the Presidential Rank of Meritorious Executive, as well as the NASA Distinguished Service Medal, the Arthur S. Fleming Award, the NASA Outstanding Leadership Medal, the NASA Exceptional Service Medal and numerous other honors. Crippen, a native Texan and a graduate of the University of Texas, is a former Navy carrier pilot and became a NASA astronaut in 1969. He was in the astronaut support crew for the Skylab 2, 3 and 4 missions as well as the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project. Crippen has the distinction of having flown on a record four Shuttle missions, having served as pilot of the first Shuttle flight in April 1981 and commander of three subsequent missions in June 1983 and April and October 1984. Crippen is a Fellow of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics and a Fellow of the American Astronautical Society. Among his many awards are the NASA Exceptional Service Medal, the NASA Distinguished Service Medal, the Department of Defense Distinguished Service Award and four NASA Space Flight Medals. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Oct 89 23:22:11 GMT From: portal!cup.portal.com!mmm@uunet.uu.net (Mark Robert Thorson) Subject: Re: Galileo--- history repeats itself The Christic Institute is (or was) on the net; I remember seeing some postings from them in sci.environment. Perhaps someone could post their net address and invite them to give a statement? (Perhaps sci.space.flame could be created in advance for this purpose?) I thought I heard that they are funded by a number of Christian churches, hence the name. Of course, this could just be a cover story. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Oct 89 14:38:50 GMT From: crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen@uunet.uu.net (Wm E Davidsen Jr) Subject: Re: Will NASA Contaminate Jupiter? In article <3437@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu>, jwm@stda.jhuapl.edu (Jim Meritt) writes: | Question 2: How fast could a biological contaminant, even assuming it | was in perfect condition, actually get around the planet? Is | "contaminate Jupiter" a bit of an exaguration that at best should | be "mess up a tiny neighborhood"? I doubt that anything from earth could even live on Jupiter, but here's a worst case thought. Assume a microbe which can replicate every minute given adequate food. Assume something in the atmosphere is "adequate food," and that the feeding process does not require sunlight, such as the bacteria which live in aviation fuel, etc. Assume wind velocity high enough to circle the planet in a few months. Well, no one has been there, but I have seen guesses that the winds are there, so that's not a big assumption. Start doing the power series, and you find the whole planet contaminated in less than a year. Make the breeding rate slower and you barely touch the number. Fortunately the assumption that ANY of Jupiter would be edible is unlikely. I think that if we had a good idea of what conditions were on Jupiter and a reason to do it, we could engineer a bacteria which would survive. Developing a bug which survives is the least dificult part of genetic engineering. The hard part is making the bug do something useful, avoiding side effects, controlling growth, and other containment issues. -- bill davidsen (davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM -or- uunet!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen) "The world is filled with fools. They blindly follow their so-called 'reason' in the face of the church and common sense. Any fool can see that the world is flat!" - anon ------------------------------ Date: 12 Oct 89 17:39:05 GMT From: eugene@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Eugene Miya) Subject: Re: comm capacity (voyager inter-stellar space) In article <2500@ibmpa.UUCP> szabonj@ibmpa.UUCP (Nick Szabo) writes: >The "Voyager Interstellar Mission" is a new twist. There are a large >number of people working on Voyager right now, and quite naturally they >need something to do. > DSN discussion removed for space. > >A question for astronomers and planetary scientists on the net: does >the "Voyager Interstellar Mission" have enough scientific merit to sacrifice >data from Galileo and Magellan? > >If not, IMHO Voyager workers should be transferred to Galileo, Magellan or >wherever they want to go, and retrained as necessary. They are heroes >and deserve our best. We can let the Voyagers fly free, checking in >as schedules allow, content in the knowledge that they have completed our >greatest space mission ever. Well, let's see. I worked 3 years on Voyager, a year on a VOIR [Now Magellan] proposal which ended up in the can [they're still all friends], and also for the Deep Space Network's Tracking and Data Acq. Office during that time. I think you are basically talking a drop in the bucket of data. Voyager is going into a phase like the three Pioneers (controlled at Ames), and a fair number of heliocentric missions. (As well as energy projection tests, and high bandwidth Earth satellites). I think that earth based systems have their advantages and dis-advatanges (as does TDRSS). This would take too long explain, but I know people are planning in the 2000 to 2010 and out to the 2030 time frame (take a moment to think about how old you will be in 2030). Getting the money is one thing. The expected bit requirements and capacities are minor. Anyway Voyager workers HAVE moved to Galileo [a project I never worked on (do know co-workers on it)] and Magellan. When I started working at the Lab, people were winding off of Viking. The joke was "where do Viking Project people go?" Think a moment about this: Answer: Valhalla. 8) If you have known this joke (I posted once before) without hearing it from me, then you had inside information. So transfers and layoffs, using resources are no biggie. There are big problems, but they get discussed in meetings in Pasadena and Washington. So I would not worry. These were and are problems faced 10 years ago. It takes this kind of timing to work on solutions. I can refer one to NASA internal deep space documents. [Not necessary worth anything, BTW] Back to astonomy, this is a space policy question. [Who has time to read talk.space?] P.S. The people who work and have worked on Voyager aren't heros. Another gross generalization from --eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@aurora.arc.nasa.gov resident cynic at the Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers: "You trust the `reply' command with all those different mailers out there?" "If my mail does not reach you, please accept my apology." {ncar,decwrl,hplabs,uunet}!ames!eugene Support the Free Software Foundation (FSF) ------------------------------ Date: 12 Oct 89 18:29:29 GMT From: spdcc!merk!xylogics!barnes@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (Jim Barnes) Subject: Re: $2 billion for new 70m dish In article <2500@ibmpa.UUCP> szabonj@ibmpa.UUCP (Nick Szabo) writes: >Both Voyagers, two of the Pioneers, and ICE all require the >use of our largest and rarest (70m) antennae. Building a new 70m dish >would cost and estimated $2 billion: the price of a new space shuttle. $2 billion?? Can you provide some info why it should cost that much? If it really costs that much, maybe we can scratch 4 or 5 B-2 bombers and build the 70m dish instead. ;-) ---- Jim Barnes (barnes@Xylogics.COM) ------------------------------ Date: 12 Oct 89 21:45:36 GMT From: ogccse!blake!milton!maven!games@ucsd.edu (Games Wizard) Subject: Re: Trump Station In article <1989Oct12.183824.27684@utzoo.uucp>, henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: > In article <10904@dasys1.UUCP> rsweeney@dasys1.UUCP (Robert Sweeney) writes: >>... his personal fortune is estimated at >>"only" around $ 1.7 billion. While this is an incredible amount of money, >>it's not enough to run a personal space program. > > It's enough to run quite a large personal space program if it's done right. > Remember, that's the equivalent of about 17 billion NASA dollars. O.K. so he's got the dough. Can somebody give me his address, so I can write him a nice letter, and ask him to give me a job working on his space station? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Trendy footer by: John Stevens-Schlick Internet?: JOHN@tranya.cpac.washington.edu 7720 35'th Ave S.W. Seattle, Wa. 98126 (206) 935 - 4384 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My employer dosen't know what I do. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Oct 89 17:29:59 GMT From: mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Henry Spencer) Subject: Re: Separation at high Mach numbers In article <1258@orbit.UUCP> schaper@pnet51.orb.mn.org (S Schaper) writes: >That would put rather a crimp if the West German Sanger project wouldn't it. >Presumably they have at least computer modeled a way to sep the >Hermes-derivitive orbiter from the hypersonic aerospace vehicle. They're wind-tunnel testing it too. But much depends on details; it certainly can be done, but it has to be checked very carefully for the exact vehicles being used. This is actually an issue even at low Mach numbers. "Stores separation" tests are a significant part of combat-jet development. -- A bit of tolerance is worth a | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology megabyte of flaming. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu ------------------------------ Date: 15 Oct 89 16:34:24 GMT From: gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!aplcen!aplvax.jhuapl.edu!jwm@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Jim Meritt) Subject: Re: sterilization of Galileo In article <8910132150.AA03427@ti.com> pyron@skvax1.csc.ti.com (expert - washed up drip under pressure) writes: }Okay, so we have some hypothetical microbes which can withstand (in order to }travel to Jupiter and live there in comfort) vacuum, hard (and I mean hard) }radiation, high temperatures and high pressure. Pray tell, then, how does one }sterilize the probe? Magic incantations? It likes high pressure, low pressure, high temperature, low temperature, oxidizing atmosphere, reducing atmosphere, high gravity, no gravity,... If such a beastie existed, we wouldn't be here! ergo, so such critter. ergo, no problem. Just sterilize the probe by sending it to Jupiter! That that is is that that is. That that is not is that that is not. That that is is not that that is not. That that is not is not that that is. And that includes these opinions, which are solely mine! jwm@aplvax.jhuapl.edu - or - jwm@aplvax.uucp - or - meritt%aplvm.BITNET ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V10 #156 *******************