Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from beak.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Wed, 8 Nov 89 01:26:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8ZJwQ5G00VcJ8Na04Y@andrew.cmu.edu> Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Wed, 8 Nov 89 01:26:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: SPACE Digest V10 #219 SPACE Digest Volume 10 : Issue 219 Today's Topics: Re: galileo and me Re: Moon Colonies / Ant Tanks? PROSPACE ACTIVIST ALERT (time critical) Re: Voyager/Galileo Camera function NASA Headline News (Forwarded) Re: If There Were No Shuttle space stamp Weapons labs in peacetime Re: SPACE Digest V10 #208 Re: Advice?? (asking for) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 7 Nov 89 10:13:23 GMT From: uokmax!mflawson@apple.com (Michael F Lawson) Subject: Re: galileo and me In article <1989Nov4.211211.13592@herbert.uucp> doug@jimi.cs.unlv.edu (Doug Phillipson 5-0134) writes: > > ... I don't know about you but I want my children > to be able to live and work in space exploring the unknown. > >It was a thrill to watch the launch and I would work for free to get into >space (or at least for room and board)... Isn't this sad. There are so many of us who would give up most of our free time to work toward getting into space. I would really not mind paying more taxes to fund it, either, if the job were done 'right'. It seems to me that a volunteer, engineering-based organization could really make some miracles happen, since the major costs would be hardware, not salaries. I suppose that the biggest problem with this approach would be to coordinate people all across the country or world. Maybe one day this country/government/space agency will realize that bureaucracy only seems to produce more of the same. Mike Lawson mflawson@uokmax.uucp ------------------------------ Date: 7 Nov 89 20:22:59 GMT From: uceng!dmocsny@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (daniel mocsny) Subject: Re: Moon Colonies / Ant Tanks? In article <1989Nov6.220801.7153@utzoo.uucp>, henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: > In article <2683@uceng.UC.EDU> dmocsny@uceng.UC.EDU (daniel mocsny) writes: > >... While the European pioneers were entering a rather > >hostile environment, they certainly did not face any fundamental > >environmental obstacles compared to living in Europe... > > The Donner Party would be interested to hear that. (They starved.) Several of the emigration waves resulted from famine in Europe. I was under the impression that only the very first pioneers into a given undeveloped region had a mortality rate significantly higher than that of people who stayed in Europe. Leaving Europe was not a picnic, but for many people it was not a picnic to stay either. In any case, the basic technologies that worked in Europe (agriculture, herding, hunting, etc.) all worked just as well in North America, when the *necessary* *infrastructure* was in place. That is what I meant when I referred to "fundamental environmental obstacles." Nothing about North America made it a fundamentally harder place to survive than Europe. Going to the Moon, however, will require fundamental re-thinking of every major industry. > As I've commented in the past, for an unprotected human, the survival time > in a -40C Saskatchewan blizzard is not much longer than on the surface of > the Moon. I grew up there. Schoolkids safely cope with that environment. How many hours of labor would that schoolkid have to invest (or have invested on her behalf by an adult) to construct the necessary enabling garments and shelter? The schoolkid could readily learn to kill a polar bear, skin it, scrape its hide, and sew it into a parka. (Note: I'm not saying those are trivial skills, only that they are within the ability of an individual starting with very little.) How long would the schoolkid have to study and labor before being able to construct a space suit, extract air from rocks, and recycle her own wastes with 99% efficiency? Small groups of people can live on the tundra, requiring only the skills and information they can master by hand. Surviving on the Moon, on the other hand, requires the output of a fantastically complex and differentiated (and hence fragile) industrial society. Whether that society will be materially productive enough to afford living there any time soon is questionable. > There is plenty of oxygen -- about the only component of air that really > matters -- in lunar rock. There *is* a shortage of water, but humans > have handled that before. Obtaining O_2 from rocks will price it on the order of other commodities obtained from readily available materials with moderate processing. For example, portland cement. This will consume a big chunk of the wealth-creating power of a Moon colony. How big, I can't say. But I am quite sure that few if any existing industries on earth could turn a profit if they had to rely on extracting O_2 from rocks. Humans have "handled" water shortages, but only by shifting their indirect water consumption elsewhere. That is, by siting heavy industries in locations with adequate water, and shipping finished goods instead of water. If this is how we will "handle" the water shortage on the Moon, then heavy industry will not exist there. That gives you a Moon base, not a colony. I'm not saying that is a bad idea. Dan Mocsny dmocsny@uceng.uc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 89 09:42:45 PST From: mordor!lll-tis!oodis01!riacs!rutgers!pnet01.cts.com!jim@angband.s1.gov (Jim Bowery) To: ucsd!nosc!crash!space@angband.s1.gov Subject: PROSPACE ACTIVIST ALERT (time critical) Contact Rep. Bill Nelson's office at the US House of Representatives 202/224-3121 with the following message: Congressman Nelson's attempt to defuze HR2674 by diluting the Nov. 9 hearings on that vital bill with legislative oversight matters involving implementation details of prior legislation has caused the Dept. of Commerce and other key players to stay away from these hearings. As a grassroots space activist, I look to Congressman Nelson for leadership, not obstruction, when it comes to the commercialization of launch services. I expect Congressman Nelson to correct the damage that has been caused by this cheap political maneuver and, further, to begin taking a leadership position in the reform of procurement of launch services. The only evidence I will accept is cosponsorship and a visible leading position in the timely passage of HR2674. END OF MESSAGE Background Hearings on HR2674, the Space Transportation Services Act of 1989, were scheduled for 9:30am, Nov. 9 in room 2325 Rayburn House Office Building. If you get this message before that time, encourage any friends you have in the D.C. area to attend -- we need to show interest in this bill. The chairman of the full committee on science, space and technology, Rep. Roe, had encouraged Rep. Nelson to hold these hearings on behalf of the sponsors Rep. Brown and Rep. Packard. Having scheduled the hearing, set up witnesses and prepared testimony, Rep. Roe left on international travel last week. In Rep. Roe's absence, just a few days before the hearings, Rep. Nelson "expanded the scope" of the hearings to include details of oversight of legislation which was passed in 1984 -- a move which prompted the Commerce Dept. to withdraw from the hearings and caused consternation among supporters of HR2674 and the witnesses which had worked hard preparing to testify. Washington insiders suspect Nelson is concerned that since he did not originate the bill, and since it would have such a profound effect on space policy, that it would make him appear to be less of a leader, just as he is preparing to make a bid for the office of Governer of Florida. Therefore, he is attempting to place it on the back burner in hopes it will not become an issue before his bid for the Governership. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Bowery PHONE: 619/295-8868 BE A SPACE ACTIVIST PO Box 1981 GET OFF THE NET AND SET UP AN APPOINTMENT WITH YOUR La Jolla, CA 92038 CONGRESSMAN! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!jim ARPA: crash!pnet01!jim@nosc.mil INET: jim@pnet01.cts.com ------------------------------ Date: 6 Nov 89 21:43:51 GMT From: bungia!orbit!pnet51!schaper@UMN-CS.CS.UMN.EDU (S Schaper) Subject: Re: Voyager/Galileo Camera function You bet, There are programs that mathematically simulate the geometry of a voila! Image sort of as though taken through a real lens! Too bad we missed the opportunity for a publicity shot at Jupiter. After that the pics were too valuable data/time wise. UUCP: {amdahl!bungia, uunet!rosevax, chinet, killer}!orbit!pnet51!schaper ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!schaper@nosc.mil INET: schaper@pnet51.cts.com ------------------------------ Date: 7 Nov 89 18:24:19 GMT From: cs.utexas.edu!usc!henry.jpl.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!forsight!jato!mars.jpl.nasa.gov!baalke@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Ron Baalke) Subject: NASA Headline News (Forwarded) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Tuesday, November 7, 1989 audio: 202/755-1788 ----------------------------------------------------------------- This is NASA headline news for Tuesday, November 7...... NASA Space Shuttle officials have set November 20 as the launch date for the STS-33 Department of Defense classified mission. A four hour launch period will begin at 6:30 p.m., eastern time. The flight readiness review found no major issues are being worked which would preclude launch on the 20th. The announcement came as workers on the pad were preparing for the main engine flight readiness test tomorrow. During the past 24 hours the heat shields on Discovery's engines 2 and 3 have been installed and late yesterday the helium signature test of the main propulsion system was completed. The American Astronomical Society says the federal government should take steps to improve U.S. competitiveness in commercial space activities. An A-A-S position paper, released Friday, says some anti-trust statutes should be set aside, the patent approval process should be accelerated and tax incentives should be given to stimulate commercial space ventures. The report will be sent to the National Space Council, Congress and the White House. Meanwhile...the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics will release a similar report this week calling for major U.S. policy changes to allow the U.S. to win a substantial share of commercial space markets. Aviation Week magazine says the report states emphatically that in the future "space will be commercialized by the private sector, not the government". A news conference on the AIAA report is scheduled for tomorrow. Space Services Incorporated will launch their Consort 2 suborbital sounding rocket November 15 from White Sands missile range, New Mexico. The rocket will carry another payload for the NASA-supported University of Alabama-Huntsville consortium for materials development in space program. The 12 experiment payload will experience seven minutes of microgravity. Damage to facilities at NASA's Ames Research Center in California from the October 17 earthquake has been estimated at $4 million. Among those facilities damaged was the national full-scale aerodynamics complex. It suffered about $1.5 million in damages. The center was closed for two days following the 7.1 magnitude earthquake. Ron Baalke | (818) 541-2341 x260 Jet Propulsion Lab M/S 301-355 | baalke@mars.jpl.nasa.gov 4800 Oak Grove Dr. | Pasadena, CA 91109 | ------------------------------ Date: 7 Nov 89 16:40:22 GMT From: cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!uwm.edu!mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Henry Spencer) Subject: Re: If There Were No Shuttle In article <4349@blake.acs.washington.edu> milligan@blake.acs.washington.edu (Gregory Milligan) writes: > If there were no shuttle, we would still be building and flying >Saturn 1-Bs and Saturn Vs... I'm not at all sure of that. The Saturn programs were winding down severely well before the shuttle was approved. -- A bit of tolerance is worth a | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology megabyte of flaming. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 89 21:05:47 EST From: capnal@aqua.whoi.edu (Alan Duester) Subject: space stamp I don't know if you're all aware of it, but there is currently a space stamp at the US Post Office. It's a $2.40 priority mail stamp of some kind, and it depicts two astronauts planting a US flag on the lunar surface. The craters on the stamp make the astronauts seem tens of miles tall, and the shadows are kind of funky, but it's space. ======================================================================== Al Duester, Ocean Engineer, MS S201 # SPAN: 6308::capnal Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution # INTERNET: capnal@aqua.whoi.edu Woods Hole, MA 02543 # GEnie: A.DUESTER (508) 548-1400 x2474 (508) 457-2000 auto-receptionist for touch tone phones ======================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: 6 Nov 89 21:43:12 GMT From: bungia!orbit!pnet51!schaper@UMN-CS.CS.UMN.EDU (S Schaper) Subject: Weapons labs in peacetime If peace does break out, put the weapons labs on advanced propulsion techniques. Glavcosmos will handle space exploration :-) ??? UUCP: {amdahl!bungia, uunet!rosevax, chinet, killer}!orbit!pnet51!schaper ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!schaper@nosc.mil INET: schaper@pnet51.cts.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Nov 89 18:16:05 EST From: OSWALD Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V10 #208 Hey, if my wife will let me I would go too. I don't know the protocol for sending mail on the net, so please excuse if I do anything wrong. I think that Americans are too soft as far as their *produc tivity * in the modern world is concerned. I am not American so I DON'T CARE WHO GETS THERE FIRST I just want to see us as human beings all get together and do something with out hearing about the Russians or the Europeans or the Japs. The earth is alrea dy too small for that sort of petty foolishness. MY FOOTER ::: ( Stolen from Sesame Street ) " Watch the witches cooperate, | I don't know my exact address and cook up something | but I hope I see this under lights really great " | ------------------------------ Date: 7 Nov 89 23:27:00 GMT From: cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Henry Spencer) Subject: Re: Advice?? (asking for) In article <1989Nov6.174204.896@utzoo.uucp> I wrote: >... For results, you want space science, which >tends to be classed as physics and astronomy... An addendum is in order here: one particular subdivision of space science, to wit planetary science (which is *not* all of space science even though Chairman Carl tends to give that impression at times...), is sometimes found in geology departments. -- A bit of tolerance is worth a | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology megabyte of flaming. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V10 #219 *******************