Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from beak.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Sat, 11 Nov 89 01:27:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Sat, 11 Nov 89 01:27:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: SPACE Digest V10 #234 SPACE Digest Volume 10 : Issue 234 Today's Topics: Wanted: Allen's "Astrophysical Quantities" Re: Future Space Missions Re: Moon Colonies / Ant Tanks? space digest Re: Atomic weapon/power demographics Re: Thanks For Responding Drop address When is Pegasus Launching Re: When is Pegasus Launching Re: Thanks For Responding Re: Moon Colonies / Ant Tanks? Re: Moon Colonies / Ant Tanks? Re: NASA Headline News for 10/26/89 (Forwarded) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 10 Nov 89 17:05:44 GMT From: safier@oddjob.uchicago.edu (Pedro Safier) Subject: Wanted: Allen's "Astrophysical Quantities" For a long time I've been trying to buy a copy of Allen's "Astrophysical Quantities", but I was told that it has been out of press for many years. Does anybody know where can I get one? Pedro. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pedro N. Safier | e-mail: safier@oddjob.uchicago.edu Dept. of Astronomy & Astrophysics | safier@tycho.yerkes.uchicago.edu University of Chicago | phone: (312) 702-6041 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 9 Nov 89 18:25:30 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!inmos!conor@uunet.uu.net (Conor O'Neill) Subject: Re: Future Space Missions In article <2086@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov> baalke@mars.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) writes: > > Future Space Missions What you really mean is "Future US Space Missions" ... -- Conor O'Neill, Software Group, INMOS Ltd., UK. UK: conor@inmos.co.uk US: conor@inmos.com "It's state-of-the-art" "But it doesn't work!" "That is the state-of-the-art". ------------------------------ Date: 10 Nov 89 21:11:46 GMT From: bfmny0!tneff@uunet.uu.net (Tom Neff) Subject: Re: Moon Colonies / Ant Tanks? In article <181@cypress.cs.utexas.edu> varvel@cs.utexas.edu (Donald A. Varvel) writes: >Somebody once asked Arthur C. Clarke, who lives in Sri Lanka, what >it would be like to live in a space colony. He replied, ``You'll >have to ask my friend Isaac Asimov. He lives in New York.'' Asimov >was asked why he created something as unattractive as the totally >enclosed lifestyle of the earth civilization in _The Caves of Steel_. >He simply couldn't understand what was unattractive about it. He >_liked_ the idea of living in steel caves. This gets repeated ad nauseam. A city like New York may look like a steel cave to someone like Clarke, but it assuredly is not. It's a breathing organic entity literally filled with life and ecology. It's quite diverse and TOTALLY uncontrolled. I don't mind if country folk amuse themselves with erroneous preconceptions about what cities are like :-) but don't try and apply it to this debate as fact. What we normally think of as "cities" are just the most-paved and most-peopled centers of vast interconnected economic zones. People visualize the inner 5% and conveniently ignore the outlying 95% that makes it possible. If you hovered above NYC in a blimp on any working day you would get a much better sense of what a sprawling, GREEN, OUTSIDE type of place even the biggest city is. In truth, the only places where people truly live indoors in closed environments are things like SAC bases and prisons. We consider these the extremity of human existence and don't think it unusual that most people wouldn't want to to more than visit. But they may be the *norm* in space. After long consideration I have decided that while enclosed off-Earth colonies may be workable in the short term on the strength of good intentions, and in the long term on pure coercion (don't knock it), they will spawn the most neurotic societies yet known to man, and possibly the most violent. Personally I love all this because it makes for compelling story lines, but as rosy futures go it leaves something to be desired. For peace of mind I suspect we will ultimately concentrate on enabling technologies for decentralized space living. That sets up some nice cultural wars if you go out several centuries. But this is now sci.fi and not sci.space... :-) -- "UNIX should be used :: Tom Neff or as an adjective." -- AT&T :: ...uunet!bfmny0!tneff (UUCP only) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 89 14:49:52 -0900 Sender: Reply-To: From: "Dave Thomas, one of the many" Subject: space digest How do I get on your mailing list? If you can, please put me on it. Dave Thomas FTDJT@ALASKA ------------------------------ Date: 9 Nov 89 20:16:52 GMT From: thorin!alanine!leech@mcnc.org (Jonathan Leech) Subject: Re: Atomic weapon/power demographics In article <891108184628.00001B8F0C1@grouch.JPL.NASA.GOV> PJS@GROUCH.JPL.NASA.GOV (Peter Scott) writes: >...This would make >a heck of a bargaining point the next time one of us has to debate one >of them to garner support for something like Galileo. I think it's probably not a good idea to draw a direct link between nuclear weapons and RTGs. Most people are fuzzy on the difference already, without the pro-RTG side adding potential confusion. -- Jon Leech (leech@cs.unc.edu) __@/ ``Nuclear fusion, the promise of limitless energy from sea water or something, has been just around the corner ever since World War II and is still just around the corner.'' - David Goodstein ------------------------------ Date: 10 Nov 89 17:11:52 GMT From: hplabsb!dsmith@hplabs.hp.com (David Smith) Subject: Re: Thanks For Responding In article <31710@cci632.UUCP> lmm@cci632.UUCP (Lance Michel) writes: >However, one thing you mentioned was Apollo 12 retrieving pieces from >Surveyor 3. WOW. I never knew that. and for some reason I find it >incredible that the navigation and guidance at that time could actually >bring someone that close to a specific spot. Can you provide any datails >as to WHAT PARTS?? or were their any PICURES of the Surveyor sitting there? >Was this planned, or luck? Definitely planned. Otherwise, what are the chances of coming down randomly somewhere on the Moon, just accidentally within walking distance of a Surveyor? I have a Life magazine covering the Apollo 12 mission, which contains a photo of one of the astronauts standing next to Surveyor, with the LEM up the hill in the background. Unfortunately, the astros killed their TV camera, and loaded their film camera with black&white film. Other than that, I greatly wished that they (Conrad & Bean) had been the first crew to land on the moon. They whistled while they worked, exclaimed at the beauty, talked a lot, and had a lot of fun. Armstrong & Aldrin kind of killed the excitement by their deadpan manner. -- David R. Smith, HP Labs dsmith@hplabs.hp.com (415) 857-7898 ------------------------------ Date: FRI NOV 10, 1989 11.33.49 EST From: "*** PUT YOUR NAME HERE ***" <$DLO%LEHIGH.BITNET@VMA.CC.CMU.EDU> Subject: Drop address To: Please frop "#AST" from your mailing list as this account no longer exists here at Lehigh. Thank you. Dead Letter Account Coordinator ---------------------------------------- = User Services = = Lehigh University Computing Center = = Internet: = = BITNET: = ---------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 9 Nov 89 16:54:53 GMT From: cs.utexas.edu!usc!henry.jpl.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!peregrine!ccicpg!cci632!rit!ritcv!jrb9465@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu Subject: When is Pegasus Launching I was wondering if somebody out there knew when the Pegasus booster was going to be first launched. Thanks in advance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | "If you smile at me I will understand. | John R. Broderick 'Cause that's something everybody | everywhere does in the same language." | rochester!ritcv!jrb9465 | S. Stills, D. Crosby, P. Kantner | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: 10 Nov 89 18:38:53 GMT From: cs.utexas.edu!samsung!usc!henry.jpl.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!mars!baalke@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Ron Baalke) Subject: Re: When is Pegasus Launching In article <1390@cs.rit.edu> jrb9465%ucss@cs.rit.edu (John R. Broderick) writes: > >I was wondering if somebody out there knew when the Pegasus booster >was going to be first launched. Thanks in advance. > December 8th. Ron Baalke | baalke@mars.jpl.nasa.gov Jet Propulsion Lab M/S 301-355 | baalke@jems.jpl.nasa.gov 4800 Oak Grove Dr. | Pasadena, CA 91109 | ------------------------------ Date: 10 Nov 89 18:11:54 GMT From: cs.utexas.edu!mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Henry Spencer) Subject: Re: Thanks For Responding In article <31710@cci632.UUCP> lmm@cci632.UUCP (Lance Michel) writes: >However, one thing you mentioned was Apollo 12 retrieving pieces from >Surveyor 3. WOW. I never knew that. and for some reason I find it >incredible that the navigation and guidance at that time could actually >bring someone that close to a specific spot. Can you provide any datails >as to WHAT PARTS?? or were their any PICURES of the Surveyor sitting there? >Was this planned, or luck? It was planned; a major objective of Apollo 12 was to demonstrate precision landing at a known point. (Apollo 11 didn't worry about such things, and in fact there was initially some uncertainty about its exact location.) There were plenty of pictures; see any account of the mission. Parts included Surveyor's camera and soil scoop; I can dig up an exact list if it's important. -- A bit of tolerance is worth a | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology megabyte of flaming. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu ------------------------------ Date: 11 Nov 89 00:57:13 GMT From: bfmny0!tneff@uunet.uu.net (Tom Neff) Subject: Re: Moon Colonies / Ant Tanks? I'm sure Asimov himself is being humorous when he says he likes living in the 'steel cave' of NY. He has not volunteered to move to Riker's Island, for instance, which is *truly* a steel cave. :-) It's a matter of degree, and of support. We flatter ourselves that we are good at staying indoors, but gloss over how much care we take to spend a certain hunk of every day OUT of doors, away from others. We point to isolated examples of people who look happy in semi permanent basement residence, without noticing the extensive network of other people whose *aboveground* daily lives and work are needed to make life in the basement possible. I am concerned that people are not taking in the whole picture at once. When we concentrate on the huge fun skydomes and golf courses and such, and hire our OMNI artists to paint them up real nice, we slide over issues of cost effectiveness. When we grind through heavy geochemistry scenarios for processing lunar materials at maximum efficiency, assembling low cost closed ecosystems etc., we don't spend much time worrying who'd want to LIVE in the resulting narrow Phantom of the Opera sewer complex and eat that green Robocop paste every damned day. Much less how their kids would grow up. Anyway, if you want your grandkids to live in space don't send them to the moon. The moon isn't space, it's another dirtball -- worse than this one! Send them to an asteroid instead. Asteroid interiors aren't space either, but the front porch is. -- "DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT blow the hatch!" /)\ Tom Neff "Roger....hatch blown!" \(/ tneff@bfmny0.UU.NET ------------------------------ Date: 10 Nov 89 01:26:37 GMT From: munnari.oz.au!murtoa.cs.mu.oz.au!ditmela!yarra!melba!zvs@uunet.uu.net (Zev Sero) Subject: Re: Moon Colonies / Ant Tanks? In article <10376@thorin.cs.unc.edu> leech@alanine.cs.unc.edu (Jonathan Leech) writes: but aren't doing so. The millenia+ delay between the enabling technology for crossing the Atlantic and large scale immigration to the New World provides no encouragement. The technology for crossing the ocean from Western Europe to Eastern Asia *and not starving on the way* did not exist millennia ago, and did not exist in Columbus's day. If Columbus had known how far it really was to India (like everyone else knew), he would never have tried to go there. It was just his luck that he found this great big refuelling station on the way. -- Zev Sero - zvs@bby.oz.au Australia, n. A country lying in the South Sea, whose industrial and commercial development has been unspeakably retarded by an unfortunate dispute among geographers as to whether it is a continent or an island. -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" ------------------------------ Date: 9 Nov 89 14:09:06 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!icdoc!syma!nickw@uunet.uu.net (Nick Watkins) Subject: Re: NASA Headline News for 10/26/89 (Forwarded) In article <1471@syma.sussex.ac.uk> nickw@syma.susx.ac.uk (Nick Watkins) writes: >CRRES (Combined Radiation and Release Experiments Satellite). Gas >release experiments, effect of radiation on microelectronics, and general >space plasma physics in GTO. Sorry. Should be Combined Release and Radiation Effects Satellite. Radiation effects experiments are the highest priority. > Maybe I'll post more after the CRRES Science meeting in Boulder I'll be >attending next week (I am starting a postdoc at Sussex related to this >mission). Nothing really to add otherwise. > CRRES seems to be a follow on to AMPTE and various USAF space test >program missions. It also effectively replaces the EQUATOR part of the Global Geospace Program, which also includes POLAR and GEOTAIL. Now my question. CRRES is to ride an Atlas 1. What is the difference between this and current Atlas Centaurs, and also what is an Atlas 2? Nick -- Nick Watkins, Space & Plasma Physics Group, School of Mathematical & Physical Sciences, Univ. of Sussex, Brighton, E.Sussex, BN1 9QH, ENGLAND JANET: nickw@syma.sussex.ac.uk BITNET: nickw%syma.sussex.ac.uk@uk.ac ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V10 #234 *******************