Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from beak.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Thu, 7 Dec 89 01:29:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Thu, 7 Dec 89 01:29:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: SPACE Digest V10 #316 SPACE Digest Volume 10 : Issue 316 Today's Topics: Fact vs Fiction Manned/Unmanned space and Underwater Colonization NASA Headline News for 12/06/89 (Forwarded) Re: Manned vs Unmanned Mission to Mars AI for Unmanned probes? News of the Week (sic), Dec 5 Does life revolve around macho impotency ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 Dec 89 11:10:37 EST From: John Roberts Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are those of the sender and do not reflect NIST policy or agreement. Subject: Fact vs Fiction >From: trident.arc.nasa.gov!yee@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Peter E. Yee) >Subject: NASA Headline News for 12/04/89 (Forwarded) >Recent news stories about a federal grand jury probe into space >shuttle solid rocket boosters are directed at possible >fraud....not safety concerns. The Huntsville news quotes >Marshall Space Flight Center Director Jack Lee as saying, "I >don't think it's a question of safety....but it might be a >question of fraud if the government finds that we paid for >something in the recertifiction program we didn't get". -------------- I hope that's not a Freudian slip! :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wednesday, 6 December 1989 0945-EST From: DAVID@PENNDRLS.UPENN.EDU Subject: Manned/Unmanned space and Underwater Colonization I thought the participants in the manned/unmanned space discussion with its subthread about an analogy with underwater exploration/ colonization would find the following quotes of interest. Both come from "The Ocean World", Jacques Cousteu, ISBN 0-8109-8068-1. Let me preface this by saying that in another book, while talking about CONSHELF II, he implies that his personal vision of the purpose of his explorations and of CONSHELF in particular include the desire for colonization, even though the projects themselves were more narrowly directed toward simply proving that man could live and work undersea for extended periods. The three week stay of CONSHELF III reaffirmed our experience that surface vessels and research equipment are more vulnerable to damage than the underwater habitat and that machines fail more often than men. Sound like a familiar argument? :-) Unfortunately, economics caught up with his next man-underwater project, which would have allowed men to stay submerged for long periods and make frequent dives, from a roving underwater vessel: The government suspended construction when [the vessel] was more than three quarters built. Leaving aside [the politics] the real reasons for the suspension are that the oil companies (the only industry rich enough to fund such a project) were convinced that they could successfully achieve their deep jobs without divers, using remote controlled tools. The parallel here is a little less strong; but, while the scientists are not exactly equivalent to commercial customers, their arguments in favor of automation *are* based on relative costs . . . And to make a personal answer to somebodies implication that if one wants to colonize space one also ought to want to colonize the continental shelves . . . well, I hadn't given it much thought, but yes, I would find that just as exciting. Of course, I'm likely to do as much about that as I am currently doing about space, (which is to read SPACE). I think colonization will go like this: spaceplane trips for 50,000 or so, followed by cheaper spaceplane trips and at the same time more expensive trips to an orbital shack, which will quickly grow into an orbital Hilton. At that point staff will be living in space, and it won't be long before there will be permanent residents and babies. Somebody will get a space-hilton job just to get to orbit and once there will buy or steal enough parts to go homestead an asteroid . . . . . . . ------------------------------ Date: 6 Dec 89 18:13:41 GMT From: trident.arc.nasa.gov!yee@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Peter E. Yee) Subject: NASA Headline News for 12/06/89 (Forwarded) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Wednesday, December 6, 1989 Audio: 202/755-1788 ----------------------------------------------------------------- This is NASA Headline News for Wednesday, December 6..... New information about Neptune and its moon Triton has been revealed by JPL scientists at the fall meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco. Photos taken by Voyager 2 cameras indicate that Neptune has the fastest winds yet observed in the solar system. Dr. Edward Stone says Neptune's jet-stream winds near the great dark spot may be as high as 1500 miles per hour. It was also revealed that enhanced images of Triton indicate there may be up to four more geyser-like volcanoes that spew nitrogen-ice onto the moon's surface. It's official. The STS-32 space shuttle mission is scheduled for a December 18 launch from Kennedy Space Center. It will be a night launch from the re-activated Pad 39A. The launch window opens at 7:29 P.M., Eastern time, and lasts about 62 minutes. The exact lift off time will be determined from the latest tracking data on the orbiting Long Duration Exposure Facility. Space shuttle managers, following completion of the Flight Readiness Review, say there are no major problems with the space shuttle stack, but because the refurbished mobile launch platform and pad complex will be used there is a more than usual chance that a delay in the launch could occur. During the 10-day mission, a SYNCOM communications satellite will be deployed...the LDEF will be retrieved and a variety of experiments will be conducted. The first commercial launch of the Titan III booster has been moved up to Thursday. Martin-Marietta says checkouts were completed ahead of time and they're ready to go. The Titan will boost a British Skynet 4A and a Japanese JSSAT-2 into orbit. Apogee kick motors will put the communication satellites into geosynchronous orbit. The Washington Post says an Office of Management and Budget report claims that NASA does not oversee some contracted programs closely enough. An OMB "high risk list" was released yesterday by Ohio Senator John Glenn that says NASA has three troubled programs that need tighter management controls and accounting procedures. The programs were not identified in the newspaper story. * * * * ----------------------------------------------------------------- Here's the broadcast schedule for public affairs events on NASA Select television. All times are Eastern. Thursday, December 7..... 11:30 A.M. NASA Update will be transmitted. Sunday, December 10.... Launch of the Global Positioning System-05 satellite by a Delta rocket. Launch window extends from 12 noon to 3:30 P.M. NASA Select will join the count at T-30 minutes. All events and times are subject to change without notice. ----------------------------------------------------------------- These reports are filed daily, Monday through Friday, at 12 noon, Eastern time. ----------------------------------------------------------------- A service of the Internal Communications Branch (LPC), NASA Headquarters, Washington, D.C. ------------------------------ Date: 6 Dec 89 16:43:20 GMT From: pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!dpmizar!dptspd!jma@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (John Arft) Subject: Re: Manned vs Unmanned Mission to Mars >>It [Apollo] caught the attention of nearly every human on the planet. >>When was the last time JPL did that? > >August of this year when Voyager II encountered Neptune? > Really? We sent a probe to Neptune? Oh, that's right. I remember seeing a 30 second blurb on the news. ;^) Abdul. ------------------------------ Date: 6 Dec 89 01:21:40 GMT From: zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!honors@think.com Subject: AI for Unmanned probes? One thing that the manned vs. unmanned debate has mostly ignored is the current status of artificial intelligence work. I am not an AI expert; however, I am a moderately experienced programmer and I have occasionally followed the status of AI in the "popular" computer press. From what I know of AI work: 1. AI is nowhere near the ability needed to give an unmanned craft (such as a Mars rover) something resembling human discrection and ability. 2. The major success of AI so far is in expert systems. Expert systems cannot practically be used to run an exploration craft, because all you can get out of an expert system is what you (or an expert, hence the name) put in. Almost by definition, an exploratory craft will run into new, unanticipated and unknown problems. This is not as great a problem for remote sensing craft, such as Voyager and Galileo; it will be very serious indeed for a real-time action craft, such as the afore mentioned Mars rover. Is there someone out there who is a little more conversant about AI than I am, who could judge the "Reality quotient" of these statements? It seems to me that most of the unmanned proponents have been assuming that AI technology will "be there when we need it." This doesn't seem apparant at all to me. Travis Butler ------------------------------ Date: 5 Dec 89 20:49:43 GMT From: frooz!cfa250!mcdowell@husc6.harvard.edu (Jonathan McDowell) Subject: News of the Week (sic), Dec 5 Jonathan's Space Report Dec 5,1989 (no.30) OK, let's catch up on the backlog... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Two major astrophysics missions were orbited this past month: The Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE) was launched by Delta 5920 from Vandenberg on Nov 18. COBE carries three instruments to study the diffuse extragalactic background radiation. The DMR experiment is searching for spatial variations in the 3K microwave background radiation: is the radiation slightly more intense in some directions than in others? The FIRAS experiment is studying the spectrum of the background radiation: how does the intensity of the radiation vary with wavelength? Is there an extra source of background radiation in the submillimetre wavelength range? The DIRBE experiment will study the amount of radiation at somewhat shorter infrared wavelengths, mapping the distribution of dust in our Galaxy and possibly from galaxies at high redshift. The 'Granat' X-ray astrophysical observatory was launched by Proton from Baykonur on Dec 2; it carries Soviet and French x-ray and gamma-ray telescopes. November also saw the flight of Discovery on the STS-33 mission, which deployed a payload in a low 28 degree orbit on Nov 23. The payload was probably a Mentor (alias Magnum) signals intelligence satellite for the National Security Agency, boosted to geostationary orbit with an IUS upper stage. On November 26, the Kvant-2 space station module was put in orbit. The module is due to dock with the Mir station, and carries an EVA airlock and EVA manoeuvring unit. One of two solar arrays failed to deploy initially, but has now been fully extended. The first attempt to dock with Mir failed on Dec 2, and another attempt is due this week. Kosmos-2049, launched Nov 17, is an advanced reconnaissance satellite. Kosmos-2050, launched Nov 23, is an early warning satellite operated by the PVO (Soviet Air Defence). Kosmos-2051, launched Nov 24, is a recon satellite. The 36th Molniya-3 communications satellite was orbited on Nov 28. A number of large satellites have reentered recently: the Kosmos-122 weather satellite on Nov 14, the Kosmos-1064 navigation satellite on Nov 12, the Kosmos-1662 radar calibration satellite on Nov 16, and the Solar Max satellite on Dec 2. The STS-32 mission is due for launch on Dec 18 from Complex 39A. (c) 1989 Jonathan McDowell ------------------------------ ReSent-Message-ID: ReSent-Date: Wed, 6 Dec 89 17:35:43 -0500 (EST) ReSent-From: "Todd L. Masco" ReSent-To: Space-Editors-New Date: Tue Dec 5 20:27:01 1989 From: D5TP1009@UTFSM.Bitnet Subject: Does life revolve around macho impotency Cc: D5TP1009@UTFSM.Bitnet Dear friends i would like to comment about a very intresting piece of writing that has just circulated. ========================================================================= >The expansion of terrestrial life to space is the greatest opportunity >for a positive resolution to the contemporary crisis in masculine identity >that currently plagues western cultures. Well who knows,..., as far as i know, macho identity isn't in crisis as we all know, relativity tells us there is more than one side to every- thing. >As discussed in George F. Gilder's brilliant analysis: "Sexual Suicide", >the growing denial that males require affirmation of their masculine identity >has resulted in western cultures exhibiting a kind of geopolitical neurosis. >A comprehensive list of the effects would be voluminous. I think i kind of missed the point, is this brilliant ?? let's be fair, I think George is suffering a crisis (Posesive wife ? ????? :-), maybe he was repressed in his youth !!!). >The political power of feminism, the space program and the war economy >............... ......... bla bla ........................ >increasing alienation through mobility and the erosion of moral and >ethical standards in human relations. Yow, Gorge, there's is lot's more people (men = MACHO), that do have perfectly good (decent) lives. Don't you think you're taking the point a tad toooooooo far ? >Something that Gilder didn't go into is that this has come about as >reaction to the loss of our frontiers combined with the unacceptability of >war as a way of getting rid of the "excess males". Humans have an >effective "harem size" of about 1.8 according to comparative primate >studies. The resulting excess males are usually driven away to bring >back protien (meat), spread the tribal culture and genes to other tribes >or die in wars to expand the tribe's territory. More recently, they >expanded agricultural areas into surrounding habitat. Of course, this >only addresses human males -- similar patterns can be found throughout >species of mammals and, in more abstract ways, in virtually all sexual >species with an effective harem size >1. I think this means that i'm a potential Stud. Great, We send of the excess males into space (great idea), and leave the pretty girls here. (Somehow I thought Science had another goal, but anyway i'll adapt :-) ). >With this in mind we might choose to redirect the resources we have been >borrowing to prop up male identity in the war economy and instead >establish a government program to support a bunch of excess males >(space nerds) in a space colony. This, however, would be ineffective. True, funds are spent in many projects deemed unnecessary, and lot's of military projects are mainly for pumping up Ego, (some tank or other that cost $$$$ and did nothing pretty impresive ). But remember that your microwave oven (without which you'd go crazy), and my beloved computers, are spinoffs either directly or indirectly of this macho ego. Well, to cut my crap short, before i bore your guts out. I agree your friend George has some points, BUT, the lingo is badly used. I doubt very much that a small kid wants to live in space, because his sex life and future hareem is involved. I'm not a prude, macho, chobinist or whatever they call us. I'm just a computer engineer who loves hi-tech, spcae and related. I'm sure woomen don't become involved in space flights, because there are more males in the crew than females. Come on life is too short. And there is to much BLA BLA and no aparent momentum. Your's Douglas Sargent D5OMTP1009@UTFSM ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V10 #316 *******************