Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from beak.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Fri, 25 May 90 02:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Fri, 25 May 90 02:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPACE Digest V11 #447 SPACE Digest Volume 11 : Issue 447 Today's Topics: Re: Splitting sci.space Ulysses vs Galileo Re: SPACE Digest V11 #440 Book: THE RESTLESS SUN Re: NASA Select TV light pollution exaggeration Re: Endangered squirrels Re: Endangered squirrels Payload Summary for 05/24/90 (Forwarded) Manned mission to Venus Re: German MIR astronaut Re: terraforming Venus ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 May 90 05:20:20 GMT From: sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!samsung!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@ucsd.edu (Henry Spencer) Subject: Re: Splitting sci.space In article <9005231554.AA03465@gemini.arc.nasa.gov> greer%utdssa.dnet%utadnx@utspan.span.nasa.gov writes: > Lately there have been an excessive number of sci-fi postings too. >Surely there is already some sort of talk.sci-fi group out there... There is rec.arts.sf-lovers, actually. However, trying to redirect such discussions is usually not worth the trouble. The best way to deal with problems like this is... believe it or not... ---> BE PATIENT and wait for it to die out <--- Most of the time, this sort of thing is a one-shot problem that will be forgotten a month later. In fact, this one is already pretty much gone. A little patience prevents a lot of pointless uproar. -- Life is too short to spend | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology debugging Intel parts. -Van J.| uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu ------------------------------ Date: 24 May 90 05:14:21 GMT From: sdd.hp.com!samsung!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@ucsd.edu (Henry Spencer) Subject: Ulysses vs Galileo In article <1990May23.223347.9100@tvcent.uucp> andrew@tvcent.uucp (Andrew Cowie) writes: >I'm no expert at orbital mechanics, but how can Ulysses slingshot around >Jupiter to get to a sun-polar orbit when it is taking Galileo 5 or so years >and 3 slingshots to get to Jupiter? Does it have to do with the masses of >the craft involved, or am I missing something important? Right the first time. Ulysses is a *lot* smaller and lighter than Galileo. The same rocket combination that was going to send Galileo direct to Jupiter -- Shuttle-Centaur -- was also slated to carry a *pair* of Ulysses-class probes to Jupiter, in the original International Solar Polar Mission. They would have gone around Jupiter in (roughly speaking) opposite directions, sending one over each pole of the Sun. One probe would have been built in Europe, the other in the US. The "International" part of ISPM was abruptly deleted when the US reneged on its promises and unilaterally cancelled its half of the mission. -- Life is too short to spend | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology debugging Intel parts. -Van J.| uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu ------------------------------ From: AZM@CU.NIH.GOV Date: Wed, 23 May 90 13:28:38 EDT Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V11 #440 > Date: 23 May 90 05:25:22 GMT > From: uoft02.utoledo.edu!fax0112@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Endangered squirrels > > In article <6981@hall.cray.com>, gbt@hall.cray.com (Greg Titus) writes: > > In article <9005211940.AA16520@gemini.arc.nasa.gov> > greer%utdssa.dnet%utadnx@utspan.span.nasa.gov writes: > >>... Estimates of > >>the Mt. Graham red squirrel population range from 50 to 150 individuals. > >> [quite a bit deleted] > >>... Since the > >>squirrels' habitat spans about 10,000 acres, ... > > > > I have a hard time reconciling these numbers. If we assume > > 100 squirrels for the population, then we've got a population > > density of 0.01 squirrel/acre. This is way too low for a > > small rodent -- I would expect something in the range 1 to 10 > > squirrels/acre, or 100 to 1000 times as great a density. > > Squirrels just don't range very far. At 0.01 squirrel/acre, > > they couldn't even breed. > > > > > I was just out in Tucson last week where the results of the latest > survey where published. They said the population was higher than last > year but still only about 125-150 critters. Your math is correct but on > what grounds do you make your breeding claim? As the squirrels seem > to have done ok so far I think your claim is absurd. > > > > Bob Dempsey > Ritter Observatory > > ------------------------------ I think that the folks out in Arizona should go ahead and build the observatory, and just plain forget about the squirrels. Some of them will die, and others will survive. The ones that survive will find new acreage upon which to forage and breed, and will be the fitter for it. A few rodents should not be of such concern that their pre- servation brings scientific research of any kind to a halt. It is time to restore a sense of sense to things. D. Valpar aka Marc Arlen AZM@NIHCU ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 90 10:23:16 CDT From: Will Martin Subject: Book: THE RESTLESS SUN Been reading a book on solar phenomena that might be of interest to people on this list -- THE RESTLESS SUN, by Donat G. Wentzel (1989, Smithsonian Institution Press, ISBN 0-87474-982-4, 279 pgs, no price indicated on dust jacket). This looks to be a pretty good overview of the current thought about solar mechanics, behavior, and cycles. SPACE readers will be interested in the fact that it refers constantly to the information obtained from Skylab and the Solar Maximum satellite. This happens to be one volume in the "Smithsonian Library of the Solar System" series. I was wondering if other readers had seen any of the other volumes in this series, and if they had any recommendations about those books? The only ones mentioned on this book's dust jacket are MERCURY, THE ELUSIVE PLANET by Robert G. Strom and THE MYSTERY OF COMETS by Fred L. Whipple; I don't know how recent those are. Regards, Will Martin ------------------------------ Date: 24 May 90 01:14:24 GMT From: bfmny0!tneff@uunet.uu.net (Tom Neff) Subject: Re: NASA Select TV In article leeh@groucho.cs.psu.edu (Lee Henderson) writes: >The last time I tried talking to my cable company about getting the >NASA feed they gave me a bunch of stuff about obtaining copyright >permissions. Perhaps Peter or Ron or someone can dig up The Official Statement (from NASA) on who is allowed to carry NASASELECT, how to go about it, etc etc, and post it here for interested people to capture. A contact number for cable operators to call would be nice too. Then we could back up our complaints or requests with some documentation. ------------------------------ Date: 24 May 90 05:36:29 GMT From: usc!samsung!umich!mailrus!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@ucsd.edu (Henry Spencer) Subject: light pollution exaggeration In article <3458@calvin.cs.mcgill.ca> msdos@calvin.cs.mcgill.ca (Mark SOKOLOWSKI) writes: >But you seem to forget that hardly anything can be seen through the smog >of the cities and megalopolises that will cover our planet within 5 to 10 >years. ... Mark, would it be too much to ask that you check these numbers before posting them? Even 50 to 100 years is too soon for something like that to happen except in fairly small areas. I've seen the moons of Jupiter from my apartment window, using just my old cruddy binoculars -- and this is in downtown Toronto, not the worst case but *not* a good one. -- Life is too short to spend | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology debugging Intel parts. -Van J.| uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu ------------------------------ Date: 24 May 90 04:57:44 GMT From: uoft02.utoledo.edu!fax0112@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Endangered squirrels > > They certainly are still there, which implies that they are > successful breeders. But for successful breeding, they've > got to find each other, which implies overlapping ranges. > Squirrels have small ranges -- probably less than 5 acres > per individual. And thereby hangs our tail ... ;-) at > 100 acres per squirrel, they won't see each other often > enough to successfully reproduce. } } I would like to know where you get the 5 acres figure? Making } a reasonable guess (and I agree your number seems reasonable) } is not the same as an observed fact. I do } not know how accurate these sort of counts are (of course newspapers } never give error bars). I wonder also what a typical squirrel } litter is and how quickly the population would grow if left alone } versus being bothered by telescopes. I suppose this was calculated } in this famous ecology impact study. From what I have seen, unless } you use pesticides etc squirrles do quite well around humans. } } } Bob Dempsey } Ritter Observatory } } Opinions expressed here were filmed entirely on location. } } ------------------------------ Date: 24 May 90 23:32:44 GMT From: sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!samsung!know!pug!wex@ucsd.edu (Buckaroo Banzai) Subject: Re: Endangered squirrels Ghod knows why this is still in sci.space, but one small correction... In article <6990@hall.cray.com> gbt@hall.cray.com (Greg Titus) writes: But for successful breeding, they've got to find each other, which implies overlapping ranges. The first statement is true, the second is false. A number of animals change their range/movement behaviors during mating season. They may move to common meeting areas or they may deliberately invade previously unexplored territory. This happens even in animals which maintain exclusive territories during non-mating seasons. Also, even if your estimate of range size is correct per animal, it is often the case that animal ranges have to be non-adjoining. For example wolf and coyote children leave the parents' pack to set up on their own. If the territory of the children's pack adjoins the parents, the parents may attack and drive the children farther away. Another thing to consider is the food-gathering habits of the squirrels: what do they eat? How sparse is food at the worst of times? Do they hibernate? There a *lot* of factors to consider, but this was supposed to be a brief note... -- --Alan Wexelblat Bull Worldwide Information Systems internet: wex@pws.bull.com phone: (508) 671-7485 Usenet: spdcc.com!know!wex The taxes of every American west of the Mississippi are used to pay off the interest on the national debt. ------------------------------ Date: 24 May 90 20:59:48 GMT From: trident.arc.nasa.gov!yee@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Peter E. Yee) Subject: Payload Summary for 05/24/90 (Forwarded) Payload Status Report Kennedy Space Center Thursday, May 24, 1990 George H. Diller 407/867-2468 FTS 823-2468 DELTA/ROSAT The spacecraft was erected atop the Delta rocket as scheduled on May 17. Yesterday it was encapsulated in the new 10-foot tri-section fairing. Final checks of ROSAT instruments have been performed and a pre-launch communications verification test with the central telemetry station at Hangar AE and the project control center in Germany is underway today. AC-69/CRRES The Simulated Flight test, a plus count to check the flight events of the Atlas Centaur vehicle which began yesterday, is concluding today. In this exercise, onboard systems were activated and their performance verified in the same manner in which they will operate in flight. A countdown dress rehearsal is scheduled for on or about June. 30. All countdown events up to main engine ignition will be performed, which includes fully loading the vehicle with liquid hydrogen, liquid oxygen, and RP-1 kerosene propellants. In the Payload Hazardous Servicing Facility, the CRRES spacecraft was fueled with a total of 265 pounds of hydrazine on- orbit control propellant today. Encapsulation in the payload fairing is scheduled for June 11. ULYSSES On Tuesday, June 22, the Ulysses spacecraft was removed from its shipping container in the clean room of Hangar AO. Receiving inspections are underway. Final assembly and testing operations will begin next week. The Inertial Upper Stage is scheduled to be moved from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station to the Vertical Processing Facility at KSC on June 5. It has been undergoing final assembly and checkout by the U.S. Air Force 6555th Aerospace Test Group and Boeing in the Solid Motor Assembly Building on CCAFS. GAMMA RAY OBSERVATORY GRO is inactive this week due to the hazardous fueling preparations and loading underway in the same facility. ------------------------------ Date: 25 May 90 01:34:00 GMT From: zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!rpitsmts!forumexp@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Commander Krugannal) Subject: Manned mission to Venus How about we establish a fund for Mark S. and ship him to Venus at the first available opportunity, since he wants to go so much. As for your comment Mark about Venus having mountains, valleys and even seabeds, what's wrong with Mars? Mars has those. Mars has the largest observed mountain in the solar system. It also has evidence of water on its surface in the form of rivers and lakes. (And of course, you got the "face" :-) Oh, btw, if anyone wants to contribute to the fund, I'd be willing to set up an account. Hmm, how much do you think it would take to ship Mark off? Think the USSR would have room on their next Venera? Greg_d._Moore@mts.rpi.edu ------------------------------ Date: 25 May 90 03:41:19 GMT From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@ucsd.edu (Henry Spencer) Subject: Re: German MIR astronaut In article <1990May24.053807.13115@utzoo.uucp> I wrote: >>A german astronaut is scheduled to make a trip to the Soviet Space >>Station, MIR. I would like to know if the primary and backup >>candidates have been selected yet... > >The mission has only just received political approval from both sides. >I doubt that they are actively looking for candidates yet, much less >finished deciding on a pair. Okay, I may have to eat those words. The May issue of Spaceflight says West Germany has five astronauts currently in training -- Renate Brummer, Ulrich Walter, Gerhard Thiele, Hans Schlegal, and Heike Walpot -- and one of them will fly the Mir mission. Two others will fly on US shuttle missions. The remaining two will serve as backups. Training for Mir is already underway -- mostly learning Russian! -- but there was no clear indication of whether only specific candidates are doing that. -- Life is too short to spend | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology debugging Intel parts. -Van J.| uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu ------------------------------ Date: 24 May 90 05:15:55 GMT From: sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@ucsd.edu (Henry Spencer) Subject: Re: terraforming Venus In article <1830@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: >Doesn't our large moon account for the Earth not having an atmosphere like >Venus? Or at least partially account for it? No. There was a theory to that effect for some years, which has now been quite thoroughly abandoned by the planetary-science community but lives on in a now-badly-dated SF story by Larry Niven. -- Life is too short to spend | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology debugging Intel parts. -Van J.| uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V11 #447 *******************