Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from beak.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Fri, 13 Jul 1990 01:51:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8abK4ji00VcJAKCk4B@andrew.cmu.edu> Precedence: junk Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Fri, 13 Jul 1990 01:50:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPACE Digest V12 #57 SPACE Digest Volume 12 : Issue 57 Today's Topics: Re: NASA's lobbying on the net Re: NASA's lobbying on the net Why drop the shuttle? kids in space Entertaining Space Missions (was Re: Oppose manned Mars exploration) Re: Big Rock Watch Re: buying Soyuzes Re: HST Re: Titan boosters Re: SETI funding cut Administrivia: Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to space+@andrew.cmu.edu. Other mail, esp. [un]subscription notices, should be sent to space-request+@andrew.cmu.edu, or, if urgent, to tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 13 Jul 90 00:48:54 GMT From: uc!shamash!timbuk!sequoia!gbt@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Greg Titus) Subject: Re: NASA's lobbying on the net In article <1293@halifax.nsc.com> alan@spitfire.nsc.com (Alan Hepburn) writes: >In article shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes: >>In article <9007112052.AA24159@ibmpa.paloalto.ibm.com> szabonj@ibmpa.UUCP (Nicholas J. Szabo) writes: >>> >>> ... I strongly disagree that NASA equipment should be used >>> for promoting the agency. >> >>Fine. That's it, I'm out of here. > >I sincerely hope you continue your postings, Mary. I for one have >enjoyed them and have learned a lot from them. ... Wholehearted concurrence. Please stay, Mary. greg -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Titus (gbt@zia.cray.com) Compiler Group (Ada) Cray Research, Inc. Santa Fe, NM Opinions expressed herein (such as they are) are purely my own. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jul 90 07:03:45 GMT From: uoft02.utoledo.edu!fax0112@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: NASA's lobbying on the net In article <9007112052.AA24159@ibmpa.paloalto.ibm.com>, szabonj@ibmpa.UUCP (Nicholas J. Szabo) writes: > > > My site is privately funded. Now, please go back and read my post and > find out why this doesn't matter. I am engaging in neither advertising > nor political lobbying for my company. > > > Mucho thanks to Dave McKissock of NASA for clarifying the legal issues. > I might point out that the use of NASA equipment itself is also at issue. > > The above reference to computing machines and companies is a parable, and > is not a description of or opinion about said entities. My opinions are > not related to those of any organization I am affiliated with. > > (whew! :-) Fine if your site is privately funded is your employer aware that you are using their equipment for you own amusement and do they approve? That is still the use of private resources and like taking paper clips or using the phone unless your employer agrees it is stealing. Robert Dempsey Ritter Observatory ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jul 90 03:50:17 GMT From: zephyr.ens.tek.com!tektronix!percy!3cpu!brycen@beaver.cs.washington.edu (Bryce Nordgren) Subject: Why drop the shuttle? Why have people been insisting that the shuttle be dropped? If we are no longer going to use them, why don't we just kick them off into orbit and strap them to a space station? ((Freedom?)) They could be used for transportation back and forth between stations (in the future), and could very possibly make further moon and/or other trips more practical. After all, if you have a shuttle already in orbit, and have it fueled and ready to go, wouldn't it be a lot more practical to swing by the moon, and maybe drop a landing module conveniently fitted to the cargo bay to the surface than it would be to launch even a probe from the ground? A couple of trips like this, and a "landing strip" could (possibly) be constructed to accommodate the shuttle itself. From there, we could go on to a "grounded" ("mooned?") space station on the surface, etc., etc., etc. How feasible is this idea? I mean, if they *do decide to stop running the shuttles, shouldn't they be put to use as something else? What's the point of having them sitting around doing nothing? I think that this would work, but have no background whatsoever as to *how it might work (with the math and all.) Could somebody estimate how much it would cost (in fuel, time, and dollars.) to make a shuttle run from the planned position of freedom (if that's determined yet) to the moon and back? How about Venus or Mars or the asteroid belt? Does the shuttle have enough range to reach anything not in the earth-moon system? Whoever figures this stuff out should probably add in the mass of the supplies that would be necessary to take along. Thanks in advance for listening to the meandering prattling of a dreamer. ----Brycen ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jul 90 21:15:48 GMT From: aio.jesnet.jsc.nasa.gov!mll@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Mark Littlefield) Subject: kids in space This was forwarded to me by a friend. If there is anyone (especially someone involved with space sciences) who might be interested in participating, please respond to: MATHSCIENCE@VCUVAX.BITNET ----------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 7 Jul 90 00:32 EDT From: MATHSCIENCE@VCUVAX.BITNET Subject: space station 2000 Dear friends, sometime ago, four of you responded to my request and agreed to communicate with our Governor's school children on Space station 2000. It is the summer program for fifth and sixth graders in Richmond area, conducted by the Mathematics and Science Center. In case, you have not had a chance to see the request, I still need some educators who can help me out. Time: 5th graders will be leaving their ideas on July 11. We would like to have some response on July 12 6th graders will be leaving their ideas on July 18. We would like to have some response on July 19. Content of the Program: On july 9th, 40 fifth graders selected from nominations by teachers will have an overview of spacestation Freedom. By the way, I asked them to construct a spacestation after reading the booklet on it from NASA. I have given them the booklets and some materials (25 straws, file folder for card board, 12 craft sticks, 1 yard of aluminum foil, 1/8 lb. clay, and four construction papers.) Only other materials that they can use from home are glue, scissors, and two tubes from paper towel roll. Our space science teacher will critique the space station and would discuss on zero gravity and microgravity. Then they will provide the lights for the cargo bay. (I would have introduced them to TALKTO commands by this time) Second day: We will cover simple machines. Special emphasis will be on gears and pulleys. Then they will build recreation system for the family who lives in space station and a security device for biology experiment. Prior to construction, I would cover Listento commands with sensors. They will also get involved in the cooperative learning activities and discuss in group what they would like to build for final projects. WE ARE NOT BUILDING AN ENTIRE SPACESTATION. We will build one machine or a device that can be used in any one module. We will build different components of space station. Third day: They will share their ideas with educators who are willing to throw some light. We will leave these messages on KIDSNET, EDTECH, and VIRGINIA SCHOOLS NET. Also at this time, we try to grasp more of the gear concept and do simple experiments, data collection, on speed acceleration, and acceleration due to gravity. Fourth day. We hope to receive response back fromencouraging educators. Forty students will act as an expert team and we will design our space station on a 4'X 15' chart. Then the groups will get to their work stations and complete their projects. fifth day: They will finish programming and be ready for their parents by 2p.m. at which time they will be able to explain their projects to the audience. The same process will be continued by the sixth graders from July 16-20. Please help us out and give your feedback on their thoughts and ideas. Example: One group may have an idea for a robotic arm to pick up objects in research lab. They will give a very brief description about it. Time is not enough to design and transfer image files. You may respond to them about what you think about it or may be what other objects they can create. I hope I have made this clear. Thank you for participating in this project. Unfortunately, SPACELINK does not have E-mail and so I did not have any luck there. Manorama Talaiver Mathematics and Science Center 2401 Hartman Street Richmond, VA 23223 804-788-4454 "The peculiar characteristics of learning is that it is a double source of pleasure, an intrinsic joy to him who has the knowledge, and a source of happiness to others that benefit by it." From Thirukural, a poetic composition of great antiquity in Tamil literature existing from second century A.D. ===================================================================== Mark L. Littlefield | Standard disclamer internet: mll@aio.jesnet.jsc.nasa.gov | "Blah, blah, blah..." USsnail: Lockheed Engineering and Sciences | 2400 Nasa Rd 1 / MS 19 | Houston, TX 77258 | "Don't guess...unless you have to. The universe is uncertain enough as it is..." - The DOCTOR - LOGOPOLIS ==================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jul 90 22:35:45 GMT From: usc!hacgate!aic!yamauchi@ucsd.edu (Brian Yamauchi) Subject: Entertaining Space Missions (was Re: Oppose manned Mars exploration) In article <4b8cb1b7.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM> rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) writes: > >Anyone who proposes an American manned space-presence should, I think, >be willing to guarantee steady financial profits, or failing that, to >have a detailed script for how the program will entertain. Entertainment >must be continuous; promises of One Big Entertaining Event 20 years from >now wouldn't wash. One uniquely entertaining event per month would suffice, >I think. If either profits or entertainment could be guaranteed, then >political backing of the high cost of the program would be assured. How about a manned expedition to the Jovian system? Between Jupiter and its moons, you could have a multitude of unique, spectacular events. ("That concludes our broadcast from the volcanoes of Io -- tune in text week for the search for life on Europa.") Of course, we are talking about _high_ costs here... >Note the above diatribe isn't how I wish matters were, just how I perceive >them to be. Need I add that I'm a cynic? ______________________________________________________________________________ Brian Yamauchi Hughes Research Laboratories yamauchi@aic.hrl.hac.com Artificial Intelligence Center ______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jul 90 11:34:53 GMT From: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ark1!nems!blackjack!telnet@ucsd.edu (Michael Hart) Subject: Re: Big Rock Watch In <9007112125.AA26675@ibmpa.paloalto.ibm.com> szabonj@ibmpa.UUCP (Nicholas J. Szabo) writes: >Off the news wire (July 10): > PASADENA, Calif. (AP) -- An asteroid sped past Earth at a >comparatively tiny distance of 3 million miles today, scientists said. > The asteroid, estimated at 300 feet to 1,000 feet in diameter, made >one of the closest crossings of Earth orbit observed in 50 years, the Jet >[stuff deleted] >It is going 22,000 mph relative to Earth, and as a WAG (+- 200%) >masses 13 million tons. Such a collision with Earth would >release 1.5e17 (150 thousand trillion) calories of energy. >I guess two weeks warning time is more than the dinosaurs had. :-) Can anyone give an approximation of what would happen if a rock this size were to impact the earth, releasing the above mentioned amount of energy? Besides the 'tidal waves, earthquake' etc. type of stuff, what might the realistic effects of such a collision be? Ever read "Lucifer's Hammer" ? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael G. Hart hart@blackjack.dt.navy.mil / mhart@dtrc.dt.navy.mil DTRC/DoD | "Wherever you go, there you are."- me DISCLAIMER: If you want the Navy's opinion, talk to Secretary Cheney. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael G. Hart hart@blackjack.dt.navy.mil / mhart@dtrc.dt.navy.mil DTRC/DoD | "Wherever you go, there you are."- me DISCLAIMER: If you want the Navy's opinion, talk to Secretary Cheney. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jul 90 20:31:16 GMT From: mojo!SYSMGR%KING.ENG.UMD.EDU@mimsy.umd.edu (Doug Mohney) Subject: Re: buying Soyuzes In article , dlbres10@pc.usl.edu (Fraering Philip) writes: >It would also be very bad form with all of the private launch system >proposals floating around the US (Pacific American's Phoenix, Third >Millenium's Space Van) for NASA to just go ahead and help entrench >someone else's government-owned launch business. None of them have proposed a heavy-launch capability, have they? Or have a demonstrated (not proven, but demonstrated) launch capability for heavy lift? The Sovs have that capability, so it isn't "entrenching" anyone. >Also, imagine if NASA went ahead and started contracting massive >amounts of computer construction to the Japanese government when >there were private companies here (or even private companies in >Japan) capable of doing the job. Huh? Glask-cosmos or whatever it is called can be considered a "private" company. Just like people come up to NASA for launching their communication satellites. I suppose many countries are scandalized they went to the U.S. government instead of a private company to launch their comsats. Business is business... ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jul 90 21:37:25 GMT From: psuvm!wtu@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu Subject: Re: HST Can somebody tell me why the HST is not shoot to the geostationary orbit? Other than political reasons that NASA want to use shuttle for HST, so they get two birds with one stone. Is there any fundemental scientific reasons that the HST should be at the orbit it is right now rather than a higher one? Thanks :-) ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jul 90 23:26:48 GMT From: ox.com!itivax!vax3.iti.org!aws@CS.YALE.EDU (Allen W. Sherzer) Subject: Re: Titan boosters In article <138835@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> fiddler@concertina.Sun.COM (Steve Hix) writes: >> Lots of people have gone up on Titans and they did OK. > >Those were with Titan IIs, no SRBs. The strap-ons might make a difference. You mean SRB's like on the Shuttle? :-) Allen | | In War: Resolution | | Allen W. Sherzer | In Defeat: Defiance | | aws@iti.org | In Victory: Magnanimity | | | In Peace: Good Will | ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jul 90 21:36:31 GMT From: bacchus.pa.dec.com!deccrl!decvax.dec.com!zinn!ubbs-nh!siia!drd@decwrl.dec.com (David Dick) Subject: Re: SETI funding cut In <37441@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> gwh@earthquake.Berkeley.EDU (George William Herbert) writes: >[paraphrased from an article in San Fransisco Chronicle] >The House of Representatives cut all funding for the SETI >project in next year's budget. Following a tirade by >Rep. Ronald K. Machtley, R-R.I. and Rep. Silvio O. Conte, >R-Mass., the funding was cut from 6.1 million (NASA >has asked for 12.1) to zero. The house action was preceded >by a presentation of tabloid alien articles and a reference >to the SCOTI: Search for COngressional Intelligence . Another example of the verb "to proxmire". David Dick ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V12 #57 *******************