Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from hogtown.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Thu, 7 Feb 91 01:54:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0bgDaSK00WBwAH6041@andrew.cmu.edu> Precedence: junk Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Thu, 7 Feb 91 01:54:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: SPACE Digest V13 #125 SPACE Digest Volume 13 : Issue 125 Today's Topics: Space probe memory NASA Prediction Bulletins, Part 2 Re: space news from Dec 17 AW&ST Re: space news from Dec 17 AW&ST Administrivia: Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to space+@andrew.cmu.edu. Other mail, esp. [un]subscription requests, should be sent to space-request+@andrew.cmu.edu, or, if urgent, to tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail Date: Sat, 2 Feb 91 23:41:14 EST From: John Roberts Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology formerly National Bureau of Standards Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are those of the sender and do not reflect NIST policy or agreement. To: space@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Space probe memory >From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) >Subject: Re: Satalite/IS Probe manual >Date: 29 Jan 91 04:28:54 GMT >In article <1991Jan22.154422.4855@d.cs.okstate.edu> rjs@d.cs.okstate.edu (Roland Stolfa) writes: >... >>3. I seem to remember that some of the earlier space probes had >> core memory and 9-track tape players in them. Are current probes >> still using this kind of stuff for some "hardening" reason, or is >> it out of vogue? >Magtape is still in use, although I don't think modern birds -- ones designed >today, that is, bearing in mind that some old designs are still in use -- are >still using core. NASA has been persistently interested in solid-state >replacements for magtape, since tape recorders are historically a reliability >trouble area, but none has yet flown that I know of. Space qualification >requires very high reliability and considerable radiation resistance. The most recent probes I'm aware of with magnetic main memory are the Voyagers (plated wire). It's evidently a robust design, but susceptible to single-bit errors, as is semiconductor memory. Galileo, Magellan, HST, etc. all use semiconductor memory. I believe it was announced that there are plans to fly a writable optical disk system soon. That should be interesting - the maximum permitted number of write cycles may be a major factor in determining their utility. John Roberts roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov ------------------------------ Date: 2 Feb 91 03:13:53 GMT From: udecc.engr.udayton.edu!blackbird!tkelso@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (TS Kelso) Subject: NASA Prediction Bulletins, Part 2 The most current orbital elements from the NASA Prediction Bulletins are carried on the Celestial BBS, (513) 427-0674, and are updated several times weekly. Documentation and tracking software are also available on this system. As a service to the satellite user community, the most current of these elements are uploaded weekly to sci.space. This week's elements are provided below. The Celestial BBS may be accessed 24 hours/day at 300, 1200, or 2400 baud using 8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity. - Current NASA Prediction Bulletins #804b - Meteor 3-3 1 20305U 89 86 A 91 31.55144660 .00000043 00000-0 99999-4 0 3176 2 20305 82.5523 56.9498 0017425 117.3956 242.8948 13.15938342 60988 COBE 1 20322U 89 89 A 91 27.01583194 .00000468 00000-0 32450-3 0 2452 2 20322 99.0216 40.1855 0009834 108.3605 251.8633 14.02954917 60879 Kvant-2 1 20335U 89 93 A 91 31.89356815 .00109991 00000-0 11272-2 0 5610 2 20335 51.6111 258.1553 0025368 188.5373 171.4444 15.63713946 67483 GPS BII-05 1 20361U 89 97 A 91 13.51461900 .00000013 00000-0 99999-4 0 1248 2 20361 55.0128 132.0170 0064443 58.5593 302.0420 2.00584453 7947 SPOT 2 1 20436U 90 5 A 91 31.68300400 .00001129 00000-0 54786-3 0 4748 2 20436 98.7119 107.9753 0001067 84.3060 275.8248 14.20038519 53174 UO-14 1 20437U 90 5 B 91 31.19828229 .00000561 00000-0 23797-3 0 2946 2 20437 98.6803 111.4351 0010496 208.4668 151.6024 14.28864207 53427 UO-15 1 20438U 90 5 C 91 29.23760533 .00000387 00000-0 17031-3 0 1851 2 20438 98.6810 109.4134 0009673 211.6706 148.3913 14.28528743 53136 PACSAT 1 20439U 90 5 D 91 31.10198489 .00000548 00000-0 23295-3 0 1911 2 20439 98.6841 111.5832 0010749 205.7648 154.3004 14.28960492 53415 DO-17 1 20440U 90 5 E 91 31.50965020 .00000615 00000-0 25894-3 0 1901 2 20440 98.6859 112.0239 0010703 207.6418 152.4199 14.29023738 53473 WO-18 1 20441U 90 5 F 91 31.48500849 .00000540 00000-0 22875-3 0 1906 2 20441 98.6866 112.0427 0011529 207.7506 152.3067 14.29096586 53471 LO-19 1 20442U 90 5 G 91 31.11663504 .00000539 00000-0 22813-3 0 1905 2 20442 98.6848 111.7143 0011878 206.2388 153.8197 14.29170155 53422 GPS BII-06 1 20452U 90 8 A 91 13.90396454 .00000004 00000-0 99999-4 0 1506 2 20452 54.4617 247.3925 0057932 53.1036 307.5176 2.00552516 7077 MOS-1B 1 20478U 90 13 A 91 29.19675338 .00000476 00000-0 37970-3 0 4921 2 20478 99.1652 103.1889 0000908 121.8748 238.2503 13.94849989 49643 DEBUT 1 20479U 90 13 B 91 24.44466569 .00000030 00000-0 11733-3 0 1819 2 20479 99.0194 33.9455 0540075 267.2471 86.6733 12.83168463 45122 FO-20 1 20480U 90 13 C 91 14.00153565 .00000062 00000-0 18958-3 0 1777 2 20480 99.0174 25.4880 0540619 291.0398 63.3713 12.83165137 43782 MOS-1B R/B 1 20491U 90 13 D 91 26.07812574 -.00000185 00000-0 -32404-3 0 1940 2 20491 99.0156 45.1777 0470241 228.8143 127.1490 13.02795454 45424 LACE 1 20496U 90 15 A 91 29.77955018 .00012386 00000-0 68255-3 0 4083 2 20496 43.0945 155.0345 0018386 329.7750 30.2201 15.13811836 52901 RME 1 20497U 90 15 B 91 30.39046445 .00022717 00000-0 51601-3 0 4546 2 20497 43.1035 74.0021 0018636 33.6939 326.5122 15.42419749 53848 Nadezhda 2 1 20508U 90 17 A 91 30.99478439 .00000151 00000-0 14964-3 0 2513 2 20508 82.9507 251.9279 0046159 72.6115 288.0164 13.73262136 46272 OKEAN 2 1 20510U 90 18 A 91 29.85750374 .00002572 00000-0 38689-3 0 4141 2 20510 82.5247 248.8383 0017905 258.8040 101.1403 14.74047312 49458 INTELSAT-6 1 20523U 90 21 A 91 30.07588174 -.00004526 00000-0 -33434-3 0 4441 2 20523 28.3368 216.1654 0014058 94.9850 265.2332 15.03058152 48614 GPS BII-07 1 20533U 90 25 A 91 13.31870982 -.00000033 00000-0 99999-4 0 1214 2 20533 55.1808 7.4642 0033396 100.6704 259.7261 2.00561464 5811 PegSat 1 20546U 90 28 A 91 29.34648896 .00016535 00000-0 93686-3 0 4108 2 20546 94.1394 335.7033 0138381 236.6759 122.1357 15.05114827 44042 HST 1 20580U 91 30.97664680 .00005502 00000-0 59870-3 0 3970 2 20580 28.4720 238.7784 0005695 328.9670 31.0686 14.86069060 41873 Glonass 44 1 20619U 90 45 A 91 32.16368111 -.00000017 00000-0 99999-5 0 3621 2 20619 65.0232 31.0926 0023350 219.5225 140.3253 2.13102870 5500 Glonass 45 1 20620U 90 45 B 91 31.34303340 -.00000017 00000-0 99999-4 0 3703 2 20620 65.0226 31.1309 0007009 18.1828 341.8565 2.13102776 5493 Glonass 46 1 20621U 90 45 C 91 32.34023467 -.00000017 00000-0 99999-4 0 3085 2 20621 65.0382 31.0938 0013501 211.9860 147.9407 2.13102383 5514 Kristall 1 20635U 90 48 A 91 31.89358103 .00064788 00000-0 67115-3 0 3606 2 20635 51.6050 258.1668 0024994 186.4351 173.6040 15.63680094 38360 ROSAT 1 20638U 90 49 A 91 31.43097509 .00005517 00000-0 46701-3 0 1779 2 20638 52.9829 116.6498 0011963 296.8629 63.1375 14.99356804 36501 Meteor 2-19 1 20670U 90 57 A 91 31.62670689 .00000253 00000-0 21869-3 0 1502 2 20670 82.5474 107.3513 0016828 11.6771 348.4782 13.83903515 30114 CRRES 1 20712U 90 65 A 91 31.94613559 .00002448 00000-0 20479-2 0 1228 2 20712 18.1622 329.1495 7128052 344.9703 1.7466 2.43821115 4658 GPS BII-08 1 20724U 90 68 A 91 17.65244694 .00000016 00000-0 99999-4 0 825 2 20724 54.7009 187.6901 0096134 120.3118 240.6221 2.00563386 3343 Feng Yun1-2 1 20788U 90 81 A 91 29.03452870 .00000295 00000-0 22168-3 0 914 2 20788 98.9341 65.4121 0011007 210.8523 149.1999 14.00630033 20723 Meteor 2-20 1 20826U 90 86 A 91 27.02636546 .00000113 00000-0 97685-4 0 986 2 20826 82.5225 50.1544 0011761 278.2089 81.7740 13.83263386 16697 GPS BII-09 1 20830U 90 88 A 91 24.66989278 .00000013 00000-0 99999-4 0 803 2 20830 54.9053 129.7648 0069484 106.0251 254.7656 2.00566502 2568 GPS BII-10 1 20959U 90103 A 91 23.58268576 .00000016 00000-0 99999-4 0 199 2 20959 54.9188 189.0507 0042744 212.9700 146.8569 2.00561915 1137 DMSP B5D2-5 1 20978U 90105 A 91 31.91382992 .00001826 00000-0 69224-3 0 521 2 20978 98.8532 66.3473 0081552 177.3358 182.8288 14.30529080 8767 Soyuz TM-11 1 20981U 90107 A 91 31.89356893 .00063371 00000-0 65415-3 0 683 2 20981 51.6097 258.1518 0027684 186.5440 173.4681 15.63686091 9470 Glonass 47 1 21006U 90110 A 91 31.44084214 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 555 2 21006 64.8361 150.5902 0062121 183.9310 175.9987 2.13102136 1172 Glonass 48 1 21007U 90110 B 91 31.61696108 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 635 2 21007 64.8574 150.6134 0039843 178.2596 181.7350 2.13100238 1175 Glonass 49 1 21008U 90110 C 91 30.56124172 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 546 2 21008 64.8375 150.6338 0009914 296.0367 63.8419 2.13100232 1150 NATO IVA 1 21047U 9101A 91 23.77400469 -.00000129 00000-0 99999-4 0 114 2 21047 4.2477 307.4059 0088793 98.8244 262.4027 1.02085268 148 1991 001B 1 21048U 91 1 B 91 19.05065408 .00000282 00000-0 33050-3 0 92 2 21048 18.4465 262.2862 1190669 105.8215 267.6412 11.84519953 1327 1991 001C 1 21049U 91 1 C 91 29.85090540 -.00000081 00000-0 -15076-2 0 105 2 21049 25.8455 291.4195 7089856 192.1747 131.4045 2.26480129 497 Progress M6 1 21053U 91 2 A 91 31.89360551 .00065680 00000-0 67983-3 0 255 2 21053 51.6056 258.1577 0025401 186.1310 174.0534 15.63681561 2719 ITALSAT-1 1 21055U 91 3 A 91 21.85210606 .00076159 00000-0 11198-1 0 65 2 21055 7.0372 274.3522 7280705 183.5296 167.5079 2.29650145 483 EUTELSAT 1 21056U 91 3 B 91 29.58496208 .00000010 00000-0 99999-4 0 126 2 21056 0.0734 64.0732 0036436 36.8999 259.6591 0.99584331 153 1991 003C 1 21057U 91 3 C 91 27.67684450 .00023520 00000-0 45600-2 0 111 2 21057 6.8995 272.9396 7305245 187.5068 147.6876 2.26005274 606 1991 003D 1 21058U 91 3 D 91 28.78090189 .00081720 00000-0 19608-1 0 131 2 21058 6.8806 274.2454 7262656 186.4676 150.0326 2.30790084 635 Cosmos 2121 1 21059U 91 4 A 91 31.65989605 .00090079 22535-5 14162-3 0 280 2 21059 82.5940 285.2050 0059141 75.0784 285.7058 16.00354757 2285 1990 115F 1 21063U 90115 F 91 25.05194850 .14520583 -60170-5 30771-3 0 234 2 21063 82.5557 256.2363 0001530 223.7210 136.4570 16.47089924 4740 Cosmos 2122 1 21065U 91 5 A 91 31.55464482 .00016208 00000-0 27034-3 0 279 2 21065 65.0156 281.7888 0009881 262.3364 97.6670 15.52086555 2024 1991 005C 1 21067U 91 5 C 91 32.07162155 .00087798 00000-0 13865-2 0 190 2 21067 65.0183 280.0486 0009033 255.5503 104.4851 15.52967252 2109 1990 104E 1 21069U 90104 E 91 32.19285219 .00374758 00000-0 16376-1 0 319 2 21069 82.5080 279.1674 0020183 77.0904 283.0147 15.20231678 9762 1990 104F 1 21070U 90104 F 91 31.73093148 .00385620 00000-0 16899-1 0 295 2 21070 82.5100 279.6279 0013079 75.1235 285.7151 15.20171568 9692 1990 105Z 1 21071U 90105 Z 91 29.89063159 .00163878 00000-0 25604-1 0 114 2 21071 98.8547 66.9828 0166027 180.1512 179.9794 14.63095438 8640 1990 105Q 1 21072U 90105 Q 91 30.56806743 .00281744 00000-0 34289-1 0 128 2 21072 98.8095 68.1686 0156409 175.3666 184.9175 14.73673956 8775 1990 105R 1 21073U 90105 R 91 32.04369347 .00023512 00000-0 78680-2 0 130 2 21073 98.8451 66.7557 0095118 179.2306 181.3468 14.34783056 8806 1990 105S 1 21074U 90105 S 91 29.01356689 .00348199 00000-0 42555-1 0 63 2 21074 98.7196 65.6571 0161076 186.0966 174.0156 14.72708903 8523 1990 105T 1 21075U 90105 T 91 30.06169286 .01429533 00000-0 46437-1 0 73 2 21075 98.7780 69.8491 0146452 166.0223 194.6506 15.17388791 8251 1990 105U 1 21076U 90105 U 91 30.12410012 .00686825 00000-0 61284-1 0 61 2 21076 98.7236 67.4104 0132227 183.5292 177.7616 14.86207907 7895 1990 105V 1 21077U 90105 V 91 31.51383102 .00106968 00000-0 16048-1 0 158 2 21077 98.8406 68.8939 0175819 175.6001 184.7211 14.64071601 8156 1990 105W 1 21078U 90105 W 91 30.05358605 .00108482 00000-0 19430-1 0 91 2 21078 98.8604 66.7779 0175590 183.8853 176.1312 14.56664037 8641 1990 105X 1 21079U 90105 X 91 31.55825522 .00160448 00000-0 23452-1 0 72 2 21079 98.8500 68.9964 0152037 176.1673 184.2762 14.67245806 7978 1990 105Y 1 21080U 90105 Y 91 31.62268801 .00012419 00000-0 45384-2 0 144 2 21080 98.8641 66.1191 0082247 179.2071 180.9510 14.31208893 8723 1990 104H 1 21081U 90104 H 91 32.19154960 .00379220 00000-0 16449-1 0 120 2 21081 82.5095 279.1634 0021119 71.8529 288.5240 15.20451371 9761 1990 104J 1 21083U 90104 J 91 29.68922383 .00321665 00000-0 14837-1 0 66 2 21083 82.4993 281.6378 0016555 82.2131 278.0970 15.18656458 9387 1991 006A 1 21087U 91 32.47108372 .00000525 00000-0 54376-3 0 53 2 21087 82.9490 334.1385 0034162 277.8354 81.8925 13.74338076 400 1991 006B 1 21088U 91 6 B 91 30.28617619 .00030302 00000-0 31016-1 0 34 2 21088 82.9465 335.7564 0027138 280.0489 79.9545 13.75953594 101 -- Dr TS Kelso Assistant Professor of Space Operations tkelso@blackbird.afit.af.mil Air Force Institute of Technology ------------------------------ Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail Date: 2 Feb 91 06:19:27 GMT From: snorkelwacker.mit.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utzoo!henry@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (Henry Spencer) Organization: U of Toronto Zoology Subject: Re: space news from Dec 17 AW&ST References: <6341@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, <9101211340.AA15429@iti.org>, <1991Jan24.170524.4957@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov> Sender: space-request@andrew.cmu.edu To: space@andrew.cmu.edu In article <1991Jan24.170524.4957@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov> cornutt@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt) writes: >... By the time all the necessary junk was added, I'm not >sure the Delta would even have enough payload capacity left to do >anything useful. You'd have to add a lot of weight to make that happen. The low-orbit payload capacity of a current Delta is comparable to that of the Titan variant used for Gemini. We ought to be able to build lighter capsules. >[93.9%] Although it's hard to quantify due to the small sample >size, the Shuttle over several hundred flights should do substantially >better than that ... Evidence? The USAF historical database pegs the failure rate for single large segmented solid rockets at about 4%, although that includes a lot of "early debugging" failures and 2% might be better for "mature" designs. That's a 4% failure rate per shuttle mission (two SRBs, remember). Then figure in the SSME failure rate, which independent guesswork has put at perhaps 1-2% per mission. (There has already been one non-catastrophic SSME failure.) Then add in whatever else you think appropriate. How is the shuttle supposed to do "substantially better"? >...I daresay that if it didn't, it would be canned pronto. This is indeed a distinct possibility, especially now that replacement orbiter production has been abandoned. >>This calls into question the entire 'man rating' process. Why add all that >>expense when it doesn't add to safety? > >Because it does. Just to make the thing man-capable at all is a >substantial expense. If the manned program had failure rates >no better than the unmanned launchers, there would be no manned >program (at least not in the U.S.) today. But today's manned program *doesn't* have failure rates better than the unmanned launchers. And this does indeed endanger the program. -- "Maybe we should tell the truth?" | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology "Surely we aren't that desperate yet." | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail Date: Mon, 4 Feb 91 08:53:30 -0500 From: "Allen W. Sherzer" To: space+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: space news from Dec 17 AW&ST Newsgroups: sci.space In-Reply-To: <1991Feb2.061927.23781@zoo.toronto.edu> References: <6341@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> <9101211340.AA15429@iti.org> <1991Jan24.170524.4957@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov> Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow Cc: In article <1991Feb2.061927.23781@zoo.toronto.edu> Henry Spencer writes: || If the manned program had failure rates no better than the unmanned || launchers, there would be no manned program (at least not in the U.S.) || today. |But today's manned program *doesn't* have failure rates better than the |unmanned launchers. And this does indeed endanger the program. I don't think that endangers the program so much as saves the program. It means we can (if we want) reduce the cost to orbit for both humans and cargo by more than a factor of two with no added risk. The program as it existed just couldn't go on. It was far too expensive because of its reliance on gold-plated one of a kind complex systems. Now that people are focusing on goals and not hardware we stand a chance of getting somewhere. Allen -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Allen Sherzer |A MESSAGE FROM THE ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT TO THE PEOPLE OF KUWAIT: | |aws@iti.org | "If rape is inevitable, enjoy it!" | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V13 #125 *******************