Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from hogtown.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Thu, 21 Feb 91 01:50:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Precedence: junk Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Thu, 21 Feb 91 01:50:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: SPACE Digest V13 #180 SPACE Digest Volume 13 : Issue 180 Today's Topics: ONE SMALL STEP - REPLY Magellan Update - 02/18/91 Cost of Living in a New Frontier Re: Martian mystery? NASA Headline News for 02/19/91 (Forwarded) Administrivia: Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to space+@andrew.cmu.edu. Other mail, esp. [un]subscription requests, should be sent to space-request+@andrew.cmu.edu, or, if urgent, to tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: WED, 20 FEB 91 02:09 CDT From: BARRY BOWDEN To: ALL Subject: ONE SMALL STEP - REPLY In response of Allen Sherzer's article of "One Small Step for a Space Activist ..." It appears that the commercial procurement system, as used for the so called 'Zenith Star" proposal of sending a payload into LEO was successful because it allowed a commercial contractor to come up with a solution for a HLV that would cost less than the proposed 10B dollars NASA is proposing. Why can't NASA put more of its projects into the commercial procurement system? Is it afraid it will not have as much control over the projects it turns over to commercial interests? Would this not stimulate commercial interests into getting into space and make getting into space less expensive over the next 10-20 years? I also saw in my local paper a picture of the proposed new space station. It seems like another company out of Denver (OSI??) has been developing a similiar approach using external tanks (ETs) as the living/work modules and an instrument package on one end. It seems like NASA would be better off designing the truss/instrument/ power part of the truss as a backbone, then let OSI?? use the ET and sell a conversion package to convert the ET into whatever module is needed. It would seem that this would take fewer shuttle flights and less money to put a station into orbit. Also, the whole space station package could be sold to other nations/interests as an 'inexpensive' means of using a space staion. They could be sold or leased by NASA and provide some money back into the space stations to help pay for costs and expenses. Note: Credit for "One small Step ..." should go to Allen Sherzer and Tim Kyger. PS. If this sounds like a good idea, how do I forward this to NASA?? BB Barry Bowden CSER037@UABTUCC.BITNET ------------------------------ Date: 19 Feb 91 03:44:35 GMT From: elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!mars.jpl.nasa.gov!baalke@decwrl.dec.com (Ron Baalke) Subject: Magellan Update - 02/18/91 MAGELLAN STATUS REPORT February 18, 1991 The Magellan spacecraft is performing nominally. All STARCALS (star calibrations) and DESATS (desaturations) during the weekend were successful. The spacecraft temperatures remained stable, some slightly lower. Battery #1 is peaking at 24.8 degrees C. The gyroscopes are at 68.5 degrees C. The gyros are in a compartment which is still picking up some reflected sunlight from the solar panels and will probably be the last area to see temperatures drop as we move away from the period of maximum solar heating during the mapping pass. ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@mars.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | Is it mind over matter, ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |___ M/S 301-355 | or matter over mind? /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | Never mind. |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | It doesn't matter. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Feb 91 22:29:28 GMT From: zephyr.ens.tek.com!tektronix!sequent!crg5!szabo@beaver.cs.washington.edu (Nick Szabo) Subject: Cost of Living in a New Frontier In article <2_-&*}^@rpi.edu> mvk@itsgw.rpi.edu (Michael V. Kent) writes: [Responding to my answer to the query re: cost of living in a new frontier] > >I don't know much about the cost of ancient caravels, but I think I know >I little about the cost of Freedom. Your numbers are a little of, I think. >Correct me if I am wrong, but the FY91 budget for Freedom was about $1.8G, >and the estimated GNP is about $5.5 trillion. That puts the cost of Freedom >at 0.033% of GNP / 4 persons = 0.0082% GNP / person. Or 1/122 % of GNP/person. >This puts it at 4 times as costly as a caravel if your Portugese numbers are >correct. Significant, but not three orders of magnitude. You are wrong, and shall be corrected. :-) My figures for both Fred and the caravels are for total costs per person, not cost/year and certainly not mere paper design costs. GNP is a way to compare the costs to the ability of society to pay for it. The caravel mean lifetimes and projected Fred lifetime are both around 20-50 years (if Fred ever becomes more than stacks of paper and lives up to its promises, that is), so per year can be factored out. The total cost of Fred is projected at $30 billion. ($30e9+historical NASA overuns)/$5.5e12 ~= 1% or 1/4% per person. Two orders of magnitude difference in %GNP/crew costs. Adjusting for the number of taxpayers (20 million vs. 220 million) that gives us three orders of magnitude difference. One final difference is the most significant -- spice trade paid for the caravels; taxpayers pay for Fred. > 1) Freedom has been in the design stage for only about three years. Huh? Fred was announced in 1983, and much design work was carried on even before that during the 70's and 80's. Space station design work was also done on the USAF MOL in the 60's and Skylab in the 70's. Fred has been shuffling paper for so long people have forgotten when it started. :-( >So far, about $3.7 billion have been spent on it. Parts fabrication is to >begin in about one year. More for paper and CAD files than the cost of 10 communications satellites. I'm so proud. >That is not out of line with other major aerospace >projects, even those that do no leave the atmosphere. The subject was the cost of living in new frontiers, not the cost of other aerospace projects. But on the latter point, $3.7 billion is near the all-time high -- up there with Apollo adjusted for inflation -- on pre-prototype design costs for civilian aerospace projects. Also, it is ridiculous to spend the same amount of R&D on something that will serve millions of customers (a modern airplane) who will pay those costs, and something that will serve only a few dozen who won't. >Considering spaceflight >is one or two orders of magnitude more difficult than air flight, If you use manned spaceflight as a measure, this is an understatement: cost/person on a Shuttle flight ($10-$100 million depending on how you want to count it) is at least four orders of magnitude higher than the cost of a trans-Pacific plane ticket ($1,000-$2,000). However, the cost of developing Pegasus was 60 times less than the cost of developing the the MD-100. It just depends what kind of spaceflight you are talking about. >we are >not doing too bad. Manned spaceflight does worse (three orders of magnitude) than De Gama, Columbus and company, which is the answer to the original question. It does worse (four order orders of magnitude) than air flight which is the answer to your question. > 2) The federal government is not in the money-making business. Last time I looked at my paycheck, I noticed this. >... >Nick, I mean this as a polite question: What does your company do. I'd be >surprised if it is an aerospace company. One could infer we make computers. :-) I have extensive knowledge of the space field, economics, business, and history. I have also worked at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory doing Deep Space Network scheduling (for Voyager, Galileo, Magellan, etc.) and took the time to look into many of the different projects (microdevices, Mars Rover, electric propulsion, SP-100, TAU, getaway special probe, laser communications, neural nets,...) going on there and at Caltech. JPL was a life-changing experience for me; among other things I lost my enthusiasm for Fred and contemporary manned spaceflight It was mind-blowing to see a large, bureaucratic project side-by-side with small, innovative projects -- one hell of a contrast. -- Nick Szabo szabo@sequent.com Embrace Change... Keep the Values... Hold Dear the Laughter... ------------------------------ Date: 19 Feb 91 02:01:46 GMT From: phoenix!woodhams@princeton.edu (Michael Woodhams) Subject: Re: Martian mystery? In article kr0u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kevin William Ryan) writes: > The funniest thing I've seen so far was the Weekly World News of >Feb. 19th, where they show some airbrushed shots of the 'Mars face', >claiming that "Scientists have photographed the lips moving!!" [.....] > Of course, they also have had an articles about the Soviet Phobos >(sp?) probe "photographing the entrance to heaven", the ever popular >"Boy with two brains", and others along the line of "Sasquatch seen in >downtown New York posing as a broker." Not only Phobos, but also COBE took photos of heaven. Computer enhancement of the famous DIRBE (diffuse infrared background experiment) picture of the galaxy shows "Greek-style buildings" on either side of the nucleus. 'Other experts, like the German astrophysicist Frank Bauer, believe that the interpretation was accurate and called for an international effort to get a space probe to the area right away. '"The disc is over 28,000 light years away so it's imperative that we move without delay," said Dr. Bauer.' (From the font of all scientific knowledge, the Weekly World News, August 28, 1990, pgs 4-5. In true scientific fashion, they give a reference to the earlier Phobos story, which curiously enough involves a German astrophysicist named Kurt Bauer. Is Bauer a very common German name, or is their random-German-surname-list not very long?) Michael Woodhams. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Feb 91 21:09:11 GMT From: trident.arc.nasa.gov!yee@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Peter E. Yee) Subject: NASA Headline News for 02/19/91 (Forwarded) Headline News Internal Communications Branch (P-2) NASA Headquarters Tuesday, February 19, 1991 Audio Service: 202 / 755-1788 This is NASA Headline News for Tuesday, February 19, 1991 The terminal countdown demonstration test for the STS-39 mission is currently underway at the Kennedy Space Center. The crew arrived at 10:45 am yesterday. The TCDT countdown concludes at 11:00 am tomorrow. Vice President Quayle will arrive at KSC at 10:20 am tomorrow. He will be escorted to the Launch Control Complex where he will address the launch team and the flight crew inside Discovery. The Vice President will be shown the Orbiter Processing Facility and will then speak to KSC emplyees at the Turning Basin. Following that address, Mr. Quayle will hold a short press conference at 12:10. These activities will be shown live on NASA Select TV. The Vice President will leave KSC at 12:45 pm to head for Eglin Air Force Base, Ft. Walton Beach, to address family members of Desert Storm troops. KSC technicians have found cracks on three of four hinges on Discovery's umbilical doors. These doors, one for the liquid oxygen side and one for the liquid hydrogen side, each have two hinges. KSC managers are currently assessing the problem, along with JSC flight management officials. The team is looking at all options including flying as is. One option is to install hinge doublers on top of the cracked hinges to strengthen them. Another option is to roll back to the VAB, destack and demate, and with Discovery in the horizontal position, replacing the hinges. (The hinges can be replaced while the orbiter is in the vertical position, but the doors cannot be cycled to test the hinge.) Because of propellant loading activities planned for Thursday, management expects to have this situation assessed and a plan developed by tomorrow night. Atlantis' orbital maneuvering system pods were tested successfully for electrical redundancy this weekend. That orbiter's next mission is the Gamma Ray Observatory deployment flight scheduled for April. Columbia's Astro-1 payload was removed Friday. Other work on Columbia includes tests of its radar altimeter, main engine pump torque checks, and tests of the hydraulic system. Columbia is scheduled for its next flight on the STS-40 Space Life Sciences Spacelab mission in May. Mobile launcher platform 3 will be moved into VAB high bay 3 next week to begin preparations for stacking for the STS-40 Columbia SLS-1 mission. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Goddard Space Flight Center officials have terminated the contract held by the General Electric Company, Astro-Space Division, Princeton, N. J., for the design, development and test of the Attached Payload Accommodation Equipment element of Space Station Freedom. The contract, signed in 1987, was valued at approximately $555 million. The payload accommodation equipment portion of Freedom was deferred indefinitely from the space station during the early phases of a Congressionally-mandated 90-day restructuring review of the Freedom program. The STS-37 pre-flight mission briefings will be held on Feb. 25 and 26, next Monday and Tuesday. On Feb. 25, at 9 am EST lead flight director Chuck Shaw will provide a mission overview. At 10 am, the Gamma Ray Observatory team will report on the status and mission of the second of the Great Observatories. Following the GRO briefing, investigators will brief on the secondary payloads. At 2 pm, the crew will brief on their flight duties. All briefings except the GRO segment will originate from Johnson Space Center. The GRO briefing will originate from Goddard Space Flight Center. The briefings will be carried live on NASA Select TV. JSC has also planned an extra-vehicular activity workshop for Tuesday, Feb. 26, at 10 am EST. The workshop features a briefing on EVA planning and equipment development and will offer an opportunity to try out the equipment. The workshop will take place in JSC Building 9B, on the air- bearing floor. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Professor Regina McConnell, concert artist and head of the Voice Faculty at Howard University, and Dr. Dudley McConnell, Solar System Exploration Division deputy director for advanced programs, will present "African- American Heritage in Song and Words," to commemorate Black History Month. The presentation will take place at 10:30 am EST, this Thursday in the NASA Headquarters Auditorium. Here's the broadcast schedule for Public Affairs events on NASA Select TV. All times are Eastern. **indicates a live program. Tuesday, 2/19/91 12:00 pm Starfinder program, "Expanding Universe." 12:15 pm NASA Life Sciences Program. 12:30 pm Shuttle Mission Simulator (at Johnson Space Center) Tour. 1:00 pm Total Quality Colloquium replay of Uli Derickson's address. Mrs. Derickson was the flight purser on TWA flight 847 when it was hijacked on the ground. 2:00 pm **JSC Center Director Aaron Cohen hosts "Space Basics" live from Johnson Space Center. Wednesday, 2/20/91 11:30 am **Vice President Dan Quayle addresses employees at the Kennedy Space Center. All events and times may change without notice. This report is filed daily, Monday through Friday, at 12:00 pm, EST. It is a service of Internal Communications Branch at NASA Headquarters. Contact: CREDMOND on NASAmail or at 202/453-8425. NASA Select TV: Satcom F2R, Transponder 13, C-Band, 72 degrees West Longitude, Audio 6.8, Frequency 3960 MHz. ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V13 #180 *******************