Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from hogtown.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Fri, 14 Jun 91 04:53:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4cK8Dz600WBw83dU4Y@andrew.cmu.edu> Precedence: junk Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Fri, 14 Jun 91 04:53:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPACE Digest V13 #643 SPACE Digest Volume 13 : Issue 643 Today's Topics: NASA Prediction Bulletins, Part 1 Re: Terraforming Mars? Why not Venus? Re: Privatization Re: Expedition to the stars (hypothetical) Re: Extra Terrestrial Intelligence Administrivia: Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to space+@andrew.cmu.edu. Other mail, esp. [un]subscription requests, should be sent to space-request+@andrew.cmu.edu, or, if urgent, to tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 May 91 16:07:10 GMT From: udecc.engr.udayton.edu!blackbird.afit.af.mil!tkelso@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (TS Kelso) Subject: NASA Prediction Bulletins, Part 1 The most current orbital elements from the NASA Prediction Bulletins are carried on the Celestial BBS, (513) 427-0674, and are updated several times weekly. Documentation and tracking software are also available on this system. As a service to the satellite user community, the most current of these elements are uploaded weekly to sci.space. This week's elements are provided below. The Celestial BBS may be accessed 24 hours/day at 300, 1200, or 2400 baud using 8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity. - Current NASA Prediction Bulletins #848a - Alouette 1 1 00424U 62B-A 1 91132.01299309 .00000249 00000-0 28823-3 0 4254 2 00424 80.4676 321.8644 0023275 144.8655 215.4028 13.67526151427634 ATS 3 1 03029U 67111 A 91139.68522137 -.00000076 00000-0 99999-4 0 5783 2 03029 13.6124 18.3200 0015622 224.3095 135.5162 1.00272858 86165 Cosmos 398 1 04966U 71 16 A 91143.79857952 .00075806 19776-4 36213-3 0 6254 2 04966 51.4834 66.4165 2023108 98.0487 285.3367 11.60361140630176 Starlette 1 07646U 75010 A 91141.37853229 -.00000020 00000-0 31469-4 0 2758 2 07646 49.8299 264.0333 0206527 227.8725 130.4452 13.82157906822555 LAGEOS 1 08820U 76039 A 91134.29937681 .00000005 00000-0 99999-4 0 2803 2 08820 109.8334 108.5571 0044218 168.0420 192.1055 6.38664278 95080 GOES 2 1 10061U 77048 A 91134.70441287 -.00000247 00000-0 99999-4 0 6243 2 10061 9.0733 58.4995 0106862 36.0864 325.2337 1.00221521 52334 IUE 1 10637U 78012 A 91135.80120171 -.00000178 00000-0 79862-4 0 2765 2 10637 32.8289 113.5041 1403099 2.1583 358.4664 1.00279233 9801 GPS-0001 1 10684U 78020 A 91137.00875038 .00000003 00000-0 99999-4 0 6795 2 10684 63.8826 79.2421 0125897 198.4487 161.0588 2.00553455 82549 GPS-0002 1 10893U 78 47 A 91141.50207984 -.00000021 00000-0 99999-4 0 3894 2 10893 64.2172 319.9352 0172732 24.0957 336.7037 2.00532421 95457 GOES 3 1 10953U 78062 A 91139.99682268 .00000115 00000-0 99999-4 0 1307 2 10953 7.7537 62.2640 0004943 97.2205 262.6941 1.00297005 457 SeaSat 1 1 10967U 78064 A 91143.87850265 .00001387 00000-0 51285-3 0 5468 2 10967 108.0181 303.7464 0002497 232.0397 128.0553 14.36641224675363 GPS-0003 1 11054U 78093 A 91139.74091360 -.00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 4325 2 11054 63.6235 316.0288 0066218 117.9323 242.7430 2.00572042 92437 Nimbus 7 1 11080U 78098 A 91142.71026791 .00000142 00000-0 15749-3 0 7783 2 11080 99.1737 44.5447 0008257 257.9194 102.1030 13.83554448634987 GPS-0004 1 11141U 78112 A 91139.37407654 .00000003 00000-0 99999-4 0 1866 2 11141 64.0014 79.0291 0064162 310.3499 49.0834 2.00544952 91123 GPS-0005 1 11690U 80 11 A 91142.00324541 .00000005 00000-0 99999-4 0 1832 2 11690 64.3638 81.2400 0124596 202.9903 156.4707 2.00551850 97031 GPS-0006 1 11783U 80 32 A 91139.92561657 -.00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 4781 2 11783 63.3108 315.6888 0191600 28.7423 332.3093 2.03456647 81082 GOES 5 1 12472U 81049 A 91142.92518253 .00000139 00000-0 99999-4 0 1332 2 12472 4.3099 71.5387 0002554 302.7243 57.0101 1.00270507 35634 Cosmos 1383 1 13301U 82 66 A 91143.16562318 .00000158 00000-0 17402-3 0 7304 2 13301 82.9301 51.5988 0027242 308.1873 51.6827 13.67921281444153 LandSat 4 1 13367U 82 72 A 91142.69219086 .00000340 00000-0 80264-4 0 8043 2 13367 98.1159 202.6301 0003688 134.6055 225.5445 14.57163650470745 IRAS 1 13777U 83 4 A 91136.01831541 .00000001 00000-0 12992-4 0 9823 2 13777 99.0148 332.4389 0012233 188.9293 171.1654 13.98946187 93475 Cosmos 1447 1 13916U 83 21 A 91140.99160111 .00000150 00000-0 14707-3 0 8275 2 13916 82.9467 122.3405 0036724 280.9451 78.7570 13.74146173409066 TDRS 1 1 13969U 83 26 B 91141.98403459 .00000127 00000-0 99999-4 0 3886 2 13969 5.2953 62.7157 0003249 10.8363 348.9754 1.00275448 2745 GOES 6 1 14050U 83 41 A 91142.91488398 .00000118 00000-0 99999-4 0 4807 2 14050 3.0745 74.1306 0002464 277.8031 81.9102 1.00258574 1549 OSCAR 10 1 14129U 83 58 B 91138.10904151 -.00000109 00000-0 99998-4 0 6743 2 14129 25.8164 145.1928 6022329 242.7457 44.6724 2.05885438 31622 GPS-0008 1 14189U 83 72 A 91139.73301212 .00000002 00000-0 99999-4 0 9761 2 14189 63.5409 77.3150 0142675 225.7182 133.0895 2.00568025 57512 LandSat 5 1 14780U 84 21 A 91142.66024190 .00000428 00000-0 99999-4 0 6642 2 14780 98.2418 203.4499 0006208 8.4917 351.6340 14.57095983384154 UoSat 2 1 14781U 84 21 B 91143.12431457 .00002136 00000-0 38976-3 0 181 2 14781 97.9001 188.8789 0011150 247.8168 112.1813 14.66927289385773 GPS-0009 1 15039U 84 59 A 91139.40827946 .00000002 00000-0 99999-4 0 2317 2 15039 63.2957 76.4271 0029276 226.3926 133.3517 2.00565040 50780 Cosmos 1574 1 15055U 84 62 A 91137.52845510 .00000147 00000-0 14645-3 0 814 2 15055 82.9600 175.8338 0028891 110.5639 249.8630 13.73455441345967 GPS-0010 1 15271U 84 97 A 91139.85212619 -.00000021 00000-0 99999-4 0 793 2 15271 63.0340 314.9594 0113455 333.2057 26.2056 2.00565334 47900 Cosmos 1602 1 15331U 84105 A 91143.76692790 .00003753 00000-0 48454-3 0 5997 2 15331 82.5370 44.7923 0020620 301.6973 58.2190 14.80599139358435 NOAA 9 1 15427U 84123 A 91141.30073129 .00000518 00000-0 29856-3 0 7825 2 15427 99.1698 154.1723 0015804 137.3265 222.9137 14.13005072331726 GPS-0011 1 16129U 85 93 A 91139.57123238 .00000003 00000-0 99999-4 0 7774 2 16129 64.0586 77.6848 0123270 147.0493 213.7114 2.00564916 41101 Mir 1 16609U 86 17 A 91143.71699009 .00035932 00000-0 33979-3 0 4859 2 16609 51.6047 51.3249 0005346 213.1303 146.9772 15.66611000301334 SPOT 1 1 16613U 86 19 A 91142.69322111 .00000616 00000-0 30709-3 0 3431 2 16613 98.6949 217.0746 0000569 6.7524 353.3643 14.20027413112112 Cosmos 1766 1 16881U 86 55 A 91143.34720246 .00003336 00000-0 43847-3 0 4432 2 16881 82.5204 103.8543 0020340 323.2646 36.7141 14.79845576259415 EGP 1 16908U 86 61 A 91139.84078424 -.00000029 00000-0 72116-4 0 3734 2 16908 50.0149 301.0350 0011234 332.9506 27.0745 12.44395120216775 NOAA 10 1 16969U 86 73 A 91136.08819367 .00000740 00000-0 33786-3 0 6300 2 16969 98.5676 161.1067 0014103 25.5480 334.6393 14.24123638241988 MOS-1 1 17527U 87 18 A 91143.21414772 .00000909 00000-0 70152-3 0 8515 2 17527 99.0707 215.7379 0000673 85.3835 274.7393 13.94902216216661 GOES 7 1 17561U 87 22 A 91143.62898965 -.00000050 00000-0 99999-4 0 8365 2 17561 0.1042 60.7995 0012705 307.8258 351.4658 1.00275783 288 Kvant-1 1 17845U 87 30 A 91143.78074973 .00056305 00000-0 52788-3 0 6030 2 17845 51.6040 51.0034 0005161 215.3473 144.5846 15.66625046236075 DMSP B5D2-3 1 18123U 87 53 A 91142.99601222 .00000739 00000-0 40343-3 0 9992 2 18123 98.8142 334.0626 0015060 133.1463 227.0970 14.14593211202435 RS-10/11 1 18129U 87 54 A 91143.92353368 -.00000086 00000-0 -10082-3 0 6551 2 18129 82.9259 76.7869 0010299 252.1445 107.8606 13.72187013196260 Meteor 2-16 1 18312U 87 68 A 91137.68972802 .00000319 00000-0 27850-3 0 6846 2 18312 82.5577 25.1602 0013730 38.5479 321.6657 13.83793899189241 Meteor 2-17 1 18820U 88 5 A 91137.89759054 .00000208 00000-0 17520-3 0 5307 2 18820 82.5401 84.3716 0017994 101.0913 259.2270 13.84482110166490 DMSP B5D2-4 1 18822U 88 6 A 91142.99150855 .00000696 00000-0 33159-3 0 8985 2 18822 98.5976 19.2119 0007137 16.9396 343.2017 14.22023309171108 Glonass 34 1 19163U 88 43 A 91142.42057836 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 3091 2 19163 64.9182 147.8443 0007217 204.6403 155.3506 2.13102431 23376 Glonass 36 1 19165U 88 43 C 91142.47737550 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 3085 2 19165 64.9009 147.8424 0005397 317.8579 42.1249 2.13102650 23373 AO-13 1 19216U 88 51 B 91134.17571525 .00000230 00000-0 99999-4 0 2720 2 19216 56.8159 94.8036 7174466 254.3124 22.1690 2.09695394 22349 OKEAN 1 1 19274U 88 56 A 91143.30002874 .00003184 00000-0 42620-3 0 1458 2 19274 82.5223 202.6731 0023447 91.6065 268.7832 14.79018854155155 Meteor 3-2 1 19336U 88 64 A 91142.19325521 .00000082 00000-0 19560-3 0 7838 2 19336 82.5433 37.5850 0016433 182.8114 177.2920 13.16925089135572 Glonass 39 1 19503U 88 85 C 91142.96661915 -.00000018 00000-0 99999-4 0 2157 2 19503 65.4703 27.1226 0004451 185.4946 174.5435 2.13103253 20872 NOAA 11 1 19531U 88 89 A 91142.27536671 .00000748 00000-0 42789-3 0 5343 2 19531 99.0288 96.8687 0013025 52.1117 308.1236 14.12149633136815 TDRS 2 1 19548U 88 91 B 91139.82553831 .00000114 00000-0 99999-4 0 2731 2 19548 0.9554 79.6770 0002906 2.1002 278.1862 1.00276817 8295 Glonass 40 1 19749U 89 1 A 91142.53877829 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 143 2 19749 64.8614 147.4950 0007821 275.2799 84.6721 2.13101755 18394 Glonass 41 1 19750U 89 1 B 91143.53529357 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 360 2 19750 64.8779 147.4933 0007912 258.9780 100.9649 2.13102213 18412 GPS BII-01 1 19802U 89013 A 91103.54677754 .00000080 00000-0 26739 3 0 02338 2 19802 055.0738 185.5709 0049862 165.7198 194.4554 02.00562574015774 Akebono 1 19822U 89 16 A 91143.84326176 .00032703 00000-0 18077-2 0 273 2 19822 75.1020 69.2541 4081820 0.8496 359.7089 7.29936284 24339 Meteor 2-18 1 19851U 89 18 A 91137.88451758 .00000177 00000-0 14939-3 0 4828 2 19851 82.5219 321.7745 0014644 140.8984 219.3237 13.84133340111869 MOP-1 1 19876U 89 20 B 91 83.49540771 .00000025 00000-0 99999-4 0 1840 2 19876 0.2910 50.4188 0001552 314.1531 355.4087 1.00273956 3471 TDRS 3 1 19883U 89 21 B 91134.46934412 -.00000235 00000-0 99999-4 0 2757 2 19883 0.9655 79.6303 0002738 325.1899 315.2130 1.00274868 78210 GPS BII-02 1 20061U 89 44 A 91103.87321174 -.00000034 00000-0 99999-4 0 2711 2 20061 54.8877 3.6255 0090918 184.4845 175.4971 2.00566450 13525 Nadezhda 1 1 20103U 89 50 A 91137.72937654 .00000142 00000-0 13923-3 0 3804 2 20103 82.9629 38.3935 0036819 184.8442 175.2361 13.73689305 93645 GPS BII-03 1 20185U 89064 A 91104.71060838 -.00000123 00000-0 00000 0 0 01797 2 20185 054.9166 186.3301 0020176 172.0341 188.0316 02.00562496012111 GPS BII-04 1 20302U 89085 A 91106.73331065 -.00000084 00000-0 00000 0 0 01794 2 20302 054.3986 304.6789 0029381 333.0204 026.8604 02.00556152010956 Meteor 3-3 1 20305U 89 86 A 91141.03605711 .00000043 00000-0 99999-4 0 3811 2 20305 82.5583 339.7140 0015536 204.0883 155.9519 13.15954785 75381 -- Dr TS Kelso Assistant Professor of Space Operations tkelso@blackbird.afit.af.mil Air Force Institute of Technology ------------------------------ Date: 26 May 91 09:30:39 GMT From: agate!bionet!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jarthur!nntp-server.caltech.edu!hamlet.caltech.edu!carl@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Lydick, Carl) Subject: Re: Terraforming Mars? Why not Venus? In article <10159@suned1.Nswses.Navy.MIL>, lev@slced1.nswses.navy.mil (Lloyd E Vancil) writes... >"The Snows of Venus" - G. David Nordley - Analog May 1991 >"Then came the project. Mercury had provided the material for the sunshield, >magnetic ore hoppers riding electric launch rails past escape velocity and >breaking in the hundred kilometer tracks laid in trusswork across Venus L1." > >Now there's a vision, a 20,000 km sunshield (umbrella) arranged with an optical >system to provide station keeping... (huh? isn't that a little like the >cartoon sailbaot powered by an electric fan? oh well SF right?) Not quite. The effect of the light pressure gradient is in the right direction, at least (the further from the sun, the lower the pressure). You would, of course, have to have a mass closer to the sun tethered to the sunshield to offset the pressure (not to mention stabilizing the attitude of the sunshield). In principle, there's no reason why such a scheme couldn't work, at least if you added some active components to change the size of the sunshield to aid in stationkeeping. Remember, L1 IS unstable along the axis through the two large bodies, but stable wrt perturbations orthoganal to that axis. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick HEPnet/NSI: SOL1::CARL Internet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU ------------------------------ Date: 26 May 91 18:41:23 GMT From: agate!bionet!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!jarthur!nntp-server.caltech.edu!hamlet.caltech.edu!carl@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Lydick, Carl) Subject: Re: Privatization In article <6492@uafhp.uark.edu>, bmccormi@uafhp.uark.edu (Brian McCormick) writes... >I personally would like to see private industry in space, at least as >an alternative to government programs. However, I am not so blinded >by a love of private industry that I fail to take note of the fact that >private industry is uninterested in space. When the potential to make >an immediate profit in space is already in place, I'm sure private >industry will take an interest. In the meantime, the government will >have to suffice. One problem is that the government doesn't have the institutional attention span to promote private industrialization of space. I don't know how many of the readers of the list remember this, but when the space shuttle program was first funded, one of the goals of the program was to demonstrate that it's possible to build a reliable, cost-effective space transportation system. The idea was that NASA would design such a system, fund the startup of a production line, and fly enough missions to demonstrate that it worked. Private industry was then expected to buy their own shuttles. By the time the pork had been distributed, this goal had somehow disappeared. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick HEPnet/NSI: SOL1::CARL Internet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU ------------------------------ Date: 26 May 91 18:46:31 GMT From: agate!bionet!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!nstn.ns.ca!cs.dal.ca!vanadis@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Jose Castejon-Amenedo) Subject: Re: Expedition to the stars (hypothetical) In article <1991May26.035444.19595@raven.alaska.edu> ejo@ims.alaska.edu (Eric Olson) asks: > If a team of explorers were to hop a ship to a nearby star, what > should they take and why? What: Members of the opposite sex. Why: Apart from the reasons most of us are liable to think about straight away, interstellar travelling would take a long time (barring scientific/engineering breakthroughs). Surely we would like to have a young, fresh generation to do the exploration? I am assuming, of course, that prolongued suspended animation does not work (for all I know it doesn't, for the time being.) Although I have to say that I would not send people, but machines. JCA vanadis@cs.dal.ca ------------------------------ Date: 26 May 91 19:10:48 GMT From: rochester!dietz@rutgers.edu (Paul Dietz) Subject: Re: Extra Terrestrial Intelligence In article <1991May26.030900.20569@nntp-server.caltech.edu> steinly@zeppo.tapir.Caltech.EDU (Steinn Sigurdsson) writes: >>Also, they might preferentially settle stars totally unlike out sun. For >>example, a planet in an open star cluster would be an ideal place for a >>colony. There would be many planetary systems, all within a few light years. >>If these were setteled first, it might be quite a while before anyone bothered >>with a single star system. > >Open clusters would be fairly bad for a civilization with a long term >view, too violent and too short lived. If the halo population has >planets it would be the best bet, although the stars may be too red >and dim. In either case there are plenty of second generation G >dwarfs, and we _know_ they can suffice. As a mechanism for slowing a colonization wave, open star clusters fail; they could be filled by exponential growth in short order. Open clusters have an interesting feature: they are fairly young (< 1 billion years?), so they should contain much more radioactive material. In particular, they should retain more of their U-235 (halflife ~.7 GY), and the uranium should have a higher U-235/U-238 ratio. If the initial isotope ratio were anything like Earth's, a very young solar system's uranium would be nearly bomb grade, right out of the mine (unless too heavily contaminated with U-236). In an extremely young solar system, there might be mineable Pu-244 or Cm-247. Paul F. Dietz dietz@cs.rochester.edu ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V13 #643 *******************