Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 05:08:31 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V15 #190 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Sat, 12 Sep 92 Volume 15 : Issue 190 Today's Topics: Arstrong's Boots (2 msgs) Debunking Modern Myths (was Re: Is NASA really...) Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars? (5 msgs) Jupiter's Magnetic Field Shaped by Solar Wind Magellan Update - 09/11/92 NOAA Technical reports list? One small step for a space act. vol 3 no 9 One Small Step for a Space Activist... Vol 3 No 9 (3 msgs) Shuttle Replacement (was: One Small Step...) Terraforming Terraforming Mars Terraforming needs to begin now Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 11 Sep 92 19:20:53 GMT From: George Hastings Subject: Arstrong's Boots Newsgroups: sci.space gkm@cc.uow.edu.au writes: > I was aked today a question by someone who hadn't even thought of all of the useful things I know about the moon. A typical non scientist! He asked me "What material was used to make Neil Armstron's boots?" He needed the answer for a lecture on ?? and was serious in his request. > > I don't know where on earth to look. Does anyone out there know the answer? > > gkm@cc.uow.edu.au > Science Centre > Fax: 61-42-213151 I'm assuming that Armstrong wore the standard, custom-fitted, hand-made Apollo Lunar EVA boots made by Hamilton-Standard. If so, then the regular space suit boots were protected by special overshoes for extra layers of insulation. (The astronuats called them their "little blue booties!") The blue silicone rubber soles formed the bottom, and curved up around the sides all around for three inches. The white outer top layer was "beta-cloth", made from Teflon-coated fiberglass cloth. Inside that, there were multiple, alternating layers of non-woven dacron and aluminized mylar plastic. There was also a sole insert of felt, I don't know what material. -- ------------------------------ Date: 11 Sep 92 21:12:14 GMT From: SCOTT I CHASE Subject: Arstrong's Boots Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Sep11.192053.15875@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu>, ghasting@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu (George Hastings) writes... >gkm@cc.uow.edu.au writes: > I was aked today a question by >someone who hadn't even thought of all of the useful things I >know about the moon. A typical non scientist! He asked me "What >material was used to make Neil Armstron's boots?" He needed the >answer for a lecture on ?? and was serious in his request. > > Haven't you followed the "Heavy Boots" thread? Your friend probably thinks that Armstrong would have floated away when trying to walk on the moon if his boots weren't heavy enough. That leads to the natural question "What *were* his boots made of, anyway?" -Scott -------------------- Scott I. Chase "The question seems to be of such a character SICHASE@CSA2.LBL.GOV that if I should come to life after my death and some mathematician were to tell me that it had been definitely settled, I think I would immediately drop dead again." - Vandiver ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:25:36 GMT From: Paul Dietz Subject: Debunking Modern Myths (was Re: Is NASA really...) Newsgroups: sci.space In article tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes: > Let's see: China and India are hovering on the raged edge of > subsistance right now. Most of Africa is one meal away from > starvation. -- Why that means that more than half of the world is > bearly producing enough food to exist and no more. China and India are better fed than they have ever been. Over the last 15 years, China's per capita economic growth rate has been the highest in the world. The private sector there is now about as large as the public (not bad in a nominally communist country!) and growing explosively, with double digit annual growth rates. India's economic growth has been slower, but they appear to be finally loosening their stifling bureaucracy. The world food problem is mostly one of having adequate purchasing power (there is more than enough food on the market, as witnessed by world food prices that have nearly continually fallen with time.) The number of undernourished people in the world is actually *decreasing*. Nearly the only part of the world that has really serious problems is Africa, but that is not because of overpopulation. Africa could feed many times its current population if they did not suffer from criminally dysfunctional governments and other social problems. Did you know that in his later years, Malthus became one of the first anti-Malthusians? Paul F. Dietz dietz@cs.rochester.edu ------------------------------ Date: 11 Sep 92 19:24:44 GMT From: "Thomas H. Kunich" Subject: Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars? Newsgroups: sci.space In article <136017@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> roberts@phoenix.ocf.llnl.gov (Don Roberts) writes: > >Haven't we had about enough of this [Malthusianism--ed.]in the last 200 >years?? Ever since Malthus first came up with the idea, we've been in >Imminent Peril of choking the planet with people. Fortunately, there have >been enough people (!) cleverer than ol' Tom that we've managed well enough. >Try telling the people in Singapore, Japan, or Taiwan that high population >densities guarantee abject poverty and starvation. Ever stop to think there >might be more to it than that? > Let's see: China and India are hovering on the raged edge of subsistance right now. Most of Africa is one meal away from starvation. -- Why that means that more than half of the world is bearly producing enough food to exist and no more. Argentina, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States are producing significant surpluses of food, yet not enough to supply the rest of the world in a single bad harvest year. Direct extropolation of the world's population shows a doubling in the next 50 years. With, presently, only some 25% of the world's population having good and sufficient food it leaves me wondering how wrong Malthus was. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 19:51:23 GMT From: "Thomas H. Kunich" Subject: Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars? Newsgroups: sci.space In article pgf@srl07.cacs.usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering) writes: B >> (something about 'containing' a nuclear explosion being poppycock.)nt. > >Ever wonder what underground nuclear testing did? In this identical vein, atmospheric nuclear explosions were contained by the atmosphere. > > ------------------------------ Date: 11 Sep 92 20:37:16 GMT From: Don Roberts Subject: Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars? Newsgroups: sci.space In article tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes: >Let's see: China and India are hovering on the raged edge of subsistence >right now. Most of Africa is one meal away from starvation. -- Why that means >that more than half of the world is bearly producing enough food to exist >and no more. Ah yes, we use the examples of two nations with incredibly corrupt and inefficient systems of political economy, and a continent that's been wracked by tribal and civil warfare, and assume the whole planet acts that way. Very good. Anyway, you're stats on China and India are out of date. Since privatising agricultural production in the last ten years, China is doing quite nicely, food-wise (Tanks-over-protesters-wise is another story). The Indians are falling all over themselves at the moment discovering new ways to free up their market and generate wealth. The fall of the Congress Party from power following Rajiv Ghandi's assassination may turn out to be one of the best things that ever happened to India (it's tragic personal dimension aside). As for Africa, any discussion of famine in places like Ethiopia, Somalia, etc. that doesn't take into account the political roots of the problem is hopelessly naive. By the way, whether or not you agree with my interpretation, the mere fact that I can plausibly cite factors other than population as proximate causes for famine demonstrates that Malthus oversimplified. >Argentina, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States are producing >significant surpluses of food, yet not enough to supply the rest of the >world in a single bad harvest year. Let's not forget Europe, which is awash in EC price-supported grain. Interesting that the places that have the *least* problem with food shortages have the *most* advanced technology--and free(ish) markets. Wonder what Malthus would say? >Direct extrapolation of the world's population shows a doubling in the >next 50 years. Direct extrapolation?? What about the falling in birth rates in developed countries? The trick is technological and economic development, not forcing Africans at gunpoint not to have babies. >With, presently, only some 25% of the world's population having good and >sufficient food it leaves me wondering how wrong Malthus was. Well, since we've ticked China over into the "plenty-o-food" category, that makes it more like 50%. India's not in such bad shape (certainly not by Malthusian standards), so there's another 15% or so. Let's call it 65-70%. Could be better (and will be), but it's not the End of The World. Malthus was a boob. No, that's not fair. *He* didn't know any better. -- Dr. Donald W. Roberts University of California Physicist Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Recreational Bodybuilder dwr@llnl.gov Renaissance Dude ------------------------------ Date: 11 Sep 92 20:34:36 GMT From: Doug Mohney Subject: Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars? Newsgroups: sci.space In article , tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes: >In article <136017@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> roberts@phoenix.ocf.llnl.gov (Don Roberts) writes: >> >>Haven't we had about enough of this [Malthusianism--ed.]in the last 200 >>years?? Ever since Malthus first came up with the idea, we've been in >>Imminent Peril of choking the planet with people. Fortunately, there have >>been enough people (!) cleverer than ol' Tom that we've managed well enough. >>Try telling the people in Singapore, Japan, or Taiwan that high population >>densities guarantee abject poverty and starvation. Ever stop to think there >>might be more to it than that? >> >Let's see: China and India are hovering on the raged edge of subsistance >right now. The chinese would find your assessment quite funny. No one starving over there. Everyone has enough money to spoil the (one) child permitted under law. Perhaps you envy the draconian measures taken to curb population control? The Indian goverment has enough money to develop nuclear weapons and a budding space program, plus purchase a surplus carrier from the (former) Soviet Union. Now, how SHOULD they spend their resources? You also might wanna take a look at what the Green Revolution did for India. >Most of Africa is one meal away from starvation. -- Why that means >that more than half of the world is bearly producing enough food to exist >and no more. Those parts of Africa which ARE starving are starving due to tribal political warfare. You want to rage and foam at the mouth, why don't you take a look at the Ethopian goverment, which blew hundreds of millions of dollars to celebrate their reign, while their people STARVED. Attempts to provide food (for free) to Somalia are stopped not due to a shortage of food but due to armed bands of tribal thugs. >Argentina, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States are producing >significant surpluses of food, yet not enough to supply the rest of the >world in a single bad harvest year. Bogus. We annually give away food and pay (PAY!!!) farmers NOT to plant fields so the price of grain stays stable. >Direct extropolation of the world's population shows a doubling in the >next 50 years. Sure. But nothing is direct in the world. >With, presently, only some 25% of the world's population having good and >sufficient food it leaves me wondering how wrong Malthus was. If we could turn the rest of the world into good capitalists, they'd be complaining about obesity and heart disease. Play in the intelluctual sandbox of Usenet -- > SYSMGR@CADLAB.ENG.UMD.EDU < -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:54:12 GMT From: "Michael V. Kent" Subject: Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars? Newsgroups: sci.space In article tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes: >> >Let's see: China and India are hovering on the raged edge of subsistance >right now. Most of Africa is one meal away from starvation. -- Why that means >that more than half of the world is bearly producing enough food to exist >and no more. Africa has a distribution problem due largely to its long-term civil wars. This is not a food-supply problem. >With, presently, only some 25% of the world's population having good and >sufficient food it leaves me wondering how wrong Malthus was. The per capita food consumption is higher now than it ever was, and the UN recently released a report that global life expectancy increased three months last year alone. Despite all of the population growth, the standard of living keeps improving. Mike -- Michael Kent kentm@rpi.edu McDonnell Douglas Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute All facts in this post are based on publicly available information. All opinions expressed are solely those of the author. Apple II Forever !! ------------------------------ Date: 12 Sep 92 04:43:04 GMT From: Ron Baalke Subject: Jupiter's Magnetic Field Shaped by Solar Wind Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary Michael Braukus Headquarters, Washington, D.C. September 11, 1992 (Phone: 202/358-1547) Diane Ainsworth Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. (Phone: 818/354-5011) RELEASE: 92-145 JUPITER'S MAGNETIC FIELD SHAPED BY SOLAR WIND Scientists studying data from Jupiter's highly charged magnetic environment -- acquired by the Ulysses spacecraft encounter in February 1992 -- reported in a series of papers published today that the solar wind exerts a much stronger influence on the planet's magnetic field than previously thought. The discovery was the result of Ulysses' unique trajectory, which took the spacecraft to higher latitudes near the planet than were reached by previous spacecraft, said JPL Ulysses Project Scientist Dr. Edward J. Smith, principal author of one of seven articles published today in Science magazine. "In addition, Ulysses' outbound path took the spacecraft through another previously unexplored region in the dusk sector, where we had never been before," Smith said. Three separate findings during the Jupiter encounter supported this conclusion, Smith said. The first evidence was derived from Ulysses' flight through the high latitude region of the magnetic field -- called the magnetosphere -- in which the planetary magnetic field lines led out into interplanetary space rather than returning to Jupiter across the equator. "Five of the experiments sensed this transition simultaneously, once at a distance of only 7 planetary radii (500,000 miles) and a second time at a distance of 15 radii (1.1 million miles)," Smith said. The second major surprise occurred as the spacecraft was traveling outbound. Measurements showed that the magnetic field was not rotating with the planet but was being swept downstream toward the magnetic tail of the magnetosphere, Smith said. "This property was seen well inside the magnetosphere at large distances from the boundary with the solar wind," Smith said. "It is, nevertheless, attributed by scientists to a dragging effect of the solar wind on the magnetosphere." The third piece of the puzzle leading the Ulysses teams to this conclusion was the identification of a thick layer just inside the boundary of the magnetosphere in which solar wind particles and Jovian particles appear to be intermingling, and the magnetic field is not rotating with the planet. "Scientists interpreted these observations to imply that magnetic field lines are being peeled away from the magnetosphere by the solar wind," Smith said. Jupiter's magnetic field, the largest in the solar system, forms a windsock -- the magnetosphere -- that is blown by the solar wind. The magnetosphere is known to vary in size and configuration over time depending on the amount of force exerted on it by the solar wind. Millions of highly charged particles swirl and bounce around within this magnetic bubble and many of them eventually escape into interplanetary space. Smith published his findings along with Dr. Edgar Page, European Space Agency (ESA) science coordinator, and ESA Project Manager Dr. Klaus- Peter Wenzel. Other results of Ulysses' milestone flight past Jupiter were reported in subsequent articles. "Jupiter is like a cosmic-ray source spewing these things out into interplanetary space all the time," said co-author Page. "The energy probably comes from the planet's rapid rotation every 10 hours." Smith said scientists have made similar observations of the effects of the solar wind on Earth's magnetosphere. "At Earth, magnetic fields at high latitudes lead out into space, magnetic fields on the flanks of the magnetosphere are pulled tailward and a boundary layer exists adjacent to the solar wind flowing around the magnetosphere," he said. "For many years, theorists have believed that the solar wind was exerting much less influence on the giant, strongly magnetized Jupiter than on the smaller magnetosphere of Earth," Smith said. "The latest results do not mean that Jupiter is like the Earth in all aspects, but theorists aware of the new Ulysses results are now revising their ideas." Ulysses is a joint NASA-ESA mission to study the poles of the sun and will begin its primary mission in June 1994. - end - ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | Anything is impossible if /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | you don't attempt it. |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 04:37:33 GMT From: Ron Baalke Subject: Magellan Update - 09/11/92 Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary Forwarded from the Magellan Project MAGELLAN STATUS REPORT September 11, 1992 1. Magellan has continued successful radar mapping operations since the restart on Thursday, 3 September. The area currently being mapped is the last significant unmapped region, covering 1.5% of Venus. When finished on 13 September, the total mapped area will reach 99 percent of the planet. 2. Transmitter B's temperature remains near 58 C, varying about 2 C during the course of each orbit. The symbol signal to noise ratio (SSNR) is positive during both 34 meter HEF (High Efficiency) station passes and 70 meter passes which Magellan is sharing with Pioneer Venus Orbiter. 3. Next Monday, 14 September 1992, Magellan will perform an orbit trim maneuver to lower the orbit periapsis altitude from 258 to 182 kilometers. This will enhance gravity data collection for the beginning of Cycle-4 on 15 September 1992. The prime objective of Cycle-4 is to obtain a global map of the Venus gravity field from the new elliptical orbit. 4. Also next week, in parallel with gravity operations, a week-long period of battery reconditioning will also be started. ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | Anything is impossible if /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | you don't attempt it. |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | ------------------------------ Date: 11 Sep 92 18:13:25 GMT From: TDG SANDFORD Subject: NOAA Technical reports list? Newsgroups: sci.space I am trying to get hold of a list of NOAA/NESDIS technical reports (technical info on / uses of the NOAA-X series of satellites). Does anyone have such a list they could send me? Or have an email address of an appropriate contact at NOAA/NESDIS (? M. Hughes ?) Please email to me - I'll post a follow-up if there's enough interest. -- Thomas Sandford | t.d.g.sandford@bradford.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 16:06:10 -0500 From: pgf@srl03.cacs.usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering) Subject: One small step for a space act. vol 3 no 9 Allen Sherzer writes: \In article kentm@aix.rpi.edu (Michael V. Kent) writes: />I, personally, believe a Delta Clipper, HL-20, or NASP-derived vehicle will \>be funded very shortly after PMC (well, probably EMCC). /How? All the money which could be used will be spent on Freedom and \Shuttle. /I hope we will get Delta Clipper, it is the only bright spot on the \horizion. But if we do get it I hope you realize what an inditement /it will be against the buisness as usual attitude at NASA. \ Allen BTW, did anyone _read_ the text of Al Gore's Birmingham speech? He blasted the Bush admin for spending money on "wild ideas" like Brilliant Pebbles instead of channeling it to Huntsville where it belonged. Ugh. -- Phil Fraering pgf@srl0x.cacs.usl.edu where the x is a number from 1-5. Phone: 318/365-5418 SnailMail: 2408 Blue Haven Dr., New Iberia, La. 70560 If seven maids with seven brooms swept for half a year, do you think, the Walrus asked, that they could make it clear? I doubt it, said the Carpenter, and shed a bitter tear. --------- "NOAH!" \ \ Lewis Carrol "Yes lord?" > Bill Cosby, The Story of Noah "HOW LONG CAN YOU TREAD WATER?"/ ------------------------------ Date: 11 Sep 92 18:28:39 GMT From: "Michael V. Kent" Subject: One Small Step for a Space Activist... Vol 3 No 9 Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space In article <1992Sep11.174512.20512@eng.umd.edu> sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu writes: >In article , kentm@aix.rpi.edu (Michael V. Kent) writes: > >>I, personally, believe a Delta Clipper, HL-20, or NASP-derived vehicle will >>be funded very shortly after PMC (well, probably EMCC). > >Aurora-derived? :-) Let's see, we have a stealth recce, a Mach 5 spyplane, and now a secret 2STO. Hmmmmm. Has anyone checked on Nick's asteroids lately? Maybe they are already starting to "disappear." :) And we wondered why Halley's comet wasn't as bright as it should be! Mike -- Michael Kent kentm@rpi.edu McDonnell Douglas Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute All facts in this post are based on publicly available information. All opinions expressed are solely those of the author. Apple II Forever !! ------------------------------ Date: 11 Sep 92 18:23:50 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: One Small Step for a Space Activist... Vol 3 No 9 Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space In article kentm@aix.rpi.edu (Michael V. Kent) writes: >I, personally, believe a Delta Clipper, HL-20, or NASP-derived vehicle will >be funded very shortly after PMC (well, probably EMCC). How? All the money which could be used will be spent on Freedom and Shuttle. I hope we will get Delta Clipper, it is the only bright spot on the horizion. But if we do get it I hope you realize what an inditement it will be against the buisness as usual attitude at NASA. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they | | aws@iti.org | put a man on the Moon?" | +----------------------225 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 11 Sep 92 19:21:04 GMT From: "Michael V. Kent" Subject: One Small Step for a Space Activist... Vol 3 No 9 Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space In article <1992Sep11.182350.8882@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes: >In article kentm@aix.rpi.edu (Michael V. Kent) writes: > >>I, personally, believe a Delta Clipper, HL-20, or NASP-derived vehicle will >>be funded very shortly after PMC (well, probably EMCC). > >How? All the money which could be used will be spent on Freedom and >Shuttle. I'm thinking of the Shuttle + Shuttle payloads budget as an operations budget and what is now the Freedom budget as a development budget. As the destination of the Shuttle changes from free-flight to SSF, the cost impact will not be drastic. It's mainly a change of destination. Most of the $2 billion we spend of SSF R&D will be available for other pro- jects. From this money, I expect about $1G - $1.5G to be spent on this Personnel Launch System. The remaining $500M will probably be spent on an OMV, better spacesuits, and some type of free-flyer. There are two main assumptions in this model: 1) Freedom support costs will not greatly exceed current Shuttle + payload costs. I expect and increase of a few $100M, but way less than a billion. 2) The NASA budget will remain steady at about $15 billion per year. Actually, there's a third assumption: 3) Another loss of vehicle will not significantly alter annual costs but instead result in fewer free-flying payloads. The money will be tight, but it will be there. But I don't see a Shuttle replacement vehicle funded in earnest from the current NASA budget until after EMCC. Note: If Delta Clipper actually works, it's a whole new ballgame. Mike -- Michael Kent kentm@rpi.edu McDonnell Douglas Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute All facts in this post are based on publicly available information. All opinions expressed are solely those of the author. Apple II Forever !! ------------------------------ Date: 11 Sep 92 18:21:05 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: Shuttle Replacement (was: One Small Step...) Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space In article <1992Sep11.020949.12286@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov writes: >Goldin says we should consider the Shuttle program to last "at least" >until 2005, but not much beyond that. 12 years != forever. we could probobally make it last until 2012 or so. At that time, and only then unless radical changes are made, will the funds be available to build the replacement the government way. Add another fifteen years to actually build it and we are looking at 35 years. I'm getting on in years and for me that 35 years just might be forever. >No word on where a Shuttle replacement might come from, or how it >would be funded. Exactly. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they | | aws@iti.org | put a man on the Moon?" | +----------------------225 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 11 Sep 92 20:15:13 GMT From: Nick Janow Subject: Terraforming Newsgroups: sci.space roberts@CMR.NCSL.NIST.GOV (John Roberts) writes: > I believe that portion of the discussion involved a search for terrestrial > organisms that could live on Mars unmodified. I believe the Viking tests > found *no* organic material, and they should have found some from meteorite > impacts. The discussion wandered a bit, and I got the impression that the "Mars' surface conditions would kill any Terran life" argument was being used to argue against _any_ life able to exist there. Viking scratched only the superoxidized surface; would it have noticed silica fibres? > There's a desert plant (related to cactus, I think) that's mainly > underground, with a transparent upper coating to let light through. However, > in that case, I'm pretty sure the transparent coating is living tissue. That's the one I had in mind. That plant merely proves the concept; another plant could easily apply inorganic light pipes. I could imagine bamboo evolving something like that if surface conditions deteriorated. -- Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 08:40:25 GMT From: brad thornborrow Subject: Terraforming Mars Newsgroups: sci.space Date Entered: 09-11-92 03:35 N.>The entire organism could be underground, using silica fibres to the s N.>light pipes. I think some Terran life forms use something like this ( N.>plants that use light pipes). N.> N.>Limiting your thoughts to Terran organic processes leaves out a _lot_ N.>possibilities. N.> N.>-- N.> N.>Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca N.> Am I missing something, I havn't been following the entire conversation here, but it seems to me everybody is missing the gravity problem. Last time I checked, Mars' gravity was not strong enough to keep oxygen molecules from escaping into space over time. So, even if one could start plant-life on Mars, you'd have to have a heck of a lot of it to keep the oxygen from just "floating away"!!! More wood for the fire!!! Brad T. --- WinQwk 2.0b#545 And God said: E = mv - Ze /r, and there was light! RoseMail 2.00 : Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 20:15:19 GMT From: "Thomas H. Kunich" Subject: Terraforming needs to begin now Newsgroups: sci.space In article <11SEP199202381403@reg.triumf.ca> vincent@reg.triumf.ca (pete) writes: > >Jeez that's bizarre. I had that exact idea some 10 years ago, in >detail. Plus a few more twists: use the glass to form solar mirrors >to fire the glass factories, and use the fresh water to grow crops >on the ground sheltered from direct sunlight beneath the evaporation >panels. The vapour is condensed by cool sea water flowing into the >system along the tops of the evaporators. > I see 2 major problems with this scheme, besides labour: >1) glass requires lime, to lower its melting point, and yield >a strong product. Also sand must be very white to yield transparent >glass. >2) how do you pump the seawater cheaply? 1) This is a minor problem that is easily paid for by the produce of The farming allowed by the presense of fresh water and virtually unlimited sunlight. Of course, the bunny huggers would argue that we are des~roying the pristine beauty of the Sahara Desert with nasty plants. :-) 2) Solar power generation of the water boiler type (PG & E's Mojave plant for instance) can eaily supply the power. nce you are pumping water mainly you can use hydraulic storage. ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 190 ------------------------------