Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 05:03:45 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V15 #209 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Thu, 17 Sep 92 Volume 15 : Issue 209 Today's Topics: Alien substance from space (2 msgs) Bioeffects of magnetic field deprivation Clinton and Space Funding Ethics of Terra-forming Ethics of Terraforming Pinging Phobos with TOS Pluto Direct Propulsion Options Population (3 msgs) Pulsing rocket engines Seeding Venus (was Re: Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars?) Space Platforms (political, not physical :-) Space Poop Terraforming needs to begin now The real issue: massive misallocation of funds Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 Sep 92 02:25:37 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: Alien substance from space Newsgroups: sci.space,misc.headlines In article <1992Sep15.165934.4132@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes: : Anyone have any ideas as to what the substance found on NASA's long :term exposure unit is? : Apparently it's something never before seen on Earth. : The substance is a few microns of crystal-like material found on a :piece of teflon from the structure. You mean the green crystals that they code named Andromeda? Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they | | aws@iti.org | put a man on the Moon?" | +----------------------221 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 16 Sep 92 04:41:46 GMT From: "Elizabeth G. Levy" Subject: Alien substance from space Newsgroups: sci.space,misc.headlines In article <1992Sep16.022537.1964@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes: >In article <1992Sep15.165934.4132@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes: > >: Anyone have any ideas as to what the substance found on NASA's long >:term exposure unit is? > >: Apparently it's something never before seen on Earth. > >: The substance is a few microns of crystal-like material found on a >:piece of teflon from the structure. > >You mean the green crystals that they code named Andromeda? > > Allen No, no, it's got a strange colour, right? Just like out of that Lovecraft story? -- "It's a Drake's Coffee Cake.... I have another one, but I'm saving it for _later_." ------------------------------ Date: 16 Sep 92 02:22:36 GMT From: Shari L Brooks Subject: Bioeffects of magnetic field deprivation Newsgroups: sci.space In article rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu (Jeff Bytof) writes: >The US and Japan have excellent room-sized magnetically shielded >facilities. Dr. Asashima used one for his newt experiments. Even >UC San Diego (my alma mater and current employer) has one, but >it's used mainly for physics experiments. Hmmm, one of the effects quoted was hair loss. I bet that the experimenters at UCSD spend more than 1/3 of there life there....Did you notice if there were an unusual number of bald physicists? :) :) :) -- Shari L Brooks | slb%suned1.nswses.navy.mil@nosc.mil NAVSOC code NSOC323D | shari@caspar.nosc.mil NAWS Pt Mugu, CA 93042-5013 | ==> this will change by the end of Sept <== The US Navy probably disagrees w/all statements/opinions above, which are mine. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Sep 92 23:16:52 GMT From: Shari L Brooks Subject: Clinton and Space Funding Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro In article pgf@srl02.cacs.usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering) writes: [opinions on space funding, of course] > >I am cross-posting this back to sci.space because I think >that right now the idea of a separate talk.politics.space >is asinine. > ...for which, those of us who can neither recieve nor post to talk.anything or alt.anything, are profoundly grateful, as this topic does touch on our livelyhoods... > --> Support UN military force against Doug Mohney <-- Indubitably! :) -- Shari L Brooks | slb%suned1.nswses.navy.mil@nosc.mil NAVSOC code NSOC323D | shari@caspar.nosc.mil NAWS Pt Mugu, CA 93042-5013 | ==> this will change by the end of Sept <== The US Navy probably disagrees w/all statements/opinions above, which are mine. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Sep 92 02:03:33 GMT From: Shari L Brooks Subject: Ethics of Terra-forming Newsgroups: sci.space In article 18084TM@msu.edu (Tom) writes: >I should have known my post would have drawn fire from the anti-lifers.. huh? I have heard of pro-choice before... :) >2) You totally missed the point. Ethics questions are based on values. >I submit that you either value life, or not. No middle ground. >If you do not value life, then messing with rainforests is OK, as are CFC's, >DDT, Aids, Polio, and lots of other DEMONSTRATED life-damagers. >If you do value life, then you will want to protect life here, particularly >life-forms or -systems upon which your own survival may depend. Protection >of other, non-affecting life-forms may be desired for aesthetic reasons, >or simply to have a 'cushion', or to be safe, in the case of systems or >forms we don't know much about. I have puzzled over this a while, and my conclusion is that it is missing an adjective. "your" should be in front of "life"; otherwise it is self- contradictory. Either there is a middle ground or not; and the last paragraph quoted above describes a middle ground, where some life is valued more than other life. This makes no sense unless "life" is replaced by "your life". >But, if you do value life, than you must conclude that terra-forming >Mars would be good, as it would support more life, and, especially, Human >life. Or, you may decide that the terra-forming question is intractable, >unanswerable, nuetral. In no case would you conclude that terra-forming >would be bad, unless you are an anti-lifer. >The only way you can logically make the situation on Mars the same as on >Earth is to a) Demonstrate that life there affects life here, or >b) Assert that life-in-general has value without Human life. (This >choice is the route many greens take, and it is for this reason that many >people correctly identify them as anti-life double-thinkers. Anti-life >non-double-thinkers have to be dead.) You can also jump out of the system >and c) claim that value exists seperate from Human Choice. Ah. I suppose that works too; instead of "life" we could say "human life". Actually that's better. It makes sense that way. Of course I disagree. I guess that in Tommy's doublespeak I am an anti-life double-thinker, as I think that life-in-general does just fine without Human life. Or, more to the point, its purpose is not to augment Human life. Although it might be fun for us to pretend otherwise, we are not God. The rest of life, Earth-based or Mars-based, was not put there for us to casually destroy just because it does not augment our convenience. >The only possible question about Mars-terra-forming; "Is it good for us?" This reminds me of a bit of history. In the 1970's the US got involved in some covert activities in Chile. The US Ambassador to the UN, Jeane Kirkepatrick, replied when asked about this, "What is good for the US is not necessarily good for the rest of the world." >If you think there is some other, more important question, you are an >anti-lifer, and, unless already dead, a hypocrite. I guess, then, that I am a hypocrite, because I do think there is some other, more important question. A question of ethics. Of course when it comes down to survival, one wishes to choose one's own individual life and species survival over and above other individuals and species. But when we have developed the ability to completely wipe out an ecosystem (this assumes we can Terraform Mars, and Mars has some sort of life, two fairly tall suppositions, I admit), and choose to exercise this ability just because we *can*, just because it is *convenient* for us, I maintain it is unethical. If we have the luxury to truly figure out how to terraform Mars, why then we have the luxury to figure out how to do it in such a way as to leave the (already discovered) life and ecosystem intact. -- Shari L Brooks | slb%suned1.nswses.navy.mil@nosc.mil NAVSOC code NSOC323D | shari@caspar.nosc.mil NAWS Pt Mugu, CA 93042-5013 | ==> this will change by the end of Sept <== The US Navy probably disagrees w/all statements/opinions above, which are mine. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 08:18:15 PDT From: "UTADNX::UTDSSA::GREER"@utspan.span.nasa.gov Subject: Ethics of Terraforming In Space Digest V15 #202, Tom <18084TM@msu.edu> writes: > [lots of mathematically precise argumentation deleted] > >But, if you do value life, than you must conclude that terra-forming >Mars would be good, as it would support more life, and, especially, Human >life. Or, you may decide that the terra-forming question is intractable, >unanswerable, nuetral. In no case would you conclude that terra-forming >would be bad, unless you are an anti-lifer. This reminds me of the argument of a scientist working here, who, because of his devotion to Catholicism, said it's always better to have more people because it means there are more souls to worship God. He even went so far as to affirm that it would be even better if humans had shorter life spans and reproduced more quickly, since that would make even more souls for the same purpose. It doesn't necessarily follow that anti-terraformers are also anti-lifers. Consider the limit, for example, where there are as many humans packed onto the Earth as the land will allow, packed like sardines in a can, and assume this state could somehow be maintained indefinitely. By your formula, you would be forced to say this was a better situation than the present one, since there would be more humans, and more is always better, and humans are better than other life. Clearly there are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dream't of in your philosophy. There is a place in Peru that is the driest place on this planet, where the time between rains is measured in decades. You could "terraform" this place, make it into a lush garden, but then you would have destroyed a thing that exists as much in the mind as it does in reality. Mars and the Moon are such places, places where the mind escapes the solipsism of artifice... Anyway, the point is there are plenty of points of view that exclude the desirability of terraforming that do not fit into your Procrustean formula. And if you don't think people can righteously object to terraforming rocks, why don't you suggest making farmland out of the Alps or the Himalayas? _____________ Dale M. Greer, whose opinions are not to be confused with those of the Center for Space Sciences, U.T. at Dallas, UTSPAN::UTADNX::UTDSSA::GREER "Pave Paradise, put up a parking lot." -- Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 10:49:35 -0500 From: pgf@srl01.cacs.usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering) Subject: Pinging Phobos with TOS Nick writes: Along these lines, perhaps we can steer upper stages headed for deep space into intercept trajectories, and get some observing time on a big telescope like Keck or Hubble to see what happens. For example, could Mars Observer's TOS be steered into Phobos, or would we have had to tinker with TOS's navigation box beforehand? Do we know Phobos' orbit well enough to steer blind? What could we learn by doing imaging and spectroscopy on the resulting Phobos debris cloud? I suspect this would be a great way to learn what lies underneath the surface layer of regolith. The collision wouldn't damage Phobos, just put another impact crater on it. Some future isotopic ratio studies might be effected, and the spectroscopy study itself would have to factor out the TOS debris. ---- end of quoted material... Who here works on Mars Observer? Who can we talk to about this? -- Phil Fraering pgf@srl0x.cacs.usl.edu where the x is a number from 1-5. Phone: 318/365-5418 SnailMail: 2408 Blue Haven Dr., New Iberia, La. 70560 "NOAH!" "Yes Lord?" - Bill Cosby "HOW LONG CAN YOU TREAD WATER?" ------------------------------ Date: 16 Sep 92 07:16:47 GMT From: Nick Szabo Subject: Pluto Direct Propulsion Options Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Sep15.084334.19434@news.Hawaii.Edu> tholen@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Dave Tholen) writes: >[reasons why planetary missions keep ignoring ion rockets -- everybody > wants the other guy to go first] >Chemical rockets can get us to Pluto, and quite fast, so ion drive has >limited appeal. And as someone else correctly pointed out, using such >a drive for a orbital mission, as opposed to a flyby, would require that >you start to slow down after reaching roughly the halfway point. Flight >times would be much longer, and there is a sense of urgency to get there >as soon as possible, for a variety of reasons. Ion rockets (or more generally, electric rockets including plasma thrusters) can get us to Pluto faster than chemical rockets, and with much more payload, for a flyby mission. They allow missions that don't need to wait for gravity assist windows, as needed for Galileo, Cassinni, etc. They allow missions that rendesvous or orbit instead of fly by small or distant targets -- even if that is not desired in this case, it is in many others (CRAF, Rosetta, etc.) They can increase the target choices of NEAR-like missions manyfold. Electric rockets can be a superior form of travel for just about any kind of exploration beyond the Moon, and may also be useful for Earth-orbit transfers, such as the heavily travelled GTO to GEO run. If they are a useful comsat stage, they can most certainly bring enormous improvements to deep space transportation. Let's get the planetary exploration community together to bring about these improvements instead of every project sitting around waiting for the other guy to do it. -- szabo@techbook.COM Tuesday, November third ## Libertarian $$ vote Tuesday ^^ Libertarian -- change ** choice && November 3rd @@Libertarian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 08:52:14 PDT From: "UTADNX::UTDSSA::GREER"@utspan.span.nasa.gov Subject: Population One thing many people don't understand about population growth is that if the birth rate were immediately cut down to the replacement rate, the population would double in one average life span and then stabilize. You've probably seen those graphs that show the numbers of people according to age rank. In less developed countries, these graphs look like pyramids, much wider at the lower age ranks that at the higher ones. For a stable population, the graph looks more like a rectangle, with nearly equal numbers at all age ranks except when you get past the average life span. Age Before After Rank Stabilization Stabilization 70+ || || 60-70 | | | | 50-60 | | | | 40-50 | | | | 30-40 | | | | 20-30 | | | | 10-20 | | | | 0-10 | | | | The population at each age rank stabilizes at the population of lowest rank at the time stabilization was achieved. The replacement fertility rate in the US is about 2.3 children per woman. The current fertility rate is about 1.8 children per woman, but the population is increasing, even after excluding immigration, because of this pyramid filling effect. So how does this relate to space, and why did I feel compelled to post it? _____________ Dale M. Greer, whose opinions are not to be confused with those of the Center for Space Sciences, U.T. at Dallas, UTSPAN::UTADNX::UTDSSA::GREER "Pave Paradise, put up a parking lot." -- Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 03:13:03 GMT From: David Knapp Subject: Population Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Sep15.150442.3492@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes: > >Electric vehicles aren't what's being talked about here. At $35 a barrel >equivalent, alcohol produced from biomass is economical with known and >tested techniques available *now*. At $55 a barrel equivalent, Fischer- >Topish (sp) process synthetic gasoline from coal or shale is economical >and feasible with techniques known and tested in volume production over >50 years ago. As the price of oil eventually rises, there are known, >developed, and available alternative liquid fuel technologies that will >come on line to take the place of oil. This is a solved problem. Do I interpret what you are saying is that all fossil fuel dependent machinery will be supported on alcohol from *biomass*? I don't count much on coal extractions much since when they are taxed (shut up, Doug) they will be diminshed even sooner. A recent lecture I attended reported oils etc running out in 50 years and coal running out in 100. 50 years doesn't seem that far away considering our current approach (our administrations) to alternative enrgies, which seems to be to ignore it. >Electric vehicles are touted for two main reasons. One, they have low >point of *use* emissions. And two, they are the ultimate multi-fuel >vehicle since any fuel that can be used to make electricity can power >them. However, the storage battery problem remains intractable after >over a century of development. Yes, my point from above. >Electric vehicles, if they become common, They are already routinely used, although not a wide scale. ~100 mile range, overnight charge. They are reportedly lower on emissions, even taking into account coal burning for electricity generation. >will be externally powered or have short range and a limited performance >envelope until the battery problem is licked. I don't hold out much hope >that a miracle battery is on the horizon that will change this. Battery >science is as complex, if not more so, as rocket science. Rocket science >hasn't delivered cheap payload of orbit, and battery science hasn't >delivered cheap, light, high capacity batteries. Some here would claim >that that's *because* of government funded research, not in spite of it. Please explain the last sentence. -- David Knapp University of Colorado, Boulder Perpetual Student knapp@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 16:12:23 GMT From: Nick Haines Subject: Population Newsgroups: sci.space In article tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes: [ideas for helping the underdeveloped world to feed itself] Without these accomodations we will have brushfire wars running out of control forever and threatening the erst of us continuously. But those brushfire wars are going to be significant contributors to Western economies for the next 20-30 years at least. Sad but true. Look for instance at the German pullout from the EFA: so they can develop a cheaper fighter more readily saleable to the 3rd world. Or at the recent sales of fighters to Taiwan, or the delight of arms manufacturers at the Gulf War ("Combat-proven" stickers are worth big $$$). The wars in sub-Saharan Africa would not be so troublesome if the locals weren't buying arms from elsewhere, nor would the people be so poor if they weren't spending so much on arms. The interest of the West lies in fomenting these conflicts, not preventing them. While this remains true, world-wide peace is a crazy fantasy. If we can put these sorts of controls in place then we _can_ look forward to expanding space explorations, even some sorts of colonization. But unless we get our own house in order there will never be enough surplus energy or political will to do much. Agreed. Nick ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 92 17:18:19 GMT From: Urban F Subject: Pulsing rocket engines Newsgroups: sci.space Ali AbuTaha, of Dynamic Transients, is claiming that pulsing-engine technology could enable the Shuttle to carry a payload of 105.500 kg, as apart from 29.500 today, and also that an Ariane 4:s first stage could become so efficient as to make it a SSTO vehicle. The effect responsible for this is "dynamic overshoot", which is said to occur at sudden start-up of rocket engines, which has been largely neglected, he says. He admits that existing systems would need extensive modifications, and that it won't go quickly. I'm not capable to judge if this is reasonable, comments please? [Flight International 16-22 Sept 1992] -- Urban Fredriksson urf@icl.se "When a woman thinks quickly, it is called intuition." -- Barbro Alving ------------------------------ Date: 15 Sep 92 22:49:08 GMT From: Shari L Brooks Subject: Seeding Venus (was Re: Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars?) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Sep13.205938.16251@cs.rochester.edu> dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes: >In article <22205@suned1.Nswses.Navy.MIL> slb@slced1.nswses.navy.mil >(Shari L Brooks) writes: >>But I have >>always thought, there are plenty of bacteria & single-celled algae >>capable of putting up with the Venusian extremes. >Excuse me? If by the "Venusian extremes" you mean the surface >of Venus (with its extreme temperature and pressure), this is >simply wrong. No living creature based on the common terrestrial >model (proteins, DNA, etc.) could survive those conditions. Indeed, No, I am thinking of the upper atmosphere, above the sulfuric acid... I seem to recall that there is oxygen and the atmospheric pressure there is still survivable. [to bacteria, not humans!] I was thinking, that if the upper Venusian atmosphere were "seeded" with a variety of bacteria, algae, even viruses (although I am fairly unsure of the efficacy of that), that some would survive, adapt, and thrive. Eventually evolution would dictate that something would adapt to surviving lower down. >even the somewhat less extreme conditions inside hydrothermal >vents here on earth are too hot for amino acids to survive. Are these conditions less extreme than the upper atmosphere of Venus? -- Shari L Brooks | slb%suned1.nswses.navy.mil@nosc.mil NAVSOC code NSOC323D | shari@caspar.nosc.mil NAWS Pt Mugu, CA 93042-5013 | ==> this will change by the end of Sept <== The US Navy probably disagrees w/all statements/opinions above, which are mine. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Sep 92 05:49:00 GMT From: Nick Szabo Subject: Space Platforms (political, not physical :-) Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space,alt.politics.marrou,alt.politics.libertarian In article 18084TM@msu.edu (Tom) writes: > >Well, now that we've seen bandied about various versions of both the >Democratic and Republican Official Platforms Re: Space, would anyone >happen to know the Libertarian Official Space Platform? From memory, the Libertarian platform has two signficant statements on space: * Privatize the radio spectrum and orbital slots, and disavow all treaties (Sea, Moon, Antartica, etc.) that prohibit private property and enterprise in frontier areas. * Disband NASA, turning over science to the universities, R&D operations to commerce, and anything the military needs to the military. I strongly support the former, but my own position on the latter is more relaxed: NASA should reform its bureacracy, privatize its infrastructure, such as the DSN and TDRSS communications networks, should purchase all launch services, and should pursue R&D in support of the commercial space and airline industries as well as conduct exploration of space. -- szabo@techbook.COM Tuesday, November third ## Libertarian $$ vote Tuesday ^^ Libertarian -- change ** choice && November 3rd @@Libertarian ------------------------------ Date: 16 Sep 92 03:18:07 GMT From: Shari L Brooks Subject: Space Poop Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space In article <1992Sep3.112254.4184@ulrik.uio.no> jarleb@athena.uio.no (Jarle Brinchmann) writes: Re: debris in space >If I may ask a question.. >Is there any plans whatsoever to remove or collect some of the debris >up there ? Not that I know of...not that I would know. > I haven't really calculated anything, but I guess that any >big space-station would have to face the problem that quite a lot of >debris are flying around up there. There is a good paper in the most recent issue of the AIAA'a _Journal of Spacecraft and Rockets_ on this problem. I don't have it handy but the author has written an analytical model to study the problem of debris in LEO. Cross=posted to sci.space because folks who know more about this will be in that group... -- Shari L Brooks | slb%suned1.nswses.navy.mil@nosc.mil NAVSOC code NSOC323D | shari@caspar.nosc.mil NAWS Pt Mugu, CA 93042-5013 | ==> this will change by the end of Sept <== The US Navy probably disagrees w/all statements/opinions above, which are mine. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Sep 92 08:33:44 GMT From: nicho@VNET.IBM.COM Subject: Terraforming needs to begin now Newsgroups: sci.space In amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk writes: >> This keeps cropping up among the uniformed. >I'm not uninformed. I just happen to believe in absolute property >rights held under clear titles. That makes you uninformed, or at best naive. What you believe in, bears no relationship to reality. There is no such thing as absolute property rights. >At which time it was taken from them at gunpoint. So ??? >No, you cannot turn >back the clock and give them the continent anymore than you could do >so in the United States. Ireland isn't big enough to hold all the >claimants to Irish ancestry in the two places :-) But that does not >also mean that the "Crown" holds clear title to other lands. It holds >it only by right of the gun, not by clear title traced back through >the original owners. I can't see your point here. This phrase 'original owners' crops up several times here, and I can't quite work out who you are refering to. Do we all trace our ancestry back to the year dot, and then place claims for land held hundreds of years ago ??? It doesn't really matter that the land was aquired at gunpoint, this is a time honoured tradition. You don't seem to understand that the land was aquired by the Crown in accordance to the laws of the day. That made it legal in their eyes. If you wish to dispute a claim that is recognised by law, then you must act outside those laws ie. You will have to fight. This is why wars of independance are fought. >I can understand the conditions perfectly. People with more firepower >came in and raped, killed, stole and otherwise exploited the people >who lived there. The same thing happened in my country (the USA). You _don't_ understand. No one living is a nice safe secure civilised country can possibly understand the mores, morals and actions of people who were venturing thousands of miles into the unknown. To impose your own moral pomposity on people living in conditions you have never experienced is simple arrogance. >It goes for the US and Canada and Israel and anywhere else where >property is stolen at gunpoint. As I said, it can never be put back >as it was. But much property can be returned to its rightful owners. You seem to think the determination of 'rightful ownership' is something simple. If 'twere simple, we wouldn't need courts to mediate disputes. As I've said before, you're ignorant on this subject. Australian aboringines are, socially, nomadic and natural communists. this is in the sense that what belongs to one member of the tribe belongs to all. They have no concept of land ownership, other than that brought to them by European settlers. The idea of crown, or common land, is natural to them. >I might add that there is more to the problems of the aborigines than >just land rights. But as you have pointed out already, these have nothing to do with the land ownership issue. >Nuff said in this forum... Well why didn't you reply by mail then ??? Public ignorance deserves a public rebuttal. Documentaries and CNN bradcasts are a lousy way of trying to understand a society. Too many of us (self included) make the mistake of taking a little knowledge, applying our own prejudices and coming up with a black and white answer. Things simply don't work this way. ----------------------------------------------------------------- ** Of course I don't speak for IBM ** Greg Nicholls ... nicho@vnet.ibm.com or nicho@cix.compulink.co.uk voice/fax: 44-794-516038 ------------------------------ Date: 16 Sep 92 06:09:22 GMT From: Nick Szabo Subject: The real issue: massive misallocation of funds Newsgroups: sci.space >>[NASA spends 66% of space budget on astronauts, less than >> 1% on telepresence -- does this reflect benefits of each?] In article <1992Sep15.001211.3577@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> begley%lock.dnet@jesnic.jsc.nasa.gov (Mike Begley) writes: >No, it does not, but it does reflect the actual cost of allowing >humans to go into space versus allowing machines to go into space. >Technology development closed cycle life support and safe transportation, >and life science studies, do cost a lot of money. Quite true. And out here in the real world, where people lose rather than gain when things cost more, this is considered a strong argument for spending less on the astronauts, and more on the telepresence. We want more functionality for the same $$$. If we want you and I, not just a few astronauts, to one day be able to go into space, it makes far more sense to invest in the telepresence, to help build the industrial capability that can some day support thousands of people in space. As for "humans vs. machines", both humans and machines are involved in both cases. -- szabo@techbook.COM Tuesday, November third ## Libertarian $$ vote Tuesday ^^ Libertarian -- change ** choice && November 3rd @@Libertarian ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 209 ------------------------------