Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 05:00:50 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V15 #218 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Sat, 19 Sep 92 Volume 15 : Issue 218 Today's Topics: A modest proposal Drop nuc waste into sun (2 msgs) Ethics of Terra-forming (2 msgs) Hubble's constant Modest moon rock proposal NASA Daily News for 09/17/92 (Forwarded) Population PUTTING VENUS IN AN ORBIT SIMILAR TO THE ORBIT OF THE EARTH Shuttle Replacement (was: One Small Step...) Space Conference 16-18 October in Columbus, Ohio Space Platforms (political, not physical : -) (2 msgs) Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Sep 92 05:37:31 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: A modest proposal Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Sep17.200858.24457@cs.ucf.edu> clarke@acme.ucf.edu (Thomas Clarke) writes: >Reminds me of a scheme a friend and I batted around once: Rent a GAS >CAN (Shuttle getaway special cannister), fill it with small open glass >vials. Once in orbit, expose the interior to space and seal the vials >with timed resistance heating or some such mechanism. After recovery >mount the vials tastefully on wooden plaques and sell as PERSONAL SPACE. > >I wonder if the treaty Henry cites prohibits the private possession >and commercial sale of bits of nothing returned from space ? Not that I know of. :-) But the NASA regulations on what you can do in GAS cans most assuredly do. (Assuming you could even get a GAS flight opportunity; last I heard they were so horrendously backlogged that it was "don't call us, we'll call you".) -- There is nothing wrong with making | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim| henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: 17 Sep 92 15:56:48 EDT From: "John F. Woods" Subject: Drop nuc waste into sun Newsgroups: sci.space rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu (Jeff Bytof) writes: >John Stevenson asks: >>Why not drop all the longlived nuclear waste into the sun to permanently >>dispose of it? >I would wonder, though, what happens at the Sun to the radioactive >waste. Does it vaporize, and sink to the center? I don't think >it's hot enough, except near the core, to transmute the elements. >Would the materials ionize and get entrained >in the solar wind and just get send back out, possibly towards Earth, >albiet in a highly diluted concentration? It gets vaporized and spewed back out, pretty much in all directions. The Earth subtends essentially 0 degrees of solid angle as seen from the Sun :-) hence would intercept very little of the radioactive waste (certainly less than we started with :-). Note that the Sun *already* spews out *megatons* of radioactive crap toward the Earth in the course of its job of being a gigantic fusion reactor. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Sep 92 21:20:34 GMT From: Richard Treitel Subject: Drop nuc waste into sun Newsgroups: sci.space In article <2AB776BF.791@deneva.sdd.trw.com>, hangfore@spf.trw.com (John Stevenson) writes: |> 2. Launch accidents can be designed for so that the waste material stays |> contained and the container is recovered. If you can convince the eco-Soviets of this, you can probably convince them of the safety of cheaper alternatives! lotsa luck though |> 4. Waste disposal is the single biggest technical problem preventing |> growth in the nuclear power industry. (technical, not pr). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I disagree, but it hardly matters. OBTW, in the spirit of recent discussions, we have a moral duty to begin by making sure that there is no life on/in the Sun that might be disturbed by all these heavy elements arriving. - Richard ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 92 05:25:20 GMT From: David Knapp Subject: Ethics of Terra-forming Newsgroups: sci.space In article <14280@chalmers.se> d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell) writes: >In article <1992Sep17.035122.11105@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp) writes: >>But one question most people forget to ask is 'who was doing the extincting?' >> >>How many species do you know of that: >>3) Causes mass extinctions on a daily basis. >>5) Controls their enviroment, in all aspects, to suit their needs. >>6) Expands to live in every environment on the planet. > > All species that have the capability of doing so. And how many are that? > To make a very silly example, if mooses suddenly would become capable of >living anywhere, escape any predator and plan for the future, I'd expect them >to use all this (especially the last thing) to exapand and spread to their >utmost limits. Yes, that *is* a silly example, because that isn't reality. Why pose silly examples to realistic problems? The only species that can do the above is *man* and *we're* the ones who are discussing what might be similar effects on other planets. >>After considering all these things, we have to conclude that mankind is not >>just your average-joe species is just carrying a long with the rest of them. > > Consistent along the latter history of mankind has been an inflated sense >of self-importance. It seems to have started with the 'in gods image' idea, >moved on to 'crown of creation' and 'lord of nature' and then on to 'most >dangerous animal', 'controls their enviroment, in all aspects, to suit their >needs', 'expands to live in every environment on the planet' and 'most >disruptive influence in the history of the planet'. > > The common theme of all this is obviously a self-congratulatory "We're >Special!"(1). Which, you must admit, we are. At *least* in the areas I've outlined. >>We are a *major* influence here like no othe species before us. > > Changed the environment more than the blue-green algae did? Yes. >reformatted quotes: >>....Mankind is most certainly a special case when you point to 'nature.'.. >>..The power that mankind currently has....You can see the bullet holes all >>around you....*We* decide what is moral....What you see in nature is nothing >>near the result of a 'relatively ignorant' species. What is your point? >>David Knapp University of Colorado, Boulder > >(1) This also has some connection to the question "What's the difference > between George Bush and Noam Chomsky?" where the correct answer is that it > is very small. Both believe that the US is the mightiest country in the > world. Both believe that US domestic politics drives all international > politics. Both believe that the world as it looks today is a creation of > the US. > 1/2:) I don't understand the connection. >-bertil- >-- >"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or > strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an > exercise for your kill-file." >"This is the famous Hasan B Mutlu-trigger, insert it in your .sig file today!" There is certainly no overabundance of clear responses. -- David Knapp University of Colorado, Boulder Perpetual Student knapp@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 92 05:35:46 GMT From: Frank Crary Subject: Ethics of Terra-forming Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Sep18.052520.13785@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp) writes: >> To make a very silly example, if mooses suddenly would become capable of >>living anywhere, escape any predator and plan for the future, I'd expect them >>to use all this (especially the last thing) to exapand and spread to their >>utmost limits. >Yes, that *is* a silly example, because that isn't reality. Why pose silly >examples to realistic problems? I think the point is that humans are no more or less moral, in their treatment of the environment, than any other animal, although the effects of our actions may be more noticable. >>>We are a *major* influence here like no othe species before us. >> Changed the environment more than the blue-green algae did? >Yes. Didn't this radically alter the composition of the atmosphere (raising oxygen from near zero to almost 20%) and thereby cause a huge number of species to become extinct? Are you saying that humans have altered the environment more than this? Frank Crary CU Boulder ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 92 04:30:18 GMT From: Chris Metzler Subject: Hubble's constant Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,sci.physics In article <92260.201515DOCTORJ@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, Jon J Thaler writes: |> This belongs in sci.astro, so I'm crossposting it there. |> |> brooks@ewsvax.mdcbbs.com (Richard J Brooks) says: |> |> > I read this past week about a researcher stating that some measurements |> > indicate that the HUBBLE constant is changing with time. The acticle |> > stated that the change was fast enought that a remeasurement in 2 or 3 year |> > would verify this. |> |> I haven't heard about this, but considering that people can't agree what the |> value of the Hubble constant is to within a factor of two, I'd be surprised |> if there exists any reliable measurement of its time derivative. |> |> > (As a side comment - If my memory is correct, Hubble's constant is used |> > in determining distances in space. Does this mean that the size of the |> > universe is changing?) |> |> In the standard cosmology the first sentence is true. Thus, if the |> "constant" is really changing, either: |> * We're in *BIG* trouble, or |> * The standard picture (big bang, and all that) is wrong. In the standard |> picture, the time derivative is about one part in 10**10 per year. or, this is not right. In the standard hot big bang model, the Hubble constant is a constant in space (the same everywhere), but not time. Some cosmology books make an effort to refer to H_o as the "Hubble parameter," in order to make this clear. A Simple Model of the Hubble Flow --------------------------------- Most people's conception of H_o only extends to the Hubble law: v = H_o * r -- that is, two objects separated by a large distance r are moving apart with respect to each other, and an observer on one of the objects would see the other moving away in a radial direction with velocity v. A simple model can illustrate why the law exists. Consider a circle with radius "a". Two points on the circle, separated by a distance "s" along the circumference of the circle, and on an arc of angle "theta", fulfill the equation s = a * theta This is just high-school geometry (if the two points are at the same place, the angle is 2 * pi, and we have that the circumference of a circle is 2 * pi * its radius). Now, assume further that the points stay fixed on the perimeter of the circle, but THE CIRCLE ITSELF IS EXPANDING -- the radius a is not constant. We then have ds da -- = -- * theta dt dt There is no d(theta)/dt term because we had the points stay fixed. The points are getting farther apart, but only because the circle is expanding, and they are moving along with the expanding circle. But Hey! ds/dt is a velocity! Let's write it as v, the rate at which the two points move apart (the rate at which the space between them is increasing). We have ds da 1 -- = -- * --- * a * theta dt dt a Note that I multiplied the right hand side by 1; I just wrote 1 in the form a/a. Now, a * theta = s! So we have . . . ds ( 1 da) -- = (--- * --) * s dt ( a dt) or v = H * s, where H = (1/a) * da/dt. Bingo! I have a "Hubble Law." At any given instant, the instantaneous rate at which the space between the two points is increasing is proportional to the distance between them. The Time-Evolution of the Hubble Flow ------------------------------------- Now, suppose da/dt is a constant -- that is, the rate at which the radius of my circle is increasing is a constant. Merely looking at the form of H should make it obvious that H will decrease with time. In fact, there is only one functional form for a(t) that will allow H to be a constant. If you've had any calculus, you can easily find what it is. Just set that equation above for H equal to a constant, and solve the differential eqn you have there for a. BUT WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING? -------------------------------------------- In cosmology, one writes the physical coordinates of an object -- the coordinates we observe and experience by looking out our telescope at M87 -- as r = a * x (r and x both vectors) where x is the location of the object in "comoving coordinates" and a is a scale factor. The "expansion of space" corresponds to the fact that "a," our scale factor, is increasing. Two objects which stay fixed in comoving coordinates nonetheless move apart in physical coordinates, because a(t) is increasing with time. Sounds a lot like our circle above, huh? Following the same reasoning, you can derive the Hubble law. So the Hubble "constant" is just (1/a) * da/dt, where a is the scale factor that describes the expansion of spacetime. Is the Hubble "constant" constant in time? Not unless a(t) goes like the function you derived above, when you solved the differential equation. Common wisdom says a(t) currently is going as t^(2/3); that is, 2/3 a(t_2) (t_2) ------ = (---) a(t_1) (t_1) The reason why we think this is true comes shortly. Perhaps the most fundamental equation of the hot big bang model is the First Friedmann Equation, 2 ( 1 da) k 8*pi*G (--- * --) + --- = ------ * rho ( a dt) a^2 3 where a(t) is our friend, the scale factor; k determines whether the universe is open (k<0), closed (k>0), or flat (k=0), G is Newton's constant, and rho(r,t) is the mass-energy density. This is a differential equation for a(t), and if we know k, and we know how rho changes when a(t) changes, then we can solve for a(t). In a matter-dominated universe (rho from matter is much more than rho from anything else), to good accuracy, rho goes as a^(-3), because in our real world, the density is inversely proportional to the volume. If k=0, or if rho is big enough that the curvature term (the one with k) is negligible, then we have a simple first-order differential equation again. You can solve it. That's where t^(2/3) comes from. This is enough. I'm tired. Yes, the Hubble "constant" changes with time in the hot big bang cosmology. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 92 07:56:10 GMT From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey Subject: Modest moon rock proposal Newsgroups: sci.space In article , pgf@srl03.cacs.usl.edu ("Phil G. Fraering") writes: [identity of original poster dropped from Phil's message] > > \Considering how much moon material there is down here, why couldn't a > /few of those rocks be ground into little bits, mounted and sold to the > \people who financed those rides in the first place - i.e., the American > /public. > > [...] one could build an unmanned sample return > mission that tested fuelmaking from native resources in order > to take back as much moon rock as could be auctioned off... I've seen this idea before: in late 1988 or early 1989 the Space Studies Institute ran a little think-tank (I think they called it the Lunar Systems Study or something similar). The purpose was to find a low-cost route to using extraterrestrial resources that could be financed privately. I don't recall all the details, but some features were: --about three automated lander missions --sample return where a portion of the lunar samples would be marketed as souvenirs to help finance the missions --small-scale test experiments in oxygen extraction and other materials processing aboard a lander --a mini-rover road rally, involving several teleoperated rovers, marketed as a sporting event, and perhaps renting out time in the operator's seat as another moneyraiser I would presume that SSI has a report on this. SPACE STUDIES INSTITUTE (609)921-0377 P.O. Box 82, Princeton, NJ 08542 Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey | The restaurant's architect Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory | said every effort had been Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET | made to build McDonald's Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV | 15th outlet in Italy SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS | in harmony with Pompeii. | --Reuters story in *Chicago | Sun-Times*, 18 June 92 ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 92 04:19:52 GMT From: "Michael V. Kent" Subject: NASA Daily News for 09/17/92 (Forwarded) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Sep17.185313.7497@news.arc.nasa.gov> yee@trident.arc.nasa.gov (Peter E. Yee) writes: >Daily News >Thursday, September 17, 1992 24-hour audio service at 202/755-1788 > >NASA Administrator Daniel Goldin will be the keynote speaker at a >luncheon being held in Washington today of the Aerospace Industries >Association of America. The Aerospace Industries Association of America??? It was a good try, but whoever writes these things should really have an acronym list handy. AIAA = American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics. Of course if there are two aerospace societies with the initials AIAA, I've just made a fool of myself on an international network. But I'm not worried. Mike -- Michael Kent kentm@rpi.edu McDonnell Douglas Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute All facts in this post are based on publicly available information. All opinions expressed are solely those of the author. Apple II Forever !! ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 92 08:52:28 GMT From: nicho@VNET.IBM.COM Subject: Population Newsgroups: sci.space In <17SEP199215003347@csa1.lbl.gov> SCOTT I CHASE writes: >You are perhaps the only person on the planet who would identify concern >with the environment with either self-hate or racism. Not the only person. A common theme that runs through all environmental debate is that every other species is more important than Man. ie. It is OK to completely ruin some peoples lives, provided you are saving another species. (I might also point out here, that I have _never_ heard an environmentalist offer to contribute out of their own pocket to assist communities whose livelihoods they intend to destroy) Environmentalists tend to regard Man as seperate from nature, as if we were some alien interlopers, rather than an integral part. Even their choice of language shows this. Yes I regard caring for the environment as simple self interest as well. It can be overdone however. The environment is going to change no matter what. Trying to take a snapshot of a planet's history at one point in time and saying 'This is Nature, let's keep it like this forever' is, at best, pointless. Species come and go, perhaps history will say that we took ourselves too seriously :-) ----------------------------------------------------------------- ** Of course I don't speak for IBM ** Greg Nicholls ... nicho@vnet.ibm.com or nicho@cix.compulink.co.uk voice/fax: 44-794-516038 ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 92 06:32:39 GMT From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey Subject: PUTTING VENUS IN AN ORBIT SIMILAR TO THE ORBIT OF THE EARTH Newsgroups: sci.space In article , henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: > Chaotic orbits don't necessarily imply a situation where a small change > could send planets flying off in all directions. It is quite possible > for an orbit to be chaotic, in the sense that you cannot predict *exactly* > where it will be in a billion years, and still be bounded (either absolutely > or just with high probability), in the sense that you can say that it will > stay *somewhere* between Venus's orbit and Mars's orbit. My impression > is that the recent findings are along those lines: there is no reason ^^^^^ ^^ ^^ ^^^^^^ > to suspect Velikovskian planets-wandering-wildly behavior in either the > past or the future, but small-scale variations appear to be unpredictable > in any practical sense. Yes, there is, if Iowa State University gets control of the solar system! > Agreed that we should put planet-moving work on hold for a few years :-) > until the situation is better understood. Does this mean you're in favor of diverting Galileo, Henry? O~~* /_) ' / / /_/ ' , , ' ,_ _ \|/ - ~ -~~~~~~~~~~~/_) / / / / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap! / \ (_) (_) / | \ | | Bill Higgins Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory \ / Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET - - Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV ~ SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 92 05:49:54 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: Shuttle Replacement (was: One Small Step...) Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space In article <17SEP199216441940@judy.uh.edu> wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov writes: >[747] It is interesting that each time a new >upgrade has been added, the FAA required a new certification program as if >the upgrage was a new plane. Actually, if memory serves, the upgrades do get a somewhat streamlined version of certification. They've still got to demonstrate overall performance characteristics and the like, particularly where the upgrade has affected important characteristics like how hard the brakes have to work to stop the thing, but the airworthiness of the basic design does not have to be re-established all over again. >Also the follow on for the 747 is in the works. It is called the 777... Nope, sorry, you heard wrong. The 777 is indeed in the works, but it is *not* a 747 replacement. Boeing has no plans to stop building the 747 any time in the foreseeable future. The 777 is substantially smaller (although it's a large airliner by anyone *else's* standards). -- There is nothing wrong with making | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim| henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 92 07:07:02 GMT From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey Subject: Space Conference 16-18 October in Columbus, Ohio Newsgroups: sci.space My friends at MSDC have cooked up a great-looking conference this year. Alas, I won't be able to attend this year, but I thought you might be interested in it. I probably can't give you more info if you have questions-- you're better off calling Benny Shoults at (614)548-7743. Bill Higgins Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNALB.BITNET ====================== 8TH ANNUAL MIDWEST SPACE DEVELOPMENT CONFERENCE 1992 October 16-18, 1992 Columbus, Ohio Co-sponsored by Midwest Space Development Corporation, Batelle, and NASA Held at: Holiday Inn, Worthington 175 Hutchinson Dr. Columbus, Ohio 43235 (614)885-3334 Located where I-270 meets route 23 north of Columbus. For hotel rooms, call 1-800-HOLIDAY and ask for "Midwest Space" special rates. SOME HIGH SPOTS OF THE PROGRAM: [where I know more about the speaker than the brochure provides, I've added my own comments in brackets --WSH] FRIDAY Panel on Industrial Opportunities in the Space Sector-- commercial space experts, moderated by Rajiv Kohli of Batelle European Space Agency, Present and Future-- Ian Pryke [ESA's top guy in the States --WSH] Star Party at Perkins Observatory SATURDAY Opening Address-- Frank White, author of *The Overview Effect* SSTO-Delta Clipper-- William Gaubatz, McDonnell Douglas [DC-X's boss --WSH] Nuclear Propulsion-- Michael Doherty, NASA Lewis Space in Arts and Humanities Curricula-- Jeffrey Fiske Martian Imperative-- Tim Stroup, Lockheed Missiles & Space Luncheon-- John Billingham, NASA SETI project Making Mars Relevant-- Jim Plaxco, Planetary Studies Foundation [Chicago-area space activist and lecturer --WSH] Ohio Aerospace Institute-- Donald Bailey, OAI Director of Industrial Programs Space Exploration as Inspiration for Music-- Jane Ira Bloom NASA Today-- Dave Herb, NASA Lewis Banquet: Hubble Space Telescope-- Steven Shore, NASA Goddard SUNDAY Space Station Freedom-- Gary Oleson, NASA [also an activist with L5, NSS, and Space Frontier Foundation, has worked for JPL --WSH] Russian Space Program-- Daniel Gauthier [freelance artist and writer frequently appearing in *AvLeak*, *Ad Astra*, etc. --WSH] International Space University-- Richard Wills [aerospace engineer involved in Ohio company developing new liquid rocket motors --WSH] Seeds of Invention-- Poster Session by conference attendees [they'd like you to contribute if you have an idea! --WSH] Advanced Materials Development-- Frank Jelinek, Batelle EXITUS-- William Avery [Educational effort to teach about lunar bases and space development --WSH] Luncheon-- Lynn Bondurant, NASA Lewis [runs education office there --WSH] Tour of Big Ear Radio Telescope, home of the longest-running SETI program For more information on the MSDC, call Conference Chairman Benny Shoults at (614)548-7743. ======================== REGISTRATION INFORMATION ALL THREE DAYS Advance registration $50 (until 9/28) On-site $60 Student registration $15 (until 9/28) On-site $20 SATURDAY ONLY Education Conference Teacher-only registration (due 10/9/92) $25 Teacher Packages: Education Conference Plus (all 3 days): $40 Education Conference and Banquet: $50 MEALS Friday Evening-- Pizza & Soda $7.50 Saturday Luncheon-- Ham/Cheese Pita & Pasta $9 Roast Beef Pita & Pasta $9 Saturday Banquet-- Sliced Roast Top Sirloin of Beef $25 Chicken Parmesan $25 Sunday Luncheon-- Beef Stroganoff $12 Baked Scrod $12 (Please specify if you wish vegetarian meal substitute) SPECIAL CONFERENCE PACKAGE Includes Registration and All Meals $95 Send check or money order payable to MSDC to: MSDC, 524 W. 6th St. Lakeside OH 43440 USA [Complicated, but I *hope* I got all details right! --WSH] ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 92 01:40:09 GMT From: Peter Johnson Subject: Space Platforms (political, not physical : -) Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.individualism,alt.politics.libertarian isbell@ai.mit.edu (Charles L Isbell) writes: >szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes: >[on radio frequencies] >|Privatization means the current assignments become tradeable >|property rights. Thus, if Barry needed a used spectrum for >|a new radio astronomy experiment, he would go to its owners >|instead of the FCC bureacracy to negotiate purchase or rent of >|time. And vice versa, the FCC couldn't pull somebody's frequencies >|without compensation. Violation of the property would be trespassing >|and treated as violations of assignment are now. International >|treaties wouldn't be effected except to the extent Libertarians can >|renegogiate them to follow the tradeable property rights model. > >You're avoiding the big question by talking about conversion from >*now*. How do you address the question of frequency ownership (from a >purely private view) absent an initial government intervention? > >Let us posit that Star Trek had the right idea and subspace >frequencies exist. When Widget company invents a sub space >communicator, do they immediately own all of the subspace frequencies? >Isn't this, by definition, a monopoly? Must a governmental body first >divide up the frequencies and assign them before a free market >mechanism can be employed? > >What if two weeks later Acme invents a similar device? By using it to >broadcast on the newly discovered subspace frequencies, are they >violating the property rights of Widget? I'm not clear on how this >becomes a practically ownable resource. Seems like air or something. Widget would not automatically own all of the subspace frequencies; rather, Widget would only own the patent rights to its design of a subspace communicator. If Acme incorporates into its design the innovative elements of Widget's communicator which make it unique, then Acme is violating Widget's patent. Acme's design would have to either incorporate existing technology or have innovative parts of its own. There should be no government regulation of who can use what frequency, whether it's in the EM or subspace spectrum. Nor do I object to EM emitters forming a contract among themselves to not emit at certain frequencies of certain power, but that would be called "restraint of trade" or "collusion" under current anti-trust laws. -- Peter Johnson "There are times, sir, when men of good conscience Independent Studies cannot blindly follow orders." --Capt. Jean-Luc University of Waterloo Picard (Patrick Stewart) to Adm. Haftel, STAR TREK: ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 92 03:58:02 GMT From: fsjfz@acad3.alaska.edu Subject: Space Platforms (political, not physical : -) Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space,alt.war In article <14279@chalmers.se>, d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell) writes: > In article <1992Sep16.054900.17022@techbook.com> szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes: >>* Privatize the radio spectrum and orbital slots, and disavow all >> treaties (Sea, Moon, Antartica, etc.) that prohibit private >> property and enterprise in frontier areas. > > That sounds almost as anti-social as when the Soviet union voided all > international agreements (including the Geneva convention) or when the Mullas > in Iran felt they were above worldly stuff like diplomatic status. > > If the US did something like that, and stepped somebody on the toes (like > drowning out others transmissions, crowding out their satelites, and start > drilling for oil in the Norwegian zone (or Russian zone, or Argentinean zone), > I'd expect an international conflict on the level of at least trade war. > >>szabo@techbook.COM Tuesday, November third ## Libertarian $$ vote > > -bertil- i think that privatization of space would be much easier. If US Steel started mining and refining ore (say, nickel or iron) in space, and returning to Earth refined steel, etc. for use it would be hard to come up with a good reason to stop them. (Especially ecologically, assuming a low pollution method of launching/recovering spacecraft). Space, the Moon, etc. is big enough that if anyone started claiming that the resources are for everyone, a private company could simply say something like ``yes, we agree, and in fact that asteroid right over there is just waiting for you to come develop it. Now let us try to get a fair return on the investment we made in getting out here to work.'' At least, that's what i would hope they would say. Of course, some government or other will probably try to claim sovereignty over sections of space once people get out there (well, IF people get out there.) The sea and Antarctica however, are different stories. The sea is becoming dangerously over-utilized as it is, and regulatory controls are needed (IMHO). Antarctica is also valuable to the Earth as a whole, and should be developed very carefully, if at all (also IMHO). As resources planetside become more and more valuable, i think the risk of war over them gets higher. One more reason to take a serious look at what's out there... This reply is going to so many newsgroups i can't hope to read them all, and so i won't. If you disagree, or agree, or want me to clarify something, please e-mail me. James Zuelow FSJFZ@acad3.alaska.edu ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 218 ------------------------------