Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 05:15:54 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V15 #234 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Tue, 22 Sep 92 Volume 15 : Issue 234 Today's Topics: Atlas E and F questions Model ion engine Moving industry into space (was Re: Who went to Rio?) QUERY: Apollo/Landing Module operations satellite construction question Space Platforms (political, not physical : -) Space Platforms (political, not physical : -) [Part 3] Using Electric Rockets for Science (was Re: Ion for Pluto Direct) Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 01:01:46 GMT From: Carl Rigg Subject: Atlas E and F questions Newsgroups: sci.space Can anybody shed some light on the following questions? Every photograph I've seen of an Atlas E or F, appears to have a large second stage. Some references like Isakowitz, identify both Atlas E and F as typical 1.5 stage Atlas configurations, that may be coupled with a variety of second stages. This lists the Atlas Burner 2A configuration as one of the options and shows all of the Atlas Burner flights as Atlas F flights. Some references like Gatland identify both Atlas E and F as 2.5 stage configurations with a TE-M-364 (I seem to remember) as stage 2. Most references decline to comment about Atlas E and F merely implying that they are typical Atlas 1.5 stage configurations. The Vandenberg Launch Summary only identifies Atlas Burner launches as distinct from Burner 2 or Burner 2A configurations. Can anybody identify which launches were which? If Atlas E or F launches implied upper stages can anybody identify which launches used which? thanks Carl ======================================================================= Carl (cwr@theory.asd.sgi.com) (7U-550 415-390-1063) ======================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: 21 Sep 92 23:40:21 GMT From: Charles Pooley Subject: Model ion engine Newsgroups: sci.space In article , PLATT@WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU (DONALDO THE GREAT) writes: > I saw a posting about a voltage multiplier to drive > a model ion engine in the SPACE Digest. I am very interested > in this and was wondering if the person could send me the details? > I tried sending email to the original poster but I cant get his > address to work. Thanks alot! > > > Don Platt > Platt@wcsu.ctstateu.edu Two ideas for quickie HV supplies: The supplies for copy machines can be bought surplus. They produce 10-15 kv dc at 1 ma or so. The nother way is to build a driver for a tv flyback transformer/ rectifier (modern ones have the hv rectifier built in), good for 15 kv for monochrome monitors, over 25 kv for color tv. -- Charles Pooley ckp@netcom.com GEnie c.pooley EE consultant, Los Angeles, CA ------------------------------ Date: 21 Sep 92 21:50:58 GMT From: "Charles J. Divine" Subject: Moving industry into space (was Re: Who went to Rio?) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Sep16.081044.1@fnalf.fnal.gov> higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes: >Think of the industrial activities doing the most damage to the >environment. > >Now think about how much they *weigh*. > >Now think about Planet Earth's launch capacity, which is constantly >being discussed here. > >This will give you some idea of the problem. > (deleted) > >There is industrial activity in space now. There will doubtless be >more. We can hope that costs will come down and space industry will >grow at a rapid rate. But even in the rosiest scenarios, we are a >long, long way from undertaking replacement of any large fraction of >our most environmentally-nasty industries with spacegoing ones. Possibly. Possibly not. The best scenarios I've seen plan to use extraterrestrial materials and supply the earth with energy. Energy production is a dirty industry -- consider how dirty coal is -- digging it up, burning it, dealing with the waste. If we can build extraterrestrial power plants _without_ shipping them up there wholesale, we can begin to make a dent in at least one major polluting industry. The biggest challenge here seems to be reliable, cheap, routine access to space -- something people are actually working on. > >If such replacement ever happens, it will be many, many decades from >now. This may be long enough for the environment to get seriously >worse at current pollution/emission rates. I think we will have to >deal with these problems by cleaning up Earthbound industries, not by >creating space-based ones. Perhaps there will be an interaction between space technology and earth problem solution. Small pieces of space technology have already had major impacts on earth bound problems. Consider comsats...or weather satellites...or thousands of other things. -- Chuck Divine ------------------------------ Date: 21 Sep 92 20:31:04 GMT From: Dennis Newkirk Subject: QUERY: Apollo/Landing Module operations Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Sep21.053111.1@fnalc.fnal.gov> higgins@fnalc.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes: >In article <1992Sep21.015833.13643@rp.CSIRO.AU>, jdeane@rp.CSIRO.AU (John Deane) writes: >> I _REALLY_ enjoyed "The Space Shuttle Operator's Manual" >> something slightly >> similar for Apollo and the LM. Does anyone know if such a thing >> was ever published? > >1) Of the available literature, what comes closest, and >Bill Higgins I think the Apollo CSM News Reference and LM News Reference are pretty close. The folks who publish 'World Spaceflight News' used to sell copies for a reasonable price. Their address is Box 98, Sewell, NJ 08080-0098. Dennis Newkirk (dennisn@ecs.comm.mot.com) Motorola Inc, Land Mobile Products Sector Schaumburg, IL ------------------------------ Date: 21 Sep 92 22:37:40 GMT From: "G. Scott Smith" Subject: satellite construction question Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Sep20.181113.13434@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> kca@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (k.c.archie) writes: >Over dinner last night, a friend wondered if satellites had air in them. >If they do and are airtight, they must be built to withstand the >pressure in space. If they are evacuated, they must withstand the >pressure on earth. >Since I assume they are built in a room at standard pressure, >do they have pressure relief valves for when they get into orbit >(or is that onto orbit?) or are they built to withstand the pressure? >Thanks for any answers. Satellites are built with holes in them. When they are launched into space all the air evacuates and the vehicle operates in a vacuum. Fuel tanks and other hardware that requires pressurization are constructed to handle both the atmospheric pressure and the vacuum of space. An interesting note. The outgassing of the materials that the vehicle is made out of can take a long time, and if not taken into account, can mess up the payload that the spacecraft is using (this doesn't mean it will, just can:-)). Another interesting note. One of the biggest menace to a new spacecraft is the particulates introduced into the interior of the vehicle before it is launched. That is why millions of dollars are spent keeping the things clean. Hope this answers your question. Scott -- Scott Smith |Ozman's First Law: If someone says he will do | something "without fail", | they won't. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Sep 92 00:57:26 GMT From: Nancy Lebovitz Subject: Space Platforms (political, not physical : -) Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space,alt.politics.marrou,alt.politics.libertarian Science betting sounds like an excellent idea to me--I can't see that it would make anything worse, and it should make a few things better. I appreciate the detail you've put into working it out. ---Nancy Lebovitz ------------------------------ Date: 21 Sep 92 20:04:04 GMT From: Thant Tessman Subject: Space Platforms (political, not physical : -) [Part 3] Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space,alt.politics.marrou,alt.politics.libertarian where it might be practical. Reputation scores offer an new way to evaluate people's ability to separate the wheat from the chaff in ideas and arguments, and these scores should depend less on whether one has curried favor from the right people. Idea futures is well-grounded in our best theories of decision and incentives. Once legal and accepted, idea futures could grow incrementally, and perhaps dramatically increase our rate of scientific progress per funding spent. CONCLUSION Markets in contingent assets, more commonly known as "bets", offer a needed alternative to existing academic institutions. Betting markets cannot solve all current problems, or replace all current institutions. But if this paper has been successful, the potential of such markets should be clear, and most of the obvious problems with such markets should have been addressed in enough detail that we can say the idea still seems plausible on a closer examination. If so, more serious intellectual discussion is justified, and perhaps some small-scale experiments. We could do much worse than having intellectual institutions as open, flexible, diverse, and egalitarian as the stock market, with incentives as well-grounded and with estimates on important issues as unbiased and predictive. ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS These ideas germinated in the fertile ground of discussions with friends interested in similar problems, most of whom are associated in one way or another with the company Xanadu. K. Eric Drexler, Mark Miller, and Phil Salin have been particularly influential. And my wife Peggy Jackson has influenced me in more ways than I know. Several hundred people, more than I can list here, have provided useful comments and criticisms on all aspects of the idea. REFERENCES [APA] (1987) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders Third Edition, Revised, American Psychiatric Association, Washington D.C. [Be] Bernal, J. 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(1990) "Risk Within Reason", Science, 248, May 4, pp.559-564. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Sep 92 20:06:14 GMT From: Steinn Sigurdsson Subject: Using Electric Rockets for Science (was Re: Ion for Pluto Direct) Newsgroups: sci.space In article amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk writes: > The right thing is for NASA, or ESA, to get serious on proving > electric propulsion (I mean for interplanetary purposes) by flying a > serious mission that employs it... perhaps an asteroid rendezvous or > multiple flyby. But such missions can *also* be flown with chemical What I've been trying to say is: why don't we call an engineering test an engineering test? Set up a mission whose purpose is to thoroughly shake down an ion engine. Then, invite scientific instruments with the caveat that they are simply along for the ride and will return data so long as they don't get in the way of the primary mission. When the engineers are satisfied with their baby, and when the scientists feel it is "off the shelf" THEN is can be used in missions that are primarily science oriented. The way we do things now is the worst of both worlds: let science be science and engineering be engineering. In reality everybody would scream about the lack of scientific justification for such a mission, and that they should do X, Y and Z while they're out there or we won't support the funding proposal, and then complain that the mission profile is risking the incredibly valuable scientific goals X,Y,Z and why not do it using old and tried technology, and then complain that it was either over budget and overweight and Z(no X) should be cut, or the mission fails and the critical science objective "W" was lost and clearly NASA are just a bunch of Incompetent Idiot Bureacrats (TM). | Steinn Sigurdsson |I saw two shooting stars last night | | Lick Observatory |I wished on them but they were only satellites | | steinly@lick.ucsc.edu |Is it wrong to wish on space hardware? | | "standard disclaimer" |I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care - B.B. 1983 | ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 234 ------------------------------