Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 05:09:12 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V15 #267 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Thu, 1 Oct 92 Volume 15 : Issue 267 Today's Topics: another sad anniversary (5 msgs) Clinto and Space Funding (2 msgs) Help! Need bitmaps (or good photographs) of planets viewed from earth Information Wanted Nick Szabo Disinformation debunking (Re: Clinton and Space Funding) Pluto,Galileo instruments(was Re: Mariner Mark II vs smaller missions) Russia's OPERATIONAL Starwars Defense System (2 msgs) Socialist myths about investment Space and Presidential Politics (3 msgs) Space platforms (political, not physical :-) The Latest on DC-X Funding Who pays for SEI studies? (was Re: Lunar landing in 2002) Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Sep 92 18:57:18 GMT From: "Michael V. Kent" Subject: another sad anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: > >On 30 Sept 1977, the surviving Apollo lunar surface instruments -- left by >Apollos 12, 15, 16, and 17 -- were turned off by ground command, because >money could no longer be found to receive and record their data. Why on earth did they turn them off? Maybe stop listening for a while, but why turn them off? What if they had wanted to listen again sometime in the future? Mike -- Michael Kent kentm@rpi.edu McDonnell Douglas Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute All facts in this post are based on publicly available information. All opinions expressed are solely those of the author. Apple II Forever !! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 19:23:48 GMT From: Doug Mohney Subject: another sad anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space In article , henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >Fifteen years ago today, for the first time, NASA deliberately switched off >instruments on another planet that were still returning good data and gave >every prospect of continuing to do so for years. It was done to save money. > >On 30 Sept 1977, the surviving Apollo lunar surface instruments -- left by >Apollos 12, 15, 16, and 17 -- were turned off by ground command, because >money could no longer be found to receive and record their data. Obviously, we should have asked Canada for money to keep them running. Play in the intelluctual sandbox of Usenet -- > SYSMGR@CADLAB.ENG.UMD.EDU < -- ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 92 21:11:28 GMT From: Richard Ottolini Subject: another sad anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space In article kentm@aix.rpi.edu (Michael V. Kent) writes: >In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >> >>On 30 Sept 1977, the surviving Apollo lunar surface instruments -- left by >>Apollos 12, 15, 16, and 17 -- were turned off by ground command, because >>money could no longer be found to receive and record their data. > >Why on earth did they turn them off? Maybe stop listening for a while, but >why turn them off? What if they had wanted to listen again sometime in the >future? Same reason they turned off the Magellan radar- to save money. Magellan could have collected radar images for another 243-day cycle or two, for the cost of a few percent of the original mission. (The attenna was becoming less reliable although). ------------------------------ Date: 1 Oct 92 05:06:22 GMT From: Ron Baalke Subject: another sad anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space In article , henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes... >Fifteen years ago today, for the first time, NASA deliberately switched off >instruments on another planet that were still returning good data and gave >every prospect of continuing to do so for years. It was done to save money. > >On 30 Sept 1977, the surviving Apollo lunar surface instruments -- left by >Apollos 12, 15, 16, and 17 -- were turned off by ground command, because >money could no longer be found to receive and record their data. >-- May 15, 1993 may mark another sad anniversary. That's when Magellan is scheduled to be turned off. It will be the first time that NASA has turned off a functioning spacecraft. NASA has recently communicated to JPL that this will still happen. The reason is similiar, to save money. ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | Quiet people aren't the /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | only ones who don't say |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | much. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 1992 19:24:53 GMT From: Jeff Bytof Subject: another sad anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space >Why on earth did they turn them off? Maybe stop listening for a while, but >why turn them off? What if they had wanted to listen again sometime in the >future? It's possible that the Plutonium power supplies are now delivering less than adequate power for nominal operation. Jeff Bytof rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 92 13:47:33 From: Steinn Sigurdsson Subject: Clinto and Space Funding Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space In article amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk writes: > and getting your medical > system sorted. You can lambast the UK and other Eropean countries for having > doctrinally unsound socialised (gasp!) medical systems, but the fact is *our > health services are ****cheaper***** in terms of GNP than yours. Having experienced both, I prefer the US one. In three years here I have yet to recieve a call from my doctor. Wellness programs are unheard of. And if you need certain classes of operations, you are best off flying to the US and paying for it because you might be dead before your turn in the queue comes up. There ARE NO QUEUES in the US. When a government controls the allocation of resources, they are either under or over supplied. Having experienced both I prefer the British system, and I prefer the Scandinavian system to either. To say that there are no queues in the US for health care services is as ludicrous a claim as I have yet seen on Usenet. What is true is that if you are in one of limited occupations, especially a public University or a rich private University, or if you have money/good credit you will get immediate health care in most places - until your coverage or cash runs out, and if the care is not intrinisically supply limited (eg. organ transplants). Of course unless you're part of a very powerful customer base, like UC, you better not plan on getting ill again or being chronically ill as you become uninsurable, in large part due to a very peculiar attitude in the US that insurance actually involves more of a pre-payment installation scheme rather than actual insurance (in which a large fraction of the contributors by definition do not recoup their contributions). If you are not one of the fortunate group you are essentially limited to heavily supply limited charity and enormously expensive emergency services, leading to a large fraction of the population receiving most of their health care as emergency services, often for routine maladies that had to wait treatment until they constituted an emergency. The US health care system is neither caring nor systematic and quite unhealthy. * Steinn Sigurdsson Lick Observatory * * steinly@lick.ucsc.edu "standard disclaimer" * * I know people whose idea of fun * * Is throwing stones in the river in the afternoon sun * * Oh let me be as free as them * * - BB 1986 * ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 92 18:18:08 GMT From: Gary Coffman Subject: Clinto and Space Funding Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Sep29.110902.9094@vax.oxford.ac.uk> clements@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes: > >I would suggest one area that need serious consideration are lung cancer >subsidies (ie. the money given to the tobacco producers which goes to subsidise I can't let this old chestnut pass. Tobacco is the *one* agricultural product where growers do *not* receive money from the government. It is the one program that works because the government limits the amount of tobacco a given producer can sell. This keeps supply low enough that it sells at a profit. The government does *not* pay a subsidy to the farmer. Instead a clerk at the ACS office fills out a permit once a year, about 5 minutes of government clerk time goes to each tobacco farmer in the district. That's *it*. Gary ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:32:02 GMT From: David Knapp Subject: Help! Need bitmaps (or good photographs) of planets viewed from earth Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,alt.sci.planetary Hello, I'm seeking earth based photographs or graphics files of Jupiter or Mars taken from ground based telescopes. I need, yes, *mediocre* quality and they need to be large in number over short time durations. Any help or pointers to where I can find these would be *greatly* appreciated. -- David Knapp University of Colorado, Boulder Perpetual Student knapp@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 92 19:27:50 GMT From: "John H. Rydzewski" Subject: Information Wanted Newsgroups: sci.space I am looking for information on a research project that involves putting a man in a boat for 400 days to see the effects of isolation on mental health. A paper discussing this project was presented at the World Space Congress in Washington, D.C., this past August. All I have is the schedule of the talks from this conference and would like to learn more about it. From what I was told from someone who attended the conference, NASA Goddard is involved with it...if anyone has information about this project, please email me at either of the addresses below. Thanks, John Rydzewski rydzewjh@sun.soe.clarkson.edu rydzewjh@craft.camp.clarkson.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:44:39 GMT From: Paul Dietz Subject: Nick Szabo Disinformation debunking (Re: Clinton and Space Funding) Newsgroups: sci.space This thread *does* seem to generate a lot of misinformation! It has little to do with space now, so followups to sci.energy. In article <1992Sep30.063341.12719@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes: > Much of Eastern coal is high sulphur that costs more to pollution > control. Subsurface mines are closing in the East. Alabama, West > Virginia, Kentucky, and Pennsylvania now have less subsurface mining > activity than in the 1970s. Total coal output in Alabama, West Virginia and Kentucky is *higher* than in the 1970s. From the 1991 Statistical Abstracts of the US (which has information up to 1989): Production by year (mil. short tons) State 1970 1975 1980 1989 --------------------------------------------- West Virgina 144.1 109.3 121.6 151.2 Kentucky 125.3 143.6 150.1 158.6 Alabama 20.6 22.6 26.4 28.5 Pennsylvania and Ohio output is down, however. I don't have a subsurface mining breakdown by state, but nationwide subsurface output has not declined, although its share of the market has declined (1989 figure is preliminary): Year 1970 1975 1980 1985 1989 Subsurface mine output 339 293 338 350 394 (million short tons) > lack of market for their coal. Our coal exports have declined as Japan and > other trading partners switch to more nuclear power generation and more > modern electric steel furnaces. According to the US Statistical Abstract, 1988 (the last year for which figures were listed) the US exported 94.9 mil. short tons of coal. This is less than 1981 or 1982 (when the exports were 106.5 and 105.6 mil. sh. tons, respectively), but higher than any other years listed, and considerably higher than any year in the 1970s. Figures listed for importing countries show that coal imports by Western Europe/mediterranian countries and by Japan are growing, not shrinking. Japan imported 64.5 mill. short tons in 1979, and 111.5 mill. short tons in 1988. Western Europe/Med imports grew from 107.4 to 147.0 in that time. Total world trade in coal increased from 254.9 mill. short tons in 1979 to 411 mill. short tons in 1988. The US market share did not increase more because of increased competition from South Africa, Australia, China, the (former) Soviet Union and Canada. > It's ironic that environmentalists fought the steel > industry's belching smokestacks, and now the belching is coming from power > plants forced to use coal by their protests. Meanwhile the primary energy > efficiency of the steel industry has declined because of the intermediate > conversion losses from coal to heat to electricity and back to heat. In fact, using coal to make electricity, then using that electricity to melt scrap steel, is *more* efficient that refining steel from iron ore. It's also much cheaper, and suited to small, nimble, low overhead companies, which is why it has caught on. A typical modern blast furnace (no. 6 BF at Chiba, Kawasaki Steel Corp) uses 17.44 GJ of primary energy input to make one ton of iron. The energy required to raise 1 ton of iron from room temperature to melting (and to melt it) is about 1.2 GJ/ton. Even with losing 2/3 of the energy of coal in making and distributing the electricity, and tossing in a factor of 2 (let's say) in additional inefficiencies, melting the scrap is more efficient. Paul F. Dietz dietz@cs.rochester.edu ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 92 07:57:49 GMT From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey Subject: Pluto,Galileo instruments(was Re: Mariner Mark II vs smaller missions) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Sep29.183546.19693@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: > The proposed Pluto mission will spend no more than $400 million on two > spacecraft. That would suggest a ~$200 - $250 cost for a single instrument > sapcecraft. Two and a half instruments: 1. Imager (also sensitive in the IR) 2. Ultraviolet "occultation" spectrometer (only looks at absorption when sunlight passes through Pluto's atmosphere, as the spacecraft moves behind Pluto; not sensitive enough to look at aurora, lightning, or other faint sources as Voyager or Galileo UVS can) 2.5 Radio science (because of power limitations, rather than using spacecraft transmitter as a beacon and monitoring signal strength on the ground during occultation, the spacecraft will listen to a signal beamed from the DSN; half an instrument, because receiver can be part of spacecraft's comm system) > I suspect the Galileo mission (which I have a detailed > instrument breakdown for) would require about seven or eight such > spacecraft to meet the same goals. That would suggest $1.5-2 billion > dollars to accoplish a Mariner Mark II mission using several small > spacecraft. I don't recall the current Cassini/Huygens budget, but > I don't think this is a huge savings. No. Cassini and CRAF together were growing to over a billion when CRAF was killed, I think. Cassini's been recently "descoped" in major ways. See the latest issue of *JBIS* for a detailed description of the mission and many of its instruments. On the other hand, Galileo does break down into at least two spacecraft in a rather obvious way: the orbiter and the "probe" entry capsule. Also, the orbiter carries magnetometer, particle, and dust instruments on a spinning bus, and imager, IRIS, two UV spectrometers, and a photopolarimeter on a scan platform despun with a motor turning 24 hours a day on a tricky coupling. One could imagine a small cheap spinner, and a fancier 3-axis spacecraft, carrying the two instrument loads. As Anita points out, you sacrifice the coordinated observations of having all the instruments together on the same spacecraft; in a NASA running on FCB budgets, you probably don't even fly all these spacecraft to Jupiter (or wherever) in the same year. Moira Higgins on astronomy: Bill Higgins "I can always find Orion. Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory Besides that the Moon Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV is my only other specialty." Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 92 17:14:20 GMT From: Dave Jones Subject: Russia's OPERATIONAL Starwars Defense System Newsgroups: sci.space Nick Haines (nickh@CS.CMU.EDU) wrote: : I love this guy. Best laugh of the morning. : : Nick I was wondering if his BS stood for Bachelor of Science or something else. Speaking of BS, check out soc.culture.british, "VNS News for 30 Sept." for details of Clintons leap onto the e-mail bandwagon. -- ||)) There is no truth to the rumor that:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))| ||)) Lotus are suing Apple for copying the look and feel of their lawsuits )| ||))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))| ||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com) | Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:54:31 -0400 From: David O Hunt Subject: Russia's OPERATIONAL Starwars Defense System Newsgroups: sci.space Whatever he's smoking, I WANT SOME! David Hunt - Graduate Slave | My mind is my own. | Towards both a Mechanical Engineering | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and Carnegie Mellon University | <<>> | Jewish homeland! ====T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=========T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D===== Email: bluelobster+@cmu.edu Working towards my "Piled Higher and Deeper" "Out there is a fortune waiting to be had; do you think I'd let it go you're mad - you got another think coming!" -- Judas Priest ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:36:35 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: Socialist myths about investment Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Sep30.075012.13357@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes: >...the pioneers often go broke and it is those who stand on their shoulders >who profit. You are like someone belittling Goddard because it was >Von Braun who capitalized on his work... Although I agree with Gary's general point, this is a poor example. The early practical development of rockets in both Germany and the US did not owe much to Goddard except a few bits of basic concept and inspiration, because Goddard published hardly anything about his later work. Von Braun drew much more on the early experimental work of the VfR -- which he was personally involved in -- than on Goddard's more advanced but little-known efforts. -- There is nothing wrong with making | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim| henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 92 18:40:06 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: Space and Presidential Politics Newsgroups: sci.space In article amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk writes: >I also think Dan Goldin is possibly NASA's last hope. It would be the >act of a low grade moron with the mental cabilities of an amoeba to >replace him. My sources within the Clinton campaign say that Clinton is likely to keep Goldin (who is, after all, a registered democrat). Wether a Gore run space council will support Goldin as well as the current space council is at best an open question. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they | | aws@iti.org | put a man on the Moon?" | +----------------------206 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 92 20:00:44 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: Space and Presidential Politics Newsgroups: sci.space In article pgwres01@ucs.usl.edu (Fraering Philip G) writes: >\My sources within the Clinton campaign... >Allen, I have a question for you: >How do you get "sources?" Generally from other sources :-) Usually if I know who I want to talk to I call them and try them directly or via their staff. I explain to them about the column I write and ask if they can give me information. Generally they appreciate that somebody is helping them do what they want to do and help. Frequently as I work with them on one issue, other issues come up and they connect me with other sources who can help with that issue. Often these people will only talk on condition I never use their name. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they | | aws@iti.org | put a man on the Moon?" | +----------------------206 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:19:46 GMT From: Fraering Philip G Subject: Space and Presidential Politics Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Sep30.184006.8937@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes: \My sources within the Clinton campaign say that Clinton is likely to /keep Goldin (who is, after all, a registered democrat). Wether a Gore \run space council will support Goldin as well as the current space /council is at best an open question. Allen, I have a question for you: How do you get "sources?" -- Phil Fraering pgwres01@ucs.usl.edu --------------------- Disclaimer: Some reasonably forseeable events may exceed this message's capability to protect from severe injury, death, widespread disaster, astronomically significant volumes of space approaching a state of markedly increaced entropy, or taxes. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 92 20:19:26 GMT From: Jim Mann Subject: Space platforms (political, not physical :-) Newsgroups: sci.space In article amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk writes: > > Intersting. Our society is now freer than at any time in our > > history. Books that could not have been published 50 years ago > > are published. People can say or do things in public that would > > > > > Can you spell... W a r O n D r u g s? > > How about the simple freedom to live on one's own property and do as > one pleases. (ie, let the grass grow wild if you want, outlawed in > some communities; water it on Sunday, outlawed in some parts of > Germany I believe...) Note that I said "freer" meaning "more free" than it was 150 years ago. Yes, there are still some restrictions on what you can do, even on your own property. Sometimes there are good reasons for this. If my neighbor begins dumping old cars and refrigerators in his front yard, my property value goes down, the neighborhood becomes less liveable, etc. Since his actions affect those around him, he can't be 100% free. > > How about the freedom of contract between consenting adults? What specifically are you refering to. I know that in some circles minimum wage laws are considered a violation of this freedom (and a conservative supreme court once struck such laws down on this basis). > > I see some brilliant ideas of Paine, Jefferson and Franklin that were > quickly co-opted by Madison and others with more Statist leanings. > And not to mention that the seeds of conflict were sown from the > first day by failing to apply that Bill of Rights equally to all, > regardless of sex or race. If not for that mistake the USA might very > well still be something close to laissez faire. Perhaps you should go back and read more about Madison. Madison was heavily influenced by Jefferson. Where they differed tended to be more that Madison was more practical. As for Jefferson, he sometimes had very statist leanings. Look at the Burr trial. Or look at some of the laws Jefferson used while governor of Virginia (very similar to John Adams' infamous Alien and Sedition Acts). -- Jim Mann Stratus Computer jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:17:17 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: The Latest on DC-X Funding Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space The Defense Appropriations Conference Committee is nearing completion of its work. The person responsible for transfering DC-X funds to NLS has told a couple of people that he has removed the section of the report which transfers the funds. If this doesn't change, then DC-X is safe for the forseeable future. However, things can happen so keep those cards and letters coming in. Thanks to those who have written and called. You did make a difference. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they | | aws@iti.org | put a man on the Moon?" | +----------------------206 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 92 19:48:48 GMT From: Edmund Hack Subject: Who pays for SEI studies? (was Re: Lunar landing in 2002) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Sep29.123542.1@fnalf.fnal.gov> higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes: >In article <1654@hsvaic.boeing.com>, eder@hsvaic.boeing.com (Dani Eder) writes: >> >> NASA has maintained an office for the past several years at the >> Johnson Space Center in Houston, TX dedicated to planning the >> Lunar and Mars exploration programs. [...] >> >> Most of the work on these plans has been done in-house by NASA people. >> My company (and I assume other aerospace companies) maintain groups >> doing parallel work on company funds. This is speculative on our part, >> in the hope that a real program will develop at some point. >> >> For the past couple of years NASA has requested funding to start to >> pay contractors to work on these projects. The US Congress has seen >> fit to deny these requests except at the most minimal levels >> ($1 million per year). > >Dani, I have wondered how all this work gets paid for, since Congress >has voted essentially nothing for the Space Exploration Initiative. >You give part of the answer: some of the work is company-funded. >But, judging from the papers and conferences I see, there are really >quite a lot of people working on SEI-type stuff. How does NASA pay >for in-house work? Is there a non-SEI source of funds for this? Yes. The work I have done on FLO and other mission studies has been paid out of discretionary funds. Each center and the sub-organizations within a center (here at JSC they are the Directorates and the Divisions) has a certain amount of discetionary funds that can be allocated to "think tank" studies. There are also explicit funds for advanced mission studies. > >I also feel that such companies as Eagle Engineering and SAIC seem to >do a lot of this work for their size. Can it all be internally >funded, or is there a source of NASA money for it, or are they getting >contracts from Boeing, Martin Marrietta, etc.? These companies are often sub-contractors to primes such as Rockwell (Shuttle at JSC), MacDac (prime for SSF) and Lockheed Engineering & Sciences (my employer - support to JSC's Engineering Directorate). They are useful for short term work that you don't want to hire and fire someone for, for specialized expertise you don't want to maintain in-house and since several of these are small or small disadvantaged businesses (use of SB and SDBs are required as part of our contracts.) -- Edmund Hack - Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co. - Houston, TX hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov - I speak only for myself, unless blah, blah.. Papoon for President - You Know He's Not Insane! - Endorsed by the American Friends of the Martian Space Party, League of Winged Voters ------------------------------ Received: from VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU by isu.isunet.edu (5.64/A/UX-2.01) id AA18998; Wed, 30 Sep 92 15:38:25 EDT Received: from crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu by VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU id ab10130; 30 Sep 92 15:27:46 EDT To: bb-sci-space@CRABAPPLE.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU Path: crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news.harvard.edu!ogicse!uwm.edu!wupost!uunet!utcsri!utzoo!henry From: Henry Spencer Newsgroups: sci.space Subject: Re: What is this ? Message-Id: Date: 30 Sep 92 17:25:00 GMT Article-I.D.: zoo.BvEJ1q.Mw1 References: Organization: U of Toronto Zoology Lines: 13 Sender: news@CRABAPPLE.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU Source-Info: Sender is really isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU In article PHARABOD@FRCPN11.IN2P3.FR writes: >>>Have the U.S. some kind of RPV with such performances ? >> >>If so, it is secret, so why bother asking? > >Because here in Western Europe, we don't like behavior in the KGB style, >especially when it's over our heads... Well, maybe it was the Russians ? Probably not... but you've missed my point. I wasn't saying "why do you care?". I was saying "do you seriously think you'll get an answer?". -- There is nothing wrong with making | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim| henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 267 ------------------------------