Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 17:02:46 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V15 #274 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Sat, 3 Oct 92 Volume 15 : Issue 274 Today's Topics: "Hearing" meteors with your FM radio? (Repost) NASA Langley Open House another sad anniversary (3 msgs) Blue Danube Clinton and Space Funding Controversy over V-2 anniversary (2 msgs) ephemeris data for NOAA sats Galileo Update - 10/01/92 Laser Space Mirror Magellan Update - 10/01/92 Mars Observer orbit (2 msgs) Military funding NASA Langley Open House Psalms from outer space? Socialist myths about investment Spinoffs...political, not R&D Toutatis impact in 2000 AD? (was Re: Help !) Wealth in Space (Was Re: Clinton and Space Funding) Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: "Hearing" meteors with your FM radio? Newsgroups: sci.space Message-Id: <1992Oct1.151906.9506@pixel.kodak.com> From: Dave Jones Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:19:06 GMT Sender: news@pixel.kodak.com References: <1992Oct1.140818.1290@cbfsb.cb.att.com> Organization: :noitazinagrO X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] Lines: 22 Source-Info: Sender is really news@CRABAPPLE.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU Source-Info: Sender is really isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU robert.f.casey (wa2ise@cbnewsb.cb.att.com) wrote: : Last night, my downstairs neighbor in my apartment complex left their : bathroom vent fan running all night, and it makes an annoying low : frequency rumble. Figured I could mask it some with some white noise : using my FM clock radio tuned to an empty frequency. Occasionally, : I would hear a station fade in, become clear, then fade out, all in : about 10 seconds. I once saw, many years ago, a short blurb in Sky : & Telescope (an astronomy mag) using your FM broadcast receiver and : a directional antenna tuned to a station normally out of range to : observe meteors. I suppose I accidently observed meteors last night : (Sept 30th). Possibly, although short-lived phenomena in the ionosphere, such as "sporadic-E" (transient formation of ion clouds in the E layer) also have an effect on long-distance reception of VHF signals. UK hobbyists used to use this to pick up USSR TV broadcasts. -- ||)) There is no truth to the rumor that:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))| ||)) Lotus are suing Apple for copying the look and feel of their lawsuits )| ||))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))| ||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com) | Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 15:21:11 GMT From: "Patrick S. Golden" Subject: (Repost) NASA Langley Open House Newsgroups: sci.space NASA Langley Open House October 17, 1992 The public is invited to help NASA Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. celebrate its 75th anniversary with an open house Saturday October 17, from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. Visitors will see dynamic flight simulators, tour real wind tunnels where future aircraft concepts are being tested, see the futuristic HL-20 "space taxi," see a dozen different displays, including space exploration, future cockpit and windshear avoidance, and see laboratories for structures, acoustics, robotics and more. Come to the birthplace of America's aeronautics and space programs and see the facilities that have put Langley in the forefront of aerospace technology for 75 years. Admission if free. -- |-------------------------------| |++Patrick Golden++ | |Virginia Space Grant Consortium| |Hampton, VA 23666 | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:52:06 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: another sad anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1adn73INNrkb@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher) writes: >How do you save money by turning off a spacecraft or an instrument on the moon, >is someone charging for the bandwith they take up in the electromagnetic >spectrum? :-) You save money by stopping control and data collection activities here on Earth. At which point you have a choice: leave the transmitters on, perhaps to interfere with future space activities, or turn them off. The usual choice is to turn them off. >... Why not get some amatures/groups >around the world to take on the projects? For most of these things, amateurs simply do not have the resources to make any useful contribution. DSN's antennas are *not* small and their receivers are *not* cheap; I doubt very much that the best amateur setup on Earth could get any useful data back from Magellan, quite apart from the problem of doing anything with it afterward (those pretty radar maps require very large amounts of computing). Bear in mind, also, that you get useful data back only with a team of specialists keeping an eye on the spacecraft and telling it what to do. Especially for ailing birds like Magellan that have to be nursed along carefully. Mostly, this sort of thing is just an order of magnitude beyond what could be done informally. The number of organizations which have the equipment and technical expertise is extremely small, and they all have their own work to do. The Apollo lunar instruments might have been an exception. They weren't complex, they were mostly just sitting there sending data, and they were close enough that a *really good* amateur setup might have been able to receive from them. Continued operation just might have been within reach of amateur efforts, barely. -- There is nothing wrong with making | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim| henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:40:37 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: another sad anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space In article kentm@aix.rpi.edu (Michael V. Kent) writes: >Why on earth did they turn them off? Maybe stop listening for a while, but >why turn them off? What if they had wanted to listen again sometime in the >future? The normal rule is to switch them off while you still can. They would die eventually, and if the receiver dies first, then the transmitter stays in whatever state it was left in (probably). There is concern about spectrum pollution from transmitters that can't be shut off. -- There is nothing wrong with making | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim| henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 1 Oct 1992 11:31:31 MST From: ASNTB@ASUACAD.BITNET Subject: another sad anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space Why were the Apollo seismometers turned off as opossed to simply not listening to them anymore? I don't see how turning them off would save any momey. Furthermore, the latter option would have provided the opportunity to have listened in later if money became available. Nathan Bridges Menlo Park, CA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:39:51 GMT From: Dillon Pyron Subject: Blue Danube Newsgroups: sci.space I'm sitting here on hold to DEC CSC, listening to the Blue Danube Waltz on their hold music. For some strange reason, I have visions of sleek Pan Am (RIP) 'liners slowly spinning across a starfield. Have I gone nuts, or should I put up my 2001 tape for a while? -- Dillon Pyron | The opinions expressed are those of the TI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support | sender unless otherwise stated. (214)462-3556 (when I'm here) | (214)492-4656 (when I'm home) |"Repay kindness from a stranger by kindness pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com | to another stranger." PADI DM-54909 ------------------------------ Date: 1 Oct 92 16:08:25 GMT From: Michael Wallis Subject: Clinton and Space Funding Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,talk.politics.space,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman) writes: > Dennis, we are planning to return to the Moon, though that depends a > lot on the outcome of the current political race. However, we're not > yet ready for a new Hudson's Bay Company. We still need a few more of > those dreaded *scientific* missions to tell us the lay of the land. > My understanding of the Lunar Prospector was that it was to be such > a scientific spy mission. > > The Hudson's Bay Company is not a bad model for Lunar development. > It had a government franchise and private funding. The question is, > what will be the lunar equivalent of beaver pelts? We need to know > that before we can mount a significant commercial venture. The advantage the "company of gentlemen explorers" had is that the territory had been explored a bit and they knew there was something there of value. We are NOT at the point where they were when they started. We'll need a lot more lunar exploration before we're there, both manned and robotic. ANY start in that direction is a good start. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Michael Wallis -> mwallis@clubzen.fidonet.org PLAN: Live fast, die young, leave a neat corpse. Oh ... I'm too old to die young? Rats! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:16:48 GMT From: Frank Crary Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Sep30.152152.8749@di.unipi.it> campo@sunthpi3.difi.unipi.it writes: >Well, one of the main purposes of the Rome Treaty was to make European >countries economies so inter-related to make war in Europe impossible. >A union will be even better (remember that Virginia and Mariland were >very close to war in the colonial period...) Actually, the only thing Virginia and Maryland ever came close to was a _trade_ war (e.g. heavily taxing each other's exports...) Frank Crary CU Boulder ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 21:20:34 BST From: amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary > of the celebration yesterday. It was replaced by a minor commemorative > meeting with technical lectures, but also presentations of the negative > aspects of the V-2 as weapon in WWII. > I've been watching this in the papers. I find it sad that there is such a fuss over a weapon that killed 3000 people in the UK... and yet there is a statue to "Bomber Harris", a man who could go down in history as one of the great mass murderers of WWII. His tactic of night time random bombing of civilians killed orders of magnitude more people than anything that happened at Penemunde, EVEN if there were slave laborers killed there. Which is more callous: shooting a conscript worker in the head or intentionally firebombing random residential and business areas*. If there is a moral difference, I sure as hell don't see it. The bombing of Dresden was one of the greatest crimes against humanity in history. I put it in the same class as Auschwitz. Even the bombing of Hiroshima had an alibi: it did indeed make a costly (in american lives) invasion unnecessary and ended the war in short order. One can at least debate on that question. But Dresden was mass bombed by thousands of planes, day and night, for no better reason than to experiment to see if a fire storm would occur as theory predicted. I would put it's planners in the same category as Dr. Mengele, except he was a piker by comparison. His brutal experiments only killed hundreds. The planners of Dresden killed about 100,000 innocents and got away scot free. They KNEW there were tens of thousands of refugees were in the city and that there were only trivial military targets in the city. It was done intentionally. Only the war criminals on the losing side got the end of a rope that they so richly deserved. The winners got medals for their atrocities. An exception was some of the Japanese who were coopted by the victors** and are still in influential positions... Methinks they doth protest to much... * The US carried out a similar project in Japan but had the partial excuse that the industry was widely dispersed as cottage industry, which was not the case in Europe. Zeroes were manufactured almost as home industry and stopping this required razing up to 75% (or more) of every city in Japan. I think they should have had to justify it in an international court. Maybe they could have. I really don't know. And of course, the Luftwaffe attacked London and other cities (including Belfast). A little known fact is that the RAF bombed a German city first. It was a ploy of Churchill to get the erratic Hitler to fly off the handle and do something stupid. Up until that time Goering was focusing the Lufwaffe on reducing the RAF bases and aircraft manufacturing. After the British attack Hitler went berserk and ordered the retaliation against London which put the Luftwaffe into nice predicatable air corridors where the RAF had a chance to decimate them. A gamble that won. It also had the effect of stiffening some upper lips in London. Churchill was as ruthless as they came. He counted on causing the bombing of his own people, but England probably would not have survived without him. However, none of this justified the leveling of German cities after the tide began to turn. ** The US did not prosecute certain individuals involved in the testing of biological warfare in China in which some US airmen are said to have been used as the guinea pigs for Anthrax infections. The experimental data was quietly taken over by the OSS. There was a bit of a flap about this roughly ten years ago, but it seems to have been forgotten again. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:23:00 GMT From: Tommy Gilgan Subject: ephemeris data for NOAA sats Newsgroups: sci.space I am looking for a source for ephemeris data for the NOAA polar orbiting satelittes. Any leads as to the availability, or information on this data would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks for ANY information on this topic, Tom Gilgan gilgan@ug.cs.dal.ca ------------------------------ Date: 2 Oct 92 06:18:37 GMT From: Ron Baalke Subject: Galileo Update - 10/01/92 Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary Forwarded from Neal Ausman, Galileo Mission Director GALILEO MISSION DIRECTOR STATUS REPORT POST-LAUNCH September 25 - October 1, 1992 SPACECRAFT 1. On September 28, a NO-OP command was sent to reset the command loss timer to 264 hours, its planned value for this mission phase. 2. The AC/DC bus imbalance measurements exhibited some change. The AC measurement increased 2DN and reads 16 DN (3.7 volts). The DC measurement has ranged from 128 DN (15.0 volts) to 135 DN (15.8 volts) and now reads 134 DN (15.7 volts). These measurement variations are consistent with the model developed by the AC/DC special anomaly team. 3. The Spacecraft status as of October 1, 1992, is as follows: a) System Power Margin - 68 watts b) Spin Configuration - Dual-Spin c) Spin Rate/Sensor - 3.15rpm/Star Scanner d) Spacecraft Attitude is approximately 4 degrees off-sun (leading) and 24 degrees off-earth (lagging) e) Downlink telemetry rate/antenna-40 bps (coded)/LGA-1 f) General Thermal Control - all temperatures within acceptable range g) RPM Tank Pressures - all within acceptable range h) Orbiter Science- UVS, EUV, DDS, MAG, EPD, and HIC are powered on i) Probe/RRH - powered off, temperatures within acceptable range j) CMD Loss Timer Setting - 264 hours Time To Initiation - 192 hours UPLINK GENERATION/COMMAND REVIEW AND APPROVAL: 1. The EE-9 (Earth-Earth #9) final sequence and command generation package was approved by the Project on September 29, 1992. This sequence covers spacecraft activities from November 23, 1992 to December 5, 1992. TRAJECTORY As of noon Thursday, October 1, 1992, the Galileo Spacecraft trajectory status was as follows: Distance from Earth 43,166,200 miles (.46 AU) Distance from Sun 129,476,400 miles (1.39 AU) Heliocentric Speed 59,800 miles per hour Distance from Jupiter 625,618,900 miles Round Trip Light Time 7 minutes, 50 seconds SPECIAL TOPIC 1. As of October 1, 1992, a total of 8231 real-time commands have been transmitted to Galileo since Launch. Of these, 3282 were pre-planned in the sequence design and 4949 were not. In the past week, 1 real time command was transmitted and pre-planned in the sequence design. In addition, 5677 mini-sequence commands have been transmitted since March 1991; 3519 were pre-planned and 2158 were not. In the past week, no mini-sequence commands were transmitted. Major command activities this week included commands to reset the command loss timer. ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | Einstein's brain is stored /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | in a mason jar in a lab |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | in Wichita, Kansas. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:58:02 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: Laser Space Mirror Newsgroups: sci.space In article ralph.buttigieg@f635.n713.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (Ralph Buttigieg) writes: >2) What would be the best way to convert the infra-red light back to >electricity? There is no terribly good way. If you're willing to go for slightly shorter wavelengths, solar cells are surprisingly efficient for laser reception, because you can tune them for the exact wavelength involved. I've heard numbers circa 50%. This is still pitiful compared to microwave rectennas, mind you. >3) How efficiant would the total system be? Especially compared to current >ground based power transmission? For distances where ground transmission is currently practical, this just wouldn't be competitive. The big problem is one you missed: the *laser* is terribly inefficient. 20% is an impressively efficient laser at present, although I understand that free-electron lasers have the potential to be rather better. >4) Is anyone working on such a scheme? People have looked at doing this sort of thing using microwaves, where the losses are much lower. There has been some study of using lasers to beam power down from powersats. I don't think anyone has looked seriously at lasers for Earth-to-Earth transmission. -- There is nothing wrong with making | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim| henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 03:18:47 GMT From: Ron Baalke Subject: Magellan Update - 10/01/92 Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary Forwarded from the Magellan Project MAGELLAN STATUS REPORT October 1, 1992 1. Magellan continues to operate normally, performing a starcal (star calibration) and desat (desaturation of the reaction wheels) on every orbit. 2. The transmitter continues to peak at 55 degrees C, with a thermal cycle of 1.4 deg. 3. The present mission cycle offers the unique opportunity to observe the periapsis of Magellan's orbit for 243 days, one full rotation of Venus. Since the gravitational effects on the orbit are governed by the "Inverse Square Law," that the force of gravity is proportional the the masses (of Venus and the spacecraft) and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them, the low portion of the orbits is the best for measuring the gravity variations. 4. Magellan came out of the last period of periapsis occultations at the end of Cycle 3. This also provided a unique opportunity for atmospheric scientists because, just as the low part of the orbit became "visible" to the DSN (Deep Space Network) tracking stations, the radio signal was passing through the atmosphere of Venus. Fluctuations in the signal provided a measure of density variations in the atmosphere. 5. These measurements will complement data from the Pioneer- Venus Orbiter, which is dipping into the upper atmosphere of Venus on a "death spiral" which is expected to end in December. 6. Tomorrow, October 2nd, Tommy Thompson will present a "Brown Bag" Seminar on "Radar Studies of the Moon," describing earth-based radar observations of the world's natural satellite. This presentation was postponed from Sept. 25 due to the press conference which followed the Mars Observer launch. ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | Quiet people aren't the /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | only ones who don't say |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | much. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 17:59:58 GMT From: Steve Collins Subject: Mars Observer orbit Newsgroups: sci.space The orbital elements for MO will probably not make much sense to software designed for earth orbiting spacecraft, since MO is moving faster than escape velocity. At this point, MO is best thought of as orbiting the sun. I will ask the nav guys about computing Ra and Dec from earth and post the results. Come to think of it, one of our attitude tools might give the information, because in outer cruise, we point the spacecraft back at the Earth.... I can tell you that to first order, we are departing the earth along the Earth's velocity vector about the sun, since the transfer orbit is close to a Hoama Homman elipse. steve collins MO Spacecraft Team (AACS) ? ------------------------------ Date: 1 Oct 92 21:58:11 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: Mars Observer orbit Newsgroups: sci.space In article collins@well.sf.ca.us (Steve Collins) writes: >The orbital elements for MO will probably not make much sense to >software designed for earth orbiting spacecraft, since MO is moving faster >than escape velocity. At this point, MO is best thought of as orbiting >the sun. I will ask the nav guys about computing Ra and Dec from earth... Some of us actually have software designed for interplanetary trajectories, believe it or not. Please give us heliocentric elements, *not* Ra and Dec. We can compute Ra and Dec ourselves if we know where the thing is. (I suppose we could always ask you for several sets of Ra/Dec data and then do an orbit determination, but it seems kind of silly.) -- There is nothing wrong with making | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim| henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 08:34:04 PDT From: Jim Bowery Subject: Military funding Newsgroups: sci.space >As I stated in my previous post. Until the programs are set up to >orderly divert the money to another R and D effort, it should stay in the >military budget where at least it is going some good. The only other D effort the present military money should go to is one that creates tax incentives for private investment in D. Comparing civilian government D to defense government D demonstrates that civilian government D is DESTRUCTIVE to the advacement of technology. The economic multiplier of such government civilian D investment is NEGATIVE and profoundly so. In essence, every dollar spent on civilian government D, as opposed to commercial D or military government D, is a dollar spent waging war against the incentives for technological leadership. -- INTERNET: jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery) UUCP: ...!ryptyde!netlink!jim NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 15:02:02 GMT From: "Patrick S. Golden" Subject: NASA Langley Open House Newsgroups: sci.space NASA Langley Open House October 17, 1992 -- |-------------------------------| |++Patrick Golden++ | |Virginia Space Grant Consortium| |Hampton, VA 23666 | ------------------------------ Date: 1 Oct 92 08:12:10 GMT From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey Subject: Psalms from outer space? Newsgroups: sci.space Trivia time: A friend has stumped me with the following question: > Which Psalm was it that was read from space by an astronaut? >My mom was wondering (she guessed Psalm 8). The best I can come up with is that some passages from Genesis were read byt the Apollo 8 crew on Christmas in 1968, but I have no record that they read Psalms or any other part of the Bible. Can anybody do better than this? O~~* /_) ' / / /_/ ' , , ' ,_ _ \|/ - ~ -~~~~~~~~~~~/_) / / / / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap! / \ (_) (_) / | \ | | Bill Higgins Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory \ / Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET - - Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV ~ SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS ------------------------------ Date: 1 Oct 92 12:19:29 GMT From: Gary Coffman Subject: Socialist myths about investment Newsgroups: sci.space In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >In article <1992Sep30.075012.13357@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes: >>...the pioneers often go broke and it is those who stand on their shoulders >>who profit. You are like someone belittling Goddard because it was >>Von Braun who capitalized on his work... > >Although I agree with Gary's general point, this is a poor example. The >early practical development of rockets in both Germany and the US did not >owe much to Goddard except a few bits of basic concept and inspiration, >because Goddard published hardly anything about his later work. Von Braun >drew much more on the early experimental work of the VfR -- which he was >personally involved in -- than on Goddard's more advanced but little-known >efforts. I had the impression from reading several histories of rocketry that Goddard and Oberth carried on a lively correspondence through the BIS. Thus I assumed that Von Braun benefited from Goddard's work. I'm not suggesting that the V2 was a lineal descendant of Goddard's little rockets, just that various "tricks of the trade" passed between the two. If that's wrong, I'd like to know. Gary ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 19:01:14 EDT From: Tom <18084TM@msu.edu> Subject: Spinoffs...political, not R&D >The truth is, I am personally not voting on a single issue. Neither am I! I think the whole field is ridiculous, and a complete waste of time! :-) :-) :-) >If you want to argue about ethics and values, I'll refer you to Tommy >:-) Oh, no you don't. Arguing with me about ethics is bad. Takes too much time. Causes zits, and ring around the collar... -Tommy Mac . " + .------------------------ + * + | Tom McWilliams; scrub , . " + | astronomy undergrad, at * +;. . ' There is | Michigan State University ' . " no Gosh! | 18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu ' , * | (517) 355-2178 ; + ' * '----------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:07:08 GMT From: Martin Connors Subject: Toutatis impact in 2000 AD? (was Re: Help !) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Oct1.023604.7173@news.Hawaii.Edu> tholen@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Dave Tholen) writes: > Why wait? We already know it isn't going to hit in 2000. We do know it > will pass 0.011 AU in 2004. ..in regard to the postulated risk of a Toutatis impact. People worried about that impact should bear in mind that the radius of the Earth is 000044 AU so even if Toutatis was coming in randomly within a circle of radius 0.011 AU the geometrical chances of impact would be about ten in a million. Maybe double that for gravitational focussing. Of course Toutatis is NOT coming in randomly, and even for its chaotic orbit we know the position well enough to say that over the next few encounters it will not be hitting and after that its encounters are not so close. So don't lose sleep over Toutatis in this century or next.... Martin Connors Space Research University of Alberta ------------------------------ Date: 1 Oct 92 12:01:18 GMT From: Gary Coffman Subject: Wealth in Space (Was Re: Clinton and Space Funding) Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,talk.politics.space,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton In article tom@ssd.csd.harris.com (Tom Horsley) writes: >See, I have proven it is possible. Now there are just a few little piddling >details to work out :-). Well golly Mr. Wizard, what's the hold up? :-) >+==== Censorship is the only form of Obscenity ======================+ >| (Wait, I forgot government tobacco subsidies...) | >+====================================================================+ You knew I wasn't going to let this pass. Tobacco, the one crop grown by US farmers where the producers receive NOT ONE DIME from the government. Unlike soybeans, peanuts, cotton, sugar, corn, milk, etc, the government does not pay tobacco producers in order to bolster income. Instead, in the only farm program that works, the government issues permits to producers restricting the amount of crop they can market, thus assuring a good price *without* subsidy. Gary ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 274 ------------------------------