Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 18:04:50 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V15 #279 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Sat, 3 Oct 92 Volume 15 : Issue 279 Today's Topics: Alleged Benefits of Military $ (2 msgs) another sad anniversary (2 msgs) anybody got an analysis of the perot space anybody got an analysis of the perot space position? Electronic Journal of the ASA (EJASA) - October 1992 [Part 2] Mass Spectrometers NASA Daily News for 10/02/92 (Forwarded) NASA TMs/TPs:would you like to ftp them? Odyssey system for cellular phone comms (2 msgs) Space and Presidential Politics Toutatis impact in 2000 AD? (was Re: Help !) Wealth in Space (Was Re: Clinton and Space Funding) Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 2 Oct 92 17:41:28 GMT From: Brad Wallet Subject: Alleged Benefits of Military $ Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1469100017@igc.apc.org>, mwgoodman@igc.apc.org (Mark Goodman) writes: |> |> Reply-To: mwgoodman@igc.org |> |> Gary writes: |> |> > Military and aerospace dollars have a particularly |> >high multiplier, 7x, because the jobs pay well and allow the workers |> >more discresionary income that can be spent in the civilian economy. |> >Direct public assistance funds have a much smaller multiplier, around |> >2x, because the recipients don't have large discressionary funds for |> >major capital purchases, they mostly pay rent and buy food. |> |> I wonder where these numbers come from. They seem implausible |> to me, and would in any case be very hard to measure. Everything |> I have read suggests precisely the opposite, that money spent on |> the military and other unproductive high-technology efforts (read |> NASA) is particularly unbeneficial to the economy. You may dispute his numbers, but atleast he offered some data. To simple say "I have read" simply will not do. Offer either data or logical reasoning. In an earlier posting, you said you worked in Congress. No doubt you are pushing sometime of political agenda. I respect that you admit that you are going to be biased. Undoubtable, some will accuse me of being biased because I work for the military. I just want to state that I work for the military because I believe what it does is necessary. Not vice versa. Brad ------------------------------ Date: 2 Oct 92 18:37:59 GMT From: Steinn Sigurdsson Subject: Alleged Benefits of Military $ Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1469100017@igc.apc.org> Mark Goodman writes: > Military and aerospace dollars have a particularly >high multiplier, 7x, because the jobs pay well and allow the workers I wonder where these numbers come from. They seem implausible to me, and would in any case be very hard to measure. Everything I have read suggests precisely the opposite, that money spent on the military and other unproductive high-technology efforts (read NASA) is particularly unbeneficial to the economy. Try Nature _355_ 107, 1992. So what are your sources? | Steinn Sigurdsson |I saw two shooting stars last night | | Lick Observatory |I wished on them but they were only satellites | | steinly@lick.ucsc.edu |Is it wrong to wish on space hardware? | | "standard disclaimer" |I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care - B.B. 1983 | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:27:00 GMT From: wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov Subject: another sad anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Oct2.020630.21787@ee.ubc.ca>, davem@ee.ubc.ca (david michelson) writes... > >In article <1OCT199219492037@judy.uh.edu>, Dennis writes: > >[stuff about path loss and EME] > >> So the answer is that no one was really interested in >> doing that at the time and there were no space advocacy groups with any >> power around at that time to publicize the fact and scream about it on this >> net (which did not exist at that time either). > >> Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville > > >Thanks, Dennis, but that's not what I was asking. > >I wanted the gritty detail (EIRP, frequency, modulation type, and data >rate). Path loss alone does not a link budget make! If anyone has >access to one of the Apollo Science Reports from A14--A17, perhaps they >could take a look for us... > >I suspect that the main problem back in 1977 would have been finding >a way to store the data as it was received. PC's were rather primitive >back then and even small mini's were rather expensive. The other >problems, such as automatically pointing the antennas, providing sufficiently >sensitive receivers, etc., could have been solved with relative ease. > >-- > >Dave Michelson >davem@ee.ubc.ca > Dave the main point was that there were many many stations in that era that had the ability to recieve signals with a total of a -566 db path loss (EME stations) An EIRP of one watt from the moon begins with a 278 db gain over an EME setup. This path loss overcomes by many times any other system design elements such as transmitter power, antenna gain, or data rate. If I remember right the ALSEP transmitter was about 10 watts into a 12-15 db gain antenna. The data rate was under 1000 bits per second. There were many computers available at the time that could have processed the data inexpensively such as the Altair, the Vector Graphic Vector I, and even a TRS 80 mod 1. If that was not powerful enough Heatkit was selling a kit version of the DEC PDP 8 at the time for under $2000 (H8 it was called). The problem was pure and simple lack of interest. I do not recall even one mention of the ALSEP turn off on the news back then. The NSS did not exist, Von Braun had just died and the Shuttle program was three and a half years away from first flight. Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville ------------------------------ Date: 2 Oct 92 19:51:00 GMT From: wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov Subject: another sad anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space In article , henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes... >In article <1992Oct1.140736.1@mdcbbs.com> rivero@mdcbbs.com writes: >> With the latest in high-tech radios and computers now available, couldn't >>your basic University Astronomy Department set up an Earth Station? > >Equipping it with a 30m dish and liquid-helium-cooled maser amplifiers >is still going to be rather expensive. Those improvements in technology >haven't passed DSN by; the data-transmission rate from modern planetary >missions is many times what it was twenty years ago. You really need >performance close to that of DSN to get good data from Magellan in >particular, because it's an extremely data-intensive mission. > >To get high data rates from far away, the basic laws of physics pretty >well dictate that you need (a) a big dish and (b) very-low-noise amplifiers. >Nothing you can do with "the latest in high-tech radios and computers" will >get you around those two requirements, both of which are expensive. > >Your basic U.A.D. perhaps could set up an Earth station good enough to >receive from a 1965 planetary mission. Unfortunately, they aren't >launching those any more. >-- Henry and all there is an answer to this already. AMSAT and many hundreds of hams worldwide have the ability to communicate to asteroid belt distances using the EME stations in place for the 1965 class missions you speak of. There is a new organization the Deep Space Exploration Society, located in Boulder Co that has THREE 26 meter class antennas that were GIVEN to the organization. They are in the process of refurbing the antennas. This is a chance for all of you big mouths out there to put your money where your keystrokes are. They need funds to continue and accelerate the work in progress. They have one of the antennas under control and are working to get computers, Low noise amplifiers and Radios to allow them to do amateur deep space missions. You want to help? Sure you do. I will post the name and address of the contacts for the group and let you folks who with your deep burning desire to help the private space program can vent your frustration with a cash or equipment donation to this non profit very dedicated group. I challenge each and every one of you, especially you Henry, Allan, Nick, Tommy, John, and Co to match our one hundred dollar donation to them. [soapbox time again] This is symptomatic of the maliase of this group, even the advocates. While you all are moaning about how much it will cost and how hard it is to do, these guys are simply going out there and getting the job done!!! [climbs down off of soapbox] While you are at it we need donations for SEDSAT 1. Anyone who wants to help will be acknowledged with your name inscribed on the bottom facet of the satellite. Fifty dollar donation minimum for this perk. Anyone interested send donations to: SEDSAT 1 project team Research Institute Room M65 University of Alabama in Huntsville Huntsville Al 35899 This is a non-profit Educational and Amateur Radio Satellite Heck I never thought about doing this till now. If it is inappropriate to do this on this net please let me know Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:40:56 GMT From: Rich Krum Subject: anybody got an analysis of the perot space Newsgroups: sci.space Suggest that you buy/borrow a copy of the book that Perot wrote: United We Stand How we can take back our country Hyperion, New York No ISBN number I got mine from one of the Ross Perot campaign headquarters for $4.95. Read that before the flames start..... --rich --- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "My opinions are my own, and my employer (Boeing Computer Support Services) denies any responsibility for me, all opinions in general, and anything I may say, do, or be otherwise associated with outside of work for them. -- Use at your own risk, your mileage may vary, no news is good news." REPLY TO: rich@troll1.msfc.nasa.gov PLEASE KEEP IT "G" RATED ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 2 Oct 92 16:07:42 From: Brian Yamauchi Subject: anybody got an analysis of the perot space position? Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Oct2.110929.1@max.u.washington.edu> games@max.u.washington.edu writes: >Now that Perot is back in the race, and looks like he might be a contender, >does anybody out there have any scoop on what might happen to the space >program under him? (anybody actually KNOW what he is planning to do? or >even what he has SAID that he is planning to do?) Well, I skimmed the copy of _United_We_Stand_ recently posted to alt.politics.perot (including a search for "space"), and the only thing I could find was that he plans to kill Freedom. From _United_We_Stand_, Chapter 3: RP> Let me give you two examples of programs that we don't need: RP> First, we are spending money on programs that are nice but not RP> necessary. One example is the space station. I'm a supporter of RP> scientific research. However, this is a huge undertaking for a RP> nation with an operating deficit of over $330 billion. We should RP> defer the space station until we have the money to pay for it. [ plan to eliminate the Rural Electrification Administration... ] RP> There are many other candidates for elimination. Every program RP> must be evaluated objectively. We should save only those programs RP> we need for our future. In my opinion, Perot has a valid complaint against the cost of SSF, but deferring its construction is the worst possible way to deal with this. We don't want to have the space program on hold until 2010 or 2020 waiting for Freedom to be completed. It would be better to either build it, replace it with a cheaper design (i.e. LLNL's inflatable station), or cancel it outright and shift the focus to other avenues of exploration than to postpone or stretch out this program any further. -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Brian Yamauchi Case Western Reserve University yamauchi@alpha.ces.cwru.edu Department of Computer Engineering and Science _______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:26:44 GMT From: Larry Klaes Subject: Electronic Journal of the ASA (EJASA) - October 1992 [Part 2] Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,sci.misc,sci.skeptic critical of the optical approach, will demonstrate for the first time to the laser communications community why ETIs would not use lasers for (SETI) interstellar communications. We also have Professor Frank Tipler, a strong critic of SETI, explaining why both Microwave and Optical SETI is a waste of time since he thinks that we are the first civilization in this galaxy. Noted philosopher, Professor Neil Tennant, will present his ideas as to why there could be major problems in actually decoding the message on an ETI signal. There will be a discussion roundtable at the end of the conference, moderated by Nobel laureate Charles Townes, who earlier will be talking about his Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Optical SETI laser work, and the CO2 OSETI observations presently being conducted by Dr. Albert Betz on Mt. Wilson. This "controversial" conference should be a "fun" event but you don't need to be a laser communications engineer or SETI scientist to attend this conference - just a curiosity about "our" place in the grand scheme of things. You are encouraged to remail this issue of EJASA to anyone you know with interests in SETI. You might like to print out the program below and pin it up on your astronomical society, company, faculty, or school notice board. Here now is the Advance Technical Program: OE/LASE '93 THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE (SETI) IN THE OPTICAL SPECTRUM SPIE Proceedings Vol. 1867 Location: Los Angeles Airport Hilton Hotel, Los Angeles, California, USA. Conference Chairman: Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley, Fiberdyne Optoelectronics. Co-chair: Dr. Monte Ross, Laser Data Technology, Inc. SESSION 1 - INTRODUCTION AND CONVENTIONAL MICROWAVE SETI Session Chairman - Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley, Fiberdyne Optoelectronics. Thursday, January 21, 1993 Afternoon 1:30 to 6:00 pm "Let There be Light" (Keynote Address) Arthur C. Clarke Chancellor - International Space University, Sri Lanka. (30 minutes) Recorded or live video address from his home in Sri Lanka. (1867-01) "The NASA Search for Evidence of Extraterrestrial Technologies" (Keynote Paper) David Brocker (30 minutes) Project Manager, MOP SETI Office NASA Ames Research Center (1867-02) "Strategies for SETI Target Selection" Dr. David W. Latham and Dr. David R. Soderblom (20 minutes) Dr. David W. Latham Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics Dr. David R. Soderblom Associate Astronomer Space Telescope Science Institute (1867-03) "High-Resolution Microwave All-Sky Survey" Dr. Michael J. Klein and Dr. Samuel Gulkis (20 minutes) Dr. Michael J. Klein MOP Program Manager Jet Propulsion Laboratory Dr. Samuel Gulkis Jet Propulsion Laboratory (1867-04) "SETI - A Waste of Time!" (Invited Paper) Professor Frank Tipler (30 minutes) Physics Department Tulane University (1867-05) "Using Modern Analytical Philosophy (MAP) to Sweep the MOP Clean: Non-optical Reflections upon Untapped Data, Bad Arguments and the Nonexistence of Von Neumann Interstellar Probes." Clive Goodall (30 minutes) Department of Philosophy The Ohio State University (1867-06) "The Decoding Problem: Do We Need to Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence to Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence?" Professor Neil W. Tennant (30 minutes) Department of Philosophy The Ohio State University (1867-07) SESSION 2 - OPTICAL SETI I Session Chairman - Dr. Monte Ross, Laser Data Technology, Inc. Friday, January 22, 1993 Morning 8:30 to 11:30 am "Fundamental Factors Affecting the Optimum Frequency Range for SETI" (Invited Paper) Dr. Bernard M. Oliver (30 minutes) Deputy Chief, NASA SETI Office NASA Ames Research Center (1867-08) "The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in the Optical Spectrum and Professional Optical SETI: A Review" Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley (30 minutes) President Fiberdyne Optoelectronics (1867-09) "An Economic Rationale for Extraterrestrials Using Lasers for SETI" Dr. Monte Ross (20 minutes) President Laser Data Technology, Inc. (1867-10) "Infrared SETI" Professor Charles H. Townes (30 minutes) Department of Physics Space Sciences Laboratory University of California, Berkeley (1867-11) "Use of Lasers for Interstellar Beacons, Communications and Travel" Dr. John Rather (20 minutes) NASA Headquarters (1867-12) "Optical SETI from the Southern Hemisphere" Dr. Guillermo A. Lemarchand, Dr. Gregory M. Beskin, Dr. Fernando R. Colomb, and Dr. Mariano Mendez (20 minutes) Dr. Guillermo A. Lemarchand Visiting Fellow Center for Radiophysics and Space Research Cornell University Dr. Gregory M. Beskin Special Astrophysical Observatory Soviet Academy of Science Dr. Fernando Raul Colomb Director Instituto Argentino de Radioastronomia Dr. Mariano Mendez Researcher Observatorio Astronomico de La Plata (1867-13) SESSION 3 - OPTICAL SETI II Session Chairman - Dr. James R. Lesh, Jet Propulsion Laboratory Friday, January 22, 1993 Afternoon 1:00 to 2:00 pm "Application of One Measure of Search Merit to Optical SETI" Dr. D. Kent Cullers (20 minutes) Signal Detection Sub-System Manager SETI Project NASA Ames Research Center (1867-14) "Large M-ary Pulse Position Modulation and Photon Buckets for Effective Interstellar Communications" Dr. Monte Ross (20 minutes) President Laser Data Technology, Inc. (1867-15) "Amateur Optical SETI" Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley (20 minutes) President Fiberdyne Optoelectronics (1867-16) Workshop/Panel Discussion 4.00 - 6.00 pm Moderator - Professor Charles H. Townes, University of California, Berkeley. General Discussion Roundtable Possible inclusion of Arthur C. Clarke in discussion via telephone. To receive a copy of the Advance Technical Program from SPIE which also provides information about registration, accommodation, and costs to attend this conference (see details below), contact Rosa Cays (rosa@mom.spie.org) or Terry Montonye (terry@mom.spie.org) at: SPIE P.O. Box 10 Bellingham WA 98227-0010 Tel: (206) 676-3290 Fax: (206) 647-1445 The manuscript due date is December 21. It will be possible to accept a couple of late papers on Microwave and Optical SETI if bios and abstracts are submitted to the conference chairman for approval before November 15. For more information and to submit abstracts, Stuart Kingsley can be contacted at: Fiberdyne Optoelectronics 545 Northview Drive Columbus Ohio 43209 Tel/Fax: (614) 258-7402 Bulletin Board System (BBS): (614) 258-1710 Internet: skingsle@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu CompuServe: 72376,3545 OE/LASE '93 includes symposia over the period 16-23 January 1993 on the following subjects: Free-Space Laser Communications V (January 20-21, 1993). The Search For Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in the Optical Spectrum (January 21-22, 1993). Laser Engineering (January 17-22, 1993). Optoelectronic Processing and Interconnects (January 17-23, 1993). Biomedical Optics '93 (January 16-22, 1993). There are also educational short courses (January 17-22, 1993) and two technical exhibitions, the Medical Exhibition (January 16-17, 1993), and the Laser and Sensor Exhibition (January 19-21, 1993). Registration Member Working Non- Group Member Full Conference* $355 $380 $415 Author (full conf.) $290 $310 $340 One day $165 $175 $190 Author (one day) $140 $150 $165 Students (no lunch) $ 60 $N/A $ 70 *Rate for a three-day conference. **There is no separate registration rate for the SETI conference. Attendees for the SETI conference will have to pay for two days. If you can spare the time, attendees are recommended to take in the Wednesday morning and afternoon, and Thursday morning sessions of the Free-Space Laser Communication Technologies V conference, as this technology is very relevant to Optical SETI. The cost for the full conference period (three days) is little more than for the two day SETI conference alone. SPIE Proceedings Volume 1867 $ 35 These proceedings will also include a copy of Dr. Lesh's large review paper on NASA's optical communications activities, which is to be presented at the Free-Space Laser Communication Technologies V conference. Accommodation Los Angeles Airport Hilton Hotel (SETI Conference Center) 5711 West Century Boulevard Los Angeles, California 90045, USA Tel: (310) 410-4000 Fax: (310) 410-6250 Rates: Single or double (government) $81 Single or double $89 - $109 Los Angeles Airport Marriott Hotel 5855 West Century Boulevard Los Angeles, California 90045, USA Tel: (310) 641-5700 Fax: (310) 337-5358 Rates: Single or double (government) $80 Single or double $85 - $105 NOTE: Articles on SETI have appeared in recent magazine publications, which include the September issue of LIFE magazine, the October issue of ASTRONOMY, and the November/December issue of SMITHSONIAN AIR & SPACE. See also upcoming issues of TIME and NEWSWEEK. The November issue of SKY & TELESCOPE has a long article by Robert Naeye about Microwave SETI, and mentions the optical approach. This is the first published popular account of OSETI in the printed media. This month, in celebration of the Quincentennial of Columbus' discovery of the Americas and the official start of NASA's Microwave Observing Project (MOP) on Columbus Day (October 12), I am beginning the construction of what is believed to be the world's first Amateur Optical SETI Observatory. This will be based around a Schmidt-Cassegrain telescope of about 10-inch aperture. The telescope will probably be the new Meade LX200, as it is one of the most advanced on the market today for use under computer and CCD control. In the last paper of the conference, I will be reporting on the amateur approach to Optical SETI (AMOSETI) and any work done to date on my observatory system. EJASA will from time to time carry progress reports on this activity and the outcome of the conference. As I indicated in last January's EJASA Optical SETI article, it is my intention that AMOSETI will become a world-wide activity for amateur astronomy groups and societies. In the January 1993 issue of EJASA, there will an addendum to last January's EJASA article, including updated conference program information. I look forward to meeting with you in Los Angeles in January. Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley Related EJASA Articles - "Does Extraterrestrial Life Exist?", by Angie Feazel - November 1989 "Suggestions for an Intragalactic Information Exchange System", by Lars W. Holm - November 1989 "Radio Astronomy: A Historical Perspective", by David J. Babulski - February 1990 "Getting Started in Amateur Radio Astronomy", by Jeffrey M. Lichtman - February 1990 "A Comparison of Optical and Radio Astronomy", by David J. Babulski - June 1990 "The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in the Optical Spectrum, Parts A-E", by Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley - January 1992 "History of the Ohio SETI Program", by Robert S. Dixon - June 1992 "New Ears on the Sky: The NASA SETI Microwave Observing Project", the ARC and JPL SETI Project - July 1992 THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC October 1992 - Vol. 4, No. 3 Copyright (c) 1992 - ASA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 22:13:27 -0500 From: pgf@srl03.cacs.usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering) Subject: Mass Spectrometers I've forgotten who was stupid enough to post this: >Will a mass spectrometer work in the absence of a strong gravitational field? >I guess you could rotate the spectrometer fast enough to make use of the >centripital/centrifical forces. Mass spectrometers use magnetic fields to sort things out. Mass still exists in the absence of gravity, so sorting by mass is still possible. Any more questions? I think this one fits right in with the one about the heavy boots the moonwalkers used to keep from floating off... -- Phil Fraering pgf@srl0x.cacs.usl.edu where the x is a number from 1-5. Phone: 318/365-5418 SnailMail: 2408 Blue Haven Dr., New Iberia, La. 70560 --------------------- Disclaimer: Some reasonably forseeable events may exceed this message's capability to protect from severe injury, death, widespread disaster, astronomically significant volumes of space approaching a state of markedly increaced entropy, or taxes. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Oct 92 22:02:33 GMT From: david michelson Subject: NASA Daily News for 10/02/92 (Forwarded) Newsgroups: sci.space -------------------------------------------------------------------------- % Administrator Goldin awards astronaut John Young Leadership Medal; * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Administrator Daniel Goldin yesterday awarded the NASA Outstanding Leadership Medal to astronaut John Young in a ceremony held at NASA Headquarters. Goldin said "today, we're here to honor one of NASA's finest and an authentic American hero if there ever was one." Young first flew in space on the first Gemini mission in 1962. He later flew around the moon on the Apollo 10 mission and later still, landed on the moon on Apollo 17 in 1972. In 1983 Young and Robert Crippen test flew the Columbia on the first shuttle mission. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Just a correction or two: - the first Gemini mission (Gemini 3) flew in March 1965 not 1962. - John Young commanded the Apollo 16 mission in April 1972 not Apollo 17. - the first shuttle mission (STS-1) flew in April 1981 not 1983. I won't even *mention* his other Gemini or shuttle flights. -- Dave Michelson davem@ee.ubc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:22:29 GMT From: Michael Nelson Subject: NASA TMs/TPs:would you like to ftp them? Newsgroups: sci.research,sci.edu,sci.space,sci.astro,sci.aeronautics,sci.engr My question is if NASA-Langley Technical Memorandums and Technical Papers were available in PostScript form for anonymous ftp, would you find this desirable? I am contemplating making them available and would like to have some feedback to determine if such a service is waranted. Caveat #1 - The files would be available in directories corresponding to the year that they were released. An ascii Index of titles and possibly abstracts could be provided. Thus, searching is limited to perusing the abstract list. Caveat #2 - Some figures in the documents might not be availiable in electronic form. That is, some pictures and such that are part of the final TM/TP do not exist electronically. I have no idea how many papers this affects and to what extent. If you have feelings about this service, one way or another, please contact me. I have set follow-ups to sci.research, but email would be the easiest method. I can post the results of the inquiry and the status of the project if it is desired. thank you for your time, Michael Nelson NASA-Langley Research Center M.L.Nelson@LaRC.NASA.GOV ------------------------------ Date: Friday, 2 Oct 1992 15:34:52 CET From: MKHAN@ESOC.BITNET Subject: Odyssey system for cellular phone comms Newsgroups: sci.space In a recent issue of AW&ST there was an ad by TRW for a cellular phone system using nine satellites in 3 "medium" orbits. This system is called Odyssey. The way the ad was worded gave me the impression that the system is already up and running, although I can't remember hearing about the satellites being deployed. Can anyone provide me with some more information on this? Would Odyssey not nip the chances of the Motorola "Iridium" system in the bud? Michael ------------------------------ Date: 2 Oct 92 20:02:00 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: Odyssey system for cellular phone comms Newsgroups: sci.space In article <92276.153453MKHAN@ESOC.BITNET> writes: >... The way the ad was worded gave me the impression that >the system is already up and running... Nope, definitely not. -- There is nothing wrong with making | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim| henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: 2 Oct 92 18:36:15 GMT From: Steinn Sigurdsson Subject: Space and Presidential Politics Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1469100018@igc.apc.org> Mark Goodman writes: important issue than the space program. I continue to believe that. I find the pipedreams that human space exploration offers an economic bonanza incredible, at least for the foreseeable future. I don't think So, obvious question, how long is "foreseeable"? As you are working "in" [sic] Congress can we assume that it is order two years? | Steinn Sigurdsson |I saw two shooting stars last night | | Lick Observatory |I wished on them but they were only satellites | | steinly@lick.ucsc.edu |Is it wrong to wish on space hardware? | | "standard disclaimer" |I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care - B.B. 1983 | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:58:00 GMT From: Martin Connors Subject: Toutatis impact in 2000 AD? (was Re: Help !) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Oct2.151242.7274@rcvie.co.at> se_taylo@rcvie.co.at (Ian Taylor) writes: > In article <1992Oct1.160708.26767@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> martin@space.ualberta.ca (Martin Connors) writes: > [.../dev/nulled] > >Of course Toutatis > >is NOT coming in randomly, and even for its chaotic orbit we know the > >position well enough to say that over the next few encounters it will not > >be hitting and after that its encounters are not so close. > > As you know Toutatis's position _well enough_, perhaps you or someone else can > answer Bill Higgins previous question about what the error is in its predicted > position at Earth "encounter"? Fair comment. I must admit the only Toutatis orbits I have done FORWARD in time were done with ephem and the results matched up pretty well with those in the Yeomans et al. AJ ('Asteroid and Comet Orbits using RADAR Data' in the January 1992 Astronomical Journal.) Most of my Toutatis orbits are BACKWARDS in time and I look at statistical aspects. Let me go out on a limb and guess that the positions given in say, Hahn ('Close Encounters of Near-Earth Asteroids during 1900-2100', Advances in Space Research, v. 11, p. 29, 1991) would be good to at least .001 AU for this object. My previous posting tried to point out just how large this is or more precisely just how small a target the Earth is. However, I promise, sometime before the encounter, to find out what the position errors are, and run some orbits to see what errors in Earth approach distance are implied by these errors. Martin Connors University of Alberta ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:50:03 GMT From: bill nelson Subject: Wealth in Space (Was Re: Clinton and Space Funding) Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,talk.politics.space,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton tom@ssd.csd.harris.com (Tom Horsley) writes: : gary> Show us a way to *deliver* the materials of the asteroid to the : gary> Earth's surface in *ready to use* form for less than 109 billion : gary> dollars. Those gold and platinum *estimates* aren't in nice pure : gary> lumps. They're spread throughout that couple of trillion tons of : gary> stainless steel ore. Now we're talking $20 a ton material that will : gary> need hundreds of dollars an ounce worth of processing to get at that : gary> platinum and gold. Makes a big difference. Don't pull another : gary> dinosaur killer in the process. : : Shucks, this is the easy part. You're in outer space, you got your vacuum, : you got your limitless solar power, you got your zero-G environment. All : you gotta do a setup a few solar mirrors, vaporize the sucker, and run the : vapor through a free floating mega-industrial scale mass spectrometer (you : can get improved mass spectrometer designs from Saddam Hussein). This gets : the valuable stuff separated out in a pure form, you use the leftover slag : to make ablative heat shields, and just drop precious metal ingots directly : into the parking lots of factories. Will a mass spectrometer work in the absence of a strong gravitational field? I guess you could rotate the spectrometer fast enough to make use of the centripital/centrifical forces. Bill ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 279 ------------------------------