Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 05:01:21 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V15 #309 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Mon, 12 Oct 92 Volume 15 : Issue 309 Today's Topics: ASRM pollution Bootstrap hardware for LunaBase DOT troubles for reloads Laser Space Mirror Lecture Summary: What if SETI Succeeds, myth that we're prepared ( lunar advertising Roswell SPS Toshiba vs. Chaparral UFO EVIDENCE VS. Carl Sagan what use is Freedom? Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 12 Oct 92 07:22:42 GMT From: "Matt J. Martin" Subject: ASRM pollution Newsgroups: sci.space I'm currently doing some research on goverment-sponsored risk communication. Does anyone out there know were I might find some info on the recent debate between NASA and the residents living near the ASRM test facilities. This research is for the purpose of understanding the process of risk communication only, and will not be used to either attack or defend NASA's position on this issue. Thank's just all to pieces. ########################################################################## ## / ## Progress Before Peace! ## / ## ## // ## Matt J. Martin, Technosociology and Space Politics ## // ## ## ///// ######################################################## ///// ## ## // ## Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN ## // ## ## / ## myempire@mentor.cc.purdue.edu ## / ## ########################################################################## ------------------------------ Date: 12 Oct 92 06:18:36 GMT From: Josh 'K' Hopkins Subject: Bootstrap hardware for LunaBase Newsgroups: sci.space szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes: >aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes: >>szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes: >> >>>More than enough money _where_? The SEI budget is in the $10's... >> >>Nick, nobody is talking anything about SEI. The question was raised of how >>much a particular project would cost. The estimate you give was wildly >>in error since you failed to account for the cost effects of a larger market. >That's strange, we just had a huge thread about SEI's FLO, which >you flamed me for daring to criticize. Nick, I've never once seen anybody flamed for "daring to criticize" anything (with the possible exception of the Bible and UFO theories). People flame you because they think your criticisms are incorrect. This thread is not about FLO or SEI. If it were, it would be _in_ the thread on FLO. Instead, it was rather clearly begun anew, with no reference to SEI or goverment funding at all that I recall. >There isn't any paying market from the point of view of business, either, >whether the project costs $100 billion or $1,000 billion. Business just >does not invest in schemes that require multiple layers of new technologies >assumed to be orders of magnitude cheaper than what previous projects >have accomplished. Which quite clearly states our qualms about your figures. _If_ a lunar base is built, it will be done at "reasonable" costs or not at all. There are enough new technologies on the horizon to assume that this is not impossible. >Finally, the major volume-expanding market already exists, comsats. >But your culture, the NSS lobbyist and NASA contractors, have chosen >to snub comsats, and really commerce and general, as some sort of >hanger-on. Hmmm. Does the comsat industry need NSS people chanting "build comsats" at political conventions? Do they need NASA asking for money? Somehow I think not. >-- >Nick Szabo szabo@techboook.com >Hold Your Nose: vote Republocrat //////// Breathe Free: vote Libertarian -- Josh Hopkins jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu The views expresed above do not necessarily reflect those of ISDS, UIUC, NSS, IBM FSC, NCSA, NMSU, AIAA or the American Association for the Advancement of Acronymphomaniacs ------------------------------ Date: 9 Oct 92 04:25:02 GMT From: Paul Campbell Subject: DOT troubles for reloads Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets,sci.space As most people on this group know the DOT has been in a tizzy about reloadable model rocket and high power rocket reloads and the shipping of them across country - this has caused all sorts of problems for the manufacturers and those of us who use them. Anyway I've just heard that they've discovered someone else who ships AP/rubber reloads across country to haras .... NASA - after all that's how they make the SRBs .... it's really the same technology - except we don't have as many O-rings .... Paul -- Paul Campbell UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul AppleLink: CAMPBELL.P So far the Republican's economic policy is best described as "C'est la vie Capitalism" ------------------------------ Date: 12 Oct 92 04:39:32 GMT From: Andrew Haveland-Robinson Subject: Laser Space Mirror Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Oct10.151428.8423@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.UUCP writes: > >In article <718606909snx@osea.demon.co.uk> andy@osea.demon.co.uk (Andrew> Haveland-Robinson) writes: >>In article amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk writes: >>>The secret to opening the space frontier is to be found in plastic >>>mounted bits of old satellites; pet moon rocks; committing ashes to >>>the deep; asteroid desk sets (Ceres, Vesta, Pallas... Collect em! >>>Trade em with your friends!); garbage disposal... and so forth. >> >>How err... very um.. well... American! :-) >> >>Why not laser raster scan the clouds with MacDonalds adverts? >cringe< > >I've heard of a proposal to "paint" the Coke logo on the Moon. Using a >highly reflective "dust", say titanium dioxide smoke particles, sputtered >onto the surface by an electron beam from a lunar orbiting satellite. >The layer could be molecules thick since there's no wind or weather >to wash it off. The Moon's surface is actually very dark and the highly >reflective material should be visible even in daylight on Earth. It >shouldn't cost more than a couple year's worth of Coke's normal advertising >budget. > >Gary Argghh!! Conceptually brilliant - the ultimate graffito! Still, it's better than "Neil woz ere" :-) On second thoughts, dunno though... A story comes to mind when the local council painted "|\/\ SCOOL /\/|" on the road outside a school, instead of "|\/\ SCHOOL /\/|" (as is normal in England)... :-) Andy. +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Haveland-Robinson Associates | Email: andy@osea.demon.co.uk | | Pine Cottage, Osea Island, Essex | ahaveland@cix.compulink.co.uk | | CM9 8UH England. 0621-88756 | Also: 081-800 1708 081-802 4502 | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 11 Oct 92 23:52:31 GMT From: stuart goldman Subject: Lecture Summary: What if SETI Succeeds, myth that we're prepared ( Newsgroups: sci.space Mr. White implies that we should claim 'Personal Space' as a right. What about normal flight? Doesn't this come under our rights as well? If this is so then shouldn't something like the FAA be created for Space Travel? But if we were to have what you propose in normal flight, then what about all of the risks that are entailed with that? Look at people when they drive an automobile. Look at the amount of recklessness and stupidity that occurs on a daily basis there. Between drunk driving, speeding (not that I have never speeded) and deaths on the road on a daily basis, and that's in two dimensions. What would happen if everyone had access to an airplane? Then they're succeptable to collision in three dimensions... then deal with space travel: you have people who would get space sick and not realize it, you would have the 'rich guy on the block' throwing parties on his brand new Buick Spacelark Deluxe and 'orbiting' drunk, landing drunk, etc. Don't you think there is a better way to take advantage of space other than attempting to go about it in this manner? Stuart Goldman sag101@psuvm.psu.edu goldman@crayola.cs.psu.edu goldman@cs.psu.edu " What's a human? It's a delicious, nutricious snack that tastes just like chicken!!" -- Fern Gulley ------------------------------ Date: 12 Oct 92 05:17:15 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: lunar advertising Newsgroups: sci.space In article <718874018snx@osea.demon.co.uk> andy@osea.demon.co.uk (Andrew Haveland-Robinson) writes: >>I've heard of a proposal to "paint" the Coke logo on the Moon. Using a >>highly reflective "dust", say titanium dioxide smoke particles, sputtered >>onto the surface by an electron beam from a lunar orbiting satellite. >>The layer could be molecules thick... > >Argghh!! Conceptually brilliant - the ultimate graffito! Old idea, actually. Heinlein's "The Man Who Sold The Moon" included a similar concept nearly half a century ago. And did it with a bit more sophistication, too: the Coke logo wouldn't be legible to the naked eye, it's too complex... but "7UP" would be... so how much would Coke pay to buy up the advertising concession in perpetuity to ensure it is never used...? -- MS-DOS is the OS/360 of the 1980s. | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology -Hal W. Hardenbergh (1985)| henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: 11 Oct 92 19:13:01 GMT From: Michael Corbin Subject: Roswell Newsgroups: sci.space The recent exchange about Roswell was interesting. Below is a reprint of an article which appeared in a "science" magazine about the crash recovery investigation being conducted by a retired Air Force Intelligence officer. Although there is *no* hard evidence that the vehicle recovered was an extraterrestrial spacecraft, the testimony collected by Randle and Schmitt does provide some compelling circumstance that it was very foreign. This is only the tip of the iceberg on information that R&S have collected. If you want more, let me know. This article was taken from Air&Space magazine October/November 1992. Reprinted without permission. Prepared by Michael Keithly. In a response to a letter of authenticity of the Roswell events Kevin Randle replied. The events that took place near Roswell, New Mexico in July 1947 are well documented. The question is no longer if something happened, but what happened, and why it is still being hidden 45 years later. Colonel (later Brigadier General) Thomas J. Dubose was the chief of staff of the Eighth Air Force, the parent unit of the 509th Bomb Group, at Roswell in July 1947. He has repeatedly, on audio and video tape, that the balloon explanation was designed to "get the reporters of Ramey's back" (Brigadier Roger Ramey, Commanding Officer of the Eighth Air Force). In other words, one of the officers who was there has said that the balloon explanation was nothing more than a cover story. There is also Brigadier General Arthur Exon, who was later the base commander at Wright-Patterson but who was a lieutenant colonel at Wright Field in 1947. On audio tape, he has said that many of the people at Wright field believe the debris recovered near Roswell was extraterrestrial. He also described his own flight over the crash site, telling us he saw the gouge created when the craft crashed, as well as the tire marks of the military vehicles that had driven over the field. Here are two sources who seem to confirm much of the Roswell tale. Both talk of aspects of the case about which they can provide first hand testimony. There is much more about this that must be explored. I believe the debris was extraterrestrial, but in any event, it is clear that something more than a balloon was recovered near Roswell. Kevin D. Randle Co-Author UFO Crash at Roswell. Cedar Rapids, Iowa. END OF ARTICLE -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG ------------------------------ Date: 12 Oct 92 01:02:19 GMT From: John Roberts Subject: SPS Newsgroups: sci.space -From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman) -Subject: Re: SPS -Date: 10 Oct 92 15:02:17 GMT -Organization: Gannett Technologies Group -In article <9210070441.AA10031@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov> roberts@CMR.NCSL.NIST.GOV (John Roberts) writes: -> ->- But how do you convert the laser light back into electricity? ->- Photovoltics? Does not sound very efficiant to me. -> ->I was referring to the following device (repost): ->... ->Essentially, the infrared radiation is treated as *very* short wavelength ->microwaves. Perhaps the beam needs to be polarized for best results. ->The article didn't mention applicability for power reception - that such a ->detector might be useful for this is speculation on my part. -While such a detector could approach 90% collection efficiency, the problem -is in the power handling capacity of the tiny antennas and with the junction -capacitance of the rectifying diodes. A structure micrometers in size -can't carry much current. More importantly, we don't know how to fabricate -diodes with a small enough junction capacitance to be efficient rectifiers -at infrared frequencies. So, because of current carrying limits, the -beam intensity can't be high, probably not as high as normal sunlight, -and because of rectifier junction capacitance, the diodes won't be very -efficient, probably less than 1%. Great sensors, lousy power converters. Could you please make an estimate of the desired characteristics of such a device? I come across reports of some pretty spectacular electronic components from time to time, so it would be useful to know what to look for. I believe the fastest diode I ever read about could switch at about 10^14 Hz, which sounds like it would be in the right ballpark for far infrared rectification, but I don't recall any of its other properties. John Roberts roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov ------------------------------ Date: 12 Oct 92 03:16:22 GMT From: Eric Nixdorf Subject: Toshiba vs. Chaparral Newsgroups: rec.video.satellite,sci.space akmal@hades.wpd.sgi.com (Akmal Khan) writes: : All the flashy LEDs notwithstanding, can anyone contrast the Toshiba : TRX-80/TRX-100 IRDs with the Chaparral Monterey 70 : and the Chaparral CR110 receivers? Am I making a huge mistake even considering : buying one of these? : Akmal, I looked at Monterey, GI, and Toshiba among manufacturers when deciding which new IRD to buy. GI was generally the cheapest, followed by Toshiba, with Monterey being by far the most expensive. In terms of features, Monterey (the 90 model) has surround sound and picture-in-picture built in. For funtionality and ease of use, Toshiba was the easiest, followed by Monterey and GI. The Monterey has the *absolute worst* remote control among the three, it's terribly confusing (the people I know who don't dislike it fall in the "something that expensive *ought* to be hard to use category), the Toshiba the easiest remote control. The clear difference was picture and sound. Toshiba absolutely blew the other two out of the water (using the same setup for all three receivers). The TRX-80, the TRX-1800, and the TRX-2200 all use the same video and audio circuitry, differences among the three are number of outputs, number of satellites able to store in memory, number of outputs, etc. The TRX-80 is a great system, I passed it up at $1050 to go for the TRX-2200 because I wanted the extra video/audio outputs and the VCR timer to move the satellite auto- matically for taping. While the picture-in-picture and surround souncd are nice features, can't argure with the killer picture and audio. Also, for the difference in price between the Toshiba TRX-2200 and the Monterey-90, my TV has picture-in-picture already, I can purchase a better separate surround sound processor that the Monterey-90 has, and *still* have at least $500 in my pocket. Eric ------------------------------ Date: 12 Oct 92 05:25:57 GMT From: Scott Fisher Subject: UFO EVIDENCE VS. Carl Sagan Newsgroups: sci.space rbw3q@rayleigh.mech.Virginia.EDU (Brad Whitehurst) writes: >In article <1992Oct6.170715.1564@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes: >> >> >> UFO EVIDENCE VS. Carl Sagan >> >> I watched all of Dr. Carl Sagan's updated "Cosmos" >> programs on PBS during summer 1991. In one of them, he STILL >> maintains that there is no physical evidence for UFO >> Spacecraft, "just stories". Updated "Cosmos"? What where? Can anyont tell me more about this? I have seen the "original" several times. In what way's is this updated one different? Regards Scott. _______________________________________________________________________________ Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au] PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272). _--_|\ N Department of Psychology / \ W + E University of Western Australia. Perth --> *_.--._/ S Nedlands, 6009. PERTH, W.A. v Joy is a Jaguar XJ-6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic wife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 05:16:52 GMT From: "Aaron Wigley [Wigs]" Subject: what use is Freedom? Newsgroups: sci.space Frank Crary (fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU) wrote: : In article <1992Oct7.031717.19507@den.mmc.com> whitmeye@den.mmc.com (Richard Whitmeyer) writes: : >1. How come the interior appointments create the same impact on the senses : > as my new Kenmore fridge? I mean, were's the softness? Any wood grain? : : NASA and their contractors have no style? No, seriously, that kind of : detail can be good or bad: The guy who has to live there might _hate_ : wood furnature (or whatever other nice detail was added). The idea is : to make something the astronaut could live with, without knowing anything : about the astronaut's tastes or preferences. That means bland is the : solution... Well, thats what posters are for, just get some Scotch tape, and voila - instant wall decoration. :-) On a slightly more serious note, I'm curious as to how much personal gear will be able to be carried up and kept by long duration crews? What about the Shuttle at the moment - can crew members take personal belongings up? : Frank Crary : CU Boulder The Wigs of Oz, Aaron Wigley ins894r@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 309 ------------------------------