Date: Sat, 24 Oct 92 05:05:17 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V15 #337 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Sat, 24 Oct 92 Volume 15 : Issue 337 Today's Topics: "Bringing Life to the Stars" synopsis of a new book Ariane v.54 / Galaxy VII Dan Quayle on Mars (3 msgs) DCX Status? (2 msgs) Federal Spending (was: Space for white people only?) Ground facilities for DC-* (was Re: DCX Status?) (3 msgs) NASA Presents Low Trophy to IBM and Honeywell Perot & Freedom (2 msgs) Perot and Freedom Recognizing a Dyson sphere if you saw one Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Oct 92 18:11:43 PDT From: Jim Bowery Subject: "Bringing Life to the Stars" synopsis of a new book Newsgroups: sci.environment,sci.space,comp.ai.philosophy,sci.psychology,sci.physics,sci A new book is going to press titled "Bringing Life to the Stars" by cognitive scientitst, David Duemler. It is initially being sold to the academic community for various curricula, but popular sales efforts might be undertaken if sufficient interest exists. Initial academic orders can be sent to: Helen Hudson University Press of America 4720 Boston Way Lanham, MD 20706 Bulk rate (22% discount from retail) Paperback $13.65 Clothbound $33.15 I believe individual copies can be ordered at retail. A synopsis for "Bringing Life to the Stars" by David Duemler: One of the worst tragedies of the 20th century occured in Nazi Germany when millions of people were put to death in concentration camps. It is also tragic when a young child is run over by a truck. But if we are to state which of these two outcomes is worse, it is clear that the death of one child, as horrible as it may be, pales into insignificance when compared to the suffering and death of millions. Similarly, one would prefer the most joyous experiences of one's entire life to an experience which is merely pleansant. Simply put, amount matters. This simple insight has enormous consequences when we consider the possibility of bringing life to the stars, thereby increasing the amount of life countless times. "Bringing Life to the Stars" is an attempt to address the question, "Should we bring life to the rest of the solar system, or, if possible, to the rest of the galaxy?" Chapter 1: An Ethical Foundation The first chapter, which provides an ethical foundation for the rest of the book, begins by discussing three factors which may limit attempts to think about ethics; 1) amount matters, but there is a tendency for many people to overlook amounts, 2) our immediate intuition is faulty, especially when we are faced with questions for which our background has not prepared us well, 3) we are likely to be biased toward ourselves, our species, and our planet. Moving on to an examination of ethics itself, three criteria are provided which may help us to judge proposed ethical foundations: 1) In suggesting that X exists and/or has value are we taking huge inferential leaps beyond the available data? 2) Is it biologically plausible to suggest that X exists and/or has a biological function? 3) If X exists is it of inherent value? Any proposed foundation which does not pass all three criteria is not given further consideration. Proposed foundations for an ethical system include; pleasure and pain, life itself, natural rights, integrity, diversity, the soul, and intelligence. Each of these proposals is examined. Rights- based ethical systems fail all three criteria. The proposal of a soul fails criterion 1 as huge inferential leaps are required for such a system. All other proposed foundations, with the exception of pleasure and pain, fail to look at the underlying conditions which ultimately determine value and thus fail criterion 3. Pleasure and pain, broadly defined to include all types of suffering and fulillment, is a foundation which succeeds on all three criteria and thus serves as the basis for the rest of the book. A hedonistic, aggregate, act-utilitarian system is proposed and defended against common criticisms. This system is then used to derive the following two axioms (which are further explained and qualified in the book): 1) Life which exists in a fulfilling environment tends to be of positive value. 2) In such an environment two lives are on average of twice the value of one life. It is noted that if life were to spread throughout either the solar system or the galaxy the amount of life could increase countless times, and suggested that if these new worlds are fulfilling the amount of value would increase countless times. This would make all other problems and possibilities in our world, except in that they may affect the probability of achieving this vision, trivial in comparison. Chapter 2: Creating New Worlds The basic conditions for the creation of space habitats are examined; material resources, energy resources, meteoroids and cosmic rays, the possibility of isolation and/or confinement, the creation of ecosystems, and conditions for non-human animals. A conclusion is reached that worlds in free space, if they could be fulfilling, would be preferable to worlds on the surfaces of moons or planets, as moons and planets are relatively inefficient (e.g., there are thousands of miles of material beneath your feet not being directly used, whereas in a space habitat there need only be a couple meters). Independent estimates that our solar system could hold billions of times as much life as Earth are presented. In addition to the presence of abundant material resources in space it is shown that the Sun as a source of energy can be used much more readily when it is not blocked out by Earth's atmosphere or shadow (i.e., night). A second conclusion is that a tremendous diversity of life would be possible in these worlds. There could be countless such worlds in a variety of shapes and sizes and containing a variety of ecosystems. Each world would contain a few tens or hundreds of square miles of land area. Travel to nearby worlds would be accomplished in minutes or hours with no concern about potholes or a necessity toplow through an atmosphere and with virtually no use of energy whatever. Drawing upon work in environmental psychology, human environmental preferences are examined with an emphasis on application to design of worlds in space. Examples of possible worlds are briefly described. The limits of present and some conceivable near term launch vehicles and "intelligent" machines are briefly examined. Finally it is noted that as machine intelligence advances in worlds without immediate material concerns a "point of freedom" would be approached. At such a point machines would perform whatever work our descendants do not wish to and thereby would make available material goods without requiring serious human effort. As such a point is approached life would change considerably and the direction of such change can best be predicted when one takes into account the limits of consciousness and the limits of society (i.e., the following two chapters). Chapter 3: Limits of Consciousness The extent to which new worlds would be fulfilling may be limited by the human capacity for rationality. Information about cognition in non-human animals is presented to provide a foundation for understanding human cognition. Moving to humans, it is suggested that we could closely approach ideal decisions if we had unlimited access to information, if we were in concious control of our decisions, and if we had a special capacity for logic. It is argued however that we fall short of these ideals in a number of ways: 1) Consciousness is multifaceted, with different parts of the brain being involved in different aspects of conscious awareness. There is no single center in the brain which is in control of our behavior. 2) Consciousness plays a circumscribed role in cognition. Conscious attention is used primarily early in the learning process, before things become automatized, and in general when we are facing unusual situations. Much of our decision making relies on unconsicous processes. 3) We have not evolved a special capacity for logic. An a priori argument involving natural selection is presented and examples of human difficulties with reasoning are presented. 4) We have not evolved a special capacity for ethical thought. It is argued that in the future in space we can reduce the damage caused by these limitations: 1) To some extent knowledge is cumulative and thre are reasons to suspect that the extent of human knowledge will increase tremendously in the coming centuries. 2) We are capable of learning about our limitations, and will be more so in the future given the cumulative nature of knowledge. With such understanding we are capable of behaving in ways that account for these limitations. Moreover, as we approach the "point of freedom," motivations underlying many rationalizations or "motivated errors," may be reduced or eliminated. 3) As life moves beyond the possibility of nuclear destruction and continues to become more advanced almost any errors which are made eventually be corrected. This will not apply as clearly to minor day to day errors, but reducing the number and cost of major errors can make a huge difference in how fulfilling the worlds are. Chapter 4: The Limits of Society "Immdiate return societies" are basically a subgroup of hunters and gatherers including the !Kung, the Mbuti, the Hadza and others who live (lived) without anything approaching formal legal or economic systems. Thus some aspects of their lifestyle may be similar to what we would expect in space habitats once the point of freedom is approached. These societies share a number of characteristics including a profound egalitarianism, relatively free access to resources and freedom to move, a short work week, secure identity, a stress on cooperation rather than competition, and physical closeness. A brief look at the history of Western Civilization indicates that modern industrial societies provide a stark contrast with respect to each of these characteristics. We wold thus expect tremendous change on the societal scale as humans move beyond Earth. Modern industrial societies also have advantages due to relatively advanced technology. our descendants in space would have even more advanced technology and thus a greater variety of options. It is argued that when life in space approaches the point of freedom it will indeed share the noted characteristics of immediate return societies, with the possible exceptions of secure identity and physical closeness. Though our descendants would be able to choose secure identity and physical closeness, may choose otherwise due to a greater availability of options. The social worlds which develop in space would in some respects differ from anything found in our history on Earth due to the relatively advanced state of knowledge and capacity for rationality. Other issues relevant to present and future social systems including aggression and reconciliation, altruism and reciporcity, and behavioral genetics, are discussed. Chapter 5: A Cosmic Perspective It is shown that a cosmic perspective, a concern about the universe as a whole, has been found among those with environmental concerns since nineteenth century, including Emerson, Thoreau, and Muir. It is suggested that it would be inconsistent to be concerned about the maintenance of some ecosystems and not about the creation of others. The following common questions and criticisms are addressed: 1) "How could artificial worlds in free space compare with Yosemite?," 2) "Maybe it would be nice for some people but I wouldn't like it.," 3) "Aren't people who dream of bringing life to the stars simply being irresponsible?," 4) "Why should someone believe that another 'technological fix' will solve our problems?," 5) "Why should people give up on Earth? Shouldn't we solve the problems of Earth first?," 6) "Why don't we at least wait until it can be done more efficiently? Or until the push can be better directed?" It is suggested that some of these comments and criticisms are of great value in that they may help to better direct our efforts. However, some are self-centered, assuming that our present day problems, our planet, and near term considerations in general are what is of most importance. Chapter 6: The Limits of the Possible When we move to the longest term considerations we are concerning ourselves with the limits of the possible. A brief look is taken at: possible worlds, possible life forms, the possibility of traveling to other stars, the possibility of alien civilizations within the Milky Way, the possibility that the universe will end, and finally the possibility that the universe is a cyclical phenomenon. -- INTERNET: jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery) UUCP: ...!ryptyde!netlink!jim NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 92 01:23:07 GMT From: Dean Adams Subject: Ariane v.54 / Galaxy VII Newsgroups: rec.video.satellite,sci.space ARIANESPACE FLIGHT 54 *rescheduled* The 54th Ariane launch will place the Hughes Communications HS-601 GALAXY VII satellite into a geostationary transfer orbit adapted for the PVA (Perigee Velocity Augmentation) procedure, using an Ariane 42P launch vehicle equipped with 2 solid strap-on boosters (PAP). This will be the 3rd flight of an Ariane 4 in the 42P configuration. It will be launched from the Ariane launch complex ELA 2, in Kourou -- French Guiana. Due to a payload-related problem, the original launch date was postponed. The v.54 launch is now scheduled for October 27th, at 7:17 pm (EST). Satellite coverage begins at launch minus 30 minutes. Galaxy VI is about the most likely location for the feed... -{ DA }- ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 1992 20:13:55 GMT From: Jeffrey Alan Foust Subject: Dan Quayle on Mars Newsgroups: sci.space In article pwg25888@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Patrick W. Grady) writes: > I don't know of that one, but in the December iissue of Issac simov's >Science Fiction Magazine, there is an article on Dan going to Mars tat >is worth reading. > The story is titled "Danny Goes to Mars", by Pamela Sargent. It's in the October 1992 issue of IASFM. I highly recommend it - the story is absolutely hilarious. Sargent does make one now-dubious assumption in the story, though: Bush and Quayle being reelected in 1992. :) -- Jeff Foust Senior, Geophysics/Planetary Science, Caltech jafoust@cco.caltech.edu jeff@scn1.jpl.nasa.gov Tom Seaver: "Hey, Yogi, what time is it?" Yogi Berra: "You mean now?" ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 92 16:45:07 GMT From: "Adam R. Brody " Subject: Dan Quayle on Mars Newsgroups: sci.space lake@maple.gvsu.edu (Craig Lake) writes: > Does anyone know the famous Dan Quayle life on Mars quote from a >couple of years ago, or at least where I could look this up? > Thanks > Craig Lake Something to the effect of "Since there are canals on Mars, there was water. If there is water, there is oxygen, and if there is oxygen, we can breathe!" ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 92 17:20:21 GMT From: "Patrick W. Grady" Subject: Dan Quayle on Mars Newsgroups: sci.space lake@maple.gvsu.edu (Craig Lake) writes: > Does anyone know the famous Dan Quayle life on Mars quote from a >couple of years ago, or at least where I could look this up? > Thanks > Craig Lake I don't know of that one, but in the December iissue of Issac simov's Science Fiction Magazine, there is an article on Dan going to Mars tat is worth reading. Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1992 00:36:53 GMT From: "Simon E. Booth" Subject: DCX Status? Newsgroups: sci.space The DCX (Delta Clipper, right??) wouldn't neet government launch facilities, so what would the launch pads and servicing facilities for the DCX be like?? And would it be limited to overwater launching as are done with existing facilities?? I would assume that ith verticle landing an RTLS could be done without the long trajectory away from the launch site, as is the emergency plan for shuttle flights. I would also think that the a DCX flight path could safety be over land since there aren't any boosters or fuel tanks being jetisoned. Sprry this posting is a bit choppy but I've got a line noise problem. With the simplification of launch facilities, perhaps the "spaceports" of sci-fi stories might become a reality. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1992 01:56:41 GMT From: Mary Shafer Subject: DCX Status? Newsgroups: sci.space On Fri, 23 Oct 1992 00:36:53 GMT, sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) said: S> The DCX (Delta Clipper, right??) wouldn't neet government launch facilities, S> so what would the launch pads and servicing facilities for the DCX be like?? DC-X, which is _not_ Delta Clipper, will be launched and recovered at White Sands, which is as government as you can get. DC-X was originally conceived as a demonstrator for the DC-Y, which would have been the Delta Clipper. DC-X is an unmanned sub-scale model. DC-Y is unlikely to ever happen, having been cancelled, but DC-X is cheap enough and far enough along that they're going ahead with it. S> And would it be limited to overwater launching as are done with existing S> facilities?? Not at White Sands--there's no water there to launch over. S> I would assume that ith verticle landing an RTLS could be S> done without the long trajectory away from the launch site, as is S> the emergency plan for shuttle flights. DC-X isn't going to do a RTLS. DC-X will just be blown up by Range Safety if something goes wrong. S> I would also think that the S> a DCX flight path could safety be over land since there aren't any boosters S> or fuel tanks being jetisoned. See above. S> With the simplification of launch facilities, perhaps S> the "spaceports" of sci-fi stories might become a reality. DC-X isn't going to go into space. 30,000 ft isn't space or everyone who has ever ridden on a 747 would be wearing astronaut wings. -- Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov Of course I don't speak for NASA "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor "A kill is a kill." Anonymous ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1992 22:32:14 GMT From: "Carlos G. Niederstrasser" Subject: Federal Spending (was: Space for white people only?) Newsgroups: sci.space In article "UTADNX::UTDSSA::GREER"@utspan.span.nasa.gov writes: > Relating spending to entertainment is especially > pertinent, since the anti-science-spending argument is usually based on > the notion that such spending is frivolous and expendable. It is much > more difficult for someone to continue this line once they realize how > much they spend on true frivolity. > If I recall correctly, (from statistics of the department of commerce) the average household spends more on cigarettes than they do on _all_ government sponsored science. Very similar comparisons can be made for peanut butter, pastries, and other consumer items. If there is enough interest I could post a list which I developed last year. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- | Carlos G. Niederstrasser | It is difficult to say what | | Princeton Planetary Society | is impossible; for the dream of | | | yesterday, is the hope of today | | | and the reality of tomorrow | | carlosn@phoenix.princeton.edu |---------------------------------| | space@phoenix.princeton.edu | Ad Astra per Ardua Nostra | --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- | Carlos G. Niederstrasser | It is difficult to say what | | Princeton Planetary Society | is impossible; for the dream of | | | yesterday, is the hope of today | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1992 02:27:03 GMT From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey Subject: Ground facilities for DC-* (was Re: DCX Status?) Newsgroups: sci.space In article , henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: > One thing that didn't end up being mentioned in my > technical-aspects paper is that SSTO would *not* need to use government > launch ranges, after initial testing. It needs no particularly elaborate > ground facilities. Proximity to fancy clean rooms, etc. for preparing payloads? (I know, when the Revolution Comes, launch costs will be so low that we can afford to slap together payloads in some undergraduate lab in the University of Toronto's Zoology Building, and launch 'em from the parking lot.) Bill Higgins | Sign in window of Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory | Alice's bookstore: Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET | "EVER READ BANNED BOOKS? Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV | YOU SHOULD!" SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS | Gee, I hope it doesn't become | *compulsory*. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1992 01:43:53 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: Ground facilities for DC-* (was Re: DCX Status?) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Oct22.202703.1@fnalo.fnal.gov> higgins@fnalo.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes: >> One thing that didn't end up being mentioned in my >> technical-aspects paper is that SSTO would *not* need to use government >> launch ranges, after initial testing. It needs no particularly elaborate >> ground facilities. >Proximity to fancy clean rooms, etc. for preparing payloads? Actually, maybe not even that. Delta Clipper payloads come in a standard pallet with standard interfaces. It might be possible to prepare the payload in your favorite clean roon, put it in a sealed pallet, and ship to the launch site. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "A great man is one who does nothing but leaves | | aws@iti.org | nothing undone" | +----------------------185 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 23 Oct 92 03:07:55 GMT From: Greg Moore Subject: Ground facilities for DC-* (was Re: DCX Status?) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Oct23.014353.29027@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes: > >Actually, maybe not even that. Delta Clipper payloads come in a standard ^- how about WILL Allen, I know you are a strong proponent about this project, but at least be honest. Delta Clupper payloads don't come on ANY pallets at this point. In the future, they MAY, but until then it's still a future tense. >pallet with standard interfaces. It might be possible to prepare the >payload in your favorite clean roon, put it in a sealed pallet, and >ship to the launch site. > > Allen >-- >+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| Allen W. Sherzer | "A great man is one who does nothing but leaves | >| aws@iti.org | nothing undone" | >+----------------------185 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1992 02:12:33 GMT From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey Subject: NASA Presents Low Trophy to IBM and Honeywell Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Oct21.213110.14733@news.arc.nasa.gov>, baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) writes: > > NASA PRESENTS LOW TROPHY TO IBM AND HONEYWELL > > IBM Federal Systems Co., Houston, and Honeywell, Inc., Space and > Strategic Systems Operation, Clearwater, Fla., have been named recipients of > the 1992 George M. Low Trophy - NASA's Quality and Excellence Award. Ah, it's that time of year again, the presentation of the Low Quality Award. Recently I visited a Western Electric lab and was dismayed to find that, according to a display in the lobby, they have a quality award named for somebody named Bonnie Small. It's only a matter of time before somebody names a quality award after Arizona's talented astronomical artist, Kim Poor. O~~* /_) ' / / /_/ ' , , ' ,_ _ \|/ - ~ -~~~~~~~~~~~/_) / / / / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap! / \ (_) (_) / | \ | | Bill Higgins Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory \ / Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET - - Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV ~ SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 92 15:02:19 GMT From: Gerald Cecil Subject: Perot & Freedom Newsgroups: sci.space Someone asked recently about federal outlays, probably not in this thread. These figures are from the Financial Management Service, Treasury Dept., General Accounting Office: 1992 US Budget Receipts & Outlays Total receipts 1,073.6 (billions) Total expenses 1,407.1 Deficit 333.5 Interest on 294.5 deficit DOD 298.2 Social Security 281.1 Health & Human 263.1 services Education 29.1 Food stamps 22.4 This leaves 218.8 billion to divide among other activities. Currently NASA gets about 14 billion (6%). As Ross points out the deficit interest fluctuates according to market rates. Much has been financed short-term because the rates are low. --- Gerald Cecil cecil@wrath.physics.unc.edu 919-962-7169 Physics & Astronomy, U of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3255 USA ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 92 17:11:02 GMT From: Gerald Cecil Subject: Perot & Freedom Newsgroups: sci.space CORRECTION: >Someone asked recently about federal outlays, probably not in >this thread. These figures are from the Financial Management Service, >Treasury Dept., General Accounting Office: > >1992 US Budget Receipts & Outlays >Total receipts 1,073.6 (billions) >Total expenses 1,407.1 >Deficit 333.5 >Interest on 294.5 > ***debt*** <<<<<<<<< >DOD 298.2 >Social Security 281.1 >Health & Human 263.1 > services >Education 29.1 >Food stamps 22.4 > >This leaves 218.8 billion to divide among other activities. >Currently NASA gets about 14 billion (6%). As Ross points out >the deficit interest fluctuates according to market rates. >Much has been financed short-term because the rates are low. --- Gerald Cecil cecil@wrath.physics.unc.edu 919-962-7169 Physics & Astronomy, U of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3255 USA ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 92 17:45:24 GMT From: Gerald Cecil Subject: Perot and Freedom Newsgroups: sci.space TYPO CORRECTION: >Someone asked recently about federal outlays, probably not in >this thread. These figures are from the Financial Management Service, >Treasury Dept., General Accounting Office: > >1992 US Budget Receipts & Outlays >Total receipts 1,073.6 (billions) >Total expenses 1,407.1 >Deficit 333.5 >Interest on 294.5 > *** DEBT *** <<<<<<< !! >DOD 298.2 >Social Security 281.1 >Health & Human 263.1 > services >Education 29.1 >Food stamps 22.4 > >This leaves 218.8 billion to divide among other activities. >Currently NASA gets about 14 billion (6%). As Ross points out >the debt interest fluctuates according to market rates. >Much has been financed short-term because the rates are presently low. -- Gerald Cecil cecil@wrath.physics.unc.edu 919-962-7169 Physics & Astronomy, U of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3255 USA ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 92 19:19:34 GMT From: Paul Campbell Subject: Recognizing a Dyson sphere if you saw one Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space In article <1992Oct19.035845.15552@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Frederick.A.Ringwald@dartmouth.edu (Frederick A. Ringwald) writes: >So, how can one recognize a Dyson sphere, among astronomical objects? Good question, certainly you wouldn't be able to SEE it from outside as you could on the STNG episode that started this thread, it probably wouldn't have the curvature the one shown did either (think of the Enterprise next to a vertical flat wall .....) Paul -- Paul Campbell UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul AppleLink: CAMPBELL.P "Since I've been Gov. of Texas the Berlin Wall has fallen ..." Anne Richards ------------------------------ Newsgroups: sci.space Path: crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!apple!mumbo.apple.com!gallant.apple.com!laws-ken.apple.com!batman From: Ken Laws Subject: Re: Dan Quayle on Mars Sender: news@gallant.apple.com Message-Id: <1992Oct22.211337.13051@gallant.apple.com> X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11 Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1992 21:13:37 GMT X-Xxdate: Thu, 22 Oct 92 22:10:03 GMT X-Xxmessage-Id: References: <1992Oct21.163157.689@mcs.gvsu.edu> Organization: Timeline Lines: 20 Source-Info: Sender is really news@CRABAPPLE.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU Source-Info: Sender is really isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU In article <1992Oct21.163157.689@mcs.gvsu.edu> Craig Lake, lake@maple.gvsu.edu writes: > Does anyone know the famous Dan Quayle life on Mars quote from a >couple of years ago, or at least where I could look this up? > Thanks > Craig Lake Mars is essentially in the same orbit... Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe. -- Vice President Dan Quayle, 8/11/89 (reported in Esquire, 8/92) Presented by the Quayle for Political Footnote Committee. -Ken Laws ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 337 ------------------------------