Date: Sun, 29 Nov 92 05:09:59 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V15 #471 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Sun, 29 Nov 92 Volume 15 : Issue 471 Today's Topics: COSMOLOGY Need Info On Hubble!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shuttle replacement (4 msgs) Space Calendar - 11/28/92 What comes after DC-1 Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Nov 92 03:04:23 GMT From: amelie' 'agathon Subject: COSMOLOGY Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.physics,sci.space,sci.math LOOKING FOR 1 -student in computer science(graph theory,trees,automates..) 2 -students in fundamental physics 2 -students in fundamental math interested in the evolution of the Univers. (individual answer will give on decmber 15 or on january) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1992 22:28:00 From: Robert Dyess Subject: Need Info On Hubble!!!!!!!!!!!!! Newsgroups: sci.space On 11/28/92 jwogan@unix1.tcd.ie (John Wogan) writes: JW>I'd like general information about it e.g. date of launch JW>etc. My best information is that it went up on the Discovery (STS-31) on April 18, 1990. JW>How good are the images we get back? I have four files on my system that may be of help: HSTHIST.ZIP 26K History of Hubble Telescope HSTPROB.ZIP 7K Hubble Telescope Problems HUB-TEL.ZIP 11K Hubble Facts PAYLOAD2.ZIP 42K NASA Launch Schedule through 1996 The Facts File contains basic specs. There is no info here regarding image resolution for digital pictures. There are numbers on mirror sizes and aiming capability though. If you wish to have any of these files, feel free to call AmeriComm. This is a FidoNet BBS System in Dallas. FidoNode number 1:124/6507. Phone number 1-214-373-7314. If you have a FidoNet BBS closer to you, I would be happy to pipe what you need over to it. Robert robert.dyess@f6507.n124.z1.fidonet.org * Origin: *AmeriComm* in Dallas,TX 214/373-7314 - The info source. (1:124/6507) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 04:49:27 GMT From: "James Borynec; AGT Researcher" Subject: Shuttle replacement Newsgroups: sci.space henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >Is the concept of "fault tolerance" so foreign? As Allen has pointed >out, the DCs can lose 90% of their engine thrust and still land normally. >As I have pointed out, at landing there is not a lot of fuel on board >to burn. This brings up an interesting point. What happens if you run out of fuel? I would guess that it would happen occasionaly. It happens with Airlines (can you say Gimli). There is no redundancy when there is no fuel. Also, no big explosion. j.b. ------------------------------ Date: 29 Nov 92 06:01:23 GMT From: Brian Stuart Thorn Subject: Shuttle replacement Newsgroups: sci.space > that's not what you said in a previous posting Well, I was referring todeep-space probes with four to six-week launch windows, not commercial satellites. I acknowledge the obvious in that Shuttle did not turn out to be a good launch system for deep spac missions. However, I believe that Shuttle's performance as an Earth satellite launch system was at least as good as any of the expendables (again, we aren't talking cost here.) Shuttle had trouble in 1984, but this was the fault of McDonnell-Douglas' PAM (Payload Assist Module) solid rocket, which would also have effected the Delta program, if it had been in service at the time. (Straining to remember: I think Delta *was* in service and *was* effected.) In reference to your point that we could have put the satellites on expendables and *made* money, I agree! Well, mostly agreee. GD, Mc-D, and Martin have yet to make a profit with their expendables. Anyway, my point is that we didn't have these boosters available. Titan was down following two catastrophic failures. Atlas was defunct (production line shut down, only a few vehicles remaining in the inventory) and Delta was winding down. The U.S. poured a heap of money back into those systems after Challenger (any amount to get flying again). This was a mistake. The Shuttle could have returned to service at least a year earlier than STS-26, if politics had no intervened (and all that NASA bashing in the press). The Shuttle started flying again in 1988 *anyway*, so, Allen, we didn't save any money by pulling commercial payloads off the Shuttle! My point is that if these missions (the non-military missions, at least) had each carried three comsats, at least NASA would have made *some* money (some being better than none, agree?) In the meantime, the money and effort we poured into Titan IV and Atlas II (keep Delta for the time being) could have been put into your DC-series, the NLS boosters, or the Aerospace Plane. End result: for the same money we spent on Shuttle and expendables in 1986-92, we would have had the backlog reduced much sooner, the money spent to launch satellites would have remained in the U.S., instead of Europe and China, and we would now be closing in on an operational replacement for Space Shuttle. Not bad, eh? Instead, we have U.S. industry trying to tweak a few more pounds of capacity out of Atlas and Titan (both presently sitting useless on the launch pad, by the way) while Delta has been unable to win customers away from Ariane or Long March (with rare exceptions). The only good thing that came out of the Challenger disaster was the Pegasus booster system... at last: innovation. (Next spring when it flies, you can add DC to the list) -Brian ------------------------------ Date: 29 Nov 92 06:03:26 GMT From: Brian Stuart Thorn Subject: Shuttle replacement Newsgroups: sci.space Fine, okay already. It was a big mistake, a costly mistake, a disastrous error for U.S. space policy. Okay. Just don't make silly claims like "the companies that went with Shuttle went out of business." It ain't so. -Brian ------------------------------ Date: 29 Nov 92 06:13:38 GMT From: Brian Stuart Thorn Subject: Shuttle replacement Newsgroups: sci.space Fine, okay already. It was expensive, a waste of money, a foolish endeavour. Whatever you say! But please *stop* making FALSE CLAIMS like that! First it was 'companies that went with shuttle went out of business'. FALSE! Next it was 'the mission which recovered the two satellites' did nothing else'. THAT'S FALSE, TOO! Instead of admitting this, you divert the discussion to one of cost. That's not the point! If you want to talk money and foolish decisions, fine. YOU WIN. Just bring the false claims to a halt, if you don't mind. (okay, I got that off my chest) It may have been an expensive jaunt, but we did learn alot about handling large objects in orbit on that mission. That was 1984, when Space Station operations were about five years away, they thought. The experience gained on the WESTAR/PALAPA recovery mission was considered worth the cost of doing it at a subsidized rate for industry. Commerce got two good satellites back, and NASA learned alot about rendezvous, capture, EVA and repair in orbit. We can debate whether this experience was worth the price of the Shuttle mission minus revenue from two other satellite launches and the subsized fee paid by industry. I think it was worth it. -Brian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992 11:22:17 GMT From: Ron Baalke Subject: Space Calendar - 11/28/92 Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,sci.space.shuttle,alt.sci.planetary Here's the latest Space Calendar. If you see any updates to the calendar, then please let me know. Note that launch dates are subject to change. The following person made contributions to this month's calendar: o Jeff Bloch - ALEXIS and Pegasus December launch dates ========================= SPACE CALENDAR November 28, 1992 ========================= * indicates change from last month's calendar December 1992 *?? - SCD Pegasus Launch (Brazil) *01 - Superbird A Ariane Launch *02 - STS-53, Discovery, Department of Defense (DOD) *03 - NASA Town Meeting - California State University, Dominguez Hills *04 - Future of Planetary Exploration Lecture, Caltech 08 - Galileo, Earth Flyby 08 - Asteroid 4179 Toutatis, Near Earth Flyby (.024 AU) 10 - Lunar Eclipse *10 - Optus B-2 Long March 3 Launch 11 - NASA Town Meeting - Tampa, FL - University of South Florida *12-13 - Geminid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 262.0 degrees) *12 - Asteroid 4179 Toutatis at its brightest, 9.4 magnitude 14 - 30th Anniversary, Mariner 2 Venus Flyby (1st Flyby of Another Planet) 15 - NASA Town Meeting - Seattle, WA - University of Washington 19 - 20 years since man has been to the Moon (Apollo 17) 22 - Ursid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 10:00 UT, Solar Longitude 258.7 deg.) *23 - Partial Solar Eclipse, East Asia to Alaska 25 - Isaac Newton's 350th birthday (or January 4) *28 - Galileo, Dual Drive Actuator Hammer Test (DDA-5) January 1993 ?? - Eutelsat II F-5 Ariane Launch ?? - NASA Town Meeting - Denver, Colorado *?? - Galaxy 4 Ariane Launch 03-4 Quadrantid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 10:00 UT, Solar Lon 283.13 deg.) 07 - 25th Anniversary, Surveyor 7 Launch (Moon Soft Lander) *10 - Geotail, 4th Lunar Flyby *25 - STS-54, Endeavour, TDRS-F February 1993 *?? - ALEXIS Pegasus Launch 01 - 35th Anniversary, Explorer 1 Launch (1st U.S. Satellite) 06 - Astro-D Launch (USA/Japan) *08 - Mars Observer, 2nd Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM-2) 18 - Jules Verne's 165th Birthday 19 - Copernicus' 520th Birthday *25 - STS-55, Columbia, Spacelab Germany (SL-D2) March 1993 ?? - Radcal Scout Launch ?? - Hispasat 1B & Insat 2B Ariane Launch ?? - Galileo, 10 RPM Spinup Test ?? - DFH-3 Long March 2E Launch (China) 01 - Ulysses, 3rd Opposition *18 - Mars Observer, 3rd Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM-3) *23 - STS-56, Discovery, Atmospheric Lab for Applications and Science (ATLAS-2) *31 - Commercial Experiment Trasporter (Comet) Launch April 1993 ?? - Astra 1C Ariane Launch 06 - 20th Anniversary, Pioneer 11 Launch (Jupiter & Saturn Flyby Mission) 22 - Lyrid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 02:00 UT, Solar Longitude 32.1 degrees) 23 - Pi-Puppid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 33.3 degrees) *29 - STS-57, Endeavour, European Retrievable Carrier (EURECA-1R) May 1993 ?? - Advanced Photovoltaic Electronics Experiment (APEX) Pegasus Launch 04 - Galileo Enters Asteroid Belt Again 15 - Magellan, End of Mission? June 1993 *?? - Temisat Meteor 2 Launch 04 - Lunar Eclipse 14 - Sakigake, 2nd Earth Flyby (Japan) 22 - 15th Anniversary of Charon Discovery (Pluto's Moon) by Christy July 1993 *09 - STS-51, Discovery, Advanced Communications Technology Satellite(ACTS) 29 - NASA's 35th Birthday August 1993 ?? - Seastar Pegasus Launch ?? - ISTP Wind Delta-2 Launch ?? - ETS-VI Launch ?? - GEOS-J Launch ?? - Landsat 6 Launch 08 - 15th Anniversary, Pioneer Venus Orbitor 2 Launch 12 - Perseid Meteor Shower (Max: 04:00 UT, S.L. 139.6 deg and 15:00 UT, S.L. 140.1 deg.) 09 - Mars Observer, 4th Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM-4) 24 - Mars Observer, Mars Orbit Insertion (MOI) *26 - STS-58, Columbia, Spacelab Life Sciences (SLS-2) 28 - Galileo, Asteroid Ida Flyby September 1993 ?? - SPOT-3 Ariane Launch *?? - Tubsat Launch October 1993 ?? - Intelsat 7 F1 Ariane Launch 21 - Orionid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 208.4 degrees) November 1993 *?? - Consort 6 Starfire Launch *?? - Solidaridad Ariane Launch *03 - 20th Anniversary, Mariner 10 Launch (Mercury & Venus Flyby Mission) *04 - Galileo Exits Asteroid Belt *16 - STS-60, Discovery, SPACEHAB-2 *29 - Lunar Eclipse ##### ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | Learn to recognize the /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | inconsequential, then |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | ignore it. ------------------------------ Date: 29 Nov 92 06:20:49 GMT From: Brian Stuart Thorn Subject: What comes after DC-1 Newsgroups: sci.space I can't point to a source at the moment, but I have seen references to the Shuttle being a stage and a half system, since all the engines fire at liftoff, and two (the SRBs) are jettisoned during flight. The SRBs are more like strap-ons (i.e., Delta or Titan) than another stage (Stage 0?) Henry's is the first reference I've seen to the Shuttle being a two-stage vehicle. -Brian ------------------------------ From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Newsgroups: sci.space Subject: Re: Shuttle replacement Message-Id: <1992Nov29.032503.1230@iti.org> Date: 29 Nov 92 03:25:03 GMT Article-I.D.: iti.1992Nov29.032503.1230 References: <1992Nov27.165853.13468@iti.org> <70415@cup.portal.com> Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow Lines: 18 Sender: news@CRABAPPLE.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU Source-Info: Sender is really isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU In article <70415@cup.portal.com> BrianT@cup.portal.com (Brian Stuart Thorn) writes: > The mission in question launched two communications satellites for > paying customers first, Allen, and only then did it retrieve the > two derelict HS376s. In that case, we spent $250 million to recover $150M worth of hardware. Again: would you do that with your money? (If the answer is yes, please call me as I have things to sell you). Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "A great man is one who does nothing but leaves | | aws@iti.org | nothing undone" | +----------------------147 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+ ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 471 ------------------------------