Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 05:08:27 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #045 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Thu, 14 Jan 93 Volume 16 : Issue 045 Today's Topics: Block Adaptive Quantization deep space cruisers fiber optic cable Freedom's orbit Galileo Stuck Ribs / Remote Manipulator? (3 msgs) Helium How much? How much? (was Re: Moon Dust Sold) ISU More Goldin rumors and how you can help More on helping Goldin stay at NASA needed: a real live space helmet (3 msgs) Oxygen in Biosphere 2 polar meteorites Saving an overweight SSTO.... water recycling Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 13 Jan 93 19:21:50 GMT From: Gopinath Kuduvalli Subject: Block Adaptive Quantization Newsgroups: comp.compression,sci.space At JPL, a compression algorithm called Block Adaptive Quantization (BAQ) was implemented for compression of synthetic aperture radar raw data for the Magellan mission now in space. (Re: R. Kwok and W.T. Johnson, IEEE Trans. Geosc. Remote Sensing, July 1989.) Since then, an improved version is developed for SIR-C (Shuttle Imaging Radar). Does anybody have information on this new improved version of the algorithm? If the original workers are reading this, can I get in touch with you? Thank you. Cheers, -- Gopi Dr. Gopi Kuduvalli |e-mail: gopinath@mda.ca MacDonald Dettwiler & Associates |Phone: (604) 278 3411 (Office) 13800 Commerce Pkwy | (604) 241 1689 (Home) Richmond, BC V7C 1G4, CANADA |Fax: (604) 278 2117 ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jan 93 22:14:35 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: deep space cruisers Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1iv5n5INNdo1@mirror.digex.com> prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes: >So henry. if we were interested in deep space cruisers, what sort of >time scale, R&D Budget and technical problems stand in the way? > >Are we looking at some sort of Manhattan project? or something as big for >20 years? or is it more like SDI on a permanent basis.a > >You mentioned about something the size of hanford, but for how long.? Permanently; that would be the fuel production works to support a large antimatter-fuelled space program within the solar system. Presumably production would eventually move out into space, and from there it would be built up into something that could support starflight. Barring the possibility of new physics, the first step toward interstellar exploration is building a prosperous interplanetary civilization. The energy requirements for starflight are huge; we're going to have to scale up our capabilities considerably before we can seriously attempt it. As far as reaching that... there are lots of routes, depending on how big a hurry you are in. The most crucial problem is not technical at all. None of this will ever happen so long as almost everyone is convinced that doing *anything* in space is inherently prohibitively expensive. This isn't true, but the world's current space programs are so locked in a vicious circle of massive expenditures, and have done such a thorough job of convincing people that it's the only possible way, that a radical departure is going to be needed. The only practical way to break out of this mess is by demonstration of cheap and easy access to orbit. Paper studies aren't enough; flight demonstrations are needed. (The single worst thing the shuttle has done to us is to destroy the credibility of launcher cost estimates, even for vastly superior systems.) The SSTO project just might do it, if we can get it funded fully. -- "God willing... we shall return." | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology -Gene Cernan, the Moon, Dec 1972 | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 22:47:42 EST From: John Roberts Subject: fiber optic cable -From: sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu (Doug Mohney) -Subject: Re: fiber optic cable -Date: 11 Jan 93 16:43:53 GMT -Organization: Computer Aided Design Lab, U. of Maryland College Park -In article , roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov (John Roberts) writes: ->Does anybody (the phone companies or the military, for instance) use ->fiber optic cable that's stiff enough to reduce the risk of breaking? -There are at least two missiles (Army/FOG-M, and a Navy project) which use -some sort -of spooling mechanism to pay out "cable" (well, probably not more than a -strand). The Army system is (forgive me pureists) basically a longer range TOW -anti-tank missile, designed to be launched off a trailer dragged behind a -Hummer, and will go against either tanks or helos. The Navy missile is more -interesting because they pay out cable between a fast moving attack plane and -the missile at up to hmm, at least 20 kilometers; Army system is some number -not more than 10K. -However, both Army and Navy don't have to worry about rewinding the cable after -the packages are delivered :-) If this is like the earlier wire-guided systems, the axis of the spool is parallel to the path of the missile, and is non-rotating - the cable just slips off the end of the spool. That would introduce one twist in the cable per unit of length equal to the circumference of the spool, but it seems to work. It's impressive that this kind of system can be made to function at all! :-) John Roberts roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jan 93 21:37:30 GMT From: Sean C Fifield Subject: Freedom's orbit Newsgroups: sci.space I'm interested in orbital information (altitude, eccentricity, inclination, etc.) about the space station Freedom. Has NASA released information about the orbit they are planning to put Freedom into? If so where can I get a hold of it or who can I contact? Could someone E-mail me or post an article if they know? Thanks. Sean Fifield University of Michigan ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jan 93 13:02:39 EST From: "John F. Woods" Subject: Galileo Stuck Ribs / Remote Manipulator? Newsgroups: sci.space mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes: >In <1993Jan13.064524.13581@mr.med.ge.com> hinz@picard.med.ge.com (David Hinz (hinz@picard.med.ge.com)) writes: >>A co-worker of mine brought up an interesting question about the >>service problems such as we are seeing with Galileo. How feasable >>would it be to incorporate a robotic arm manipulator into these designs, >>articulated so that it could reach everything on the probe/satellite? >If we can't get an antenna to deploy properly, what do you think the >odds are that such an arm would work? Ah, well, you just modify the antenna design so that in the event that the arm fails, you can use the antenna to repair the arm....... :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 21:03:25 EST From: John Roberts Subject: Galileo Stuck Ribs / Remote Manipulator? -From: Bob_Hearn@qm.claris.com (Robert Hearn) -Subject: Re: Galileo Stuck Ribs / Remote Manipulator? -Date: 13 Jan 93 21:14:29 GMT -Organization: Spartacus Software -In article <1993Jan13.064524.13581@mr.med.ge.com>, hinz@picard.med.ge.com -(David Hinz (hinz@picard.med.ge.com)) wrote: -> A co-worker of mine brought up an interesting question about the -> service problems such as we are seeing with Galileo. How feasable -> would it be to incorporate a robotic arm manipulator into these designs, -> articulated so that it could reach everything on the probe/satellite? Some of the replies to this appeared to miss a point. If the only function of the robot is to help deploy the antenna if it gets stuck, then it doesn't have to be as reliable as the antenna to increase the overall probability of getting the antenna open. However, I agree that it's probably not worthwhile, for the other reasons given. -Or maybe a little repair robot that can wander around to wherever it's -needed. -Give it magnetic feet or something to grip onto everywhere. -Make it small and cheap; send two or three along. You need three - call them Huey, Dewey, and Louie. Expect one to blow off when you pass through Saturn's rings. (From the movie "Silent Running".) :-) John Roberts roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jan 93 19:31:29 GMT From: rabjab Subject: Galileo Stuck Ribs / Remote Manipulator? Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Jan13.154014.14983@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes: >>A co-worker of mine brought up an interesting question about the >>service problems such as we are seeing with Galileo. How feasable >>would it be to incorporate a robotic arm manipulator into these designs, >>articulated so that it could reach everything on the probe/satellite? >If we can't get an antenna to deploy properly, what do you think the >odds are that such an arm would work? >I would say that it's simply not practical. I seem to remember that a Surveyor lunar lander used a remote manipulator to push a balky experiment box to the ground when its lowering wire jammed. Don't know if this function was anticipated. -rabjab ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 22:30:31 EST From: John Roberts Subject: Helium -From: pgf@srl03.cacs.usl.edu ("Phil G. Fraering") -Subject: Re: Anti atom stability, etc... -Date: 13 Jan 93 03:35:09 GMT -\Having a limited education in cryogenics is hampering my understanding -/of this phenomenon. I understood that helium cannot exist in liquid -\state at 6 Atm. -In general gas laws work the other way: increace the pressure, and the -"boiling" point of the liquid will increace. In general that's true, but don't take any bets on helium - it's extremely weird stuff. Helium can't exist as a *solid* at atmospheric pressure - its melting point is -272.2 C at 26 atmospheres pressure. The part about liquid at 6 Atm doesn't sound right. (Heard recently - helium 3 does form a superfluid, but at a substantially lower temperature than helium 4. I'm pretty sure I got that right.) John Roberts roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 21:53:34 EST From: John Roberts Subject: How much? -From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) -Subject: Re: How much? (was Re: Moon Dust Sold) -Date: 13 Jan 93 21:22:58 GMT -In article <1993Jan13.134812.1@fnala.fnal.gov>, higgins@fnala.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes... ->I looked at earlier postings, but couldn't find how many grams of Moon ->dust are in the sample. Anybody know? -The weight was never specified, and it would be hard to determine since the -Moon dust is on 2 inch piece of tape. I have a photo of it, and just by -eyeballing it I'd say there is less than a gram there. I'd guess a lot less than a gram. Does "2 inch" mean the length or the width? This sample has historical interest as well as intrinsic valuation for being lunar material. John Roberts roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jan 93 07:48:12 GMT From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey Subject: How much? (was Re: Moon Dust Sold) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <12JAN199318023933@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov>, baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) writes: > The Moon dust that was up for auction yesterday was sold for $42,500. When > you include the 10% extra that goes to the auction house, that brings the > total price up to $46,750. I looked at earlier postings, but couldn't find how many grams of Moon dust are in the sample. Anybody know? An upper limit on dollars-per-gram would be a nice figure to feed our periodic flame wars. "We call for an immediate ban Bill Higgins on all antimatter-related Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory research, especially as this Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET is fundamental to many third- SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS generation nuclear weapon Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV systems." --A. Gsponer & J. Hurni, *Nature* v.325 p.754 (26 Feb 1987) ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jan 1993 10:33 PDT From: "Horowitz, Irwin Kenneth" Subject: ISU Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Jan12.013919.3524@ee.ubc.ca>, davem@ee.ubc.ca (Dave Michelson) writes... >Where can I find out more about the International Space University? >A site that I could FTP some files from would be great. What about >application forms? :) > >I've heard that the 1993 session will be held at the University of Alabama >at Huntsville but not much else... yet. Thanks in advance. > >-- >Dave Michelson >davem@ee.ubc.ca > Dave, What follows below is from a draft version of the ISUnet FAQ, as provided to me by Steve Abrams, the system manager for ISU. Hope it helps. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 11:45:14 EST From: steve@isu.isunet.edu (Steve Abrams) Subject: Re: Returned mail: Host unknown Good guess, Irwin! Any staff person of ISU can now be reached via e-mail to lastname@isu.isunet.edu. executive no longer exists. Sorry for the hassle. Here is an excerpt from our ISUnet FAQ for your reference: 7. HOW DO I SEND E-MAIL TO THE ISU EXECUTIVE OFFICE? Every ISU staff person has e-mail access. The single, standard format for their address is: lastname@isu.isunet.edu, where lastname = the person's last name. Currently valid addresses are: Steve Abrams abrams@isu.isunet.edu ISUnet (both for steve@isu.isunet.edu Summer Sessions and Permanent Campus) Jim Brice brice@isu.isunet.edu Summer Session academics and operations planning Goldie Eckl eckl@isu.isunet.edu Vice President, Executive Affairs Patrick French french@isu.isunet.edu Permanent Campus Planning Gene Fujii fujii@isu.isunet.edu Intern Ryan Harris harris@isu.isunet.edu Intern George Haskell haskell@isu.isunet.edu Vice President, Academics Kim Hudson hudson@isu.isunet.edu Receptionist, Shipping & Receiving, Merchandising Matt Lynch lynch@isu.isunet.edu Publications Sterling North north@isu.isunet.edu Founder's Association, fund- raising, public relations, promotion Young-Min Shim shim@isu.isunet.edu Vice President, Program and Finances Beatrice Traub traub@isu.isunet.edu logistics (travel, housing) Pascale Traub ptraub@isu.isunet.edu Intern George van Reeth vanreeth@isu.isunet.edu President John Wallman wallman@isu.isunet.edu Summer Sessions, Affiliate Campuses, & Research GROUP ADDRESSES --------------- We have set up several aliases for specific programmatic areas of ISU operations. Since people's responsibilities do change, we do this to make it easier to contact the right people, even if you don't know who they are. These groups are listed below: postmaster@isu.isunet.edu This address is the default address for resolution of all e-mail problems. Bounced messages are forwarded here and requests for e-mail assistance should be addressed here. info@isu.isunet.edu This is *THE* address to send all changes to your contact information (mailing address, phone, fax, telex, e-mail, etc.) This is the information that ISU uses daily to send info to you, call you, etc. and it is the information that is provided to the Whois Info Server described above. applications@isu.isunet.edu This address is to be used for anything relating to student applications including, but not limited to: requesting them, returning them to ISU via e-mail, questions about them, and inquiries about status. This is also the appropriate address to use to send requests for applications to be sent somewhere. admissions@isu.isunet.edu This is specifically for requesting information about the status of an applicant's admissions process. alumni@isu.isunet.edu This can be used to ask/answer any/all alumni-related questions. universe@isu.isunet.edu This address should be used to submit articles, news, or information the ISU's quarterly Universe publication. Also, questions about items appearing in the Universe can be addressed here. isunet@isu.isunet.edu These aliases will soon (by the isulib@isu.isunet.edu end of October 1992) be evolved into a separate discussion- oriented digest to be distributed to all people interested and involved in the development and implementation of the ISUnet. Currently, this also includes the development of the ISU Space Library. isu93@isu.isunet.edu This can be used to ask/answer any/all questions pertaining to the ISU 1993 Summer Session. Each year, there will be an updated address for each upcoming summer session. founders@isu.isunet.edu This address goes to the ISU Founder's Association and should be used to ask questions about ISU's fundraising and public relations questions, as well as provide information about potential sources of funding, support, or publicity for ISU. admin@isu.isunet.edu This address should be used for issues relating to the administration of ISU in areas not covered by other aliases. bod@isu.isunet.edu This address should be used for issues relating to the ISU Board of Directors. boa@isu.isunet.edu This address should be used for issues relating to the ISU Board of Advisors. publications@isu.isunet.edu This address should be used for issues relating to ISU publications. academic@isu.isunet.edu This address should be used for questions and answers about academically-related issues faced by ISU. mss@isu.isunet.edu This address should be used for questions and answers about the planned Master of Space Studies degree. pcs@isu.isunet.edu This address should be used for questions and answers about the planned ISU Permanent Campus System (including Central and Affiliate Campuses, summer sessions in general, and research activities) and the status of any existent RFPs or proposals, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Irwin Horowitz | Astronomy Department |"Whoever heard of a female astronomer?" California Institute of Technology |--Charlene Sinclair, "Dinosaurs" irwin@iago.caltech.edu | ih@deimos.caltech.edu | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 19:01:03 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: More Goldin rumors and how you can help Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space A reliable source told me that Sally Ride was offered and turned down the job of NASA administrator. This means the current plan IS to replace Goldin. The other front-runner is Rep. Nelson of Florida who would be worse than Truly. If you want to help, send a letter to Clinton asking that Goldin retain his job. Letters should go to: Govonor Bill Clinton PO Box 615 Little Rock, AR 72203 I'm working on getting a good phone number to call but please write AND call. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "A great man is one who does nothing but leaves | | aws@iti.org | nothing undone" | +----------------------101 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jan 93 20:20:15 GMT From: games@max.u.washington.edu Subject: More on helping Goldin stay at NASA Newsgroups: sci.space For those of you that are E-Mail junkies, and who refuse to write U.S. mail, and who want to do convey something about Goldin to the gov. I suggest that you e-mail to 75300.3115@compuserve.com This was a campain channel for the Clinton group, but there is still a guy who picks up the mail, and prints it, and passes it on to the people who process the u.s.mail for Clinton. It is not 100%, but it is better than doing nothing. John Stevens-Schlick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 19:27:19 GMT From: Dillon Pyron Subject: needed: a real live space helmet Newsgroups: sci.space In article , rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu (rabjab) writes: >When I want to feel like I'm in space lately I've been wearing a >large goldfish bowl over my head, but it bumps around too much >when I drive. Where can I buy a decent helmet or get one real cheap? >It must have earphones with little antennas coming out of them, >like the ones in Lost in Space. >Somebody told me there was a contest I could enter with cereal box >tops to win a spacesuit! But I can't find the cereal. No, it was a soap bar. You had to make up a slogan about the product, and if they drew your name, you won! RAH :-) About the space cadet academy. Get into the USAFA, spend four years for your half-track, spend two more going through high performance flight training, four more proving you're one of the best, two to four years at Edwards and maybe you'll be an astronaut. But more than likely, you'll get a street named for you at some air base. -- Dillon Pyron | The opinions expressed are those of the TI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support | sender unless otherwise stated. (214)462-3556 (when I'm here) | (214)492-4656 (when I'm home) |UUCP addresses sound more like shootouts pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com |than computer stuff. PADI DM-54909 | ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jan 93 20:00:29 GMT From: Craig Keithley Subject: needed: a real live space helmet Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Jan13.172428.8009@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack) wrote: > > > You will win a spacesuit if you are the fifth? prize winner. Unless you > are fully prepared, don't fix it up and walk around in the back yard > calling "Junebug to Peewee!" Yep, that's dangerous... Last person that did that ended up in a most serious adventure. (See 'Have Spacesuit will travel' by Robert A. Heinlein) Craig Keithley Apple Computer, Inc. keithley@apple.com "I have absolutely no responsibility in this matter, what-so-ever" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 20:55:53 GMT From: "Edward V. Wright" Subject: needed: a real live space helmet Newsgroups: sci.space In rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu (rabjab) writes: >Somebody told me there was a contest I could enter with cereal box >tops to win a spacesuit! But I can't find the cereal. The first thing you need is a business card. Have it printed with the motto, "Have Spacesuit, Will Babble." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 22:14:56 EST From: John Roberts Subject: Oxygen in Biosphere 2 -From: rbw3q@rayleigh.mech.Virginia.EDU (Brad Whitehurst) -Subject: Re: Oxygen in Biosphere 2 -Date: 13 Jan 93 15:07:08 GMT -Organization: University of Virginia - Very interesting! Are the symptoms of non-acclimatized crew -members similar to altitude sickness or does the higher total pressure -prevent some of the altitude sickness symptoms from appearing? I -don't know, but I would assume that HAPE, for instance, requires lower -total pressure. Obviously, a crew member with symptoms that severe -would require immediate attention, and perhaps evacuation. The wide range of conditions known as "mountain sickness" (described in the 10/92 issue of Scientific American) appear to be dependent only on low partial pressure of oxygen. There may be other medical effects resulting from low total pressure (even with full partial pressure of oxygen), but these are less well understood. John Roberts roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 22:37:17 EST From: John Roberts Subject: polar meteorites -From: cain@geomag.gly.fsu.edu (Joe Cain) -Subject: Re: polar meteorites -Date: 12 Jan 93 19:48:19 GMT -Organization: Florida State University Geology Dept. -In article <1993Jan12.124935.1@kean.ucs.mun.ca> jgarland@kean.ucs.mun.ca writes: ->Re. finding meteorites... ->> Over 100 feet of ice pack has formed since 1944 in Greenland. ->Seems to me I remember a childhood reference which stated that Peary found ->a rather large meteorite (multiton) that had been mined by the local residents ->for some time (decades/centuries/millenia???). -Let's see, does that mean that Greenland is like a big glacier? If so, -then would not debris keep moving with the ice flow and eventually -come out at the edges, perhaps becoming part of icebergs!? I don't know about possible spread of glaciers, but one significant effect is the compression of the land. I believe the center of Greenland is now considerably below sea level (with thousands of feet of ice on top). I think the glaciers of North America are still in retreat. John Roberts roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 16:20:48 GMT From: Rich Kolker Subject: Saving an overweight SSTO.... Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Jan11.075346.12742@bby.com.au> gnb@baby.bby.com.au (Gregory N. Bond) writes: > >There are a couple of scenarios here: > >1) It's overweight by some relatively small amount, say, 5000lbs. This > >2) The mass overrun is a substantial fraction of payload, or exceeds > >3) The mass overrun is much larger than that. At this point, the Just some added information. The DC-Y payload weights of 24,800 lb to eastbound LEO and 10,000 lbs to polar LEO are based on conservative design considerations. They include a 15% dry weight pad and a 2 sec of isp pad. What the weight pad means is that dry weight can be as much as 15 % over current design expectations and still make the payload weight. If the dry weight is closer to what they think it will be, then payload obviously goes up. If the engines work the way they think, payload goes up. In other words, theres quite a bit of slop before payload starts going down. ++rich ------------------------------------------------------------------- rich kolker rkolker@nuchat.sccsi.com < Do Not Write In This Space> -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 22:03:43 EST From: John Roberts Subject: water recycling -From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) -Subject: Re: DC-1 and the $23M NASA Toilet -Date: 13 Jan 93 18:00:37 GMT -In article <1j0668INNrai@mirror.digex.com> prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes: ->I watched a NASA fiilm on Select late one night, where they discussed ->the Skylab life support system. Skylab had three seperate water ->recovery systems. identical in function and part. ->Water was recovered from exhalation, urine and the shower/handbasin. ->each system used a wick evaporator to distill h2o and then passed the ->vapor through a carbon filter to remove odor and contaminants. -Odd that this isn't mentioning in "Living and Working in Space", the -NASA History book about Skylab (which has quite a bit of discussion of -the waste-handling systems -- some of the detailed decisions about how -to deal with urine were among the biggest controversies in the project). -Nor is any of it mentioned in the Skylab News Reference (Hardware -and Systems). Nor is any of it mentioned during a how-did-you-go-to- -the-bathroom interview with Rusty Schweickart, who was on one of the -backup Skylab crews. -Sure they weren't talking about the system for the space station? I know -they've put a lot of effort into making recycling work for the station. NASA Select occasionally shows features on planned water recycling systems, and an old clip on design of space stations that recycle both air and water. It could have been one of those. John Roberts roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 045 ------------------------------