Date: Mon, 8 Feb 93 07:25:30 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #132 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Mon, 8 Feb 93 Volume 16 : Issue 132 Today's Topics: ANSWER: International Space University Are Landsat Satellites receivable? Flame it all...re:Challenger, Tragedy, Acetylene Torches and other... Honorary Names (was: Today in 1986-Remember the Challenger) Launching with Pegasus -- Insurance leading-edge anonymity Observing the Znamya space mirror experiment parachutes on Challenger? porsche sale (2 msgs) Russian solar sail flight possibly set for Feb. 4th Shuttle tiles Today in 1986-Remember the Challenger (2 msgs) Two-line elements for Progress M-15 UN Meteor Watch! Using off-the-shelf-components Voyagers Well.. (2 msgs) Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 4 Feb 93 13:36:47 GMT From: Michael Burstein Subject: ANSWER: International Space University Newsgroups: sci.space Thanks to Mark Maimone, Grant Anderson, and Barbara McKissok, I now have the information on how to contact ISU. If anyone else is interested, here it is: ISU 955 Mass. Ave. Cambridge, MA 02139 617-354-1987 e-mail: info@isu.isunet.edu Once again, thanks to all those who responded. -- Michael A. Burstein Physics Department, Boston University mab@buphy.bu.edu 590 Commonwealth Ave. (617) 353-9437 (o) Boston, MA 02215 (617) 735-9433 (h) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1993 17:23:13 GMT From: Alan Raichel Subject: Are Landsat Satellites receivable? Newsgroups: sci.space I have seen some pretty high resolution pictures taken by the Landsat satellites. I think that these have a resolution of something like 100 feet or so. I know that the NOAA HRPT satellites have a resolution of about 2 Km. I think that it would be interesting to see if I could get more. I know that hobiest can recieve APT and HRPT data from the NOAA satellites. What I was wonder if it is possable for people to recieve the data from the Landsat satellites? Since I know nothing about the operations of the Landsat satellites, I was hoping that maybe someone on the net could tell me something about them. 1. Do the Landsat satellites continously transmit pictures of what is below them, or does it only take pictures of schedualed areas? The NOAA satellites continously transmit what is below them, so a station almost anywhere can recieve data about his own area. Is the same true for the Landsat satellites? IF the Landsat satellite only takes pictures of schedualed areas, then it probabally only transmits the data to the control station. This would make it almost impossible for a hobiest to get pictures of what he wants to see. 2. Is the data from the Landsat satellites encrypted? The data from NOAA satellites is in the clear, so any hobiest can recieve, and display the images. If the Landsat data is encrypted, then it would be almost impossable for a hobiest to decode the images. (real show stopper). 3. Are the specifications on frequencies that the satellite transmit on, and data rates, and formats available to the public? If they are not, then it would be difficult to reverse engineer an earth station to recieve this data. If the specifications are available, then it is only a matter of the hobiests budget and creativity to make a system to recieve and display this data. Thanks alan --------------------------------------------------------------------------- NAME: Alan Raichel | ICBM: 76 30' W 39 10' N | If the answer seems EMAIL: araichel@encore.com | CITY: Pasadena, MD | Trivial, then you do CALL: N3IKI | #include | not understand the --------------------------------------------------------- problem! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 15:31:59 GMT From: Michael Jensen Subject: Flame it all...re:Challenger, Tragedy, Acetylene Torches and other... Newsgroups: sci.space I'd like to point out that it might be possible to cut through a shuttle tile IF you were using a very high temp torch from the BACKSIDE of the tile. I'm not very familiar with the actual construction of the tiles so this seems like a reasonable solution, but Ido know for a fact that if you place a torch to the "black" side of the tile, and check to see how much heat get's through to the other side, you will find that the tiles work surprisingly well. Mike -- Michael C. Jensen mjensen@gellersen.valpo.edu Electrical Engineering jensen@cisv.jsc.nasa.gov Valparaiso University mcj0716@exodus.valpo.edu "I bet the human brain is a kludge." -- Marvin Minsky ------------------------------ Date: 3 Feb 93 19:07:13 GMT From: jack hagerty Subject: Honorary Names (was: Today in 1986-Remember the Challenger) Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle In article <31JAN199315342277@juliet.caltech.edu> irwin@juliet.caltech.edu (Horowitz, Irwin Kenneth) writes: >In an attempt to put a slight positive glimmer on this otherwise depressing >subject...5 months after the loss of Challenger, at my graduation from MIT, >on what was an otherwise miserable day (it was pouring and the graduation was >held outside!), the president of MIT, Paul Grey, in his address, announced >that they were renaming the Center for Space Research after Ron McNair, who >had received his doctorate in physics from MIT. Continuing the divergance from this somber thread, Sunnyvale Air Force Station, the "Houston Control" for the military space program, was renamed "Onizuka Air Force Station" after the Challenger. I'm sure there must be some schools named after McCallife (sp?) too. Have the other Challeger crew members been honored by significant namings? - Jack ============================================================================= ||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd. jack@rml.com || ||Livermore, CA NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^ || ||(510) 455-1143 (old ones will still work) || ||-------------------------------------------------------------------------|| || "I'm sorry they're flying so low and jamming your radar, Dimitri, but || || they're trained to do that. It's called, you know, initiative" || ============================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: 03 Feb 93 22:54:46 From: Wales.Larrison@ofa123.fidonet.org Subject: Launching with Pegasus -- Insurance Newsgroups: sci.space (Claudio Egalon) asks:: >There are some talk in the Brazilian community that the Brazilian >satellite, which is scheduled to be launched from a Pegasus rocket, >does not have any insurance. I am wondering if any one here in the >NET could coment on that whether it is true or not. It seems kind >of dumb not insure this satellite since Pegasus was used only twice >in the past and in the second mission did not work very well. In >this case the insurance would have to be provided by Orbital >Science Corp. (the builder of Pegasus) or it is responsability of >the Brazilian Space Agency to insure the satellite? Haven't heard of any insurance coverage on this. Would not be surprised if it is NOT commercially insured. Typically there are three types of insurance that could have been procured here: Relaunch insurance, satellite replacement insurance, and loss of service insurance. Relaunch insurance is given the launcher fails, the insurance pays for another launch. Satellite replacement is similar -- if the satellite fails, the insurance pays for a new satellite. And loss of service insurance pays indemnification if the satellite doesn't work and provide services (keeping cash flow going and paying off penalty clauses in commercial service contracts). There are a myriad of different variations on these basic types of insurance,depending on what you want to pay for. For example, you could insure every which way -- coverage if the launcher failed, the satellite failed, and to keep cash flow coming no matter what. But that would be very expensive (I'd estimate a premium of 30+% of the basic launch + satellite cost), and is probably too expensive for a venture. It is common to produce the basic components of a replacement satellite, and just buy relaunch insurance. (about 15% of launch cost plus 5-15% of the satellite cost) Here, the satellite is a one of a kind device built by the government of Brazil. Who insured what is highly negotiable -- Insuring satellite replacement was probably the responsibility of the government of Brazil (They could have negotiated an insurance clause with OSC for a replacement since OSC does build similar small satellites, but why have an American firm rebuild a Brazilian-built satellite? And adding a clause to OSC to pay for a Brazilian build means OSC will just jack up their price to cover the clause -- and then just re-insure for that amount at Lloyds.) It would be cheaper for the government of Brazil to do that directly, if desired. Replacement of the launcher could have been either -- the government of Brazil could insure it (using government funds or through the Lloyds insurance market), or OSC could be required to provide a reflight guarantee (again, increasing their price to cover reinsurance). If it was me, I'd insure it internally with Brazilian government funds since it's probably easier and cheaper for Brazil to set aside government reserve funds, rather than go to a hard-currency, profit-making entity with a high premium rate. As for loss of service -- this is a government program. Those Brazilian civil servants will be paid if it succeeds or fails. So no penalty clauses -- no loss of service insurance. John Neff replies: >It was my understanding that the underwriters would not insure >payloads on launch vehicles with less than the minimum nuber need >to estimate the risk. I do not know what the minimum number is, but >I bet it is more than two. Insurance is better called "risk management". Insurers provide to a venturer a way to manage some of the financial risks involved in a venture by allowing them to tap into other financial pools in certain circumstances, for a price. An insurer makes money by balancing overall premiums against probable losses -- and prudent insurers do a lot of work and research to understand the risks inherent in a venture (which is also a resource to the venturer). You can get insurance for a new, untested launch vehicle. (Heck, you can get insurance for ANYTHING.) But you will pay a high premium. If the insurer can balance a single launch's risk against others (Delta and Atlas and Ariane launches) through a pool then you can get a lower premium. And if you can show a good risk reduction program (like good test data), you can get a lower premium, yet. The first Atlas IIAS launch was insured -- based upon similarity to previous Atlas launches, the Atlas IIAS test record, specific design features in the Atlas (plus the insurer's analyses), and from a pool for general satellite launches. You could have insured this Pegasus launch -- but for a hefty premium, and it probably was cheaper for the government of Brazil to "self insure" with future government funds. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Wales Larrison Space Technology Investor --- Maximus 2.01wb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 01:20:17 GMT From: Tesuji Subject: leading-edge anonymity Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.privacy X-Anon-To:sci.space,sci.astro,alt.privacy I believe that fast adapters are accepting anonymous postings as the next step in personal freedom in communication. True, it may encourage irresponsible postings, especially as a novel device. But just like the keyboard tends to reward content by not advertising race, creed, color, age, or sex, so to anonymous postings prevent false halos (or horns) based upon one's posting site or current supposed reputation. The material stands on the content, not the poster. I look at it as taking the name off papers submitted for refereeing. I think the Bell Lab Boys are griping because they are used to disproportionate power wielded over less-connected sites or less prestigious institutions. Anonymous posting get rid of this bias. So -- rather than flame the content of anonymous postings, figure out how to sieve based on content more efficiently. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 05:10:46 GMT From: apryan@vax1.tcd.ie Subject: Observing the Znamya space mirror experiment Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1kk9l3INN7o8@gap.caltech.edu>, palmer@cco.caltech.edu (David M. Palmer) writes: > Does anyone have any information that could help to watch the > Znamya space mirror? Specificaly, when is it going to be deployed, > for how long, will it be in approximately the same orbit as Mir, > or does anyone have the expected elements? > Local radio station rang up Astronomy Ireland and did interview withAstronomy Ireland chairman David Moore in which the newsreader said deployment Thu. Feb. 4 5 hours and some minutes UT. David was saying Mir visible in morning skies over UK and Ireland !!! How much brighter will it be with sail? Times to see it each morning are given on our newslines below: -Tony Ryan, Hon. Sec., Astronomy Ireland, P.O.Box 2888, Dublin 1. newslines (48p/36p per min): 0891-88-1950 (UK/NI) 1550-111-442 (Eire) Let me know if you see it! If you're an experienced observer, record the time to the nearest second when it passes directly above or below any any well known bright star or planet. Send your latitude & longitude or name of nearest big town and I'll look up its position. ------------------------------ Date: 3 Feb 93 18:48:10 GMT From: Bruce Watson Subject: parachutes on Challenger? Newsgroups: sci.space In article Subject: porsche sale Newsgroups: alt.california,msu.admin,msu.general,alt.antiques,sci.aeronautic,sci.bio,sci.chem,sci.engr.chem,sci.engr.mech,sci.med,sci.physics,sci.space,rec.auto,rec.autos clem@cs.montana.edu (Robert Clements) writes: : : FORE SALE : : 1988 Porsche 924s - special edition - showroom condition : 23,070 miles, jet black, ac, 5spd., grey&burg. clth<hr interior : car is in Billings, Montana : Not fore play? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 03:01:50 GMT From: John Snyder Subject: porsche sale Newsgroups: alt.california,msu.admin,msu.general,alt.antiques,sci.aeronautic,sci.bio,sci.chem,sci.engr.chem,sci.engr.mech,sci.med,sci.physics,sci.space,rec.auto,rec.autos In article <1993Feb3.181328.8436@coe.montana.edu> clem@cs.montana.edu (Robert Clements) writes: >Attention: >This ad is meant for those who live in the region or can afford to fly >here and drive or ship the car back. > >FORE SALE > >1988 Porsche 924s - special edition - showroom condition >23,070 miles, jet black, ac, 5spd., grey&burg. clth<hr interior >car is in Billings, Montana > >email me clem@fubar.cs.montana.edu as to what it might be worth to you >i'll get back in touch with who ever thinks it worth the most and we'll >go from there. > >Thax for putting up with this post and sorry I could not post it to >a more ideal newsgroup. > >-- >**** Clem@fubar.cs.montana.edu ***** >Whitehouse - the next generation >(1st)No.1- It's wrong to create a whole race of humans to live as slaves. >Clintoon - Resistance is futile. Your hard earned incomes will be assimilated. This reminds me of the Bloom County comic strip series on Opus the Pengiun's Star Trek defense system. When he heard that Congress might cut his funds, he screamed, "...For cryin' out loud, Research Physicists need Porsches, too!" John snyder@henry.ece.cmu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 15:29:34 GMT From: Leigh Palmer Subject: Russian solar sail flight possibly set for Feb. 4th Newsgroups: sci.space In article Curtis Roelle, roelle@uars_mag.jhuapl.edu writes: >Please do. We wouldn't want anyone's astrophotos ruined by the thing. We saw it, and it was flashing! I had hoped they'd point the beam straight down and hold it steady. I'd like to give a detailed report, but my cassette recorder failed me for the first time in about a hundred uses. There's something on the tape, but I won't get any great timing info. Progress/Znamya passed nearly through our zenith here in Burnaby, British Columbia, about 6:35 am. It was flashing with a period of about five seconds and a duty cycle of about 50%. I saw no especially bright flash, and I have seen much brighter flashes several times from other satellites, so I don't think we got specular sun here. At peak the flashes could not have been much brighter than Jupiter, which is a mag -2 right now. About four minutes later we observed Mir itself with a dimmer object leading it by about two degrees. They too went through the zenith. Mir was brighter than Jupiter, but I've seen Mir when it looked even a little brighter than it did this morning. Oh, well, the morning was still an aesthetic success, and we reaffirmed our faith in Newton and the two-line elements! Leigh ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 05:51:38 GMT From: shanleyl@ducvax.auburn.edu Subject: Shuttle tiles Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Feb3.054618.19369@netcom.com>, nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle)Re: Let's be more specific (was: Stupid Shut Cost arguements) > After the first shuttle flights, it turned out, as I recall, that > the thermal protection requirements had been somewhat overestimated, and > that titanium-based thermal protection would have worked. I think Buran > uses titanium, avoiding all those annoying problems with machining and > glueing ceramics. If Buran uses titanium, it is still in concert with ceramic tiles. However, as these tiles are not as technically advanced as the Lockheed TPS tiles, you might compare them to the tiles you find on your bathroom floor or wall. Mind you, that is in appearance not in performance. It might be interesting to note that the first batch of tiles being considered for Buran, were made in the only facility that the Soviet Union had to handle it....a bathroom tile factory. Sincerely, Paul Sylvester Shanley Researcher ad Infinitum et al School of Human Sciences Auburn University 308 Spidle Hall Auburn University, Alabama 36849 United States of America VOICE: 205 844 1339 office VOICE: 205 887 7440 home FAX: 205 844 1340 office e-mail pshanley@humsci.auburn.edu or shanleyl@ducvax.auburn.edu ad astra per Mylanta ------------------------------ Date: 4 Feb 93 11:41:05 GMT From: Alan Greig Subject: Today in 1986-Remember the Challenger Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle In article <2470@snap>, paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson) writes: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I think you should shout at your news admin. Putting out your address in UK NRS order will just guarantee that most people won't be able to reply without manually reversing the domains. > -- > Paul Johnson (paj@gec-mrc.co.uk). | Tel: +44 245 73331 ext 3245 > --------------------------------------------+---------------------------------- > These ideas and others like them can be had | GEC-Marconi Research is not > for $0.02 each from any reputable idealist. | responsible for my opinions -- Alan Greig Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH Dundee Institute of Technology Internet: Alan@DCT.AC.UK Tel: (0382) 308810 Int: +44 382 308810 -- There is only one true conspiracy -- ------------------------------ Date: 4 Feb 93 13:40:32 GMT From: Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX Subject: Today in 1986-Remember the Challenger Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >to move the primary O-rings out of position) that was devastating. >The SRB joint certainly was a bad design that needed real revision, >but lowering the leak-test pressure back to its original value and >avoiding low-temperature launches would have been enough to make >launches reasonably safe, safe enough to resume a limited schedule As I recall a number of safety related changes were made after Challenger, quite apart from the SRB joints and the escape pole. Were these significant in terms of overall safety? In other words, how much safer is Shuttle for having stood down all that time compared to just not flying on cold days, etc.? >People who are close to it tell me that the pressure to get the launch up >on time is present again. Bearers of bad news are never going to be overly Much of the pressure to launch Callenger came from the media. Remember how the TV anchors were taking shots at NASA for not getting Challenger off? (Significantly this aspect never quite made it to the Challenger TV movie scripts....) These days the media doesn't seem to get on NASA's case for launch delays. The Challenger break-up certainly rather lowered my spirits for some days. I'm certain this had more to do with what the shuttle means to us than with the abrupt death of 7 fine individuals, none of whom I knew of beforehand. Why don't we mention the workers killed working on Shuttle? They didn't have the Right Stuff, they didn't get a chance to Touch the Face of God, but they paid the price just the same. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf Author of YMODEM, ZMODEM, Professional-YAM, ZCOMM, and DSZ Omen Technology Inc "The High Reliability Software" 17505-V NW Sauvie IS RD Portland OR 97231 503-621-3406 ------------------------------ Date: 3 Feb 93 19:14:59 GMT From: Bruce Watson Subject: Two-line elements for Progress M-15 Newsgroups: sci.space Progress M15 1 22203U 92 71 A 93 27.90245313 .00043442 00000-0 56551-3 0 775 2 22203 51.6195 203.8938 0002112 322.9384 36.9511 15.58302839 14361 -- Bruce Watson (wats@scicom.alphaCDC.COM) Bulletin 629-49 Item 6700 Extract 75,131 ------------------------------ Date: 4 Feb 93 11:54:34 GMT From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu Subject: UN Meteor Watch! Newsgroups: sci.space I wonder is there a organization as part of the United Nations that is in charge of Meteor watches?? IT is an idea.. Why must it be only the US or maybe the old CIS who watches out for meteors and other space flotsamn, jetsom and flora and fauna.. == Michael Adams alias Ghost Wheel/Morgoth NSMCA@acad2.alaska.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 93 10:27:35 GMT From: Jerry Szopinski Mfg 4-6983 Subject: Using off-the-shelf-components Newsgroups: sci.space Edward V. Wright (ewright@convex.com) wrote: : In <1993Jan27.190735.17499@cc.ic.ac.uk> atae@crab.ph.ic (Ata Etemadi) writes: : : > Are there any companies out there whose off-the-shelf products are : >space-qualified ? : : That depends on what you mean by space-qualified. The Russians : consider canned borsht from the local supermartski to be space- : qualified. NASA doesn't. : : Space-qualifed today means : : 1) lightweight (because transportation is so expensive), : 2) reliable (because there's no one to fix it it breaks down), and : 3) able to operate in conditions of extreme heat, cold, vaccuum, etc. : : Given a reliable, low-cost space transportation system, 1 and 2 : become much less important. And if you have a rotating space : station, with artificial gravity and earth-normal or near-normal : atmosphere, 3 ceases to be important as well, and you can buy : just about everything off the shelf. : : -- Even given reliable, low-cost space transport and space stations with artificial gravity, etc., you're still going to need parts that are going to withstand the rigors of space travel. Space stations and bases are going to be spread-out pretty far; it wom't be like jumping into your car and running down to the nearest mall. Some space facilities won't have the ability to manufacture their own components/equipment; these places will have to be resupplied from some other facility/planet. Then there's the fact that some missions/explorations are going to last weeks, months, maybe even years. The spacecraft used on those missions will most likely have limited storage space; it won't be able to carry large quantities of spare parts. In the early 1960's the government established a series of Military Standard (MIL-STD) specifications for components that were to go into NASA and military vehicles/equipment. These specifications require items to be tested above and beyond the normal testing that manufacturers usually do; this is the main reason why NASA/military-qualified parts cost so much. If a man is going to go into space on a mission that is going to last quite a long period of time he's going to want everything on his craft to work perfectly from the time that he "lights the candle" to the time he returns. And, if a component should happen to fail while he's out there, he doesn't want to waste his valuable time troubleshooting/fixing/ swapping-out parts. I don't know about anyone else but I have a hard time believing that a part from Radio Schlock is going to survive the rigors of space travel. Jerry ======================================================================= Jerry Szopinski I have an agreement with my employers: I won't speak for them, and they won't cut-off my cookie supply. "It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave and keep on thinking free!" -- Moody Blues ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 93 14:09:20 EST From: Jean-Luc Picard Subject: Voyagers Newsgroups: sci.space Hello to all. I was just wondering...Does anyone know if NASA is still getting downloads from the Voyagers 1&2? And if so, how far out are they now? --- Jean-Luc Picard - tomcater@midnite.pinetree.org >> Midnite Mania Information Services << ------------------------------ Date: 3 Feb 93 22:00:10 GMT From: "Jason W. Hinson" Subject: Well.. Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.misc,rec.arts.startrek.tech produit@ux5.lbl.gov (nicolas produit) writes: Subject: Well.. To travel 60 light years at Warp 1 would take 60 years to an observer on Earth but the actual Astronaut involved would only experience a 2 year, 8 month journey due to Time Dilation. This is traveling at 0.999c not actually. I'm no physicist so perhaps someone can explain what is actually meant by Warp One - do you mean 'c' or a speed just pasth the threshold of the speed of light? ---------------------------------------------------------------- Stephen Scrimgeour Department of Mathematics and Computer Science University of Dundee Dundee, DD1 4HN. [e-mail: sscrimge@uk.ac.dund.mcs] ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary From: Curtis Roelle Subject: Re: IRAS - 10 Years Ago Message-Id: Sender: USENET News System Organization: Johns Hopkins University References: <31JAN199300441108@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov> <93033.204827GMS@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: 3 Feb 93 18:53:40 GMT Lines: 5 Source-Info: Sender is really news@CRABAPPLE.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU Source-Info: Sender is really isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU roelle@uars_mag.jhuapl.edu (Curtis Roelle) writes: >twin star clusters M46 and M46 in Puppis, or so I thought. I pointed ^--- "M47", of course (oops) >Curt Roelle ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 132 ------------------------------