Date: Fri, 12 Feb 93 10:38:13 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #150 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Fri, 12 Feb 93 Volume 16 : Issue 150 Today's Topics: An 'agitator' replies (was: Clinton's Promises...) Annonymous Postings!? Clinton Email Address Cooling re-entry vehicles. (3 msgs) Fred is dead again. hilarious Ideal fuel for 'anti-matter' engine KSC Weather Money->Shuttle/SSF New Russian Solar Sail results - data to help you see it Polar Orbit Tethers for electricity generation (was Re: Beanstalk?) The day before Challenger exploded. Today in 1986-Remember the Challenger (2 msgs) Znamya/Mir over Nome Alaska.. Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 6 Feb 1993 23:03:35 -0500 From: Matthew DeLuca Subject: An 'agitator' replies (was: Clinton's Promises...) Newsgroups: sci.space In article ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes: >In <1kugvoINN4l@phantom.gatech.edu> matthew@phantom.gatech.edu (Matthew DeLuca) writes: >>Agreed. However, next time they go up they're way ahead of the game and >>can adapt much more quickly. >Uh, no, it doesn't work that way. Once you come back to Earth, you >have to start all over again. I'd be surprised if that was the case. Physiological reactions to weightlessness will occur at the same rate, I am sure, but learned reactions and skills such as how to physically move about and how to perform basic functions should be picked up much faster than the first time around. -- Matthew DeLuca Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!matthew Internet: matthew@phantom.gatech.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 03:41:39 GMT From: Josh Hopkins Subject: Annonymous Postings!? Newsgroups: sci.space nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu writes: >I can think of one good reason for Annonynous postings, and that is whistle >blowing.. If anything to get someone to look into the "problem" and such.. A fairly common reason for anonymous postings is privacy. Given the number of things one can learn about someone through the net (and other means) this can be a legitimate concern. I tend to be pretty skeptical of much of the stuff posted by unfamiliar people unless it sounds reasonable. In that sense it doesn't matter too much whether you're anonymous or just someone I don't know. I would strongly recommend however that people use a nickname or pseduonym if they wish to post anonymously so that they have a chance to build up some respect. -- Josh Hopkins jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Q: Why did the chicken cross the mobius strip? A: To get to the other... er, uh... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 02:45:54 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: Clinton Email Address Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space I would urge people seeking to promote space *NOT* to use this address. Email is so easy that it will soon loose any influence it may have. Writing and phoning will be far more effective. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "A great man is one who does nothing but leaves | | aws@iti.org | nothing undone" | +----------------------129 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 93 15:34:36 PST From: Brian Stuart Thorn Subject: Cooling re-entry vehicles. Newsgroups: sci.space >The British navy also (I believe the original idea was that of a >British engineer). Works really well, too. The main advantage from a >navy's point of view is not strength (although ice+sawdust _is_ a >surprisingly strong and not particularly brittle material) but another >property of ice. You can blow many truck-sized holes in an ice >aircraft-carrier, and it won't sink. (n.b. the project was for >carriers and other large (or extremely large) vessels; don't think it >was ever mooted for battleships). Armed Forces Network TV runs a little spot about "American Military Heritage", and they have a spot about Picrete (sp?) which was a mixture of ice and sawdust for use in the construction of aircraft carriers. Supposedly would have made carriers impervious to torpedo attack. The Navy didn't buy it, though. :-) The title of the spot suggests that the concept was an American innovation. -Brian ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian S. Thorn "If ignorance is bliss, BrianT@cup.portal.com this must be heaven." -Diane Chambers, "Cheers" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 7 Feb 93 01:46:54 GMT From: Tracy Ratcliff Subject: Cooling re-entry vehicles. Newsgroups: sci.space In article <75011@cup.portal.com> BrianT@cup.portal.com (Brian Stuart Thorn) writes: >>The British navy also (I believe the original idea was that of a >>British engineer)[...] > > Armed Forces Network TV runs a little spot about "American Military > Heritage", and they have a spot about Picrete (sp?) [...] > The title of the spot suggests that the concept was an American > innovation. >BrianT@cup.portal.com Am I the only person who remembers "Pyke Speaks"? There used to be an NBC news show anchored by Lloyd Dobbins and Linda Ellerby that alternated once a month with _Saturday Night Live_ called (I believe) _Weekend_. A regular feature was "Pyke Speaks", where they let an eccentric British physicist (or is that redundant?) rattle on stream-of-consciousness. I first heard of 'pykecrete' here. It was a creation of Prof. Pyke's brother (I think... it's been 15 years). Not uniquely for the time, the British defense bureaucracy didn't want to have anything to do with it, so it went to the Americans. footnote: if it's not clear, I'm talking US television. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 05:12:04 GMT From: Dave Michelson Subject: Cooling re-entry vehicles. Newsgroups: sci.space In article <75011@cup.portal.com> BrianT@cup.portal.com (Brian Stuart Thorn) writes: > > Armed Forces Network TV runs a little spot about "American Military > Heritage", and they have a spot about Picrete (sp?) which was a > mixture of ice and sawdust for use in the construction of aircraft > carriers. Supposedly would have made carriers impervious to torpedo > attack. The Navy didn't buy it, though. :-) > > The title of the spot suggests that the concept was an American > innovation. From J.E. Gordon, "The New Science of Strong Materials," 2ed. Penguin, pp. 175-176: For a time in the Battle of the Atlantic, the worst shipping losses were taking place in the central regions of the Atlantic where it was not then possible to provide air cover. It occurred to that very eccentric genius, the late Geoffrey Pyke, that one solution would be to tow an iceberg into the middle of the Atlantic and use it as an aircraft carrier... [description of mechanical properties of natural ice and resulting problems] Pyke countered these objections by adding a little wood-pulp to his ice. He was able to show that about two per cent of ordinary paper pulp added to water before freezing very greatly improved the properties of the ice and also rendered it more consistent. [description of strength and toughness curves] The idea was to add the pulp and allow the water to freeze naturally in a sea-loch in Newfoundland. The scheme was abandoned when the increasing range of aircraft and the general trend of the Battle of the Atlantic made it unnecessary... This isn't exactly "primary source material" but it is rather specific.. It certainly explains why the ice/pulp composite was called "Pykrete" on the documentary that you mentioned. --- Dave Michelson University of British Columbia davem@ee.ubc.ca Antenna Laboratory ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 01:27:01 GMT From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu Subject: Fred is dead again. Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space In article , neff@iaiowa.physics.uiowa.edu (John S. Neff) writes: > In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >>From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) >>Subject: Re: Fred is dead again. >>Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 04:17:29 GMT >>In article <1993Feb5.232215.25334@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes: >>>... Director of OMB Panetta is proposing (and Clinton seems >>>to be accepting) a $12 billion NASA budget. The money is to come from >>>ending Freedom and ASRM. >> >>Latest news: Clinton has denied any plan to terminate Fred, although >>he has not ruled out cutting it back. >>-- >>C++ is the best example of second-system| Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology >>effect since OS/360. | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry > > According to a New York Times article Saturday the proposals to cut SSF and > the super collider were trial balloons. The Clinton proposals recieved a > hostile reaction from the supporters of these projects in congress. The NYT > called both of these projects scientific pork barrel. If the > congressional opponents of these projects make an attempt to > eliminate them, the Clinton administration probably would not fight to keep > them. Send email to Clinton friend: see follwoing email address.. Clinton's email address web@tsavo.hks.com (Peter Webb), Hibbitt, Karlsson & Sorenson,Inc. Date: 1 Feb 93 06:40:46 -0800 [ fwd's removed ] Communications Daily, January 19, 1993 CLINTON WHITE HOUSE TO MAKE DOCUMENTS AVAILABLE ELECTRONICALLY BODY: Carrying through successful campaign operation, Clinton Administration this week will become first White House to set up office dedicated to making official Presidential documents available electronically for widespread distribution. There has been limited distribution of White House press information in past through now-defunct Dialcom, but nothing on scale that Clinton staff is contemplating. Clinton transition effort has named Jonathan Gill as director of Electronic Publishing and Public Access E-Mail. Gill, software developer from Medford, Mass., signed onto Clinton campaign as electronic mail coordinator. He originally worked from home, later moved to Little Rock as demands on system became more intense. At one point, Clinton E-mail operation was answering 5,000 queries daily, most sent out automatically. Gill will work in White House Office of Communications with Jeff Eller, who was named deputy asst. to President and dir.-Media Affairs. Eller is credited with moving electronic computer communications for first time into mainstream of political campaigns. Clinton's address is: 75300.3115@compuserve.com Ramona Curry -- Peter Webb webb@hks.com Hibbitt, Karlsson & Sorensen, Inc. Voice: 401-727-4200 1080 Main St, Pawtucket RI 02860 FAX: 401-727-4208 Let Clinton know that there is more important things than cutting SSF budget.. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 01:20:24 GMT From: Patrick L Humphrey Subject: hilarious Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.privacy On Sat, 6 Feb 1993 22:11:00 GMT, jt_rask@pavo.concordia.ca (RASKU, JASON T.) said: >In article <1993Feb6.183234.7579@fuug.fi>, an8785@anon.penet.fi (Tesuji) writes... >>X-Anon-To:sci.space,sci.astro,alt.privacy >> >>The response the Challenger transcript has gotten >>has been hilarious. >> >>If you guys can't joke about bone cancer, >>childhood leukemia, and facing certain >>horrifying death, then you guys don't have >>the perspective to call yourself adults. >> >>Get a life. Get *seven*. Ha ha. >Is there anything that can be done to prevent anon postings in groups that >there is no reason to post anonomously? I CAN see some people who don't >have access to a group posting anonomously but I'm sure that consideration >can be made for them. Is there ANY way that a UNIVERSAL kill file can be >created in order to keep people from posting GARBAGE anonomusly? There is >NO reason to not post publicly if you are posting something you feel is of >worth unless you CAN'T post any other way. What does the rest of the net >think of this? This corner of Usenet thinks you're another clueless newbie who could use learning a few tenets of common sense. I don't think any more highly of Tesuji's appalling humor than you do -- but I don't spend my time trying to make sure he can't post it. If you don't like it, there's one simple option -- your "n" key. Once you've figured that out, then you can try a killfile, which will prevent *you* from reading his junk -- there is no such thing as a killfile that will prevent anyone from posting, and that's a good thing, I think. Otherwise, it could be used to silence opinions that might not mesh with those of the powers that be -- which means it could be used to shut YOU up. Finally, be a little more accurate, and say there's no reason YOU can think of to post anonymously -- just because you can't think of a reason why in no way implies that none exist... --PLH, we now return you to our regularly scheduled food fight... -- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 00:43:48 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: Ideal fuel for 'anti-matter' engine Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Feb6.044038.2480@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes: >The subject pretty much says it all. If you had close to unlimited >energy for input to the fuel (say from anti-matter reactions) as you >exhausted it, what would be the best fuel to carry from a performance >standpoint? What does "performance" mean? You're going to have to be more specific. In particular, you'll get different answers depending on whether you optimize for thrust or for exhaust velocity. With plenty of energy, you can get reasonable exhaust velocities without having to optimize hard for them, and other considerations can take priority. For example, a really exhaust-velocity-optimized antimatter engine uses just enough hydrogen to react completely with the antihydrogen, and has an exhaust consisting mostly of proton-antiproton annihilation products (charged pions if the engine is compact, muons if it's big). Exhaust velocity here is a large fraction of the speed of light, although you have to discount it some to allow for losses to gamma rays etc. But the mass flow is probably going to be limited by gamma-ray heating of nearby systems, so thrust will probably be low. This is an interstellar engine, giving high final velocities with modest mass ratios but long acceleration times. (Actually, there has been some speculation that you might get more charged particles and fewer neutral pions and gamma rays if you combined antiprotons with heavy nuclei, but I don't know if anyone has investigated this yet.) By contrast, antimatter rockets for local work (within the solar system) will probably accept lower exhaust velocity to obtain higher thrusts and more rapid acceleration to more modest final velocities. -- C++ is the best example of second-system| Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology effect since OS/360. | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 93 15:36:10 PST From: Brian Stuart Thorn Subject: KSC Weather Newsgroups: sci.space >The problem with Florida weather is not that it's worse than anywhere >else -- although you can make a case for this, it's not an accident that >KSC gets used by people doing lightning research -- but that it is very >hard to predict very far in advance. The advantage of landing the shuttle >at Edwards is not that Edwards's weather is better (although it is) but >that an Edwards weather prediction is fairly reliable. KSC not only gets >lots of thunderstorms, it gets lot of *surprise* thunderstorms, including >some that go from "chance of a thunderstorm today" to "major thunderstorm" >in the time from de-orbit burn to landing. The lightning is true enough. You can count on alot of it between 3:00 and 5:00pm every day from April to October. Lesson: Don't bother scheduling a launch or landing for late afternoon. The weather at KSC (and the Florida peninsula in general) is very good most of the rest of the time. Anyone who has lived in Florida for any period of time will readily agree. You get bad weather in the non-afternoon hours only from a storm front, which can be seen coming easily (the local TV weathercasters seem to have no trouble telling us that "Wednesday's going to be a real wet day.") and is no different than Vandenberg or Kourou. I can think of only one or two Shuttle missions which were scrubbed because of thunderstorms (STS-51I in August, 1985, for one, I think.) The other weather delays were because of crosswinds on the SLF or high altitude winds, etc. On the other hand, NASA tried to launch an Atlas-Centaur into a storm front in 1987. It became a flying lightning rod. Zap, kaboom. No more Atlas-Centaur. Lesson: Don't launch expensive boosters into storm fronts. >Ever wondered why they always roll the shuttle out to the pad in the wee >small hours of the morning? It's because the chances of a surprise >thunderstorm are lowest then. For the Saturn V this didn't matter, >because it had an umbilical tower on the mobile pad to carry a lightning >rod, but that tower got removed for the shuttle program. The orbiter >has no lightning protection between the VAB and the pad, so they worry >about the weather during a rollout. (By contrast, the first Saturn V >rolled out to the pad in weather so bad that they had to stop for 20 >minutes or so because the visibility was too poor for safe driving.) Not exactly, Henry. They roll-out in the wee hours so as to not be on the road in the afforementioned 3 to 5pm hours, when the thunder storms are as reliable as clocks for telling time. Pre-dawn is usually calmer, but remember what happened to STS-8? Those pictures of lightning dancing around Challenger are still used in weather books. I'm still chuckling that they had to stop a <1mph crawler because of visibility. Good grief! At that speed, a guy can walk along ahead with an umbrella! -Brian ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian S. Thorn "If ignorance is bliss, BrianT@cup.portal.com this must be heaven." -Diane Chambers, "Cheers" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 01:17:45 GMT From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu Subject: Money->Shuttle/SSF Newsgroups: sci.space Seems liek we are stuck with the Shuttle wether we like it or not.. Also seems like we are stuck with SSF. So lets all do what we can to support them.. Even if we don't like it.. It seems liek the best we have for the moment and we have spent all that money and we as might as wel get something from it.. Michael Adams Alias: Morgoth/Ghost Wheel nsmca@acad2.alaska.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 03:29:40 GMT From: Leigh Palmer Subject: New Russian Solar Sail results - data to help you see it Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1l10q1INNr9n@rave.larc.nasa.gov> Claudio Egalon, claudio@nmsb.larc.nasa.gov writes: >From what I could read, the solar sail now is flying separetely from >the Progress. My question is was it supposed to be this way or the >separation occured because of a problem with the solar sail and >Progress ship? I heard an interview today with one of the Russians on this project. I infer from what he said that they "had to jetison it". There may have been a control problem with Progress (my speculation). Leigh ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 05:24:40 GMT From: Dave Michelson Subject: Polar Orbit Newsgroups: sci.space In article <21966@ksr.com> clj@ksr.com (Chris Jones) writes: > >Well, one of us (you, me, or the "director of aerospace studies at the >University of Toronto") is mistaken. I don't have a detailed reference, but >everything I can recall says that there's no advantage to being near the poles >to launch into a polar orbit.... > >It's just a guess, but I think it would be more advantageous to look for a high >mountain from which to launch rather than a northerly latitude. That way you'd >have less of that thick air to punch through. Once again, thanks for the reply. Here's the exact quotation from "A Space Race" by John Greenwood from the Financial Post Magazine, Dec. 1992. (pp.30--36): Most small satellites [of the type used in systems like Iridium and such] will orbit around the poles of the earth. "Theoretically, you can send a satellite into polar orbit from anywhere on the globe," says Rod Tennyson, director of the University of Toronto's Institute for Aerospace Studies. "But it's most economical to do it from a pad close to the pole. And the people who can do things for the lowest cost are going to come out on top in this business." One of the major players in the proposal to re-open the Churchill rocket range for commercial business is the originator of the proposal, Bob Richards. Prior to joining `Canadian Space Technologies' in 1990, Richards was one of the founders of the Cambridge-based International Space University, a prestigious training ground for some of the world's top space entrepreneurs and academics. === Once again, I admit that *my* calculations don't show much of an advantage to launching into polar orbit from a polar latitude either. But if these guys think there is, I have to concede the possibility that I'm missing something. The best route, I suppose, would be to contact Professor Tennyson directly. It's entirely possible that he was "misquoted out of context". Henry, since you obviously have a UofT directory handy, could you let me have his address so that I can send him a brief note? Thanks, in advance. --- Dave Michelson University of British Columbia davem@ee.ubc.ca Antenna Laboratory ------------------------------ Date: 7 Feb 1993 05:32:16 GMT From: David Smith Subject: Tethers for electricity generation (was Re: Beanstalk?) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Feb3.154718.14078@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes: >In article <1993Feb1.201605.1@acad3.alaska.edu> nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu writes: >as well. Shuttle had an experiment to try it out. Remember the stuck >reel? The main problem is the return circuit. It takes two wires to >make a light as we say in the electrical contracting business. A tether >moving through a magnetic field has a current induced into it, but a >return wire would have an equal and opposing current induced into it, >so no net current would flow. To get around that, you use brush discharge >contactors to use the global circuit as your return path. One of the >things our stuck reel satellite was supposed to test was how well that >would work. > What about a coaxial cable? I should think a current would be generated in the sheath but the center conductor would be shielded? Or am I forgetting my physics here? -- David L. Smith smithd@discos.com or davsmith@nic.cerf.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 93 15:35:27 PST From: Brian Stuart Thorn Subject: The day before Challenger exploded. Newsgroups: sci.space >But December 1985 was Jake Garn's flight. It was do to land on a Thursday, >I think. (I may have the day of the week wrong, but that doesn't affect >what follows.) The following is what really began scaring me... Close, but no cigar. STS-61C Columbia carried Bill Nelson, then-Congressman from the Florida district encompassing Cape Canaveral. Senator Garn flew in April, 1985. STS-61C was scheduled for launch before Christmas in 1985, but was repeatedly delayed until January 12, 1986. The multiple setbacks (two launch scrubs within one minute of liftoff) for STS-61C and the nuisance bugs which afflicted Challenger on January 27, *should* have been enough warning to the NASA brass that something was seriously wrong. There has been word here that some of the pre-Challenger pressures are re-emerging. Maybe so, but there has been *nothing* like what was going on at the Cape in December '85 - January '86. The closest they've come was the STS-52 mission which was launched into weather conditions which may, or may not, have been out of RTLS requirements. That's not exactly pressing on with the schedule ten days after finishing a seriously problem-plagued flight. -Brian ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian S. Thorn "If ignorance is bliss, BrianT@cup.portal.com this must be heaven." -Diane Chambers, "Cheers" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 04:34:44 GMT From: Dave Michelson Subject: Today in 1986-Remember the Challenger Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle In article <4285@phred.UUCP> petej@phred.UUCP (Peter Jarvis) writes: > >PJ - What has to happen for it to *be* a national tragedy? Being part of >PJ - the job doesn't make it less tragic. What word would you use? IMHO, a *good* example of a "national tragedy" are all those people who were left homeless by hurricane Andrew because state building codes had been circumvented by greedy developers. Or all those people who lost money when the Savings and Loans had their problems. The "system" failed "the people" on a very large scale in both cases due to nothing more than the greed of a relatively small group of people in positions of trust. But that's just *my* opinion. --- Dave Michelson University of British Columbia davem@ee.ubc.ca Antenna Laboratory ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 04:04:51 GMT From: Barbara Trumpinski Subject: Today in 1986-Remember the Challenger Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle In henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: mary says: [ ] >>it's regrettable, but it happens. I still accept any ride I can... >Well, Mary exaggerates slightly... I don't think Rosamond Boulevard >is named after dead aircrew (it's named after the town at its west >end)... but only slightly, because the rest are. The NASA History >book on Dryden (NASA SP-4303, "On The Frontier") is punctuated by >quiet little notes like "he was killed a year later when the XYZ-5 >crashed", and it's not even discussing a lot of the USAF activity. >We know that Mel Apt was the first man to reach Mach 3 only because >we can read the machmeter on the cockpit camera film that was dug >out of the wreckage of the X-2... >This is why Jerry Pournelle is so fond of saying that the DC-Y should >be flown by test pilots, not astronauts. If a test pilot dies, you >sigh, hold a memorial service, name a street after him at Edwards, >and then figure out what happened, fix it, and carry on flying. If >an astronaut dies, the entire program comes to a screeching halt for >two or three years, and no sacrifice of schedules, usefulness, or >customers is too great to ensure it doesn't happen again. Except >that it will anyway, no matter how badly you cripple the program >in the name of safety, unless you ground the thing permanently. >If we are ever to have routine spaceflight -- the sort that might >get you or me up there -- this absolutely requires tolerance for the >occasional crash, especially during a new vehicle's early test >period... that is, its first (say) 100 flights. If your response >to thinking about Challenger is "never again!", you are part of the >problem, not part of the solution. >When you remember Challenger, remember also that the devastating >effect it had on the space program was unnecessary and unwarranted. >-- >"God willing... we shall return." | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology > -Gene Cernan, the Moon, Dec 1972 | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry i normally thicopyinga previous speakers words verbatim are a waste of bandwidth, but you said a mouthful, henry....i don't think the challenger astronauts wanted to die...but they sure as hell wanted to LIVE... that's why they took the chance they did. death is a part of the cycle...and if you are afraid to die you are afraid to live...and if weare to go to spacee and be successful there, some people might have to die. it is sad. but it is better than the alternative. barb -- *************************************************************************** conan the librarian a.k.a. kitten /\ /\ barbara ann "my life's a soap opera, isn't yours?" {=.=} ~ trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu "scrambled eggs....gee, i really love your legs..." lennon/mccartney ------------------------------ Date: 7 Feb 93 01:01:43 GMT From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu Subject: Znamya/Mir over Nome Alaska.. Newsgroups: sci.space Can anyone email me when Mir and the Solar Sail next pass over Nome, Alaska.. About 90 miles east of the Date Line and 90 miles south of the Arctic Circle.. Times and such.. Quyanna for your time.. Michael Adams Alias: Morgoth/Ghost Wheel nsmca@acad2.alaska.edu ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 150 ------------------------------