Date: Fri, 12 Feb 93 18:33:15 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #163 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Fri, 12 Feb 93 Volume 16 : Issue 163 Today's Topics: Deadline approaching: Workshop on AI and KBSs in Space Getting people into Space Program! hardware on the moon HST repair mission (2 msgs) Launching using Pegasus leading-edge anonymity (2 msgs) Mars flyby + asteroid rendezvous (was Re: Mir mission to Mars?) parachutes on Challenger? Ejection Seats! Precursors to SSF (3 msgs) Pyke's iceberg ship (was Re: Cooling re-entry vehicles.) The Future *is* What It Used To Be Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 14:00:30 GMT From: joachim fuchs wgs Subject: Deadline approaching: Workshop on AI and KBSs in Space Newsgroups: sci.space The deadline for abstract submission following workshop is approaching. To meet the deadline submissions can be sent as well to me, joachim@wgs.estec.esa.nl (Joachim Fuchs). However, the comments on Fax submission are as well valid for email submission. ======================================================================= 2nd Announcement and Call for Papers Artificial Intelligence and Knowledge Based Systems for Space - 4th Workshop - May 17th - 19th, 1993 ESTEC, Noordwijk, The Netherlands Organized by THE EUROPEAN SPACE AGENCY Simulation & Electrical Facilities Division Technical Directorate Purpose ------- The European Space Agency (ESA) has for many years pursued ac- tivities in Artificial Intelli- gence and Knowledge Based Systems for Space. The technology has already been successfully applied in several domains and is now widely considered a viable option in many developments. The objective of this workshop is to obtain an active exchange of information within the European AI community, within industry as well as within ESA. Not only increasing awareness of the new developments and technologies play an important role, but inputs obtained in this workshop will also serve ESA to harmonize and standardize the developments in Artificial Intelligence for Euro- pean Space programmes. Since the domain is still very evolutionary there are two main interests in organizing this workshop at the Space Research and Technology Centre of the European Space Agency (ESTEC). On one hand the applicability of proven and now almost "standard" methods and technologies of AI should be demonstrated through their use in operational or quasi-operational applications. There is as well the wish to standardize where suitable the development of Artificial Intelligence in order to increase the confidence even further. On the other hand, new methods and techniques should be proposed and their potential domain of application - particular for space - should be identified. In this context AI could as well stand as acronym for "Advanced Informatics". These are the main drivers for the fourth Workshop on Artificial Intelligence at ESTEC. Topics ------ The proposed issues reflect the main issues to be addressed in this Workshop. There is naturally a certain overlap between the different topics (eg the boundary between "established" and "ad- vanced" algorithms will always be fuzzy). The list of topics is not considered exhaustive. Authors are en- couraged to submit papers to topics they consider relevant, even if they are not mentioned below. Those will as well be reviewed. However, the submitted papers should be oriented towards real ap- plications. * Applications - AI in the different phases of the Spacecraft Life-Cycle and the Space Mission - Requirements Definition, Design, Assembly, Integration, Ve- rification and Qualification of S/Cs, Subsystems and Pay- loads - Mission Planning, Mission Preparation and Ground Support (Operations) - Crew Operations, On-board S/W - Data Gathering and Analysis - AI Techniques in the Development of Intelligent Tutoring Sys- tems for Ground and On-board Crew Training * Methodology - Knowledge Acquisition and Representation - Conceptual Models - Knowledge Based Systems Life-cycle (Development Methodology) - User Requirements Definition - Ergonomy of KBS - Validation and Verification of KBS (Reliability, Testabili- ty) * Advanced Algorithms - Machine Learning - Case Based Learning - Generalization through Explanation - Neural Nets - Prediction Methods (eg for Planning) - Constraint Logic Reasoning - Genetic Algorithms/Evolutionary Programming - Fuzzy Logic Round Tables ------------ Round Tables will provide a forum for a more active discussion amongst participants. For this reason presentations of ongoing work are welcome even if there are no final results available. The final definition of subjects and number of Round Tables will be a function of attendance and the nature of abstracts received. The proposed subjects reflect some of the strategic objectives in the Agency: * Autonomy - On-board Autonomy - Ground Support - Reactive/Predictive Planning - "Real Time", Temporal Reasoning * Knowledge Repository - KB-Management - Knowledge Integration and Knowledge Sharing - Query Languages - Visualization Tools and Methods - Operational Aspects, User's View * Model Based Reasoning - Diagnosis and Repair - (Re-) Configuration - Qualitative Reasoning Practical Information --------------------- Workshop participation is free of charge. Working languages will be English and French. However, authors are encouraged to use English as a "de facto" standard because there will no simultaneous translation be provided. Presentation time for the Workshop papers is 30 Minutes, includ- ing the time for possible discussions. Since the character of a Round Table is more oriented towards the active discussion of the participants, the time allocated for each paper will be more flexible, in average longer than for the Workshop (~45 minutes). The infrastructure provided for the presentations includes sup- port for viewgraphs, slides and video films (VHS, U Matic). A particular attention should be given to the fact that viewgraphs should not be copies of the submitted paper, but rather being edited for the purpose of presentation, eg finding more graphical representations of the relevant issues instead of text. There will be accommodation for poster sessions and S/W demons- trations. All demonstrations need to be shipped to ESTEC prior to the Workshop as standalone systems and installed by the demons- trators. Purpose of the demonstration and requirements (power and other connections, size) should be clearly identified and stated to ESTEC not later than March 22nd, 1993. They are subject to ap- proval by ESTEC. Demonstrations showing AI applications will get preference over commercial demonstrations. Papers for the Workshop and the Round Tables will be selected on the base of abstracts not exceeding one A4 page, which should reach ESTEC at latest on February 15th, 1993. The abstracts should include complete information about the author(s) (and af- filiation) and it should be stated under which heading the author would place his proposal. The abstract should be sent to: ESTEC Conference Bureau Postbus 299 NL-2200 AG Noordwijk The Netherlands Fax: +31-1719-85658 Tel: +31-1719-85005 Fax submissions are acceptable to meet the deadline, but authors are requested to send a paper copy to the address above since this will be used for the abstract book which will be available at the workshop. Full length papers (not exceeding 15 pages) should be provided to ESTEC at latest at the Workshop (format A4). Calendar of Events - 1st Announcement, Call for Papers December 14th, 1992 - Abstract submission deadline February 15th, 1993 - Notification of authors March 15th, 1993 - Final Programme March 22nd, 1993 - Registration Deadline April 16th, 1993 - Workshop May 17th - 19st, 1993 - Camera-ready papers at Workshop - Proceedings ready end of June Organizing Committee -------------------- U. Mortensen, ESA/ESTEC (Workshop Chairman) F. Allard, ESA/ESTEC E. Bornschlegl, ESA/ESTEC F.-J. Demond, ESA/EAC H. Laue, ESA/ESOC A. Moya, Commission of the European Communities (DG XIII) G. Muehlhauser, ESA/ESRIN S. Valera, ESA/ESTEC J. Fuchs, ESA/ESTEC (Workshop Organizer) ===== CUT HERE ===== CUT HERE ===== CUT HERE ===== CUT HERE ===== Response Card 1st Announcement and Call for Papers Artificial Intelligence and Knowledge Based Systems for Space - 4th Workshop - May 17th - 19th, 1993 ESTEC, Noordwijk, The Netherlands I intend to submit a paper: O YES O NO (Preliminary) Title _____________________________________________ Particular requirements (video, viewgraphs, slides...)___________ _________________________________________________________________ I intend to submit a poster: O YES O NO (Preliminary) Title _____________________________________________ Requirements (space...)__________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ I intend to make a S/W demonstration: O YES O NO Purpose _________________________________________________________ Requirements (Connections, space...)_____________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Name _________________________________ Affiliation _________________________________ Mailing address _________________________________ __________________________________________________ Telephone _________________________________ Fax _________________________________ Please mail or fax this form to the address listed above. Keywords: ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 16:51:07 GMT From: "Edward V. Wright" Subject: Getting people into Space Program! Newsgroups: sci.space In <1l6dq6INN7s0@phantom.gatech.edu> matthew@phantom.gatech.edu (Matthew DeLuca) writes: >Disney is a corporation and can do whatever they like; the space program >runs off of my tax dollars, and I'd much prefer to see useful astronauts >and payload sent up as opposed to Erma Hornswaggle from Dubuque, Iowa going >up and losing continence. So? How many "useful" astronauts has NASA launched today? How much useful payload has flown out of Kennedy Space Center, as compared to JFK or DFW or Atlanta Hartsfield? And why do you believe that something is not useful unless it's useful to the United State government (i.e., the only entity on Earth than can afford something as wasteful as the Space Shuttle)? >>As soon as there's another Shuttle >>crash (and there will be, denying that is just whistling in the dark), >>Congress is going shut down your little space program for good. >Baloney. Number one, Congress isn't *quite* that stupid, and number two, >NASA has quite a constituency. Do you have any evidence for you claim, >other than your wishful thining? Ah, yeah. I was paying attention the last time a Space Shuttle crashed. >>Go out to your local airport and count the number of jets >>taking off in one five-minute interval. Compare that number >>to NASA's five-flights-per-year, which you call a great >>accomplishment. >Get with the nineties, Ed...they're running eight to nine flights a year >now, three times as many as anyone else with ten times the people. Not >as good as it should be, but by far the best in the world. Three times as many? Phui! Call up American Airlines and get their flight schedule. ------------------------------ Date: 9 Feb 93 16:21:45 GMT From: fred j mccall 575-3539 Subject: hardware on the moon Newsgroups: sci.space In <1993Feb9.012857.2251@seq.uncwil.edu> bgoffe@seq.uncwil.edu (Bill Goffe) writes: >henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes in response to an earlier >question: >>The later lunar modules were deliberately crashed on the lunar surface >>for the benefit of the lunar-surface seismometer network. One or two >>of the early ones weren't; I forget whether they were just abandoned >>in lunar orbit (from which they almost certainly would have crashed >>by now) [further material deleted] >Why would they have crashed? With no atmosphere, wouldn't the orbit >have been stable? Further, I'd think any orbit would be close to the >moon, so it'd be relatively free of perturbations from the earth or sun. >Not a big point, just curious what I might be missing. Mascons. There tend not to be any long-term stable orbits around the moon due to mascons in the moon itself which tend to perturb orbits. -- "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. ------------------------------ Date: 9 Feb 93 15:58:59 GMT From: Doug Mohney Subject: HST repair mission Newsgroups: sci.space In article <75193@cup.portal.com>, BrianT@cup.portal.com (Brian Stuart Thorn) writes: > According to last week's "Space News", Endeavour on December 2 > will be launched with provisions enought to support up to > seven spacewalks for about thirteen days on orbit. The nominal > mission is for an eight day flight including three Hubble repair > EVAs of six hours each. The more realistic plan is for four > spacewalks to repair Hubble on a nine day flight. But Endeavour > can go thirteen days and has six spacewalks available to do > the job (the seventh is reserved for Shuttle emergencies). And some of you people think this could be done with a Soyuz. NOT. I have talked to Ehud, and lived. -- > SYSMGR@CADLAB.ENG.UMD.EDU < -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 17:50:10 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: HST repair mission Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1l8kc3INNr1@mojo.eng.umd.edu> sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu writes: >> According to last week's "Space News", Endeavour on December 2... >And some of you people think this could be done with a Soyuz. Hmmm... I can't think of anybody who thinks it can be done with only a Soyuz. I do however know of lots of people who think it can be done with any of the inexpensive space station ideas out there combined with one of the several OTV concepts also out there. Both could be developed and operated for a fraction of what Shuttle costs simply to operate. Not only is it a lot cheaper but returns several times the science as both Shuttle and Fred put together. More importantly, it is cost effective. We will likely spend more on Hubble repair then it would cost to simply build another and send it up on a ELV. Cheaper approaches will not only make it far easier to do (a station with a OTV could have scheduled the reapir long ago) but will actually make it cost effective. (I realize that you don't like cost effective solutions but they will make space more popular). Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "A great man is one who does nothing but leaves | | aws@iti.org | nothing undone" | +----------------------126 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 18:58:06 GMT From: Jonathan Hardwick Subject: Launching using Pegasus Newsgroups: sci.space fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes > claudio@nmsb.larc.nasa.gov (Claudio Egalon) writes: > >There are some talk in the Brazilian community that the Brazilian > >satellite, which is scheduled to be launched from a Pegasus rocket, > >does not have any insurance. I am wondering if any one here in the > >NET could coment on that whether it is true or not. It seems kind of > >dumb not insure this satellite since Pegasus was used only twice in > >the past and in the second mission did not work very well. > > It might be a very smart choice: Imagine how much an insurance company > might ask, to cover such a high-risk launch. The Brazilians would be > betting their savings in insurance costs against the risks of a failure. > It's a pretty high stakes gamble, but it still might be a smart move. Looks like their gamble paid off [excerpting from a clarinet article on grounds of reasonable use -- besides, this will probably bring them subscribers from sci.space :-)]: ] Subject: Pegasus rocket launches Brazilian environmental satellite ] ] CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (UPI) - An unusual winged rocket launched from ] an airborne B-52 jet carried a Brazilian environmental satellite into ] orbit Tuesday in the third flight of the commercially built booster. ] Soaring 43,500 feet above the Atlantic Ocean, B-52 pilot and former ] shuttle astronaut Gordon Fullerton released the 49-foot-long Pegasus ] rocket from beneath the right wing of the massive, eight-engine jet at ] 9:30 a.m. EST. The article seems to have been written right after launch, so no word yet on whether the satellite is ok. Tune in to tonight's news, I guess... Jonathan H. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 14:21:23 GMT From: Steve Gardner Subject: leading-edge anonymity Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.privacy Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 27 Source-Info: Sender is really news@CRABAPPLE.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU Source-Info: Sender is really isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU In article johne@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (John Eaton) writes: >Society as a whole fears anonymonity because society has no way to control >an anonymous individual. Crooks and school boys have long known that by >hidding who they are they will never be punished. "Society as a whole"? Who is this "society as a whole" fellow? ;-) When people speak of "society as a whole" they are in the vaste majority of cases talking about the institutions and the powerful individuals of the society. "Society as a whole" is an abstraction that defies definition. What you really mean is that the powerful intrenched interests in society fear anonymity. It is not merely crooks and school boys that benefit from anonymity. Rebels do too. But most importantly the agents of control in a society benefit from anonymity too. Certain elements of the FBI, CIA, NSA, and DEA are more anonymous than any crook or schoolboy could be but they are supported by the powerful and their anonymity is considered blameless by the spear carriers of the powerful. >But our superheros also hide their idenities. Look at Batman, The Lone Ranger >etc. They all operate without revealing their true names. They know that if >someone knows who you are then they can harm you. You forget a very crucial example Don Diego "El Zorro". This mythical character was anonymous because he was up against powerful intrenched interests. The Lone Ranger and Batman were goody-two-shoes characters whose exploits upheld the status quo. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 93 18:29:41 PST From: lord@tradent.wimsey.com Subject: leading-edge anonymity Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.privacy I really had to reply to some of the JUNK being posted here about anonymity. To say that anonymous stuff is automatically junk _IS_ prejudice, plain and simple. The reason people post anonymously is so that they don't have to put up with some of the CRAP I've seen around here. If you think this guy's just out to stir things up, why are you giving him what he wants? _HE_ never stirred things up. If you took a look around you, you'd see that, in fact, YOU have been the ones stirring things up! Jason Cooper ------------------------------ Date: 9 Feb 93 04:13:13 GMT From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey Subject: Mars flyby + asteroid rendezvous (was Re: Mir mission to Mars?) Newsgroups: sci.space In article , jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh Hopkins) writes: > ralph.buttigieg@f635.n713.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (Ralph Buttigieg) writes: >> Perhaps better yet would be to include an asteriod rendezvous as well >> as the Mars flyby. > I'm not aware of any asteroids one could rendezvous with on a Mars mission > without significant fuel expenditure. Josh, I woulda thought that you had learned from ISEE-3/ICE, Giotto II, and Galileo that there are a lot of asteroids out there. If you look hard enough and get clever enough, there may well be opportunities. (Upon reading your message I went looking for Mars Trojans in the *Boys' Big Book of Asteroids* but found nothing. Not surprising. But that doesn't mean there aren't rocks you can visit with low delta-V with a Mars flyby.) Granted, slowing down relative to the asteroid, and leaving for Earth again, will unavoidably cost a fair amount of propellant. But I bet there are tricky trajectories/opportunities that could minimize that. If you get to fly past Mars, you can use a gravity assist to crank your orbital inclination, speed, and direction through quite a range. The number of possible *flyby* target asteroids and comets would be vast. Rendezvous is much harder but I'm optimistic. If you're allowed to throw a Venus flyby on the same mission, and aerobraking on return to Earth, it gets really interesting. Example: I think Galileo used its first Earth flyby to tilt its orbital plane to meet Gaspra's 4-degree inclination, then cranked back on its second Earth flyby into a transjovian trajectory. I could be wrong about this. Adventuresome cosmonauts might play with aerobraking at Mars or Venus to give even further velocity changes! Of course, what Shakespeare | Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey ORIGINALLY wrote was "First thing | Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory we do, let's kill all the EDITORS."| Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET But for some reason it didn't | Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV survive past the first draft. | SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS -- David D. "Laserdave" Levine (davidl@ssd.intel.com) ------------------------------ Date: 9 Feb 93 16:12:36 GMT From: fred j mccall 575-3539 Subject: parachutes on Challenger? Ejection Seats! Newsgroups: sci.space In <1993Feb8.231624.1@acad3.alaska.edu> nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu writes: >In article <1993Feb8.220526.29886@olaf.wellesley.edu>, lhawkins@annie.wellesley.edu (R. Lee Hawkins) writes: >> In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >>>In article <1993Feb3.212616.23436@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes: >>>Actually, Martin-Baker thought they could build an ejection system for >>>the shuttle... and they are the world's most respected manufacturer of >>>ejection seats. The upper-deck crew would go first, followed by the >>>mid-deck crew, whose seats would follow rails up through the upper deck. >>>I don't think anyone has done a system quite like that before, but >>>"sequenced" ejection systems, in which seats fire in a preprogrammed >>>sequence to avoid collisions etc., are fairly common. >> >> Why not a full-ejection-module like on the F-111 or B-1? Seems like >> this would work at almost any speed, with a large enough rocket could >> easily clear the SRB blast, and would save everybody, and might even >> save some of the equipment in the crew compartment for use as spares or >> incorporation into the (now toasted) shuttle's replacement. I realize >> such a solution would have a hugh weight penalty, and by its nature >> isn't exactly retrofittable, but perhaps such a system would be useful >> on future vehichles. I can't imagine any other means that is even >> remotely survivable over much of the flight regime. I thought they'd ripped that out of the B-1 because it didn't work correctly? Too big a cabin to get down in one piece or something; tended to jelly the contents when it hit. >> >> Cheers, >> --Lee >> ________________________________________________________________________________ >> R. Lee Hawkins lhawkins@annie.wellesley.edu >> Department of Astronomy lhawkins@lucy.wellesley.edu >> Whitin Observatory >> Wellesley College Ph. 617-283-2708 >> Wellesley, MA 02181 FAX 617-283-3642 >> ________________________________________________________________________________ >Wow Astronauts have lost alot of clout over the year. If Mercury/Gemini/Apollo >ha dnot had some way to see and get down to earth safely they would ahve made >the designers create one.. (Window they did).. >Mayeb what is needed is to have astronauts to organize and bsically say, you >design the next shuttle with a ejection module or something, or we will not >flY!! And they would tell them, "Then you don't fly. If we can't lift sufficient cargo because of demands for equipment that still wouldn't add survivability to a lot of boost-phase accidents, then there's no point in sending you up at all." -- "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. ------------------------------ Date: 9 Feb 93 15:35:57 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: Precursors to SSF Newsgroups: sci.space In article steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson) writes: > >The degree to which the actual Intelsat rescue mission differed from the > >water tank simulations was alarming to the SSF program, ' > Well it's about bloody time! >Wow! Allen, you spent a lot of time explaining to everyone how >the Intelsat rescue was a criminal waste of time and money. Not quite. Many people said that Shuttle is useful for the repairing of satellites. I simply pointed out that this activity has never been and will never be cost competative as long as you use the Shuttle for repair. I have always agreed that practice EVA was a good thing. >Are you now accepting it was a reasonable way to learn about >surprises, or that the problems they found were "obvious"? If NASA had been running a regular program of EVA and then used Intelsat as simply one of a series of test projects then I would agree. However, NASA isn't running such a program (much to the peril of the space station). It therefore seems a little odd that EVA research is only regarded as important when there is a good photo-op. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "A great man is one who does nothing but leaves | | aws@iti.org | nothing undone" | +----------------------126 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 9 Feb 93 15:48:14 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: Precursors to SSF Newsgroups: sci.space In article Cohen@ssdgwy.mdc.com (Andy Cohen) writes: >> Too little too late. Freedom has got to be the shoddiest large scale >> engineering project every attempted. Almost no prototyping, zero >> integration testing. Only now are they asking themselves if it can >> even be built. >Wrong. That question has been asked daily since 1986. Then just why did you spend three years and billions of dollars on a design you KNEW couldn't be built? A lot of people out there believe that the Freedom project is welfare for aerospace workers and that nobody at NASA cares if a station is even built. This only makes it seem more likely that NASA doens't care. >Wrong again. The old truss design's death started around 3 or more years >ago during a WP-02 Engineering Review Board meeting. At this internal >review, those who were responsible for designing different types of truss >members told the chief engineer that no matter what they did, the members >were compromised when the loads were modeled. I'll never forget that day >and the look on the man's face. One reason Congress mandated redesign was that they didn't think it could be built. Your telling us that they where correct but that you where proceeding with the design anyway. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "A great man is one who does nothing but leaves | | aws@iti.org | nothing undone" | +----------------------126 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 9 Feb 1993 17:31:11 GMT From: Andy Cohen Subject: Precursors to SSF Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Feb9.154814.645@iti.org>, aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) wrote: > . > > One reason Congress mandated redesign was that they didn't think > it could be built. Your telling us that they where correct but that > you where proceeding with the design anyway. > What can I say? Life as a contractor sucks. If you want the work, you do what your customer tells you to. One comment that all agreed to since 1988 was that NASA should have said this is what we need and we'll pay exactly this much...then go away and let those who could do the job....DO IT!!! If they do it then they get the money.... That's how a lot of fighter programs worked.... That's not how Manned-space systems contracting works.....nope. ------------------------------ Date: 9 Feb 93 11:14:40 -0600 From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey Subject: Pyke's iceberg ship (was Re: Cooling re-entry vehicles.) Newsgroups: sci.space In article , mt90dac@brunel.ac.uk (Del Cotter) writes: > <75011@cup.portal.com> BrianT@cup.portal.com (Brian Stuart Thorn) writes: >> Armed Forces Network TV runs a little spot about "American Military >> Heritage", and they have a spot about Picrete (sp?) > Pykrete was named after its inventor Geoffrey Pyke, the British engineer who > invented it for proposed mid-Atlantic floating airbases during the Second > World War. All the essential facts have been posted in this thread, but if you want to read a bit more about Pykrete and this adventure, look at *Engineers' Dreams* by Willy Ley. It's a wonderful book, and though it isn't concerned with space, you will enjoy it if you are the sort of goofball who reads and posts to this group... There was also a recent article in *Air and Space* about Pyke's iceberg ship. Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey | "Enough marshmallows Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory | will kill you Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET | if properly placed." Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV | --John Alexander, leader of SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS | "disabling technologies" [*Aviation Week*, 7 Dec 1992, p. 50] | research, Los Alamos ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 14:25:18 GMT From: Timothy Kimball Subject: The Future *is* What It Used To Be Newsgroups: sci.space Bruce Watson (wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM) wrote: : : : From _Satellite!_, Bergaust and Beller, 1956: : : "One of the most remarkable aspects suggested by [Professor Hermann] Oberth : at that time was the _space mirror_ concept. A huge mirror in space would : reflect the Sun's radiation in focused beams, its utility aspects including : heating and illuminating cities. It could also be used to "boil" the water : of our oceans, which in turn would yield vapor and rain during drought : periods. Considered seriously by many scientis today [1956], the space : mirror was first suggested in 1923. : -- : Bruce Watson (wats@scicom.alphaCDC.COM) Bulletin 629-49 Item 6700 Extract 75,131 And now we _do_ have a great big mirror orbiting the earth. Although I don't think we'll be pointing it at the sun any time soon... :^) -- /* tdk -- Opinions are mine, not my employer's. */ ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 163 ------------------------------