Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 05:07:39 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #498 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Thu, 29 Apr 93 Volume 16 : Issue 498 Today's Topics: $1bil space race ideas/moon base on the cheap. Comet Launch Date Gamma Ray Bursters. WHere are they. HST Servicing Mission Scheduled for 11 Days I want that Billion (2 msgs) Level 5? Lindbergh and the moon (was:Why not give $1G) Space Calendar - 04/27/93 temperature of the dark sky (2 msgs) Two-Line Orbital Element Set: Space Shuttle Vandalizing the sky. (4 msgs) What counntries do space surveillance? Words from the Chairman of Boeing on SSTO type stuff Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Apr 93 11:30:50 From: David.Anderman@ofa123.fidonet.org Subject: $1bil space race ideas/moon base on the cheap. Newsgroups: sci.space Although the $1 billion scheme is a fantasy (it's an old canard in the space business called "trolling for billionaires"), there is a good chance that a much smaller program ($65 million) will pass the 103rd Congress. This is the Back to the Moon bill, put together by the people who passed the Launch Services Purchase Act. The bill would incent private companies to develop lunar orbiters, with vendors selected on the basis of competitive bidding. There is an aggregate cap on the bids of $65 million. Having a single rich individual paying billions for lunar missions is probably worse than having the government bankroll a $65 million program, as the Delta Clipper program has shown (DC-X was funded by SDIO at $59 million). We have a clear chance of making a lunar mission happen in this decade - as opposed to simply wishing for our dreams to come true. Please support the Back to the Moon bill. For more information, please send E-mail with your U.S. postal service address. --- Maximus 2.01wb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 20:10:06 GMT From: robert ostroff Subject: Comet Launch Date Newsgroups: sci.space Hello out there, If your familiar with the COMET program then this concerns you. COMET is scheduled to be launched from Wallops Island sometime in June. Does anyone know if an official launch date has been set? Thanks, Rob ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 93 12:14:43 From: Steinn Sigurdsson Subject: Gamma Ray Bursters. WHere are they. Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space In article <1993Apr27.132255.12653@tpl68k0.tplrd.tpl.oz.au> keithh@tplrd.tpl.oz.au (Keith Harwood) writes: In article <1rbl0eINNip4@gap.caltech.edu>, palmer@cco.caltech.edu (David M. Palmer) writes: > prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes: > > What evidence indicates that Gamma Ray bursters are very far away? > >Given the enormous power, i was just wondering, what if they are > >quantum black holes or something like that fairly close by? > >Why would they have to be at galactic ranges? . . . David gives good explaination of the deductions from the isotropic, 'edged' distribution, to whit, they are either part of the Universe or part of the Oort cloud. Why couldn't they be Earth centred, with the edge occuring at the edge of the gravisphere? I know there isn't any mechanism for them, but there isn't a mechanism for the others either. What on Earth is the "gravisphere"? Anyway, before it's decay the Pioneer Venus Orbiter had a gamma ray detector, as does Ulysses, they detect the brightest bursts that the Earth orbit detectors do, so the bursts are at least at Oort cloud distances. In principle four detectors spaced out by a few AU would see parallax if the bursts are of solar system origin. _The_ problem with Oort cloud sources is that absolutely no plausible mechanism has been proposed. It would have to involve new physics as far as I can tell. Closest to "conventional" Oort sources is a model of B-field pinching by comets, it's got too many holes in it to count, but at least it was a good try... * Steinn Sigurdsson Lick Observatory * * steinly@lick.ucsc.edu "standard disclaimer" * * The laws of gravity are very,very strict * * And you're just bending them for your own benefit - B.B. 1988* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 21:02:40 GMT From: "Luciana C. Messina" Subject: HST Servicing Mission Scheduled for 11 Days Newsgroups: sci.space Another factor against bringing the HST back to Earth is risk of contamination. Luciana C. Messina lcm@spl1.spl.loral.com ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 1993 22:12:54 GMT From: Doug Mohney Subject: I want that Billion Newsgroups: sci.space In article , henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >Only if he doesn't spend more than a billion dollars doing it, since the >prize is not going to be scaled up to match the level of effort. You can >spend a billion pretty quickly buying Titan launches. Fine. I'll buy from George. GEORGEEE!!!! That assumes I can't weasel out a cooperative venture of some sort (cut me a break on the launcher, I'll cut you in on the proceeds if it works). Only the government pays higher-than-list price. >What's more, if you buy Titans, the prize money is your entire return on >investment. If you develop a new launch system, it has other uses, and >the prize is just the icing on the cake. Unless you're Martin Marietta, since (as I recall) they bought out the GD line of aerospace products. If MM/GD does it as an in-house project, their costs would look much better than buying at "list price." Does anyone REALLY know the profit margins built in to the Titan? C'mon. Allen is telling us how cheap we can get improved this or that... >I doubt very much that a billion-dollar prize is going to show enough >return to justify the investment if you are constrained to use current >US launchers. Oh please. How much of a profit do you want? Pulling $100-150 million after all is said and done wouldn't be too shabby. Not to mention the other goodies I'll collect in: a) Movie & TV rights (say $100-150 million conservatively) b) Advertising ("Look Mommie, they're drinking Coke!") c) Intangibles (Name recognization, experience & data acculumated) >You're going to *have* to invest your front money in building a new launch >system rather than pissing it away on existing ones. Being there first is >of no importance if you go bankrupt doing it. If you want lean, fine. A $500 million prize would be more than adequate for a prize. Maybe Wales would be kind enough to define what a company would consider a decent profit. If you want R&D done, you'll have to write in R&D clauses. I suppose you could make it a SBIR set-aside :) Software engineering? That's like military intelligence, isn't it? -- > SYSMGR@CADLAB.ENG.UMD.EDU < -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 00:25:15 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: I want that Billion Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1rkb56INN9hs@mojo.eng.umd.edu> sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu writes: >>What's more, if you buy Titans, the prize money is your entire return on >>investment. If you develop a new launch system, it has other uses, and >>the prize is just the icing on the cake. > >Unless you're Martin Marietta, since (as I recall) they bought out the GD >line of aerospace products. I think you've got an off-by-one error in your memory. :-) MM bought the satellite-building side of GE. E, not D. MM and GD are still competitors. >If MM/GD does it as an in-house project, their costs would look much better >than buying at "list price." Better, yes, but we're not talking order of magnitude. (Especially if you want to use Titan IV, which belongs to the USAF, not MM.) >... C'mon. Allen is telling us how cheap we can get improved this >or that... Sure, you can get a heavylift launcher fairly cheap if you do it privately rather than as a gummint project. But we're still talking about something that will cost nine digits per launch, unless you can guarantee a large market to justify volume production. -- SVR4 resembles a high-speed collision | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology between SVR3 and SunOS. - Dick Dunn | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 93 23:48:10 GMT From: "Eugene N. Miya" Subject: Level 5? Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Apr23.124759.1@fnalf.fnal.gov> higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes: >Will someone tell an ignorant physicist where the term "Level 5" comes >from? > >But who is it that invents this standard, and how come >everyone but me seems to be familiar with it? The SEI. Software Engineering Institute, a DoD funded part of Carnegie Mellon University. You can read about part of it in Ed Yourdon's The Decline and Fall of the American Programmer (Yourdon Press). Just passing thru..... --eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 23:26:03 GMT From: "Phil G. Fraering" Subject: Lindbergh and the moon (was:Why not give $1G) Newsgroups: sci.space gnb@baby.bby.com.au (Gregory N. Bond) writes: >In article jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh Hopkins) writes: > [re: voyages of discovery...] > Could you give examples of privately funded ones? >If you believe 1492 (the film), Columbus had substantial private >funds. When Columbus asked the merchant why he put the money in, the >guy said (slightly paraphrased) , "There is Faith, Hope and Charity. >But greater than these is Banking." >-- Heck, some of his ships were loaners. One was owned by a Basque... (you know, one of those groups that probably crossed the Atlantic _before_ Columbus came along). >Gregory Bond Burdett Buckeridge & Young Ltd Melbourne Australia > Knox's 386 is slick. Fox in Sox, on Knox's Box > Knox's box is very quick. Plays lots of LSL. He's sick! >(Apologies to John "Iron Bar" Mackin.) -- Phil Fraering |"Seems like every day we find out all sorts of stuff. pgf@srl02.cacs.usl.edu|Like how the ancient Mayans had televison." Repo Man ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 1993 21:20 UT From: Ron Baalke Subject: Space Calendar - 04/27/93 Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,sci.space.shuttle,alt.sci.planetary The Space Calendar is updated monthly and the latest copy is available at ames.arc.nasa.gov in the /pub/SPACE/FAQ. Please send any updates or corrections to Ron Baalke (baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov). Note that launch dates are subject to change. The following person made contributions to this month's calendar: o Dennis Newkirk - Soyuz TM-18 Launch Date (Dec 1993). ========================= SPACE CALENDAR April 27, 1993 ========================= * indicates change from last month's calendar April 1993 * Apr 29 - Astra 1C Ariane Launch May 1993 May ?? - Advanced Photovoltaic Electronics Experiment (APEX) Pegasus Launch May ?? - Radcal Scout Launch May ?? - GPS/PMQ Delta II Launch * May ?? - Commercial Experiment Transporter (COMET) Conestoga Launch * May 01 - Astronomy Day * May 01-2 - Iapetus/Saturn Eclipse May 04 - Galileo Enters Asteroid Belt Again May 04 - Eta Aquarid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 21:00 UT, Solar Lon: 44.5 deg) * May 13 - Air Force Titan 4 Launch * May 18 - STS-57, Endeavour, European Retrievable Carrier (EURECA-1R) * May 20 - 15th Anniversary, Pioneer Venus Orbiter Launch May 21 - Partial Solar Eclipse, Visible from North America & Northern Europe May 25 - Magellan, Aerobraking Begins June 1993 Jun ?? - Temisat Meteor 2 Launch Jun ?? - UHF-2 Atlas Launch Jun ?? - NOAA-I Atlas Launch Jun ?? - First Test Flight of the Delta Clipper (DC-X), Unmanned Jun ?? - Hispasat 1B & Insat 2B Ariane Launch Jun 04 - Lunar Eclipse, Visible from North America Jun 14 - Sakigake, 2nd Earth Flyby (Japan) Jun 22 - 15th Anniversary of Charon Discovery (Pluto's Moon) by Christy Jun 30 - STS-51, Discovery, Advanced Communications Technology Satellite July 1993 Jul ?? - MSTI-II Scout Launch Jul ?? - Galaxy 4 Ariane Launch Jul 01 - Soyuz Launch (Soviet) Jul 08 - Soyuz Launch (Soviet) Jul 14 - Soyuz TM-16 Landing (Soviet) * Jul 20-21 - Iapetus/Saturn Eclipse Jul 21 - Soyuz TM-17 Landing (Soviet) Jul 28 - S. Delta Aquarid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 19:00 UT, Solar Longitude 125.8 degrees) Jul 29 - NASA's 35th Birthday August 1993 Aug ?? - ETS-VI (Engineering Test Satellite) H2 Launch (Japan) Aug ?? - GEOS-J Launch Aug ?? - Landsat 6 Launch Aug ?? - ORBCOM FDM Pegasus Launch * Aug 08 - 15th Anniversary, Pioneer Venus 2 Launch (Atmospheric Probes) Aug 09 - Mars Observer, 4th Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM-4) Aug 12 - N. Delta Aquarids Meteor Shower (Maximum: 07:00 UT, Solar Longitude 139.7 degrees) Aug 12 - Perseid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 15:00 UT, Solar Longitude 140.1 degrees) Aug 24 - Mars Observer, Mars Orbit Insertion (MOI) Aug 25 - STS-58, Columbia, Spacelab Life Sciences (SLS-2) Aug 28 - Galileo, Asteroid Ida Flyby September 1993 Sep ?? - SPOT-3 Ariane Launch Sep ?? - Tubsat Launch Sep ?? - Seastar Pegasus Launch October 1993 Oct ?? - Intelsat 7 F1 Ariane Launch Oct ?? - SLV-1 Pegasus Launch Oct ?? - Telstar 4 Atlas Launch Oct 01 - SeaWIFS Launch Oct 22 - Orionid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 00:00 UT, Solar Longitude 208.7 degrees) November 1993 Nov ?? - Solidaridad/MOP-3 Ariane Launch Nov 03 - 20th Anniversary, Mariner 10 Launch (Mercury & Venus Flyby Mission) Nov 03 - S. Taurid Meteor Shower Nov 04 - Galileo Exits Asteroid Belt Nov 06 - Mercury Transits Across the Sun, Visible from Asia, Australia, and the South Pacific * Nov 08 - Mars Observer, Mapping Orbit Established Nov 10 - STS-60, Discovery, SPACEHAB-2 Nov 13 - Partial Solar Eclipse, Visible from Southern Hemisphere Nov 15 - Wilhelm Herschel's 255th Birthday Nov 17 - Leonids Meteor Shower (Maximum: 13:00 UT, Solar Longitude 235.3 degrees) * Nov 22 - Mars Observer, Mapping Begins Nov 28-29 - Total Lunar Eclipse, Visible from North America & South America December 1993 Dec ?? - GOES-I Atlas Launch Dec ?? - NATO 4B Delta Launch Dec ?? - TOMS Pegasus Launch Dec ?? - DirectTv 1 & Thiacom 1 Ariane Launch Dec ?? - ISTP Wind Delta-2 Launch Dec ?? - STEP-2 Pegasus Launch * Dec ?? - Soyuz TM-18 Launch (Soviet) Dec 02 - STS-61, Endeavour, Hubble Space Telescope Repair Dec 04 - SPEKTR-R Launch (Soviet) * Dec 05 - 20th Anniversary, Pioneer 10 Jupiter Flyby Dec 08 - Mars Observer, Mars Equinox Dec 14 - Geminids Meteor Shower (Maximum: 00:00 UT, Solar Longitude 262.1 degrees) Dec 20 - Mars Observer, Solar Conjunction Begins Dec 23 - Ursids Meteor Shower (Maximum: 01:00 UT, Solar Longitude 271.3 degrees) January 1994 Jan 03 - Mars Observer, End of Solar Conjunction Jan 24 - Clementine Titan IIG Launch (Lunar Orbiter, Asteroid Flyby Mission) February 1994 Feb ?? - SFU Launch Feb ?? - GMS-5 Launch Feb 05 - 20th Anniversary, Mariner 10 Venus Flyby Feb 08 - STS-62, Columbia, U.S. Microgravity Payload (USMP-2) Feb 15 - Galileo's 430th Birthday Feb 21 - Clementine, Lunar Orbit Insertion Feb 25 - 25th Anniversary, Mariner 6 Launch (Mars Flyby Mission) March 1994 Mar ?? - TC-2C Launch Mar 05 - 15th Anniversary, Voyager 1 Jupiter flyby Mar 14 - Albert Einstein's 115th Birthday Mar 27 - 25th Anniversary, Mariner 7 Launch (Mars Flyby Mission) Mar 29 - 20th Anniversary, Mariner 10, 1st Mercury Flyby * Mar 31 - Galaxy 1R Delta 2 Launch April 1994 * Apr ?? - Equator S Scout Launch * Apr 04 - Mars Observer, Perihelion * Apr 14 - STS-59, Atlantis, SRL-1 ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | The aweto from New Zealand /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | is part caterpillar and |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | part vegetable. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 18:46:03 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: temperature of the dark sky Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space Does anyone have a reference (something I can look up, not just your own recollections -- I have a few of those myself) on the temperature of the (night) sky as seen from space? Note, I am *not* talking about the temperature of the Microwave Background Radiation. There are more things in the sky than just the MBR; what I'm after is total blackbody temperature -- what a thermal radiator would see, disregarding (or shielding against) the Sun and nearby large warm objects. My dim recollection is that the net effective temperature is substantially higher than that of the MBR, once you figure in things like stars and the zodiacal light, but I'd like numbers. -- SVR4 resembles a high-speed collision | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology between SVR3 and SunOS. - Dick Dunn | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 1993 21:13:29 GMT From: Kurt Hillig Subject: temperature of the dark sky Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >Does anyone have a reference (something I can look up, not just your own >recollections -- I have a few of those myself) on the temperature of the >(night) sky as seen from space? > >Note, I am *not* talking about the temperature of the Microwave Background >Radiation. There are more things in the sky than just the MBR; what I'm >after is total blackbody temperature -- what a thermal radiator would see, >disregarding (or shielding against) the Sun and nearby large warm objects. >My dim recollection is that the net effective temperature is substantially >higher than that of the MBR, once you figure in things like stars and the >zodiacal light, but I'd like numbers. >-- >SVR4 resembles a high-speed collision | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology >between SVR3 and SunOS. - Dick Dunn | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry It's not quite what you were asking, but a few years ago I helped some EE remote sensing people run some experiments on the microwave emmissivity of ice; they used the sky for a background calibration source. They said that from Earth's surface the sky looks like a 60K blackbody. -- Dr. Kurt Hillig Dept. of Chemistry I always tell the phone (313)747-2867 University of Michigan absolute truth X.500 khillig@umich.edu Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1055 as I see it. hillig@chem.lsa.umich.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 22:48:58 GMT From: TS Kelso Subject: Two-Line Orbital Element Set: Space Shuttle Newsgroups: sci.space The most current orbital elements from the NORAD two-line element sets are carried on the Celestial BBS, (513) 427-0674, and are updated daily (when possible). Documentation and tracking software are also available on this system. As a service to the satellite user community, the most current elements for the current shuttle mission are provided below. The Celestial BBS may be accessed 24 hours/day at 300, 1200, 2400, 4800, or 9600 bps using 8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity. Element sets (also updated daily), shuttle elements, and some documentation and software are also available via anonymous ftp from archive.afit.af.mil (129.92.1.66) in the directory pub/space. STS 55 1 22640U 93 27 A 93117.24999999 .00043819 00000-0 13174-3 0 47 2 22640 28.4694 264.3224 0004988 261.3916 194.3250 15.90699957 104 -- Dr TS Kelso Assistant Professor of Space Operations tkelso@afit.af.mil Air Force Institute of Technology ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 17:49:52 GMT From: Doug Loss Subject: Vandalizing the sky. Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space I didn't want to quote all the stuff that's been said recently, I just wanted to add a point. The whole question of "a right to a dark sky" revolves around the definition of a right. Moral rights and natural rights are all well and good, but as far as I can see, a right is whatever you or someone representing you can enforce. In most civilizations, the government or the church (or both) defines what the rights of the citizens are, and then enforces those rights for them. Here in the U.S., the constitution provides a "Bill of Rights" from which most if not all legal rights are considered to derive. I'm sure that most other countries have comparable documents. If you can persuade a court that you have a right to a dark sky derived in some manner from the Bill of Rights (in the U.S.), you can prevent (maybe) these billboards from being launched. To keep anyone in the world from launching then gets into international law and the International Court of Justice (correct name?) in the Hague, something I know little about. Doug Loss loss@husky.bloomu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 18:57:21 GMT From: Thomas Clarke Subject: Vandalizing the sky. Newsgroups: sci.space Come on, this is sci.space. An orbital billboard won't do any permanent damage; in a few years it will reenter and probably hit Los Angles anyway :-) The boost to space commerce orbital advertising might provide might speed the day it is possible for those with a yen for dark skies to get some really dark skies beyond the dust producing the zodiacal light. Now, if they wanted to paint the CocaCola symbol on the moon in lampblack, that would give me pause. It would be very difficult to reverse such a widespread application of pigments. -- Thomas Clarke Institute for Simulation and Training, University of Central FL 12424 Research Parkway, Suite 300, Orlando, FL 32826 (407)658-5030, FAX: (407)658-5059, clarke@acme.ucf.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 21:01:49 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: Vandalizing the sky. Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Apr27.185721.15511@cs.ucf.edu> clarke@acme.ucf.edu (Thomas Clarke) writes: >Now, if they wanted to paint the CocaCola symbol on the >moon in lampblack, that would give me pause... Wouldn't bother me. I'd laugh. It wouldn't work -- the surface of the Moon is *already* pretty dark, and the contrast would be so poor you couldn't possibly see it. The only reason the Moon looks bright is that it's in bright sunlight against an otherwise-dark sky. Evidently Heinlein didn't know that... -- SVR4 resembles a high-speed collision | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology between SVR3 and SunOS. - Dick Dunn | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 22:46:22 GMT From: hathaway@stsci.edu Subject: Vandalizing the sky. Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space In article , loss@fs7.ECE.CMU.EDU (Doug Loss) writes: > I didn't want to quote all the stuff that's been said recently, I > just wanted to add a point. > .. > then enforces those rights for them. Here in the U.S., the constitution > provides a "Bill of Rights" from which most if not all legal rights are > considered to derive. I'm sure that most other countries have These seem hardly like the groups to discuss this in, but HUH??? All legitimate power to enforce these rights derives from the consent of the governed, not from no steenkin' piece of paper. Civilized gov'mnt is not an autonomous computer program, it's interactive. The Constitution was made by the people and can be trashed by us - it ain't no sacred scripture from which rights flow. Our 'rights' come from our souls. And I sure didn't see any request to vote on trashing the sky. Again - my opinion only - we keep our rights by using them, not going to some court. > comparable documents. If you can persuade a court that you have a right > to a dark sky derived in some manner from the Bill of Rights (in the > U.S.), you can prevent (maybe) these billboards from being launched. To > keep anyone in the world from launching then gets into international law > and the International Court of Justice (correct name?) in the Hague, > something I know little about. > > Doug Loss > loss@husky.bloomu.edu Most gracious regards, WHH ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 16:32:38 GMT From: Marvin Batty Subject: What counntries do space surveillance? Newsgroups: sci.space The European Space Agency has involvement with remote earth observation, and I presume this includes surveillance (optical etc.). So it's not just the US/USSR(ex) who are in the game. But what *is* the game? What can be done with space observation? The military functions of missile spotting, troop spotting etc. are well documented, but what about anything else? The biggest eg I can think of is to get a metal sensing sat over a paying country and scan their territory for precious metals. More importantly, if radar can spot water vapour (clouds), presumably a radar based sat will be capable of spotting rivers,open water and *underground water* from space. This would be a positive life saver for African or other drought affected countries. Implementing a clean water and irrigation program would be of imense benifit to such countries and should cut down mortalities considerably. So how about it? Is there a charity or government agency that would pay for a third world country to have their minerals and water deposits mapped? Or is this still sci-fi? Mail replies would be great. Thought for the day: Thermal energy needs water to make steam so sstick it in the ocean! -- **************************************************************************** Marvin Batty - djf@uk.ac.cov.cck "And they shall not find those things, with a sort of rafia like base, that their fathers put there just the night before. At about 8 O'clock!" ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 93 20:48:50 GMT From: games@max.u.washington.edu Subject: Words from the Chairman of Boeing on SSTO type stuff Newsgroups: sci.space Yesterday, I went to the Boeing shareholders meeting. It was a bit shorter than I expected. Last year (when the stock was first down), they made a big presentation on the 777, and other programs. This year, it was much more bare-bones. In any case, I wanted to ask a question that the board of directors would hear, and so I got there early, and figured that If I didn't get to the mike, maybe they would read mine off of a card, and so I wrote it down, and handed it in. After the meeting started, Mr. Shrontz said that he would only answer written questions, in order to be fair to the people in the overflow room that only had monitors downstairs. Naturally, I was crushed. So, when question and answer time came, I was suprised to find my question being read and answered. Admittedly near the end of the ones that he took. Presumably getting there early, and getting the question in early made all the difference. So, on to the substance. The question was Is Boeing looking at anything BEYOND the high speed Civil Transport, such as a commercial space launch system, and if not, how will Boeing compete with the reusable single stage to orbit technology presently being developed by Mcdonnell Douglass? Well, he read it without a hitch, and without editing, with impressed me, then he answered it very quickly treating it as a two part question, last part first. This is to the best of my recollection what he said. As far as single stage to orbit technology, we think that we have a better answer in a two stage approach, and we are talking to some of our customers about that. As far as commercialization, that is a long ways off. The High speed Civil Transport is about as far out as our commercial planning goes at this point. So, this tells me that Boeing still considers space to be a non-commercial arena, and for the most part this is true, however it also tells me that they consider there to be enough money in building space launchers for them to persue work on their own. Now, I do have a friend on the spacelifter program at boeing. Actually, this is a mis-nomer, as there is no spacelifter contract for the work that this guy is doing, however, he is doing work in preparation of a proposal for space lifter contracts. He won't tell me what he is doing, but maybe this is where the TSTO action is taking place at boeing. At the very minimum, the chairman of the board of boeing said that they have an approach in mind, and they are trying to do something with it. Anybody know anything further? Is this really news? Does this threaten further work on DC-? ? John. ------------------------------ From: Mark Littlefield Newsgroups: sci.space Subject: Re: What counntries do space surveillance? Message-Id: <1993Apr27.172745.28123@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> Sender: USENET News Client Reply-To: mll@aio.jsc.nasa.gov Organization: Lockheed ESC/NASA JSC References: <15657.2bd7de55@cpva.saic.com> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 17:27:45 GMT Lines: 32 Source-Info: Sender is really news@CRABAPPLE.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU Source-Info: Sender is really isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU In article <15657.2bd7de55@cpva.saic.com>, thomsonal@cpva.saic.com writes: [ stuff deleted ] |> |> |> This leads to the more general question: do yet other people than |> the US, Russia, and Japan do space surveillance, and if so, how and |> why? |> |> Allen Thomson SAIC McLean, VA, USA The French SPOT is an example that comes to mind. Although the company (name escapes me at the moment) sells images world-wide, you can bet your last dollar (franc??) that the French gov't gets first dibs. I remember a few years ago (about the time SPOT was launched), I was speaking to my Dad (an USAF officer) about this and that, and I happend to mention SPOT (I think we were talking about technology utilization). He just about went ballistic. He wanted to know how I knew about SPOT and just what I knew. I guess that space surveillance is such a sensitive topic in the Air Force that he couldn't believe that I would read about such a system in the popular press (ie. AV week). mark, -- ===================================================================== Mark L. Littlefield Intelligent Systems Department internet: mll@aio.jsc.nasa.gov USsnail: Lockheed Engineering and Sciences 2400 Nasa Rd 1 / MC C-19 Houston, TX 77058-3711 ==================================================================== ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 498 ------------------------------