Date: Sat, 8 May 93 05:27:36 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #547 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Sat, 8 May 93 Volume 16 : Issue 547 Today's Topics: Boeing TSTO (Was: Words from Chairman of Boeing) Boom! Whoosh...... Electronic Journal of the ASA (EJASA) - May 1993 [Part 2] FYI: Archive of preprints in astrophysics etc.. Magellan Update - 05/07/93 Philosophy Quest. How Boldly? (2 msgs) SLS: Atmospheric Regeneration Solar Power Satellites (2 msgs) Space Manuevering Tug (was HST servicing mission_) (2 msgs) Visas for astronauts after an abort Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 7 May 1993 20:33:41 -0400 From: Pat Subject: Boeing TSTO (Was: Words from Chairman of Boeing) Newsgroups: sci.space In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >But my point was that it's not necessary to assume the worst about their >motives. They are not trying to build the simplest launcher they can; I wasn't assuming anything about boeing's motives. I was just pointing out that given their base markets, and knowledge of the horizontal transportation market, it may amke sense for them to leverage any of their investments to maximize it's future returns. Good business really. so why is the paperwork so much harder on rockets? who issues it? DOT/office of comemrcial space transport? or FAA. i doubt FAA has jurisdiction. pat ------------------------------ Date: 7 May 1993 19:58:27 -0400 From: Pat Subject: Boom! Whoosh...... Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993May7.165618.3165@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) writes: |In the fall of 1990 there was a hot air balloon show here for a few days, |and although most of the balloons were conventional, we also saw one in the |shape of a giant Nike (?) sneaker and another one in the shape of a huge |flying Ray-O-Vac battery. THere are some amazing hot air balloon shapes. There was some Bad science Fiction movie, about the earth being scorched by high speed winds ( really neat airplanes were shown, navigating the winds) and an android on the run from what's left of the government. at the end, the winds lift and all these balloons take off. all amazing shapes and sizes. sorry i can't remember the movie title, but memory is always the second thing to go. pat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 22:09:18 GMT From: Larry Klaes Subject: Electronic Journal of the ASA (EJASA) - May 1993 [Part 2] Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,sci.misc,sci.energy,sci.environment,talk.environment,alt.sci.planetary in Phoenix, Arizona. The Tucson Amateur Astronomy Association (TAAA), in conjunction with the National Park Service, announces the third annual Grand Canyon Star Party, to be held June 12-19, 1993. It is the perfect spot for such an event: Spectacular scenery by day and wonderfully dark skies by night. Geared towards showing the sky to the visiting novice - many of whom have never seriously viewed a clear, dark sky before - the excitement, joy and gratitude expressed by the mostly international crowd is very satisfying. And when the hour grows late and the crowds thin, you are left to explore the limits of your telescope in some of the darkest skies over the United States. We guarantee you will make lots of friends and retain a multitude of pleasant memories with which to return home. Location and Ground Rules - We will be setting up on the South Rim in a clearing near the Yavapai Museum. The observing area, though near the Yavapai parking lot, will be behind a locked gate during the day and you will be allowed to leave your telescopes set up during your stay. We are also looking for volunteers to give twilight talks to entertain visitors between sunset and when viewing starts. Please indicate if you would like to do this. Although we are not charging for registration, to monitor attendance and provide proper paperwork if you are bringing a telescope, we are requiring a cursory registration with the approximate dates of your stay and where you will be staying while at the canyon. Where to Stay - Housing is critical at this time of the year. There are no special arrangements available for Star Party attendees, except for a few provided campsites, which we began taking names on March 1. They will go fast! Rooms, Recreational Vehicles, and Trailers: If you want a room near the South Rim, make your plans and reservations now! It is never too early to book a room in the summer at the Grand Canyon. If there are none available, you might make alternate plans (i.e., campground reservations) and try to pick up a cancellation when you get there. All lodging and motels release no-shows' rooms at about 4 p.m.. Since many tour groups overbook, there may be rooms available. For reservations at any of the motels or lodges at the South Rim or for Trailer Village (Camping trailers or RVs) call Fred Harvey Inc. at (602) 638-2401 AS SOON AS YOU MAKE YOUR PLANS! Expect long telephone waits while making your reservations. If you can tolerate an 11.2-kilometer (seven-mile) drive, you can also try the following motels at Tusayan (all are in area code 602): Squire Inn 638-3515 Moqui Lodge 638-2424 Quality Inn 638-2673 Red Feather Inn 638-2414 7 Mile Lodge 638-2291 Camping: To make reservations for campsites at the regular rates ($10 per night), call MISTIX at 1-800-365-2267, no more than eight weeks ahead. Procedure - If you plan to bring a telescope, please register by sending a long self-addressed stamped envelope to TAAA-Grand Canyon, 1122 E. Greenlee Pl., Tucson, AZ, 85719, U.S.A.. For questions, please call (602) 293-2855 between 8 and 10 p.m. Mountain Standard Time (MST). Internet E-mail to ketelsen@as.arizona.edu. Come for one night or for all eight, but be prepared for a lack of sleep, with the Canyon calling for you by day and the wonderful skies by night! THE ELECTRONIC JOURNAL OF THE ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY OF THE ATLANTIC May 1993 - Vol. 4, No. 10 Copyright (c) 1993 - ASA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 May 93 00:17:22 BST From: Ata Etemadi Subject: FYI: Archive of preprints in astrophysics etc.. Newsgroups: sci.physics,sci.space G'Day Thought this may be of interest. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This service offered by: SISSA / ISAS Scuola Internazionale Superiore di Studi Avanzati International School for Advanced Studies a post graduate school in physics and maths located in Via Beirut 2-4 - 34014 TRIESTE - Italy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ARCHIVE of PREPRINTS (rel.2.3 - Oct.1992) (Please redistribute this message to your friends and colleagues.) The Internet node BABBAGE.SISSA.IT maintains a fully automated archive of preprints concerning: - astrophysics - condensed matter - functional analysis - general relativity / quantum cosmology - high energy physics phenomenological - high energy physics formal - nuclear physics theory - e-mail addresses You may send commands to the lists to - get informations such as abstracts, preprints, etc. - subscribe to a list to receive title, author(s) and abstract of new papers without asking them everytime - send a paper to a list, so people interested may get and read your paper. When you send a command to the list you will automatically receive the answer by the operating system (and not by a human operator...). Below you will find commands description. FOR A MORE COMPLETE HELP USE THE COMMAND: get bighelp.txt or get bighelp.tex (see later) You may use MAIL or FTP utilities to use the archive. Using FTP you may only get abstracts or papers, while using MAIL you may send some command to subscribe to the list and send your papers other than ask abstracts and papers. USING MAIL You may send commands by mail to the system to - get help about commands - subscribe/unsubscribe to a distribution list - get/put/replace a paper into the list - get a list of papers - search a title/author The mail must be sent to one of the following address, depending on which sector you are interested in: astro-ph@babbage.sissa.it (astrophysics) cond-mat@babbage.sissa.it (condensed matter) funct-an@babbage.sissa.it (functional analysis) gr-qc@babbage.sissa.it (general relativity / quantum cosmology) hep-ph@babbage.sissa.it (high energy physics phenomenological) hep-th@babbage.sissa.it (high energy physics formal) nucl-th@babbage.sissa.it (nuclear physics theory) e-mail@babbage.sissa.it (e-mail address database) Some other bulletin board running the same software (this means that you may send mails to this addresses too) are: alg-geom@publications.math.duke.edu (algebraic geometry) hep-lat@ftp.scri.fsu.edu (computational and lattice physics) WARNING: - Commands should always be sent to one of the previous addresses, WITH THE COMMAND IN THE SUBJECT FIELD (e.g. Subject: help). - The body of the mail message is irrelevant except when submitting papers or comments (see later). - Only one-line command at a time is accepted (the subject line of a mail is one and only one!); so send one mail for each command. - You will receive the answer to your commands by the operating system and not by a human operator... so don't send any word that is not a command in the subject field, and don't try to reply to your return mail! As command result you will receive a mail from the bulletin board to which you sent your mail. The return mail has the username ``no-reply'' to avoid problems due to occasional mail that bounces back. A WARNING ABOUT OUR ARCHIVES The archives concerning high energy physics theory (hep-th@babbage.sissa.it) general relativity and quantum cosmology (gr-qc@babbage.sissa.it) particle phenomenology (hep-ph@babbage.sissa.it) are a mirror (that we keep consistent) of the master archives at LANL. Their main purpose is to allow a better service to european users when the transcontinental link is down. Note that all users' requests that require a change of the preprints database are sent directly to the master archive. So commands such `help', `list', etc. are satisfied at our european site, while commands such `put', `add', `cross' are sent to the master archive. Our archives are updated within 24 hours, so if you submit a preprint to one of these three archives, the `get' of such preprint will be possible only after 24 hours. Moreover the `subscribe all' command is not implemented at this site for these three archives. COMMANDS DESCRIPTION Below you find the commands to put in the subject line of the mail, and their effects. All the answers are returned to you by mail. COMMAND MEANING ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- help returns an help file (Warning: the result of HELP command will be the SAME for all the previous physics sectors!). listing returns a list of year and months currently available. Papers are listed by years and months and then numbered in the order they arrive; so e.g. 9101003 indicates the paper number 003 of 91/01. list e.g. `list 9109'. Returns title and authors of papers currently held for the given year and month. list .abs Returns title, author and abstracts of papers held for the given year and month. You may specify more than one month on the same line; e.g.: `list 9109.abs 9110.abs' list macros returns available tex macros needed to tex papers (papers are usually written in tex.) list new returns the titles and abstracts listing of the most recently received papers (typically from previous day). find search title and author list for `xyz' (`xyz' may be either the author or a word in title; the search is case insensitive) Returns the paper number. e.g.: `find goldstone' find defaults to past 12 months; for earlier use: `find goldstone 91' get bighelp.txt to get this file (a preprints primer). (Warning: the result of GET BIGHELP command will be the SAME for all the previous addresses!). get bighelp.tex to get the same file as in the `get bighelp.txt' command, but in tex format. get Returns (via mail) the paper specified by paper-number. e.g.: `get 9109001' returns you a mail containing the paper number 001 of 91/09. - If you want only the abstract of the paper, append `.abs' to the paper-number; e.g.: `get 9109001.abs'. - If you don't specify the year and month, get defaults to the current year and month, so that, e.g., during 10/91 the commands `get 1' or `get 01' will automatically prepend the string `9110' and the necessary zeroes, to result `get 9110001'. - If specified, months or numbers too large for current year have previous month and number prepended. - get command also defaults to current year, e.g. `get 9005' during 1991 gives `get 9109005'; WARNING: Do not make multiple requests for the same paper. If you receive nothing (or if the response is slow) it means that there is a problem at your end. get returns the tex macro specified by . distribution returns the full list of e-mail addresses (on distribution list) of all people that subscribed to the list subscribe where is really your full name, and not your e-mail address. E.g. `subscribe Peter O'Toole` This command subscribe your username to the daily distribution list. The subscribers will automatically receive a listing of new titles and abstracts of papers. You must send your full name with any number of words and initials, as you wish it to appear on the distribution list. Your e-mail address will be automatically extracted from your mail. subscribe all You will automatically receive the FULL TEXT of all papers... Warning: do you have so much space to receive all these papers? cancel remove your username from the daily distribution list: you will no more receive automatically titles and abstracts of new papers. cancel all return to receipt new authors, titles, abstracts and papers. comment to send a mail message to the list administrator. In this case write your message in the body of the mail. This is the only case in which the mail arrive at a human operator and not to the automated system. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ All commands to cond-mat@babbage may be abbreviated by any truncation that includes at least the first three letters (e.g. rep, sub, can, dis, lis, com, ...). To reiterate: THE COMMAND SHOULD BE IN THE SUBJECT LINE, the body of the message is irrelevant. Remember that you may submit only one-line command (on the subject line of the mail), but you are allowed to send multiple requests in one-line as follows: `list 9109 9110.abs macros new' or `get 1 08005 2 55 harvmac.tex 9109058 2.abs'. One of the first messages you will want to send after subscribing to one of our lists is To: xxx-yy@babbage.sissa.it Subject: get tex.advice The file "tex.advice" contains helpful advice about TeX, and is recommended reading for all users (both readers and authors) of this archive. 2) USING ANONYMOUS FTP ANONYMOUS FTP for getting files is enabled on BABBAGE.SISSA.IT. This is primarily useful for nodes whose internet routing is configured to delay mail. ANONYMOUS FTP for putting files will be enabled at a later date. Use: login at BABBAGE.SISSA.IT via FTP with the username `anonymous' and your-complete-username as password, as follows: ------------------------------------------------- $ ftp babbage.sissa.it Connected to babbage.sissa.it. 220 babbage FTP server (Version .............) ready. Name (babbage.sissa.it:.....): anonymous Password: your-complete-username 230 Guest login ok, access restrictions apply. ftp> ------------------------------------------------- The relevant directories are: ``listings'' that contains the abstracts and ``papers'' that contains the papers. The latter one has subdirectories such as 9108, 9109, etc. -- | Mail Dr Ata Etemadi, Blackett Laboratory, | | Space and Atmospheric Physics Group, | | Imperial College of Science, Technology, and Medicine, | | Prince Consort Road, London SW7 2BZ, ENGLAND | | Internet/Arpanet/Earn/Bitnet atae@spva.ph.ic.ac.uk or ata@c.mssl.ucl.ac.uk | | Span SPVA::atae or MSSLC:atae | | UUCP/Usenet atae%spva.ph.ic@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk | ------------------------------ Date: 7 May 1993 22:44 UT From: Ron Baalke Subject: Magellan Update - 05/07/93 Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary Forwarded from Doug Griffith, Magellan Project Manager MAGELLAN STATUS REPORT May 7, 1993 1. The Magellan spacecraft continues to operate normally, gathering gravity data to plot the density variations of Venus in the mid-latitudes. 2. The final command sequence of Cycle 4 was uplinked and went active Friday morning. Battery reconditioning was also started on Friday morning. 3. Tuesday, May 4th, marked the fourth anniversary of the Magellan launch. 4. An Operations Readiness Review for the Transition Experiment will be held on Thursday, May 13th, to assess preparations for aerobraking. 5. On Friday, May 14th, Magellan will pass the nominal end of Cycle 4. The cycle was extended by 10 days to re-acquire gravity data which was affected by passage of the radio signal through the atmosphere of Venus early in the cycle. ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | Once a year, go someplace /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | you've never been before. |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 16:19:49 GMT From: aezpete@deja-vu.aiss.uiuc.edu Subject: Philosophy Quest. How Boldly? Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Apr29.162132.28366@hemlock.cray.com> bobo@thejester.cray.com (Bob Kierski) writes: > > >There are a number of Philosophical questions that I would like to ask: > >1) If we encounter a life form during our space exploration, how do we >determine if we should capture it, imprison it, and then discect it? > >2) If we encounter a civilization that is suffering economicly, will >we expend resources from earth to help them? > >3) With all of the deseases we currently have that are deadly and undetectable, >what will be done to ensure that more new deadly deseases aren't brought >back, or that our deseases don't destroy life elsewhere? > It may be very likely that any alien civilisation we may encounter would be so radically different and removed from ours that notions like economics, government, religion, and other concepts that we tend to regard as universal attributes of civilisation may be meaningless to them. Remember, they have evolved in a very different environment on a completely different planet. Even physically, they may be so different from us that diseases may not be a problem. On the other hand, we may be "toxic" to eachother in ways that cannot be explained by the disease model. Of course, this is all speculation. If and when the day arrives that alien civilisations are discovered or physically encountered, all of our previous notions of what life and civilisation is like on other planets will surely suddenly seem so quaint. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Peter Schlumpf Analyst/Programmer, Library Systems University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: 7 May 1993 20:29:06 -0400 From: Pat Subject: Philosophy Quest. How Boldly? Newsgroups: sci.space The smithsonian exhibition here did a special called "Seeds of Change" on the 500th columbian exhibition. it showed how the moevement of the potato, the tomato altered european history forever. the movement of disease also broke the central american nations. mostly smallpox and TB. the syphillis story is still debated. Also, those who popularize the american plains indians especially the horse cultures of the southwest, forget, that horses were a spanish import. the Amerinds would have spent 200 years more on foot without the spanish presence. p pat ------------------------------ Date: 7 May 1993 17:00:18 -0700 From: Ken Hayashida Subject: SLS: Atmospheric Regeneration Newsgroups: sci.space In a former post Tim Stroup writes: >The following is a list of types of technologies that >could be involved in any atmosphere regeneration. Each one has many different >technologies that could fulfill it's function. Maybe we can use this as a >starting point. >Carbon Dioxide Removal >Oxygen Supply >Carbon Dioxide Reduction and Oxygen Supply >Humidity Control >Temperature Control >Atmospheric Pressure Control >Trace Contaminant Control >I also suggest that we change the name of the subject line to Atmospheric >Regeneration. _____________________________________________________ So, my response: OK Tim, here's the new thread "''SLS:Atmospheric Regeneration" I'm interested in all aspects of this technology because of its implications in the intensive care unit. It would be nice if I could learn about how NASA monitors air supply in a space vehicle or suit, and see if that information has been applied to our Medical ICU. Anyhow, let's pose some questions to the network. 1. What systems do NASA and the Russian space agency use to monitor the amount of carbon dioxide and oxygen which is present in a space vehicle or EVA suit? In addition, how does NASA monitor the amount of liquid oxygen or hydrogen in the ET during pre-launch activity? 2. Let's hear about those Personal Egress Air Packs used on the orbiter and those EVA suits used on the moon or during EVA's. How do the astro's know how much oxygen is in the tank? 3. Anyone familiar with the regenerable air systems used in underwater activity (i.e. like the SEALS during undercover operations)? Let's hear about that too. Ken Hayashida USC School of Medicine khayash@hsc.usc.edu "Space Station...anytime now...I'm not gettin any younger...8-)" "Space Shuttle...we got it...let's use it...8-)" "DC-X...hey Spenc...whats the latest?" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 18:31:06 -0800 From: max@rand.org (Max Nelson) Subject: Solar Power Satellites I was wondering if anyone had any information on solar power satellites. Specifically: 1) Are there any Internet/Usenet documents/archives? 2) Does anyone have any information on the Japanese program? 3) General info on the area in general (who's who, what's what, etc...) Thanks in advance, =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Max Nelson | "Great Spirits have always Doctoral Fellow, | encountered violent opposition RAND Corporation | from mediocre minds." 1700 Main Street | - Albert Einstein PO Box 2138, MS 1E | Santa Monica, CA | "I drank what?" 90407-2138 | - Socrates p) (310) 393-0411 ext.7191 | f) (310) 822-7353 | "Back off man....Don't make me use this!" Internet: max@rand.org | - Ren Hoek =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ =+ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 18:31:38 -0800 From: max@rand.org (Max Nelson) Subject: Solar Power Satellites I was wondering if anyone had any information on solar power satellites. Specifically: 1) Are there any Internet/Usenet documents/archives? 2) Does anyone have any information on the Japanese program? 3) General info on the area in general (who's who, what's what, etc...) Thanks in advance, =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Max Nelson | "Great Spirits have always Doctoral Fellow, | encountered violent opposition RAND Corporation | from mediocre minds." 1700 Main Street | - Albert Einstein PO Box 2138, MS 1E | Santa Monica, CA | "I drank what?" 90407-2138 | - Socrates p) (310) 393-0411 ext.7191 | f) (310) 822-7353 | "Back off man....Don't make me use this!" Internet: max@rand.org | - Ren Hoek =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ =+ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 93 23:55:14 GMT From: Jonathan Thornburg Subject: Space Manuevering Tug (was HST servicing mission_) Newsgroups: sci.space This thread has been discussing (among other things) the threats or lack thereof to HST's optical components from rocket exhaust caused by firing shuttle thrusters near HST. In particular, *thruster* exhaust tends to have all sorts of volatile molecules in it, in contrast to shuttle main engine exhaust, which is mainly H2O. In some article in this thread (I can't keep up with N-level quoting, sorry), someone wrote: | i chatted with a guy from lockheed missiles and space. he said that | actually most short chain molecules have a low condensed volatile | material quotient (CVM). even hydrazine is not really a big | problem for optical systems, and even though he couldn't | name birds (classified) he said, the use of hydrazine around | optical arrays was not considered a problem, at least for the | systems they worked on. | | so somehow, i dount that stray CO2, or H2O would really wreck | up the HST. Alas, this isn't true -- CO2 or H20 wouldn't be a serious problem, but anything organic would be *bad* news. (If you got enough H20 it would be adsorbed on the graphite-epoxy optical bench, which would change the focal length -- it's still measurably outgassing from the pre-launch humid-air exposure -- but the amount of H20 from rocket exhaust that would leak in past the aperature door is probably negligable.) Now to the serious problem... Unlike most spy satilites, HST needs good optical performance way down into the vacuum ultraviolet, in fact right down to the Lyman-alpha cutoff at 1200 Angstroms. This can only be achieved with *very* clean optical surfaces -- even a monolayer film can wreak havoc. In fact, the current WFPC (wide-field/planetary camera, the main imaging camera present on HST) suffers quite seriously from this problem. They normally run the CCDs around -80C to keep the readout noise down (they're cooled thermoelectrically, with the heat dumped to outside radiators via heat pipes), and alas it seems that *something* (noone really knows what, though from what the last HST Newsletter said they suspect something in the potting compound for one of the high voltage components) is condensing out on the CCD faces. The net result is that ultraviolet throughput is way down :-( . They can mostly boil it off by warming the CCDs up, but this spoils the pixel-to-pixel-quantum-efficiency calibration, which requires a significant amount of (very precious) observing time to reestablish. To try to deal with this, the WFPC2 (2nd generation WFPC, incorporating corrective mirrors for the main mirror abberation, [hopefully] to be swapped for WFPC in the servicing mission [hopefully] this december) has put a lot of work into contamination control, including extra baffles and I think even an extra (UV-transparent of course) heatable optical windows to isolate the electronics from the CCDs. However, even with this, contamination is a *major* worry, and nobody wants to have any more molecules floating around HST than they possibly have to. (After all, if we break this one, the chances of the US Congress buying us another one anytime soon are, to put it mildly, rather slim...) - Jonathan Thornburg (who hopes *this* shuttle won't blow up on the way up) or [until 31/Aug/93] U of Texas at Austin / Physics Dept / Center for Relativity [thereafter] U of British Columbia / {Astronomy,Physics} "One million Americans have two homes; four million Americans have no homes." ------------------------------ Date: 7 May 1993 20:24:41 -0400 From: Pat Subject: Space Manuevering Tug (was HST servicing mission_) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993May7.190509.25532@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes: > >>I guess fred, you never heard of guidance navigation and control >>thrusters. as long as the tug, can balance the expected forces, >>it will cope. > >Gee, now *that* sounds like a prime example of 'good engineering >analysis'. "It will cope." This tug is starting to sound a lot >bigger than something you're going to 'cobble together'. > Gee fred, that sounds like real good critical analysis, too. Considering that Bus1 already has a full set of GNC hardware, I somehow doubt that it lacks the basic capacity. Of course, i am still waiting for the basic specs to be de-classified. Of course, fred McCall hates the concept. Would you like it any better if a PE signed off on it? >>You have heard of explosive bolts? > >Oh yes. Not exactly the sort of thing I'd want to use for detaching a >tug from service points on a $1G instrument. They are, after all, >*explosive* bolts. They're not named that for the fun of it. > Let me know when terrorists start using these to blow up the world trade center. My understanding from talking to one of the lockheed people is that the shock from firing their patented contamination free explosive bolt the super zip seperator, is that the g-shock is under 1 gee. But I forget these are *explosive* bolts. and of course you know more then I do. > >Well, as opposed to the Pat Plan of certain contamination from all >sorts of firings trying to correct off-center thrust and explosive >bolt disconnects that leave crap all over the vicinity, I think a >remote possibility is to be favored. I also think you may be mistaken >as to where it will be, judging by the manifest for the current >mission, which includes a repair stand, of sorts. > That assumes, fred, that a ESMT, has an off center mass that cannot balance the HST masses. My understanding is the HST is more or less axially symetric on it's weight, and that therefore, it should easily accept some thrust package attached aft. Somehow, id imagine any ESMT would also be mostly axially symetric, and given the space inside a BUS1, there should be plenty of space for atttaching trim weights. You have heard of trim weights. You are still neglecting that any ESMT could alos have reaction wheels to supplement thruster firing or even use Magneto-torquers. Thrust until the Reaction wheels are near saturation, then cut thrust, de-sat the wheels and continue. And please cite, where you read that *explosive* bolts Float contaminants all over the place? my understanding is they are scored to neatly break up. and lockheed markets a contamination free explosive seperator, but that just wouldn't fit your view of the world. After all, it was designed by a PE. and also, you have never explained, how a constantly accelerating package, with the occasional thruster burn from the aft, would have particles go forward and around into the optics. ASsume that no RCS jets are pointed forward. all thrusters are perpendicular to the direction of velocity or point aft. i would be curious to see your explanation. > >>gee fred, i better let you do all the thinking for the world. > >Sounds like you need to get someone to do yours for you, at the very >least. > So do you come up with original ideas, or just criticize everyone else? Do you get paid to do this at work? What a job title. staff kvetch. :-) > >>i chatted with a guy from lockheed missiles and space. he said that >>actually most short chain molecules have a low condensed volatile >>material quotient (CVM). even hydrazine is not really a big >>problem for optical systems, and even though he couldn't >>name birds (classified) he said, the use of hydrazine around >>optical arrays was not considered a problem, at least for the >>systems they worked on. > >Different birds, and those are designed to be moving about. I would >bet some care was taken with their design -- which you aren't going to >be able to duplicate with your 'cobbled together system'. > Doesn't have to be perfect fred, just good enough. and every time i mention that something needs further analysis, you launch into snide personal comments. So your criticism is really groundless. And so what is so different from a KH-12 and a HST. they are both in low orbit, they use 2.5 meter optics, and quality of optical, IR and near UV collection is vital. A KH-12, like the HST is the maximum size bird for the HST. What do you think is the difference from the thruster packages on a 12, from a possible strap on to the HST? And what major differences drive the design? >>so somehow, i dount that stray CO2, or H2O would really wreck >>up the HST. > >I don't consider "well, Pat doubts it will be a problem" to be >particularly convincing. > >-- >"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live > in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden You should read your sig line. change safety to analysis, and we have you. pat ------------------------------ Date: 7 May 1993 20:36:32 -0400 From: Pat Subject: Visas for astronauts after an abort Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993May6.200717.20520@mksol.dseg.ti.com> pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com writes: > |This allowed by wife to get off her plane in Denmark while flying from |Amsterdam to Dallas after some annoyance with one of the PWs caused the pilot |to declare an emergency. What's a PW? ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 547 ------------------------------