Date: Wed, 19 May 93 05:38:31 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #593 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Wed, 19 May 93 Volume 16 : Issue 593 Today's Topics: Grad School Information LE-7 ENGINE FIRING TEST Liberal President murders spaceflight? (was Re: SDIO kaput!) murder in space (4 msgs) Satellite Capabilities-Patriot Games Space hucksterism (was Re: Space Marketing would be wonderfull.) Space Marketing -- Boycott Space Marketing ... CROSSPOSTING SHOULD BE OUTLAWED (2 msgs) Space Marketing would be wonderfull. (4 msgs) Von Braun and Hg (was Re: About the mercury program) (4 msgs) Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 May 93 18:11:02 -0500 From: wrporter@indyvax.iupui.edu Subject: Grad School Information Newsgroups: sci.space Hi folks my name is Randy Porter, and I'm about ready to finish my undergrad career here at IUPUI. I am looking for information on Graduate History Programs with and interest in Aerospace History. I have been told by a friend of mine that they are out there but I'm having trouble finding them. Please drop me a line if you know anything. "Making History the Old Fashion Way, One day at a Time" W.PORTER10 GEnie WRPORTER@INDYVAX.IUPUI.EDU Internet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 05:02:57 GMT From: Kazuo Yoshida NASDA/TKSC Subject: LE-7 ENGINE FIRING TEST Newsgroups: sci.space PRESS RELEASE LE-7 ENGINE FIRING TEST April 27,1993 NASDA HQ, Tokyo National Space Development Agency of Japan (NASDA) conducted the full-duration firing test of LE-7 Engine for H-II Launch Vehicle to confirm its durability at PM 3:27, 1993 at Tanegashima Space Center. Due to the observation of gas leak around the fuel turbo pump, the engine test was suspended manually after the normal firing for 132 seconds. The cause of the gas leak will be analyzed since now. The engine and its firing facility have no change in appearance. **************************************************** For further information, please contact the following: Yoko Inomata, Akiko Suzuki/NASDA Public Relations Office, Tokyo Phone: 03-5470-4283, Fax: 03-5470-4130, asuzuki@rd.tksc.nasda.go.jp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 16:02:19 GMT From: "Mark S. Nelson" Subject: Liberal President murders spaceflight? (was Re: SDIO kaput!) Newsgroups: sci.space > > Thank you Clinton for keeping us on Earth. > > In 20 years when someone asks me why we never went to Mars, I'll just say > > 'Clinton' > > Mr. Bush was trembling on the verge of leading us all into space, when > the triumph was abruptly yanked away by the election of a sort-of > liberal guy? Reagan presided over the first steps of opening up the > solar system? Let's not forget that the liberal (or at least democrat) that every conservative loves to hate, Jimmy Carter, was President during the earliest years of the shuttle program. I don't really think he had much of a problem with space exploration. Also, to say that liberals don't like technology is the same as saying that ALL physicists, chemists, engineers, etc, etc. are conservatives. As a future physicist ( and present undergrad), I can attest to being a technology loving liberal. P.S. The main reasons Reagan and Bush liked space was for military purposes. Hmm...Just think how far we could have gone if we weren't sinking all that money into weapons... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Everything you know is wrong. Mark S. Nelson nelsonm@axe.humboldt.edu mnelson@eis.calstate.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 02:29:02 GMT From: Adrian Lewis Subject: murder in space Newsgroups: sci.space enf021@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Achurist) writes: >If you murdered someone in space, whose juristiction is it. i.e who >will prosecute you for it? The boundaries of individual countries >stop in the upper atmosphere so what happens??? "Flag State Jurisdiction" will apply in most cases (look up any introductory book on international law). Adrian PS I'd hate to think of the jurisdictional mess the ESA could get into. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 02:36:32 GMT From: Adrian Lewis Subject: murder in space Newsgroups: sci.space prb@access.digex.net (Pat) writes: >THe US now has Long Arm statutes, that cover crimes against >Government personnell anywhere, anytime and against >People on US vessels. I think it also inludes, crimes against >US citizens in International areas, including AIrports. NOTE: This is called (from memory) "the passive personality principle" of jurisdiction; and it solves nothing. This is because the US is one of the few countries that believe in it, so it doesn't avoid jurisdictional conflicts. adrian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 07:15:57 GMT From: Ward Paul Subject: murder in space Newsgroups: sci.space,soc.culture.canada,can.politics In article <1tbf3sINNft9@mojo.eng.umd.edu> sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu writes: > >Don't worry. We've got you on the list after we take over Canada, but those U. >of Toronto folks keep on finding the fine print on the contracts we send up. >If they don't stop it, more drastic action will be required. Yeah right. We won last time (and burned the White House to boot!), and we'll do the same thing again if necessary. Ok boys start passing out the beer and hockey sticks; we've got another uppity 'merican to deal with. -- Paul ------------------------------ Date: 19 May 93 08:35:07 GMT From: Anselm Lingnau Subject: murder in space Newsgroups: sci.space In article , djf@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Marvin Batty) writes: > In 2010, A. C. Clarke has the Russians prohibited from boarding Discovery > on the grounds of it being US government property. Wouldn't Discovery (with nobody on board besides HAL, a computer) be an abandoned vessel which anybody could pick up for its scrap value? Anselm -- Anselm Lingnau .................................. lingnau@math.uni-frankfurt.de Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm. --- Ralph Waldo Emerson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 93 03:26:50 GMT From: Dean Adams Subject: Satellite Capabilities-Patriot Games Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993May18.114229.16099@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes: >In <1993May18.075203.23042@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) writes: > > >>clarke@acme.ucf.edu (Thomas Clarke) writes: > >> >>I expect Hollywood has exaggerated for dramatic effect. X-ray >> >>vision from orbit is just not available. >> >I think the imagery was supposed to be in the infrared. > >>Yes... the main "exaggeration" I thought of is that they were showing >>it as LIVE VIDEO. I doubt very much if that is how the sats work. > >I think you can safely bet that there is real-time imagery capability >available. YES, but "real-time imaging" does not have to mean live 30 fps video. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 93 02:00:15 GMT From: Tom Tilley Subject: Space hucksterism (was Re: Space Marketing would be wonderfull.) Newsgroups: sci.astro,talk.environment,talk.politics.space,sci.space,rec.backcountry In article jhart@agora.rain.com (Jim Hart) writes: > >[ Deleted stuff. ] > >So, as long as we can define who "astronomers" are (eg do >"they" include amateur astronomers? Nature lovers?) >we can set up a system of voluntary consensus to solve this >dispute, instead invoking bans, regulations, etc. enforced >by bribed politicians at the point of a gun (why do folks always >think of that sordid solution, "we ought to pass a law", to >solve problems first instead of as a last resort when other >methods have failed?) So instead of passing a law to regulate the commons, we pass a law defining a form of "sight-line property" (which is really, by its nature, a commons regardless of what we want to call it)? >The astronomers own the sky. If they want to sell parts of >it to city-illuminators, advertisers, etc. (eg "the right to emit >N megacandles of light on nights between half and full moon"), >and use the proceeds to buy much better astronomical tools, then both >the economy and astronomy would win, and we could solve the >dispute peacefully without ramming the law down each other's >throats. OK. You did suggest that "nature lovers" might be members of the class "astronomers", so I guess I hold an ownership share. I refuse to sell my right to a billboard-less sky to anyone. If others sell, fine, but as soon as the billboard appears within my line of sight (no matter where I happen to be at the time, and no matter who else sold their rights) I'll be forced to sue the owners of the billboard (if it was intentional, I'll ask punative damages). Now, as long as no one launches a billboard, I guess we can call the dispute "peacefully resolved"? :-) "When you wish upon a car Buy from us, the best by far ..." Tom. #--------------------------------------------------# | Tom Tilley | | Internet : tilley@sunfse.ese.lmsc.lockheed.com | ------------------------------ Date: 19 May 1993 13:30:27 +1000 From: Walker Andrew John Subject: Space Marketing -- Boycott Newsgroups: sci.environment,misc.consumers,misc.invest,sci.astro,talk.environment,talk.politics.space,sci.space,rec.backcountry,misc.rural,misc.headlines,k12.chat.teacher jmalloy@itsmail1.hamilton.edu (Joseph T. Malloy) writes: >In article Dan Gaubatz writes: >>For some reasons we humans think that it is our place to control >>everything. I doubt that space advertising is any worse than any other >>kind advertising, but it will be a lot harder to escape, and is probably >>the most blatant example yet of our disregard for the fact that we are >>not in fact creaters of the universe. Annoying little species, aren't we? >> >More than just annoying: venal, arrogant, greedy. Oh, well... >Joe >jmalloy@hamilton.edu We've destroyed most of the Earth, can't we at least leave something alone?We are supposed to be the most intelligent species, but sometimes you have to wonder. Andrew Walker ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 93 19:37:25 EDT(-0400) From: Edward Reid Subject: Space Marketing ... CROSSPOSTING SHOULD BE OUTLAWED Newsgroups: sci.environment,misc.consumers,sci.astro,talk.environment,talk.politics.space,sci.space,rec.backcountry,misc.rural,misc.headlines,k12.chat.teacher This discussion is interesting but is being crossposted to ELEVEN newsgroups, of which it does not belong in eight or nine. Please review and edit your newsgroups line when following up. Thanks. -- Edward Reid Greensboro FL ed@titipu.resun.com or nosc!blkhole!ed (looking for programming contracts, especially Unisys A-Series) ------------------------------ Date: 19 May 1993 03:09:46 GMT From: Tricia Schmidt Subject: Space Marketing ... CROSSPOSTING SHOULD BE OUTLAWED Newsgroups: sci.environment,misc.consumers,sci.astro,talk.environment,talk.politics.space,sci.space,rec.backcountry,misc.rural,misc.headlines,k12.chat.teacher OK - I hate to contribute to the crossposting, but this may help clear up some of the problem: Many people have asked that we edit the newsgroup line. That isn't possible (at least as far as I know) on the Freenets. SO, here is what you do: 1) Do NOT type F (respond to message in public). 2) Type C (Post a NEW message) Typing C will mean you are contributing a new message - and so that long list of newsgroups will not be on there. The message will only be posted to the newsgroup you are currently in. To make sure that your message is still in the thread, you may want to give it the same subject line. For those of you who aren't on Freenet, and can't edit your newsgroup line, please use the same concept. Don't respond to the messages that have a long list of newsgroups. Instead creat a new message that goes to only one newsgroup. And now, a theat: If this topic continues in Misc.Rural, we'll start posting in all of your newsgroups about manure. So there! +Tricia+ ------------------------------ Date: 18 MAY 93 18:00:18 CST From: stange@meena.cc.uregina.ca Subject: Space Marketing would be wonderfull. Newsgroups: sci.environment,misc.consumers,sci.astro,talk.environment,talk.politics.space,sci.space,rec.backcountry,misc.rural,misc.headlines,k12.chat.teacher You mean, like, banning child pornography starts us down the rocky road to facism and totalitarianism? __ __ _ |__|| |__||/ | an apple][e astange@unibase.unibase.ca | ||__ | || | (}{)interface... stange@meena.uregina.ca --------------------------------------------------------------- And gladly wolde he lerne, and gladly teche. --------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 03:12:25 GMT From: David Fox Subject: Space Marketing would be wonderfull. Newsgroups: sci.environment,misc.consumers,sci.astro,talk.environment,talk.politics.space,sci.space,rec.backcountry,misc.headlines In article <18MAY93.18001836@meena.cc.uregina.ca> stange@meena.cc.uregina.ca writes: You mean, like, banning child pornography starts us down the rocky road to facism and totalitarianism? No, space based pornography demonstrates the power of the capitalistic system! ------------------------------ Date: 18 May 1993 19:54:20 -0700 From: Daniel Mahoney Subject: Space Marketing would be wonderfull. Newsgroups: sci.environment,misc.consumers,misc.invest,sci.astro,talk.environment,talk.politics.space,sci.space,rec.backcountry,misc.rural,misc.headlines,k12.chat.teacher Magnus Redin (redin@lysator.liu.se) wrote: : I realy like this idea, it would be wonderfull to see such a : big bright satelite on the night sky. I will even promise to : try to buy whatever product it advertises to help this project. : Please write to Space Marketing and encourage this project. : I sadly dosent have enough money to invest in it. Personally, I would be disgusted to see an orbiting billboard when I looked up at the night sky. When I gaze into the sky, I want to see stars and other heavenly bodies, not a large corporate advertisement. I would gladly organize a large-scale boycott of any company foolish enough to advertise through such a medium. Daniel Mahoney dmahoney@speedway.net dan@smoggy.speedway.net -- Daniel Mahoney on Speedway Free Access -- (10288)-1-503-520-2222 dmahoney@speedway.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 06:07:04 GMT From: "Daniel R. Juliano " Subject: Space Marketing would be wonderfull. Newsgroups: sci.environment,misc.consumers,sci.astro,talk.environment,sci.space,misc.headlines dmahoney@speedway.net (Daniel Mahoney) writes: >Magnus Redin (redin@lysator.liu.se) wrote: >: I realy like this idea, it would be wonderfull to see such a >: big bright satelite on the night sky. I will even promise to >: try to buy whatever product it advertises to help this project. >: Please write to Space Marketing and encourage this project. >: I sadly dosent have enough money to invest in it. >Personally, I would be disgusted to see an orbiting billboard when I >looked up at the night sky. When I gaze into the sky, I want to see >stars and other heavenly bodies, not a large corporate advertisement. >I would gladly organize a large-scale boycott of any company foolish >enough to advertise through such a medium. Or a large-scale effort to destroy any such monstrosity! >Daniel Mahoney >dmahoney@speedway.net >dan@smoggy.speedway.net >-- >Daniel Mahoney on Speedway Free Access -- (10288)-1-503-520-2222 >dmahoney@speedway.net -- Daniel Juliano Internet: drj21264@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 03:03:33 GMT From: Dave Michelson Subject: Von Braun and Hg (was Re: About the mercury program) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993May18.174340.1@fnalo.fnal.gov> higgins@fnalo.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes: > >Did Wernher von Braun actually have anything to do with the Mercury >program, or did pat just see *The Right Stuff* too many times? (A >lousy way to get your history, by the way...) Inasmuch as he was in charge of the Redstone booster. In "Rockets, Missiles, and Men in Space,'' Willy Ley notes that: ... MA-2 carried a capsule 1432 miles down-range on February 21, 1961. At the urging of Werner von Braun, another Redstone flight was made on March 24, 1961, with a peak altitude of... Von Braun wanted to be very sure of the performance of his elongated Redstone before a human astronaut risked his life .. (p 459) It seems unlikely that von Braun was particularly involved in the detailed design of the Mercury capsule but he was almost certainly involved in the general design of the mission and the setting of specifications for various systems. If nothing else, he and his Marshall team would have been very involved in the design of the interface between the Redstone and the Mercury capsule and certain aspects of the various abort modes. Once JFK called for a moon landing and Mercury shifted to Atlas, it also seems certain that von Braun's efforts were completely refocussed to Saturn- Apollo (as they called it at Marshall!) and that his input into the Mercury orbital and Gemini programs was minimal. -- Dave Michelson -- davem@ee.ubc.ca -- University of British Columbia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 04:06:00 GMT From: Mike Subject: Von Braun and Hg (was Re: About the mercury program) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993May18.174340.1@fnalo.fnal.gov>, higgins@fnalo.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes: >In article <1tb0uo$qpe@access.digex.net>, prb@access.digex.net (Pat) writes: >> Von Brauns original plan was to have the capsule fully automatic, >> with the occupants, performing a few bio experiments. > >Did Wernher von Braun actually have anything to do with the Mercury >program, or did pat just see *The Right Stuff* too many times? (A >lousy way to get your history, by the way...) If you want to get a excellent view of the Mercury Program read the book written by the 7 Mercury astronauts. "WE SEVEN" This will give you great insight to the program and who was responsible for what systems. I don't recall von Braun having anything to do with the automatic flying of the capsule. Here is an interesting fact from the book. Gus Grissom was the one who developed the 'JOYSTICK' control system. Well anyway it is good reading. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 02:57:49 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: Von Braun and Hg (was Re: About the mercury program) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993May18.174340.1@fnalo.fnal.gov> higgins@fnalo.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes: >> Von Brauns original plan was to have the capsule fully automatic... > >Did Wernher von Braun actually have anything to do with the Mercury >program, or did pat just see *The Right Stuff* too many times? (A >lousy way to get your history, by the way...) The latter, probably -- NASA was flying unmanned Mercury tests while von Braun was still a US Army employee, and von Braun was mainly in the launcher business, not the spacecraft business. (Mercury did originate as a military program, but under the USAF, not the Army.) As Bill says, "The Right Stuff" is none too reliable as history. -- SVR4 resembles a high-speed collision | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology between SVR3 and SunOS. - Dick Dunn | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 08:02:13 GMT From: Dave Michelson Subject: Von Braun and Hg (was Re: About the mercury program) Newsgroups: sci.space In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >> >>Did Wernher von Braun actually have anything to do with the Mercury >>program, or did pat just see *The Right Stuff* too many times? (A >>lousy way to get your history, by the way...) > >The latter, probably -- NASA was flying unmanned Mercury tests while >von Braun was still a US Army employee, and von Braun was mainly in >the launcher business, not the spacecraft business. (Mercury did >originate as a military program, but under the USAF, not the Army.) That was, of course, Project MISS - Man in Space Soonest. Nevertheless, von Braun *was* involved in Redstone booster development for Mercury. Ley's account suggests that the elongated version of Redstone might have been developed specifically for Mercury... Was it? When was ABMA transferred to NASA? Didn't that happen when NASA was created? Wasn't responsibility for JPL transferred at the same time? >As Bill says, "The Right Stuff" is none too reliable as history. Agreed. -- Dave Michelson -- davem@ee.ubc.ca -- University of British Columbia ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 593 ------------------------------