Date: Tue,  8 Jun 93 05:00:17    
From: Space Digest maintainer <digests@isu.isunet.edu>
Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu
Subject: Space Digest V16 #697
To: Space Digest Readers
Precedence: bulk


Space Digest                Tue,  8 Jun 93       Volume 16 : Issue 697

Today's Topics:
                   ** CHARTS ECLIPSES (Answers) **
                     AP Story on Freedom Redesign
                  Big Rock Can Hit Earth in Yr 2000
                            DC-X neighbor
                           DC-X turnaround
                       Economics of a moon base
         manifest destiny = US getting uppity again (2 msgs)
                        mass drivers (2 msgs)
                              Moon Base
                             No Planet X?
                   Online IAU Circulars??? (2 msgs)
                          Tourists in space
              Write-offs, as relates to funding for R&D

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 15:27:34 GMT
From: Frank ROUSSEL <rousself@cicb.fr>
Subject: ** CHARTS ECLIPSES (Answers) **
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,alt.binaries.pictures.d

Thanks a lot for your responses !

Since 1989, i've programmed lots of astronomic softwares,
and this who tracks the eclipses' solar maps was released
last summer in two months on my Amiga 500 (not a compatible
PC unfortunately) using GFABasic. I made the world's map,
without any scanner, pixels by pixels ! And projects it on
a sphere. Sorry, this software is till now private...

But the images are free available ! I've decided to follow
the advice of Gary Murphy about the names of the files
'seclYYMM.gif' (secl for Solar ECLipse), because i plan to
track lunar eclipses too (lecl for Lunar ECLipse) and i got
some planetary occultations' maps by the moon (pocc for
Planetary OCCultation by the moon).

I have to retrieve all this images from my Amiga to install
them on the net. It will take this and next weeks to do so.
Be patient ! As soon as it will be done, i will warn you all
and tell where there are available (by anonymous FTP).

My project is to make a Canon of solar eclipses (for instant,
ten years since 1991 till 2000)

Below is the chart of total solar eclipse June 1973:
sorry for the center line !
(uudecode the body "begin... ...end")

begin 640 secl7306.gif
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+KYB@"\J@$A,( #N>
 
end

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   _______       _______       ________   | Firstname: Frank
  /______/|     /______/\     /_______/|  | Lastname : ROUSSEL
 / ______|/    /  ____ \/|    |__   __|/  | E-mail: rousself@univ-rennes1.fr
/ /|           | |____| |/       | ||     | Telephone: + 33 99 83 26 10
| ||           |  __  __/        | ||     | 
| |\______     | || \ \\       __| ||__   | Address: 175, rue Belle Epine
\ \______/|    | ||  \ \\     /__| |/_/|  | CityStateZip: 35510
 \_______|/    |_|/   \_\|    |_______|/  | Cityname: CESSON SEVIGNE
    Centre de Ressources Informatiques    | Country: FRANCE
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------- Science without conscience is only soul's ruin (Rabelais) ------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Signed: The responsible of ASTROGOF project at Rennes' University of France   -
- who contributes to the development of CRI-CICB Gopher's server (ASTRO images) -
-- by maintaining an astronomic ftp server 'ftp.cicb.fr' in /pub/Images/ASTRO  --
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 93 14:56:18 GMT
From: Andy Cohen <Cohen@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: AP Story on Freedom Redesign
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <1993Jun6.230031.1899@iti.org>, aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
wrote:
> 
> 
> There is an interesting AP story about the station redesign out today.
> I quote part of the story:
> 
>    In advance of that report, a NASA official clost to the redesign
>    process spoke with reporters Saturday on condition that he not
>    be identified publicly. The anonymity enabled him to speak with
>    unusual candor for a government official.
> 
>    "We never told the American people really how much the space
>    station would cost", he said.
> 
>    That was vindication for congressional critics and other
>    analysts, such as the GAO, who have said for years that 
>    NASA sold its big programs to Congress by fudging on their
>    costs.
> 
> I told ya Dennis, but you wouldn't believe me!
> 
Ya....know....

NASA also can't say for sure exactly how much.....the Apollo program cost
too!

It seems that a significant number of people put their own time in at no
charge for altruistic reasons.....  The result is that nobody really knows
how much it cost!

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 93 22:04:06 GMT+12
From: Ross Smith <alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz>
Subject: Big Rock Can Hit Earth in Yr 2000
Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.environment,sci.physics,sci.astro

In article <pgf.739150317@srl03.cacs.usl.edu> pgf@srl03.cacs.usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering) writes:
>zcapk43@ucl.ac.uk (Peter Newman) writes:
>
>>Is it true that the name of this object, Toutatis, is a pun based on
>>it being a contact binary, i.e. "two taties" (potatoes)...?  :-)
>
>Altogether now:
>
>Toutatis was a god worshipped by many Gaulic tribes as some
>sort of protector.

(And the asteroid was named long before anyone saw the images.)

Does anyone know what the correct pronunciation of `Toutatis' is?

--
... Ross Smith (Wanganui, New Zealand) ... alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz ...
"Look, we're travelling faster than the speed of light.  That means, by the
time we see something, we've already passed through it.  Even with an IQ of
6000, it's still brown trousers time."                              (Holly)

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 1993 14:51:20 GMT
From: Andy Cohen <Cohen@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: DC-X neighbor
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <1ut9ls$5i6@access.digex.net>, prb@access.digex.net (Pat) wrote:
> 
> 
> Sure.
> 
> 	what hardware are theyt running on the bird and on the fround.
> What  major systems packages (DBMS,,,,)  what comms protocol do
> they use between the bird and ground..  how is the remote piloting
> controlled.  i assume all digitally,  could you talk about that?
> 

The CPU is the same box as the F-15.  I was told the code was written by
IBM...at less then cost.  Honeywell and MDA, both out of Kennedy, did the
"off-the-shelf" C&C SW and the command trailer.
I clueless on what protocols are used during flight for telemetry, but I
know that during the ground tests it's a FDDI with standard commercial
protocols...
Very little is operated manually during flight....  I watched one launch
scenario from the command trailer while the bird reacted in the lab...  The
primary operations are to monitor status and look for abort criteria...I
also noticed a mission profile selection... But most C&C stuff was for
ground testing.  They used Data Views (a User Interface Mgmt System) to
develop the screens and run them on SG Workstations.  There's a mainframe
which supports the data servers (I think they're VAXes, but I'm not
sure...).  The screens look like a mixture of process control displays and
RPV controls....  Lots of graphics and animation....  It really made me
sick...  We've been working towards that on SSF for 5 long slow years while
they pulled it off in less then 18 months.....

A lot of the hardware....i.e., hinges, rivets, cables and stuff.... comes
from Home Depot.

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 1993 14:53:05 GMT
From: Andy Cohen <Cohen@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: DC-X turnaround
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <C88KA6.C37.1@cs.cmu.edu>, 18084TM@msu.edu (Tom) wrote:
> 
> Andy Cohen sez;
> >>I heard that they require an 8 hour turn around before firing again.....
> 
> Allen responds;
> >Yep!
> 
> >>EIGHT hours.
> 
> >Not bad huh?
> 
> >>and I may be off by two hours too...it may have been 6...  I just could not
> >>believe what I heard.
> 
> >No, it was eight hours. Not only that, yesterday wasn't the first time
> >they did it...
> 
> Wasn't it designed for (fundung based on) a 24-hour turnaround?
> 
> Boy, I tell ya, the thing hasn't even flown, and they're already missing
> their design goals by a factor of three :-)
> 


Wellllll....

DC-X is one third scale of the eventual real thing......right?  Thanks!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Jun 93 05:58:43 EDT
From: Tom <18084TM@msu.edu>
Subject: Economics of a moon base

Gary Coffman sez;
>>Volume only works when it pushes past a cost barrier and begins to reap the
>>benefits of economies of scale. In that case you don't lose money on every
>>sale.

Nick Janow responds;
>That's for one specific business.  The situation is different when that one
>business is part of a larger business with many products and services.  It's
>okay to lose ten billion a year on a lunar base if you get twenty billion a
>year in taxes and economic activity driven by the space industry.

It would be OK, except that it'll never happen.  If ten billion dollars
worth of labor, equipment, or whatever, goes to the moon and never comes
back, it's a loss.  Cook the books, figure taxes, print more money, the
wealth is still gone, and doing the same thing faster won't bring it back.

Or, to include the taxes, where do all those space-industry people get
the money to pay those taxes?  Either from government contracts, which means
that you can't pay out 10 G and expect to get more than 10G in taxes, or from
private concerns, who don't get to figure in the taxes they receive, since
they don't receive any, but rather only count the loss.

By 'economic activity' I assume you mean the production of wealth.  How
losing wealth in turn 'drives' the production of wealth is a mystery to me.

If you are talking about some mystical effect, like people working harder
because they are inspired or what-not, all I can say is, I don't think so.

-Tommy Mac
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk   \ They communicated with the communists,
18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \ and pacified the pacifists. -TimBuk3
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 13:51:39 EET
From: flb@flb.optiplan.fi (F.Baube[tm])
Subject: manifest destiny = US getting uppity again

From: James Davis Nicoll <jdnicoll@prism.ccs.uwo.ca>
> 
> >now some of the stuff in the NASM may neeed a few years to cool off, but
> >the exhibits should all be intact.
> 
> [..] that  means the museum
> is totalled if it  is less  than 1900  meters from ground zero,  and
> damaged if less than 4000 meters away.  What's the nearest  hardened
> target?

Well, the Defense Mapping Agency is on the west side 
of town, about three (?) miles away on MacArthur Blvd.  
Dunno if it's hardened, but it's certain to be a target.

-- 
* Fred Baube (tm)   * "One fashions several vocabularies for oneself,
* GU/MSFS/88        *  several syntaxes, several clearly distinct
* baube@optiplan.fi *  ways of being, thinking and even feeling,
* #include          *  from which one will choose an appropriate
*    <disclaimer.h> *  skin." -- Lucy Schwob aka Claude Cahun

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 14:47:42 GMT
From: Doug Loss <loss@fs7.ECE.CMU.EDU>
Subject: manifest destiny = US getting uppity again
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <C867ry.IHM@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
>In article <1uoegpINNabs@mojo.eng.umd.edu> sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu writes:
>>>	Alas, coming  from a  neighbor of the US, 'manifest destiny'
>>>hasthe implication you folks  are contemplating yet another  unsuccessful
>>>invasion.
>>
>>Just lay back and think of England, bub... We have to do it so the jarhea-,
>>er Marines don't embarass themselves again...
>
>And to think we spared their headquarters when we burned Washington DC.
>Well, we won't make *that* mistake again...
>
>[...]
>
>We're still debating exactly what do with all the new territory.  The
>British like the idea of getting the original Thirteen Colonies back,

   Well, considering how Quebec is recognized as some kind of special
culture within Canada, and how the provinces have more autonomy than the
states, I think I can safely say that the Pennsylvania Dutch will insist
on similar treatment.  Dutch-only signs!  Mandatory Dutch school
attendance (we won't make the Quebecois mistake of allowing a few
piddling English schools)!  And if you don't please us, we'll quit
playing in your federation!  'Wiedersehen!
;-)

Doug Loss
loss@husky.bloomu.edu

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 93 06:43:12 GMT
From: Michael Sandy <michaels@psg.com>
Subject: mass drivers
Newsgroups: sci.space

I think you people are forgeting a few things.  Launching a _ballistic_
projectile inside the atmosphere has a few problems.  A slight
difference in atmospheric pressure could cause a _big_ difference in
course.  You need a stage-to-orbit system sufficiently robust to
reliably operate after a launch of ~10,000 gs and burning through
the _lower_ atmosphere at orbital velocity.

Gosh, how would Jules Verne solve this problem! P:+)  He'd be
tickled pink to see that sort of launch.


-- 
Michael Sandy
michaels@m2xenix.psg.com
"I resolve to make no non-tautological New Year's Resolutions!"

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 93 12:50:44 GMT
From: Paul Dietz <dietz@cs.rochester.edu>
Subject: mass drivers
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <1993Jun7.064312.5255@psg.com> michaels@psg.com (Michael Sandy) writes:

>I think you people are forgeting a few things.  Launching a _ballistic_
>projectile inside the atmosphere has a few problems.

Um, you were aware we were talking about a mass driver on the *moon*,
right?

	Paul

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 1993 15:22:49 GMT
From: Doug Mohney <sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu>
Subject: Moon Base
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <1993Jun4.220016.25473@julian.uwo.ca>, jdnicoll@prism.ccs.uwo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>	They'll have one less national flag to remember but ten
>extra State flags. It doesn't seem like a wise move...

Yes, but there's a difference between an embarassment and an international
incident.

>	What happened to the marine who mixed the flag, anyway? 

Probably handing out MREs in Somalia. 



    Software engineering? That's like military intelligence, isn't it?
  -- >                  SYSMGR@CADLAB.ENG.UMD.EDU                        < --

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 1993 16:01 UT
From: Ron Baalke <baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: No Planet X?
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary

Recent analysis by Dr. E. Myles Standish from JPL indicates that Planet X does
not exist.  Astronomers for over half a century have been searching for
Planet X based on what appeared to be irregularities in the orbits of
Uranus and Neptune.  However, when the extremely accurate measurements
of the mass of Neptune made by the Voyager 2 flyby in 1989 are
inserted in the equations, these irregularities vanish.  The mass of
Neptune is now known to be off by five-tenths of 1 percent.  When
the new value for Neptune's mass is factored into the equations, the orbits
of the outer planets are shown to be moving as expected, going all the
way back to the early 1800's.  The results of Dr. Standish's analysis are
published in the May issue of The Astronomical Journal.
     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | The tuatara, a lizard-like
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | reptile from New Zealand,
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     | has three eyes.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Jun 93 15:19:41 PRT
From: Luis Pontes <FXANDALP%PTEARN.BITNET@FRMOP11.CNUSC.FR>
Subject: Online IAU Circulars???

Hi all:

Does anybody on this list knows if there is any Anonymous FTP site that carries
 IAU circulars? I really would like to get them.
Any help will be appreciated
Thanks in advance

Luis Pontes
FXANDALP@PTEARN.BITNET
FXANDALP@PTEARN.FC.UL.PT

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 1993 15:03:58 GMT
From: Greg F Walz Chojnacki <gwc@csd4.csd.uwm.edu>
Subject: Online IAU Circulars???
Newsgroups: sci.space

From article <C8972K.MLE.1@cs.cmu.edu>, by FXANDALP%PTEARN.BITNET@FRMOP11.CNUSC.FR (Luis Pontes):
> Hi all:
> 
> Does anybody on this list knows if there is any Anonymous FTP site that carries
>  IAU circulars? I really would like to get them.
> Any help will be appreciated
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Luis Pontes

[This should be an FAQ]

No one that I know of posts the IAU circulars, though occasionally excerpts are
posted.

The reason is that  the subscription fee for the circulars is the main funding
source for the circulars. IF the circulars become widely available for free,
the funding dries up, and the service will become endangered, if not 
untenable.

It costs about $150/year to get the circulars. You may find them listed on 
some BBSs, but IMO it's unethical to post them.

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Jun 93 03:38:01 EDT
From: Tom <18084TM@msu.edu>
Subject: Tourists in space

Pat sez;
>We have had at least three tourists in space.  Sen Garn, Rep Mack????
>( His district is in Florida,  Bill something)  and one saudi prince.

At least.

Considering how long anyone has actually stayed in space, a case could be
made that all the astronauts have been tourists.  "Look, dear, isn't that a
lovely view of the Earth?  I just wish mother could have come with us.
I'm glad so many people speak English here.  Isn't the food strange?
I told you we should have brought extra film!  Too bad we have to leave
so soon.  Aren't the bathrooms just awful?" :-) :-) :-)

-Tommy Mac
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk   \ They communicated with the communists,
18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \ and pacified the pacifists. -TimBuk3
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Jun 93 03:07:21 EDT
From: Tom <18084TM@msu.edu>
Subject: Write-offs, as relates to funding for R&D

Pat sez;
>>      Dennis, I will read the article, but I think you may
>>      be reading too much into the "Write- OFF" of the SATURN
>>      R&D dollars, and Capital investment dollars.
>>      Saturn is at this point over 10 years old.  GM
>>      has probably depreciated this Investment against
>>      other Profits,  and now are merely conducting the final
>>      writedown.

>>      Trust Me dennis.  IF companies had to conduct enormous
>>      loss leading R&D,without a TRUE profit at the end of
>>      the road,  they'd be out of business. ATT Bell labs were
>>      the only organization that could just write off R&D dollars
>>      like a federal facility.

>Pat I will try to dig up the mag and give you the quotes. I trust you
>implicitly pat but the fact is that this is exactly what GM did. I might
>add that those guys are having big losses which is partially due to the
>Saturn write off. It is not a depreciation but a write off according to
>the article.

Sorry to jump in here, but there is an explanation for this behavior, which
may not be covered by Dennis' analysis.   Whether this explanation is
true is open to question, as it is only the most sensical (IMHO) interpre-
tation for the write-off.  As far as I know, GM hasn't provided a reason,
so we just have to figure it out.   Anyway, here's the (not original) idea;

GM, expecting new Clinton taxes, took a huge loss this year, which they
will be able to forward, as capital loss deductions, for several years.
(They also recently 'paid' a lot of their pension-plan money out for the
same reason)  So they are protecting future profits from increased taxation.
In other words, they can turn one pretty bad year into a dozen really
good years, especially since the Saturn line can improve or sell better
during those following years, the profits for which can be totally protected.

Point being, the US tax system, because gov uses it to coerc... I mean,
provide 'incentives', has become a punitive/subsidy system, so actions
taken while under it's influence aren't necessarily indicative of market
influences.  So, judgements about how GM's behavior relates to the question
of cost vs. return probably aren't very meaningful, for this case.

-Tommy Mac
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk   \ They communicated with the communists,
18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \ and pacified the pacifists. -TimBuk3
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Nick Janow <Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: mass drivers
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 06:57:33 GMT
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pgf@srl03.cacs.usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering) writes:

> SSI eventually fixed this problem in Mass drivers II and III by setting it
> up so that the coils only _pulled_ the bucket, making the center of the
> assembly a point of stable equilibrium instead of unstable equilibrium. (I
> may have the phrasing wrong.)

That won't solve the problem of hitting a tiny target area hundreds of
thousands of kms away.  The drive coils provide the acceleration and coarse
aiming.  To correct deviations from the ideal velocity vector, you add some
fine correction coils, and perhaps some really fine correction system (like
the lasers).

--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca

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End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 697
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