Space Digest Wed, 11 Aug 93 Volume 17 : Issue 008 Today's Topics: (2 msgs) >Manned Spaceflight Bibliography, 2/6 Auction of Soviet space goodies Buran Hype? (was Re: DC-X Prophets and associated problems) DC-X Kelly Act NOAA-I (13) sensors? Re: Starlite, Super Material? Super Lunar Excursion Module Model Titan IV failure. Info? What's up with Perseids (1993 or 1994?) Why the Shuttle will never be popular. (3 msgs) Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 10 Aug 93 08:39:33 GMT From: "H.S." Subject: Newsgroups: sci.space >>You represent UCSD? Hypocrite. > >I am Hypocrite ? > >I didn't speak for *someone else* like you!!!!!!!!! >That was the rereason why I said that. Well, since i said that I did not speak for someone else, then it implied that I did not speak for my organization or represent it. The reason I questioned him ( forgot his name) was because few weeks ago, some people from outside was sent to the ucsd Sun_lab, and math_computer lab, on a special mession while the system managers at ucsd were not notified. Good or bad, this was a fact. It may be silly to post these things to sci.space. Everything has taken place internally, under some sort of secrecy. It is very difficult for outsider to understand, unless somebody is going to write up a long fictions. H.S. ucsd.math. >>-rabjab ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 14:19:07 GMT From: fred j mccall 575-3539 Subject: Newsgroups: sci.space In <53168@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> hshen@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (H.S.) writes: >>>You represent UCSD? Hypocrite. >> >>I am Hypocrite ? >> >>I didn't speak for *someone else* like you!!!!!!!!! >>That was the rereason why I said that. > Well, since i said that I did not speak for someone else, then > it implied that I did not speak for my organization or represent it. I'm sure UCSD is enormously pleased at that. > > The reason I questioned him ( forgot his name) was because few weeks ago, > some people from outside was sent to the ucsd Sun_lab, and > math_computer lab, on a special mession while the system > managers at ucsd were not notified. OhMiGhod! A *SPECIAL MESSION*!!!!! Quick! It must be the lemurs in disguise! > Good or bad, this was a fact. It may be silly to post these things > to sci.space. Everything has taken place internally, under some > sort of secrecy. It is very difficult for outsider to understand, > unless somebody is going to write up a long fictions. Pretty much everything you've posted has been silly to post to sci.space. Try alt.conspiracy. -- "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 15:56:14 GMT From: gregb@tosgcla.den.mmc.com Subject: >Manned Spaceflight Bibliography, 2/6 Newsgroups: sci.space Manned Space Flight Bibliography Part 2/6, Revision: August 10, 1993 OTHER MEDIA (FILMS, VIDEO, SOUND): "A Nice Flying Machine" "Apollo 11 Mission Minutes, Mission Control, July 20, 1969", Videotape, Johnson Space Flight Center, Houston, Texas. "Apollo 11's Moon Landing", 35 mm Microfilm reel, Product #M-6925, California Microfilm Co., Fresno, 1969, 1000 pages. "Apollo 11: We Have Landed on the Moon", Narrated by Paul Haney, Capitol SKAO 326, 33 1/3 RPM stereophonic sound disc, Capitol Records, 1969. "Blue Planet" "Charlie Duke, Moonwalker", video, Produced by Charlie Duke, Directed and narrated by Carey Deckard, Duke Enterprises, San Antonio, TX, 1988, 60 minutes. "For All Mankind", produced and directed by Al Reinert. "From Apollo to the Stars", produced and directed by Jeanne Edmunds Apostol and Beth Worth, Executive Producer Gene Roddenberry, Worthwhile Productions, 50 minutes, 1989. "Man on the Moon" video, Narrated by Walter Cronkite, CBS Video, New York, 1981, 80 minutes. "Mercury & Gemini Spacecraft Missions", NASA video "#V9", Finley-Holiday Film Corporation, Whittier, CA, 198?, 60 minutes. "Moonwalk: As it Happened 1969", NBC News Production for A&E Cable Network, hosted by Edwin Newman, 55 minutes, video, July 1989. "One small step for man...", American Sound & Video, 120 minutes, 198?, (Apollo 11-17 highlights of America's manned lunar Explorations). "Planet Mars: Mercury, The Exploration of a Planet", video, Finley-Holiday Film Corporation, Whittier, CA, 198? (NASA originally made 1976 and 1979), 60 minutes. "Soviet Eyes on Space", Quanta Productions, video, 1987. "Spaceflight", written, produced, and directed by Blaine Baggett, Signature (A Communications Co), hosted by Martin Sheen, four 45 minute episodes, video, 1987. "Thunder in the Skys", "The Wings of Mercury", "One Giant Leap" "The Apollo Moon Landings", and "Apollo 11 Plus the Apollo Program", video, Finley-Holiday Film Corporation, Whittier, CA, 1989, 60 minutes. "The Moon Above The Earth Below", written and produced by Perry Wolff, CBS News, hosted by Dan Rather, 45 minutes, video, 1989. "The Right Stuff" "The Russian Right Stuff: The History of the Space Program", NOVA, Public Broadcasting System, three 50 minute episodes, video, 1991. "The Space Shuttle", Cinema 360 Inc, video, 1984. "Voyage of Friendship 7", NASA Film Library, video "10112", Cannata Communications, Houston, TX, 1989, 30 minutes. "Voyage to the Planets: Highlights of America's Interplanetary Explorations", video "V3317-M", American Sound & Video Corporation, Warren, MI, 1989, 90 minuntes. -- -- Use this address: gregb@tosgcla.den.mmc.com, NOT the other one. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 15:18:59 GMT From: Dennis Newkirk Subject: Auction of Soviet space goodies Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Aug9.160722.1@fnala.fnal.gov> higgins@fnala.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes: >Other items include: > >--Space food samples >--Mir cutlery etched with designs by bored cosmonauts >--Khruschev's telegram congratulating Gagarin on his flight >--Gherman Titov's fork (first guy to eat in space) >--Ivan Ivanovich, first mannequin to fly aboard Vostok Some of the items were displayed on CNN yesterday, they also include an Almaz capsule. This is the Chelomey designed capsule similar to the one he first proposed for his UR500K/LK circumlunar mission and later developed as a crew transport (popularly known as the Star Module) for the Almaz/Salyut military stations (Salyut 3 & 5). Kosmos 929, 1256, 1443 used this type of capsule and inert capsules flew on Kosmos 1686 and possibly 1669. It's similar in size to an Apollo capsule but also has a hatch through the heat sheild. They also reportedly flew the mysterious dual-Kosmos missions Kosmos 881/882, etc... Dennis Newkirk (dennisn@ecs.comm.mot.com) Motorola, Land Mobile Products Sector Schaumburg, IL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 16:39:18 GMT From: 11086 Subject: Buran Hype? (was Re: DC-X Prophets and associated problems) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <2460coINN28t@nsat.ipp-garching.mpg.de> bds@uts.ipp-garching.mpg.de (Bruce d. Scott) writes: >Jim West wrote: > >"A couple of years back I was fortunate enough (at Goddard Space Flight >Center) to hear a speech by the director of the Soviet space program. (I >can't remember his name, unfortunately.) He made to statements that amused ^^ two :-) >us all greately (the quotes are certainly not exact, but make the point): > >[gives a couple of Sagdeev-like quips]" > >Was this Roald Sagdeev? The lines you give make me think so. He likes to >take jabs at all the stuff he had to swallow to rise in the USSR. I apologize to everyone who has given possible identities to the person I quoted...I simply cannot remember who it was I saw. I seem to remember him being introduced as **the** director of the Soviet Space program in the summer of 1991. But the emphasis on **the** director may easily have been added arbitrarily to my random memory to make a better story. But the quotes are certainly amusing from anyone in the Soviet Space program, I hope you will agree. Jim >-- >Gruss, >Dr Bruce Scott The deadliest bullshit is >Max-Planck-Institut fuer Plasmaphysik odorless and transparent >bds at spl6n1.aug.ipp-garching.mpg.de -- W Gibson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 14:40:27 GMT From: Stewart T Fleming Subject: DC-X Newsgroups: sci.space In article , Scott_Chisholm@um.umich.cc.edu (Scott Chisholm) writes: > Rediculous statement. It takes 15 min. to learn how to use a computer >for most uses like word processing and stuff. Sorry, but your punctuation is incorrect here. This sentence should read : "Ridiculous statement : It takes 15 min. to learn how to use a computer for most uses like word processing and stuff." STF -- sfleming@cee.hw.ac.uk, sfleming@icbl.hw.ac.uk Don't write code with bugs. Don't write code. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 12:23:28 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: Kelly Act Newsgroups: sci.space In article amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk writes: |It also, if my memory serves me correctly, had several other effects. |What happened was worse than even the main players expected. A |government official took them into a meeting and parcelled out the |air mail routes. They were told who would live and who would not; who |would merge with whom... |I'd really rather see a bit less of a Central Planning model than the |Kelly Act. I agree that those where problems with the execution. A scheme like that wouldn't work anyway today since nobody could trust the government to maintain funding over a one year horizion. What would work would be a separate foundation or corporation which invests seed money in bonds and uses the interest to gurantee a market of a particular size. If nobody responds, the money is invested again to increase the yearly income and make the market bigger. It then reduces the price it will pay and increases the market size. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | Mortiki: "What do we do after we do it?" | | aws@iti.org | Man with no name: "Ya live with it." | +----------------------11 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX-----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 14:36:56 GMT From: Oliver Weatherbee Subject: NOAA-I (13) sensors? Newsgroups: sci.space Well, after not checking with the sci.space group for a while, I was surprised to learn that NOAA-I (aka NOAA-13 to be) has been successfully launched and is now in orbit. Could someone much more well-informed than I, summarize the sensor array aboard. I'm particularly interested in finding out if NOAA-13 carries an AVHRR sensor like NOAA-11 (hopefully, not like NOAA-12). Thanks, Oliver Weatherbee oliver@earthview.cms.udel.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 10:12:01 GMT From: Alan Carter Subject: Re: Newsgroups: sci.space In article <53168@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, hshen@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (H.S.) writes: |> >>You represent UCSD? Hypocrite. |> > |> >I am Hypocrite ? |> > |> >I didn't speak for *someone else* like you!!!!!!!!! |> >That was the rereason why I said that. |> |> Well, since i said that I did not speak for someone else, then |> it implied that I did not speak for my organization or represent it. |> |> The reason I questioned him ( forgot his name) was because few weeks ago, |> some people from outside was sent to the ucsd Sun_lab, and |> math_computer lab, on a special mession while the system |> managers at ucsd were not notified. |> |> Good or bad, this was a fact. It may be silly to post these things |> to sci.space. Everything has taken place internally, under some |> sort of secrecy. It is very difficult for outsider to understand, |> unless somebody is going to write up a long fictions. The "Sandor" jokes were funny but this is getting so much like the "Net of a Million Lies" I'm thinking it's a put on. I keep waiting for the other foot to drop, drop, drop, drop, drop. Alan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1 Belle Vue Court |"In an ultimate tribute, | Home: 0684 564438 32 Belle Vue Terrace | sixteen particularly keen | Away: 0628 784351 Great Malvern | Gi opera aficionados | Work: 0628 794137 Worcestershire | expired in aesthetic ecstacy | WR14 4PZ | at the climax of her perform-| Temporary: agc@bnr.ca England | ance." Julian May | Permanent: alan@gid.co.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 1993 14:43:09 GMT From: Jim Jones Subject: Starlite, Super Material? Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Aug9.233519.9200@psg.com> michaels@psg.com (Michael Sandy) writes: > >I read in BusinessWeek, of all places, about a supposed supermaterial >that conducted heat very well and was almost impossible to damage with >heat. The inventor called it Starlite, and if it lives up to its rep it >could enable a whole new breed of space craft. > >Is this just another 'Cold-Fusion' tail-chase? Supposedly the guy was >holding out for a 51% interest in anything that used his product, rather >steeper than royalties. Then no one will use his material (I think it's a plastic of sorts), except in very specialized circumstances. Sounds like a mix a stupidity and greed. Someone might take him up on it for production of aerospace heat shielding, but a 50% interest in such products is worth a lot less than, say, a 3% royalty on household ranges and ovens. CNN carried something on this a couple of months ago, and it made the papers at that time, too. The inventor is a self-taught chemist/inventor who's done well enough by the field to have his own company. He can't explain why the plastic works, and neither can anyone else, but apparently the U.S. and British militaries have samples and are impressed. So the product seems to have some validity. Still, the "give me half up front or I'll take my ball and go home" approach smacks of hucksterism and the Dean Drive. I'd be wary. -- "I have the terrible feeling that, because I have a white beard and am sitting in the back of the theater, you expect me to tell you the truth about something. These are the cheap seats, not Mount Sinai." Orson Welles, "Someone to Love." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 08:19:15 -0400 (EDT) From: JSEXTON@UNCA.EDU Subject: Super Lunar Excursion Module Model I just rcvd. a neat but expensive model of the LEM (Lunar Excursion Module) from Franklin Mint. The model was nicely made and quite attractive. It is made much like the other models Franklin Mint makes.However this is the first SPACE model I have ever seen -except the Star Trek and ST-TNG models. The model can be joined as one unit or the ascent stage can sit atop the descent stage -whichever one prefers. The unit sits on a simulated lunar surface unit that is also very nice. The entire package sells for about $200 , but if you want a quality model like it, I assume this is only one I'm aware of that's available. I assume a Command Service Module will be next,although nothing has come to me in the form of advertizements. Feel free to E-Mail me if you have any questions =:-) John Sexton (JSEXTON@UNCA.EDU) =:-) ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 1993 09:01:50 -0400 From: Pat Subject: Titan IV failure. Info? Newsgroups: sci.space In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >The original Columbia was a naval vessel too, and I believe Captain Cook's >ships (one of the Discoveries, and the original Endeavour) were as well. >Civilian oceanographic vessels are a relatively recent development (and >in fact I believe Atlantis was the first built as such). OH wow. this may be a henry correction. Judges, please...... While civilian exploration and oceanographic vessels may be a new developemet for the united states, they are historically, not the case. I believe the use of the rondels by the columbian expeditions would count, and columbus did do some reasonable science work on the trip. Also, amundsen i believe was entirely a civilian, and he conducted a major percent age of the serious science work done in polar research. The british tradition of sending the navy on science expeditions had more to do with keeping bored navy crews busy, and less to do with practical science. judging by their failures to learn from any experience, it is obvious they were not in the science business. pat -- I don't care if it's true. If it sounds good, I will publish it. Frank Bates Publisher Frank Magazine. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 05:40:40 GMT From: Greg Cronau Subject: What's up with Perseids (1993 or 1994?) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Aug9.200938.25834@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu>, Scott R. Ehrlich wrote: >I keep reading messages that Perseids will be occuring Aug. 11 and 12 >of this year, and some other messages mentioning that the shower will >occur NEXT year. Also, for this year's shower, the messages mentioning >1994 have said the best view will be in Asia (western, I think?) The Persied meteor shower occurs *every* year. It has for at least a 1000 years of recorded history. However, this year there are indications that it may become a meteor *storm* for a few hours on the night of August 11th. The peak is predicted for 01:00 GMT August 12th., which is 9:00PM EDT August 11th. for North America. A normal meteor *shower* peaks at around 60 events per hour. About 1 meteor per minute. On the other hand, rates as high as 6000 events per hour have been recorded during meteor storms. This is better than 1 per second. Meteor showers are fairly common, storms are *very* rare. I don't know about the View in Asia. >What's the scoup? Should I set time aside on the 12th of Aug. for the >shower, or wait until next year? What I hear is that a Brittish report was misinterpreted by a news reporting agency which led them to report that *next* year would be the big show. Apparently that report was in error and has been corrected. --- Greg Cronau | gregc@edi.com (Pref.) |"Those who cannot remember Computer Consultant/Joat | gregc@clif.ypsi.mi.us | the past, are doomed to 1405 NorthBrook Drv. | 76407,2311 (CI$) | repost it every month." Ann Arbor MI. 48103-6166 | 313-741-0748 | -- Ed Vielmetti ------------------------------ Date: 9 Aug 93 17:58:32 GMT From: Bruce Watson Subject: Why the Shuttle will never be popular. Newsgroups: sci.space In article <243uro$idq@access.digex.net| prb@access.digex.net (Pat) writes: | |I think the STS is the winnebago of rockets. | STS is not a Winnebago. It's a dump truck. -- Bruce Watson (wats@scicom.alphacdc.com) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 12:32:29 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: Why the Shuttle will never be popular. Newsgroups: sci.space In article <40537@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM> wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson) writes: >|I think the STS is the winnebago of rockets. >STS is not a Winnebago. It's a dump truck. STS is a Lamborgini: it gets maximum performance out of every single component and gram of weight. For that reason, it's also very expensive to buy, very expensive to maintain, and is in the shop a lot for maintenance. What we need is the dump truck: cheap, rugged, and reliable. allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | Mortiki: "What do we do after we do it?" | | aws@iti.org | Man with no name: "Ya live with it." | +----------------------11 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX-----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 1993 09:04:31 -0400 From: Pat Subject: Why the Shuttle will never be popular. Newsgroups: sci.space In article <40537@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM> wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson) writes: |In article <243uro$idq@access.digex.net| prb@access.digex.net (Pat) writes: || ||I think the STS is the winnebago of rockets. || |STS is not a Winnebago. It's a dump truck. It's expensive, it looks stupid, it sits in the garage most of the time, it's used a whole lot less then Dad swore it would be. it's not useful for most of the transportation needs of the family, but Jr finds it useful for bagging his girlfriend in. it's a winnebago. a dump truck works. is driven by high school dropouts named biff and meets rated specs. pat -- I don't care if it's true. If it sounds good, I will publish it. Frank Bates Publisher Frank Magazine. ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 17 : Issue 008 ------------------------------