========================================================================= (C) 1994 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 8 Sun Oct 25, 1992 ORA.TECH at 20:18 EST Sub: HiSoft Basic 2 The BASIC of the 90's 200 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 1 Mon Nov 02, 1992 HUMPHRIES.JR [Roger] at 19:38 EST Hi, I guess I will get this one started. I have been using HiSoft Basic for a few years now, and have upgraded to HiSoft Basic 2. I think it is a __great__ version of Basic. Unfortunately it has not gotten a lot of user support or interest in terms of sharing information. There has been some message traffic in the previous HiSoft topics, but not too much. Nor has there been much uploaded in the way of samples, demos, etc. Anyway, I like it, I think it deserves some good support (which it should get now that Bob has got it in his stable), and I would like to see this be a busy topic. sSo dive in folks -- let's get this one going. -- Roger ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 2 Mon Nov 02, 1992 W.STEINERT [Wayne] at 21:40 EST My upgrade request & bucks are on the way! I'm sure I'll be bugging you soon... Does the WERCS that comes with BASIC 2 have the GDOS extension? Wayne ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 3 Tue Nov 03, 1992 CBARRON at 03:00 EST The thing about Hisoft Basic that I like is I don't need to remember what tos a program was compiled under and what version of the compiler was used, and I can compile generic basic programs from other platforms with little or ussually no change whatsoever. it is fast and fairly compact for a basic. I will be upgrading shortly, but I have no qualms about it. It does deserve a little more support from its users. Perhaps now that upgrade path and aquiring path has improved there will be more sales and users of it. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 4 Tue Nov 03, 1992 CBARRON at 03:01 EST Wayne... WERCS is a resource file editor. What 'GDOS' extension are you referring to??? Perhaps you are wondering if BASIC 2 supports gdos?? I do not know i still have the old version of the professional basic. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 5 Wed Nov 04, 1992 HISOFT at 13:23 EST I think Wayne is refering to the old WERCS+ product that we have. This was basically the standard WERCS package together with GDOS and a leaflet describing some of the programming side of the original GDOS. As such its a bit out of date. This isn't included in HiSoft BASIC 2 - you get a version of WERCS just for use with HiSoft BASIC. When SpeedoGDOS comes out we intend add library calls for this to the HiSoft BASIC 2 package. The existing package already has the core routines you need to use the original GDOS (detecting that its there, openning a physical workstation, loading fonts - that sort of thing). Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 6 Thu Nov 05, 1992 J.SPIEGEL [Joe] at 20:30 EST I just completed my first Hisoft BASIC program that uses resource files (It's in the library, although it won't be of much interest unless you have an X10 Powerhouse home controller). I was wondering if it was possible to compile the resource files into the program. I know it is possible with other languages. I really like the toolkit provided with version 2. I never quite got the handle on resource files before. The toolkit makes things easy. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 7 Thu Nov 05, 1992 J.SIEBEN [Mike] at 22:39 EST I was hoping to see a feature synopsys rundown of this product by now. Oh well then, a few questions. How does this compare to GFA? How clean (no tricks, illegal stuff) does it compile? Does it use line numbers or labels? How is the editor? An idle GFAer Mike ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 8 Fri Nov 06, 1992 CBARRON at 07:08 EST Mike..... Well, I don't have version 2 but if it is downward compatible to version 1.x then: It compiled clean legal tos independent code with 1.x, I see no reason for a backslide in this department. The code is reasonably fast and legal. It uses line #'s and or labels, functions and subroutines and all the standard structured programning statements. Most of my original hisoft basic code uses neither labels or line #'s, just structured programming statements and subroutines/functions. It compiles with few changes ST basic, Microsoft QuickBasic (some version not necc. the abs. latest from MS). Old style MSbasic. The editor did in 1.x did no syntax checking so that code can be entered into the editor and converted without a zillion syntax errors. It did and should integrate the whole process making error correction 'fairly easy'. Came with a profiler and other nice tools. I can only guess that version 2.x is only better. You might look under the uploader HISOFT for press releases about their products. The should be a file describing at least the changes from 1.x to 2.x. I have had both gfa and hisoft basic. Hisoft basic is the one that I still use. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 10 Sat Nov 07, 1992 J.SPIEGEL [Joe] at 12:18 EST Here's some information obtained from the HiSoft BASIC, version 2 "Product Information Sheet" extended and re-designed user interface with multi-window editor, integrated tools, full shell control, etc. [The editor allows 6 windows, including a compiler message window. The "Tools" menu is configurable to allow external program launching.] resource construction set [WERCS] and debugger [MonSTB] included in the package closer compatibility with Microsoft QuickBASIC including new language features such as STATIC arrays complete high level GEM toolbox, including full source code in BASIC [the toolbox is a set of BASIC programs that can be "included" in your source code. These provide easy access to GEM calls through BASIC subprograms and functions.] extensive support for the new Atari TT and MegaSTE computers pre-tokenization of source code for increased compilation speed re-written documentation with wide-ranging tutorials and an extended technical reference profiler for increasing the execution speed of your finished programs I've been using the program for a few weeks now and I am very impressed with both its design and performance. When I recompiled some of my older (version 1.3) programs, the resulting code was more compact, even with all of the safety and debugging features turned on. The only minor irritation that I have found so far is after a program is "run" from memory. When the editor comes back up, the window is restored to the location that was in view prior to running the program, but the vertical slider is at the top of the bar. The window has to be scrolled to get the slider to appear in the correct position. The bottom line is that I would highly recommend the upgrade to this version. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 11 Mon Nov 09, 1992 HISOFT at 13:39 EST Joe, I'm glad you like HiSoft BASIC 2. It is possible to embed resources into HiSoft BASIC programs but its not straight forward. You could use the resource de-compiler that comes with Lattice C 5.5, write a few functions to return the addresses of the dialogs in assemble, assemble the code that this produces and them with your BASIC program with the Lattice linker. This is something that we hope to make easier at some point in the future. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 12 Mon Nov 09, 1992 W.STEINERT [Wayne] at 22:32 EST C Barron, I wasn't very clear... I had heard that there was a new WERCS with a GDOS toolkit. I have the other one. Hi! Well, Hi-Soft BASIC 2 arrived in the mail today..... WOW! It's nice. I won't go through the new features because someone here already has, but I had to post here because I don't know any bit heads where I live so when I explain my excitement they roll their eyes. :-) There's a few things I really like about Hi-Soft BASIC, and 2 is even better. I like the fact that you can create your own libraries. If this language becomes popular people could create 'extensions' for it easily. I also like the ability to 'Include' other source when compiling. I use DevPac a lot and miss that ability with most Basics. I also like the fact that GEM,AES,GEMDOS and other calls are used instead of basic statements and functions whenever possible. It really makes the transition between assembly and basic easier. The new editor is GREAT! It has many new features, and the ability to have up to seven window is cool. It's nice to be able to peek at an 'included' file if you're not quite sure what's in it. I've only used it one day and there's things I wouldn't want to give up! I became a 1/2 convert from using GFA for basic to Hi-Soft about 2 months ago, now I'm fully converted. Enough rambling! If you like version 1, you'll LOVE version 2! Thanks for letting me share my excitement... I HAD to tell someone..... Rat Fink (Wayne) ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 13 Tue Nov 10, 1992 HISOFT at 13:26 EST Joe. I tried to emulate that editor scroll bar glitch after running with the current 2.02 release and I couldn't do so. Which version do you have? Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 14 Tue Nov 10, 1992 DRAGONWARE [Chris] at 21:45 EST Dave I am doing some small util programs and need to put a directory in a STRING$() can I do this with Hisoft Basic 2 and if so which Command. I tried the Files command but it will not redirect to a STRING(). Chris ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 15 Wed Nov 11, 1992 W.STEINERT [Rat Fink] at 00:21 EST Umm... Is the WERCS included with BASIC 2 the same as the 'stand alone' WERCS except that you cannot choose a language? I ask this because I already own WERCS and use it for DevPac and want to know if I really need both of them on my drive.... One more question: I'm becoming more familiar with the PATH environment variable since I've gotten the Portfolio, which uses DOS (Dumb Old-fashioned System). My paths are long - ie. 'E:\HI_SOFT.2\SOURCE\ or E:\HI_SOFT.2\INCLUDE\'. What I want to know is if there's a way to tell the system that all paths are in E:\HI_SOFT.2\. I've seen ';' used in PATH variables.... is that the answer? Say 'E:\HI_SOFT.2\; INCLUDE\,HGT\,SOURCE\ Any help would be great! I must say that I feel BASIC 2 will completely change the way I do 'mixed' programming (Assembly/BASIC). Using the debugger I can now easily pinpoint areas that I may wish to re-write in assembly, and I can also add libraries relatively easily. I've been writing one line programs like 'BEEP', compiling them and then picking them apart, just to see how the compiler works. The manuals are very well-written. The 'User' manual caters to experienced programmers as well as newbies... I didn't fall asleep once! I know I'm going on a bit, but I've always hoped for a contender to GFA BASIC that had many of the features BASIC 2 has. Rat Fink ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 16 Wed Nov 11, 1992 CBARRON at 04:17 EST The standard usage of ;'s in a path variable in the environment is a record separator allowing more than one directory to be on the path, PATH=M:\;E:\LATTICE\BASIC\BIN\;E:\LATTICE\C\BIN\ would search M:\ (a ramdisk),then E:\LATTICE\BASIC\BIN\ and finally E:\LATTICE\C\BIN\ on most shells supporting an environment so that the command M:\foo E:\LATTICE\BASIC\BIN\foo E:\LATTICE\C\BIN\foo appending the executable extensions to the resulting file name. first one found is used, ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 17 Wed Nov 11, 1992 J.SPIEGEL [Joe] at 20:10 EST Dave, I have version 2.02 of BASIC (Editor release 2.27). Whenever I am editing a program and then "run" it, the cursor and view are restored when I get back to the editor, but the slider is always displayed at the top. I have to click in the slider area or on one of the arrows to get it to reposition itself properly. If I just compile the program, the editir is properly restored. I am running TOS 1.04 on a Mega ST. Chris, If I understand what you are looking for, just use the DIR2STR example program supplied with HiSoft BASIC. Instead of appending a CHR$(10) and CHR$(13) to each returned filename to create one long string, just assign the filename to an element in your string array. Rat Fink, Dave may have to verify this, but since WERCS is still a stand-alone program (the editor only shells to it), there should be no problem using the full version instead. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 18 Wed Nov 11, 1992 W.STEINERT [Rat Fink] at 21:56 EST Dave & John, I have Version 2.02 on TOS 1.62 (STe) and *do* experience the 'scroll bar glitch'. I also have a TOS 1.04 (STf) machine that I'll check out. It doesn't bother me though. Chris, There's a DEMO program on disk one or two that 'puts a directory in a string'. They must've read your mind! :-) I'm pretty sure you can work out something with it... Rat Fink ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 19 Thu Nov 12, 1992 HISOFT at 13:32 EST Chris, There isn't a single command to read a directory into a string, you have to do it via the GEMDOS fsfirst/fsnext; like Rat Fink says there's an example of this sort of thing in the manual. Rat Fink, Yep, the WERCS included in BASIC 2 is the same as the standard issue except for the restriction on the language. Note however that you'll need version 1.24 of WERCS if you want to make it resident under the BASIC 2 editor (or the Devpac 3 or Lattice editors for that matter). Re. editor, whoops - it looks like I was using an internal version that still claims to be 2.02! At least we know it'll be fixed for the next release. Dave N. P.S. its best to avoid using periods (.) in folder names as some software can get confused by these. (Even _ causes problems under TOS 1.0) ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 20 Thu Nov 12, 1992 DRAGONWARE [Chris] at 17:57 EST Many Thanks Folks I am Uploading a TreuBasic to Hisoft Basic converter as a PRG this weekend I will include the source as well. Chris ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 21 Fri Nov 13, 1992 CBARRON at 01:44 EST Very interesting I have a good collection of true basic routines, when I get around to upgrade I can use them again.... ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 22 Fri Nov 13, 1992 D.LIVINGST11 [ErnestBovine] at 05:54 EST It's not too hard to embed a resource file in Basic, if you can include the binary rsc file someplace, like INLINE in "that other Basic." You have to read a bunch of words from the 18-word rsc-file header to find offsets to each part of the file (objects, tedinfos, array of pointers to the strings, etc.) You have to do rsc_obfix on every object, and for each object (and tedinfo etc) that needs an absolute pointer in its ob_spec field, you have to figure out what that pointer is. The ob_specs in the rsc file on disk contain array indices, not addresses. I've got some GFA code around here someplace... ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 23 Fri Nov 13, 1992 CBARRON at 06:32 EST It is my understanding that this basic will link external modules. If I am right there are routines available to do the imbedding almost automatically. Fairly simple to use is rsc2src with the devpac support code as an example, if you have an assembler. No arithmetic at all just a fix_up routine and some easy to use access vectors which a long peek or equivalent would do. I assume there are 16 and 32 bit ints in this basic. If there is an inline those approaches could be used, but if not and an assembler is available, there is code in these libs to compile rsc files to assembler source. Rsc2src's code is more compact than a raw copy of the rsc file. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 24 Sat Nov 14, 1992 DRAGONWARE [Chris] at 17:08 EST Problem LET FREMEM=FRE(-1) returns a -84321 value WHY!??? Chris ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 25 Sun Nov 15, 1992 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 10:40 EST Chris, FRE(0) will return the next block of heap space available and FRE(-1) will return the GEMDOS (system) free space. The heap space stores variables and such and GEMDOS free space is what is not being used by the program. HISOFT, I have a few questions. I currently program in GFA Basic. I love the language and have come to really like a lot of features. However, I am frustrated with the way things go (uncompatibility with new TOS versions and long times between upgrades). I have thought about trying HS Basic 2.0. I currently have the 1.x version and there were a few things that have kept me from moving over and wanted to ask about them here. In GFA I can just use a variable and it is assumed to be global. I don't have to define each variable I use and if I want it to be LOCAL, I can define it that way. I realize this may seem to be the easy way out but, a program I am currently working on is over 400K in source code and variables out the butt. Will there be in the future, the ability to use a variable without declaring it and the program assume it to be global? Will there be the ability to FOLD procedures and functions so that only the name of the procedure or function is show? This make editing a breeze and saves a lot of time looking through the 20,000+ lines of code. Will it automatically indent FOR..NEXT loops, IF...ENDIF, etc.? Does it have or will it have active error checking as you enter the line? These are just a few questions about 2.x. I have the HS Basic Pro version 1.x. I didn't play with it very long because I have become accustomed to the short time and ease of editing my code. These are just a few things that keep me from switching but, if these items are there or will be added, I may just reconcider. It also depends on other factors but I will not bring that up here. Thanks for any inforamtion you can provide. I have heard a lot of good things about HS Basic 2.x but, I don't want to spend the money on something I may not use. Thanks. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 26 Mon Nov 16, 1992 HISOFT at 13:25 EST Re embedding resource files: HiSoft BASIC 2 doesn't have an INLINE statement; Carl's method would work but you would need Devpac 3, as the linkable code that HiSoft BASIC uses needs the Clink linker, as supplied with Devpac 3 and Lattice C, but not with HiSoft BASIC 2. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 27 Mon Nov 16, 1992 DRAGONWARE [Chris] at 15:37 EST Dave: Why am i getting a NEGITIVE number with a FRE(-1) What I need to know is HOWMUCH RAM is installed in the current computer running the program. HELP! Chris ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 28 Tue Nov 17, 1992 CBARRON at 02:36 EST HISOFT - you caught my curiousity, with Clink, is there a way to get some LC5 routines to use the BASIC routines for double precision arithmetic rather than those of LC5, so if I have a C routine that does something I don't have two or three different copies of the same function such as software double multiply. I am guessing that it still uses IEEE for double precision. I have some number cruncher routines I might want in a basic shell. Might need bindings but they should be easier than converting the library to basic. Also rsc2src.ttp produces a file where all the labels begin with a period to be local, I assume this has not changed from devpac2 to devpac3. The labels for the assembler code are machine generated, but local variables makes them super safe... A language 'junkie' I guess, but I have all of the above products in earier versions and will be upgrading shortly. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 29 Tue Nov 17, 1992 HISOFT at 13:20 EST Chris, Like Wayne says FRE(-1) just returns the GEMDOS free memory. It works fine for me here. Wayne, The default for undefined variables remains STATIC (i.e. not global). There are certainly no plans to change this. If you use DIM SHARED in your main program then you can automatically use the global version in all sub-programs and functions. The only BASIC specific part of the editor is that it can upper case your reserved words for you. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 30 Tue Nov 17, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 18:27 EST If you're using a word-sized variable for the return from FRE(-1), chances are about 50/50 that you'll get a negative number. Make sure you're using a long word. John ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 31 Tue Nov 17, 1992 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 22:36 EST Thanks Dave. Do you plan to add auto-indent and procedure folding in the future? How does HS Basic 2.0 (or can it) handle modular programming? What I mean is, if I have a main program with variables set to SHARED, GLOBAL, etc. and I want to run a module (another compiled program), is there a way to easily pass (or use) those variables in the module? Say I want to build a library of routines/procedures (uncompiled), is there or will there be a way to INCLUDE those and the compiler merge them in. That way, if I make a change to that routine, I can just recompile the main source codes and automatically pull that routine in. It helps in that you don't have to change the routine in all your modules/programs. Same question for compiled routines. If I create a routine and compile it (not link it), can it be added to the LIBRARY and called from within a program as a function/procedure? Thanks for the info. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 32 Wed Nov 18, 1992 HISOFT at 13:21 EST Carl, Re maths routines: Interesting idea there; yep HiSoft BASIC does use double IEEE format; but the way numbers are passed is different to the C method so it wouldn't work. Re local labels in Devpac: Yep labels being with a dot are still local (by default). Chris, John's idea sounds possible - you want to store that width in a long or a single not a standard integer. Dave N. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 33 Thu Nov 19, 1992 DRAGONWARE [Chris] at 00:10 EST Yup I tried it and FREMEM&=fre(-1) works Thanks folks this multi level varables is new to me in basic's. I am Uploading a TrueBasic to HSB2 PRG and True basic source/HS2 source as well It will be PD so enjoy. Chris ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 34 Thu Nov 19, 1992 HISOFT at 13:16 EST Wayne, Syntax directed auto-indent (we already have 'pure' auto-indent) and procedure folding aren't something we have planned for the short/medium term. As far as building modular programs, there are two principle facilities: 1. Include files at compile time as you describe 2. You can build a pre- tokenised file of often used procedures/functions. This speeds up compilation times considerably. You can't share variables accross separate executable files, nor can you write LIBRARYs (in the HiSoft BASIC 1 sense) in BASIC - only assembler. Dave N. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 35 Sat Nov 21, 1992 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 12:56 EST Thanks Dave, the modular building sounds pretty good and is close enough to what I was looking for. I do wish HISOFT would reconsider the procedure folding thing or even something similiar. It makes life so much easier. I may have to look into HS Basic 2.0 after all. What is the upgrade price from HS Basic Pro? ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 36 Sat Nov 21, 1992 ORA.TECH at 19:15 EST Wayne - The upgrade from HS Basic Pro to HS Basic 2 is $64 ($59 + $5 S&H) Bob @ ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 37 Sat Nov 28, 1992 DRAGONWARE [Chris] at 15:52 EST I am doing a D/A and need to allow the D/A to interupt a program when a Timer reaches zero. I also need it to check the timer at least once a minute. What calls should I use in HB2 to accomplish this Constant Reading of a Clock in the D/A and not intrupt the current program until it reaches Zero? Chris ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 38 Mon Dec 14, 1992 J.KOSIOREK1 [Jack.K] at 23:52 EST Is there a way to find the base page address of a program in HiSoft BASIC? Is it possible - is an assembler routine necessary? Would it be possible with without an assembler routine? If it is possible, what are the specifics to accomplish this. Jack ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 39 Thu Dec 17, 1992 HISOFT at 13:17 EST Jack.K, The current base page is one of the entries in the SYSTAB table. See your manual under SYSTAB. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 40 Thu Dec 17, 1992 DRAGONWARE [Chris] at 15:25 EST Dave What command do I use to get a VOLUME LABEL ? Chris ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 41 Sun Dec 20, 1992 J.KOSIOREK1 [Jack.K] at 21:54 EST Thanks Dave. I thought I read it somewhere in one of those 2 manuals. I have another question and I bet you can lead me in the right direction. If I put a dialog box in a window what is the general procedure to scroll it and move it around the screen? When I did this the location on the screen where the radio buttons were displayed were offset from where I actually had to click the mouse. I'm sure I am missing something but I can't spot it in the code. Jack.K ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 42 Mon Dec 21, 1992 DRAGONWARE [Chris] at 12:56 EST Jack you must do a form_dial after the move to tell the system where the new locations are for the buttons etc. Chris ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 43 Mon Dec 21, 1992 HISOFT at 13:36 EST Chris, You need to use fsfirst from the GEMDOS library to get the volume label.The values for the attribute parameter are given under the fattrib function. Dave N. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 44 Mon Dec 21, 1992 DRAGONWARE [Chris] at 22:53 EST Many thanks Dave!! ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 45 Sat Dec 26, 1992 J.KOSIOREK1 [Jack.K] at 20:10 EST Chris Thanks for the info about the form_dial. I will go back and check the code but I believe you are right. I don't remember doing it. Jack ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 46 Tue Dec 29, 1992 DRAGONWARE [Chris] at 18:50 EST If you folk are intrested I uploaded my routine for reading the free and used space on any drive. it is file # 27121 "FREEUSED.BAS" Chris ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 47 Thu Jan 21, 1993 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 14:43 EST I have HS BAsic can I upgrade to HSBII? If so, how? ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 48 Fri Jan 22, 1993 DRAGONWARE [Chris R.] at 15:13 EST I am At present doing an ACC and I have to call a file selector and then the RSC for the ACC and the RSC draws but then dissapears where the File selector was What did I do wrong?? Chris ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 49 Sun Jan 24, 1993 ORA.TECH at 01:21 EST Kenne, You can upgrade to HiSoft Basic 2 by sending your original disk and $69 to: Oregon Research Associates 16200 SW Pacific Hwy Suite 162 Tigard, OR 97224 Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 50 Tue Jan 26, 1993 HISOFT at 13:22 EST Chris, You need to put a window "behind" any dialog boxes that you ACC displays. That will stop the application (or the desktop) underneath getting a redraw event when the file selector goes away. Dave N. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 51 Wed Jan 27, 1993 J.HUGHES23 [Jack ] at 00:05 EST Bob -- Did you receive my upgrade request? Been awhile since I sent for it. I took the photocopy route for the disks. [( ) Jack ( )] ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 52 Wed Jan 27, 1993 DRAGONWARE [Chris R.] at 14:25 EST Thank You Dave can you give some code examples?? Chris ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 53 Thu Jan 28, 1993 ORA.TECH at 22:44 EST I am sorry Jack, we have no record of receiving your upgrade request. No invoice has been processed and It's not in the in box. I'll check around. Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 54 Fri Jan 29, 1993 HISOFT at 13:26 EST Chris, Unfortunately I'm a bit busy finishing off TruePaint at the moment to do an example but qall you need to do is to open a bro all window at the same co- ords as your dialog box and then close it when your dialog box goes away. Dave N. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 55 Sat Jan 30, 1993 J.HUGHES23 [Jack ] at 17:37 EST Bob -- Well at least we know something.. I habitually use the envelopes received with "Junk Mail" and found out the hard way that the written address does _not_ mean a thing to the USPS. Mail is delivered according to the little lines at the bottom of the envelope, and the devil take the hindmost! I ususally mark them out, and may have screwed up this time. I'll stop payment on the check and start over again come Monday. Thanks [( ) Jack ( )] ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 56 Thu Feb 04, 1993 J.HUGHES23 [Jack ] at 00:29 EST Bob -- After the snafu, the upgrade arrived today, Wed. Thanks for the prompt service. I'll get a check in the mail tomorrow, I hope, for the shipping fee. --You didn't tell me about that, . [( ) Jack ( )] ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 57 Sat Feb 06, 1993 D.SEBERG [IceBerg] at 00:55 EST Hello (to all you experienced programmers out there), I have just recently started down the path of HSB-2. I've taken upon myself the task of rewriting my personal libraries from the OTHER well known basic to HSB-2 as a learning experience. I've kind of gotten stuck on how to clear the keyboard buffer using HSB-2. Using the OTHER basic I could clear the keyboard buffer with the following code: PROCEDURE buffer_clear LPOKE XBIOS(14,1)+6,0 RETURN I've tried various usages of: FUNCTION iorec&(BYVAL devno%) but have met with no success. I'd appreciate any guidance that anyone can throw my way. Thanks, Dave ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 58 Sat Feb 06, 1993 D.SEBERG [IceBerg] at 01:37 EST I think I've answered my own question from my previous post, although it's kind of hard to test this sub program outside of an actual application. Anyways, does this seem like the correct way to clear the keyboard buffer? LIBRARY "xbios" ' CALL buffer_clear ' ' Sub Program to clear keyboard buffer SUB buffer_clear POKEL iorec&(1)+6,0 END SUB Thanks again for any insight. Dave ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 59 Tue Feb 09, 1993 HISOFT at 13:30 EST IceBerg, That's certainly the equivalent of your GFA program. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 60 Thu Feb 11, 1993 DRAGONWARE [Chris R.] at 15:21 EST I am presently doing a metafile utility and need to set vm_pagesize(handle,FNAME$) can I do this in hsb2? Chris ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 61 Mon Feb 15, 1993 HISOFT at 13:26 EST Chris, You need to do your own vm_pagesize call using the old ST BASIC VDISYS calls. If it weren't for the fact that I'm in a mad panic finishing off TruePaint, I'd do you some sample code. Dave N. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 62 Mon Feb 15, 1993 DRAGONWARE [Chris R.] at 15:26 EST Thank You Dave that gives me a place to look and try ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 63 Thu Feb 18, 1993 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 22:08 EST This is about Hisoft Basic version 1.3, but I hope I can get an answer here anyway. I wrote a short program to do some character translation in a 2.5 megabyte file. (Some field delimiters in a text file needed to be changed so that dbMan would recognize them.) Initially, I input the text in 10k chunks on the assumption that minimizing disk access would improve overall performance. Then I noticed that the execution slowed down significantly as the translation loop worked through the 10k string. So I reduced the size of the chunks to 2.5k and improved overall performance by a factor of three (5 hrs processing time vs. 15 hrs.) Here's the nut of the translation loop: i = 1 while i <= buf_len& in_chr$ = mid$(in_buffer$, i, 1) if in_chr$ = chr$(13) or in_chr$ = chr$(10) then out_buffer$ = out_buffer$ + """" + chr$(13) + chr$(10) + """" if mid$(in_buffer$, i+1, 1) = chr$(10) then incr i end if elseif in_chr$ = "|" then out_buffer$ = out_buffer$ + """" + "," + """" else out_buffer$ = out_buffer$ + in_chr$ end if incr i wend Would you please tell me why reducing the size of in_buffer$ improved the performance? I suspect that either mid$() or incr slow 'way down when the numbers get big; which one? Is there a better way to accomplish this function? Thanks. |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 64 Fri Feb 19, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 01:50 EST Robert, MID$ is definately a time consumer. I have found that when dealing with long strings, it is better to access the information directly from memory than using MID$. Also, if you can get away from building up the string before outputting it, it will also save you some time. I am not sure why it slows dowm after it gets into the string. Other languages do this also. The test I did showed a slow down by direct access also. Using direct access mode, you could increase the string to about 5K and still come out way ahead. The test I did came up with a saving of .56 seconds per 2.5K block. The best thing (with a file this large) would to either BLOAD it all into a buffer allocated with MALLOC (if possible) or read it into a buffer using FNfread& and then convert it using the direct way. You could also copy info in blocks from the buffer to the string if need be. Time consuming items are, using MID$, building a string up, reading the file using INPUT and writing the file using PRINT. Also, if every line does not contain a CHR$(13) and/or CHR$(10), then you could check the string to see if it contains those character first by using INSTR (IF INSTR(in_chr$, CHR$(13)) or INSTR(in_chr$, CHR$(10)) THEN..) Now, what I mean by direct mode is you read the info in the string directly from the memory location of each character in the string. When you do this, then the characters are numbers instead of letters. You would have to convert the numbers back to characters using CHR$(x). This may sound like it takes more time but, it doesn't. Also, you have to start at the location returned by SADD(). You could also do away with in_chr$. Example: i = 0 while i <= buf_len& IF PEEKB(SADD(in_buffer$)+i)=13 or PEEKB(SADD(in_buffer$)+i)=10 THEN out_buffer$ = out_buffer$ + """" + CHR$(13) + CHR$(10) + """" IF PEEKB(SADD(in_buffer$)+i+1) = 10 THEN INCR i END IF ELSEIF PEEKB(SADD(in_buffer$)+i) = 124 out_buffer$ = out_buffer$ + """" + "," + """" ELSE out_buffer$ = out_buffer$ + CHR$(PEEKB(SADD(in_buffer$)+i)) END IF INCR i WEND The reason I use SADD each time is because of the way strings move around, I find it a lot safer to do it in the command. It may take a small amount of extra time but, it is safer. With you building up a string during the loop, there is a chance that in_buffer$ would get moved. I am sure there are other tricks and I know a few more but, I don't know the full situation. Sorry for the length of the response but, I kinda got carried away. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 65 Sat Feb 20, 1993 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 21:55 EST Wayne, thanks, that's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. I understand accessing the characters directly in memory, and I could even see loading the input directly into a static mmalloc'd memory buffer. How would I "get away from building up the string before outputting it"? By writing the translated characters to a different memory block? They can't just be transposed in place. Hmm. Copy info in blocks from the input to the output -- There's an idea. Too bad this was pretty much a one-shot utility -- I probably won't need it again for a _long_ time, so I probably won't take the time to improve and test. But I'll save this message with the source code, and if I do need it again... Thanks, |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 66 Sun Feb 21, 1993 CBARRON at 01:36 EST Use of 'pointers' to the static arrays (aren't arrays of integers statically allocated anymore) and updating them as you go along is another 'speed' hint. It wont matter if you store the buffer in an int array if all accesses are of the form x= peekb(pointer&) x = peekb(pointer&):incr pointer&: incr bytes_read if bytes_read = too_many then goto get_new_block if x=13 or x = 10 then if x = 10 then incr pointer& endif pokeb out_pointer&, 34:incr out_pointer& pokeb out_pointer&, 10:incr out_pointer& pokeb out_pointer&, 34:incr out_pointer& etc... ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 67 Mon Feb 22, 1993 HISOFT at 13:29 EST Here's an example of a metafile sub opcode binding using VDISYS defint a-z library "gemvdi" vm_pagesize 200,300 sub vm_pagesize(byval page_width,byval page_height) pokew intin,0 'sub-op_code for vm_pagesize pokew intin+2,page_width pokew intin+4,page_height pokew contrl,5 pokew contrl+2,0 pokew contrl+6,3 pokew contrl+10,99 vdisys 1 end sub Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 68 Mon Feb 22, 1993 HISOFT at 13:29 EST Robert, MID$ isn't that slow in itself and if you aer selecting a single character it takes the same time regardless of the size of the sting. Your original program is generating a lot of temporay strings and hence a lot of garbage. You are also creating a lot of garbage as you fill up your output string; I guess that with a smaller input buffer you are getting fewer garbage collects and thus its going much quicker. To avoid generating as much garbage tou can allocate the output buffer to be a fixed size and then use MID$(out_buffer$,j)=in_chr$ over whatever to store your strings in the output buffer without generating termporary strings. Wayne's method has successfully removed the garbage that your input was generating. It is essential that you use SADD rather than storing the address as this will move when a garbage collect occurs. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. . ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 69 Tue Feb 23, 1993 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 21:59 EST Ah, thanks, Dave. I didn't think about the memory management that must be going on as the run-time dynamically allocates the output string. Can I allocate the output buffer ahead of time and still treat it as a string? Something like output$ = space(1024)? |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 70 Thu Feb 25, 1993 HISOFT at 13:24 EST Robert Thats precisely the technique that the BASIC compiler itself uses. Dave N. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 71 Tue Mar 02, 1993 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 00:57 EST Is there any way using print statements to get a status number to overwrite itself? I want to show progress through a file, so I'm printing file positions on the screen at intervals. The only problem is that each number prints on a new line and eventually the screen starts scrolling. I'm using the ";" at the end of the print statement, but I can't get the cursor back to the beginning of the line without causing a linefeed. Any ideas? |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 72 Tue Mar 02, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 01:30 EST Robert, Try using the LOCATE command. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 73 Tue Mar 02, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 05:14 EST Robert, Sure there are lots of ways to do the positioning. Look at things like Position or Locate, or just store the length of the number you are printing and then do that many backspaces before printing the next one... That looks pretty good. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 74 Wed Mar 03, 1993 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 01:37 EST I tried the backspace trick; it didn't work. I'll try locate, thanks. |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 75 Wed Mar 03, 1993 DRAGONWARE [Chris R.] at 20:13 EST Robert .. Make a RSC that you can place the text in and use a form that is updated by a setptext and a redraw that looks great if you need demo code look at the scroll demo i uploaded the object draw routines will work if you remove the Form DO command Chris ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 76 Sun Mar 28, 1993 J.KRZYSZTOW [JEFFREY] at 11:29 EST I have an issue of Atari ST Review that has v1.xxx of HiSoft BASIC that says I can upgrade to version 2 by sending 49.95 pounds. Is there anyway I can get this upgrade through Oregon Research? If so, please tell me how. I would really like to be able to get version 2. Thanks Jeffrey ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 77 Tue Apr 06, 1993 ORA.TECH at 01:05 EDT Yes you can upgrade to HS Basic 2 from the magazine version by sending the magazine disk and $80 to: Oregon Research Associates 16200 SW Pacific Hwy Suite 162 Tigard, OR 97224 Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 78 Wed Apr 07, 1993 DRAGONWARE [Chris R.] at 18:39 EDT Has anyone made a IMG->MAC routine that they may want to share?? Chris Roberts ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 79 Thu Apr 08, 1993 DHAMM [DAVE HAMM] at 22:58 EDT Question can I upgrade from HiSoft Basic Professional? I have the Michtron version 1.23 Dave Hamm ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 80 Fri Apr 09, 1993 ORA.TECH at 22:01 EDT Dave, Yes you can. Just send your original disk and $69+$5 S&H to: Oregon Research 16200 S.W. Pacific Hwy., Suite 162 Tigard, OR 97224 to receive your upgrade from HiSoft Basic Professional to HS Basic 2. The upgrade includes the entire package with 3 new disks and 2 manuals with over 800 pages of documentation. Best regards, Bob Luneski ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 81 Sun Apr 11, 1993 DANNY.M [Yooperman] at 11:31 EDT I seem to recall an article in one of the British magazines of several months back announcing the arrival of HS BASIC 2 (HSB2) as saying that it would be packaged with a very comprehensive manual that acutally taught HSB2. Is that true? If so, does your generous upgrade offer extend to registered owerns of HS BASIC that was marketed by MichTron? ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 82 Sun Apr 11, 1993 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 17:13 EDT Just to refresh some of our memories, what are the new features in version 2 that make it worth seventy bucks? |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 83 Sun Apr 11, 1993 J.HUGHES23 [Jack ] at 20:15 EDT Dave N -- While I shall freely admit that I haven't RTFM from cover to cover would you pls help on this problem? To wit: I have a program that is to save numbers in a sequential fashion via: for i=1 to n input "",S(i) next and then later store that data, along with other. This worked OK with HiSoft Pro, but after conversion to HS2 (really all I had to do was take out the "FN's" from FNform_alert) the program does not want to work. Another prg without multiple inputs works fine under HS2. Example: the number 65 is stored as "5.330973694061278D-315", which of course, the rest of my program does not want to deal with. [ Probably a good move! :-) ] Would you point me in the rite direction for the answer? Also, when I do an Alt-X to run from HS2, it goes thru a new compilation, even tho it has already been compiled, _and then_ does not run! Obviously my lack of reading time is hurting... :-) [( ) Jack ( )] ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 84 Sat Jul 03, 1993 J.HUGHES23 [Jack ] at 20:58 EDT I'm _still_ waiting for a reply to my question posted last April! [( ) Jack ( )] ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 85 Sat Jul 03, 1993 ORA [Bob] at 22:51 EDT It most certainly was eaten by Aladin by now, could you repost to jog our collective memories :-) Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 86 Sun Jul 04, 1993 J.HUGHES23 [Jack ] at 19:02 EDT Bob - Its MSG #83 and its still there, just checked! If necessary I'll repost, but it ain't all that short and rather not. [( ) Jack ( )] ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 87 Mon Jul 05, 1993 DHAMM [DAVE HAMM] at 22:40 EDT Help! I'm trying to use the tutorial in the manuel. The hgt1.bas example, I'm getting a Error:108 Function or sub-program in Library " Gemaes at line 21 in file G:\hbasic\hgt\toolbox.bas Can anyone tell me where to start looking for the problem. I'm using HiSoft Basic TT 2.02 24 March 92 Dave Hamm ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 88 Wed Jul 07, 1993 HISOFT at 13:18 EDT Jack, Are you using a pre-2.02 version of the TT compiler? That might explain the INPUT problem. If you have compile to disk selected the editor won't run your program on Alt- X it'll just compile it. DAve Nutkins, HiSoft. P.S. Sorry for the delay - I overlooked your original message. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 89 Wed Jul 07, 1993 HISOFT at 13:19 EDT Dave Hamm, That error 108 is function or sub-program redefined in the library. It sounds like some how you've got two LIBRARY "GEMAES" statements getting parsed. Perhaps you have the library in a pre-tokenised file and you are including it. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 90 Wed Jul 07, 1993 J.HUGHES23 [Jack ] at 23:45 EDT Dave -- To the best of knowledge I'm using everything that came with my upgrade to v2.?... As to the compile to disk part ?? What I did is what I had always done, but I'll check it out tomorrow. Stay tuned. But even so, why the change? If it is? It worked fine before!! And I do NOT have a TT, just an old 1040STf, with a few minor upgrades!!!! ie TOS 1.4 and 2.5M ram. [( ) Jack ( )] ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 91 Thu Jul 08, 1993 DHAMM [DAVE HAMM] at 02:41 EDT Thank you, thats exactly what I was trying to do. Dave Hamm ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 92 Fri Jul 09, 1993 HISOFT at 13:15 EDT Jack, Oh well that can't be the problem with your program not working then. Could you cut down your program to something small that shos the problem and send it to me via GEnie mail and I'll investigate. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 93 Sat Jul 10, 1993 J.HUGHES23 [Jack ] at 20:47 EDT Dave -- At this point I am extremely perplexed, confused etc. Prior to trying to cut down the program to the problem area I re-compiled, just to make sure what was what. First, I think I owe you and Bob an apology for causing much ado about nothing. Second, what I said happened in my msg #83 did in fact occur, last April. Third, I can't get it to reproduce. :-) Maybe what I should have done is rerun the program before doing a re-compile. Unfortunately I did not and apparently it over-writes if there is a PRG of the same name in the same file area. The _new_ re-compiled PRG performs as expected!! If memory serves I have another program which exhibited similiar problems. I will pursue that thread. Maybe all it takes is a re-compile!? Fourth, I tried to compile the revised HS2 version with the HS Pro compiler but it did not want to do the job. Undoubtedly due to the deleted "FN's" in form_alert. Fifth, there are only two bytes difference in the two versions. With HS Pro - 31873 bytes, with HS v2.02 31871 bytes. Again, my apologies. [( ) Jack ( )] ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 94 Sun Jul 11, 1993 J.HUGHES23 [Jack ] at 16:27 EDT Dave -- Back to square one. I do have a problem! Just picked the wrong program to look at. Reducing it to e-mailable length may prove to be difficult. [( ) Jack ( )] ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 95 Sun Jul 11, 1993 J.HUGHES23 [Jack ] at 19:31 EDT Dave -- In the process of reducing the problem to a managable size I wondered about _"Defdbl a-z"_ ... On a hunch I disabled it. And wouldn't you know, it save the input numbers. Defdbl worked just fine with HS Pro. And works just fine in HS 2.02 with the PRG I _thought_ was the problem. But with the one at hand, it records numbers which look like they are Log base "e" in origin. To obtain the accuracy desired I determined that Defdbl was necessary. I shall pursue this and try and find out if leaving it out entirely works or what. Some of the desired saves are calculated results and may/maynot come right! Any thoughts? [( ) Jack ( )] ps: Did get it a small (500 b) size. I'll e-mail if you like. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 96 Tue Jul 13, 1993 HISOFT at 13:25 EDT Jack, I can only think of two things: 1.You had something very strange in your AUTO folder or DA when you tried before. 2. Your machine's memory was a bit dodgy but its O.K. now. Dave N. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 97 Fri Jul 16, 1993 J.HUGHES23 [Jack ] at 23:43 EDT Dave -- Nothing else seems to be bothered by the AUTO file etc, including at least one other HSPro conversion. Same comment may also apply to the memory. I used a global "defdbl a-z" instruction. Changing to the specific variables had no effect on the problem. I will e-mail what I have isolated the problem to if you'd like. Or alternately via pigeon mail. The latter might be better, as I could perhaps include more info. The prg appears to give correct results w/o _any_ definition of numeric accuracy. Though I did read in the manual, I think, that defsgl (that's single) was standard. Is that correct? Also the time "delay" does not appear to work any more. Can not fimd it in either manual and do not remember where I found it. The ? is moot, as I have made a change to the prg which I like better. Just curious. [( ) Jack ( )] ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 98 Sun Jul 25, 1993 JWC-OEO [Jon] at 19:27 EDT ORA, Your May/June news letter mentioned that there was an upgrade to HiSoft Basic 2 planned that would include Falcon specific documentation. Has this been released yet? Jon ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 99 Wed Jul 28, 1993 ORA [Bob] at 11:55 EDT The Falcon language version upgrades are expected anytime now, Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 100 Sat Sep 18, 1993 J.KOSIOREK1 [Jack.K] at 20:54 EDT Any word on the HiSoft BASIC 2 upgrade? You know the one with FALCON and MultiTOS stuff. Waiting ..... still waiting. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 101 Tue Sep 21, 1993 HISOFT at 13:17 EDT The new version of HiSoft BASIC should arrive late this week here in England but it'll take a while to get across the pond. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 102 Wed Jan 05, 1994 W.JAMES-STEI [Wayne] at 03:53 EST Anyone get their HBASIC 2.10 upgrade yet? I _hope_ mine's on the way. Wayne - Wednesday, January 05, 1994 - 00:55 a.m. PST ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 103 Mon Jan 10, 1994 R.QUEZADA [B-B-Q] at 22:06 EST Where do you get the upgrade to 2.10? How much is it? The basic works great on a Falcon030, but I would like to compile with 68030 instructions. Anyone know if the new upgrade will do that? I know the TT interpreter that came with my 2.0 does that, but it requires a co-processor. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 104 Wed Jan 12, 1994 HISOFT at 13:16 EST I'll leave details of the upgrade pricing to Robb. HiSoft BASIC 2.10 doesn't have a "68030 with no fpu option". The improvements in the code generated would be quite minor compared with the huge improvement that the FPU version gives on such systems. The biggest "win" would be in 32 bit divides - but if your program's speed is dependent on one of those you probably ought to look at recoding the algorithm. There's a whole lot of other stuff in the upgrade though! Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 105 Thu Jan 13, 1994 V.VALENTI at 00:48 EST Could you give me some benchmarks for HiSoft Basic 2.10. I am currently using GFA, but would like to get the most of the Falcon without having to always write my own routines. Is the speed comparable? Vince ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 106 Thu Jan 13, 1994 ORA [Bob] at 11:25 EST Upgrades are available through us at $39 + s/h and proof of ownership. V. 2.10 is fully Falcon compatible and enhanced, and the upgrade comes with a manual addendum. Robb @ ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 107 Thu Jan 13, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 21:50 EST Well, got my Hi-Soft BASIC 2.10 update today, as well as Lattice 5.6. Nice job on both counts! The "Modern Atari Systems Software" book is excellent, and the fact that each item is shown in HB2, LC5 and Devpac 3 makes it even better. If you're using HB2 and have a newer Atari, you should really check out this book. The 2.10 update also has quite a few new additions to the GEM Toolbox, such as Speedo and MiNT support. One thing I need to know more about is the GB function(?). I see it mentioned in the M.A.S.S. book, and I assume it's the Global Parameter Block. I can't find it in either HBASIC manual index, though I see it in reserved words and a small mention in the accessory appendix. I want to check if MultiTOS or Geneva is running, and if so alter the applications name in the desk menu. I've done it in Lattice, but not sure how in BASIC 2. Thanks for any information. Now back to work. Wayne ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 108 Fri Jan 14, 1994 HISOFT at 13:18 EST Vince, Its a while since I've done any benchmarking of HiSoft BASIC vs GFA - the 'journalists' over here were making such stupid comparisions that we stopped quoting them. Broadly you should fine the speed approximately the same - some things will be faster in HiSoft BASIC and some faster in GFA. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 109 Fri Jan 14, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 17:47 EST Vince, I switched over to HI-Soft BASIC 2.10 from GFA for precisely the same reason you want to. I wanted to get more out of my Falcon & I wanted support. I am happy to say I have both with HI-Soft BASIC. I would really recommend that you also pick up the book "Modern Atari System Software", which is also from Hi- Soft and outlines every new system call in HI-Soft BASIC 2.10, Lattice 'C', and Devpac 3. It also has loads of other useful information, such as the Style Guide which outlines suggestions from Atari regarding a standard for user interfaces. HI-Soft BASIC 2.10, with the GEM Toolbox, let's you whip out quick utilities in record time - and they look great with a super interface. Having Pop-ups, windowed objects, etc. is _very_ easy, or you can always go deeper and do it yourself. Another nice thing about HI-Soft BASIC 2.10 is that it is very compatible with Microsoft BASIC, so there's loads of books out there that you can buy that will be relevant. I use HI-Soft BASIC 2.10, and Lattice C as well as other Hi-Soft/Oregon Research products and have to say the support is excellent. Persons from Hi-Soft and Oregon Research are always available on GEnie to answer questions. I was unsure of the switch to HI-Soft BASIC 2 from GFA at first - I had become accustomed to using GFA to whip out my 'quickie' programs - but once I got going I never looked back. Having a multi-window editor, pre-tokenising, _support_ for new machines, etc. is a nice way to go! :-) I know I sound a little excited, but I just got my upgrades, along with the M.A.S.S. book, and now I can really utilize all the new features of my Falcon. BTW, I also highly recommend the book "The Atari Compendium". It has a lot of very useful information in it. See ya, Wayne - Friday, January 14, 1994 - 02:41 p.m. PST ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 110 Fri Jan 14, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 21:54 EST The support from ORA & HISOFT is definately excellent. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 111 Sat Jan 15, 1994 JRH [Roger] at 08:18 EST Dave Nutkins, >There's a whole lot of other stuff in the upgrade though! I have version 2.01, and was not planning to upgrade as I thought the only change was to make HB2 Falcon compatible. If that is not the case I would probably upgrade, since I think it is the best Basic available, and have been using it for several years now. Could you give me an idea of what else has been included. My system is a TT030, 4/16 megs RAM, monochrome monitor. Robb, And what's this about the "Modern Atari Systems Software" book. Is it the "manual addendum" that comes with the upgrade, or is it something that is available separately? Thanks, Roger ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 112 Sat Jan 15, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 16:05 EST Hi, I'm having a small problem with the new AES_version function in Hi-Soft BASIC 2.10 . I want to show the AES version and other machine information in my main help box, but the value returned by: aes=aes_version is 832 on my Falcon. I put a constant value in aes to test the rest of the routine (it puts the version in a F_TEXT in the dialog) and all works fine. Is there a format to the AES version that I'm not aware of? I also need to know about GB. I see it mentioned in the M.A.S.S. book as well as a reserved word in Hi-Soft BASIC, but can't find it in the manual anywhere. I looked at the way you got the AES version but still can't figure out how GB is sorted out. On another note - Hi-Soft BASIC 2.10 is great. I have been able to literally 'whip up' a very nice looking MultiTOS friendly program in about 6 hours! I spent more time in WERCS and planning on paper than coding it. The new windowed dialogs, key shortcuts and other enhancements are very nice. I did add the abilty to specify a default extension in FILESEL.BAS, though. Any information on aes_version and also GB would be great! Thanks in advance... Wayne - Saturday, January 15, 1994 - 01:08 p.m. PST ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 113 Sat Jan 15, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 23:08 EST Wayne, 832 decimal is 340 Hex. The AES version is stored in a packed BCD format. You have AES version 3.40, I believe. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 7:40 PM Mountain Time Saturday, January 15, 1994 ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 114 Sun Jan 16, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 00:11 EST Has anyone translated the GFA / Geneva include file to Hi-Soft BASIC 2.10 yet? I am working on it and it's not a big deal - but I hate reinventing the wheel! Thanks in advance... Wayne - Saturday, January 15, 1994 - 09:11 p.m. PST ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 115 Sun Jan 16, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 02:42 EST Mike, Ooohhhhhhhh...... I _get_ it. Thanks for the answer. pssst - You know anything about the GB function? Thanks, Wayne - Saturday, January 15, 1994 - 11:07 p.m. PST ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 116 Sun Jan 16, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 04:20 EST Wayne, GB function? I don't use Basic of any ilk. My distaste goes back to MicroSoft Basic for CP/M. I switched to C and Pascal as soon as discovered them. Actually the modern Basics are almost indistinguishable from Pascal anymore. The only reason I knew the answer to the AES version number was because some of us in the Programming RTC were writing programs to report various versions, AES among them. I wrote in assembly but some of the others wrote in C. We expected some GFA or HiSoft basic submissions, but none came in. If you are interested, check out cat3/top11 and/or drop into the RTC on the 1st and 3rd Thursdays of each month at 10pm Eastern. We have some very interesting (and lively) discussions. I know that I am learning a bunch. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 2:16 AM Mountain Time Sunday, January 16, 1994 ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 117 Sun Jan 16, 1994 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 10:07 EST >Actually the modern Basics are almost indistinguishable from Pascal anymore. > > Mike Allen > ST HelpDesk~Sysop >---------- Huh? What version of Basic makes you code your application upside down, and which version isolates you completely from the hardware? Basic and Pascal are a LOT less similar than C and modern Basics.. Many things translate almost directly from HiSoft and GFA Basic to C. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 118 Sun Jan 16, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 17:06 EST Ron, Look at a pascal and a modern basic program. I see PROCEDURES and FUNCTIONS all over the place. I see case insensitivity. I see words (ENDIF, END, BEGIN, etc.) instead of characters ({,}). To be honest, I have always programmed 'up side down.' Started this way with interpreted languages which ran faster if the subroutines were at the beginning of the code. K&R seemed to use this standard in C. [main(argc, argv) always seemed to be the last thing in a prg.] And, yes, pascal doesn't allow forward references directly. I still think modern Basic code looks more like pascal than anything else. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 2:53 PM Mountain Time Sunday, January 16, 1994 ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 119 Sun Jan 16, 1994 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 19:05 EST Mike, I guess it depends on who is writing it (Basic), whether it looks more like C or Pascal, but the basic purpose of Pascal, and their goals are different. Pascal was developed to teach use of ONE programming methodology, and to isolate the programmer from the hardware, Basic was developed to allow non- computer-science users to access the power of the computer. Both languages have far outgrown their original concepts, but they retain a different orientation.. C, on the other hand was developed BY programmers, FOR programmers, and you can get as close to the hardware as you want in it, and it is CERTAINLY not for the non-programmer.. Frankly, if I can't do it in Basic, I don't do it. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 120 Sun Jan 16, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 22:27 EST Mike, Actually I was vague - GB isn't a function, but I think like a C data structure of the Global Parameter Block (_AESglobal). I can check if the app is running unter MultiTOS/Geneva and if so change it's name in the Desk menu, etc. It's mentioned in 'Modern Atari Systems Software'. I can see how you would dislike older BASICs. I use Lattice C and sometimes DevPac 2 for things like CPXs or whatever, but some of my programs are quick utilities that wouldn't be worth spending lots of time on. With Hi-Soft BASIC 2.10 I was able to whip out an organiser for my Aladdin addresses in about 2 days (7 hours). It has dialog boxes in windows, keyboard and dialog shortcuts, MultiTOS compatible, etc. For things like that you cannot beat a modern BASIC. Also Hi-Soft BASIC 2.10 has access to DSP and other parts of the Falcon, MultiTOS, etc. just like Lattice. I'm a big fan of easy to use languages on the Atari range because the way it's going I feel that users will have to supply a lot of the software for the machine - so anything that makes that possible is good with me. See Ya! BTW, I'll check out the Topic and also work up a 'System Check' routine in Hi- Soft BASIC 2.10 - as soon as I have time! Wayne - Saturday, January 16, 1993 - 07:16 p.m. PST ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 121 Mon Jan 17, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 00:20 EST Hey, I figured out my GB question. If you want to find out if the system is in multitasking mode do this: number_apps=PEEKW(PEEKL(GB+4)+2) ' number_apps = 1 Single Tasking ' number_apps = -1 Multi Tasking Then you can use: id%=PEEKW(PEEKL(GB+4)+4) result=menu_register% BYVAL id%,BYVAL name$ With name$ being the name you want for your applicatio in the Desk menu under MultiTOS or Geneva. I'm whipping up a quickie 'Versions' program to show how to let users know system software versions. This could be good for bug reports etc. when you release your software. I need to know anyway, so I'll share it. See Ya! Wayne - Saturday, January 16, 1993 - 09:23 p.m. PST ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 122 Mon Jan 17, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 02:08 EST Ummmm... this is embarrassing. Could anyone remind me how to convert HEX to DECIMAL in Hi-Soft BASIC? I _know_ it's staring at me, but I haven't done any programming for about 6-7 months... Also, I need a person each with these machines: STe Mega Mega STe TT I plan to share the 'system check' code but I want to check that it works first. Of course it started real simple, but now I want ad _all_ the cookies, etc... That 'feature creature' is sneakin' upon me! Also, the Multi tasking code could have been simpler (I'm posting on one machine while coding on another, so I revised right after the post (of course!)). IF PEEKW(PEEKL(GB+4)+2) = -1 THEN ' Then Multi Tasking (Geneva/MultiTOS) ELSE ' Then Single Tasking END IF A CPU check would be: IF GETCOOKIE("_CPU",cpu&) THEN PRINT "CPU is a ";68000+cpu& END IF Thanks, Wayne - Saturday, January 16, 1993 - 11:10 p.m. PST ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 123 Mon Jan 17, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 02:51 EST Me _again_..... don't roll your eyes! OK, where do I look for the TOS version? I got yer cookies, I got yer AES, I got yer GEMDOS, CPU and machine... All I need is TOS version and it's done. Wayne - Saturday, January 16, 1993 - 11:48 p.m. PST ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 124 Mon Jan 17, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 10:50 EST Well... I guess I don't need the answers too fast now - my studio is a mess from the earthquake... It was pretty bad, I live in Los Angeles... Wayne - Monday, January 17, 1994 - 07:50 a.m. PST ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 125 Mon Jan 17, 1994 HISOFT at 13:21 EST Wayne, The GB function simply returns the address of the global array that is used to call the AES. It has actually been in HiSoft BASIC since version 1. In fact it is one of the ST BASIC compatibility functions. With ST BASIC there weren't named access to gem calls you had to fill in the GEM arrays yourself. To discourage people from using these we left them out of the HiSoft BASIC 1 manual - I guess we should have included them in the HiSoft BASIC 2 manuals. So to check out the version number of the AES that you are running you can use aes_version=PEEKW(PEEKL(GB+4)) and to see if you are running a version of the AES that supports potentially infinite numbers of applications use IF PEEKW(PEEKL(GB+4)+2)= -1 THEN ... Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 126 Mon Jan 17, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 19:08 EST Ok, put all the books back up, etc. after the earthquake and now I've dug this sucker out again and am coding onward. So, I have the TOS Version, etc. CONST sysbase%=&h4F2 tos_version=SPEEKW(SPEEKW(sysbase%)+&h2) os_date=SPEEKL(SPEEKW(sysbase%)+&h18) gemdos_date=SPEEKW(SPEEKW(sysbase%)+&h1E) It was bugging me... I feel very stoopid but I still don't know how to convert hex into decimal. The TOS Version has the major revision in the HIGH BYTE & minor in the LOW BYTE. I put the number in my Pro Calc and know it's right but it's hex and I want to display it in decimal. Otherwise I've got a simple little program shell with a 'Help' screen and 'System' screen (actually windowed dialog boxes) to share. See Ya! Wow! - we just had a BIG aftershock! The room was swirling... very weird... I no likeeee this, no sirreeeee Wayne 1/17/1994 ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 127 Mon Jan 17, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 21:26 EST >The GB function simply returns the address of the global array that is used to > call the AES. It has actually been in HiSoft BASIC since version 1. In fact >it is one of the ST BASIC compatibility functions. With ST BASIC there >weren't named access to gem calls you had to fill in the GEM arrays yourself. >To discourage people from using these we left them out of the HiSoft BASIC 1 >manual - I guess we should have included them in the HiSoft BASIC 2 manuals. > >So to check out the version number of the AES that you are running you can >use > aes_version=PEEKW(PEEKL(GB+4)) > >and to see if you are running a version of the AES that supports potentially >infinite numbers of applications use > IF PEEKW(PEEKL(GB+4)+2)= -1 THEN ... Dave, Does that mean there's a better way to find the '_AESglobal' array than GB in Hi-Soft BASIC 2.10? Thanks, Wayne - Monday, January 17, 1994 - 06:28 p.m. PST ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 128 Mon Jan 17, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 22:23 EST Wayne, Try... tos_ver = VAL(HEX$(PEEKW(PEEKL(PEEKL(&H4F2)+8)+2))) Not sure how HiSoft Basic handles peeks but, in GFA, it places th machine in Supervisor mode for you during peeks. You will need to be in Supervisor mode for this. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 129 Mon Jan 17, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 23:46 EST Wayne, You again! Hey, No Wayne, no gain! I saw that on a Wayne's World 2 ad. Are _you_ sick of "Partytime Excellent" "Wayne's World Wayne's World!" Oh, thanks for the code . Wayne - Monday, January 17, 1994 - 08:35 p.m. PST ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 130 Tue Jan 18, 1994 ORA [Bob] at 11:24 EST Roger, MASS is available separately. Price is $39.95 + s/h Robb ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 131 Tue Jan 18, 1994 HISOFT at 13:23 EST Roger, Here are the main improvements in version 2.10: * Major improvements to the GEM toolbox including extended dialog routines with keyboard short cuts and pop up menus. Also easy to use "dialog in a window" routines * Improved code generation * Named compiler options * MultiTOS friendly dynamic heap option * Long integer constants * New libraries for SpeedoGDOS, MiNT, MultiTOS and the Falcon XBIOS * Improved debugger (like that from Devpac 3) with better source facilities and which works in any mode on the Falcon * WERCS now supports the MultiTOS/Falcon 3D effects. * Editor walking menus work under Falcon TOS. The upgrade includes a 32 page booklet describing the new features (apart from the new operating system calls). The OS calls are documented in the book Modern Atari System Software. This is something that is available separately because it includes the calls for Lattice C and Devpac as well. We supply it with the Lattice upgrade (as that's the most expensive product) but this way people with more than one of our languages don't get multiple copies of it. Wayne, Sorry about my last message - I see you got it sorted over the weekend before I had time to reply. I hope you are OK after the Earthquake. To use Hex numbers in your BASIC programs prefic them by &h. So &h340 corresponds to version 3.40 of the AES. To print out values in hex use the HEX$ function: PRINT HEX$(version) or whatever. os_header&=SPEEKL(SPEEKL(&h4f2)+8) os_version&=PEEKW(os_header&+2) This will give the version no in a similar form to the AES version e.g. TOS 3.06 is &h306. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 132 Tue Jan 18, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 22:54 EST Just a quick note to let you know I uploaded VERSIONS.ZIP to the library. It has Hi-Soft BASIC 2.10 source code and shows how to do a few things in HB2 like register the applications name in the Desk menu under MultiTOS or Geneva and get the TOS , AES & GEMDOS versions as well as the machine & processor cookies. Thanks to Wayne Watson for the hex conversion information - it was bugging me! BTW, I don't know the file # yet, but if you search for versions you'll find it after 1/19/1994 See ya! Wayne - Tuesday, January 18, 1994 - 07:39 p.m. PST ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 133 Wed Jan 19, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 01:28 EST Dave, Thanks for the response - you _are_ allowed to have weekends . I figured it out and U/L'd the source, mentioned in the last posting. Thanks, Wayne - Tuesday, January 18, 1994 - 10:11 p.m. PST ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 134 Wed Jan 19, 1994 HISOFT at 13:24 EST GB is the only way of accessing the global array in HiSoft BASIC 2.10. To print the aes version nicely with a full stop etc you could use some like this: sub print_version(byval a%) if a%>&h1000 then print hex$(a%>>12); a%=a% and &hFFF end if print hex$(a%>>8); a%= a% AND &Hff print ".";HEX$(a%>>4);HEX$(a% AND &hF) end sub HiSoft BASIC doesn't use supervisor mode for "ordinary" PEEKB/PEEKW/PEEKL; these are in user mode to keep them fast - SPEEKB etc do the same thing in supervisor mode and will also let you read words and longs from a long boundary on a 68000 machine. Dave N. Dave N. *S ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 135 Sun Jan 23, 1994 JRH [Roger] at 09:20 EST Wayne, Thanks for uploading VERSIONS - particularly the HiSoft Basic 2 listing with it. I like HB2 a lot, and have been using v2.01 since it was first released, although my time is very limited and I have not really played with the toolbox stuff at all. I have ordered v2.10 and hope to see it soon. Possible that plus your examples will get me motivated to start doing some more programming and really getting into the more advanced features of HB2. I have a couple programs I would particularly like to modify to run in multi-tasking mode. So, thanks for sharing your stuff. It is certainly going to help me get a fresh start. I am running Versions on both a Mega ST4 and a TT030. On both machines the TOS Date is displayed incorrectly. Just checked it this morning on the TT, and I get TOS Date 9199 1_,____ as the date. Roger ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 136 Sun Jan 23, 1994 R.QUEZADA [B-B-Q] at 22:36 EST Anyone know if the upgrade to 2.10 allows reading of Jaguar enhanced controllers in those enhanced ports on the Falcon? The STICK function of my version 2.02 doesn't seem read them at all. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 137 Mon Jan 24, 1994 J.HUGHES23 [Jack ] at 22:08 EST Dave -- I think I asked this question some time ago but don't recall if it ever got answered: Why, using HSBv2.02, does invoking "RUN" via "Alt X" or the dropdown menu just compile the program and then stop, not continue on and run it? as it did in my original v1.23? [( ) Jack ( )] ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 138 Tue Jan 25, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 22:34 EST Roger, Thanks for the input. I plan to share whatever I learn as I go. I am mainly trying to make everthing I write at this point as MultiTOS / Geneva aware as possible. I don't think I'll ever use alert boxes (form_alert) again, but instead used windowed dialogs with key equivs. Hi-Soft BASIC 2.10 makes it so easy to write nice programs and the HGT lets you get going and then specialize any code you want as you go. I _wish_ I had _lots_ of time to program... Hmmm..... I'll have to check into the TOS version thing. It worked on my ST (1.04) and Falcon (4.04), so I'll go to my friendly Atari dealer and try some stuff there. Thanks, Wayne - Monday, January 24, 1994 - 10:28 p.m. PST ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 139 Wed Jan 26, 1994 HISOFT at 13:47 EST B-B-Q, I dopn't think we changed anything between 2.02 and 2.10. I beleive the intention is that the Jaguar controller should work like the STE joystick but we haven't been able to try it (the Jag isn't available over here yet). Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. . ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 140 Wed Jan 26, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 23:19 EST You know, I just bough a spare Jaguar controller and it sure did say STe/Falcon compatible. I'll plug it in and get back to you.... after a few rounds of Raiden! Wayne - Wednesday, January 26, 1994 - 08:07 p.m. PST ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 141 Thu Jan 27, 1994 HISOFT at 13:27 EST Jack, I'm sorry if I missed your message first time round. The only reason I think of that "Run" in HiSoft BASIC 2.02 won't run your program is if you have compile to disk (rather than to RAM) switched on. B-B-Q, Further to my last message it appears that the Falcon analog joystick port is not compatible with the STe one at all although it is at the same address in the memory map. Sorry about that. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 142 Thu Jan 27, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 21:05 EST Hi, Someone sent me a note asking how to check if the printer is online. I came up with this function, which checks if the printer is online, and if it isn't lets the user either Cancel the printing operation or turn on printer and select OK. You would call it like: IF printer_ready THEN *** Do your printing routine *** END IF I tested it here and it was OK - if something is goofy with it please let me know, I am but a humble 'newbie' to most of this . (BTW, the HBX is because I have an HBX folder like the HGT one where I keep Hi- Soft BASIC eXtensions that I write. Then I use them like the HGT, 'REM $include'ing what I need & usually pre-tokenising.) Wayne - Thursday, January 27, 1994 - 05:36 p.m. PST -------- Cut Here ------------------------------- ' Printer HBX ' Started 1/27/94 ' Wayne Steinert LIBRARY "GEMDOS" LIBRARY "GEMAES" DEFINT A-z ' Check if printer is ready to receive... ' Returns -1 if printer ready ' Returns 0 if user wants to abort the printing FUNCTION printer_ready STATIC res WHILE NOT cprnos% res=form_alert (2,"[3][ Printer | not ready...][ Cancel | Retry ]") IF res=1 printer_ready=0 EXIT FUNCTION END IF WEND printer_ready=-1 END FUNCTION -------- Cut Here ------------------------------- ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 143 Sat Jan 29, 1994 J.HUGHES23 [Jack ] at 19:19 EST Dave -- >The only reason I think of that "Run" in HiSoft BASIC 2.02 won't run your >program is if you have compile to disk (rather than to RAM) switched on. Well, you diagnosed that one right on the nose. Took me awhile to find the dropdown menu, but it works fine now. Hope I remember till the next time! Thanks, [( ) Jack ( )] ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 144 Sun Feb 06, 1994 C.WAWRZYNIAK at 11:57 EST Thanks... I'll definately try this routine for the printer. Programming is a constant learning trend. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 145 Mon Mar 07, 1994 R.QUEZADA [Rob] at 20:45 EST I just sent away for the HiSoft Silver Support for HiSoft BASIC 2.02 How do I upgrade now to 2.1? Do I have to wait for someone to send me something by mail, or can I order it via e-mail through HiSoft? I really need this new version badly. I've waited about 1 1/2 months and haven't received anything in the mail. It says that I have access to closed technical support conference on CIX. What is CIX? ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 146 Mon Mar 07, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 21:59 EST Rob, CIX is the European connection to BIX, an old and foggy U.S. online service. Al :) ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 147 Wed Mar 09, 1994 HISOFT at 13:22 EST Rob, CIX is a major U.K. online service for programmers and users of many platforms. It has probably got more users over here than anything over than Compuserve. Although the CIX system evolved from the same, Cosy conferencingsoftware, CIX and BIX aren't related apart from the name. Our Silver support service is really designed for people in countries where we don't have an active distributor like ORA. We do have you registered for Silver Support you should have got an introductory letter and notification of the 2.10 upgrade - I'll mail you the pricing for that upgrade when I can check on the shipping charge to the U.S. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 148 Wed Mar 09, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 21:40 EST Thanks for clarifying CIX's relationship (or lack of it) with BIX. When I was a regular on BIX, the owner at that time (Byte) made it clear that CIX had a commonality with BIX, and I never questioned that is was. ("Yeah, we have two letters in common ...") Al ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 149 Wed Mar 09, 1994 R.QUEZADA [Rob] at 22:01 EST Dave, Thanks. I'm looking forward to getting it. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 150 Sun Mar 20, 1994 B.AEIN [B Man] at 01:22 EST I am looking at getting a basic language, I have played with STOS but found it to limiting and not enough support for non-game programing. I have GFA 3.5 that came on a Cover disk, but I am running on a F030 and want to be able to use all resolutions and the DSP, FPU, as well as the TT's hi res mono TTm195. Is HB still being upgraded/active, I have heard some rumors to the contrary, and what is the state of GFA, have they made or making 4.0? I also see a lot of code for GFA in the British mags in PD catalogs, is there the same thing for HB? I am still rather new to programing and need all the pre written code I can get my hands on. My first real project is a ACC for Stalk the Market, it will display all of the stocks in a news paper format for quick viewing. STM makes you load up each stock seperatly and draws its graph. I just want to know which stocks are up and which are down. I might expande it to be a full blown T/A stock program if HB is easy enough to get to grips with. Thanks Bman ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 151 Sun Mar 20, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 15:46 EST Bman, Forget GFA as it is no longer supported by the company and does not work very well on the newer machines. HB2 is the better choice as it is still supported and updated. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 152 Wed Mar 23, 1994 ORA [Bob] at 12:58 EST B Man, HiSoft Basic is definately still being supported and upgraded. The newest version was released in October, with Falcon and TOS 4 support. The code in mags for GFA is fairly similar to what you would do in HSB, so it could give you some help. HSB is also similar to Microsoft Quikbasic, so there are some books out there that can help, and we are working on getting some more example programs done and out in the public. Robb @ ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 153 Thu Mar 24, 1994 B.AEIN [B Man] at 02:14 EST Well I ordered HB 2.1 and the Atari System's book, not the Conpendium, do I need both? What is OR's price on these? I would love to get a few PD disk of pre done code, that could be just inserted into my prg's to save much time. I hate to reinvent code that is already out there unless it is a great learning experience. I see that the british PD houses have GFA code disks for sale, may be they have HB 2 and just don't advertise it??? Maybe we can start a new lib on genie and get people that use or are registered to send in useable code (moduals) that they have done? I am willing to help organize this. My prob is that I can design the fudge out of the user interface of a good prg, but have limited coding skills. Does HB2 use line numbers? Will GFA's ability to "hide" code like that of sub routines be added to HB 2.?, this looks to go to be true and makes prg more managable. Thanks Bman ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 154 Fri Mar 25, 1994 HISOFT at 13:16 EST Bman, You need Modern Atari System Software (MASS) if you want to use the Falcon stuff, SpeedoGDOS, MultiTOS & MiNT because it includes the details of the BASIC bindings. The Compendium has extra information on the ST operating system calls (esp the lowlevel ones) compared with the HiSoft BASIC 2 manuals but it doesn't have the details of the types of parameters etc for the BASIC calls. You can use linenumbers in HiSoft BASIC if you really must. HiSoft BASIC has so many structured statements that gotos generally aren't required and if they are using a named label is preferable. Unfortunately the structure of the existing editor would make it very difficult to implement folding in the near future. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 155 Fri Mar 25, 1994 ORA [Bob] at 15:51 EST B Man, Our retail price on HSB2 is $139.95, and MASS is $39.95. The Atari compendium is a good tool for programmers, and has information dealing with all versions of TOS, where MASS deals only with new features like TOS 4, MultiTOS, etc. The Idea of sharing code is a good one, maybe talk to the sysop, and have them contact us if they think it is feasible. You can use line numbers in HSB2, but there is no 'hide-code' in this version, although there are other ways of managing code, such as pre-tokenised files. Robb @ ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 156 Sat Mar 26, 1994 B.AEIN [B Man] at 18:02 EST Cool, what are some good books to get to grips with Data Base programing? Is it Quick basic that HB is compatible with? Bman ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 157 Wed Mar 30, 1994 HISOFT at 12:19 EST Bman, Yep its QuickBASIC (3) that HiSoft BASIC is compatible with. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 158 Wed Mar 30, 1994 B.AEIN [B Man] at 18:04 EST I just bought HS Basic from Toad and got version 2.02. What do I need to do to get version 2.10? Should I conntact Toad or will you update me? Wercs looks very powerful, I am wondering how one does slide bars? Has this already been coded? There is a lot of info to read, but I'm a quick learner. Is there a GFA to HSB converter? Is there any source code over the pond in PD libraries? One quick question, what is the best way to prg the following? If someone clicks on ATC it will allow them to input all the data to the right of the symbol. If they click on any of the other fields, they can only edit that field. Should I use Wercs, or have routines to draw all the box's and text info to the screen? STM ADVISOR Symbol Current price +/- Shares held Cost Average Commisions ect.. ------------------------------------------------- ------------ ATC $7.00 -.50 1,000 $5.00 $20 -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- AMTC ------------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks Bman ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 159 Wed Mar 30, 1994 B.AEIN [B Man] at 23:24 EST Um Genie made a mess of my last message. A little reformating will show you what I had in mind, everything does line up. ;') ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 160 Mon Apr 04, 1994 ORA [Bob] at 16:11 EDT Upgrade to HSB 2.1 is $39 plus s/h. Send us your original disk, and we will send you the upgrade, which includes a manual addendum. Robb @ ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 161 Tue Apr 05, 1994 B.AEIN [B Man] at 01:35 EDT Should Toad be selling 2.1? I think I will call them and have them get 2.1, as I just bought it new and got an older dated version. I don't blame ORA, but $39 is a bit steep for an upgrade, that I shouldn't need. Bman ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 162 Tue Apr 05, 1994 HISOFT at 13:31 EDT Bman, Sliders for windows are created when you create the window; you have to roll ones within dialogs yourself. If you use the HiSoft GEM Toolbox, it has stuff to handle scrollable windows for you. I don't know of a GFA to HiSoft BASIC convertor, I'm afraid. It is the sort of thing that is difficult to do automatically in full generality. To be honest I haven't had time to see what PD libraries over here have as far as hiSoft BASIC source code; in general our users seem to want to hold on to their source code rather more than GFA types, I don't know why! Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 163 Wed Apr 06, 1994 J.KOSIOREK1 [Jack.K] at 22:35 EDT BMan I believe there is a program that shows how to do sliders in a dialog box with HiSoft Basic somewhere in this library. Sorry I cannot remember its name but I think a search on HiSoft or Sliders should find it. I know I downloaded it from here quite a while ago. It has quite a few useful comments. Jack ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 164 Thu Apr 07, 1994 B.AEIN [B Man] at 22:43 EDT Thanks Jack, What version are you running? Any chance you would up load or Fmail me some prg's??? I am looking at buuilding some moduals then uploading them to the Lib, so that everyone can use and modify them. I hope other people will do the same, thats the one advantage that GFA has over any other basic. Has WERCS been improved for version 2.1 over 2.02? I would like to have a way to be in move mode or in sizing mode, as both make it very hard to do what I would like to do. Thanks Bman ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 165 Thu Apr 07, 1994 E.EDELENBOS [-Ed-] at 23:18 EDT Hello. I am new to this area. I have been searching for a way to get access to the FPU on my AdSpeed board from Hisoft Basic. Is there a way? Is there a lib I can include. I can't (for the life of me) find anything in the manual. Thanks in advance. (P.S. it is equal to the Atari Mega FPU board in operation. i.e. Peripheral mode) ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 166 Mon Apr 11, 1994 ORA [Bob] at 15:05 EDT Actually, the upgrade includes the new program, new libraries, plus a manual addendum, so $39 is not all that much. Robb @ ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 167 Mon Apr 11, 1994 E.EDELENBOS [-Ed-] at 19:36 EDT Robb, in the upgrade, is there a library to include FPU use? I need to check to see what version I have. Can you tell me what the latest vers. number is? Thanks. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 168 Tue Apr 12, 1994 HISOFT at 13:27 EDT B Man, The improvements in WERCS for HiSoft BASIC 2.10 over 2.02 are only in the area of 3D buttons for MultiTOS and the Falcon. I take it that you've got lots of small objects. One hint is to always click near the top left of small objects when you are editting these. Remember you can also use the Extras command (Alt-E) for precise control of object sizes etc. The GEM yoolkit has been greatly enhanced. Ed, I'm afraid that you can't access a peripheral FPU from HiSoft BASIC. It isn't something that could be easily added. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 169 Tue Apr 12, 1994 E.EDELENBOS [-Ed-] at 18:52 EDT Dave, thanks for the info. It didn't hurt to ask. (Grin) ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 170 Tue Apr 12, 1994 S.MCGEE2 at 22:33 EDT I purchased HiSoft Basic 2.1 in January of this year and am happy to say it's the best Basic I've ever used. The toolboxes in particular are invaluable and make programming GEM a breeze. My question is on documentation for the new toolbox routines which begin with an 'x' (xHGTloop,xForm_do,xHandleDialog). These routines must have been written after the manual and are not documented. There are examples for some but not all. I heard that addendum to previous versions were included with updates. Could this be the missing docts? Secondly, there is an example for loading and displaying images using the images(index...) array. There is no example or any text of how to write to this array or copy window graphics to this array. Anyone want to field this one? Thank you in advance, Sam ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 171 Wed Apr 13, 1994 HISOFT at 13:19 EDT Ed, The latest version of HiSoft BASIC is 2.10. With the TT version (which also works on the Falcon with FPU) there is support for inline generation of FPU code. There is no option for i/o mapped support for 68000 machines. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft., ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 172 Wed Apr 13, 1994 E.EDELENBOS [-Ed-] at 18:23 EDT Thanks Dave. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 173 Thu Apr 14, 1994 HISOFT at 13:25 EDT Sam, The new toolbox routines are described in the version 2.10 Addendum that is supplied with the product and with upgrades. I'm afraid I don't have an example of updating an Image array once its loaded I'm afraid. Its something I keep meaning to write but some how I've never found the time. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 174 Sun Apr 17, 1994 R.QUEZADA [Rob] at 00:29 EDT Dave, I sent out my HiSoft Basic 2.02 disks to you for the 2.10 upgrade. I was wondering if you could tell me about when they would be shipped out. You should have gotten them by now, I guess. Any information would be appreciated, since I have something I've been working on and I need the upgrade to finish. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 175 Tue Apr 19, 1994 HISOFT at 13:19 EDT Rob, I can't help re your shipping of your upgrade; I work for HiSoft here in England rather than Oregon, giving technical help on our products; Robb@ORA is the guy to ask. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 176 Tue Apr 19, 1994 ORA [Bob] at 14:44 EDT Rob, There is no Dave here at ORA, and if you are here in the US, upgrades should be done thru us. Robb @ ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 177 Tue Apr 19, 1994 S.MCGEE2 [Sam] at 22:10 EDT HISOFT, My compiled HSBasic 2.1 program is over 100K and strings and arrays are using over 500K of memory. I occasionally get an 'Out of memory' error. The Technical Reference states that the heap may be full. Is it just a matter of increasing the size of: rem $option Knnn Also, the Reference describes String descriptors under the Advanced Options but the HSBasic 2.1 shows Dynamic Heap size. System: Falcon 4M. Sam ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 178 Thu Apr 21, 1994 HISOFT at 13:24 EDT Yes, if you get Out of Memory its most likely because the heap is full (this is when your progam is running isn't it?). You can also get this message when you haven't left enough memory to the operating system. If you aren't multi-tasking then its best to use the Leave Size option to just leave some memory to the OS - that way your program will get more memory for itself. The "Dynamic Heap Size" isn't described in the Technical Reference because it wasn't added until HiSoft BASIC 2.10. It sets the cut off point when using the new dynamic heap which is designed for programs designed to run under Multi- tasking systems. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 180 Fri May 06, 1994 R.QUEZADA [Rob] at 22:52 EDT I was just wondering...... In GFA Basic, there was a reserved word: "L~A" that returns the Line-A address. I was wondering if there was a way to calculate that address with HiSoft BASIC 2.10? I need it for converting my STOSFix program I wrote so it will actually work with MultiTOS. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 181 Sat May 07, 1994 S.MCGEE2 [Sam] at 15:29 PDT Rob, There is a HISoft Basic demo here in the library on how to use the naughty Line-A functions. Search under HISoft Basic. I think it's the only HSB file here with source code. Sam ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 182 Mon May 09, 1994 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 19:04 EDT Several questions about HiSoft Basic 2: 1) Is there something special about writing a AUTO folder program with this version of basic?. Or am I missing something?. 2) I notice that some of the sample source code here on GEnie uses a library called GEMACC, is this library available?. Thanks. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Monday, May 9, 1994 - 5:27:36 pm ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 183 Mon May 09, 1994 C.WAWRZYNIAK at 19:44 EDT I'm not too familiar with AUTO folder programming. You don't need the library GEMACC in HiSoft BASIC 2.0 nor in 2.1 It was needed in v1.x In place of GEMACC, you need GEMVDI library. Cheersd ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 184 Wed May 11, 1994 HISOFT at 13:14 EDT Jeff, You should read Appendix G (Desk Accessories) of the Technical Reference Manual if you are converting a HiSoft BASIC 1 program that uses the obsolete GEMACC library. To write a program for the Auto folder, write it as a TOS program; rename as PRG and then copy it to the AUTO folder. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 185 Tue May 17, 1994 S.MCGEE2 [Sam] at 19:32 PDT HiSoft, I purchased HiSoft Basic 2.1 in February and have been struggling with some of the new features. I happened to read an ad for HS Basic 2.1 which says it includes a 30 page addendum which covers these new features. My package did not include this addendum. How do I go about obtaining one? Sam ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 186 Tue May 24, 1994 HISOFT at 13:22 EDT Sam, Please contact Oregon Research. Dave Nutkins, HiSoft. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 187 Tue May 24, 1994 ORA [Bob] at 20:49 EDT Yes, Sam. Please contact us at your convenience. Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 188 Sat Jul 09, 1994 B.AEIN [B Man] at 20:40 EDT Guy's I just got the upgrade to 2.1, thanks. I am having some probs tho. Heres whats happening: 1. When I try to complie and run the example on page 156 of the User manual in ST RAM, I get a "Not enough memory around line 1222" "65 code generation failed at line 9" message. how do I correct for this? It will compile and save to disk. 2. It is having problems find where files are. If they are not in the root of Basic folder, it throws a fit. Hope to hear back soon. Bman ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 189 Mon Jul 18, 1994 T.WILKINSON1 [TomWilkinson] at 21:37 PDT This might just be the dumbest question ever asked here, but here goes: Is there an interpreter in Hisoft Basic 2.x? I have just bought the package from Oregon, and have used the compiler, but can't find any interpreter to run programs before compiling. Thanks for any help. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 190 Wed Jul 20, 1994 CBARRON at 00:56 EDT It's not a dumb question, but I do not believe there ever was a Hisoft Basic interpreter. It should compile fast enough so an interpreter is not needed, and the code does not have to be 'fixed' to compile after it runs in an interpreted mode. Compile and run should be easy point an click operations, but I think save, compile, run is a better sequence.... ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 191 Fri Jul 22, 1994 RHFACTOR at 02:07 EDT Question for the HiSoft'ers out there .... I read somewhere that there was or is a converter program that transformed HiSoft code to GFA or visa-versa ... anyone have any details ?? RHFactor ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 192 Sat Jul 23, 1994 J.KOSIOREK1 [Jack.K] at 10:34 EDT Tom: HiSoft Basic compiles extremely fast. (Faster Than Most Interpreters Interpret) TOS programs can be compiled and run from the Menu Selection but GEM programs must first be compiled and then they can be run from the menu option (RUN OTHER PROGRAM) or you can quit BASIC and run it from the desktop. The only problems I ever had running a GEM program from the HISOFT EDITOR SHELL was when it couldn't find my resource file (.RSC). Of course, once I told BASIC where to find it in the preferences menu option it worked fine. Hope this helps. Jack ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 193 Tue Jul 26, 1994 T.WILKINSON1 [TomWilkinson] at 08:34 PDT Jack, thanks for your reply. I guess I am just used to the GFA interpreter for fast testing and debugging. Oh well, not a problem. Thanks again. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 194 Sat Aug 13, 1994 C.WAWRZYNIAK [Criss-Cross] at 20:55 EDT Hi folks, The example on page 131 of the Tech. Ref. manual of HiSoft BASIC 2 shows how to turn off keypress clicks. What I would like to know, how do I got about to turn ON keypress clicks? Also, the routine on page 229 of the STeSound library, (same book as mentioned above) is wrong. I get error 53 If I remove the THEN at the end of the first line, then HiSoft BASIC 2 claims that one of the right brackets should be a comma. Any help on getting results of the above two problems, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Cheers ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 195 Sat Aug 13, 1994 S.MCGEE2 [Sam] at 22:40 PDT Criss-Cross { The example on page 131 of the Tech. Ref. manual of HiSoft BASIC 2 shows how to turn off keypress clicks. What I would like to know, how do I got about to turn ON keypress clicks? } According to The Atari Compendium: Memory Map location &H484 (byte) Bit Meaning if set --- -------------- 0 Enable key click 1 Enable key repeat 2 Enable system bell 3 Cause Bconin() to return shift status I suspect setting any of these bits to zero disables the function: { Also, the routine on page 229 of the STeSound library, (same book as mentioned above) is wrong. I get error 53 If I remove the THEN at the end of the first line, then HiSoft BASIC 2 claims that one of the right brackets should be a comma. } It looks like an END IF is missing. If the 'IF' executes more than one statements, END IF is required. Sam ps So Scott doesn't sue me: Everyone buy the Compendium! :) Sorry about the C notation. ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 196 Tue Aug 16, 1994 C.WAWRZYNIAK [Criss-Cross] at 20:59 EDT Hi folks, I'm experimenting with windows in HiSoft BASIC 2.10 but am not having much luck. I CAN get windows to open and stuff like that but I am having trouble in passing control to another window. For example: I have window 1 open, the main program. As soon as the user presses the right mouse button, window 2 opens up. Window 1 goes into the background & window 2 comes in the foreground. At this point the user presses any key on the keyboard and window 2 should be now in the background and window 1 comes into the foreground. This is where I'm having trouble with. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Cheers ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 197 Tue Aug 16, 1994 S.MCGEE2 [Sam] at 21:05 PDT Chris-Cross, If you are using the toolkit for windows (strongly recommended) then you just need the SUB TopAWindow which takes your window handle for a parameter. This is discribed on page 7 of the Addendum. As the text states, the XADDRESS.BAS program is excellent way to learn to use xHGTloop. If you don't use the toolkit you have to have to use wind_update and a bunch of other stuff and 'walk the rectangle list.' See the SUB ReDraw in WINDOW.BAS. Since it's already written and debugged, I use the toolkit. :) (Any corrections to my mistakes are appreciated.) Sam ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 198 Mon Sep 05, 1994 T.WILKINSON1 [TomWilkinson] at 07:48 PDT I am having a little trouble with some of the examples in the HiSoft Basic Manual. I tried to compile the TWDM.BAS file on page 154 and got the following errors. I'm using a 4 meg Falcon and About HiSoft Basic shows more than 2.25 meg free , but 0 alternate free. Can anyone help on this one? The following is the error that was generated: HiSoft BASIC for the Atari version 2.10 21 September 93 2.10 Compiling C:\LANGUAGE\HISOFTBA\HGT\TWDM.BAS Tokenising Parsing Generating code not enough memory around line 1192 Error: 65 Code generation failed at line 6 in file C:\LANGUAGE\HISOFTBA\HGT\TWDM.BAS I later managed to compile the file by juggling where the twdm.bas file was located. Can anyone tell me just how important paths are? If you include toolbox.bas, do you need to say where it is? For eg. REM $include C:\LANGUAGE\HISOFTBA\HGT\TOOLBOX.BAS Thanks for any help ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 199 Mon Sep 05, 1994 B.AEIN [B Man] at 19:24 EDT Tom, I had the same problem! Try under the Compile menu, where it says output: St Ram, TT RAM, Disk, Maximum! Try changing Maximum to like 500k. Does Auto indent work on your machine? No go here! Robert, can you tell me how to get this to work? I wish OR was more active in supporting this great software, we need code and a helping hand trying to learn how to use GEM. In case you did not know, St Review has a Hisoft Tuturial in their mag, I have like the last 5 issues or so. I haven't had time to get in to them too deep as I am still relearning Basic. Some months even have code on the cover disk to play with. If anyone is interested I might be able to upload the articals and source from the disks. Bman ------------ Category 33, Topic 8 Message 200 Tue Sep 06, 1994 HISOFT at 12:46 EDT You need to increase the program buffer size which you do by selecting "Output to" in the compiler options, then choosing the "Maximum..." option, then increase the amount of memory allocated to the program buffer. Alex Kiernan, HiSoft. ------------