========================================================================= (C) 1994 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 20 Sat Feb 06, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 13:16 EST Sub: ATARI Works ATARI Works will be released with the FALCON 030. This integrated word processor, database, spreadsheet application is ST/STE/TT and FALCON compatible. 216 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 1 Tue Mar 01, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:48 EST JK, Ah, yes. I seem to remember that there is a "feature" in some versions of TOS (or is it certain board revisions) that causes a single button press to be read as multiple presses. I noticed that on my STe's in a couple of programs but it was never enough of a problem to do anything about it. Wayne, I'm sure Atari _will_ get the fix out to the users as soon as possible. There may be more involved in it than a simple patch to AtariWorks. There may also be some changes required in Speedo which seems to be in an ongoing state of evolution. Pradip said that he did not want to release a fix until he was _sure_ that it was going to work for everyone. In the meantime the drill seem to be to try to find someone who will provide you with a copy of ver 1.2. There are ways around this thing. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 2 Tue Mar 01, 1994 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 03:51 EST JK... yes, also those of you with TOS 1.04 that have that 'double' click problem can download, I think it's called "butonfix". It's an ACC and it works. Just SEARCH under Charles F. Johnson in the lib. Wayne Watson. I agree that the 'Black Page Syndrome" is a problem, and its happened to me, in ST medium and mono res. but the GOOD news is that the problem does NOT go with the STW file when you save. I got BPS, re-booted the computer, re-loaded the document, and printed it out. For me, that's a BIG relief. Mike ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 3 Tue Mar 01, 1994 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 03:56 EST Oh, here's the TOS 1.4 "FIX" : ****************************** Number: 17710 Name: BUTTNFIX.ARC Address: C.F.JOHNSON Date: 901223 Approximate # of bytes: 2520 Number of Accesses: 897 Library: 16 Description: If you have TOS 1.4 or above, and have had trouble with some applications receiving "double" mouse clicks when you only click once, you need this tiny desk accessory! It consumes less than 400 bytes, and makes the problem go away almost completely. See the enclosed text file for more information. This utility is FREEWARE from Charles F. Johnson, based on an idea by Gene Sothan. A Christmas present to the Atari community. Enjoy! --- Use ARC602ST.TTP (file #13310) or ARC.TTP (file #1271) to extract. Keywords: UTILITY,TOS 1.4,DOUBLE SCROLL,ACCESSORY,BUTTON ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 4 Tue Mar 01, 1994 W.HYNES at 05:56 EST Thanks to you guys for the responses on AW reviews. I'll check them out. I'll E-mail you my address,Papa. -Bill- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 5 Tue Mar 01, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:32 EST Papa, Imagecopy 2. It's a must for screen capture and graphics conversion. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 6 Tue Mar 01, 1994 R.WILSON36 [Bob Wilson] at 18:12 EST Ken I haven't got a way for my sister to print yet. I figure I will wait out ATARI and until then she will suffer with borrowing someone elses PC for doing asignments. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 7 Tue Mar 01, 1994 CAPT.SPOCK at 19:43 EST Everyone, Thank you _so_much_ for the tip re: Warp 9. I don't have CodeKeys (personally, I just don't see the big deal about CodeKeys, but then again I'm a mouse-GUI- clicking kind of guy), so I just have to remeber to turn off W9 screen accel. until I get the upgrade (which will happen in about 2 weeks). AW is just awesome. What kind of info is in Papa's AtariWorks book? About $20 for a good book about a _recent_ Atari product is pretty reasonable. Just a month ago I needed a book on using Paradox 4.0 for DOS, and found Paradox *3.0* books for sale for $35!! Bleh-city.... Kerim ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 8 Tue Mar 01, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 21:59 EST Al, Imagecopy 2 is excellent except for two factors: 1 There is no "real time" onscreen update of changes made in contrast/brightness/saturation. The changes have to be made first in the View Dialog then the image reloaded. 2 Conversion to IMG writes and extended IMG file which is of no use to AtariWorks. Printing to an IMG file does not write a printer resolution specific file header - the image must be imported through a GEM sizer or resized after it has been imported (with possible moires). These are niggling little points that do not detract from it's utility in my "Pauper's Photo Shop" project - it just requires a different approach. I will be featuring a method for using it. Currently the best approach has been to use PicSwitch 1.01 which, in ST Hi, allows you to see changes in contrast and brightness on screen without having to reload the photo. The header written on the IMG _is_ printer specific allowing the photo to be scaled and halftoned appropriate to the intended output device. It does _not_ need to be imported through a GEM sizer or resized in AtariWorks. The only disadvantage at present is the lack of conversion utilities other than GEMView to translate TIF and TGA to GIF for PicSwitch. GEMView is an excellent program but it doesn't quite meet my criteria for intuitive operation - it presumes that YOU know what you're doing. It doesn't pass the "Dozing Bozo (aka 'Papa')" test! Well now that I know you that you were into 3-wheeling do I dare ask if you ever lost the pin that kept your skirts up? Kerim, I will defer your question about the book to the "lurkers ready to pounce". Suffice it to say that slick covers and perfect binding are not in my budget. The book was written to show not only how to do things in AtariWorks Word Processor but what AtariWorks itself is capable of doing. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 9 Tue Mar 01, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 22:02 EST There is also Button Fix (by Charles) and Scroll Fix in the libraries that will help with the skid problem. TOSes 1.4 and greater will have this problem. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 10 Wed Mar 02, 1994 J.KISTNER [JK] at 00:14 EST Papa, et al, Well, I tried the NEC-P driver just to see, saw, and was I surprised. My computer had a seizure, reading the hard drive for about 60 seconds non stop, afrter which my KX-P 1124 began printing out a............... totally black page, totally black. WOW. I will have to try that again sometime (what a rush). In the meantime, I think I'll stick with the Star NB24 driver that worked so well for me . ---JK--- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 11 Wed Mar 02, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 04:41 EST Kerim, Papa's Grafik Guide to Atari Works WP is a very thorough and well-written tutorial on using the AW word processor (including how to move data back and forth between the WP and the other two parts). It also includes dozens of tips and tricks that are not in the manual, and covers the basics of page design as well. Its price is nothing compared to the amount that it increases the value of Works to the user. Send Papa a check today! :) By the way, CodeKeys can automate mouse clicks as well as keyboard strokes, so those sequences you have to repeat again and again in certain programs can be replayed for you with a keystroke. Turning off W9 acceleration before printing with AW is just one example. I wouldn't want to be without CodeKeys. gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 12 Wed Mar 02, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:54 EST Capt., CodeKeys is the tool that lets my TT run all nigth doing all sorts of things while I am asleep. People here think I'm up 24 hours a day, but that's not true. I sleep from 2 to 5 a.m... But seriously, CodeKeys is one of the essentials, once you realize what it can do. It has nothing to do with a GUI vs. command-line distinction, BTW. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 13 Wed Mar 02, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:24 EST Papa, Thanks for the explanation of Imagecopy 2's two weak areas. Considering the strengths, I'd say it ranks pretty high. I hadn't seen these two as problems, but then I don't do the things you do. No, I never lost my pin. Lost a lot of sheet metal through rust, though. :) Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 14 Wed Mar 02, 1994 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 10:51 EST I just downloaded a file of .GEM borders (I think it's called AWBORDERS). It's a series of .GEM files but I can't get them to load into Calamus. They were originally .CVG files created with BORDER BUNDLES. Shouldn't these load into Calamus without trouble? Am I missing something here? Steve ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 16 Wed Mar 02, 1994 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 19:13 EST Yes, Steve, you missed the Category altogether. Please take your question to Cat 16. Thanks. ;-) Nathan Potechin - DMC Publishing ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 17 Wed Mar 02, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 21:59 EST So, Al, do you like Imagecopy 2 better than the graphics program from ORA? Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 18 Wed Mar 02, 1994 P.BITHELL [PFLIP] at 22:12 EST Hi, I have a problem I have run across just now. The print-out of a one page document came out screwed up, but just on the bold type; let me explain : first of all I'm using a Falcon with TOS 4.4 and Speedo GDOS 4.1, the document uses Bitstream Charter exclusively. It starts with a headline in bold followed by 6 paragraphs with a short comment in bold below each paragraph (one line). Like I said, the lines in bold are "scrunched" up. What gives ? I used the - select all- function and made everything normal and that re-printed just fine, Is it something I don't know about or am I doing something wrong (I think not), or is it a critter roaming around the code ? Any help would be a BIG help... Thanx, PFLIP ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 19 Wed Mar 02, 1994 D.DINN [Scott D.] at 23:38 EST All, I am having trouble saving a .GEM file on my Falcon (4 meg, TOS 4.04). I keep getting "GDOS can not load the metafile driver. There may not be enough memory to load it." Whats up with this!? What is a metafile driver?? I also have a STacy (2 meg, TOS 1.04) and get the same message. I kind of understand the error on the STacy due to memory limitations, but I don't see why I get it on my Falcon. More details: I was trying to save a graph created in the spreadsheet. I booted my system with only UIS and XCONTROL auto and accessories. Has anyone else had this problem? Help!!! Scott Dinn March 02, 1994 20:34 PST ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 20 Wed Mar 02, 1994 S.KAINE at 23:46 EST Scott D..... Make sure your meta.sys file is on line 31 and memory.sys is on line 10 in your assign.sys file. steve kaine ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 21 Thu Mar 03, 1994 R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{] at 01:26 EST STEVE - It's so nice to find a question I can answer instead of just being the one asking them. The reason it is called AW borders is because it has been altered from >CVG< to a GEM file that AtariWorks can use. If you want the Calamus Border Bundles they are in the library, do a search under Calamus. (:{ Grouch. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 22 Thu Mar 03, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 05:55 EST Steve, I think what you meant to say was 31 META.SYS and 61 MEMORY.SYS. PFLIP, You didn't mention whether you were using a bold font or a bold attribute. Was the "scrunching" on screen or only on printout? I have encountered the "scrunching" on printouts with a normal screen display in templates that I use in conjunction with metafile copies of the spreadsheet. It almost seems like the template "wears out" after a while. Screen distortion seems to occur when memory runs low (or maybe fragmented). I think these are happening in Speedo since I have seen similar occurences in WordFlair II, MyDraw and Kandinsky. The worst occurence I have experienced was when I tried importing a very complex GEM metafile. AtariWorks took it in, thought about it for a while then barfed all the text on the page into system font. I was able to save it and print it OK though. I had probably hit the limits on Speedo's ability to handle vector objects. Grouch, Nice to see you back in this neck of the woods. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 23 Thu Mar 03, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:32 EST Ken Van, I haven't tried the graphics app from ORA. Pflip, Try the genuine bold (Charter bold) instead of bolding the roman face. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 24 Thu Mar 03, 1994 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 18:05 EST Can someone give me the lowdown on printing to a STraight FAX file. I'm running this program with Speedo GDOS installed and I set the printer driver to the STFAXSPD.SYS using the print set-up, adjusted the page size the tried to print. The printing dialog came up for a while then the program crashed with (I think) 3 bombs. I dried out the system and tried again, same result. I tried the STFAX.SYS driver and then immediately crashed with 2 bombs. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 25 Thu Mar 03, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 20:26 EST Flakes, No problem here printing faxes. Ask Charles Smeton in the STFAX cat and he may have an idea. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 26 Thu Mar 03, 1994 S.KAINE at 21:41 EST Papa... no, I meant 10 memory.sys and 31 meta.sys, because that is the way mine is. What is the difference and does it matter? steve kaine ps. I have to show my ignorance. How do I send email? ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 27 Thu Mar 03, 1994 DJSAMUEL [DOUG/DIANE] at 22:58 EST I have recently purchased Atari Works and love it except for the fact that I have version 1.207. The BPS is really starting to bother me, and although I add a dummy page at the beginning of the document, the amount of toner I must be using is getting to me. Since I am the only person I know of in my area that has Works, switching to 1.2 is not an option. There must be some possible work arounds until Atari get around to fixing this. What about the feasibility of a short program to capture the output to the printer, allow the printer initialization through, dump the first page, and allow the rest of the document to print normally. At least with this I wouldn't be wasting all of the toner. I'd still have to add the dummy first page though, but that isn't difficult. The program is great to use, and if the BPS is fixed, it is enough for me to continue with a new Atari computer (I'm waiting for my 7 year old 520ST to give it up one of these days). By the way, I have the BPS problem on every printout. I am using a 2.5 meg 520ST with the Okidata 410e LED printer (highly recommended) and the HP laserjet driver. Thanks for any responses! Doug ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 28 Fri Mar 04, 1994 R.GARDNER2 [Gaitor] at 00:22 EST "Papa", I tried your suggestions with regards to the Calendar file. When I printed them out, while using my monochrome monitor, the text came out better than when I printed it out while using my color monitor. It was still a _little_ scrunched up, but not nearly as much as it had been. I then loaded the GEM templates into "MyDraw" and printed them out with _Absolutely NO_ scrunched up text. I then saved them with my SpeedoGdos settings and tried to import them back into AtariWorks while using my color monitor, with no improvement in the output. So I guess I will have to print them out while in the High Res mode. I _did_ notice one problem while using "MyDraw". When I tried to load a different GEM calendar template after having saved a previous one, my screen would lock up after only partially loading the file, then I would a 2 or 3 bomb alert and would be returned to NeoDesk. I also sometimes gat one of the alert boxes in German when it tried to load the file. I had no problems loading one GEM sample file after another, but not the Calendar templates. The only way that I could load and resave the Calendar GEM files was to exit the program after saving and then to reload the program before loading the next GEM file. Thanks for the help, Gaitor ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 29 Fri Mar 04, 1994 R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{] at 01:46 EST Papa - I was trying to use the macro feature of AW today and turned to your guide for quick help. Just skimming (perish the thought I should actually read something) it looked like all it would do was set up the location of an imported graphic file. What I wanted a macro for was to save the closing of a letter and not have to type my signature block all the time. Ended up saving it as a STW file and now I call it up, cut it, close the file and paste it where I want it. There is an easy way, right? Nobody but me would design a program to work the way I'm using it. (:{ Grouch. S.KAINE to send Email log onto page 200 (m200) and you will get the mail menu. Better yet get Aladdin and do things the easy way, just pull down the GEmail menu and write your Email, send it full auto style and save on-line time and costs. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 31 Fri Mar 04, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:10 EST Mike, There's an Aladdin-ST RT, page 1000 I think it is. That's a weird one ... have you tried Shift-downarrow to page down? Doug, I think in cases like yours, the very least Atari should do is e-mail version 1.2 to registered owners of 1.207. I'm tempted to e-mail it to you myself, but I hesitate to use GEnie to do something illegal even when justice and the law are on opposite sides. ;) Bill Rehbock, where are you? gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 32 Fri Mar 04, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 05:14 EST Steve, Device 10 is supposed to be a screen driver (one of the Falcon resolutions, I believe). MEMORY.SYS is supposed to be assigned to Device 61. I don't know what it is used for - I deleted it from my ASSIGN.SYS file with no problems. If you have the GEnie prompts turned on just type MAIL and you will be taken to the Mail Menu. If prompts are turned off type m200 and it will take you to the same place. To see the options type ? and the menu will come up. You need to know the GEnie address of whomever you want to send mail to. After that it is pretty much like using the RT. Doug, The only way you could do what you're thinking of is to send the file through a spooler that will write to a disk file. You would then need to edit out the BPS afflicted portion with a disk editor. This will probably be a huge block of hex "FF". The problem with this is that a full page at 300 dpi will be anywhere from 500k to 1 mByte or more in size. That's a lot to go through with a disk editor - you couldn't do a global delete of all "FF's" without possibly damaging the good pages. The remedy is to get ahold of ver 1.2. Gaitor, I think what you are seeing is something in the way Speedo handles things. I have Speedo ver 4.1 which "seems" stable but I have noticed little things like what you experienced with the calendar templates in MyDraw. It may be related to the number of objects on the page - I honestly don't know. I had a visitation from "The Vile Scrunch" myself today. I am working on a document that uses two lines of 10 point text for a photo caption. Sharing the same vertical space and positioned about an inch or so to the right is some 24 point text that was copied as a metafile then pasted into position. Creates a nice text effect and printed with _no_ problem on my HP500 at home. Printing on the HP4L "Baby" Laserjet produced the scrunch on the 10 point text. I cured it by copying it as a metafile, deleting the original then pasting the metafile in its place. To my way of thinking this indicates a quirk in Speedo or the printer driver. I am inclined to think it is in Speedo since the choice of screen driver also seems to have an effect. However, in view of your clean printout from MyDraw, it is probably not that simple - what we may be seeing is a complex inter-relation of Speedo, the various drivers and the way individual applications interface with Speedo. This is, I suspect, why we haven't seen the BPS problem resolved yet. Personally I would be happy as clam if ver 1.2 was re-released as version 1.208 and _everyone_ got a free upgrade. Incidentally, Kandinsky can be used with my "Fun Fonts" if they are loaded into MyDraw first then resaved. Kandinsky does tend to crash unpredictably when using them. I prefer to used MyDraw then import the finished text into Kandinsky for "special effects" like adding an XOR field. Grouch, You're doing it right. My Letter Closing macro is nothing more than a left tab at the 5" mark. If you use the same closing every time it's better to do it as a short .STW file the way you're doing it. That allows you to use a Speedo font for your signature if you are so inclined. I'll bet there's a way to create a Codekeys macro to load the signature block .STW and a blank page template in sequence. One of these days I'm going to have to get Codekeys. There's lots of times when I load multiple files in AtariWorks to do just one thing. For instance - loading my address book, my invoice spreadsheet template and my invoice .STW template when I need to prepare a bill. Mike, I tried Aladdin for a short time but eventually ended up with Oracle. Aladdin is too much of a hard drive space eater for me. Oracle doesn't have the bells and whistles but works just as well for what I need. It does need Steno and Stalker in order to work though. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 33 Fri Mar 04, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:39 EST Grouch, I have a template for letters, with my letterhead, date, salutation, and closing. Actually, I have more than one, because I use one for letters for work, set up to take stationery, another for personal business, and another for an organization for which I am treasurer (which doesn't have stationery, but I made my own on the computer, including the logo). I resave occasionally to keep the date somewhere near current on the template. When I want to write a letter, I load the appropriate template, correct the date (an operation I guess I could now replace with ctrl D), fill in the salutation, and write the letter. I have to remember to Save As so I don't overwrite my template. After I do a batch of letters, I quit and go to GEMvelope to do the envelopes. That's a great program! It was a little handier when I used Wordflair for most of my letters, though, because with AW I have to scroll down through a lot of header lines with code, my letterhead, etc., before I get to the internal address, while with WF it was on or near the top line. I don't know how it managed to skip the other stuff. It doesn't work with Calligrapher at all, because those files aren't in a readable format apparently. gnox, I'm with you. Maybe I'm to stuffy about ethics, but I've gently declined to send a copy to a pretty good friend on the basis of principle, but I think Atari has an obligation to these folks. I wondered here a little earlier if a compromise would be to send just the program without the RSC, since that would be a program that would be crippled to anyone without the support files. Maybe someone could ask Bob Brodie tonight what he suggests for helping others with this. This is his night online, isn't it? Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 34 Fri Mar 04, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:34 EST 31 memory.sys 61 meta.sys Al Mike, There's an entire Aladdin area among the GEnie BBSes, BTW. If a message is longer than one page, I use the cursor-down key (along with the shift key, usually) to scroll down. There are other ways of doing this, too. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 35 Fri Mar 04, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:27 EST Gnox, When lawyers are are one side and common sense is on the other, guess which side we all should take? :) Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 36 Fri Mar 04, 1994 P.BITHELL [PFLIP] at 19:22 EST O-ZONE, What system are yo using (ST,STE,FALCON,ETC)? Are you using the latest STFAXSPD.SYS driver (if not contact Toad Computers). Also make sure yoe have installed MEMORY.SYS as device #61 and META.SYS as #31, also make STFAXSPD.SYS #22 so you can select it from the -PAGE SETUP- menu in AW. Hope that helps. PFLIP ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 37 Fri Mar 04, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 19:50 EST gnox, You must forgive Al. He's reflecting the old American tradition of brewing tea in Boston Harbor. It's something I relish doing myself! 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 38 Fri Mar 04, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 20:28 EST Mike, Have you tried hitting the space bar on messages longer than one page? ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 39 Fri Mar 04, 1994 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 21:17 EST Hi All, I'm considering purchasing A/works. I use a TT, Warp 9 and DeskJet. Will I need to worry about BPS? Any other nasty bugs? Is this program a good investment? Thanks--Rob ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 40 Fri Mar 04, 1994 R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{] at 22:51 EST Ken Van and Papa - Thanks for your input. I would use the Ken Van technique, except I hate the flicker of pushing lines ahead or down. Papa, your mention of CodeKey made it all clear for me. I will simply set up a code key macro that types in the signature block in real time. Why load and erase screens for "Sincerely, {4 blank lines} Name/address" ? (:{ Grouch. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 41 Sat Mar 05, 1994 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 02:32 EST Thanks all for suggestions for working with Aladdin; now back to topic...... Mike ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 42 Sat Mar 05, 1994 COMPO at 02:59 EST Papa - Memory.sys is very rarely used. I think Atari's layout program Deskset uses it. Robert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 43 Sat Mar 05, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 06:01 EST Robert, Now that I think of it _my_ MEMORY.SYS is rarely used also. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 44 Sat Mar 05, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 06:28 EST I tried installing an .ARV as a sound file in the left margin, and it came out very slow and distorted. I guess it needs to be edited to a higher speed. (I found the instructions in the AW manual I forgot I had. There were so many manuals that came with my Falcon 030.) Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 45 Sat Mar 05, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:56 EST Did anyone talk to Bob Brodie about the BPS fix as Ken suggested? (I haven't downloaded the RTC transcript - ) By the way ... I wonder if any BPS sufferers have tried the sort of workaround I use to solve a different problem on my system: If I turn on my HP3p without rebooting, and then try to print an AW page to it, I always get a greatly magnified printout of the upper left corner of the page. So before printing from AW, I call up some ACC that has printing capability (usually EdHak) and send some little thing to the printer, such as a space character. Whether this actually causes a page to be ejected from the printer or not, it avoids the AW printing glitch, so that the first page I print from Works comes out as it should. I just mention this on the remote chance that nobody trying to avoid the BPS has tried that sort of method. By the way, Rob, AWorks is great on the TT, but you need Warp 9 3.8x - not sure whether the Deskjet has BPS. gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 46 Sat Mar 05, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 08:58 EST Grouch, You're welcome. I've had CodeKeys for a couple of years, but never learned to use it. (I've come close a couple of times, though.) Maybe it's time to make another push. Seems like it might be easier than what I'm doing. I think I got my WP programs mixed up when I said I could insert a date with ctrl D. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 47 Sat Mar 05, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 11:02 EST Gnox, >Did anyone talk to Bob Brodie about the BPS fix ... Of course I did! I figure I make it a monthly thing. According to Bob, Pradip is deeply concerned about the BPS but it isn't his priority work-wise. The Jaguar is. I also ask about getting a lower version of AW out to those that need it and he will look into it. ~~Brian..Written on Saturday 05 March 1994 at 11:38 a.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 48 Sat Mar 05, 1994 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 13:38 EST Bulletin: sometime after the formal RTC, Bob said that Pradip has just popped into his office to say he thought he had a fix for BPS. Stay tuned. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 49 Sat Mar 05, 1994 D.DINN [Scott D.] at 13:59 EST All, I have some questions about AW from my limited experience since I got my Falcon 4 months ago. Is there any reason why in the spreedsheet that the only way to get graphs is to enter the data in rows instead of columns? I am used to working with EXCEL on a MAC at work, and all graphs/charts I create there the data is in columns. This makes it awkward to print off a sequential listing of the data. Also I found out that there is a maximum of 30 entries for graphs, this is quite annoying for charting large time spans or a lot of data. I know that I could just split up the data, but why should I have to!? One other thing thats kinda of pain, is when you create several charts and pull down the "DRAW CHART" menu all it does is say CHART 1, CHART 2, etc. I think there should be a way to name the charts with a description. When using AW and working with several documents open at the same time, the ACTIVE WINDOW feature is cool but a bit cumbersome. What I mean by this is that you have to goto another dialog box to pick what document you want active. In other WORKS type programs I have used, when you pull down the ACTIVE WINDOW menu, you just click on the document you want active, not have to goto another dialog box. These are by far and away complaints of AW, I am really glad to have a "professional" WORKS type software for my Falcon, and it was free! But after working with MAC software I got spoiled with these little features. So call this a wish list for AW version 2.xx. By the way, thanks to everyone who helped me with saving graphs as .GEM files. I added the META.SYS as 31 to ASSIGN.SYS and it worked! As they say in the Burger King commercials...."I love this place!" Scott Dinn Sunnyvale, CA March 05, 1994 10:43 PST ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 50 Sat Mar 05, 1994 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 15:43 EST Brian, >According to Bob, Pradip is deeply concerned about the BPS but it >isn't his priority work-wise. The Jaguar is. I normally don't get into these type of discussions, but I'm reaching the end of my tolerance level with Atari's so-called management. Pulling Pradip off AWorks, Atari's "flagship" software product, is the most arrogant, cavalier action against its few remaining loyal customers I've seen yet. Even with their past record, I find this incredible! I suggest AW 1.027 user's mail every one of their black pages to Jack Tramiel along with a refund demand. Postage due. Perhaps _then_ the Tramiels would get the message. I truly feel sorry for Pradip. I apologise for being somewhat off-topic, and feel free to forward this to Flames if warranted. (I personally avoid that cat.) Regards, Doug Walter ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 51 Sat Mar 05, 1994 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 16:31 EST PFLIP, I use an STE with a panasonic KX-P4410 laser printer (HPII emulation.) I'm set up just as you said. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 52 Sat Mar 05, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 17:48 EST Doug, I wish I could argue with you but I can't. Let's hope that there is good news soon, as per Lou's post. I am happy to say I don't read cat 18 anymore and I am not moving your post. ~~Brian..Written on Saturday 05 March 1994 at 06:46 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 53 Sat Mar 05, 1994 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 19:06 EST Whatever else may have a problem with AW... LaserBrain doesn't... or is it the other way around? Anyway, I had loaded LaserBrain for some ASCII dumps and then forgotten about it. With LBrain loaded I ran AtariWorks, loaded a file, modified it, then printed it out on the SLM..... Even with LaserBrain eating a full MEG of RAM and sitting in the center of everything trying to convince the system it's hooked up to an old Epson printer everything worked GREAT!!!!! Pefect printout with the Speedo fonts. Color me surprised. Gregg ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 54 Sat Mar 05, 1994 DJSAMUEL [DOUG/DIANE] at 23:43 EST Rob, I have recently purchased Atari Works and have been victimized by the BPS. Even with this problem, I would say the Works is definitely worth it. I use Word for Windows at work all of the time, and find Works to be much easier, smoother and faster. I am using a 520 ST expanded to 2.5 meg, and it runs great (except BPS). And to top it off, I am now able to do work at home, save it in RTF format, and import it into Word with the fonts, styles, and formatting intact! I am still confident there will be a fix for this soon, and I am still not sorry I purchased it. It just doesn't help my opinion of Atari, and I have been one of the last die hards in my area. Doug ________________________________________________________________________ >I suggest AW 1.027 user's mail every one of their black pages to Jack Tramiel >along with a refund demand. Postage due. Perhaps _then_ the Tramiels would get >the message. I truly feel sorry for Pradip. > Now there's an idea! As my pile of black pages is piling up, I may consider doing that. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 55 Sat Mar 05, 1994 J.VENGROUSK1 [SHOWMAN] at 23:54 EST Haven't had BPS yet... BUT: I just had the most... interesting.. experience with WORKS: I spent the day working up a budget and billing for a project. This evening I was finalising the look in WORKS and went through a number of drafts and revisions to the printer. After one typical print, when the program came back and the print info box that hangs there while it prints went away... everything that was behind that box came back IN SYSTEM FONT ONLY!!!! When I did anything that redrew the screen, all rerawn text was in system font... it was gamely attempting to take up the same real estate as the font I'd been using ( in this case GEOMETRIC SLABSERIF medium) so that it was pretty bunched up on itself in places. Other areas it tried, sometimes amazingly well, to adapt the system font to the size and coverage that was originally there. Any document brought into the program after this happened came in only in SYSTEM FONT in various sizes. Any attempt to select text and change the font resulted in SYSTEM FONT. The only way to fix the problem was to quit WORKS and start it up again. The document was apparently unaffected since I SAVED it under a new name and when I opened it (after restarting WORKS) it looked fine. This happened several times. thoughts? ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 56 Sun Mar 06, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 01:09 EST Scott, Works is straight GEM, so all you have to do is click on the window you want to be active. The menu item for it is redundant. Doug, A little drastic, maybe, but your idea of Works users sending off their black pages to Atari is a stroke of genius. Showman, Speedo GDOS died on you, or Works killed it. As you said, the solution is to reboot. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 57 Sun Mar 06, 1994 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 01:19 EST Thank you, Brian. I too sincerely hope good news is upcoming shortly. I'm just frustrated with the current state of Works. I really believe it has tremendous potential. I'll just let my collar out a little in the meantime :-) Doug7 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 58 Sun Mar 06, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:09 EST Showman, I have had that happen to me also. The file saves OK and you can print the selected fonts even with the system font on screen. So far I have only seen it affect the screen display. Seems to only occur after some fairly memory intensive things have been done - like rotating a Speedo font in MyDraw then bringing it into AtariWorks _without_ the required upright space character. After it finishes rotating all the text on 6 or 7 pages Speedo barfs and spews system font all over the place. All, Do I detect an AtariWorks users revolt in the offing? Wonder what would happen if Ralph Nader was an Atarian? 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 59 Sun Mar 06, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:12 EST Papa, If Ralph Nader owned an Atari, he'd have written a book titled, "The TOS-up: Unsafe at any Speed, 8-32MHz." Which reminds me of how many famous people are, or were, Atarians. It would be fun to put together a list someday, somehow. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 60 Sun Mar 06, 1994 G.NELSON16 [GFN] at 10:21 EST Bob, Actually every piece of Atari software I own almost suffers from orphanitis or developus reductus. I have spent $600.00 for DynaCadd only to be put on hold that it will for the Atari never be upgraded again. Ditto for Pagestream, Superbase (?) LDW Power etc. Am I happy about this? No, but most ears are deaf to Atari because in some respects the Atari management can only manage one project at a time and currently that is the Jaguar. (which after they are semi successful with it will throw it aside like chaff). Will I use anyother computer? At the moment no. Am I a fool? Probably. Papa, The only spreadsheet I own that does not scroll further than I like when using the up/down cursor keys is LDW Power. GFN ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 61 Sun Mar 06, 1994 J.VENGROUSK1 [SHOWMAN] at 10:24 EST Thanks papa and al... from both of your comments this seems to be relatively 'normal' and familiar. sigh ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 62 Sun Mar 06, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 14:33 EST Brian, Thanks. If they would only let us legally send those in distress the part of AW they need to operate, it would be great. It's not like we want to give away the store! Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 63 Sun Mar 06, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 16:20 EST Haven't seen the Jaguar advertised in the Detroit area yet. I wonder when it's going nationwide and how it's doing. I see an ad in the library for one for sale. I hope that project is on automatic soon so Atari can get back to computers. I have never had the system font problem with AW. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 64 Sun Mar 06, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 17:01 EST I agree Ken V. It is ATARI users helping users that it is all about. I hope they come up with a plan soon for those with the BPS problem. ~~Brian..Written on Sunday 06 March 1994 at 05:55 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 65 Sun Mar 06, 1994 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] at 19:45 EST Hi! I want to print a phone book using label & merge function here is how it comes out: John Doe 555-1212 Anthony Bellomo 555-1234 Or if I print from the data base then this is how it comes out: John Doe 555-1212 Anthony Bellomo 555_1234 Here is how I want it to come out: John Doe 555-1212 Anthony Bellomo 555-1234 I would like the first and last names to be next to each other and all the phone numbers to line up one under each other on the right side of the page. How can I do that? KenO. :) ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 66 Sun Mar 06, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 23:30 EST KenO., Couldn't you just put a tab between the last-name field and the phone-number field in the .STW document that you merge to, and put the tab stop where you want it? gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 67 Mon Mar 07, 1994 R.BEATTY3 [Buffalo Bob] at 02:11 EST Rob, I use a TT, Warp 9 and a SLM-605 and would not be without Atari Works. It is the one application everyone should have... Bob Beatty Honolulu, HI ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 68 Mon Mar 07, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 04:11 EST Al, On second thought, Ralphie-boy is _not_ really my idea of the kind of advocate I would want representing me! He would have us all working with KSR-32 terminals to protect us from the hazards of CRT's. GFN, ALL my spreadsheets scroll further than I would like - even the ones on columnar pads. Oh, yeah - one exception - Accounts Receivable!! Ken, We could call it "DCR" for De-centralized Customer Relations. Sort of spread the workload around a bit, don't ya' know. Never seen the system font "feature"? You're not trying hard enough! Whip it good with some real nasty GEM's, mix 'n' match some metafile copies in strange and wonderful ways - you'll see it!! KenO, Looks like you are copying a group of name/phone number records. Just copy them in like you did in your first example. Click on Select All under the Edit menu in the WP or highlight the range of records you copied in then go to the Search menu - click on Replace. At the first line enter [Control]-I. At the second line type a single [Space]. Click on OK or hit [Return]. That will remove all the "hidden" delimiting tabs that were copied over _with_ the database fields. Now you can place tabs with the WP and get things to line up the way you want. The ruler bar shows _only_ the tabs that you set. It doesn't show the default 1/4" tabs OR the tabs that come with database fields or spreadsheet cells when they are copied in. These spurious tabs can mess up your attempts at reformating for nice columns. A sneakier way just occured to me - go to Page Setup. Define your margins to set the size of your printout. Click on Labels then set the Labels per Row to equal the number of lines that can be printed between top and bottom margins in your preferred font. Labels per Column can be whatever fits your preference. Now just Merge the database fields. Place a single space between first and last names and a tab to position the phone number. You might want a header to title the printout with. Turn the grid off for printing unless you want it for appearance sake. Note: I haven't tried it - the idea just occured to me as I type this but it should work for printing lists. It won't work for embedding a list in a document - you have to do that with the copy function. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 69 Mon Mar 07, 1994 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] at 07:44 EST Papa & Knox, Just tabing over from the last name(or entry) does not work. However as you suggested,Papa, using select all and setting the tab that way works just fine. Thanks guys Another one of those "why didn't I think of that?" or "its in the man but who reads manuals?" Ken). :) ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 70 Mon Mar 07, 1994 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 10:42 EST Papa, I'd be real interested in your upcoming article on creating a "poor mans photo shop". I've always been interested in getting my photography into digitized form but there isn't much available on the ST. There are programs available on other platforms but they too are real expensive. I downloaded a huge file from here with a bunch of .GEM files that are to be used as borders. They won't load into SL for some reason. They were converted from .CVG files I believe. Any Ideas? Steve ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 71 Mon Mar 07, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 15:01 EST KenO, You're welcome. That [Control]-I thing comes from an earlier post of gnox's. I learned it from him. Steve, The upcoming "Pauper's Photo Shop" will be an AtariWorks document describing some of the software/equipment/procedures for getting photos into IMG form for inclusion in AtariWorks - or any other program that uses IMG graphics, such as TimeWorks Publisher, EZText, Wordflair, First Word Plus, etc. The first part, which I hope to upload this week, deals with converting existing photo image files and processing them. I plan to deal with scanning in the second part and move on from there. It will be a series of AtariWorks documents posted at odd intervals. I am doing it as a "change of pace" thing while working on the database book. There are some good software packages starting to appear. An old reliable Migraph hand scanner with Touchup will get you photos into TIF format and allow you to crop them. Studio Photo, from Compo, is selling for about $100 (or slightly less on the street) and gives you a very good range of tools and filters for touching up photo files. The only thing it is lacking at this point is a mask function but Robert says that will be forthcoming in a Studio Photo Pro package later on. Re the GEM borders thing. Those are CVG's converted to GEM through Arabesque. AtariWorks is more tolerant of different "flavors" of GEM vector graphics than Calamus or Pagestream (or just about anything else for that matter). Your best bet for using those borders in Calamus is to download the latest Border Bundle program from the library and use it. It will allow you to set border size, width, and (if I remember correctly) change fills and mode (i.e., solid or transparent). You can also create your own border segments in Outline Art then use Border Bundle to make full blown borders with them. It's a very well thought out program - and it's Freeware! 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 72 Wed Mar 09, 1994 P.GRIFFITH2 [PGRIF] at 01:12 EST I just bought a used copy of Atariworks. Unfortunately for me it came on high density disks. If I have my local clone dealer transfer it to 720K disks will I still be able to install it? The nearest Atari dealer is not very helpful since I didn't buy it from him. Thanks. Paul ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 73 Wed Mar 09, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:09 EST Paul, I didn't know it was possible to get Works on HD disks ... are you _sure_ those are the originals and not copies? What do the labels look like? Anyway, if they're legal, you can use a clone to transfer the files and they should work fine. Though probably not the Install program. gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 74 Wed Mar 09, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:01 EST Paul, If they're legal they should have an Atari label on them. If you're a regular customer of that dealer, it's a little short-sighted not to accomodate you. Unless he's terribly busy it would be a small thing to do, and would create a lot of good will. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 75 Wed Mar 09, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:34 EST Paul, Yes, you'll be OK. It does not look to see what disk format it is on. But your local dealer would not help? That's odd. As Gnox says, I'd wonder how "original" the disks are. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 76 Wed Mar 09, 1994 BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp] at 18:00 EST All of the copies of Works that are distributed with the Falcon030 are on high density floppies. However, the installation program is designed to work with only two disk on those...not three. If your dealer can move everything from the high density disks to "regular" floppies...you'll be able to use the program. If you have an HD, you'll need to create a folder called WORKS, and a folder within the WORKS folder called WORKSYS. Put everything except for WORKS.PRG in the WORKSYS folder. I'm operating on the assumption that it is a legit copy. regards, Bob Brodie ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 77 Wed Mar 09, 1994 D.DINN [Scott D.] at 22:15 EST My Atari Works that I got with my Falcon030 came on HD disks. Does this mean that I did not get ORIGINAL disks...they have pre-printed labels on them, I can't recall if they have the Atari logo though. Since they were on HD I found it very hard to get everything over to my Stacy...ended up ZIPing everything to fit on 720K disks. I did get the manuals and stuff though for AW and Speedo GDOS. When I got my Atari Developer Kit back in 1985, I got this box of copied manuals and disks that were hand written...if I would have known then what I know now about software, I would have laughed at the guy trying to sell it too me! I paid $300 for xerox copy manuals 8" thick and 6 disks that were scribbled on...back in the good ole days! Scott ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 78 Wed Mar 09, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 22:47 EST Didn't a few of the first packages of AW get out on HD disk instead of 720K disk? It seems that I remember reading or hearing something about that. Could this be the case here? ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 79 Thu Mar 10, 1994 P.GRIFFITH2 [PGRIF] at 01:13 EST To All, The AtariWorks disks that I got are original, they say ATARI and all of the other pertinent stuff including the numbers 700028-01(Disk 1) and 700029- 01(Disk 2). Also a faint stamp at the bottom of the label that says Rev. A. It came with manual and quick reference card. I think these disks are the real thing. My local dealer would prefer that I buy all of my Atari products from him, which I used to do. Support for the things that I purchased was barely adequate. Maybe I am too demanding, but when I pay full price for a software package, I expect it to be a recent version. Anyway this is not the proper topic for me to discuss dealer support(at least for me, I get easily carried away). I don't know whether this program will install if I have my local clone dealer(formerly an Atari dealer) transfer the software to 720k disks, but I guess I'll have try it. This'll teach me to buy "bargains". Bob, I think that this is a legitimate copy. The seller did not send me the $5 upgrade coupon for AW. Is there any way that I can get one? Thanks. Paul ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 80 Thu Mar 10, 1994 CBARRON at 01:31 EST FWI = My Works and Speedgdos disks are black 720K disks. They were black with Atari Corp. labels. Mine was an atari works purchase set. Perhaps those on a FALCON installed, did use HD floppies. That would make sense as it will save 2- 3 diskettes per package and a falcon reads HD disks. I backed up my DD originals to HD floppies before installing them. For the install program to work the proper files must be on the proper disks, determined by the existance of a file. The DD diskettes were 'standard' 720K format, as far as I could determine. Bob - for what its worth the DD install will work from HD copies of disk1 and disk2 to one HD and disk 3 to a second. If all files are copied properly. The breakdown from HD to DD I don't recall, have to dig out the originals... That is how I installed it to my TT and backed up the originals.... ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 81 Thu Mar 10, 1994 W.HYNES at 02:29 EST I just got AtariWorks 1.207 today. I called my dealer and he said as far as he knew that was the only release Atari made. I got them on 3 720k disks. I'm going to use it on an STe 1.6 with a BJ200e printer. Anyone had the BPS with this set up? Even if there hasn't been a problem with this combo I want 1.2 in case the bug fix doesn't materialize. I may change systems in the future and that may be too late to get 1.2. It would also restrict potential buyers if I decided to sell it eventually. Was 1.2 ever available on 720k's or only with Falcons. This dealer sells Falcons. Thanks, -Bill- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 82 Thu Mar 10, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 12:31 EST Bill, Me again. >I just got AtariWorks 1.207 today. I called my dealer and he said as >far as he knew that was the only release Atari made. ... I'm going to >use it on an STe 1.6 with a BJ200e printer. Anyone had the BPS with >this set up? Yes I have had the BPS with a MSTe and a Canon BJ 200, no "e". BTW, your dealer is wrong. >Was 1.2 ever available on 720k's Yes it was. ~~Brian..Written on Thursday 10 March 1994 at 01:14 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 83 Thu Mar 10, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 23:10 EST Paul, They sound legit to me. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 84 Fri Mar 11, 1994 W.HYNES at 03:47 EST Brian, I'll mention this when I call Toad tommorrow. What exactly happens? Did you get 1.2? What version of Speedo do you use? Thanks. -Bill- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 85 Fri Mar 11, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 16:11 EST I have the first release of SPEEDO GDOS and it is great! no problems on my setup. People say that the BPS is only on the first page. I am too cheap to find out. Up here in the Great White North a BJ cartridge is about $35.00 bucks. (Anyone know of a cheaper Canadian price please EMail me.) Hence, I don't let it do the whole page. Heck the paper is wet enough as is {grin}! BTw, anyone has suggestions on how to use the database/spreadsheet to give a computer club the results of a club survey? Twenty questions with six short answer responses. ~~Brian..Written on Friday 11 March 1994 at 12:21 p.m. ADT It is still a good to great program! ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 86 Fri Mar 11, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 19:48 EST So when are all the software companies.... um _the_ software companies going to distibute their catalogs in AW database format? How about a shareware listing in database format? ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 87 Sat Mar 12, 1994 J.KISTNER [JK] at 02:38 EST Papa, I had always used Word Writer to print address labels. I decided to start using my AW WP for the task so I can add a graphic to the labels. Problem: WW has an "embedded printer command" feature that alows me to set the printer to a 6-line form feed but AW does not. I set my page length in AW to 1 inch and added a graphic, and it prints fine, but then I get the full page form feed. How should I go about getting my printer to understand I am printing a 1 inch document ??? I have a Panasonic KX-P1124. The front panel does not have an option for a 1 inch form, AW seems unable to tell it to do so, and I just failed at trying to create a MACRO in the printer to change page length. I used BASIC to send the command to the printer and tried saving it to the printer MACRO butb it didn't work. Also, I am not happy with my AW manual at all. I think it needs help. If you would repeat how I may order your AW book I will do so in short "order". Thank you. ---JK--- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 88 Sat Mar 12, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 06:30 EST JK, WW did not actually send a 6 line form feed to your printer. What it was actually sending was 6 line feeds. That is the method that most continuous label printing programs used. The size of the label was a known factor as was the inch fraction of each line feed. NO form feed was ever sent. AtariWorks has to send its data through Speedo which appends a true form feed command to the end of the print file (CHR$12 in Basic). I don't know of any way to get around the problem unless you can find a way to set the length of form _in_the_printer_ to match the label size plus space between labels. I no longer have my KXP1123 or the manual for it so I'm afraid I can't help you on that. The KXP has pretty reliable paper feed characteristics. You might try creating a label template 3 per row, 10 per column and use Avery 5160's in friction feed mode. Since the back of the Avery sheet is rather slick you may need to tape it to a length of fanfold paper. You might try that with some of your continuous feed labels to see if it's feasible. Oh, yeah - The Book is $16.95 plus $2.00 shipping from: Papa's Grafik Press 1228 N. School Street Honolulu, HI 96817 Let me know how that works out for you - or IF it works at all. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 89 Sat Mar 12, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 08:49 EST JK, Let us know what kind of setup works out for you. You'll like Papa's manual. Y'all, I have to tell you... I have a grandson born 3/10. My daughter had a girl a year ago in January, so she's gonna be busy. I wonder what she'll have next year if she doesn't get her husband fixed. :-) Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 90 Sat Mar 12, 1994 G.NELSON16 [GFN] at 10:00 EST JK, That was my experience also with the NEC driver on my Panasonic KX- p1123. Papa, Regarding Aladdin I save disk space by writing over old message files. Guess I couldn't return to the Stalker/Oracle combo. I kinda thought that 61 Memory.Sys had to do with the font cacheing. I know that I have gotten odd ibteractions with Speedo and other programs. Somethings I can't trace. I just got Geneva and AW works nicely with it but initially I was getting wierd interactions. I have to attribute that to ignorance and other stuff. Does the Monospaced 821 have the full 255 character set? Also is there a monospaced font that does contain the full character set? ( this has something to do with Geneva and the display font ) Scott, You cannoot compare a works based program to a stand alone such as EXCEL or any other standalone spreadsheet. AW spreadsheet is no worse than MS Works or Claris Works, it is just the nature of the beast. Of course I would like to see a professional version with bells and whistles out the gazoo, but I would not hold my breath very long for that ( ATARI suffers from an extreme case of tunnel vision). Famous People who at one time used Ataris Eddie Van Halen ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 91 Sat Mar 12, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 16:43 EST Ken, Congratulations, proud Grand-papa! ;-) GFN, Monospace 821 probably does contain the full character set. The problem is in which characters are mapped in and which are not. The full character set is not mapped in. A work around for Geneva and others that use a monospace for screen font is to use a 9 or 10 point GDOS bitmap font with all characters. You might find one in the library somewhere. The screen font files are not very large. Just put it in the folder with your other fonts, set your bitmap cache to a little more than the file size and add the font to your screen driver in ASSIGN.SYS. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 92 Sat Mar 12, 1994 G.ROUSH [Roushy] at 18:50 EST Fellas, Ordered the Bitstream fonts for DOS word perfect 6.0. Installed them easily and then picked the ones I wanted using the Font OUTLINE program. Boy, they sure are nice fonts. I catch they do better on laser or ink printers than 24- pin printers especially when doing some fancy stuff. The point is that it sure is easy using the fonts and being able to pick what you want, all this, without losing more memory. I can see what it would be like having more fonts. That brings me to a total of 64 fonts. I loaded them all in on my mega 2 ST. No problems using them and they printed fine. Sometimes I have BPS but most of the time no BPS at all. I still don 'tdon't know why I get BPS and why I don't. I do notice that when I use heavy bold selections, that most often BPS occurs. If I just use the regular fonts without highlighting to make bolder, it seems to not have any BPS at all. Strange...anyways, if anyone is thinking of whether they should get the Word Perfect fonts pack, it wouldn't hurt to get it for the price of approx 25 bucks. True, it may not have all the fonts you would like to have, but it is at least an addition to your font library. If only I have a faster CPU...oh well...it works and I am happy with AW. My wife refused to use it until I pleaded with my life. She finally tried it and alas, she is spoiled with it and uses it all the time now. Keep coming up with the good ideas fellas. Hope the BPS fix comes soon...soon???...ummmmmm...should I laugh if it's soon or later...I can't understand what is taking them so long...I talk too much. Keep them ideas for AW coming. I am mostly a lurker, but I do look in here almost everyday... Hi Papa...yep I am still around and using that good ol' guide of yours. Still waiting to hear when you'll tell me the story of how 'Papa' came into your world.... Roushy ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 93 Sat Mar 12, 1994 R.BROTHERHO2 at 19:57 EST It seems as though BPS just MAY be TOS related. A friend of mine has two computers, one with TOS 1.4, the other with TOS 2.05. TOS 1.4 prints fine, no sign of BPS, however when he runs the same version of AW on his TOS 2.05 machine he gets BIG black page problems. I have TOS 2.06 and I have had no problems ... great printouts. Both of us use the Panasonic KXP-1124 printer. Does anyone have any thoughts about this? It's amazing that ATARI hasn't checked this out by now. I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Rog. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 94 Sat Mar 12, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 23:10 EST Roushy, The reason it is taking so long for the fix is that Pradip is working on it during his "off time". They have him busy with the Jaguar and that makes it difficult for him to help here. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Saturday 12 March 1994 at 10:44 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 95 Sat Mar 12, 1994 D.FREELAND [SAXMAN] at 23:48 EST What exactly is Pradip doing in relation to the Jaguar? David ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 96 Sat Mar 12, 1994 J.FANNIN1 [littlejohn] at 23:57 EST Rog, I have tos 1.6. I get BPS off and on. littlejohn ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 97 Sun Mar 13, 1994 J.VENGROUSK1 [SHOWMAN] at 00:09 EST when does BPS happen? I'm runing a Mega4 and a BJ200e and am blissfully ignorant that I'm, supposed to be being plagued with this greml;in.... and so , it seesm, is my system. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 98 Sun Mar 13, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 00:09 EST They should have him fixing something that people are paying good money for that is broken. If it's Atari computer related though, it's on the back burner. I wished they would hurry up and get some support for the computer end again. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 99 Sun Mar 13, 1994 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 02:42 EST I also have TOS 1.4 and had bps a couple of times. The only thing I DO know is that your document, when saved, doesn't "have" BPS. I had just saved my work, and then had BPS. I re-booted, re-loaded the DOC, and had NO problem. Mike ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 100 Sun Mar 13, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 06:23 EST Roushy, Shame on you! Mega and you want more speed? The next time that thought crosses your mind just think what it would be like trying to run an equivalent applications on a 386SX-16 with Windoze!! Actually I must confess that even though my 8mHz STe's outrun my wife's 386SX-33 I would like a bit more speed myself. Everyone, Let's try to keep in mind that, whatever Atari may be lacking in computer support, it is the Jaguar dollars that will be providing that support in the future. Small comfort to be sure - but real world facts rarely are. I just finished part one of "The Pauper's Photo Shop" and uploaded it to the library. Hopefully it will be released by Sunday evening. This is a 10 page AtariWorks document detailing some procedures I have been using to incorporate photographic images in AtariWorks documents. Software used to process the samples in the document was GEM-View (convert whatevers to GIF) and PicSwitch 1.01 to process the image and convert it to IMG with appropriate gray dithering and scaling. This is the first in what may become a series of articles on the subject. The file is about 375k and will decompress to fill a 720k diskette. If you download it let me know what you think of it, how the photos reproduced on _your_ printer (they were "optimised" for HP DJ500) and what you would like to see covered in future articles. Due to popular demand (Roushy asked, didn't he?) here is the story of how 'Papa's Grafik Press' got its name. About a year ago I was doing some pamphlet style recipes for my wife to include with homemade goodies that she gives as gifts. They had a semi-Victorian, semi-Art Nouveau cover with a graphic and recipe inside. I had been trying various old-timey graphics for the back and stumbled across a nice turn-of-the-century illustration of a hand operated printing press. I cranked out one of the recipes with that graphic on the back. As I was taking it to show my wife my daughter intercepted me, grabbed it out my hands, looked at it for a while then let out a grunt. My wife asked what was going on and my little girl handed her the printout with the comment, "It's just Papa's graphic press." And there it is, Folks. One of those silly, mundane little things that tend to stick around like Hinode rice on the kitchen walls (Ah, but that's another story - you'll have to wait for it). Brian, Thanks for clarifying the stats on Pradip's efforts re BPS. I had hoped to be able to remove my "Caveat" in the Current Notes continuing review for next month which I will be writing this weekend. I guess it is not to be. The longer we live with this problem the more confusing it becomes. Is it AW, is it Speedo, is it TOS related, is it resolution related? Are all things relative? Are laws merely conventions? Is cyberspace the only _true_ reality? Is 'Papa' becoming neurotic - or is it creeping senility? Ga_a_a_ah!! It's time to play with some more GIF's then go to bed! 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 101 Sun Mar 13, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 07:12 EST Ken, Congratulations - should we call you GrandPapa? - Oops, I see Papa got to that one ahead of me! gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 102 Sun Mar 13, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 11:04 EST David, Re: Pradip and the Jag. I have no idea what he is doing. I am a charter member of "Hate the Jaguar Club" {grin}. Wayne, So do we all. However, don't hold your breath {grin}. Papa, Re: Jag speed money for AW. Perhaps or they might realize it is not worth placing money into the computer end of things? If you had a hit product would you want to support a drain on the bank account? BTW, it isn't resolution related to me; I have both a colour and mono monitors that exhibit the problem. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Sunday 13 March 1994 at 11:57 a.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 103 Sun Mar 13, 1994 G.NELSON16 [GFN] at 16:50 EST >Atari-ST RoundTable >Category 14, Topic 20 >Message 68 Mon Mar 07, 1994 >M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 04:11 EST > > GFN, > > ALL my spreadsheets scroll further than I would like - even the ones > on columnar pads. Oh, yeah - one exception - Accounts Receivable!! > 'Papa' >---------- > I understand. All my accounts receivable appear at times to be able to fit on the head of a pin. No need to worry about uncontrolled scrolling there. Another observation, the keyboard equivalents generally stray from the norm, such as ^F is generally the Font selector. This mnemonically makes sense, what is the connection with ^H ? (Heiroglyphics?) How about ^L for normal? Not a complaint just an observation on learning new ways of looking at keyboard equivalents. >Atari-ST RoundTable >Category 14, Topic 20 >Message 89 Sat Mar 12, 1994 >K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 08:49 EST >I have to tell you... I have a grandson born 3/10. My daughter had a girl a >year ago in January, so she's gonna be busy. I wonder what she'll have next >year if she doesn't get her husband fixed. :-) > >Ken Van > >---------- > Ken, It sure doesn't sound like he's broken. :-) GFN ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 104 Sun Mar 13, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 18:21 EST Thanks, Papa. Roushy, Glad you like the Bitstream fonts. How about breaking up those big paragraphs a bit? Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 105 Sun Mar 13, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 19:02 EST gnox, Thanks. I just got back from seeing both our grandchildren. Allyson is the cutest, smartest little girl ever and Austin is the cutest, smartest little boy ever. He's already nearly a third of the way to being 6 feet tall (or maybe 2 meters). :-) Maybe I can scan a photo and make it into a GIF to use in AW with Papa's new upload. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 106 Sun Mar 13, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 22:02 EST Brian, Add another member to the "Hate the Jaguar Club". :-) ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 107 Sun Mar 13, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 22:08 EST GFN, I suspect the key equivs make more sense in German than in English. That's where the big market for ST/TT/Falcon software is. I always look at the ^H as being "Hey, I want another font!" anyway... :) Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 108 Sun Mar 13, 1994 GRMEYER [Gordon/Sysop] at 22:10 EST One thing I wish the spreadsheet module could do is DATE functions. Is it possible I'm missing something? In Excel there is a =DATE(mm,dd,yy) function that is very handy, never knew how much I'd miss it when it wasn't there... :- ( ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 109 Sun Mar 13, 1994 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 22:24 EST Hi All, Thanks for the replies on A/Works. I tool the leap and ordered the program. It is ver. 1.2. Does this mean no BPS? Also, do I understand that A/Works will not work correctly with Warp 9 versions below 3.8? Thank you all for your time. Rob ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 110 Sun Mar 13, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 22:53 EST Yeah, I was just playing with the various DATE functionsions in ClarisWorks last night and they're amazing. An hour ago I check AW for DATE funtions and saw there weren't any. TEXTODATE, DATETOTEXT, DATE, and a couple others. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 111 Sun Mar 13, 1994 J.KISTNER [JK] at 23:39 EST Papa, Thanks for that info re: book order. re: Word Writer and labels, I kept my address labels in a WW .DOC file. I set page length in WW to 6 lines and it inserted a forced page break (and form feed) every 6 lines. Then, at the top of the .DOC I "embedded" a printer command, 27,67,6, which would set the page length on the printer to 6 lines whenever I printed from that file. It worked GREAT. Now AW/WP has no "embedded printer command" feature and I am stumped. I used a BASIC command to set the page length on the printer to 1 inch, then tried to save that to a printer MACRO, but it seems only to save info from the control panel of the 1124 to the MACRO. Nuts. Well, another solution might be to repeat my address label info 11 times on the 11 inch page and send that to the printer with my labels installed. I would not mind having to print labels 11 at a time only, but with an included graphic it will be a real hassle to get the proper spacing set up just right. I could always go back to WW to print labels, but I wanted to get a graphic on there. We'll see. ---JK--- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 112 Mon Mar 14, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:42 EST Rob, > It is ver. 1.2. Does this mean no BPS? Yes - you're one of the lucky ones! > Also, do I understand that A/Works will not work correctly with Warp 9 > versions below 3.8? It will work, as long as you don't print. ;) When you print, you have to turn off Warp 9's acceleration first, or else your system will crash after printing. The upgrade to Warp 9 3.8 is worth the $$ anyway. GFN, I think ^F is the standard now for Find (i.e. search) functions, so that was already taken, as it were. As for ^H, "hieroglyphics" is the best mnemonic I've heard yet! :) gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 113 Mon Mar 14, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 20:35 EST Ken, Do us up an AW document with photo of you and the baby - I'd love to see it! JK, If your labels have no vertical separation space you should be able to set up with no top and bottom margins. Position the bitmap graphic where you want it (it will stay in its relative position on each label). Type in the text, style it as desired then highlight it. Press [Alternate] while clicking on Copy under the Edit menu. This will copy the text as a GEM metafile graphic. Now press [Delete] followed by [Control]-V (or click Paste under the Edit menu). Your text is now reinserted as a GEM graphic. Hit [Control]-Z until it is selected then slippy-slide it around until it is exactly where you want it. Its position is now relative to the upper left corner of label #1 and will stay in that same position on each label. Note that this is only going to work if there is NO vertical separation between labels. If there is you have to compensate for it by adding the width of the separation to the page length. Print a trial run on plain paper with grid turned on then compare it with your labels. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 114 Mon Mar 14, 1994 F.MATZEN [F.MATZEN] at 21:03 EST Actually there are several new programs for the Atari that enable you to manipulate photos. Studio Photo is one. It retails for around $100 and will let you work with over 12 different graphics formats, including CD-Rom, in any resolution on any Atari ! You can even do 24-bit images ona monochrome monitor. If you need your photos digitized, go to the PHOTO & VIDEO Roundtable (page 660) and get info on FREE scanning. Basically you can send up to 5 photos at a time plus $3.00 return postage and then download either JPG or GIF scans of your photos. The format is your choice and the size of the photos should not exceed 8x10. This is my next move since I also needed the CHEAP solution!! I use a 1040 STe with TOS 1.62 and a Panasonic KX-P1123 and I have NEVER seen BPS. Until I read some messages about it, I had never heard of it. Since I am in Denver maybe it's the altitude ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 115 Mon Mar 14, 1994 J.KISTNER [JK] at 23:51 EST Papa, Hmmmmmmm, when you type it out that is pretty complex, but I will give it a whirl as soon as I get the time. I am in no hurry. Huh, the ability to send specific printer commands through AW would eliminate all that, or the ability to create custom printer drivers. WW goes back to the virtual stone age of the ST and it can do it, why not AW ???? Of course I am delighted with the many advances present in AW WP. Guess I am just greedy. ---JK--- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 116 Tue Mar 15, 1994 W.HYNES at 02:13 EST Papa, Downloaded your Pauper's guide and the photos were out of place, overlapping the text in most cases (on screen and in printing). I went in and moved them OK. Any idea what might cause this? I ordered your Papa's Graphic guide from my dealer and should get it tommorrow. I thought I saw something about some new pages. How can I get them if they aren't included. (How do I know if they aren't included?) BTW, the info on GEM-View and Picswitch was really helpful. -Bill- P.S. Cute kid. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 117 Tue Mar 15, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:11 EST Bill, The pictures were "optimised" for 300 dpi output to HP Deskjet. I did the composition and layout on a monochrome monitor. I have a suspicion that there may be some lack of consistency in reproducing files created on with one set of monitor/printer drivers on a system using a different set of monitor/printer drivers (or possibly a different version of Speedo). I have recently made the home setup into a classic two-headed beast with the addition of a used Thompson color monitor. I will check the file again on that monitor. BTW, what kind of printer do you have? How did the photos reproduce for you? GEM-View has a tremendous range of possibilities. I am still trying to figure out how best to use most of it. It seems that it's main strenght is in image preview and conversion but there is the also the ability to apply different dithering patterns than PicSwitch has. Imagecopy 2 is a fantastic value at only $35. I'm using it for all my screen shots now. It does not do "on screen, real time" updates of changes in brightness/contrast/etc but does allow you to scale images either in percentage or inch sizes _and_ print the image to an IMG file. Unfortunately the IMG's must be run through PicSwitch or IdealIMG to correct the header information (printer specifics). That "cute kid", now 17, is taller than me and outweighs me by a good 50 pounds. He threatened to end my misery if I published his baby pictures. Fortunately he doesn't have a GEnie account! All copies of the book that are in stock at your dealer contain the latest revision pages. There were only 11 copies sent to Computer Studio in November/December that were pre-revision. Sheldon was supplied with revision pages for those copies. JK, The description of the steps in doing a metafile copy, delete, paste is more difficult to comprehend when written than when demonstrated. It's really a very simple process and comes in quite handy for a number of things. All, Studio Photo is an _excellent_ package for photo processing. It is lacking the ability to mask portions of the image and does not have a global %sharpening capability but otherwise it is superb. Speed of processing a 24 bit image is acceptable even on an 8 mHz system. List price at $99.95 with street price at $80-$85 keeps it within my "Pauper" parameters. The demo of VIDI-ST12 on the cover disk of one of the British mags in January is a fully functioning bit of software and also has some excellent tools for photo processing. It does have the disadvantage of running in ST low resolution but makes up for it by giving a very nice grayscale rendition of your photo. Style from Zocra Technology at $35 is another package worth looking into. There is a demo and press release in the library. I intend to order it since it does some things better, IMHO, than Studio Photo - at least for monochrome grayscale work. I am looking forward to the review of Pix-Art from Omikron that is to appear in next month's issue of one of the British mags (ST-Format?). Hopefully it will allow editing IMG's larger than screen size and _also_ GIF's (TIF's, too, if you please). US price should be around $70 by my figuring. I plan to continue the "Pauper's Photo Shop" as time permits (and as I figure out how do some of those things myself!). I am concerned at this point whether the files reproduce adequately on different printers. I would appreciate any feedback in that regard. Please let me know what type of printer and driver and how contrast, resolution, greyscale reproduction and detail fared on your equipment. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 118 Tue Mar 15, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:37 EST Bill, I just loaded the file with the Thompson monitor in medium resolution. The images are actually in their correct positions but the text is offset and the offset error is cumulative. This is really a rather vital piece of information. It appears that AtariWorks files _are_ resolution dependent. A mixed text/graphic file created in hi-res does not reproduce properly when opened in medium-res. It may run the other way also. I'll have to give it a try. I also tried running the Thompson color monitor with SEBRA.PRG in the AUTO folder to synthesize hi-res. I loaded the file and _everything_ was in the correct position. I will have to make a point of informing people with medium resolution monitors to use SEBRA when loading and printing my stuff. I wonder if this same phenomenon occurs with files created on the Falcon. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 119 Tue Mar 15, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 18:52 EST Papa, Ha, ha! First I have to get a picture of me and the baby. I'm usually the guy behind the camera. F. Matzen, $3 return postage plus how much for the job? Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 120 Tue Mar 15, 1994 G.NELSON16 [GFN] at 20:05 EST Papa, I've gone to utilizing the Warp 9 Fonts with Geneva. It ias generally a change of pace from the system 6x6 font. I am not sure which gdos fonts consited of the complete character set, but using Warp nine fonts as I said gives me a nice variation. > Everyone, > > Let's try to keep in mind that, whatever Atari may be lacking in > computer support, it is the Jaguar dollars that will be providing > that support in the future. Small comfort to be sure - but real world > facts rarely are. > Unfortunately Papa this is Atari up to their continuing tricks. They have not changed the way they treat their customers in the nearly 9 years I have been using their products. The Pradip thing is just more of the same. (of course it becomes tiring to harp on the same things year in and year out and never see anything change except we all grow older or move to, if not greener pastures, at least pastures that provide a fresh supply of food.) >Atari-ST RoundTable >Category 14, Topic 20 >Message 102 Sun Mar 13, 1994 >BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 11:04 EST > > >Papa, > Re: Jag speed money for AW. Perhaps or they might realize it is not worth >placing money into the computer end of things? If you had a hit product would >you want to support a drain on the bank account? >~~~~Brian ... Written on Sunday 13 March 1994 at 11:57 a.m. ADT > If they are not careful the Jaguar will go down with a 457 magnum in its chest. Word on the street and some preliminary reviews I have read (Fortune for one) have been less than raving. Now we have the power PC,s hitting the streets starting at 1800.00 fortunately the mac software all needs to be rewritten to take advantage of the chip. Still can you really see Atari making any more inroads into the computer world. They blew thier bid in 1988. GFN still hanging in there | | |]] ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 121 Wed Mar 16, 1994 W.HYNES at 03:06 EST Papa, I'm using a BJ200e printer. I only printed in draft to test it so the quality isn't that good. I'll print again in final and see how much better it is. I use the computer almost exclusively for music so I'm a little green with the printing end of things. You've been a big help. Just read your second post. Is SEBRA available in the libs here? Thanks, -Bill- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 122 Wed Mar 16, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 04:11 EST Bill, SEBRA is in the library. Just do a search with SEBRA as the key and it will give you the file number then you can download it - it's small and you can leave it active in the AUTO folder all the time. It will stop and ask if you want it to install itself. Its not as clear and sharp as a monochrome monitor but it is the best of the bunch I have tried. Off the top of my head I would expect the photos will probably come out darker when you go to quality mode. You will also probably see more compression of the darker shades in the gray scale. Lower resolution lets more white show through from the paper which lightens the image. Higher resolution gives a smoother appearance at the expense of being darker. The photos look better on my Deskjet than they do on my laser printer. The Deskjet ink is not as opaque as the laser toner. Thanks for the feedback - it's just what I'm looking for. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 123 Wed Mar 16, 1994 B.SEMAAN [BOSEM] at 05:25 EST I've got a couple of queries - First, I have temporory custody of an HP 550C and am having trouble getting it to print properly in AW/Speedo. The top (& bottom) margins are off. To get a 1" top margin I have to set top at .6 an bottom at 1.4". No telling what kind of mess headers and footers would make. Is anyone using this printer with AW. If so have you had margin trouble of this kind? And what is your opinion of the current Speedo driver's usefulness with the 550C. Do you think a separate driver should be done? Next, what would be a good weight paper to use on a DeskJet for printing AW wordprocessing files on both sides of paper. 20# copier paper is obviously bunk for this but I don't want to spend more than I have to either. Comments, anyone? I also have an Epson LQ 800. I don't think the current drivers do it justice. Any pre-570 LQ owners out there have an opinion on this? Would you like to see a driver specifically for the non-scalable font LQ printers and their compatibles to tap more than one graphics mode, and end the confusion of what driver to use, etc. Bob ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 124 Wed Mar 16, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 13:13 EST Bill, SEBRA is available in the libs. Just search on SEBRA. It is by far the best and most stable mono emulator I have seen. I was not impressed with the draft mode of the BJ Speedo driver. Rather than output to the BJ in a 180x180 dpi mode, it just seems to skip every other line of dots. Spread sheet output, for instance, will often be missing separator lines. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 10:55 AM Mountain Time Wednesday, March 16, 1994 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 125 Wed Mar 16, 1994 BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp] at 18:45 EST JK, The reason that there is no "printer driver create" program for SpeedoGDOS akin to Word Writers is that SpeedoGDOS is far more complex that the simple output that Word Writer utilized. Speedo is cable of outputting to a multitude of different devices, including printers, plotters, cameras, fax modems, and more! ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 126 Wed Mar 16, 1994 R.WILSON36 [Bob Wilson] at 19:10 EST Bob-BRODIE Speedo may be capable of outputting to all sorts of things but we are unlikely to ever see anything. Perhaps if you made the development specs PD the poor suffering user might have a chance to do something. We can't depend on 3rd party because any self respecting commercial company has taken the hint and left. When Sam tells Ron Luks rthat ATARI is out of the computer business how many developers do you think are h\going to stick around. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 127 Wed Mar 16, 1994 P.BITHELL [PFLIP] at 22:57 EST Papa, I downloaded your file on the falcon with Blowup @880 x 512 rez (16 color) and had the same problem. Also, I can't get the graphics to print, all the files (STW,IMG, etc) are in the same diretory and AW seems to be finding them OK. BTW I'm using a HPDJ 500 with AW 1.2 and Speedo GDOS 4.1. Any suggestions ?? PFLIP ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 128 Thu Mar 17, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 01:59 EST PFLIP, When you print the file do the graphics come out as "X'ed" boxes? If so AW can't find the files. They all need to be in the root of a disk in drive A (not in a folder). There appears to be some screen resolution dependence in the way AW writes its files. I suspect the font parameters are interpreted differently for the various resolutions. When I checked the file in ST medium res it appeared that the text had a shift downward that was cumulative through the document. Does the same thing happen if you load the file in 640 X 480 2 color mode? 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 129 Thu Mar 17, 1994 W.HYNES at 06:10 EST Papa and Brian, Thanks for the SEBRA info. I'll give it a shot. -Bill- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 130 Thu Mar 17, 1994 BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp] at 14:45 EST Bosem, I doubt if you will see a separate driver done for the HP-550C. At least not by Atari. The only other companies that I recall seeing printer drivers from for GDOS other than Atari are TimeWorks and Migraph. The 550C is _supposed_ to be downwardly compatible with the 500 series, which is downwardly compatible with the 500, the Plus, and the original DeskJet. I have a Plus, and find the driver to work fine. I set up all the dip switches in the DJ+ ages ago, but it seems to me that one of the settings related to how much space to allocate for the beginning and ending of the page. Might be easier to set that via the printer than via Works. I've been using a Hammermill 24lb paper with my DJ+ for quite sometime now. Strathmore Legacy is also very nice, albeit pricey. The heavier papers don't seem to have as much problem with bleeding arond the letters when they print. Re the LQ-800, hey I've got an Epson LQ-510. The LQ-570 driver didn't work for me at all! Printed nothing but garbage. On the other hand, the Star NB- 24 driver works great...I'm pretty happy with the output there. But then again, between a laser at work, a DJ in my room, and a Star inkjet for the road, I've come to expect a lot less out of a dot matrix printer. Bob Wilson, There is no way that Atari will make the development specs for SpeedoGDOS drivers PD. We have a development kit. If you're interested in it, contact MIKE-FULTON in GEnie mail. Re your comment about self respecting developers, I understand your frustration, but also feel compelled to point out that Migraph is still developing and selling products for Atari Computers. I spoke with Kevin Mitchell today, and Liz earlier this week. Their hand scanner seems to be doing quite well. regards, Bob Brodie ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 131 Fri Mar 18, 1994 T.CARMAN [Tom Carman] at 02:39 EST Bob, I have to admit, even as an Atari devotee who has remained faithful over the long haul, I find your response about the HP-550c driver rather frustrating. It was only about a year ago that Atari was hyping the Falcon and talking about all the great things that they were going to do with this machine. This was the answer to your Personal Multimedia needs. Voice mail was going to be available from a product named Blackmail that was already in development. Yes, I know that was 3rd party, but that didn't stop you from using it to promote the machine. An adapter would be available for SLM owners which we have had to wait a dog's age to see and for many came too late (having already had to find alternative printing solutions). I could easily go on. The point is Atari are great at hyping the machine, but are pathetic at supporting their product. Now you seem to be telling us that SpeedoGDOS, which is supposed to be the new printing standard for future Atari machines is a lame duck. The only printer drivers you will ever see folks are the ones that came with it. The users cry out for a solution to Black Page Syndrome and Atari's response seems to be, well we may get around to it one of these years. What ever happened to customer support and corporate responsibility? I realize this is not your fault personally Bob, but something stinks in Sunnyvale. Tom Carman ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 132 Fri Mar 18, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:03 EST Bob, I won't get into general comments about support, but I still don't see why Atari doesn't simply send Atari Works 1.2 to BPS sufferers. Surely the cost would be minimal considering the good will it would generate. gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 133 Fri Mar 18, 1994 F-D-PERCIVAL [Fred P.] at 07:31 EST Tom, If you want support, buy a Jaguar. Otherwise expect to be slapped down when you ask for more gruel. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 134 Fri Mar 18, 1994 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 11:15 EST By the way -- the "SpeedoGDOS Construction Set" that Bob mentioned is not going to enable many developers to write drivers for SpeedoGDOS. The name "construction set" is a real misnomer; the only things in this package are the source code for a couple of printer drivers, and some pre-compiled library files. There is _no_ documentation provided at all. To write a new driver with this "construction set" would take a _lot_ of trial-and-error work -- and there would be no guarantee of ending up with a driver that would be compatible with all GDOS programs, since there are no guidelines, no hints, no manual... nothing. From a technical standpoint, it's frankly pathetic. As a developer myself, there's no way I'd try to write a printer driver using this package -- and the scarcity of drivers is de facto proof that I'm not the only one who feels this way. I suspect the reason Atari makes it so hard to get this package is that they're embarrassed by how lame it is. But I guess I understand, after all; Atari has limited resources and has to put them all into their whiz-bang game machine -- they can't exert any effort on something so unimportant as printer drivers for their computer owners. - Charles @ CodeHead Tech ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 135 Fri Mar 18, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 13:28 EST The natives are getting restless. Charles at Newstar seems to have his Speedo chops together. Maybe folks can convince him to work on a few drivers? New drivers only enhance the utility of his StraightFax package. It's amazing that it takes some people such a long time to realize that, with great misgivings, it's just possible they've been orphaned. The hope of the Atari Enthusiast springs eternal. Personally, my stress level dropped a lot when I added a Powerbook 100 and ClarisWorks to my collection. They're blowing out the PB 145 now. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 136 Fri Mar 18, 1994 J.P.C. at 19:43 EST Charles is _very_ clever. I talked with him recently and he told me that he had just finished a driver for a program that he didn't even have a copy of. Seems as if he and the program's author worked things out via internet! ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 137 Fri Mar 18, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 20:16 EST Charles is a very cool and clever guy. Now that I think about it both Charles _and_ Charles are very clever guys. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 138 Fri Mar 18, 1994 P.BITHELL [PFLIP] at 20:19 EST Papa, Well I READ the read me file you included in the archive explaining to put all the files in the root directory of drive A... Boy do I feel sheepish . I also ran AW in 640x400 2 color rez. and the pics still kinda got scrunched although they printed fine, BUT - the page numbers all printed on their own page at the very top... oh well.. It is still a very impressive document... Well done !! Thank you for your help and all your support. PFLIP ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 139 Fri Mar 18, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 21:12 EST Bob, I have to second gnox's feelings. Ver 1.207 _is_ defective. Until the BPS fix is available Ver. 1.2 should be supplied to anyone who can show proof of purchase of 1.207. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 140 Fri Mar 18, 1994 F.MATZEN [F.MATZEN] at 22:59 EST The job is FREE !!!!! That's what's so great. Although to retrieve the graphic you still have to download it, but .......... As for your "Portrait" just use a self-timer or air cable release or get that lazy dog to do it ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 141 Fri Mar 18, 1994 G.FUQUAY [GGF] at 23:02 EST >Bob Wilson, > >There is no way that Atari will make the development specs for SpeedoGDOS >drivers PD. We have a development kit. If you're interested in it, contact >MIKE-FULTON in GEnie mail. Re your comment about self respecting developers, >I understand your frustration, but also feel compelled to point out that >Migraph is still developing and selling products for Atari Computers. I spoke >with Kevin Mitchell today, and Liz earlier this week. Their hand scanner seems >to be doing quite well. > >regards, > >Bob Brodie > The big question that most people have, IMHO is, is Atari still in the computer business or not? I have had an Atari computer since the ST first came out in 1985. I bought a 520 St with monitor and ST314 floppy drive for $1185. Then not long after I upgraded it to 1 meg and added a SH204 hard drive. Not long after that, I bought a SM124 monitor. Then when the 520 bit the dust, I bought a Mega STe 2 to replace it. I've since added 2 meg ram and a SLM605 laser printer. I have bought over the years over a $1,000 dollars or more in software to use on this system, most of it new purchases. I know that there are many more users out there that have done the same and more, because they *love* to use the Atari computers. Now, we ask the question once more, Mr. Brodie, is there going to be an Atari computer one or two years in our future? Respectfully, Gary Fuquay ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 142 Sat Mar 19, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 00:36 EST My advice is to just assume they went out of business in 86, it makes things a lot easier. That way you get surprised ocassionally but the rest of the time you get pretty much what you expect. Charles, Atari doesn't have enough developers to financially support developer kits. It's probably cheaper for them not to bother. After all the user already bought a computer, Atari Works and Speedo so it doesn't cost them anything for it not to print. I imagine thats the sort of reasoning that got them where they are today... ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 143 Sat Mar 19, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 01:17 EST > My advice is to just assume they went out of business in 86, it makes >things a lot easier. That way you get surprised ocassionally but the >rest of the time you get pretty much what you expect. And I thought I was the only one. You know, I've been whining ever since the "TT Tower". Things have gotten a _little_ better in some ways but in more ways there's been a decline. By now we should realize that whining doesn't help. It doesn't even make us feel better. Either _buy_ software that's supported--commercial or shareware--or distribute your software needs to another platform _in addition_ to the Atari. If the "jokes" in AtariWorks are ever "fixed" we'll all be pleasantly surprised. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 144 Sat Mar 19, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 03:01 EST > What ever happened to Customer Support and Coporate Responsibility? Atari never had it or knew anything about it. That is something you get from the other guys. There is no possibility we have been orphaned. It's a reality. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 145 Sat Mar 19, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:18 EST OK, we've been orphaned. I won't argue with that. I don't have time, because I'm _still_ spending far too much time discovering and using great new (to me) software for this orphaned machine. This week it's Geneva and Teradesk ... oh well. ;) gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 146 Sat Mar 19, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 08:50 EST I just got word that a geologist at the University of Toronto has "a font in Adobe Type 1 and True Type formats (both for the PC) that contains geological symbols." These are available via anonymous ftp, but maybe via E-mail, too. If there's a way I can use them I'll ask. Is there a way to convert either of these formats for use in AW? I guess I could use the Type 1 in PGS with UltraScript. gnox, Right! I'm disappointed with Atari, but it says something about their computers that they just keep jugging along, anyway. How many other computers would have survived the kind of support ours have had? Mine does everything I ask of it, and I would dread having to switch platforms. The price may be right on the hardware now, but the software ain't cheap for something comparable to what I use frequently on the Atari. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 147 Sat Mar 19, 1994 S.FOSKETT [Lancer] at 14:39 EST While I agree that Atari has screwed up, I must say I really like AtariWorks!!! It's a GREAT program. I have a whole pile of suggestions for im[rovements, though... *grin* .s. (my second GEnie post! I came HERE for Atari support!!!) ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 148 Sat Mar 19, 1994 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 14:52 EST Gnox, Thanks for your information on BPS and ver 1.2. Also, I'll need to upgrade to Warp9 3.8, I've put it off way too long. But will A/Works work under Geneva? Thanks--Rob ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 149 Sat Mar 19, 1994 G.NELSON16 [GFN] at 17:39 EST >Atari-ST RoundTable >Category 14, Topic 20 >Message 107 Sun Mar 13, 1994 >A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 22:08 EST > >GFN, > >I suspect the key equivs make more sense in German than in English. That's >where the big market for ST/TT/Falcon software is. > >I always look at the ^H as being "Hey, I want another font!" anyway... :) > >Al > >---------- > Since my familiartiy with German is meagre to say the least, I will take your word for it. (though my sister in law is german). >Atari-ST RoundTable >Category 14, Topic 20 >Message 108 Sun Mar 13, 1994 >GRMEYER [Gordon/Sysop] at 22:10 EST > >One thing I wish the spreadsheet module could do is DATE functions. Is it >possible I'm missing something? In Excel there is a =DATE(mm,dd,yy) function >that is very handy, never knew how much I'd miss it when it wasn't there... :- >( > > > > >---------- > I've used date functions in LDW and KSpread 4 and have never gotten the results that I expected. (I think I just don't understand them that well) gnox, ^F is used in PGS to call fonts I guess I was just used to that designation. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 150 Sat Mar 19, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 18:32 EST Am I "orphaned"? I don't feel like I am. Perhaps my opinion of support is based on my prior experiences as a Tandy Color Computer user. Support there was non-existent from Radio Shack but superb throughout the user community. Why did I migrate to Atari? I needed something quicker, more intuitive to use and capable of DTP work. What did I find? A users helping users support base second to none. A wealth of PD and shareware programs of a quality that puts PC's and Macs to shame. An operating system that is inherently more stable than DOS, Mac or Amiga in enabling new software to run on old machines. Sure, I get frustrated with seeming lack of sensitivity to user needs from Atari. Being a businessman myself I can understand that they must prioritize their resources (especially personnel). When a decision has to be made to expend those resources on a $100 product with potential sales of a few thousands per annum or a $250 item that will sell in the ten's of thousands (even if at a lower per unit profit margin) the choice becomes obvious. Atari as a corporate entity is _not_ going to live or die based on its response to the AtariWorks BPS problem. What will happen if they don't cure BPS? The user base will step in to see that BPS sufferers get a copy of version 1.2. That inevitably will lead to AtariWorks ver 1.2 becoming one of the most pirated programs in Atari history. I look at my Atari systems as a "commodity". They allow me to do things _I_ want to do the way _I_ want to do them at a price _I_ can afford. I perceive Atari users, developers and, yes, Atari themselves as a "Community" that has enabled, encouraged and expanded my life's allotment of experience. For that I am indebted. The "Community" is a rare treasure, indeed, and will long outlive the "commodity". In my NOT SO HUMBLE opinion. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 151 Sat Mar 19, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 18:39 EST Lancer, There's plenty of support here! Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 152 Sat Mar 19, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 22:52 EST I'm not sure third party developers _can_ fix AW legally. When _I_ bought AtariWorks at Glendale I bought with the assumption there would be no further updates. I had ClarisWorks (already upgraded to 2.0) on my PB100 so I wasn't antsy about much. CW blows away all the other "Works" programs on the Mac. It has translaters for about 50 file formats (A mild exageration) so I can go from and to a lot of different applications. That was my first suggestion for AW and it appeared to be ignored. I can take a hint. Works is a nice program but it's about the best the ST is going to get and it's already at least two generations behind the rest of the world. So I'm NOT saying it's bad, just that I'm not expecting a lot more from it. And, as I think about it, the Speedo output is crystal clear. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 153 Sat Mar 19, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:07 EST Kenne, We're been orphaned by Atari, but we have a good set of step-uncles in the 'Heads, the 'Gribs, Compo, NewStar, Anodyne, Missionware, CyberCube and many others. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 154 Sat Mar 19, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 23:26 EST Orphaned by the Company that built the computer that is. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 155 Sat Mar 19, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 23:55 EST Rob, Yes, AtariWorks works fine under Geneva. At least I haven't run into any problems, but then I've only had Geneva for 3 days! Ken & Papa, Necessity is the mother of community. :) Thanks, Mom! gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 156 Sun Mar 20, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 01:08 EST Those step-uncles aren't _moneyed_ step-uncles. They have to eat and, personally, I don't think the platform can offer continued user base to support them enough to even update existing software to work with any hope of return on investment. There are still folks supporting their C64 and Apple][ programs too. There's a big growth market for you. All I'm trying to say is 'this is it." We're not in a tunnel so there's no need to look for a light at the end of it. It's always been this way. People have higher hopes for the ST platform than they should rationally have. Ever since the "Expansion Box," the CD ROM and the "AMY" chip mentioned in the BYTE _cover story_ about the 520 ST failed to materialize I've felt that I'll believe it when I see it when it comes to hardware. Okay, I got a little suckered in by the VME hype when they introduced the MSTE, but I didn't buy the MSTE because of promised VME interfaces. And then there's software. PaperClip Elite, ST Talk Pro, Masterlink, and Zoomracks III. You pays your money and you takes your chances. I was only burned on ST Talk Pro. Except for the users with BPS, AW is an okay program. With luck there will eventually be fixes and third party enhancements. Then we can all happily use the program until all the chips in our systems return to the sand from whence they came, many eons from now. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 157 Sun Mar 20, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 01:20 EST Lancer, And HERE is the best place to get support! We're happy to see ya, pal! Kenne, I doubt that Works is the best the ST is going to get. Cal 3 and That's Write 3 are far better word processors, and TW3 is light years ahead in print quality, among other Speedo-related things. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 158 Sun Mar 20, 1994 T.CARMAN [Tom Carman] at 01:41 EST Ken, I agree the ATARI ST/STe/TT/Falcon line of computers are great. Atari has the ability to build some pretty nice hardware and I have no desire to switch platforms. I own a Mega ST with 4 megs of RAM, a T25 accelerator, TOS 2.06, ATSpeed C16 Emulator, High Density drive and 170 meg hard drive. At the office I have a TT with 240 meg Hard drive. I have been an Atari user since 1988 and have thousands invested in BOTH hardware and software (Geneva and AtariWorks/Speedo being my latest acquisitions), however, my love affair with the machine does not blind me to the shortcomings of Atari Corp. I have been very loathe over the years to gripe when Atari's support and speed of development seemed wanting. I realize they are a small company with limited resources. There is no excuse, however, for their behaviour on the AtariWorks/Speedo affair. Even small companies like CodeHead and Gribnif (Where would we be without them?) are able to issue patches and updates to their software. They realize they have a responsibility to their customers if there is a glaring (should I say crippling) bug in their software, and they fix it. Perhaps it could be argued that they must be more responsive in order to keep what limited clientele they have left, and I would have to agree, but I think we all know that if it were a straight profit-making issue these guys would have been gone long ago. The fact is that CodeHead and Gribnif have survived in this market because they make superior software and they go the extra mile to support their customers. The fact remains that AtariWorks and SpeedoGDOS are essentially brand new products. Atari has hyped SpeedoGDOS as the new graphics/printing standard on Atari computers. A standard is something you support. A standard is something you continue to develop and improve so that other developers will make use of it and design programs that have some compatibility with one another. Unless Atari starts sending some different signals, however, that is not going to happen with Speedo. Bob's response to the questions about printer drivers seems to be 'Sorry folks, this is all you get. There is no money in computers right now, so all you who were gullible enough to buy our hype about the Falcon and Speedo are just out of luck. Maybe some Third-party developer will eventually come out with a fix.' Of course, Bob is far too good at his job to put it in those terms, but that seems to be the message behind the message. Bob, I would love to hear you tell me none of this is true. I would love to hear you tell me Version 2 of AtariWorks will be out soon (You remember, that upgrade I got the coupon for). I would love to hear you tell me that the bugs in Speedo are being fixed and that new printer drivers will be released to fill out the range of compatibility and keep up with the new printers coming to market. I would love to hear you tell me this, but something tells me you aren't going to. In the meantime, Ken, I continue to enjoy using my Atari computers and the great programs coming out for them from people like the CodeHeads and Gribnif (I should mention Oregon Research too), but I really don't expect much from Atari themselves. Bob does his job well and he has been a excellent spokesman/ombudsman for us users, but when the folks he works for decide they have no moral obligation to support the products they have promoted he can't do a whole lot. Tom Carman (The Sermonator) P.S. I just read the rest of my messages and I have to agree with those of you who are applauding the User-base support on the Atari platform. It is second to none. The Atari 'Community' is great. My gripe is with Atari 'Corporation'. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 159 Sun Mar 20, 1994 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 03:04 EST For the past 6 weeks, I have been working on my girlfriend's "dinausour" An IBM XT286 with 640K and DOS. I have never used DOS before, and in my humble opinion DOS is a piece of crap. I have never been more happy,than to swivel my chair from that stupid computer, and crank up my 1040 STfm and be able to WORK with it. Two nights ago, I got home and she was *trying* to learn wordperfect for DO DOS; she had used WordStar for the past 18 years. She was trying to write up a piece with three numbered columns. I said, "what point size are you going to use? (Wordperfect 5.1)" She looked at me funny and I suggested she try AW. In about 5 minutes she was typing away, ANd when it came time to print, I hit "SELECT ALL" , and I moved over the columns, so they looked better. She was very impressed. I can see why IBM uses windose now; ther are trying to do what the Mac and Ataris have been doing for a long time. (Exept WE don't need 8 Megs to run comfortably). I'm stayin folks. My sequencer is Notator LOGIC, one of the best around. Who needs IBM or Macs ? With all the WONDERFUL people here on Genie, and Atarians in particular, we have the BEST support, OURSELVES. To steal a line from Rod MacDonald of St-informer fame, " KEEP ON KEEPIN ON !....... " MIKE ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 160 Sun Mar 20, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 04:16 EST Dos? Euck! My friend the complete computer idiot can get around in Windows. Heck, _I_ can get around in Windows when I have to show him how to do something and I hate DOS. Atari_Works_ is as good as it will get. _If_ it gets any better you can be pleasantly surprised. It served its purpose. It was a bundle to go with the Falcon--an offering of compatible software to get the Falcon user up and running in little or no time. I bought it because I nagged about "standards" for 7 years. Now we have a standard for database, wp, and spreadsheets. It's unused. I invisioned software catalogs in the AW database format. And equipment comparisons in the spreadsheet. I thought there would be manuals in the wp format. I'm a happy bi-platform person. With two platforms to work with I can afford to be happy. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 161 Sun Mar 20, 1994 R.BEATTY3 [Buffalo Bob] at 04:27 EST Bosem, I used to use a DJ Plus, and others recommended I use 25% cotton bond, which worked very well for me. I also used 100% cotton bond with excellent results. Bob Beatty Neutronics Honolulu, HI ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 162 Sun Mar 20, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 04:37 EST Papa, Well said! We're not exactly orphaned we're just in the Jaguar cycle now. Atari is only able to focus on one product at a time. Eventually they'll get around to Atariworks or their computers again. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 163 Sun Mar 20, 1994 G.NELSON16 [GFN] at 11:26 EST >Atari-ST RoundTable >Category 14, Topic 20 >Message 130 Thu Mar 17, 1994 >BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp] at 14:45 EST > >Bosem, > >I doubt if you will see a separate driver done for the HP-550C. At least not >by Atari. The only other companies that I recall seeing printer drivers from >for GDOS other than Atari are TimeWorks and Migraph. > >regards, > >Bob Brodie > >---------- > Bob, This is an odd statement coming from a company that released a software package to the public that utilizes the speedo technology. AW was the flagship software for the Atari computers and you say that Atari will not continue to develop drivers for their premier release. That is the most irresponsible, disrespectful, and cavalier answer that I have ever heard. (ad infinatum, ad nauseum). I have used your computers since 1985 and own three of them presently. If my software investment wasn't so great I would sell all of them and purchase a product that I know will not be orphaned . I guess the bottom line is quit playing us for fools and get out of the computer business all together, or make us proud and jump into the fray like a tenacious pit bull and rip the throat out of the competition. IMHOP I probably have well over $10,000 invested in hardware and software for my Atari all of it new purchases. I deserve some respect don't I? Rob, AW works under Geneva, but sometimes displays erratic behaviour in the input line of th Spreadsheet and database. By behaviour what occurs is a keystroke will apparently repeat itself ad-infinitum and the only way to stop this activity is to activate a new file. this only occurs though if I rapidly resize the window and access the menu bar. Imagine the wealth that Codehead, Gribnif and Oregon Research could have generated if they had released and worked on the DOS platform. Instead of MS being king of the hill we might have seen one of our favourites. >Atari-ST RoundTable >Category 14, Topic 20 >Message 146 Sat Mar 19, 1994 >K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 08:50 EST >gnox, > >Right! I'm disappointed with Atari, but it says something about their >computers that they just keep jugging along, anyway. How many other computers >would have survived the kind of support ours have had? Mine does everything I >ask of it, and I would dread having to switch platforms. The price may be >right on the hardware now, but the software ain't cheap for something >comparable to what I use frequently on the Atari. > >Ken Van > >---------- > Ken, Software for DOS is quite cheap, just take it home from the office. (not ethical or moral but done anyways) GFN ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 164 Sun Mar 20, 1994 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 12:02 EST GFN, >> This is an odd statement coming from a company that released a >> software package to the public that utilizes the speedo >> technology. AW was the flagship software for the Atari computers >> and you say that Atari will not continue to develop drivers for >> their premier release. That is the most irresponsible, >> disrespectful, and cavalier answer that I have ever heard. I agree. I think you don't have to work too hard to read between the lines of Bob's message, and discover what's really being said. >> Imagine the wealth that Codehead, Gribnif and Oregon Research >> could have generated if they had released and worked on the DOS >> platform. Guess what? I have thought about that. :) We might also have been wealthy today if we had a nickel for every time Atari missed a release date, announced a product that never shipped, squandered an opportunity, made a stupid decision because it was a few cents cheaper, issued a gratuitous insult, or promised a non-existent advertising campaign just so that people would stop bothering them for a little while. Of course, it's water under the bridge. I suppose I should stop while I'm ahead, before someone accuses me of "Atari-bashing." Wouldn't want to do that. - Charles ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 165 Sun Mar 20, 1994 S.WINICK at 12:11 EST Charles, >> I suppose I should stop while I'm ahead, before someone accuses >> me of "Atari-bashing." Wouldn't want to do that. I thing most of us know the difference between 'telling it like it is' and "Atari-bashing". ;-] Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 166 Sun Mar 20, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 12:35 EST Papa >Am I "orphaned"? I don't feel like I am. Nonexistent support from other companies doesn't justify the same here. >...Being a businessman myself I can understand that they must >prioritize their resources ... Atari as a corporate entity is _not_ >going to live or die based on its response to the AtariWorks BPS >problem. Im my dictionary integrity begins with a "I". BTW, it could be the last straw for many users. I know they have lost Jaguar sales over this problem! Al, How can the uncles fix this problem? Joey, I hope you are right! Anyway, let's get back to helping each others. This is a great product with great supporters here. I enjoy using it and I am trying my best to sell other club members into buying it! (I have been putting off doing another demo for my club until the fix comes out.) I really hope ATARI sell a lot of this product! ~~~~Brian ... Written on Sunday 20 March 1994 at 01:11 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 167 Sun Mar 20, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 13:57 EST I'm only confused about this because everyone seems surprised. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 168 Sun Mar 20, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 14:53 EST Ken, Maybe Atari's support is rather lacking, but software support often is very good. I doubt that software for other platforms gets the support we get here from Charles Smeton, Keith Gerdes, the CodeHeads, Papa (who isn't even a developer), Missionware, and some of the other packages that I don't use. Most often the support comes directly from the developer. That's great! We need to remember, too, that stand-alone programs are usually better than integrated ones. I like AW for some things, but if I need more power and features, I go to my stand-alone programs. I'm not sure what you think we should do. What's your point? Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 169 Sun Mar 20, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 17:56 EST GFN, Try QVFIX (OVFIX) to tame that errant keystroke problem. It's not Geneva that's doing it. Brian, Neither That's Write 3 nor Calligrapher 3 have a BPS problem, and they are fully supported. Ken Van, Papa's a developer, in his own wonderful way. :) Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 171 Sun Mar 20, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 19:10 EST I don't know if I am reporting something that has already been noted, but I thought I'd post anyway. For the record, I am using AW 1.2 and SpeedoGDOS 4.0 on a MSTe using TOS 2.05. What started my investigation is a friend of mine with a F030 who said that Pie Charts created in the AW SS would not print properly with the FX80 driver. The circles turned into ovals. So, I fired up AW and created a Pie Chart - very simple, just 4 sections with one exploded out. Looked good in the SS. Saved it as a .GEM file and then imported it into the WP. Still looked good. Then I went to print in on my Canon BubbleJet. AWK! The chart was massively distorted in the vertical dimension. To make a long story a little shorter, I soon discovered that the Metafile print scaling is dependent on the screen resolution! I do not understand this. I thought Metafiles and SpeedoGDOS was supposed to remove resolution dependence. Ahd why should the screen resolution affect the printer? If I run in ST High, the Metafile print is fine. If I use ST Medium, the vertical dimension is badly distorted. (I'd almost bet by a factor of 2.) This is only with print, not on screen. It doesn't seem to make any difference what resolution I was in when I create the Metafile, just what resolution I am in when I print. Messing a little further I noted a couple of other things. The FX80 driver does indeed scale Metafiles improperly, even in ST High. The vertical dimension is streched. The BJ10 driver seems to have the scaling proper, but the fill pattern for the 3rd pie sector is missing. Just a white fill. Now, does anyone have any idea if these are Speedo or AW problems? Probably both, I'd imagine. Do the later versions of Speedo fix any of these problems? Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 4:57 PM Mountain Time Sunday, March 20, 1994 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 173 Sun Mar 20, 1994 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 22:12 EST Papa, I'm really looking forward to that essay on photo images. I don't really think that I'll be able to get anything useable but its allways worth trying. I take pictures for a living and have always wished to have the equipment and ability to move pictures from my camera to the computer. One of these days... I have the Border Bundles program but can't get it to work as a DA from within Calamus. It seems to lock the program up. Has anyone else had this problem? Am I doing something wrong here? The copy of BB I got didn't have an ACC file with it so I just changed the extender to work as a DA. There wasn't anything in the 1 page doc that mentioned how to install it. Steve ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 174 Sun Mar 20, 1994 S.MEINEKE [Steve] at 23:25 EST Can anyone please explain how I can transfer my Tracker ST database files into the AtariWorks database? Any help you offer will need to be explained simply. I am nowhere near a power user. If it can't be done relatively easy by a non- power user, is there someone who can suggest where I might find an expert for hire? Thank you. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 175 Mon Mar 21, 1994 J.KISTNER [JK] at 00:02 EST Papa, re: Using form-feed address labels with AW/WP. I easily learned to turn text (and a text/graphic combo) into a GEM metafile graphic with the [Alternate] COPY command and I have had success arranging the text/graphic combo to print 11 labels per page (though it would be so much easier if AW could command my printer to do one inch forms for this purpose). I only need to make a few more adjustments to achieve perfection. I am curious though. I could not find any referrence to the [Alt] COPY command in the manual. Maybe it's me, or are there even more surprises waiting to be revealed to me when your book arrives ??? . BTW, I have a few disks full of graphics I can use but many of the files contain multiple graphics requiring some cut and paste work. Can you reccommend a good straight forward (paint and/or graphics) program with which to accomplish that task ? I am no artist so I don't need elaborate create functions, just manipulation type functions for cut and paste, etc. Thank you. ---JK--- Mike, I had a similar output problem with the FX80 driver (too tall stuff). That all went away when I switched to the Star NB24 driver. Could that possibly help you out also ? (just guessin'). ---JK--- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 176 Mon Mar 21, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:44 EST Kenne, AtariWorks a "standard"? Possibly. Speedo, definitely - at least as far as Atari's are concerned. As for software catalogs in AW database and equipment comparisons in spreadsheet - it's just waiting for someone to do it. When it comes to user manuals - it's already been done. My "Papa's Grafik Guide" qualifies in that respect, I believe. My "Pauper's Photo Shop" project is a trial to see how well on-line publishing would work - with AW being the "standard" means through which distribution is made. I don't think we will see any "Super-Works" program from Atari but I do think we will see "works" type programs from other developers who are less concerned about it being able to run on minimal systems. AtariWorks then may be considered a "standard" by providing a "least common denominator" for compatibility between other "works" type programs. Comparing Atari to the Codeheads, Compo, Gribnif, et al is _really_ comparing apples to oranges. Atari is a corporate entity whose prime directive must always be to maximize the return on investment that their stockholders have made. If that means concentrating on feeding the insatiable gamey gremlins then that is what must be. The Codeheads, Gribnif and the rest have a _personal_ involvement with their products and their users. What they do is based on what they _individually_ and _personally_ decide to do. I think the one thing that rankles me the most about Atari, and if I read between the lines of your post correctly, is their tendency to "run off at the mouth" about what they are going to do. Vaporware, whether hard or soft, seems to be a fact of life in the computer industry. It may just be that we Atarians take it a bit harder than our DOS or Mac cousins. Maybe they are just more used to it than we are. I think what set me off about your post is that it seemed to say that I, as a user, was being orphaned by Atari. I don't tend to think in those terms. My computer and software may become "orphans" and that's nothing new - just look at Texas Instruments with the TI-4 and Tandy's CoCo III under OS-9. Both of those systems were ahead of their time in many respects. Neither of them has _any_ support from their manufacturers but both of them and their users have been not been "orphaned" they have just left home and are finding their own way in the big wide world. GFN, One of the things that Bob said regarding the HP550 driver was that since the HP550 is backward compatible with the HP500 that it wasn't necessary. Since Atari _does_not_ have a Speedo using program that has a color printing function that makes sense - it doesn't seem cavalier to me at all. If a third party developer brings out a Speedo using program with color printing capability (i.e. a graphic editor or some such) then the ball is _really_ in their park to develop a driver for color printing. They could provide it with their program _and_ offer it to other developers for a license fee or royalty. Why should Atari provide it when they don't have a product that requires it? What Atari _should_ do, in my opinion, is provide developers with a properly documented printer driver development kit. Of course Bob's remark does lead me to believe that Atari does not contemplate making AtariWorks color capable - more's the pity! Brian, I agree, integrity does begin with "I". So does 'individual'. Unfortunately corporate integrity and individual integrity are not the same thing. I don't see Atari being any different than Microsoft, Apple, Wordperfect and so on, ad nauseum. For integrity that begins with a capital "I" you have to go to a company that is an individual (also with a capital "I"). Will Atari lose Jaguar sales over the BPS problem? Certainly - but not where those sales figures count. Nintendo Nerds and Sega Sloths couldn't care less about BPS - they think a keyboard has no rightful place on "real" computers. This is the market the Jaguar is aimed at and it outnumbers the computer market by probably 10,000 to 1. BTW, persistence has finally paid off - now we shall have to see if it changes my outlook (Duh? What'd he say?). Imaginary Post: A.USER Thanks for the helpful suggestions everyone has given me about BPS on my AtariWorks 1.207. My uncle solved the problem for me by giving me a copy of his version 1.2. **Grateful nephew** Not exactly legal but then Law and Justice are not the same nor even two sides of the same coin. And, to echo your sentiments, it's time to get back to supporting this fine PROGRAM! And so ... Mike A, I have discovered the same thing with the results people have reported in trying to print my recent "Pauper's Photo Shop" post in the library. The doc was created in ST Hi. When I loaded it in with an ST Med setup it was distorted. Using SEBRA.PRG in the auto folder to sythesize ST Hi seemed to correct the problem. This, BTW, is with Speedo ver 4.1 under TOS 2.06. I believe this same "feature" may be what has caused distorted printout reports with my calendar templates uploaded last year. Since it is Speedo that does the writing to the printer and screen I am more inclined to believe that Speedo is the culprit rather than AW _but_ AW apparently writes screen res information into its .STW file. If you load a file created in ST Hi while running ST Medium it flashes a status box on screen advising you that it is "updating the file". Another one of those things to print out real big and tack above the monitor - some new user is bound to ask about it. Steve, A Migraph hand scanner with Touchup is a good starting point for getting your photos into documents. What you can expect will be dependent on the type of output planned. If you are going to print the finished document on a 300 dpi laser the "Pauper" methods will work quite well. They are geared to that type of output for use in AtariWorks (and other .IMG bitmap dependent programs). If you want linotype quality at 1270 and higher dpi the methods and software required will change. Calamus SL has some excellent Raster tools to deal with grayscales and lines per inch specifications. Calamus 1.09 requires some assistance from other programs. I haven't tried using Border Bundle as an accessory. I have only used it as a program where it seems to perform quite well. Steve, There was a lot of discussion about the Tracker ST/AtariWorks file compatibility problem several months back. I don't remember if any resolution was ever attained - I don't believe it was but I may be wrong. Hopefully someone will be able to give you the answer to that. JK, There is only _one_ IMG graphic editor in the library that can do what you describe, Colorburst III. It is in Beta form and has a serious flaw in that it does not properly maintain the aspect ratio of graphics imported into it. The only other programs in the library that handle IMG's are JC_VUE and PAD_24. Both of them are limited to handling IMG files that do not exceed 640 pixels wide. Between the two I would suggest PAD_24 although it does have a relatively steep learning curve. Hyperpaint II appeared as a cover disk program on one of the English magazines this year. It will do what you want and is very easy to use if you can find it. Arabesque was also featured recently and is a truly superb program - but it should NEVER have been released as a cover disk program without getting Gribnif's OK on the plan. You won't find [Alt] Copy in the manual. It appears to have fallen through the cracks. I did not discover it myself - it was reported in this RT by another user last fall. Many, many thanks to the person who posted that one. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 177 Mon Mar 21, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 05:02 EST Good post Papa but I disagree with some of it. However, let us all agree on one thing; it is a good program and it needs more support from the company to get more people to buy it. Also, we can complain, defend, etc all day but it will take away from this topic. I think most of us have had our say and thus back to getting Papa, etc helping with the support. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Monday 21 March 1994 at 05:58 a.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 178 Mon Mar 21, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:56 EST Al, Yeah, Papa develops friends. Papa, Whatever the reason for Atari's lack of support or for the great support from developers, it's terrific to have the support we get from many developers. My point was that that is one of the reasons I'm glad I own an Atari, besides ease of use, the ability to get good software at a reasonable price, and a few other things. BTW, I hear an echo in here. Did you post from up on Diamondhead or someplace? (We've been seeing that a lot on ads for Pepto Bismol or a similar product.) JK, I like MVG from Dr. Bob for many kinds of graphic manipulation of bit-mapped graphics. It loads and saves in a variety of formats. Touch-up is good, too. I use both. Brian, I hear you. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 179 Mon Mar 21, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:50 EST Idiocy begins with an "I" too, guys. Remember, "INTEGRITY" spelled backwards is ... hard to pronounce. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 180 Mon Mar 21, 1994 TOWNS [John] at 15:00 EST Mike Allen.. The problem with Metafiles and screen resolution sounds like a problem in Atari Works. Maybe someone else here has a program that uses Metafiles and SpeedoGDOS that could test this, but I bet the problem lies with Atari Works. Perhaps someone should send Pradip some mail and see if he can add it to the list of things to do. -- John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 181 Mon Mar 21, 1994 J.KISTNER [JK] at 23:42 EST Thanks ALL, I will look into those mentioned graphics programs. ---JK--- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 182 Tue Mar 22, 1994 CBARRON at 02:04 EST Gdos 1.x's outprint printed a gem/3 metafile created from Avante_Vektor , for an image created with Touch_up last night. Using speedodos. [Outprint was distributed with touchup,easydraw, and possibly others.] Metaile created in TTmed and printed on a Pana4450i laser. NOt much of a res. problem 640/480 ~1.33, laser 300/300 = 1. for aspect ratios. Remember STmed is 640/200 = 3.2 STHigh = 640/400 ~ 1.6 I might switch it to STmed.[Hardly ever do that] as a test. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 183 Tue Mar 22, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:51 EST John, Kandinsky _might_ run in ST Medium. I'll try whipping up some stuff and printing it out from there to my DJ. A wee bit later . . . Your suspicions are confirmed. The bug resides in AtariWorks - not in Speedo. I first booted in Medium resolution then created a circle with radius of 4 cm in Kandinsky (with snap to grid turned on). The on screen appearance was distorted appearing as a vertically oriented oval. This is normal for medium res screen display. Printing from Kandinsky through Speedo 4.1 resulted in a perfect circle. I then imported the circle into AW in Medium res. It looked circular on the screen but _printed_ as a vertically oriented oval. Exactly the opposite of Kandinsky. Next I created a pie chart in AW in Medium res. It looked circular on screen but _printed_ as a vertically oriented oval. I quit AW then imported the pie chart into Kandinsky. The screen display had the vertical oval display but the printout was OK. Then I rebooted with the monochrome monitor, started AW and imported the pie chart. Looked circular on screen and printed as a circle. Repeated the test in Kandinsky and MyDraw. Both showed a circular screen display and circular printout. Rebooting again with the color monitor but using SEBRA.PRG to synthesize a mono monitor produced circular screen displays and printouts of the pie chart. The problem is definitely in AtariWorks along with the other quirks it exhibits when running in ST Medium resolution. I will send Pradip some EMail about this (although he often lurks here). In the meantime the workaround is to simply use SEBRA.PRG in the AUTO folder. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 184 Tue Mar 22, 1994 CBARRON at 06:12 EST RE: Metafile sizing problem. AW had no problem with metafile created with avante-vektor, in either TTmed, or STMed. However it does BOTCH THE VERTICAL is way to long on metafiles, AW creates. All testing done on a tt030/pana4450i in hp mode, hplaser driver. Vertical sizing appears to be a problem in AW created metafiles, when run in STmed. Avent-Vektor gives a blank screen when loading the metafiles created in AW. THERE APPARENTLY IS A BUG in metafile writing in AW. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 185 Tue Mar 22, 1994 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] at 18:06 EST > 1) Were you able to generate USABLE printouts from the file? > > 2) Was the content of the file USEFUL to you? > > 3) Would you like to see the series continued? > >You can direct feedback to me via EMail to M.HEBERT1 or post in >Category 14, Topic 20 (AtariWorks) of the Roundtables. > >Your input will be greatly appreciated. > >'Papa' 1). YES Fantastic copies 2). YES Opened my eyes to more of the possibilities of AW 3). YES - More and also others take note - more useful stuff we can put to use with our ATARIs. I would be interested in the same kind of stuff for other progs ie: Pagestream KenO. :) ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 186 Tue Mar 22, 1994 TOWNS [John] at 20:06 EST So, all you have to do is great a monitor that has the same DPI as your printer! Seriously, it sounds like AtariWorks is using the DPI value for the Screen to print to the printer. It should be using a value from the driver to print to the printer. Hopefully, someone is forwarding these messages to Pradip for consideration when he gets some time to work on AtariWorks. -- John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 187 Tue Mar 22, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 21:53 EST KenO, The same techniques can be used in Pagestream. Processing through PicSwitch ensures that the proper header info is written into the IMG so Pagestream doesn't import it into the _whole_ page. Pagestream can use GIF's, TIF's and IFF's directly and allows you to specify screen angles and lines per inch to optimise for the output device but it still needs some helpin' to preprocess the images. What kind of printer did you use to print the file? I'm sorta keepin' track of that info. John, I'll be forwarding my test to Pradip as soon as I have an opportunity to do some playing with bitmap/text combinations. There appears to be a "drift" of text blocks when a doc created in hi res is loaded into med res. The bitmaps appear to be staying in place but the text blocks seem to be moving downwards. I need to create some control files for testing. I suspect this may have had something to do with trying to keep the onscreen display of GEM vector objects in correct proportion when running in medium res. Thanks for your post and CBARRON's. They gave me the impetus to run some tests which confirm the problem. I am particularly concerned about this one since a lot of my posts in the library use graphics embedded in the text. Now I know to steer the med res folks onto SEBRA (or, for that matter, include it in my uploads). Doesn't do much good to upload something with the hopes that folks will find it useful only to find out that med res quirks munge it up. I think most users still run SC1224's rather than SM124's. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 188 Tue Mar 22, 1994 TOWNS [John] at 23:13 EST I can tell you from experience that trying to make software work in multiple resolutions isn't easy. Especially if you are supporting ST Medium (the resolution from Hell! The aspect ratio is akward) in your application. I know there were times when we just wanted to dump that resolution. But, we couldn't because it was important to the color users out there. Anyway, it doesn't suprise me that there might be some problems with documents between resolutions. -- John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 189 Wed Mar 23, 1994 CBARRON at 02:05 EST Papa - Please note if I failed to mention it that gem/3 meta files created in Avente-Vektor printed identically with AW in TTmed AND STmed. The problem files are AW created meta files. The AW metafiles, load into AV as a blank screen as well.... Perhaps there is a bug in the creation of the metafile itself, and not the driving of the printer. If you want you can mail to my account here if reasonably small, 100K+ emailing I prefer to my cis account, I download them faster there. [75066,3204] any tests you want confirmed. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 190 Wed Mar 23, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:01 EST PRADIP @ WORKS Distorted Printouts Pradip, I tried sending this via EMail but GEnie did not recognize the addressee. Recently there were reports in the AtariWorks Roundtable regarding distorted printouts of charts created in the AW SS. I had reports of distorted printouts of my recent "Pauper's Photo Shop" upload. Both of these problems were reported by users running their systems in ST-Medium resolution. I have confirmed the distortion of the pie chart in printing from ST-Medium. The chart appears circular on screen but prints as a vertically enlongated ellipse. Printing from ST-High does not produce the distortion. I also tried printing the pie chart from Kandinsky, a shareware GEM graphics editor that is Speedo compatible. Printouts were correct in both screen resolutions. The chart appeared vertically elongated in ST-Medium _on_screen_ which is to be expected. I also tried printing my "Pauper's Photo Shop" article from ST-Medium. There was a slight upwards shift of a _few_ of the bitmap graphics. There was a cumulative _downward_ shift of text lines causing them to overlap the graphics. Printing from ST-High or from ST-Medium using the SEBRA.PRG monochrome emulator yielded correct placement of text and graphics. This was with AtariWorks Ver 1.2 using SpeedoGDOS Ver 4.1 and the HP Deskjet printer driver. I am forwarding copies of the printouts and a disk containing the "Pauper's Photo Shop" files. Michael 'Papa' Hebert CBARRON, I agree with you as far as the printing problem goes. As far as writing the GEM Metafile is concerned I have noticed that there are problems between Avant Vector, Silhouette, Arabesque, MyDraw and Kandinsky in that they do not always read the same file in the same way. They also have problems reading each others GEM3 output. Avant Vector produces files that the other programs read without apparent problems but has problems reading GEM3 files from some of the others. The problem seems to be in interpreting path direction and sometimes inserting a spurious line between the end of one path and the start of another. Silhouette exhibits the same symptoms on the same file. Kandinsky sometimes will crash when trying to read a GEM3 file until it has been "pre-processed" by loading it into MyDraw and resaving it. Arabesque has path direction problems and often fills what should be an open space. AtariWorks has absolutely the MOST TOLERANT READING of GEM3 files. I have successfully loaded PC-GEM graphics into AW that could not be read by any of the others. You may, however, be correct regarding the way the metafile is _written_ to the clipboard. I have not been able to determine if it is a flaw in the metafile or an ability of the receiving program to read a slightly different "flavor" of GEM3. Some programs read them OK and some don't. John, I don't envy anyone the task of trying to make a program multi-res compatible. When I was using my Tandy Color Computer system under OS-9 I wrote a payroll program in Basic09 that I tried to make compatible with color and mono monitors in both 40 and 80 column text modes. Trying to maintain screen formatting became a nightmare of loading and unloading program modules from the 32k workspace. Eventually I gave up the multi-res idea and just made it a mono 80 column program with the assumption that _nobody_ would try running their employee payroll using a TV as a monitor - I was wrong about that and got a whole lot of flack for not writing it in color for TV and making it Multi-Vue compatible (try something like Windows at 2mHz in one 32k workspace timeslice multitasking with other programs running in their 32k spaces and constantly doing disc accesses - aarrghhh!!!!). 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 191 Wed Mar 23, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 07:32 EST Well, I tried a further experiment in re: improper Metafile printouts in AW. I took the same Metafile (Created in the AW SS) and pulled it into Kandinsky, using ST Medium. It printed fine. I must assume that the improper printing of Metafiles from AW in ST Medium is an AW problem and not a SpeedoGDOS problem. On the other hand, the fill pattern for the 3rd pie slice was still missing. This I must assume is a problem in the BJ10 driver for SpeedoGDOS. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 5:30 AM Mountain Time Wednesday, March 23, 1994 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 192 Wed Mar 23, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 21:33 EST Mike, The pie slices printed with proper fills using the DJ driver. It sounds like a driver problem with the Bubblejet to me, too. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 193 Thu Mar 24, 1994 B.AEIN [B Man] at 02:14 EST Any One, I need a Speedo font or Thats Write 3 font that is only Upper case letters. I tried calling Bitstream, but they said that would be a custom order and very expensive. Please let me know of any fonts that fit this description or a Speedo editior on any platform that will allow me to do this. Thanks Bman ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 194 Thu Mar 24, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:45 EST Lots of fonts that are only UC, Bman, but they are specialty fonts. Robert at Compo can give you a rundown of what Compo has. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 195 Thu Mar 24, 1994 COMPO at 18:00 EST BMan - There are lots of upper case only Speedo fonts. Why don't you drop me a note in email with a description of what you're looking for. Robert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 196 Fri Mar 25, 1994 C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --] at 06:46 EST B Man, The Bitstream font package for WordPerfect 6.0 _for DOS_ contains 50 Speedo fonts, 9 of which are all caps: BREMEN BLACK DAVIDA HUXLEY VERTICAL INFORMAL 011 SHOTGUN SHOTGUN BLANKS STENCIL THUNDERBIRD and UMBRA I got this package last Fall from Egghead software for about $20! -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 197 Fri Mar 25, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 18:54 EST AW has just done something to me that I find annoying. I have several lines with text on the left and a series of underlines on the right, like this... xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ______________________ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ______________________, etc. The text varies in length, but the blanks all start at the same tab location. One of the blanks shows on the screen OK, but insists on printing at what appears to be one tab to the left. If I tab it over one more notch, it appears on the next line and prints there, too. The text on that line is not nearly as long as the text on some other lines. How can I fix this? Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 198 Sat Mar 26, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:22 EST Ken, Sounds like there might be a "hidden" tab in that line. Try selecting the line then do the Search and Replace with [Control]-I as the search parameter and [Space] as the replace parameter. That will get rid of all tabs including any "hidden" ones. Then reinsert the tab you want. Alternative #2: Create the text part without the _________ part. Next create the ________ parts on a separate part of the page and [Alt] Copy them as a metafile. Delete the originals, paste the copy back in and slide it into position. BTW, when using metafile copies of elements in AtariWorks it is preferable to put the "normal" text on the page first leaving space for the metafile. This tends to reduce or eliminate an occasional interaction that can occur when you have "normal" text and metafile text occupying the same line(s). 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 199 Sat Mar 26, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:57 EST Papa, Thanks. I'll give it a try. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 200 Sat Mar 26, 1994 G.NELSON16 [GFN] at 13:43 EST Al, QVfix is now installed (had forgotten about it) and things appear to be more stable. >Atari-ST RoundTable >Category 14, Topic 20 >Message 174 Sun Mar 20, 1994 >S.MEINEKE [Steve] at 23:25 EST > >Can anyone please explain how I can transfer my Tracker ST database files into >the AtariWorks database? Any help you offer will need to be explained simply. >I am nowhere near a power user. If it can't be done relatively easy by a non- >power user, is there someone who can suggest where I might find an expert for >hire? Thank you. >---------- > Steve, I had no trouble importing a superbase file into AW's database. Since Tracker is an app written in Superbase it should be fine. If I remember go to your export screen function and export to ascii file. The main thing to be aware of is that the base you want to import your data into is set up exactly like the tracker fields . What occurs in a nutshell is the ascii file is written so that each field is on it's own line, so when you import into that base yiour fields should match one to one. Since Tracker will allow you to query the records in different ways you can extract only certain fields as well as records. I hope this might help. Papa, I will beg to disagree that the attitude taken by Atari regarding the HP550 driver as well as their myopic vision of their corporate future is Cavalier. I own a small cabinet and countertop fabrication business. If I were to do a $400.00 cabinet job for someone and the doors didn't fit right they would expect me to come back and fix them. Well I just got a $10,000.00 contract and do not have time for such a small thing as that $400.00 cabinet, The small customer calls my shop and complains, I say I don't have the time to get to it right now, because we are really all tied up elsewhere. Who wins in the long run with this situation? "Not I", said me. GFN ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 201 Sat Mar 26, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 14:06 EST There's a Cardfile to AW help file in the library. You may be able to use that if you play around with it. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 202 Sun Mar 27, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 04:40 EST GFN, Point well taken ;-) 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 203 Sun Mar 27, 1994 G.NELSON16 [GFN] at 10:48 EST Chuck, I just picked up this set at CompUSA for 24.95, It is well worth the money. Some excellent fonts. (I am trying to group them for various uses.) ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 204 Sun Mar 27, 1994 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 12:11 EST Think of all the support Atari is going to provide the poor slobs who buy into the Jaguar. By this time next year they will probably still be test marketing the thing and there should be a whole 3 games available for it. Ofcourse, by that time Atari will be INTO Cable TV and wont have time to finnish up the 30+ games they said would be out by that time.... I don't understand how people who have dealt with Atari would buy a Jaguar knowing how things usually work out. Everyone should read Big Jacks book, he wrote it just as he was making the deal to acquire Atari (when he was still head of Commadore). That should tell you everything you need to know as to how the users end up when dealing with Atari. The fact that Atari isn't even trying to deal with the problem (BPS) by sending out a couple of lousy disks with a working (older) version is a real slap in the face to everyone who has supported them in the past. It's really funny when you come to think about it. Big daddy Jack will write another book (before he acquires his Cable station) that tells a story of how to sell the same technology to the same people over and over again and make them beg for more. Papa, I d/l your PPS_PRT file. I get boxes with "x" through them. How do I load the pictures so they will print? How do I know which picture goes where? Ken Van, Yes, it does what we need now, but most people are worried whether it will be able to grow with them. Or, will their investment in time and money we wasted? Steve Blackburn ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 205 Sun Mar 27, 1994 R.YOST2 [Russ] at 14:10 EST S. Meineke I have transferred Superbase records to AtariWorks by setting up a comma- delimited file, like this: Smith,John,423 S. Draper Pl.,Phoenix,AZ,85020,234- 4598 etc. This will import into AW just fine. But the very first line of your file should be the field names, otherwise your first line of data will become the field names. So in the above example, the first line of the ASCII comma- delimited file should read: Lastname,Firstname,Address,City,State,Zip,Phone or something like that. If you have more questions, leave me E-mail here. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 206 Sun Mar 27, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 18:20 EST Steve, I've got to wonder why you posted about the Jaguar in the Atari Works topic, especially such a scornful, inaccurate, and antagonistic post as it was. It's okay with me if you don't like the Jaguar, but what was your point in posting? ~dmj ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 207 Sun Mar 27, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 21:32 EST Steve, Make sure _all_ the files for "Pauper's Photo Shop" are in the root directory of a disk in drive A. AtariWorks does not store the IMG as part of the STW file. What it stores is the _path_ to the IMG and its filename. AtariWorks knows which picture goes in which location. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 208 Sun Mar 27, 1994 T.WILKINSON1 [TomWilkinson] at 22:56 EST I must say I am disappointed with Atari Works. I paid $150 Canadian for the package. Pages 5-1 through 5-24 are upside down in the manual. The first document I printed bigger than two pages didn't print the top half of the second page, and I have been unwilling to use the word processor for anything serious since then. It doesn't work with Warp 9 V.3.75 at any rate. I did get a coupon telling me I would get a free upgrade to Version 2.0 when it comes out. Even the disk labels looked silly, with the labels appearing to be printed on a dot matrix printer. Is this program being duplicated and sold as the real thing? Is this really the work of Atari? I hate to sound negative and whine, but to me this is a lot of money, and I feel it has gone down the tubes on this program. Can someone tell me: A) when is Works 2.0 going to be out. B) Will it work with Warp 9? C) will there be driver so that you can use printer fonts rather than having to load Speedo fonts. D) will the spreadsheet be able to have more than one font on screen at the same time? What happened with the manual? The disk labels? Why am I paying so much for something that appears to have been run off in a Taiwanese basement. Thanks ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 209 Sun Mar 27, 1994 J.KISTNER [JK] at 23:50 EST Tom W, Be patient and keep an open mind, AW is no where near as bad as your fifirst impression has led you to beleive. While the manual leaves something to be desired, you will get a lot of good help here. As far as the disk labels go, who cares if they are scrawled in crayon??? Install it on the hard disk and put the floppies in a safe place. It seems as if we all had to upgrade to Warp 9 3.80 for compatibility with the print features in AW, but you can work around that simply by turning off W9 screen acceleration before printing. Good luck. ---JK--- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 210 Sun Mar 27, 1994 J.KISTNER [JK] at 23:50 EST Papa, I received your book on Friday 3-25-94. The HI post mark was dated 3-22-94. Pretty good service from both you and the USPS. It appears that the book is going to be very helpful once I get the time to read it, thank you. ---JK--- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 211 Mon Mar 28, 1994 J.KISTNER [JK] at 00:59 EST Papa, BTW, myself and a couple of others have expressed a desire for a full page view or vertical ruler in AW/WP. How useful might it be if during the early stages of creating a first draft you set a custom page to one inch (with or without margins ???). The resulting page breaks every y inch could act as your "vertical ruler" during the early creation stages. Later you could reset page length to the correct size. Jus' thinkin'. ---JK--- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 212 Mon Mar 28, 1994 CBARRON at 03:28 EST Russ - Would not a dbIII superbase export, and an AW dbIII import be more easier??? ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 213 Mon Mar 28, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 03:47 EST I don't believe Steve's post was inaccurate at all. He hit it right on. Top management doesn't give a crap about any of the users. Once you buy an Atari product, it's so long sucker and thanks for the money. At this point, I don't believe AW will EVER get updated. They are too busy playing with the Jag. to worry about the computer users. Maybe Jack will tell everyone in his new book how to play people for fools without them knowing it. He sure knows how to do this well. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 214 Mon Mar 28, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 04:54 EST Tom, Your experience with the manual pages is the first time it has been reported in this RT. Things like that _can_ and _do_ happen when books are being printed. I have probably wasted a good thousand pages in my book because I punched for binding on the wrong side of the page - and I hand assemble my book! Machine bound books are more prone to this type of thing. The incompatibility with Warp9 versions prior to 3.8 is well known. The later version of Warp9 was not only to correct incompatibility problems with SpeedoGDOS (not AtariWorks) but also to correct problems in using it with the Falcon. You can still use ver 3.75 by editing WARP9.DAT to turn off screen acceleration whenever you run AtariWorks or by manually turning it off prior to printing. You didn't mention which version of AtariWorks you have. Is it version 1.2 or 1.207? There is a bug in version 1.207 that causes what is called "Black Page Syndrome" or BPS for short. Atari is working on the cure for this problem - but it is taking an inordinately long time to do it. What you encountered with the top half of the second page not printing may be a variation on the BPS problem. If you have version 1.207 I suggest you contact your dealer to see if you can obtain a copy of the version 1.2 executable and resources. If your dealer is unwilling or unable to help you just give a shout here in the RT. There are ways around this problem. Version 2 of AtariWorks _is_ in beta testing. That has slipped out on several occasions from several sources. What is not known is at what stage of beta testing and if it is the complete version 2. Hang on to your coupon. More than one font in the spreadsheet is one of the things on the wishlist along with support for columns in the word processor, page previews, etc, etc. You can change spreadsheet fonts in printed reports by importing the spreadsheet into the wp then editing the fonts as desired. Speedo fonts are the strong suit of AtariWorks. They are absolutely TOP quality - as good as (and I believe better) than anything available in Truetype or Postscript. While having the ability to use printer fonts would speed output it would limit your ability to format text on screen - there would literally have to be hundreds of printer drivers to accomodate the variations in printers. Slow output comes with the territory when using outline fonts. AtariWorks is almost as fast at putting out a page as Calamus 1.09 and outruns Calligrapher or Pagestream quite easily. As far as the packaging goes. I am rather ambivalent on that one. They could have done a better job but it wouldn't have made the program one whit better. Give AtariWorks a chance - it is MUCH more than it appears at first glance! The folks here in the RT are more than willing to help out in whatever way we can. JK, Wow! That snail must have had lunch across the street from my shop! Plenty of Tabasco sauce there! I uploaded 3" and 9" transparent vertical rulers several months ago. They are in the library. Just do a search with "Works" as the key. I think the filename is AW_RLRS.LZH. These are GEM vector objects and as such will slow down the screen updates. They have 1/8" graduations. When I use them I place a "." as a visual marker for where I am going to place a line of text or place a graphic. Then I select the ruler with [Control]-Z and Hide Picture (under the Edit menu). This restores the speed of screen updates. BTW, always use the rulers on a blank page document and use your cursor keys or mouse to navigate around the page. You will probably find yourself needing to adjust positioning of text after changing point size. Use the blank spaces in the document to shift text up or down by placing your cursor on a blank line then change the font size larger to move text down or smaller to bring it up. The change occurs as soon as you hit [Space] on the blank line. BION, I don't use the rulers as much as I used to. Most of my stuff is composed "on the fly". I just try to keep track of the position of the page break. The only place I used the ruler in my book was on the front cover to set the initial placement of the graphic. All the rest was done by "eyeball" alignment. I haven't tried the rulers on a medium res screen so I don't know how well they will work there. If they seem to be off using SEBRA.PRG to emulate a mono monitor should take care of it. I have tried using DOUBLE.PRG (only works on STe's) in double height mode to preview a page. It gives about 3/4 view of the page in a scrolling window. MonSTer is also useful and gives a full page look but again it is in a scrolling window. Neither of them is very useful when editing a document but they do come in handy on occasion. I also use them with Calamus and Pagestream. The idea of setting "soft" page breaks is useable but only if you are working in one point size throughout. Positioning of "soft" page breaks is not based on a distance from the top margin or previous page break. What it does is cause AtariWorks to send a formfeed after it prints the line immediately above the break. Using them as a visual indicator is workable but only so long as you maintain the same point size throughout the document. The page break will move up or down to accomodate a change in point size to a smaller or larger size respectively. This holds true until you approach the hard page break as set by the bottom margin. Changing to a larger point size than can be accomodated on the current page will cause the line to jump to the next page regardless of the setting of the soft break. The only thing I find "soft" breaks useful for is "widow" and "orphan" control. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 215 Mon Mar 28, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 05:00 EST I know I complain a lot but I do think AW will get updated. I just don't think complaining about it will help. The most it does is torque off the remaining support we still have. Does anyone like to go where they'll be confronted with anger? They'll eventually get around to AW. They almost always get around to the problems. The results are problematic but.... We're Atari users. We'll make do. We'll settle and help each other out because we bought the best computers to do the job. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 216 Mon Mar 28, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:45 EST Steve, I'm getting a little tired of downloading flames in a support topic. It's a little presumptuous to think that AW users want to invest time and money in hearing complaints. Does anyone agree? I'm not sure that I'm going to do much more growing. Ken Van ------------