========================================================================= (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== Category 14, Topic 20 Message 1 Sat Feb 06, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 13:17 EST The following message is excerpted from the transcript of last night's RTC with Bob Brodie, Director of Communications for Atari Corp. It is presented here for your information but may not be copied or reprinted without the expressed permission of this RoundTable. However, the full transcript is available as file # 26714 - BRODIE5.ARC and may be reprinted in its entirety. Let's talk about Atari Works at this point, and try to give you a glimpse of what is coming with that product. Atari Works is a fully integrated word processor, database, and spreadsheet. It's intended to provide the average user just about anything that they might require in a package to be used in either the home, or for a small business/home office scenario. Most of our energies with Atari Works have been focused on the word processor component of Works, as we believe that word processing is still the most common usage for home users. The Atari Works word processor offers multiple documents, full cut and paste between documents and the other portions of Works, easy set up of justification (left, right, center, or proportional), and importing of GEM metafile images. Atari Works has full SpeedoGDOS support, which means multiple scalable outline fonts with multiple sizes, and your usual bold, italics, underline, outline, superscript, subscript, footnotes, and headers. Works uses the Proximity dictionary system, and updated version of the system that was used with Word Up and Word Flair II. There is also a thesaurus included with Works. Works has full search and replace capabilities, again easily activated by drop down menus. One of the features that I really enjoy in using Atari Works is the exceptionally easy mail merge capabilities with Atari Works database module. It's always been something of a pain for me to have to mail merge. It seemed to me that there was never really a system that felt very intuitive to me for mail merging. With Works, there is a drop down menu called "Begin Merge" that allows you to begin the process. It's TERRIFIC!!! On the editing side of the coin, Works allows you to transpose letters that just need to be flip-flopped with a Control-T command. Its also "intelligent" about it's editing, in that if you begin moving around text, Works will recognize the need for additional spaces and automatically insert the spaces for you. There are also commands that will allow you to do a number of different text commands, like setting areas to all caps, or all lower case, and other text handling. The word processor of Atari Works also supports the importation of standard ASCII text, the Microsoft Rich Text Format (RTF) files. This is an increasingly popular format used with PC and Mac word processors, like Microsoft Word. The logical extension of that is that your documents at work can be saved out as .RTF files, and readily brought into Atari Works with the formatting fully intact!! The database portion of Atari Works will import .DBF files, tab delimited ASCII, and comma delimited ASCII. The Atari Works database is a breeze to set up and work with, too! If you start a new database file, the system begins prompting you for field names, until you tell it you're done. Once the fields are entered, you simply click on the fields and hold down the mouse button while you drag the field to the desired size! Simple, eh? You can add additional fields later by simply clicking on the database form with your mouse. Fields are moved about the page simply by clicking and dragging them. You can display the records in a form fashion, or in a list fashion that looks very spreadsheet-ish to me. :) Since everything in Atari Works is fully GEM compliant, you can also highlight portions of the database records, and save out the area as a GEM metafile and drop it into your document! Of course, this also applies to the spreadsheet as well. That makes displaying graphs and tables as part of your document easier than it's ever been before. Bill Rehbock, the product manager for Atari Works, tells me that the database portion of Works will feel very familiar to anyone that has ever used a database on a Mac. My sentiment was that I didn't find an overpowering need to run to the docs just to get things going, the database has a very comfortable "feel" to it. I'm not generally comfortable with ANY database, so I have great confidence that most of you will really enjoy the database portion of Atari Works. The spreadsheet portion of Atari Works is Excel command compatible. Our intention with the spreadsheet is not to compete against stand alone products like LDW Power, but to provide a good, basic speadsheet for users to be able to chart, graph, and track their finances. We have some portions of our business presently tracking their finances under the spreadsheet of Atari Works. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 2 Wed Oct 06, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 22:09 EDT I have had no problems whatsoever with Works on my Falcon or my STacy. My only gripe with Works is that the durn spell checker doesn't have a "Change All Occurences" function. Even the "shimmering" doesn't bother me anymore. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 3 Thu Oct 07, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EDT Bob, If lots of goobledy-goop solves the control-M problem, maybe that's why I've been lucky! My auto folder looks like the contents of most Atari hard drives! Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 4 Thu Oct 07, 1993 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] at 06:48 EDT Mike I think I can set the page length with GFA and then use AW. However I am going over to the GFA top because LPRINT does not work on Falcon - but I am told there may be another way. KenO. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 5 Fri Oct 08, 1993 R.BEATTY3 [Buffalo Bob] at 04:55 EDT Steve, Double-click - crash - burn. This is with a TT030 running Geneva or the standard desktop. Maybe I should just try it with MultiTOS... Wouldn't _that_ be interesting! Bob B. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 6 Fri Oct 08, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 06:20 EDT Cliff, Can you tell me what needs to be different? Or can I trust the installation program? Seems as though others don't think so. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 7 Fri Oct 08, 1993 ATARIAUSTRIA [J.Widi] at 07:34 EDT John, nice to hear that Johannes ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 8 Fri Oct 08, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 09:52 EDT I enjoyed your dissertation on printing labels. Maybe you could tell me how you handle fonts. I've got 4 megs but it's not enough for everything I want to do. What is the easiest way to set up the fonts so that you can dump one set and load another while in AtariWorks? Is that possible or do you have to reboot. How many fonts can you have (ready to use) in a typical setup? Steve ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 9 Fri Oct 08, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 21:40 EDT To: Steve Blackburn Re: AtariWorks & Speedo Fonts I am running all 62 of the Speedo fonts I have. I don't know what the theoretical limit is - probably around 255. Having that many fonts in your setup doesn't mean they will all get loaded. Only the default font and whatever others you use in a document will get loaded but all the others will be available for instant use. AtariWorks will start up a little quicker with only a few fonts in the setup but to access the inactive fonts means closing your document. Activating the fonts you need with the Outline ACC and then rebooting. I can wait the extra 30 seconds to have all of mine available on a moment's notice. Don't turn bitmaps on in the Outline ACC unless you absolutely need them for some other program. It will make loading very slow. AtariWorks does not need the bitmaps and neither do any of the other programs I use Speedo fonts for. Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 10 Fri Oct 08, 1993 C.COOK7 [Cliff] at 22:26 EDT Ken Van: I have no idea what needed to be fixed. I just followed the same debugging technique I've used for the last 30 years. When in doubt start over; it works 90% of the time. The install program worked perfectlu on my Falcon. Just be sure to either erase or rename all traces of what's there now before you start. Cliff ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 11 Sat Oct 09, 1993 A.B.SMITH [Barry] at 05:21 EDT All- Thanks for the suggestions on a replacement manual. I'll read them over offline and make some sort of decision. Tha sadf part about it is that if I ever do get a new one I will pull it out of the package and lay it right on rtop of the old one, if you know what I mean. From what I read on last weeks messages, it sounds as though if I close out of HOTWIRE and run AW directly from the DT, it will then find the dictionary with no problem? Correct? Thanks. -Barry ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 12 Sat Oct 09, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 08:39 EDT Ken Van, I don't think Falcon users are having problems with the installation program (or with the path problem either) - it seems to be the older machines that AW is not 100% compatible with. gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 13 Sat Oct 09, 1993 R.KOHORN [RON] at 11:18 EDT Does anyone know how to change the default font that AW uses. I have used the preference menu and made the change but there is no way I have found to permanently save this. Right now my AW uses Cooper Black as the default and I want to switch to Swiss 721. Thanks ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 14 Sat Oct 09, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 13:17 EDT I can't remember but I think there is a SAVE option under the file menui. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 15 Sat Oct 09, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 18:08 EDT I've uploaded a patch to fix the problem with running Atari Works from HotWire. It will be available as soon as it's released by the sysops. The filename is AW_PATCH.LZH. This will not solve the problem with Atari Works and TOS 1.0-1.2, unless you are running Works from the patched version of HotWire. John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 16 Sat Oct 09, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 22:35 EDT Cliff, Thanks. I may give it a try. I note that I don't get that message with AW installed with the install program on the Mega STe. gnox, Thanks. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 17 Sun Oct 10, 1993 F.OLIVAS [F.Olivas] at 01:51 EDT OK Friends, Here is my AUTO and DA list in the order that they run: ACC's AUTORUN MULTDESK FOLDR100 WARP9_CP SETSEEK EOSTIMER WARP9_ST OUTLINE DCFLIGHT ADSPEED HIDE MACCEL3 SPDGDOS CODEKEYS DATADIET HOTWIRE UIS_III FPPRNT Hope this helps solve any problems I've been experienceing with Works, however, I must confess that since I've copied the .LEX and .OVL files into every directory, things have been just swell. Fred Olivas >Atari-ST RoundTable >Category 14, Topic 20 >Message 157 Mon Oct 04, 1993 >T.HARRIS1 [SLICE] at 23:17 EDT > >F.OLIVAS > >I've also run into the same problem. I took a simple safety proceedure. I >reinstalled. Also, I took the extra step of blocking all the text using the >block command before exporting. I just exported a text using both RTF and >ASCII file out three times with no problems. What version of TOS are >you using??? > >---------- I'm using a Maga 4ST with TOS 2.06 ROMS. I hadn't thought of blocking the text before saving. I'll give this a try. Why isn't this mentioned in the manual regarding saving an ASCII file. Fred Olivas Rodney, I don't know about any box. To all who say please reinstall: I've installed Works at least five times with absolutely the same results. The .LEX and .OVL files don't copy and I must move them from floppy to HD manually. OK!?! ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 18 Sun Oct 10, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:41 EDT Thanks for the patch, John! ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 19 Sun Oct 10, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:41 EDT Fred, I'd put the Warp 9 control panel inside MDD as a resident DA. Apart from using Geneva, this is the best way to make sure the W9 CP functions properly. What does HIDE do? Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 20 Sun Oct 10, 1993 T.HARRIS1 [SLICE] at 12:15 EDT RON Load AW. Select Cancel. Goto drop down menu. Select Preferences. Choose your font i.e. Swiss 721. Choose OK. That should give you a permanent default. What do you think of the program??? Hope that helps, Slice F.Olivas Try turning off some of the things you may not need for the time being. Is the list given in the true order? If it is UIS_III is too far down the list. Move Speedo to behind Folder100. What is SETSEEK? I see hotwire on the list; did you get the patch? FPPRNT is not going to be use by Speedo. When I run Works, I run software to boot harddrive, other required software for hardware, and UIS_III. It may be a simple conflict between addon. Slice ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 21 Sun Oct 10, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 14:22 EDT F.OLIVAS, OUTLINE works well as a nonresident accessory in MDD. As Al said, W9 works as a res. acc. in MMD. BTW, I would increase your folders to say 250. Why MACCEL3 when you have W9? Is it DD v 2.X? I use DD 2.X and it works OK with everything. ~~Brian..Written on Sunday 10 October 1993 at 02:47 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 22 Sun Oct 10, 1993 J.WILSON103 [J_Dub] at 20:00 EDT Anybody give me the LATEST version of ATARI Works? I got my Falcon today, and it had v1.2 installed...all seems ok, but I have not had a lot of time to really check it out. Based on prior posts here, I did try the dictionary and it seems to be just fine. J_Dub ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 23 Sun Oct 10, 1993 D.CABLE at 20:01 EDT Hello GEnieland. I've been using AtariWorks for several months now and there's just one thing I'd like to know. How the heck do you lock the first column in a spreadsheet? The standard Excel command (which is in a drop-down menu) isn't there. When the spreadsheet gets out around column "P" it starts getting a little time consuming to get any work done with out this feature. I've been using a work-around of loading two copies of the spreadsheet and sizing one to just the first column, but if you select a cell in more than one spreadsheet on the desktop in Works, it will freeze when you try to close one. A rather nasty bug, that one. Dan ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 24 Sun Oct 10, 1993 F.OLIVAS [F.Olivas] at 20:11 EDT Al, HIDE is an ICD autorun program which hides the AdSpeed indicator. Slice, Yes, my AUTO folder list is correct. After years of use and trial I've decided that the ONLY PLACE for UIS_III is next to last in the AUTORUN list. Any other place causes me problems. I've just deleted FOLDR100.PRG because I have ICD booter software and I can accomplish the same feat without additional overhead. SETSEEK?, is a CodeHead program which helps me access my second floppy drive. Without FPPRNT FleetStreet Publisher takes just too long to give me a finsihed page. I need it. I'll try you suggestion though by moving Speedo further up the list. Thanks Brian, Thanks for your comments. W9 needs to be outside my MultiDesk ACC in order for Fleet Street Publisher to work. Believe me on this as I've spent many hours grueling over this one point and this is the ONLY solution. I'll try increasing my folder limit to 250 and see if this helps. Thanks. Fred Olivas ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 25 Sun Oct 10, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 21:11 EDT To: John @ Codehead Kudos for the AW_PATCH upload! To: R. Kohorn After you set the default font in preferences set it in Header/Footer also. Select Header - set font, select Footer - set font. Select Save Format/Style. AtariWorks stores the default font in WORKS.INF along with Header/Footer fonts, paragraph formats, font macros, etc. You can read this file as ASCII. When you load a document that contains some other font as the default that font may override your default during the current session. It seems like that occurs but I have not taken the time yet to experiment with it. I have noticed that there are WORKS.INF files saved not only to the root folder for AtariWorks but also in some other folders. Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 26 Sun Oct 10, 1993 K.BROOKS1 [Horizon] at 23:35 EDT Another little thing to correct in v2.0 is the overwriting of the WORKS.INF file with the parameters of the last file that was open when you quit. If I want standard 1" margins all around as a default, if I happen to close Works with a labels setup using 1/4" margins all around, guess what my margins are when I open Works the next time. Keith ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 27 Mon Oct 11, 1993 R.KOHORN [RON] at 00:45 EDT Slice, It worked, thanks alot. What do I think of the program? Firstly, the manual is terrible. Your suggestion of how to change the default font is not in the manual that I can find. There are some other problems also with the manual. I can't evaluate the spreadsheet since I don't use spreadsheets. I am playing around with the database and one problem I have with it is that you can't save several report styles with the same database. The wordprocessor is find but not for everyday use. To type out a letter for example, Protext is much better. It is nice as a MINI DTP and the fonts are beautiful (this is due to Speedo however) Considering that this is essentially a 60 dollar program (SPeedo was included) I think it is a real good value. Thanks again Ron ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 28 Mon Oct 11, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 03:39 EDT Fred, If your problem is solved by copying the LEX and OVL files into every directory, you could also solve it by: 1. If you're using HotWire, apply the patch program I uploaded. 2. If you're using TOS 1.0-1.2, either upgrade to a later TOS, move your documents into your WORKS folder, or wait for Atari to fix the problem which is caused by using shel_read to obtain the current path. John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 29 Mon Oct 11, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:14 EDT Mike, > I have noticed that there are WORKS.INF files saved not only to the > root folder for AtariWorks but also in some other folders. So far, I've found that the Hotwire patch prevents this - the INF always goes to the WORKS folder as it should. Of course those with early TOSs and not Hotwire will still have the problem. But for Hotwire users, the patch John uploaded clears up all the path anomalies. Finally, I can save Works files wherever I want! gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 30 Mon Oct 11, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:33 EDT Fred, I believe some of the experts have advised here we should use FOLDRXXX, even if we have ICD software. Experts? John, Thanks for the AW_PATCH. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 31 Mon Oct 11, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 12:39 EDT Reco FOLDXXX for systems using TOS 1.4 or greater. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 32 Mon Oct 11, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:50 EDT Fred is replacing the FOLDRxxx.PRG function with the identical function of ICD. It's quite safe to do so. Using them both is additive and redundant. John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 33 Mon Oct 11, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 18:47 EDT Mike: A message you gave to R. Kohorn suggested to save a default font by setting it in Preferences *and* in Header/Footer. You only need to save in Preferences, beacuse that saves *all* settings, as you stated. As a side, I hope you weren't suggesting the WORKS.INF file was an ASCII file, that you can view it, but do't expect to be able to change it like you would an ASSIGN.SYS file. Secondly, Save Format/Style saves style sheet settings in a .FMT file. It does not appear to come up as a default when you run AW. It must be loaded in order to be used. Thirdly, loading a document with other fonts *does not* overwrite the default in the current session. I've been in the process of some very lengthy writings with AW and have never experienced these problems. Believe me, I have a setup which could test the patience of Job, and have learned through experience to be absolutely sure before suggesting solutions. Tom ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 34 Mon Oct 11, 1993 TQUINN [Terry~Sysop] at 21:36 EDT The first 200 messages (or so) in this Topic have been archived and are available in Library 13 as file # 30355 (ATWORKS6.ARC). This archive covers the period between September 13, 1993 and October 11, 1993. Terry Quinn ST RT Sysop and BBS Janitor ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 35 Tue Oct 12, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:47 EDT Fred, Your response shows just how unhelpful our comments were! You obviously have good reasons for the order of your AUTO programs. My wife's AdSpeed has a little toggle switch attached to change the speed. It's a wonderful little touch. Ken, Atari's folder fix and ICD's do the same thing. You *can* use both, and you'll get a cummulative effect. (In other words, you could bump the ICD limit of 9999 to 999 more. Don't ask me to do the math. I HATE math!) ... OK, it's 10,998... Thems a lotta folders. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 36 Tue Oct 12, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 15:16 EDT To: gnox I can also save to any folder I want. The extra WORKS.INF file seems to show up only if I have created a folder and saved a file to it that has different parameters than my default. I haven't had time to chase this further. To: Tom The suggestion to check Header/Footer is to make certain that the desired font is entered into each position. If a font has been prespecified for Header/Footer the setting in Preferences assumes that's what you want for Header/Footer and only changes the body text font. I am not suggesting the editing of WORKS.INF in an ASCII editor. Viewing it is a different matter and sheds some light on what AtariWorks puts there. You are correct about Save Format/Style. It saves only the format not the default fonts. My error there. AtariWorks really needs a configuration file that is always the default anytime a new document is opened. I use a blank page with default margins for each type of document I am going to work on as a "work around". Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 37 Tue Oct 12, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 19:12 EDT Mike: Thanks for the clarification. The blank page with settings is not a bad idea, so I concur with your idea of having an improved configuration file. I think I also read around here (don't quite know who wrote it) that margins were not saved in a created document, or something to that effect. That's simply not true. When you save a document, all margin settings are saved with it. Tom ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 38 Tue Oct 12, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 23:00 EDT Tom That's right - all margin settings are saved with it. That's why I have a folder full of "forms" which are just blank page documents with different margins and page configurations. All of them are filled with carriage returns in my default font size. Makes it a little more convenient to start a document with known values instead of whatever was last used!! Yo! Pradip, CNF file for version 2 please! Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 39 Tue Oct 12, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 23:09 EDT To: All I have found a way to embed printer codes in an AtariWorks document. It must be printed to disk with GemSpool. AtariWorks does not put in the printer codes - SpeedoGDOS does. The .SPL file created by GemSpool can be editted with a diskfile editor to include the codes desired - in my case it is instructing my HP 4L "Baby" Laserjet to print multiple copies. OK - with that said I can embed the codes but I cannot get the HP to respond to the print multiple copies command no matter where I embed the hex command string. I know that Calamus does it but have not been able to decipher how they go about it. Does the print multiple copies command have to be preceded by some other escape sequence? Does it require some PJL job control code? If anyone out there knows I would appreciate whatever tips you can give. Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 40 Wed Oct 13, 1993 R.KOHORN [RON] at 00:23 EDT Slice, I spoke too soon. I booted AW and there it was, sitting just as plain as day. BITSTREAM COOPER BLACK. Does anyone actually like this font. Ron ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 41 Wed Oct 13, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:33 EDT All, Blank forms of different types are very handy. Just double-click on the form and Works will run and load it in. (Two minus points to the first user who says this is news to him or her!) Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 42 Wed Oct 13, 1993 R.GARDNER2 [Gaitor] at 05:49 EDT I picked up ATARI WORKS Version 1.2 at the recent Gelndale ATARIFEST and have installed on my main Floptical Disk. I am still learning my way around it and it seems to work okay, but I did have a problem during the installation that I hope someone will know the answer to. The installation from the floppies to the Floptical went very smoothly until near the very end on Disk 3 when the following message appeared: "Bad INSTALL.DAT" "Abort Code 0x12090104" and then the installation process terminated. Now as far as I can tell, all of the files got copied to the Floptical disk and the program is working properly, but that message does have me concerned, since I got it everytime I ran the installation procedure. Any insight into what the above message means would be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Bob ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 43 Wed Oct 13, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 06:26 EDT Mike, Perhaps you're inserting a multiple page command before a command embedded by the printer driver that sets the page count back to 1. Look for a "&l1X" string and change the "1" to the number of copies you'd like. You can do this with files saved from the CodeHead RAM Disk print spooler as well. John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 44 Wed Oct 13, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:52 EDT John, If the FOLDRXXX.PRG message comes from you, I'll believe it. I just deleted mine. You, too, Al. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 45 Wed Oct 13, 1993 J.WILSON103 [J_Dub] at 08:54 EDT Anyone using a Panasonic KX-P2123 with Atari Works? I am having problems getting the printer to work...what driver are you using? J_Dub ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 46 Wed Oct 13, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 09:11 EDT Ron, Your question about the Cooper typeface is one with a larger point. As an editor who works with fonts, among other things, I'd like to remind Works users that many of the fonts available for Speedo - in fact, MOST of the fonts - are not text fonts but display fonts; i.e., they are not intended to be read in small type but as headlines of some sort. Cooper, which comes in normal and other versions (black is one of them, "black" being a typical European term for "bold"), and using Cooper as the main text font will guarantee that your documents are hard to read and ugly as well. In general, the basic text fonts are Times and its derivatives (Times Roman and so on), Century Schoolbook, Garamond, Palatino, Goudy and a few others. Helvetica, often called Swiss, is also used as a text font by those who like its plain features, but it is not as readable at normal sizes (9-12 points) as fonts that look like Times - fonts that have serifs, those little appendages at the ends of the characters. The explosion in high-quality desktop-publishing software and the huge selection of good fonts has done a disservice to those who are stuck reading what comes out of a printer, because it has encouraged all of us to use any and every font in our collections. Basically, a good, readable document will have only two fonts - three, if the third is used just for eye relief. When used in this manner, Cooper can be very effective. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 47 Wed Oct 13, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 20:12 EDT Al, Different blank forms? Really???? And double-clicking to activate it??? ;-) Tom ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 48 Wed Oct 13, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 21:54 EDT Al, Duhh. . . . I just use NeoDesk as a program launcher. Chee ya mean I can drag that blank page doc down on the desktop and lunch it too? Garsh! I shoulda thunk of that! Actually I don't normally put documents on the Desktop since I'm already near the limit with program icons. Must admit that it's a darn good idea that I forgot about in NeoDesk. Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 49 Wed Oct 13, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 22:02 EDT To: John @ Codehead Hey, thanks much! I'll have to look for that string and give it a try. It's really a shame to have an engine capable of 7-8 pages/minute only doing a page every two minutes because the driver insists on sending the same data out again for each copy. I'll have to dig out my Codehead order form and pop for CodeRam one of these days. Just installed my Warp9 3.8 upgrade on home and office machines. Both working good except for a peculiar 2 bomb crash after a warm reboot [Ctrl][Alt][Reset] on the office machine w/TOS 1.62. Home machine w/TOS 2.06 no such situation. I am going to do some auto folder stripping and reorganization to see if it's in there somewhere. I suspect it may be ACCENT.PRG on the office machine since that is basically the only difference other than TOS version. Will advise you of results. Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 50 Wed Oct 13, 1993 F.OLIVAS [F.Olivas] at 22:46 EDT John @ CodeHead, Thanks for the patch. I did upload it and it is in use with HotWire. My TOS? 2.06 with your board (Two of 'em in both my Megas) Fred Olivas >Atari-ST RoundTable >Category 14, Topic 20 >Message 208 Mon Oct 11, 1993 >J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:50 EDT > >Fred is replacing the FOLDRxxx.PRG function with the identical function of >ICD. It's quite safe to do so. Using them both is additive and redundant. > >John What John said. Fred Olivas ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 51 Wed Oct 13, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 23:10 EDT John @ Codehead A search of a GEMSpool disk file of an AtariWorks documents shows no occurence of a "1b 26 6c" string which precedes the print 'n' copies in HP PCL. Attempts to insert it at the start of the file result in one copy printing. Attempts to insert after the first ESC sequence that sets the printer to 300 dpi has the same result. Patching it onto the end of the file - ditto. This one may take some headscratchin' and diggin'. In the meanwhilst I has bought meself a Canon PC6L copier ('cause I needs it for other stuff too). Re: ACCENT.PRG Deleting ACCENT from the Auto folder eliminates the 2 bomb crash on warm reboots but leaves a strange situation with NeoDesk where a program icon will highlight and then freeze the computer. Gotta do some more looking into that one also. I'm using Mandala for the screensaver - will try a different one to see if it has any effect. Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 52 Thu Oct 14, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 00:24 EDT Mike, I think the actual string would be 1B 26 6C ## 58 (## = 1 - 99 Hex). If that isn't in there, then it should use the setting in the printer. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 53 Thu Oct 14, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 02:14 EDT Mike, How about looking for a printer reset command ( "E"). Most likely all printer commands are at the very beginning of the raw printer data. If you examine it, you may find the command that's disabling your multiple copy command. Then you can either remove it, or insert your command after the printer reset. Wayne, The number of copies in an HP multiple copy command is in ASCII. At least ASCII does work (e.g. "2" or $32 prints two copies) and I believe that you can use two ASCII digits for greater than nine copies. John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 54 Thu Oct 14, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 06:22 EDT John, I thought I put .... ## ... (## 1 - 99 Hex)? ^^ Two number spaces there. Just going by what my manual says. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 55 Thu Oct 14, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 19:32 EDT Wayne & John I did a search for 1b 26 6c since that precedes the rest of the command. There was no such string in the GEMSpool file. I will look again for the ESC "E" sequence and examine all the other 1b sequences. Let you know what I find. Thanx for the tips. Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 56 Thu Oct 14, 1993 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 21:59 EDT Geeze, where has Pradip gone off to? Hopefully he's hard at work on version 2.0! Anyone seen Pradip lately? John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 57 Fri Oct 15, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 01:23 EDT M.Herbert Thanks for the info, I was wondering how much memory the fonts take up especially when running other programs under Geneva. I have a couple of other questions maybe someone could answer for me: My screens redraw twice everytime I move anything. Would a program like button fix solve that problem or is it something else? Is it possible to create a database and copy the information over to the spreadsheet? AW seems to add it as text and not values. If I could paste as values then I could use the data base for importing specific information that would work with the formulas in the SS. How do I save the configuration of the printer ACC? I have to reset it everytime I boot the computer. When printing a spreadsheet page, and with the grid off, why does AW print a box around the page? How do I get rid of that box or should I just copy the sheet to the wordprocessor? My fonts are listed on disk as numbers, how do I tell what is on a disk with fonts listed in this manner? I would like to segragate the different font families in separate folders. And one last big problem. AW seems to crash the computer when I exit it, especially in Geneva. I have a Moniterm, and when it is on, I get three bombs on the other (SM147) monitor. Thanks for any help....Steve ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 58 Fri Oct 15, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:49 EDT Al, >Your question about the Cooper typeface is one with a larger point. Ha ha! Actually it was a good post, and should be very helpful. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 59 Fri Oct 15, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:17 EDT Steve, Make sure you use Doug Wheeler's XMON driver for your Moniterm. The Atari Moniterm driver has compatibility problems. John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 60 Sat Oct 16, 1993 A.B.SMITH [Barry] at 06:22 EDT It seems to me that to get anything that resembles standard type size I have to set most fonts to something less than 12 pt. Other wise it looks like I printed my letters for chilren or the visually impaired. Is this normal or is it my printer (Pan. KX-P2624). What would be normal? _ Barry BTW, As someone said earlier, the Database is very intuitive. I had it up and running in a short session, even with no manual. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 61 Sat Oct 16, 1993 C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --] at 07:10 EDT Steve and John (and anyone), I have also been getting two bombs when exiting AW. I haven't been able to pin it down to any particular series of actions, as it doesn't do it consistently. I'm running AW from NeoDesk, usually under Geneva (STILL version 0.95!), with Speedo loade, on a MegaSTE 4, with an SM147 monitor. The crash always occurs at the very end of exiting AW, after all its windows have closed and the menu bar is gone. Other than this, it's running rock-solid on my system! Maybe it's NeoDesk 3.04, or the Geneva beta version - which I'll be able to check AS SOON AS I GET THE RELEASE VERSION, DAN!(8^})... -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 62 Sat Oct 16, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 09:39 EDT Steve, The Printer ACC should automatically update the information when you click on OK to close out the ACC. That is how mine works. As far as finding out what font a particular file is, just double click on it at the desktop or view it whatever way you want. It will look like garbage but, the first line or so will have the font name in it. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 63 Sat Oct 16, 1993 R.CARPENTE18 [Bob C.] at 14:32 EDT Has anyone gotten the 1WP2RTF program to work correctly with the RTF supported by Works? When I tried it, the document wouldn't even load correctly. Playing with Edhak, I found that the RTF format generated by 1WP2RTF was different than the one AW was looking for. After playing with the document by hand, in Edhak, I got AW to recognize it. Also, if I take a document saved as RTF in Word for Windows 2.0 and bring it to AW, the Italics and bold don't end in the correct places. However, if I go in the opposite direction (AW to Word), everything seems OK. Does anyone have any suggestions? Bob Carpenter ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 64 Sun Oct 17, 1993 L.WHITE17 [Lorne] at 00:08 EDT What is the availablity of Atari Works ? I've been waiting on my local dealer for the last two months to bring in a copy for me. I'm I in the cold up here in Canada. They suggested that there was a big bug problem, and that it was pulled until fixed. I don't get that impression in this forum. Comments please. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 65 Sun Oct 17, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 00:24 EDT Barry, "Standard" type size is not 12 pt anyway. My newspaper uses 9.3 on a 9.6 slug (i.e., it's 9.3 pt type on a white space of 9.6 pts), so maybe what you are seeing is actual 12 pt type. That's pretty large, actually. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 66 Sun Oct 17, 1993 A.B.SMITH [Barry] at 07:13 EDT Al- Thanks, I knew you'd straighten me out on this. I just realized that I must be confusing 12 pt. w/ 12LP (blah!) 12 CPI. I guess there is a big difference. More expermenting in order, I guess. Anyone- I rean the HOTWIRE PATCH and sure enough, AW now foinds my dictionary and Thesaurus W/o a hitch. W?O a manual, I can't seem to figure out how yto how to spell check a whole document? I just wrote E-MAIL to G>LABREC to try to straighten out this manual problem. I hope he comes through for me. Brian- I appreciate your forwarding one of my other manual messages to Bob Brodie. I haven't heard from him but thanks. - Barry ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 67 Sun Oct 17, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 07:34 EDT Lorne, There's no dealer at all in my (Canadian) neighbourhood, so I ordered mine by GEmail to G.LABREC, and there was no delay in getting it. (That was almost two months ago.) There is a bug problem or two, but no _big_ one - nothing that prevents Works from being usable. _Very_ usable, in fact. :) Barry, What Al said. But if you get really GIGANTIC characters in your printout (close to an inch high), you may be getting the same effect I get when I turn on my HP Laserjet while running Works and print to it - huge jaggy letters and only a corner of the page. I get around this by printing a little something with an ACC (usually EdHak) before giving the Print command from Works. After the first page, everything is normal. gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 68 Sun Oct 17, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 12:48 EDT Chuck I've had the same problem. AW crashing when I exit. I'm not running Neodesk however and I'm using Ver. 1.0 Wayne Watson Do you have to set the printer ACC everytime you boot the computer? I can set the drivers just fine, I just thought the DA would save the configureation for the next time. I have to show it the path everytime I boot. That just doesn't seem right. Thanks for the tip on finding the font names, but I couldn't find the name in any of the fonts?! Steve ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 69 Sun Oct 17, 1993 R.KOHORN [RON] at 12:51 EDT I agree with Ken, your information is always helpful Ron ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 70 Sun Oct 17, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 14:22 EDT Al & Barry One of these days your time will come. 12 points is normal type size for the bifocal/trifocal class of people who_are_NOT_visually_impaired! As you pass 40 the lens of the eye becomes stiffer and focusing on smaller typefaces is difficult except at arm's length (ever hear people say their arms are getting too short?). Newspapers are set in 9 point as a compromise between readability and editorial space. If you are doing something that will be primarily read by the over 40 crowd you _better_use_12_points or _you_won't_be_read_!! Just had to put in my farthing's worth - even if a bit off topic. BTW, Al - I need your mailing address for a package I want to send. Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 71 Mon Oct 18, 1993 R.WHITTAM [Ron - ABUG] at 03:49 EDT >It seems to me that to get anything that resembles standard type size I have >to set most fonts to something less than 12 pt. Other wise it looks like I >printed my letters for chilren or the visually impaired. Is this normal or is >it my printer (Pan. KX-P2624). What would be normal? _ Barry BTW, As someone Let's see, a "point" is 1/72 of an inch. That is a 72 point letter would be approximately 1 inch high. 12 point type would be 12/72 of an inch or 1/6th of an inch high. Measure it to verify. Maybe your printer is doing it right, maybe not. Try using 10 point or 9 point (that's more "normal"). Ron - ABUG ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 72 Mon Oct 18, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 09:18 EDT Barry, Don't feel bad. I spent an hour with the Windows version of WPerfect trying to "fix" a font problem that was caused by exactly the same confusion - 12 pt vs 12 cpi! I must've been awfully tired. Spell check an entire document by going to the top and doing a spell check. Steve, The names of the typefaces and a lot of info about them appear in the TDF (Typeface Definition File) files (say "File files" five times fast!) that BitStream distributes with the fonts. I'd attach one to this note so you can see how nifty they are, but they're copyrighted. Mike, Great point! BTW, I *am* a trifocal wearer. Al Box 4915 Syracuse Newespapers Syracuse, NY 13221 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 73 Mon Oct 18, 1993 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 20:22 EDT Chuck, I think it has something to do with accessing the Print Configuration page (SHIFT-CNT-P). I almost always get 2 bombs if I quit after invoking this screen. I am also using NeoDesk 3.04, Geneva 1.01 and Warp 9 3.80. Weird! John Gniewkowski Editor, GEnieLamp ST ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 74 Mon Oct 18, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 21:05 EDT Steve, Nope, I do not have to do anything else with the Printer ACC after I set it up the first time unless I want to change something. I just changed my paths in the Printer ACC and the ASSIGN.SYS file shouwed the update to the path. When you bootup, check your ASSIGN.SYS file and see if the path is correct from the last time you changed it. If not, then something is creating a new ASSIGN.SYS file based on an older copy of it. Do you have a boot-mananger that installs an ASSIGN.SYS file or something like that? I had a similiar problem as your (different file though) when I first started using DeskManager and forgot to update the file in it's folder. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 75 Mon Oct 18, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 22:13 EDT I sent in the registration card that came with the WP Six-0 font pack, and today I got ads for an upgrade to WP and for another WP program. They apparently don't read what platform people use. I've had bifocals (actually Varilux) for about 10 years, and have no trouble with 9 pt. text. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 76 Mon Oct 18, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 22:23 EDT Al & Ken Van, Off topic but what the heck! After going through two prescriptions for trifocals I got totally fed up with having 4 very specific focal lengths. Thought about varilux but the sides pose a problem. Finally threw the three eyed beast in back of the computer desk 'and bought 2 pair of reading glasses - one for the screen and one for reading. Tried a 9point type on a brocure for my sewing machine business and customers told me that it was too hard too read. 10 points was just barely ok. See you guys later, Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 77 Mon Oct 18, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 22:24 EDT To: John G. (GENIELAMP) Also need your mailing address, John. Got a package for you, too. Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 78 Mon Oct 18, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Kheldar] at 23:59 EDT The problem with converting CPI to Points is that CPI measures the font horizontally, and Points are a vertical measurement. If you are looking for a "standard" 10 CPI point setting it can be difficult. Some fonts give you 80 characters per line at 12 pts., others at 9 pts. Jim. P.S. As far as the Dot Matrix output goes, most of those printers output larger that they should because of the lower resolution. This is true of other "low" resolution printers. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 79 Tue Oct 19, 1993 T.HARRIS1 [SLICE] at 00:25 EDT Ron, Now, I don't know what to say. You booted and there it was... I'd like to know if you loaded a document into the word processor or if you went straight to Preference after choosing cancel from the opening menu. Al, Your message to Ron about copper is nice, but I think he needs to know if anyone has run into his font selection problem. Have you had any problems setting default. Slice ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 80 Tue Oct 19, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:11 EDT Slice, No, the default that I choose has remained the default. No problems there. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 81 Tue Oct 19, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 18:08 EDT Slice, et. al. Default font is stored in WORKS.INF. If that file is where AW expects it to be there should be no problem. I have never had a default change on me _unless_I_closed_a_doc_that_had_other_ defaults_opened_a_New_doc_and_exited_AW. That's why I use Load and one of my blank page docs instead of New. Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 82 Tue Oct 19, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 20:50 EDT Instead of running AW and loading one of the preset blank docs, just double click on the blank doc from the desktop or from a window. Or are there only two of us in all Ataridom who understand what an installed application is? :) Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 83 Tue Oct 19, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 22:45 EDT Dang nab NeoDesk only gives me 28 icons on the desktop. I need more clutter to doubleclick a doc! Or maybe I should see if I can have multiple desktops - then I can really spread myself around! Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 84 Wed Oct 20, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 00:56 EDT Desktop? What's that? Hotwire user.... ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 85 Wed Oct 20, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 01:36 EDT I understand! In fact what you can do is put that Blank page Doc on your desktop labled as your Word Processor. Then when you double click on it, you get the Word Processor! Cool. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 86 Wed Oct 20, 1993 MPMONTGOMERY at 02:53 EDT What do I do about a printer driver for the Citizen 130? I have tried the drivers and none work correctly. O 8S ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 87 Wed Oct 20, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 03:55 EDT I envision . . . Clicking on a program icon and having it open a desktop of its own with folder 'n' docs all around. Oh, the off topic, ooey, ooey, GUI madness of it all! Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 88 Wed Oct 20, 1993 C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --] at 06:59 EDT Barry, Al, Mike, Keldar, et al.: For what it's worth (if anything), in the Bitstream _Fixed-Pitch_ Courier font, 12_point_ happens to equal 10_cpi_, and 10_point_ equals 12_cpi_. Points and characters-per-inch have a more-or-less inverse relationship, especially for fixed-pitch (i.e. monospaced) fonts... Steve, John G.: I finally got Geneva 1.01 ("release 002"), and AW hasn't crashed on exiting since I installed it (the Geneva upgrade). Yay! I don't _think_ the crash on my system had anything to do with the Print Configuration screen, as I _rarely_ access it - I usually export as RTF files, and take them to work to import into MS Woiks so I can print them out on the laser printer there... Mike: Here's an idea - keep all your AW docs in their own folder, then either put that folder on NeoDesk's desktop, or open a window to the folder, size it and position it to your liking, and save the desktop. Then you'll have easier access to all your AW files from the desktop, and you'll only need an extra double-click to open the folder if you just put its icon on the desk rather than an open window... As for "clicking on a program icon..." etc., that's one thing I'd like to be able to do, too - and we _could_ do exactly that, if NeoDesk had the ability to run it's macros by double-clicking associated icons on the desktop - you could just create a macro to load an INF file, then click the icon - voila! New desktop! For now, though, we're stuck with remembering key combos to run macros (he said all teary-eyed)(8^})... ...Quick! Back to the topic!... -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 89 Wed Oct 20, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:50 EDT Al, I'm just learning about installed applications, Al. On the point size thing, I'm using 10-pt. for all the tests I give in class. I wonder if anyone has problems reading them. I have a visually impaired student with a guide dog, and she says she can read them if the contrast is good. (I do them on the SLM804.) No lie! Sorry about the off-topic. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 90 Wed Oct 20, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:54 EDT Mike, Of course you can have multiple desktops! Read Secrets of NeoDesk. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 91 Wed Oct 20, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:14 EDT Mike Hebert, Hmm, sounds like Calligrapher! (Oops!) Chuck, Just assign a macro to an fkey, and you get a new desktop in NeoDesk. This is explained in Secrets of NeoDesk. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 92 Wed Oct 20, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 16:16 EDT It really pains me to remain quiet in this discussion of multiple desktops when I know how easy it is to do with HotWire (thousands of programs or documents available within two keypresses). It's an integral part of the program's design. If anyone's interested, ask me in the HotWire topic (Cat 32, Topic 2). John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 93 Wed Oct 20, 1993 R.CARPENTE18 [Bob C.] at 20:06 EDT Has anybody had any better luck with the RTF import/export than I have? I was hoping to use this to take documents between Word for Windows 2.0 and AW. However, this hasn't worked out too well. Documents saved in RTF by AW do fine in Word for Windows. However, RTF documents saved by Word, have font problems (I had a document forget to change its point size down), mess up tabs (it mangled a simple table that was in the README.DOC in Word), and generally not be too useful. Looking at the RTF files generated by both programs, it seems that there are some file differences between the two. I'd REALLY like to be able to transfer documents (w/o using ASCII so I can save font info and text effects) so any help in getting RTF import to work better is definitely appreciated. Bob Carpenter ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 94 Wed Oct 20, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 22:34 EDT Al 'n' Chuck Ah, so! I thought I 'membered sumpin bout dat multi-desktops. Gots to find my "Secrets of NeoDesk" and read it again. John I have seen Hotwire in action on other peoples systems. I think it's just a matter of being used to NeoDesk and not wanting to learn another interface. BTW, for more off topic stuff. My checks of the AW file after processing through Speedo and GEMSpool show no evidence of the Esc 'E' sequence (1b 45) for reset. All the rest of the sequences with exception of set 300 dpi at the start and formfeed at the end deal with transfer of data onto the page. Inserting the 1b 26 6C etc string produces only an errant "X" on the page instead of multiple copies. May have to give HP a call on this one. Many thanks for your helpful suggestions. Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 95 Thu Oct 21, 1993 SAM-RAPP [<>] at 02:21 EDT I'm sure there are a few people who understand installed applications. BTW, what is the limit on the number of applications that can be installed? I have ALL my archivers installed as applications, as well as a GIF viewer and a .MID file player. ==========> Sam ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 96 Thu Oct 21, 1993 MPMONTGOMERY at 03:11 EDT How can I get a Speedo GDOS driver for the Citizen 140 or 130 Printer? ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 97 Thu Oct 21, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EDT John, But some of us still like those cute little icons we get from a GUI desktop. :) Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 98 Thu Oct 21, 1993 C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --] at 05:59 EDT All, Well, it seems to be the combination of Geneva 1.01 and AW that is causing AW to crash on exit. I tested this on a 4meg MegaSTE with TOS 2.06 at 16MHz with cache, SM147 monitor, and nothing but AW, Geneva, and Speedo loaded - and the trigger is accessing the _Page_Setup_ menu entry. No Geneva, no crash. Don't access Page Setup when Geneva is loaded, no crash. I'm posting this in the Geneva topic, also. Sure hope they fix this one quick! -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 99 Thu Oct 21, 1993 C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --] at 06:48 EDT Al, Yeah, I know! It's the ability to run macros via _the_mouse_ that I'm talking about - I don't like having to jump back and forth from the mouse to the keyboard all the time! (Just lazy, I guess!) (8^})... -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 100 Thu Oct 21, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:33 EDT No, I've had no better luck with RTF. Heck, I've even had trouble getting proper RTF transfers from one Microsoft product to another - and it's a Microsoft standard! My experience with RTF turned me back to ASCII. Sam, I hope you're right. The "Installed Application" feature of the Atari is one of the great, powerful aspects of the machine. In NeoDesk, the limit is 15, with each app allowed to have two associated filename extensions. (I'm not yet a HotWire user, but I'll bet John E. will tell us HotWire has no limit!) The TOS desktop's limit appears to be set by the absolute file size of the NewDesk and Desktop files. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 101 Thu Oct 21, 1993 K.BROOKS1 [Horizon] at 22:10 EDT Oddly enough, I've had no trouble at all importing/exporting in RTF between AW and Word 2.0 for Windows, going in either direction. But then, we're using the Bitstream Speedo fonts in Windows too via Facelift. No font translation problems, tabs all ok thus far, bold and underline where I want them. Only thing I have to watch is line spacing - make sure it's nothing less than zero or Word will scrunch it big time! Keith New Horizon ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 102 Thu Oct 21, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 23:11 EDT To: Certain parties Packages went out this noon via First Class or Priority Mail. Shoul (what's that shoul?) Should arrive next week. I have a suspicion that the RTF problem is related to the fonts used on the messy-DOS behemoths. Keith's comment seems to support that. Haven't had the experience of doing anything RTF since my wife uses GeoWorks 2.0 on her 386 (it's slow but a lot better than WinDoze). Take a look for file #30459 over the weekend. It's a demo of Easy Text Professional DTP that DOES WORK with Speedo. Well, not too bad - got two lines on topic, I did, I did! Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 103 Fri Oct 22, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 01:07 EDT Hotwire has no limit. You just install the application in another menu slot and add another 4 extensions. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 104 Fri Oct 22, 1993 SAM-RAPP [<>] at 02:04 EDT Hey! I just noticed something.... on the Works Quick Refrence Card, there is window open to the word processor. This window has graphics in it (/|\ ATARI) and it isn't just a big square box with an X on it! Amazing! Also, I recently printed a list of addresses and phone numbers that I have in a Works DB file. I used the mailing label merge in the word processor to do it. (1 label wide, 12 per page) I did run into one problem... The first record in the DB did not have any info in the phone number field. Works would not allow me to use the Phone number field on the labels until I put a space in the Phone field of the first record. After that, everything was fine. Suggestions: Allow a keystroke to fill a field with the same data from the previous record. Programmable function keys. Printing with the printers Default Font! Please!!! When making a merge file in the WP, is there any way to get more than one record per page other than the Label merge? (ex: My address list.) ===============> Sam ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 105 Fri Oct 22, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 04:13 EDT OK, I'll bite. You can install up to 74 applications in HotWire, with up to four extensions for each application. But you can install the same application in more than one of the 74 slots, so you can have dozens of extensions for the same application if you like. John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 106 Fri Oct 22, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:57 EDT Al, Hotwire is great. I haven't used it yet, but you can nest the menus, so one can call up the next one. That greatly expands the limits. Ask John. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 107 Fri Oct 22, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:43 EDT Sam, GEM graphics appear on the screen in Works. John, Ah! A limit! Only 74! (Sounds like enough...) Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 108 Fri Oct 22, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 10:40 EDT Wayne, Thanks for the help. I think you may be right. The ASSIGN.SYS file in the DSKMGR FOLDER (for use with Deskmanager) is not being updated. An ASSIGN.SYS file is being created in the root directory instead. Do you by chance know how I would get DESKMANAGER to recognize the new file or will need to copy the file to the proper folder everytime I save settings. Either way I think you have solved the problem for me. Thanks Only about 400 more problems to solve :-) Thanks, Steve >A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 20:50 EDT > >Or are there only two of us in all Ataridom who understand what an installed >application is? :) I didn't know ther were that many... I've always wished I could use the Installed app feature, I just never spent much time trying. Too many glaring problems to try and understand. I spend too much time trying to get my system wired... ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 109 Fri Oct 22, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 15:39 EDT Steve B., Just as with DESKTOP.INF files, you need to manually copy any ASSIGN.SYS files you wish to use into the Desk Manager folder. John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 110 Fri Oct 22, 1993 J.ROGOZINSK2 [Rogo] at 18:04 EDT Mike (M.HEBERT1), I've had AWs for a short time now but have had very little time to play with it, but I have d/led almost all your AW's related files and have found them very interesting. Thanks for all your hard work. Maybe you and AL (Fasoldt) should get together and write 'Secrets of AW'. I should also thank AL, reading his posts have helped a great deal in getting a quick start into AW. Thanks Al. Joe Rogo ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 111 Fri Oct 22, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 22:25 EDT To: Joe Rogo Many, many thanks for the kind words. There is a new file in the AW series called AW_BOOK.TXT that is a brief promo for my new book "Papa's Grafik Guide to AtariWorks Word Processor". It is aimed primarily toward new to intermediate AtariWorks users but I think some of the "power" users may find a tip or two of value in it. Download the file and it will tell you how to order a copy direct from me at Papa's Grafik Press or you can wait for it to show up on dealers shelves sometime in December. Again, thanks for the kind words. I do appreciate them - makes the effort worthwhile. Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 112 Sat Oct 23, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 00:59 EDT Ken, I've seen the HotWire demo (called it up from the bowels of my HD yesterday) and it seems very nice. Geneva users would get an alternative to NeoDesk, for one thing, when the m-tasking version of HotWire is released. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 113 Sat Oct 23, 1993 T.HARRIS1 [SLICE] at 01:48 EDT AL, OK. Are you opening a new document [i.e. NEW] or opening a document that you've made before [i.e. Open]. Slice M.HEBERT1, I've not had any problems in this. I trying to help Al. Thanks Slice ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 114 Sat Oct 23, 1993 A.B.SMITH [Barry] at 06:48 EDT Everyone- The lost is found! After months of intense periodic searches, my wife found the WORKS manual under the rear seat in our Suburban. I hadn't bought a new manual yet but G.LABREC had already asked me for my mailing address via E- mail so I was close . Thanks to all who have helped me with WORKS during the search. Does anyone know why my printer, Panasonic KX-P2624, feeds an extra sheet of paper after completing a print with WORKS and how to change a setting to make it not do this? I haven't tried a multi-page document to see if it does this betwween pages also, but it does it after every individual printing. - Barry ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 115 Sat Oct 23, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 08:05 EDT Why load in a blank doc? Can't you save different styles and then load them in later? I thought this was the purpose of the Save Configuration (?) feature that allows you to give the file another name. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 116 Sat Oct 23, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:52 EDT Steve, Actually, the best way to get used to the features of an installed app is probably to learn the drag 'n' drop technique. Open the folder where Works is located and drag one of the Works text (or database or spreadsheet) files to the Works icon. Then let it go. Much faster than clicking on Works and then loading a file. After that, you can try installing Works into the desktop file, and you only have to double-click on a Works data file. BTW, yes, you must copy all those revised assign.sys (and other) files to the location specified in any boot manager. Joe, You're very kind. Thanks. Mike, Did you create your book in Works? Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 117 Sun Oct 24, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 03:32 EDT Al Book was created entirely in AtariWorks using the techniques outlined in the book. Mastering was done to the "baby" Laserjet 4L and copies via Canon PC6RE. Would prefer production with the laserjet (that's the ongoing with John @ Codehead) but so far not to be. It is book on demand with virtual zero budget. Graphics via PI3_SNAP and Touchup with a wee bit of help from Arabesque at times. Wayne The whole idea behind using the blank page docs was to avoid the problem of someone else's defaults creeping in. Your suggestion re saving defaults works but you have to remember to load them in. The problem area is when you have run AtariWorks it loads the WORKS.INF file which can be overwritten in memory by some other document. When you exit AtariWorks it appears to write WORKS.INF again assuming that the last set of defaults used it to be the next set used. That can lead to some surprises later. Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 118 Sun Oct 24, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 13:22 EDT Mike, Thanks. Am sending you e-mail. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 119 Sun Oct 24, 1993 B.SALDANA1 [BOB S] at 15:44 EDT I got a kick yesterday using my Panasonic laptop to write a letter saving it out in an Ascii file then importing it in AW with no problem. I just had to try all the import options to find which one gave me a page with just the text and no control codes. When I found the right one it seemed to load in with the default of a previous document(one of M.Herberts docs)with its' defaults I had saved. Anyway it sure made it easy. I use my laptop wherever I want then save to disk and print upstairs on my Atari with Atari Works using a Canon BJ 20. I wrote the letter in GeoWorks 1.2 using Geowrite and being that I only have one meg and a 20 meg hard drive Windows is out of the question. The only problen I had was drawing an illustration to put in the doc. Atari works didn't have the freehand that I needed or rotate. So I used Pagestream to draw then used Image Copy Colour to "rubberband" the area pressed enter and saved as an IMG file and imported it to my doc. Make sure the picture is above the end of the page or else it will get cropped. Since I couldn't see the ruler I just pressed return till End was below my picture. It took a little while to figure out. Easydraw wouldn't let me save cause it couldn't find the Meta.SYS file. Heck I just got my system redone because I wasn't able to print to my 9 pin because I didn't realise I had Harlekins spooler activated and dropped using Gdos with Speedo. Do I need both? Pradip is probably on the beach basking in the sun somewhere near Hawaii getting refreshed sipping some tropical drink choosing from his basket of fresh fruit knowing what a fine job he has done to jump start Ataris' flagship computer figuring what else he do to improve things; thinking he made the right decision not to write a 64bit 3D Jaguar Keyboard version. That is what they do for Genius's at Atari isn't it? Bob S ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 120 Mon Oct 25, 1993 R.KASSOF at 20:01 EDT Hi: I've been using AW for a couple of months now - mostly just some WP and very little SS. I initially had a problem with SpeedoGDOS that resolved itself after much reconfiguring of my C: drive. Unfortunately, I don't really know what I didi right but it IS working. Any word on UPGRADE to 2.0 yet? Also, some suggestions for future features: Spreadsheet DATA FILL function - like Opus2.2 has - start a column off with 0 and fill in by 5's to 500; start a column with Jan. and go to Dec., etc. More DATE formats - "month,year" would be helpful for instance. Having a RULER in SS and DB would be nice so you could get an idea if your report would fit on a single page, or do you need to adjust column width, point size, etc. That's all for now Ron K. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 121 Mon Oct 25, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 22:12 EDT To: Ron K AtariWorks Spreadsheet has a fill function. Create your formula then copy it to a range of cells. Input a starting value and it will increment for you. Won't do months though but you can make a template and save it for future use. Under Format there is a command for column width. Set up the widths you want in the dialog box then export it to your WP doc with the Copy as Metafile command (turn the grid off if you don't want it to show). If you use Copy there will be an extra 1/2 inch space at the left side of your document where the row numbers would be if you turned that on. In Database select Show List under the Format menu. At the upper left of the screen there will be a box with the current record number. Click on one of the column dividing lines and hold the mouse button down. The record number will change to the width of the column. Drag the column divider out to the width you want and that is what you will get in your document when you Copy the field to it. If you have a very wide field (e.g., more than 80 characters) you _must_ use Copy to export it to your document. If you use Merge you will have a non-editable line that exceeds the width of your page. We'uns is all awaitin' for Version 2 with fish on our breath. Hope this helps some. Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 122 Mon Oct 25, 1993 G.SETTER1 [Gar] at 22:56 EDT Hi, Who has Works and Pagestream? How are you moving files between them? Right now I'm going through ASCII. I'd like to save in Works native format, and then convert to a format that PGS supports. Does such a converter exist? Thanks, Gar ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 123 Mon Oct 25, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 23:07 EDT Gar, What you got is what you got. Pagestream still has not brought out the RTF import module so you gotta go ASCII. Coming the other way you can print a Pagestream file to disk as an IMG and import it into AtariWorks - sneaky way to get some text effects, eh wot? Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 124 Tue Oct 26, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:01 EDT Mike Hebert, Received the copy of Papa's Grafik Guide yesterday at work, and found it an absolute joy. I'll write a cogent review in the next few days and post it here, so this will be just a quick recommendation for all who use Atari Works: BUY THIS BOOK! It's a great example of the destop publishing capabilities built into Works, and it also has dozens and dozens of helpful tips and little bits of information that most of us probably did not know before. Mike, PLEASE put your name on the cover! Give yourself some credit. You don't even name yourself on the title page. This work is worth shouting about. Everyone who wants to use the power built into Atari Works should buy this 100- page book. It's $16.95 plus S+H from Papa's Grafik Press, 1228 North School Street, Honolulu, HI 96817. A couple of very minor points, Mike. 1. The user does not need to have a Falcon to use the audio marginalia feature; any machine from the STe up has the required hardware inside, and all that's needed is audio-manager software. 2. Works has a much different look under Geneva and MultiTOS, with 3D buttons in the toolbar and so on. It would be nice to have at least one graphic showing the 3D look. 3. I'd love to see a note added describing the typefaces used in the creation of the book. This may be the first book created under Works/Speedo, and it would be interesting to read more about the production process. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 125 Tue Oct 26, 1993 S.WINICK at 06:12 EDT Al, We received our first copy of Papa's Graftik Guide as well the other day. It definitely looks like an excellent product that should sell very well, and will become a permanent stock fixture in the book department. ;-] Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 126 Tue Oct 26, 1993 PRADIP [Pradip@Works] at 13:24 EDT Received a complementary copy of 'Papa's Grafik Guide to AW WP' yesterday. Thanks a lot Mike. At the first glance, it looks like an excellent peace of work. I would recommend it to everyone who is using Works. Thanks once again Mike and I am sure this book will do really well. Pradip ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 127 Tue Oct 26, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou] at 18:56 EDT So can someone post the ordering information for Mike's book? ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 128 Tue Oct 26, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 21:44 EDT CLou, The price is $16.95 plus $2.00 shipping/handling for Priority Mail. The address is: Papa's Grafik Press 1228 North School Street Honolulu, HI 96817 'Papa' Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 129 Tue Oct 26, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 21:52 EDT Al, Thanks for the endorsement! I may re-do page 99 to incorporate some of your suggestions. As for Geneva and MTOS I was tempted but decide d not to - in f act I was tempted to do Geneva flavor screen shots throughout! Reason I didn't was to keep the screenshots as much like the average user would see and not lead to some idea that part of what I was doing required Geneva or MultiTOS. Thanks for the tip on audio marginalia. I wasn't aware that my STe's could do that also. I look forward to your review. Sheldon, Glad to see you got your copy OK. Looking fow rward to your order. 'Papa' Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 130 Tue Oct 26, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 21:54 EDT Is there a way to lose the box when printing a spreadsheet without the grid? Or do I have to move the data to a word processing document? I have to admit that the output looks pretty darn good. My next attempt at magic will be an attempt to port the spreadsheet into Claris Works 2.0 (to use word-wrap in a ss cell as well as background fill patterns if I'm in a gaudy mood. ) *s ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 131 Tue Oct 26, 1993 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 23:19 EDT Al, Maybe we could tag-team and do a full blown review for the Lamp? I'm planning on doing a short quick look for this months edition (matter of fact, that's what my 'Editor's Desk' is about. This is one fine piece of work - let me tell you. And there is hopefully more to come (SS & DB books coming next year!) John P.S. Pradip! Where have you been?!?!? ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 132 Wed Oct 27, 1993 C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --] at 06:31 EDT Al, To further clarify your point about Audio Marginalia on STE's: I've tried it on my MegaSTE and the only "audio-manager software" I had installed was the NeoDesk control panel - which has the basic controls for the volume, balance, bass, and treble settings for the STE's audio outputs. I don't know - and I don't think - I even needed _that_ loaded. Just didn't want anyone to get the impression that any additional software purchase was required - I'm sure that if the control panel sound controls _are_ necessary, the Atari SOUND.CPX will work as well as the NeoDesk control panel... ANYONE FROM ATARI: I think I never got around to asking this, but... I got my copy of AW from The Computer Network at the Glendale show, and it DID NOT contain a warranty card. It had only the "Free Upgrade" coupon, which said to wait for the announcement of version 2 and then send in the coupon. On the other hand, in the excitement of the Glendale show, I _may_ have filled out the warranty card and mailed it and then completely forgot about it (8^})...If someone could check to confirm whether or not I'm registered, I'd appreciate it a lot - and if I'm not registered, please let me know what I need to do... ...And on the GRIPPING hand, did Jerry Pournelle ever write anything about the Falcon? (Just had to think of someway to use that phrase! (8^})... -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 133 Wed Oct 27, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:47 EDT John, Probably not for the upcoming edition, but sure, if I have more lead time. Get back to me on this. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 134 Wed Oct 27, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 16:35 EDT OK, if the STe can get audio out with NeoDesk or a CPX how do you get it in? Extra hardware? MIDI interface? MegaSTe or 1040STe, too? Audio marginalia is a great idea for on-line helps and quicky notes to oneself but if it needs extra hardware/software to support it there won't be that many people so equipped. I understand the Falcon will take a microphone input directly. Am I correct? 'Papa' Mike Hebert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 135 Wed Oct 27, 1993 DMJ [dmj] at 19:49 EDT Mike: The Falcon has audio digitizing built into the computer. On the STe, the playback hardware (DMA sound) is available, but extra hardware is required to record sound. -dmj ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 136 Wed Oct 27, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou] at 22:29 EDT Thanks for the ordering info, Mike. Sounds like a great resource to have. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 137 Wed Oct 27, 1993 M.HEBERT1 at 22:34 EDT That's what I figured. I didn't want to put in something for audio marginalia unless I knew what I was talking about. Great thing to have but I do believe it will be a while before the user base catches up to it. Still a lot of ST's out there and people who want to look better in type than 1st Word allows. Thanks, 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 138 Thu Oct 28, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 02:10 EDT Mike, AW expects a 12.5 KHz, Signed AVR sample. There are lots of samples available in the libs which can be converted using dmj's excellent SoundLab. If you have a sound sampling cart (such as Replay4) you can make your own samples using SoundLab. I've put Audio Marginalia in AW on my MSTe. It is kind of neat. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 10:38 PM Mountain Time Wednesday, October 27, 1993 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 139 Thu Oct 28, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:15 EDT Mike Allen, How common are the sound carts? I've seen them but don't know anyone locally who has one. It may behoove me to do a revision to at least make mention of that capability on the STe's. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 140 Thu Oct 28, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:07 EDT Chuck, Thanks for clarifying the audio issue. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 141 Thu Oct 28, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 22:24 EDT Papa, The sound carts used to be a lot more common when there were more Atari dealers. 8^{ I believe that Oregon Research is now handling sound carts from Europe. Check with them in Cat 33. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 7:37 PM Mountain Time Thursday, October 28, 1993 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 142 Thu Oct 28, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 22:52 EDT Mike, Thanks for the info on the sound carts. I'm going to see if I can squeeze that into the book. Being "book on demand" it's relatively easy to revise providing I don't end up with more pages. 'Papa' A ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 143 Fri Oct 29, 1993 K.BROOKS1 [Horizon] at 01:06 EDT If you haven't done so yet people, get yourself a copy of Mike Hebert's Works manual "Papa's Grafik Guide" - it is worth the price! Clearly written with great suggestions for templates, styles labels, special effects. WOW! Nice goin' Mike! Keith New Horizon ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 144 Fri Oct 29, 1993 SAM-RAPP [<>] at 02:20 EDT Free upgrade to version 2 coupon? Hey! I didn't get a coupon! =========> Sam ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 145 Fri Oct 29, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 04:29 EDT To: Sam Free upgrade to Version 2??? I have a coupon and it says the upgrade will be $5.00 when it becomes available some-a-day. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 146 Fri Oct 29, 1993 B.DEWITT [Perfesser] at 20:52 EDT Does anyone know whether there is a way when formatting a paragraph in AtariWorks WP mode of grabbing the "left line indent" marker WITHOUT having to first move the "first line indent" marker out of the way? Also, it seems to take an unusually long time to get AW to come up on my Falcon (about 25 seconds). Without describing all the particulars of my setup, what might influence the load times? Finally, I am using the HP4L laser printer with my Falcon. It seems to take forever for the printer to spit out a document from AW. For example, I printed a 1/2 page of plain text in 12 point type and it took 1 minute and 25 seconds just for the printer to begin printing. Again, without going into the particulars of my setup, is there a way to speed this up? Th'Perfesser ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 147 Fri Oct 29, 1993 P-DIRECT [Sean@TWP] at 21:06 EDT Perfesser: The LaserJet driver takes forever to print on the HP 2, 3, and 4 also. I think that it doesn't bother to compress the information going out to the printer, so instead it sends the mass of uncompressed info. The only solution is to beg someone to make a proper driver. See if you have width tables on, that can make loading times slow sometimes. Sean Dougherty Two Worlds Publishing ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 148 Fri Oct 29, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 21:28 EDT Perfesser, Double click on the First Line Indent and Left Indent markers. This will call a Dialog Box for entry of indent values. After you have set them the way you want go to the Format menu and click on Copy Format... which calls another Dialog Box. Give this format a name then go to the File menu and Save Format/Style... to an .FMT file. Your 'PF' box at the upper left of the tool bar will become active. To select that paragraph format click on 'PF' followed by the name of the paragraph format. Easier to do than describe. All & Sundry, A peculiarity of AtariWorks was brought to my attention (Thanks, Keith) today. AtariWorks does not rotate IMG graphics. This means that an IMG placed on a landscape page will not print properly. I am not surprised at that since IMG's were a last minute addition to AtariWorks. The cure, of course, is to vectorize the IMG if you have access to Convector, Silhouette or Avant Vector. Another peculiarity noted last night which may be related more to Speedo is rotation of fonts. I created a rotated text frame in My_Draw and imported it to a portrait page in AtariWorks. Much to my surprise ALL the text on the page immediately rotated to match the imported text frame. Experiments in landscape mode produced the same results. I don't know at this point whether the problem is with AtariWorks, Speedo or the interface between the two. I would be interested to hear if this happens with rotated text frames from EZ_Draw also or from the new version of Silhouette (if anyone has it). 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 149 Sat Oct 30, 1993 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 00:39 EDT Al, Okey-doke. I just highlighted "Papa" Mike as one of the 'Patron Saints' of our Atari Community (see the Novemeber issue of GEnieLamp ST to learn more...) Maybe we can do a two on one or something for December. At any rate, please go forward with your plans to upload your thoughts and review here - I'd hate to think of anyone going an addition month without this valuable resource. This kind of stuff really shows what talented and helpful people we are blessed to have working this platform - there are many of them out there, to be sure, but people like "Papa" stand out by their talent and helpfulness. People, listen to Al (I know I do :), this 'guide' is one of the finest software manuals I have come acorss in a awhile. And when he gets volumes 2 and 3 done - well, AW will become so much more useful - well worth the investment. I have asked Mike to consider including disks with helpful templates and the like in it for the SS and DB functions. Maybe if we forward any new and interesting things we are working on he might find it helpful? John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 150 Sat Oct 30, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 02:30 EDT John 'n' Al, In the words of a not-so-old song, "you're a drunkard's dream if I ever did see one!" 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 151 Sat Oct 30, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:52 EDT Up On Cripple Creek "not so old"? You're dating yourself a bit there, Papa! :) Thanks for the tip about double-clicking on the margin markers. And I'm looking forward to seeing the book! gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 152 Sat Oct 30, 1993 C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --] at 06:34 EDT Sam and Mike, Well, here's what the coupon says, word-for-word: This coupon is good for one free upgrade to AtariWorks _After_the_release_of_AtariWorks_version_2.0_is_announced, send this coupon along with your original program disks, and $4.95 for shipping and handling to: Atari Corporation,... Okay, so you are paying $5.00 for shipping and handling, but hopefully they'll be shipping the upgrade with the boxed-binder-type manual I seem to recall reading about in this topic a LONG time ago... (8^})... -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 153 Sat Oct 30, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 16:49 EDT gnox, Some songs are timeless. You should be seeing the book RSN. Watch the snail. Chuck, Ah, yes. $4.95 s/h. Ringbound manual would be nice. gnox again, The double click works in the tab bar to call a Dialog Box for setting the current tab style also. I find it easier than dragging the little suckers. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 154 Sat Oct 30, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 21:38 EDT To All: Just finished uploading MyDraw Ver. 1.10 the great German GEM drawing program with FULL SPEEDOGDOS support including text rotation to 1/10th degree accuracy, Bezier polygons & polylines, graphing functions, etc. All menus & dialogs in German but the program is VERY INTUITIVE. Includes a short English README by yours truly. AtariWorks doesn't like the rotated text from this one either but at least now I can munge up a page of text to 0.1 degree precision! The pictures are no problem to AtariWorks - just rotated text. Time to dump EZDraw, guys. No need to wait for Silhouette. MyDraw is here NOW! Enjoy it !! 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 155 Sun Oct 31, 1993 R.BEATTY3 [Buffalo Bob] at 02:42 EST Mike, Actually, I have the sound bite of Bart saying "I think it sucks..." and now I'm just waiting to send that little item to someone via marginalia. Buffalo Bob ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 156 Sun Oct 31, 1993 D.FREELAND [SAXMAN] at 11:18 EST Is there any way to specicfy the thickness of a line you are drawing like you can in Cal 3?? Works only seems to give four choices and the thickest of the four does not seem that thick. David ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 157 Sun Oct 31, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 17:52 EST Is there a sample doc anywhere with audio marginalia? Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 158 Sun Oct 31, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 19:50 EST Ken Van, I'll email you a doc with sound. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 5:06 PM Mountain Time Sunday, October 31, 1993 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 159 Sun Oct 31, 1993 B.DEWITT [Perfesser] at 22:26 EST Thanks 'Papa' and Sean for the replies to my questions. Th'Perfesser ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 160 Sun Oct 31, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:17 EST Saxman, How about drawing TWO lines and laying them side by side, a little overlapping? It's a trick we've used professionally. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 161 Mon Nov 01, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 01:15 EST John G., Just downloaded the Genielamp. Thank you for the very nice mini-review. I hope I can live up to your expectations for the DB and SS works. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 162 Mon Nov 01, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:27 EST Saxman, ... or draw a filled rectangle of the height you want (of course that would only work with horizontal or vertical lines). gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 163 Mon Nov 01, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:29 EST Mike, Got the doc with sound. Thanks. I very much appreciate your help. Can't wait to try it out. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 164 Mon Nov 01, 1993 J.ROGOZINSK2 [Rogo] at 20:05 EST Mike, Thanks for the info on the book but ordering will have to go on hold for awhile. I still have to up date my Warp9, pay for AW and the extra Speedo fonts I ordered along with the new printer I bought, boy I hated credit cards. As for kind words the files you uploaded where at least worth that much and probably alot more. So, Thanks again. Joe Rogo ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 165 Mon Nov 01, 1993 M.OSTRANDER1 [Mike O] at 21:39 EST Can AtariWorks be purchased separately from SpeedoGDOS? I already own Speedo and am not keen on paying for it again. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 166 Mon Nov 01, 1993 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 23:12 EST Papa, Well, I'm sure I came far from doing the guide justice. If Al does a review, however, then you'll see how _really_ good the guide is! I'm sure the DB and SS volumes will be terrific. Although I'm wondering about the release of 2.0. I am hoping the SS module of AW will be beefed up a bit (allowing you to select the X and Y axis on the chart, one of my pet peeves) and will cause you a massive rewrite. Although, now that I think of it, with you ingenious method of production, you could switch to an upgraded guide with no loss in spoiled inventory! John E. Gniewkowski Editor, GEnieLamp ST ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 167 Tue Nov 02, 1993 D.FREELAND [SAXMAN] at 01:24 EST Thank you everyone for the tips on line drawing. Can't wait to see what 2.0 has in store . David ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 168 Tue Nov 02, 1993 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 15:23 EST Mike O, yes, you should be able to buy Atari Works seperate from Speedo. I forget the price, though. You'd have to ask your dealer about that. Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 169 Tue Nov 02, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 21:41 EST John G. I'm wondering about ver 2.0 myself. I hope Pradip will be able to squeeze in all the "wish list" stuff and still keep it able to run on a 1mByte machine. I have sent him Email asking to be put on the list of beta testers but no reply yet. Perhaps I should be putting that request to Messrs. Brodie and Rehbock - or even Sam the Man. I would like to have a head start on book revisions for version 2.0 so as to have it ready when 2.0 goes to market. I am thinking of something along the line of a "send my your old cover" special pricing to buyers of the current Papa's Grafik Guide when it becomes outdated. Don't want to gouge my fellow Atarians but will need to cover costs. All that is in the future though. I have a feeling that AtariWorks will remain in its present state until the Falcon and Jaguar are well and firmly established. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 170 Wed Nov 03, 1993 S.WINICK at 03:15 EST 'Papa', The shipment of Papa's Graftik Guides arrived safely and are now prominently displayed on our bookshelves. They should prove to be a good seller. Thanks for providing us with such an excellent addition to our customer offerings. ;- ] Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 171 Wed Nov 03, 1993 TQUINN [Terry~Sysop] at 10:20 EST I have a question which maybe someone can answer - How does one get AtariWorks to print graphics. I have followed the instructions in the documentation concerning this but have never succeeded in obtaining a printout which incorporated any graphics. This is regardless of whether I started with IMG or GEM files. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 172 Wed Nov 03, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 17:06 EST Terry, If you start with a GEM vector graphic you should be able to see it on screen. Select Import Picture under the Edit menu then click on the selector for GEM metafile. The Fileselector opens and you can pick your graphic. The picture will be imported with its upper left corner at the current cursor position so make sure that your cursor is positioned correctly. Also make sure there are enough carriage returns entered to move the "End of Page" below the lower edge of the picture. The GEM metafile will be incorporated into the AW file and should print without any problems. If you want an IMG follow the same steps as above but select Bitmap Image. You should save the IMG in the same folder as your AW file since AW does not incorporate the IMG into the file - only the path to the IMG. This cuts down dramatically on file size and is the same method used by Ventura Publisher on the MessyDOS platform. The IMG should show on screen as an "X-ed" box. Again make sure there are enough carriage returns to put the page end below the bottom of the graphic. Hope this helps. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 173 Wed Nov 03, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 21:33 EST Sheldon, Glad to hear the "Grafik Guides" arrived ok. Hope you sell out over the weekend! 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 174 Thu Nov 04, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:28 EST 'Papa', > You should save the IMG in the same folder as your AW file since AW > does not incorporate the IMG into the file - only the path to the IMG. Ah, I wondered why the files were so compact when they include graphics! But if the path is in there, why save the IMG in the same folder with the file? (So you don't forget and move it later, maybe?) gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 175 Thu Nov 04, 1993 TQUINN [Terry~Sysop] at 09:56 EST 'Papa' - thats what I have been trying to do and it just doesn't seem to work. All I ever get is a largish box with lines running diagonally (from corner to corner) across it. I have yet to get a printout of any graphic regardless of size of either the GEM (generated from TouchUP) or IMG varieties. Terry Quinn ST RT Sysop and BBS Janitor ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 176 Thu Nov 04, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 14:20 EST gnox, Yup, gotta keep the IMG in the same path as it was originally drawn from. Terry, The GEM file that Touchup generates does not contain any graphic info. Touchup seems to use it for its Outprint program. If you are getting the "X" box on printout that is because AtariWorks is unable to find the IMG. Try again but when you select the image click on the selector for bitmap picture and import the file with the .IMG extender. It should work. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 177 Fri Nov 05, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 03:31 EST Papa, The way I understand AW is that a .GEM graphic will show up on the screen, but a .IMG will just show the box with an X in it. Maybe that is what you said, but I was a little confused. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 1:01 AM Mountain Time Friday, November 5, 1993 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 178 Fri Nov 05, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 04:30 EST Mike Allen, That's correct. A .GEM vector graphic will appear on screen. An .IMG bitmap graphic will appear as an "X-ed" box of a size determined by the .IMG header information (if it was included in the file - some don't have size info in the header). That is dierence #1 and is relatively unimportant since you get used to not seeing your IMG's on screen rather quickly. The important difference is that while .GEM vector graphic is incorporated into the AtariWorks .STW file an .IMG bitmap image is NOT incorporated into the .STW file - only it's filename and the path to it. This is why .IMG bitmap graphic files should always be in the same folder as the .STW file that references it. In some cases (if the folder has been copied from one drive partition to another or to floppy and back down to another partition) the .IMG will seem to get lost even when it IS IN THE FOLDER. The remedy is to Select Picture, [Delete] it, and Import Picture again and finally save the document to force a rewrite othe filename and path. I find that simply putting all the .IMG's I will be using in a document in that doc's folder before Importing them takes care of the "lost bitmap graphic" syndrome very reliably. Admittedly this is not the ide. It is a compromise tween manageable file size and portability of fil. Atarorks is in the same company asentura Publisher in this regard. I got to thinking after my last post to Terry that possibly he might be working on a floppy based system and losing his pictures when he changes disks. Hopefully this longer post will clarify things for him and for anyone else who is wonderwhat I have been rattling on about. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 179 Fri Nov 05, 1993 TQUINN [Terry~Sysop] at 10:37 EST Thanks Papa - ------------