========================================================================= (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== Category 14, Topic 20 Message 1 Sat Feb 06, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 13:17 EST The following message is excerpted from the transcript of last night's RTC with Bob Brodie, Director of Communications for Atari Corp. It is presented here for your information but may not be copied or reprinted without the expressed permission of this RoundTable. However, the full transcript is available as file # 26714 - BRODIE5.ARC and may be reprinted in its entirety. Let's talk about Atari Works at this point, and try to give you a glimpse of what is coming with that product. Atari Works is a fully integrated word processor, database, and spreadsheet. It's intended to provide the average user just about anything that they might require in a package to be used in either the home, or for a small business/home office scenario. Most of our energies with Atari Works have been focused on the word processor component of Works, as we believe that word processing is still the most common usage for home users. The Atari Works word processor offers multiple documents, full cut and paste between documents and the other portions of Works, easy set up of justification (left, right, center, or proportional), and importing of GEM metafile images. Atari Works has full SpeedoGDOS support, which means multiple scalable outline fonts with multiple sizes, and your usual bold, italics, underline, outline, superscript, subscript, footnotes, and headers. Works uses the Proximity dictionary system, and updated version of the system that was used with Word Up and Word Flair II. There is also a thesaurus included with Works. Works has full search and replace capabilities, again easily activated by drop down menus. One of the features that I really enjoy in using Atari Works is the exceptionally easy mail merge capabilities with Atari Works database module. It's always been something of a pain for me to have to mail merge. It seemed to me that there was never really a system that felt very intuitive to me for mail merging. With Works, there is a drop down menu called "Begin Merge" that allows you to begin the process. It's TERRIFIC!!! On the editing side of the coin, Works allows you to transpose letters that just need to be flip-flopped with a Control-T command. Its also "intelligent" about it's editing, in that if you begin moving around text, Works will recognize the need for additional spaces and automatically insert the spaces for you. There are also commands that will allow you to do a number of different text commands, like setting areas to all caps, or all lower case, and other text handling. The word processor of Atari Works also supports the importation of standard ASCII text, the Microsoft Rich Text Format (RTF) files. This is an increasingly popular format used with PC and Mac word processors, like Microsoft Word. The logical extension of that is that your documents at work can be saved out as .RTF files, and readily brought into Atari Works with the formatting fully intact!! The database portion of Atari Works will import .DBF files, tab delimited ASCII, and comma delimited ASCII. The Atari Works database is a breeze to set up and work with, too! If you start a new database file, the system begins prompting you for field names, until you tell it you're done. Once the fields are entered, you simply click on the fields and hold down the mouse button while you drag the field to the desired size! Simple, eh? You can add additional fields later by simply clicking on the database form with your mouse. Fields are moved about the page simply by clicking and dragging them. You can display the records in a form fashion, or in a list fashion that looks very spreadsheet-ish to me. :) Since everything in Atari Works is fully GEM compliant, you can also highlight portions of the database records, and save out the area as a GEM metafile and drop it into your document! Of course, this also applies to the spreadsheet as well. That makes displaying graphs and tables as part of your document easier than it's ever been before. Bill Rehbock, the product manager for Atari Works, tells me that the database portion of Works will feel very familiar to anyone that has ever used a database on a Mac. My sentiment was that I didn't find an overpowering need to run to the docs just to get things going, the database has a very comfortable "feel" to it. I'm not generally comfortable with ANY database, so I have great confidence that most of you will really enjoy the database portion of Atari Works. The spreadsheet portion of Atari Works is Excel command compatible. Our intention with the spreadsheet is not to compete against stand alone products like LDW Power, but to provide a good, basic speadsheet for users to be able to chart, graph, and track their finances. We have some portions of our business presently tracking their finances under the spreadsheet of Atari Works. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 2 Sat Nov 06, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:58 EST All, I've been looking through Papa's Grafik Guide, and all I can say is: if you want to get the most out of the AtariWorks word processor, you NEED this book. It's an integrated tutorial that not only includes dozens of tips and tricks that aren't in the manual, but also teaches the elements of page design and publishing. And it's an excellent demonstration of what Works can do with a laser printer. Papa, When you mentioned that you're _not_ a beta tester for AW, I could hardly believe it! I've never seen a non-employee do as much for a program as you are doing for AW, both in the book and here on GEnie. (You're forgiven for anything you've said about PageStream. ;) gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 3 Sat Nov 06, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 15:00 EST gnox, Ah, shucks! 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 4 Sat Nov 06, 1993 WALLY.W [ Wally / NC ] at 22:06 EST Howdy, Is the spreadsheet in Atari Works capable of importing a Lotus spreadsheet file? Best regards, Wally ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 5 Sun Nov 07, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 04:09 EST Wally, If you mean is AtariWorks capable of importing a Lotus .WKS file the answer is _no_. If you mean can AtariWorks use a spreadsheet created in Lotus or one of its many clones the answer is a _qualified_ yes. AtariWorks can import a spreadsheet in ASCII format with either comma or tab delimited cells, or it can import a spreadsheet as a database .DBF file. Most of the Lotus versions and clones thereof are capable of exporting in ASCII. These files can be imported into AtariWorks and, with a bit of "massaging", made to work. If you are wanting portability of data between Lotus and AtariWorks you will be disappointed. It can be done but the effort is time intensive and can be frustrating. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 6 Sun Nov 07, 1993 WALLY.W [ Wally / NC ] at 23:01 EST Howdy, Papa, good answer, thanks. I'm still getting AtariWorks, but will now have to get something like Opus or LDW for the spreadsheet stuff. Best regards, Wally ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 7 Mon Nov 08, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 00:44 EST Wally, I also use Opus but wasn't aware that it could handle Lotus format files. Perhaps mine is too old a version. The AtariWorks spreadsheet is a serviceable tool so long as you don't need to exchange data with other spreadsheets. There are some improvements that we have all been asking to be included in Version 2 and Lotus/LDW power import is one them. It should be remembered that AtariWorks is designed to be an integrated suite of applications with primary emphasis on word processing. The database and spreadsheet are excellent tools in their own right but are primarily intended to function as support applications for the word processor. I know you'll be very happy with AtariWorks. Although it does have its quirks it is an overall excellent program and acquits itself well against other programs selling for 2 to 4 times the price. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 8 Mon Nov 08, 1993 J.MORRISON38 [~ Jimmo ~] at 02:01 EST Is the AW spreadsheet 3-dimensional? I would need at least 13 levels in the Z plane. ~ Jimmo ~ ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 9 Mon Nov 08, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:54 EST Jimmo, The AtariWorks spreadsheet is 2-dimensional. The database can be used to "coagulate" separate spreadsheet planes to form the 3rd dimension but I don't think you would care to try - bound to be frustrating. Come to think of it you could also do the "coagulation" in the spreadsheet also but you would still need the services of the data base and wordprocessor to pull it together and there would be no real time "what if" capability. Gee, I coulda' jest said, "No." Old folks sometimes tend to run off at the mouth, I guess! 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 10 Mon Nov 08, 1993 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 23:48 EST Gee, looks like someone is working on the 'Spreadsheet Guide'! ;) John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 11 Tue Nov 09, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 01:50 EST Yo ho, yo ho, it's off to work we go . . . (chuckle, chuckle) 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 12 Tue Nov 09, 1993 S.AGARWAL [SANJAY] at 02:23 EST I have noticed a problem that I hope someone can help with (are you listening 'papa') :-} Sometimes when using fully justified text, the occasional line prints a little beyond the right margin, giving a poor result. This has been noticed when printing to my SLM and moreso when faxing using ST fax 2.0. Any suggestions??? Thanks, Sanjay. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 13 Tue Nov 09, 1993 F-D-PERCIVAL [Fred P.] at 06:12 EST Sanjay, I've noticed that leading spaces (like manual indents) cause margin misalignment when formatting for fully-justified text. Works is only happy when you use the ruler bar to indent. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 14 Tue Nov 09, 1993 D.PHELPS [Doug] at 18:50 EST I am new to Genie and I have a question on AW. My print times are very slow. I have a 1040 ST with 2.5 megs, with a 16 mhz Adspeed and a Canon BJ-200 printer. I print about 12 pages per hour or 1 every five minutes. I have upped the caches to 150 K a piece and that doesn't seem to help. Am I doing something else wrong? Running at 8 mhz, I print about 8 pages an hour. Thanks for any help. Doug Phelps ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 15 Tue Nov 09, 1993 B.REZNIK at 19:42 EST trying to set up AW and Speedo Gdos on a STFM which has been upgraded to 4 megs when i tryto run install speedo, the install program runs until a dialogue box comes up on screen with no instructions and the computer freezes. running install on AW produces similar results I installed the programs using file transfer and AW produces two bombs after several seconds of loading is there a problem with the STFM tos and AW and speedup is there a fix available to get this up and running thanks ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 16 Tue Nov 09, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 20:47 EST Sanjay, I agree with Fred, manual indents inserted in text that has already been formatted with full-justification can _sometimes_ create an unexpected result. I have noticed that when merging data from the database OR when copying data from either the database or spreadsheet there can be unusual formatting. It seems to be related to the length of the field in the database or the width of the row in the spreadsheet. Sometimes the "invisible" tab that accompanies a field in the database will upset things. My recommendations are as follows: Compose the text in ragged right justification (the default). Merge data or copy data from database or spreadsheet to a line all by itself then backspace out any undesired tabs or carriage returns. Scroll the screen past the text you are working on occasionally to force a rewrite. When everything is as you want it _then_ select full-justify or apply any of your Format/Style macros. It seems that those pesky tab delimiters from the database and spreadsheet can sometimes hide in full justified text. They are much easier to find and eradicate in ragged right justification. I have also noticed that when there have been several changes made in one portion of the edit screen _or_ when marginalia have been created _AND_ the cursor is _AFTER_ these points when the document is printed that strange things will sometimes happen. Setting the cursor to the top of the document before printing seems to correct it. I hope this doesn't sound too confusing. I have just come off a job site from hanging conduit for a security camera system and am very tired. If after reading this through 3 or 4 times it still doesn't make sense - give me a "holler" and I will try to re-post in a more coherent style. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 17 Tue Nov 09, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 20:54 EST Doug, I run 8mHz STe's at home and office using HP Deskjet and Laserjet. Print time averages 1.5 to 2 minutes per page of _text_. If I have a GEM metafile of any significant size on the page it does slow down but never worse than about 3 minutes for a complex page of mixed text and graphics. I suspect that the speeds you are experiencing are related to the printer driver. Since I don't have access to a Bubblejet I can't say if your times are typical. There are several others who check into this roundtable who do have Bubblejets. Perhaps one of them can help. You might also post your question in Cat 14 Topic 35 "SpeedoGDOS" for additional feedback from the guys who pop up over there. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 18 Tue Nov 09, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 21:02 EST B.Reznik, You didn't mention which TOS version you are running. Take a look to see if you have TOS 1.0 or 1.2. There were problems with them and AtariWorks - there is a fix on Genie for that one. You also did not mention if you are installing to a hard drive - I assume you are since it is virtually impossible to run Speedo and AW on a floppy only system. The symptom you describe sounds like an "out of space on the disk drive" situation but I seem to recall that a couple of months back several people were reporting similar things. Hopefully they will read your post and contribute some pointers. For now let us know your TOS version (or the latest date showing in your Desktop Info) and what kind of disk drive setup you have. That will help quite a bit in narrowing down the problem. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 19 Tue Nov 09, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:10 EST Doug, AW prints a lot faster than some other apps, but I can tell you that I have seen VERY slow printing times on occasion, depending on what is in the data. If this will cheer you up, folsk in the DOS world have priased GeoWorks for years for the quality of its print drivers, but the downside is their extraordinarily slow speed. I was able to print a page in 40 minutes on my LX80 Epson. No typo; 40 minutes. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 20 Wed Nov 10, 1993 F-D-PERCIVAL [Fred P.] at 06:23 EST Doug, Try a session with Works operating from a 'stripped' system. I've had GDOS printing speed drastically affected by my arrangement of Desk Accessories - up to 10 times slower printing. Perhaps the same thing is happening to you. If so, you can then systematically figure out which program is the problem. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 21 Wed Nov 10, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:42 EST Papa, Your explanation was very clear. I'm impressed with your writing, and plan to get your book. I haven't done a study on it, but I'll bet you write a whole lot better than the average conduit hanger. ;-) I would've thought you were at least a college perfesser. Thanks for all the help! Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 22 Wed Nov 10, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 09:54 EST What should the cache settings be in AW. Mine are set to 146 Kbytes which is how they came. I'm running out of memory fast with the setup I have at the moment and wonder if I could save something here or is this setting optimum? Steve ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 23 Wed Nov 10, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 19:35 EST Al, There's a GeoWorks 2.0 Scrapbook file with graphics of lights and a marking pen, etc. I decided to use that as a test of GeoW V2 and the DJ500C when I got them for my wife - I thought something was busted because nothing happened! I left it as it was since I had to make a run to the airport to see friends off. Came back over an hour later and found that it had printed about 1/2 of the page. Took more than another hour to finish! Must say it did look nice, though. Had an experience with AW/GeoWorks this weekend. I took my wife's rough draft of her microbiology term paper and worked on it in AtariWorks then saved it out in ASCII. Loaded it into GeoWorks and re-discovered how fortunate I am to be using AW. Formatting a document for "pretty-printing" is so_o_o_o much easier in AtariWorks. Doug, Couple of points I forgot in yesterday's post. I am using FP-PRINT in my auto folder which may speed up the printing once AtariWorks and Speedo have the page created in memory. I also neglected to take into account that you are working in a higher printer resolution than I am. Yours is 360 x 360 dpi versus my 300 x 300 dpi. That extra resolution does add significantly to the time it takes to create and dump the page to the printer. Might try running in draft mode when you don't need the extra quality. Ken, Actually the average conduit hanger hangs conduit better than me! I'd rather let him do it, too, but sometimes I get myself locked into doing it. I hope Sanjay found the explanation clear _and_ that it helped him out. I haven't encountered too many quirks in AtariWorks. It has been as rock-solid as I could wish for. The occasional "now how the hell did that get in there?!" creeps into my Calamus and Pagestream stuff, too. Steve, My office setup has the caches configured with 241k for Characters, 161k for Miscellaneous and 0k for bitmap with default points set to 10, 12, 18 and 24 on all fonts. Printer driver is Laserjet. No out of memory errors on this one. The home setup has smaller caches (pretty close to defaults) plus 128k for bitmap with a Deskjet driver and _I_have encountered out of bitmap memory errors there. Both computers have 4mByte RAM so I think the problem is in the cache size difference. If you don't need bitmapped fonts set the bitmap cache to 0 and bump up the other two. If you have less RAM you might try breaking your files up into smaller ones although AtariWorks doesn't seem to create more than one page at a time in memory - but those are BIG pages when it comes to printing. A page size of more than 1 mByte is easy to get if you have any high-res IMG's and a lot of text to deal with. BCNU, 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 24 Thu Nov 11, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 01:40 EST Sanjay, I'm not positive that this is what is happening with your file but AW seems to set the margins for individual lines or paragraphs. If you highlight all of your document and then set the margin your problem might be solved. It's happened to me after I've played with the margins of lines and paragraphs. >I have noticed that when merging data from the database OR when >copying data from either the database or spreadsheet there can be >unusual formatting. It seems to be related to the length of the field >in the database or the width of the row in the spreadsheet. Sometimes >the "invisible" tab that accompanies a field in the database will >upset things. > >Papa I found this out. I created an invoice form for my business and when I try to import data from the spreadsheet the data at the bottom is out of allignment. Extra spaces or tabs like you said. Going through and manually changing the spacing for each invoice is not what I call efficient. Is there something in the settings of the spreadsheet that can avoid this problem. And when you turn off the grids in the spreadsheet and print there is a box around the area of data. WHY? How can I get rid of this or is it something that can't be avoided. It's really annoying. I'm waiting for The Computer Network to get copies of your book. Mark said he had to talk to you first or something to that effect. Hope to see it there soon. Cant wait for the Spreadsheet and Database sections, that's where I really could use some help. Steve ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 25 Thu Nov 11, 1993 S.AGARWAL [SANJAY] at 02:05 EST Thanks all for the info. I will keep the cursor at the begining of the document when printing and see if this makes a difference. Sanjay. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 26 Thu Nov 11, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 02:38 EST Steve, I haven't done too much importing of Spreadsheet data to the WP except as a metafile copy. The leading 1/2" is too much problem to get rid of. Usually I take advantage of the grid to create the appearance of a form. As for the box around the spreadsheet, that only seems to appear when printing the spreadsheet directly. If you turn off the grid and copy to the WP it seems to print OK but with the aforementioned 1/2" space at the left. These are things that Pradip is aware we would like addressed in Ver. 2. Importing the database is a tossup between merging individual fields (if they are not too long) into the body of text or copyi ng them after first setting the width of the field to just fit the data in it. Either way, when importing into a body of text (i.e. embedding the data within the text) poses _potential_ formatting peculiarities. They don't always show up. I don't think the idea of embedding database fields or spreadsheet cells was really considered when the program was being written. What was addressed and which performs very well was the idea of importing fields as a mail-merge function and importing blocks of cells as a structure unto i tself. I try to keep in mind when I run into these things that in a lot or respects I am pushing AtariWorks beyond its anticipated or intended usage. I continue to be impressed by just how well AW does acquit itself in these circumstances and by just how much I can "munge" a document and still be able to make it useable. I can't say that about some other very highly regarded programs I have tried. The other outstanding characteristic of AtariWorks is that it lets me think more about composing my document while simultaneously allowing me to play with its structure "on the fly" than others I have used. I tend to be very undisciplined when composing and depend a great deal on what comes to me - a lot of it is pure serendipity! As I become more familiar with AtariWorks and it's "personality" I find myself thinking more along the lines of what it can do and less along the lines of what I'd rather it could do. It's surprising to find out just how much I can get out of the program by not trying to force it into a preconceived notion of how something should be done. Well ... this ramble has ambled along too long. (How's that for atrocious composition?!) 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 27 Thu Nov 11, 1993 S.WINICK at 07:14 EST Steve (Blackburn), Definitely keep after your local or favorite dealer to carry Papa's Grafik Guide. It should be on the 'must have' list of every AtariWorks owner. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 28 Thu Nov 11, 1993 B.CONNOLLY1 [Bud] at 23:03 EST >I also use Opus but wasn't aware that it could handle Lotus format files. >Perhaps mine is too old a version. The AtariWorks spreadsheet is a >serviceable tool so long as you don't need to exchange data with other >spreadsheets. There are some improvements that we have all been asking > to be included in Version 2 and Lotus/LDW power import is one them. > Papa, The 'registered' version of Opus (2.32) can read and write Lotus 123 Release 1 (WKS) and release 2 (WK1) files. The shareware request was $15 in May '89, but you may want to talk to Doug Harrison (D.S.HARRISON) about it. He is here on GEnie, and there is an Opus topic in this RT. Doug's snail mail address is: Doug Harrison P.O. Box 66236 Baton Rouge, LA 70806-6236 Bud ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 29 Thu Nov 11, 1993 R.BENNETT7 [Rodney] at 23:37 EST Hi D. PHELPS [Doug], Get FPRINT, located somewhere in this conference, or purchase OutBurst, you'll get drastic print speed increases, over 50% increase in printouts! I have the Cannon BJ-200 and the BJ10e speedo drivers works well with it with no problems. Oh, FPRINT (shareware) and OUTBURST (commerical) install in the AUTO folder and 'does something' to increase the output to printer. Hope this helps. Rodney ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 30 Fri Nov 12, 1993 C.SAGGAU [CHUCK] at 00:54 EST I just bought this program and I may be ignorant of something basic, but for some reason when I try to open the Page Setup command the the program crashes. Anybody know what it is? I am running a 4 meg STE. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 31 Fri Nov 12, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 04:35 EST Hi Bud, Thanks for the info on Opus. The version I have is 2.1 which I got on a disk of assorted shareware/freeware/junkware/etc. There were no docs with it and I had a devil of a time getting it to work at first. Finally managed to figure it out. I wasn't aware there was an Opus roundtable on Genie. Thanks again for the info and for Doug's address. Now I can register it and maybe get some docs. Rodney, Do you know if OUTBURST is available for AtariWorks yet. Last I heard it was being written but wasn't out yet. FPPRINT does work with most programs and doesn't seem to interfere with anything I have ever run. Chuck, This is the first time I have heard of a crash upon opening the Page Setup. I thought maybe it might occur if Speedo wasn't loaded and checked that on my 4mB 1040STe system - no crash here. Best bet is to turn off all your desk accessories and reduce the auto folder programs to the bare minimum of Speedo and whatever is necessary for your harddrive. If there are no crashes encountered with a stripped system the problem is bound to be one of your auto folder programs or an accessory. If that seems to be it just add things back in one at a time until AW crashes. The last item is bound to be the culprit. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 32 Fri Nov 12, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 19:46 EST Joe, Got your letter and order today. Your package is on the way. I downloaded AW_94CAL.LZH and tried it here at the office on the laserjet and deskjets. Worked OK on both with one caveat - the global font change using Select All _does_not_work! To change fonts the months must be individually selected. I tried to duplicate the distorted printout you got with the font characters compressed together and the "Fuji" stretched vertically but could not duplicate it. Even resizing the month worked OK. I must say that I am mystified! I see it on your printout but can't duplicate it. I wonder if any of the other folks have had any problem printing out the calendar. Give me a holler if you have. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 33 Fri Nov 12, 1993 D.PHELPS [Doug] at 22:05 EST Rodney, Thanks for the tip. I can't locate FPRINT though. Could it be under another name? ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 34 Fri Nov 12, 1993 C.SAGGAU [CHUCK] at 23:01 EST 'Papa' Thank you for your timely response, however your solution proved fruitless. I have tried all the options that you discussed. I even tried installing it with a stripped down system and moving it to another partition. Perhaps someone else out there has run in to this problem. I am running a 1040 STE with 4 meg, my hard disk uses ICD pro-driver and my system has no internal modifications such as accellerator cards, etc. I have version 1.2 dated 5/6/93, and my computer is running TOS 1.62. Perhaps there is a problem with the disks as the program works fine until I access the Page Setup, then the hard drive kicks in and the system crashes. No bombs, just a complete lock ouout. I have to hit the reset on the back, I can't even reset from the keyboard. I live very close to Atari, and just mailed in my warranty card with a letter. I am open to suggestions. Thanks for your help, I would love to hear about your book, send E-Mail. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 35 Sat Nov 13, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 00:35 EST Chuck, Your setup sounds almost identical to the one at my office. 1040STe with 4mByte RAM and ICD interface. Since your hard drive comes on when you try to access page setup I would say that you have a bad copy of AtariWorks. The hard drive _should_not_ come on when you go to Page Setup. The only other thing I can think of is that the WORKS.INF file may be missing. It should be in the same folder as WORKS.PRG. That kind of error would usually bring up some kind of "file not found" alert box. What you describe doesn't sound like that. Info about the book is in the file AW_BOOK.TXT over in the library. Hope you can get your AtariWorks problem straightened out. It is one heck of a _can_do_ program! 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 36 Sat Nov 13, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 01:04 EST Chuck, I just did a trial run WITHOUT a WORKS.INF file - AtariWorks will boot up and run just fine without it. AW writes a WORKS.INF file when you exit with whatever defaults were present during the run. If the WORKS.INF file is present it loads it in when you start and uses the defaults defined within. If it is not present it just uses a portrait page with 1" margins and whatever font is at the top of your fontlist as the default. I was in error on the hard drive though - the drive DOES come on briefly when you click on Page Setup. I believe it is looking to see what printer driver is specified in the ASSIGN.SYS file. I don't think the absence of ASSIGN.SYS or EXTEND.SYS will cause the kind of problem you describe since AtariWorks will run without SpeedoGDOS (just won't print) and is able to use earlier versions of GDOS. Try this - run without _any_ GDOS or Speedo installed. If the lockup doesn't occur then I would bet that your AW copy is OK. The problem may be a defect in your GDOS or Speedo drivers. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 37 Sat Nov 13, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:20 EST Doug, that's FPPRINT, not FPRINT. (FP is for Frank Pawlowski, and FPPRINT is an early shareware version of OutBurST.) Papa, I use OutBurST (3.1) all the time - wouldn't boot without it - and it does work with AtariWorks/SpeedoGDOS. It doesn't yet have a special custom Speedo driver like it does for PageStream, which would cut down printing time even more, but Frank did mention the possibility a few months ago. I'm sure the current version of OutBurst speeds up Speedo printing somewhat, but I haven't tested to find out how much - like I said, I don't like to boot without OutBurst! gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 38 Sat Nov 13, 1993 D.KAUFMAN [d.a.k.] at 06:38 EST As far as slow printing goes, I think that's the nature of graphic fonts and dot matrix printers. Programs that use your printer's fonts (Word Perfect, etc.) print much faster. I have started using AW with my old Nec P-2200. It prints kind of slow, but the output looks great. d.a.k. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 39 Sat Nov 13, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:17 EST Just out of curiosity, is Pradip located somewhere in India? Does he log onto GEnie from there? Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 40 Sat Nov 13, 1993 C.SAGGAU [CHUCK] at 11:34 EST 'Papa' I tried loading it without any Gdos and the program doesn't load. It just shuts down and goes back to the desktop within seconds. I did notice that when I install it under NeoDesk, that when I finish with the installation, NeoDesk says that the Application was exited with Status 1. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 41 Sat Nov 13, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 14:36 EST Papa, Your right, I think we all spend too much time trying to find things that are wrong with something and not learning to use the power that we have now. AW does have a lot of potential in the form that presently occupies. Most people could use it just the way it is now. It's solid and it does a number of things very well. There are always going to be things we want to do that are beyond reach, thats part of our ever expanding intelect I imagine. Interchanging data between programs like Tracker and AW would be really useful for me but it would also have to be a seamless proceedure if it is to help in the creative process. I don't want to spend all my time learning how to do things. I want to do them :-) Steve ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 42 Sat Nov 13, 1993 JIM.K [Jim~ST Sysop] at 16:43 EST Messages #2-179 have been archived and are in the library-File #30686. ATWORKS7.ARC 10/6/93 to 11/5/93 Jim Kudron 13Nov93 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 43 Sat Nov 13, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 17:17 EST Chuck, What you are encountering is _definitely_not_normal! Since AW does not run when you disable GDOS that there is definitely a bug of some kind in your copy (or maybe just in the installed copy on your hard drive). A while back there were reports of problems when using the install program. If you haven't done so already you might try deleting AW from your drive and then COPY all the files from the distribution disk and try again. I don't think NeoDesk is causing any problem. The "exited with status 1" is a common report and does not indicate a program fault. Ken Van, Pradip is in Sunnyvale. I sent him a copy of "Papa's Grafik Guide to the corporate address and he received it immediately. His last post here acknowledging it seems to be his last appearance. I imagine they are using his talents for other projects and he simply does not have the free time to pop in here. Steve, I agree with you about interchanging data. I am hoping that there will be routine implementation of the Atari Clipboard in the new programs that are written. It would be great to have "publish and subscribe" across the board. It seems to me that AtariWorks is a pre-cursor to that concept. The addition of telecom and graphics editing capabilities would create an environment that would meet 90% of my needs 90% of the time. With good solid links to other programs through the clipboard and the use of Geneva or MultiTOS the percentages would go closer to 99%. gnox, Do you know if the OutBurst patched versions of Calamus and PageStream are compatible with FPPRINT in the auto folder? I have been debating ordering OutBurst now or waiting until the Speedo driver becomes available. Well, gotta go. My wife and I will be whipping her term paper into shape this weekend (Oh, Lordy! More hassles with GeoWorks. If only Intuit would bring out Quicken for the Atari I could get her off the memory munging dinosaur machine.) Also want to try finishing the .RSC translation for MyDraw 1.1. Bye, 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 44 Sat Nov 13, 1993 B.SALDANA1 [BOB S] at 17:34 EST Ken- He's in lives in the Sunnyvale area when not resting in Hawaii. Bob S ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 45 Sun Nov 14, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 00:59 EST Keith, You lucky dog - you have the Zapf Dingbats and I don't. Oh, woe is me! What to do, what to do - guess I'll have to call Compo. Bob, You mean Pradip comes to the Islands ...and he don't visit me? ...and he don't visit Buffalo Bob and the Minz and all the other true non-blue believers? Or may it be that he needs a rest from the likes of us!? 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 46 Sun Nov 14, 1993 C.SAGGAU [CHUCK] at 01:55 EST 'Papa" Thanks for your tips, I re-installed SpeedoGdos and it works much better now. I was able to get AW to load without GDOS resident I just never tried to do it with a cold reset, always did it warm and AW must have picked up something resident from GDOS in the memory. The only thing I have a problem with is after I print, I can't access the page set-up. A big improvement over what I was doing before. I'll play around with the setup some more, perhaps I have one of those early installation programs. A call to Atari might just be the answer. Thanks for your help! ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 47 Sun Nov 14, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 04:08 EST Chuck, Glad to hear you got it going - at least that far. Sounds like a buggy printer driver to me - AW is probably OK. Are you using a printer that you could try another driver with. Some of the 24 pin varieties will emulate one another and the Deskjet and Laserjet drivers are similar enough to crosscheck with each other. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 48 Sun Nov 14, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:08 EST Papa, The OutBurst drivers for PageStream and Calamus are part of the Outburst package and not available separately (and wouldn't work with FPPRINT anyway, I'm sure). By the way there's an OutBurst topic: Cat 5 Top 17. gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 49 Sun Nov 14, 1993 L.BURSTYN [L Burstyn] at 06:18 EST I also got garbage when I printed out the calendar from AW_94CAL.LZH. I have a Panasonic KX-P1624 printer, TOS 2.06, AdSpeed, 4 Megs, STE. PLI Floptical Drive w/ICD Link. Sounds like the same this Joe got on his printout. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 50 Sun Nov 14, 1993 J.ROGOZINSK2 [Rogo] at 08:53 EST > >L.BURSTYN [L Burstyn] in message 49: > >I also got garbage when I printed out the calendar from AW_94CAL.LZH. > >I have a Panasonic KX-P1624 printer, TOS 2.06, AdSpeed, 4 Megs, STE. PLI >Floptical Drive w/ICD Link. > >Sounds like the same this Joe got on his printout. > I got the same results on both my systems, Mega4 St and Mega4 STE both with TOS 2.06. Most of the files uploaded by 'Papa' have printed out with no problems. The only other one that gave me a little trouble was AW_TXTFX (the one with the double size letter at the start od a paragraph), but after a little playing around with it it printed out fine. The problem was the double size letter wasn't quite in the right position. I am going to download AW_94CAL.LZH again and give it another try, let on know thw results. this Joe ;) ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 51 Sun Nov 14, 1993 M.ERSOFF at 10:40 EST Hello Everyone, I was wondering if anyone knows where to get a German dictionary/ thesaurus for Atari Works. I remember seeing something about different language dictionaries when Atari Works was released. If you have any information on different dictionaries (German is the one I need) please let me know. Thanls ........ Mayer ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 52 Sun Nov 14, 1993 J.ROGOZINSK2 [Rogo] at 11:42 EST After downloading AW_94CAL again I still get the same results,with the overlapping printing. Papa, what program (verision) are you using to compress the file? -- Rogo -- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 53 Sun Nov 14, 1993 B.SALDANA1 [BOB S] at 12:08 EST Mike- Only in my mind. I'm voting for a company vactions for him to speed the release of AW updates. When I met him in Sacramento at the SST show he was very nice and told me how AW had its origins showed me all the things that AW does and was interested in questions I had as to its layout. I should of brought a video camera cause you know how developers get going once they start explaining concepts. He had mentioned some improvements he was already working on(in March)but admitted there was always away to make things better.(Such an optimist) Evidently that is why he joined Atari. The only thing I begged for was COLOR and noted that Wordperfect and other progams entertained there users with the potential of their output in COLOR so please why not COLOR. He said it wasn't high on his list(maybe a couple of updates down) but screen redraws for the masses was a concern, maybe a little slower,that was another reason for importing only Gem or Img files the smaller the size the quicker the redraws. And he showed me the difference. That is why I like EasyDraw. I imported a color gem file to wordflair but wonder if it would print that way on a color printer. Bob S ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 54 Sun Nov 14, 1993 G.NORTON [Falcon Systm] at 13:08 EST Has anyone seen or have a SpeedoGDOS driver for the Canon BJ-200. I know you can use the BJ10 driver, but it seems very slow and quirky on the 200. If not is there a program/utility that allows you to create drivers for Speedo? Graham @ Falcon Systems ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 55 Sun Nov 14, 1993 S.AGARWAL [SANJAY] at 15:50 EST Just for the info... The '94 calander file prints fine on my MSTE with TOS 2.06 and SLM804. Sanjay. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 56 Sun Nov 14, 1993 B.SALDANA1 [BOB S] at 16:09 EST G.Norton My Bj 20 has a Buffer Dip Switch from 0 Buffer or 37k buffer. It acts differently with each. Then of course the BJ/IBM mode or Epson LQ 850. Right now my speed is moderate as I've fooled with the switches so much to try and get Wordflair II to print optimumnly, it does and I get all the frames printed better but my speed slowed a little even with Outburst. Maybe that is the advantage of another system that uses one device driver for all programs. I wonder if there is such a program for Atari? Bob S ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 57 Sun Nov 14, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 22:59 EST The calendar printed out just fine for me. I did the global font replace also with no problem. This was on a MSTE 4 TOS 2.06. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 58 Mon Nov 15, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 01:18 EST All, I archive all my uploads with LHARC 2.22 as processed thru the Requestor shell. Archives are normally checked with the verbose command before uploading. Downloads are checked with LHARC 2.22 or DCX_PLUS. I noticed today that I had some problem printing some other files from AtariWorks. The problem went away when I turned Cold Hard Cache OFF. Slows down some disc functions but others seemed to speed up - strange. This is with the Supra drive at home. Nothing like the cached ICD drive at work which accesses everything faster with a 28 ms ST296N as compared to a 17 ms ?? in the Supra. Those of you who are having a problem with the AW_94CAL printout. Does the appearance on screen look normal or is it distorted too? I may just archive all the .GEM files together and upload them. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 59 Mon Nov 15, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 06:27 EST Papa, Speaking of your book, I got the ordering info somewhere here, but forgot where. Is it in the library? Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 60 Mon Nov 15, 1993 PRADIP [Pradip@Works] at 13:34 EST Hi everybody I am still around in Sunnyvale. For some time now, I am busy with other projects. So I am unable to devote much time around here. Chuck \ The problem seems to be a bad printer driver. When you go for a Page Setup, AW looks for the Printer Driver for various printer drivers yoy have installed. So AW seems to get lost when it is looking for the Printer Drivers. I have seen this kind of problems occuring, when some sectors are bad on your harddrive too. Try renaming the current drivers and installing them from the original disks again. This will ensure that the drivers are installed on different part of the hard drive. Mayer German, French, English and other dictionaries for AW are available. Please contact our Customer service Department for more information. Papa You guidence and support in this topic has been excellent. Probably this is one of the other reasons, I have managed to stay away and concentrate on the projects I am working on currently. I really appreciate your efforts and support to this topic and AW. Thanks very much Pradip ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 61 Mon Nov 15, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 14:16 EST Ken, The ordering info is in the file AW_BOOK.TXT in the library or just send $16.95 plus $2.00 S/H ($18.95 total) to: Papa's Grafik Press 1228 N. School Street Honolulu, HI 96817 The book will be forward to you within 2 working days via Priority Mail. Pradip, Great to see you pop in here again. I'm happy you were able to verify Chuck's problem. Thank you very much for the compliment. I think AtariWorks is a MAJOR contributor to Atari's future success. I want to see as many people as possible using it, exploring its capabilities and sharing their templates as possible. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 62 Mon Nov 15, 1993 C.SAGGAU [CHUCK] at 21:50 EST All, Thanks for your help. I have now completely solved the problem. I re- installed SPEEDO, and stopped running Warp 9 (I need the upgrade to 3.80, I guess). Everything is working seamlessly and flawlessly. Thanks Again. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 63 Tue Nov 16, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 00:43 EST When importing text from Steno, the lines of text are shorter than they should be. The text seems to go about half way and then wraps to the next line. I tried highlighting the text block and hitting CTL-M but the program crashes with something like " exited with -1 " . This is happening under Geneva. It works fine without Geneva though. Anyone have a suggestion? Papa, I took a look at your labels for video cassettes. What type of labels do I need to send through a SLM 605? I dont want the things melting inside the printer. Are they safe to use? Steve Blackburn ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 64 Tue Nov 16, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:23 EST Chuck, Aha! The old Warp9 bug - should have thought of that! Glad you got it fixed! Steve, I seem to remember some discussion re [Ctrl]-M causing crashes when running AtariWorks under Geneva. I don't believe that one has been resolved. I like working under Geneva but tend to stay out of it when working on my AtariWorks stuff. I use a lot of screen shots and want them to look like what everyone else will see. It may be that AtariWorks is interpreting the word wrap in Steno as a command to drop down a line. Try loading the file in Steno and resetting the width of the line. As far as the VCR labels go - there was no specific label paper for that one. Keith Brooks uploaded a set of VCR and audio label templates that are designed to work with Avery labels. Mine was just a template to print on regular paper then stick 'em on the cassette with old chewin' gum or whatever. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 65 Tue Nov 16, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:29 EST Steve, Almost forgot - you can find Keith's template by doing a search for K.BROOKS1 in the library - he has several good AtariWorks templates over there. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 66 Tue Nov 16, 1993 J.ROGOZINSK2 [Rogo] at 18:06 EST > The calendar printed out just fine for me. I did the global font > replace also with no problem. This was on a MSTE 4 TOS 2.06. > I have tried it on a MSTE $ TOS 2.06 on a HP Deskjet 500C and a Mega ST 4 with Tos 2.05 on a Star NX1000 with the same distored result. The Calandar displays fine on the screen in mono and color. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 67 Tue Nov 16, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 20:39 EST Chuck, The only problem with Warp 9 is when you go to print something out from AW. All you have to do is turn off the screen acceleration before you print and then turn it back on when you are done. The upgrade to Warp 9 fixes this problem. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 68 Tue Nov 16, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 22:04 EST Rogo, I will try to get the AW_94CAL .GEM graphics archived and upload them before the weekend begins. Try importing them and printing. If it still comes out distorted there may be something in the the way MyDraw writes the GEMs or there may be an incompatibility with some auto folder program or accessory. It would be nice to get more feedback on this - there have been 147 downloads to date and only 4 have commented. Two having distorted printout and two having good printout. Watch for the file this weekend - probably call it MD_94CAL.LZH. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 69 Wed Nov 17, 1993 C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --] at 07:25 EST Pradip, Al, et al.: Lest anyone get the impression that the other "Chuck's" problems were the same as mine, I feel the need to clarify my situation... I'm running AW and Speedo on a 4meg MegaSTE, TOS 2.06, under Geneva, in mono. The only other auto program resident is the DataLite2 driver, as AW is located on my D partition, which is compressed with DataLite. If I run AW and access the "page setup" dialog _at all_, I get two bombs WHEN I _EXIT_ ATARI WORKS, not when I access page setup, as seems to be the other Chuck's case. Dan Wilga has verified this in the Geneva topic, and believes it is due to a bug in SpeedoGDOS. This situation occurs EVERY TIME I exit AW if I have accessed the page setup dialog. It doesn't matter which ACCs or PRGs I boot with, except for those mentioned above. It DOESN'T occur when I run AW without Geneva, which is why I brought it to Dan's attention. However, I don't WANT to run AW without Geneva - so far, the only program I use that absolutely precludes the use of Geneva is - not too surprisingly - Cubase. Otherwise, I have had NO other problems with AW - I can use the functions in the page setup dialog, I just have to plan on rebootin' if I want to keep on computin' (8^}) after exiting AW. I hope Atari fixes SpeedoGDOS soon, if it is indeed the responsible party. Thanks for listening... -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 70 Wed Nov 17, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:59 EST Pradip, I hope your present projects include file transfer compatibility for spreadsheets and the stuff the gang here has suggested. All, A young woman was referred to me as an Atari owner because she had been given a Mega ST (memory yet uncertain) with hard drive. I told her about AW, but note in the ads that 2 meg RAM is recommended. A clerk at my dealer's seemed not to know much about Atari stuff when I called, but said 4 meg is needed for full capability. True? She works with IBMs, so is computer literate. I'm giving her a bunch of PD and shareware software to get her started. She questions Atari's viability, never having heard much about it, and is hesitant to invest much in software, but I'd like her to see what her machine can do. The hard drive had a lot of programs on it, but it was messed up. She was _very_ impressed with ICD's support, although she had to end up reformatting. Sorry for the topic drift. I wanted to ask about AW, but also see if anyone has any suggestions for must-have PD stuff for a newcomer. Chuck, Yes, if you're using an earlier version of Warp 9 with Speedo you need to upgrade. Steve, Avery makes labels for dry toner office copiers that work fine with my SLM804. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 71 Wed Nov 17, 1993 PRADIP [Pradip@Works] at 13:09 EST Ken Van AW will surely run on a 2M machine. AW requires about 625K to run. Then you need some cache for SpeedoGDOS. This cache will depend upon how many fonts you are using etc. Rest I think is preety clear. Pradip ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 72 Wed Nov 17, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 20:21 EST Chuck, I want to get on the bandwagon for AW and Geneva. I have recently purchased Geneva, and calling the page setup either bombs, shows me no printer drivers, or says "not enough memory to load assign.sys". With 20 megs on board (4/ST,16/TT), I don't think this is the problem. I also experience 2 or 4 bombs when exiting. Funny thing, though. I'm not totally sure this was going on right after I installed Geneva, but some days after. If there are any "work arounds", please feel free to jump in. Thanks, Tom ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 73 Wed Nov 17, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 20:55 EST Chuck & Tom, I did some checks today re AtariWorks/Geneva and the Page Setup bombs. Results - AtariWorks under Geneva after accessing Page Setup then exiting program bombs out - Geneva reports: FATAL ERROR IN GENEVA - GEMDOS Called Recursively. - MyDraw under Geneva after printing a page bombs and Geneva gives the same report. Now for the interesting part - the same thing happens when running under G- Plus+ instead of SpeedoGDOS. This indicates to my feeble brain that Speedo is not the culprit unless the Codeheads and Bitstream used the same code somewhere. I would like to have checked some other programs but at present the only other one I have that _positively_ works under both Speedo and G-Plus+ is Wordflair and that is not on my office computer at present. Both AtariWorks and MyDraw function normally when running from the Atari Desktop, NeoDesk or TeraDesk. This is on a 1040STe w/4mByte RAM and my usual set of auto prgs and acc's. Ken Van, Make sure to put Teradesk 1.32 or 1.36 on the young lady's list. Get some nice icons for her too. The TOS 2.06 Newdesk icons work with Teradesk. Download Al Fasoldt's "Secrets of Teradesk" also. If she is into graphics get MyDraw ver 1.10 for vector and PAD_24 for bitmap. Oh, yes - Teradesk needs a disk formatter - I like Diamond Format. For an ASCII text editor something like Edith or Alice would be good (and gender friendly too!). Storm would make a nice telecom choice. Not all of these are PD - most are shareware but well worth the price. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 74 Wed Nov 17, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 23:35 EST Papa, I downloaded the CAL file, but, as usual, was unable to print. I always get an insufficient memory message. It initializes the printer, but then gives me that. I installed the printer with the ACC, so it's there. I have a Mega STE/4, and use the SLM804. Maybe I need to adjust a cache or remove some ACCs or AUTO programs. I can't even print a 4-line file. I'll try to print CAL if I can get it to print anything. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 75 Thu Nov 18, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 01:19 EST Ken Van, Watch for the .GEM version of the calendar. I will try to post it before the weekend under the name MD_94CAL.LZH. It may be that under certain conditions it won't print. In the meantime try copying one of the months to a separate file and see if that will print. All, In my earlier post today I mentioned that I would check WordFlair II with regard to the Geneva/AtariWorks bombout that Chuck Binckley reported. Results - Identical to that obtained with AtariWorks and with MyDraw. WordFlair bombs after printing with either Speedo or G-Plus+ but only when running under Geneva. My conclusion as a non-expert is that either Geneva has a compatibility problem OR there is a problem with the coding that is required to allow a program to use outline fonts that only shows when running under Geneva. If my suspicions are correct we can expect to see the same problem crop up with Silhouette Colortrace and Geneva. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 76 Thu Nov 18, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 20:54 EST Papa, Not familiar with Teradesk. I think she has TOS 1.4. Does it work with that? I'll look into the programs you mentioned. Thanks. Hope to get my book order out tomorrow (Thurs). Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 77 Thu Nov 18, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 21:18 EST Ken Van, Teradesk is a drag and drop environment similar to NeoDesk and the Atari NewDesk in TOS 2.06 and up. Teradesk works very well with TOS 1.04. Make sure your friend gets AtariWorks & Speedo if she doesn't already have them. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 78 Thu Nov 18, 1993 B.REZNIK at 23:07 EST we could not get the install prgs to load on a 4 meg STFM i do not know wh at the tos is but the copyrite is 1986, 1987 any sugestions ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 79 Thu Nov 18, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 23:31 EST Papa, I mailed my order today. I haven't played with Works, lately, but nothing would print yesterday. I thought it had printed previously. I haven't gotten into using it much, yet. Hard to break old habits, and I have projects going on my other word processors that I want to keep there. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 80 Fri Nov 19, 1993 L.CHANDLER [LINDA] at 00:18 EST Chuck,Chuck and Tom, I don't know if you recall a few months back, I was describing the same problem, ie. two bombs on exit and a strong association with the page setup menu. It was suggested that I reinstall AW and Speedo, which I did several dozen times to no avail. So I sympathize with your joint frustration. I tried to suggest that AW had a "Path" problem and was told such was imposible. So I shut up. Then one day I noticed, while trying to get XBoot to work, that AW would only return (ie. RETURN, on exit) \works instead of C:\Works. I used the editor and tuped in the complete path for AW and Speedo in XBoot and never had the problem again, with or without XBoot. The other thing that led me to the conclusion that AW had some kind of a path problem is that XBoot kept eating my inf and assign sys files. Have either of you noticed this problem? Once I was able to get AW to return a proper path when exiting (for saving and such which is sometimes automatic), my inf files and assign sys files remained uneaten from then on, (I had a spare on disc A which I would load four or five times a day) I was SOOOooo mad. BTW. The page set up thingie requires the program to look for some kind of inf file does it not? Lots of luck. Just wanted you to know that I sympathize with your plite. I think this problem started when I transferred AW from the Falcon back to my MegaSTe for printing, not more than a few days later. Interesting, huh? Linda ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 81 Fri Nov 19, 1993 R.HERMOSO [RAF] at 04:07 EST What are some programs that use printer fonts, such as WP for the PC? I am looking to purchase a new word processor (I currently have Word Writer) and am lloking for one that will access the internal fonts of a Deskjet. Also, how is Speedo GDOS loaded? Is it an auto file? Are their assign.sys files to be loaded every time at bootup. i have 4 megs but want to preserve as much of it as possible. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 82 Fri Nov 19, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 05:03 EST B.Reznik, Sounds like you have an older TOS, possibly 1.02. This may sound like a strange question but do you know if your floppy disk is single or doublesided? If you're not sure click on the drive then Info under the File menu on your desktop. If it reports around 360k total disk capacity then you have a singlesided drive and will need to upgrade to doublesided in order to install AtariWorks. Most of the older STFM's were singlesided but I can't imagine anyone upgrading to 4mByte RAM without also upgrading to doublesided drives. Ken Van, Looking forward to your order. As far as printing goes - was Speedo loaded? AtariWorks will not print unless Speedo or some other GDOS is in memory. Linda, Do you have AtariWorks installed in its own folder or just in the root of your C: drive? AW normally installs to a folder. When you access Page Setup AtariWorks looks in the GEMSYS folder to get information about the printer driver - whoops! - that should be ASSIGN.SYS. Anyway, that's why the disk drive comes on. I also use XBOOT and found that I had to set up a separate folder for all my ASSIGN.SYS files in order to keep them from being munged. Different programs with different ASSIGN.SYS files do not get along together happily unless you use something like XBOOT or for the older bitmap fonts GPLUS+. RAF, SpeedoGDOS is the operating system extension that permits the use of high quality outline font technology. It is not necessary for programs such as Word Writer. Word Writer will permit you to embed printer codes giving access to the various fonts built into your printer. I haven't used WW in quite a long time but as I remember it the code was P 27,nn,nn. The "nn's" refer to the command codes in your printer manual. I think the "P" had to be preceded by some command also. If you are looking for another word processor with higher quality printing I would strongly suggest AtariWorks since it not only gives you a superb word processor but also an easy to use database and spreadsheet. AtariWorks and Speedo go for about $130 or less at some dealers. With 4mByte memory you will very rarely run into memory problems. Ataris have always managed memory very well and Atari programs do not tend to be as bloated and inefficient as MS-DOS programs seem to be. PC's are inherently inefficent users of memory since IBM in their infinite wisdom did not foresee that anyone would ever want more than 640k of RAM! To answer your question more specifically, Speedo is an auto folder program which is loaded at bootup. It looks in the root of your boot disk for ASSIGN.SYS which is typically less than 1K long to find out which screen and printer drivers to use. Speedo does not load in the fonts until they are actually used. When they are loaded they go into a cache which you can size to your liking. When the cache fills any fonts in it that are not currently being used will be flushed out to make room for new ones. I run fairly large caches and occasionally have as many as 5 or 6 files open in separate windows in AtariWorks with absolutely NO memory problems in a 4mByte 1040STe. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 83 Fri Nov 19, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:00 EST Linda, AtariWorks DOES have a path problem, which Charles Johnson explained a while back as follows: > When AtariWorks is launched, it uses the AES shel_read() call to > determine where WORKS.PRG resides, i.e. the current drive and folder. > This is where the problem lies, because shel_read() does not work the > same way in all versions of TOS! In fact, if AtariWorks is run under > TOS 1.0, it behaves _exactly_ the same as when run from HotWire. > We've tested AtariWorks with TOS 1.0 and confirmed this. > > So some of the people reporting this problem may not be HotWire > users at all, but rather people who haven't upgraded their TOS. TOS > 1.0 users will have this problem with AtariWorks, even with nothing > else installed in their systems. I think TOS 1.2 also has this problem. Hotwire has been patched to work around it, but if you don't use Hotwire and have TOS < 1.4 there's no fix yet. gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 84 Fri Nov 19, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 06:23 EST Thanks, Papa. I'll look for TeraDesk. I'm checking into her RAM before pushing AW and Speedo. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 85 Fri Nov 19, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:14 EST Papa, Yeah. Speedo was loaded. The printer initiated but gave an out-of-memory message, unable to load driver. I'll try rebooting and printing another file. I thought sure it worked before. I wonder if trying to print your CAL file could have munged up the memory so even a short file wouldn't print. I found TeraDesk and Al's file on it, and will download it when I do my Pass 2. I see the latest is only about 2 weeks old. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 86 Fri Nov 19, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:46 EST Ken Van, TeraDesk works with TOS 1.0 on up. Among all the freeware (yes, freeware) replacement desktops, it is clearly the best. Check my Secrets of TeraDesk, too. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 87 Fri Nov 19, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 10:59 EST RAF, Lots of folks insist on Calligrapher for all of their word processing. If you ask in the Calligrapher topic (31?) in Cat 32, I'm sure they'll be happy to tell you about it. John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 88 Fri Nov 19, 1993 J.ROGOZINSK2 [Rogo] at 19:03 EST >M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] > >Rogo, > >I will try to get the AW_94CAL .GEM graphics archived and upload them >before the weekend begins. Try importing them and printing. If it >still comes out distorted there may be something in the the way MyDraw >writes the GEMs or > Thanks for the extra work, I'll be watching for the file and let you know the results. >there may be an incompatibility with some auto >folder program or accessory. It would be nice to get more feedback on >this - there have been 147 downloads to date and only 4 have >commented. Two having distorted printout and two having good printout. > The only accs are: MultiDesk Deluxe v 3.4a Warp 9 CP Control Panel v 1.0 Auto prgs are: CASHE090 CODEKEYS DESKMG33 FOLDR100 LGSELECT SERFX20 SPDGDOS WARP9_ST This is the set up on both machines with TOS 2.06. The Mega 4 ST with a Star NX 1000 printer and a Mega 4 STE with a HD Deskjet 500C. Sorry it took so long to get back to you but I've been very busy lately and am not able to get to the machines as often as I'd like. -- Rogo -- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 89 Fri Nov 19, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 20:23 EST Linda, Well, thanks for the info. I never really experienced the problem until I got Geneva. I don't think it's Geneva, however, more testing is in order. I don't like to make any kind of judgements until I can *consistently* recreate the problem. For example, today I ran AW with no problem. So I'll keep trying. Also, 'Papa', Two points: 1. Your test of AW the other day had one common thread running through it - GDOS!!! Keep testing, I contend something else besides Geneva and/or NeoDesk at this point because my problem has not occurred today. 2. About memory... > With 4mByte memory you will very rarely run into memory problems. Ataris have > always managed memory very well and Atari programs do not tend to be as > bloated and inefficient as MS-DOS programs seem to be. PC's are inherently > inefficent users of memory since IBM in their infinite wisdom did not foresee > that anyone would ever want more than 640k of RAM! Then how do you explain TT RAM? It's nearly the same concept as extended or expanded memory (don't remember which) for the IBM. Atari programs never hit the 4 meg limit because up until the TT, no programs took advantage of it because there was no need. Furthermore, the architecture of the ST's could only handle 4 megs maximum, and even then cannot be cranked up past 8 Mhz. Beyond this speed, and you trip over video access and crash the system. My point here is that IBM and Atari suffer from the same so-called "lack of infinite wisdom", even though Atari's wisdom was about 3.5 megs greater! Tom ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 90 Sat Nov 20, 1993 T.HARRIS1 [SLICE] at 00:45 EST RAF If what you want is to use the internal font set on the DeskJet, stick with the Word Writer or get a line editor. To put it another way: using Works without Speedo GDOS is like buying a very fast sport car and filling up with the cheapest fuel you can find. If you must use the internal font set of the deskjet get a old copy of word perfect 4.1 ST. P.S. I dump my of WP 4.1 when I got works. WP 4.1 output smells. Speedo is an auto program that is place into the auto folder. Yes you load the assign.sys but this is not the same old GDOS. Fonts adjust to the size you need. Frankly this what should had been done in the first place. As far as I can see with my system I only add 150K when Speedo is running. Of course I will be larger as more fonts are used. You have more than enough memory to use the Works. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 91 Sat Nov 20, 1993 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 02:42 EST Chuck, Have you tried MyDraw yet? A fantastic drawing program, and guess what? It exhibits _the same_ 'two bombs upon exit' that AW does! Hmmm, I wonder what the common denominator is? What I have done is created a bunch of page templates that I commonly use, then load them instead of accessing the Page Setup menu (sure, it bombs on me the time I make them, but after that...) No way, no how will I _ever_ give up Geneva. I'm thinking of getting a bumper sticker, a la the NRAs "Pry from my cold dead fingers", describing how I feel about Geneva! John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 92 Sat Nov 20, 1993 R.BEATTY3 [Buffalo Bob] at 05:08 EST 'Papa', I've not seen the problem you described with WordFlair II and the Geneva / Speedo combination. I'm using a TT, which may invalidate my observation in this discussion - but from what I've seen, Speedo does wonders for WFII. 'Course, if columns show up the next revision of Atari Works I'll be hard- pressed to use any other WP. Footnotes & endnotes would be nice, too... Buffalo Bob Sharing an island with 'Papa' Somewhere in the Pacific ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 93 Sat Nov 20, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:09 EST Tom, The TT's TT RAM is in no way, none whatsoever, comparable to the IBM world's concept of expanded or extended memory. There is no relationship at all. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 94 Sat Nov 20, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 10:45 EST Al, Granted, in some respects. Without DOS's limitation of 640K, extended memory would be seamless (whether that has changed since DOS 6.0 I don't know). For expanded memory, a software package that meets the LIM EMS 4.0 spec allows the PC to address up top 32 megs of memory. For the Atari, 4 megs was the max in Atari's design, although the actual processor was capable of 16 megs. The 68030 is capable of addressing up to 4 gigs of ram, but the TT structure has been set up to handle 10 megs of ST ram and 16 megs of TT ram. So, whereas the PC's basis of limitation seems to be it's operating system, the Atari's was based on hardware design and the processor chip. So in *concept* of TT ram vs. IBM expanded/extended memory, there is little relationship. In questioning Mike's statements, I was adressing memory (no pun intended). I apologize if I inferred or even suggested the two were equal. And i certainly don't mind admitting my mistakes. However, my contention to Mike Hebert is that both the IBM and Atari worlds suffered from a similar dilemma, and Atari wasn't "more perfect" in it's long-term assessment of memory needs. So much for that..gotta watch the topic cops... If you want to continue this, let's go e-mail. I enjoy your input. Tom ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 95 Sat Nov 20, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 13:20 EST Tom, >So much for that..gotta watch the topic cops... I'm watching you [grin]! ~~Brian..Written on Saturday 20 November 1993 at 02:11 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 96 Sat Nov 20, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 14:55 EST Rogo, I ran into two things recently that may be related to what is affecting the AW_94CAL print problems that some people have been happening. 1. I thought I had dropped Cold Hard Cache out of my auto folder on the home system with Supra drive. Somehow it crept back in and I was getting erratic printing of AW documents (they had lines of "nonsense" characters in random locations). Dumping CHC out of the auto folder solved that one. 2. In attempting to print one of the calendar .GEM's direct from MyDraw I got a GDOS error - not enough memory for the scratch buffer. I increased my Character and Misc. Caches to 256k each and that problem went away. In looking at your auto program list I would suggest renaming all except FOLDR100 and WARP9_ST to .PRX and rebooting. If the printout is OK then the problem is one of the auto prgs. Add them back in one at a time until you find the one that causes the problem. Ken Van, If AtariWorks doesn't print and Speedo is loaded check your ASSIGN.SYS file to make sure 31 META.SYS is there and that the printer driver is in also. Check your cache sizes with OUTLINE.ACC or PRG and make sure your caches are there. Beyond that you may have a munged printer driver and need to reload it from your original Speedo disks. If that is the case rename the one on your harddrive to something else then load from floppy to ensure that the driver gets written to "fresh" space on your HD (per Pradip's suggestion). Tom, The common thread running through my tests was GDOS just as you said. What I was trying to determine was if the problem is some- thing in Speedo or occured with other versions of GDOS also. I think I was pretty clear in saying that I don't know if the bug is in Geneva or in the way that programs with outline font capability interact with Geneva. I haven't had time to check non-outline font capable programs under GDOS or G_PLUS+ with Geneva yet. This is another one of the projects I hope to do this weekend - if I can find enough weekend to do it! I do want to clarify that I am not knocking Geneva - I think it is a fantastic extension to the Atari system. Dan has a reputation as a first class programmer and I am sure that the causes and cures will identified. I would like to say that no matter how good a programmer is or how many beta testers he hathe user community _will_find_bugs_ in any new program. There is nothing better for finding bugs in programs than to put the programs in the hands of people who _are_not_looking_ for bugs! My comments re IBM and Atari memory were based not only on the well known DOS 640k barrier but on the way the two systems handle memory when comparably equipped. My 4mByte STE's don't give me memory related problems whereas my wife's 386-33 with 4mByte reports problems with memory when using GeoWorks, Windoze or other programs that attempt to use expanded memory. Most of the time these can be dealt with gracefully but they are a source of annoyance _that_does_not_occur_ in my Atari systems. My other gripes with DOS systems are the unconscionable size of their programs and their inefficiency. My 8mHz Ataris typically do their tasks faster than my wife's 33mHz PC. This shows up most dramatically in graphics or desktop publishing applications. Enough off topic! gnox, Thanks for bringing up the PATH problem again. I think there is some deja-vu showing. I had forgotten about that particular item. Might be an idea for some enterprising soul to compile the bug reports, workarounds, etc from the AtariWorks archives and post them in the library. Buffalo Bob, Hmmm, I wonder if the problem is TOS related. Have you tried the Geneva/AtariWorks bomb-out after accessing Page Setup or the MyDraw bombs after printing? Might be interesting to find out if the phenomenon only occurs on STs/STEs or on all Ataris. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 97 Sat Nov 20, 1993 R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH] at 17:26 EST I see the same problem with bombs on exit when using Geneva. This has also happened with Calamus, which does not use Spedo, but I think Spedo was installed at the time. Also, I noticed that when trying to print with manual paper feed on the SLM804, I have to pull the paper drawer out or else it will try to feed both my manually fed sheet and a sheet from the paper drawer. Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug? I have been using AW more and more lately and I am really growing to like it a lot, but it is still pretty obvious it is a version 1 program. I sure hope an update is in the works. RandyH ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 98 Sat Nov 20, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 19:36 EST This is slightly off topic (ok, WAY off topic), but this is the only place I've seen MyDraw mentioned. Is there any way to get it to print on an SLM- 804? I called up the 'printer' feature and it seemed to be mostly dot matrix related.... I'd hate to give up that fast 300 x 300 for a LaserBrain driven 180 x 180 epson driver. Thanks Gregg PS: Atariworks seems really great ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 99 Sat Nov 20, 1993 THOMPSON2 [STYVWERX] at 20:50 EST I've got the Bomb when exiting Works thing, too, but my solution is never to exit. Especially at work, where the TT has 20 megs, with Geneva, I never have to. I ultimately bomb through some other combination of programs, and Geneva, (Usually involving the use of DynaCadd), but other than that, I just switch tasks. On the home TT, I don't have as much ram, and since I have a "Run Works" command in my Geneva "gem.inf" set up, I just exit before loading any files, and it doesn't crash. Question for the programming "brains" out there - When Works autoloads from my gem.inf,(with Geneva) on the home TT, I don't get the introductory open, new, cancel dialog box with the WP DB SS options. I like this set up, but at work I can't figure out how to get the same effect. Any thoughts? ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 100 Sat Nov 20, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 23:08 EST Al, I've already downloaded TD and SoTD. Thanks. John E., Ha ha! And you just happen to know a lot of those folks personally. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 101 Sun Nov 21, 1993 D.FREELAND [SAXMAN] at 00:04 EST I have one for you: I booted up my Falcon (14MB TOS 4.04) and loaded AW and then typed a document. After I saved the document, I was showing someone and example of modifying line spacing via point size under the format menu. After I messed around with this, I closed the document which was Not saved after I messed with the line spacing but I was not exiting AW which was loaded under MTOS, I was just closing the window. When I chose the abandon option, I got a message saying BUS ERROR which I believe is the same as 2 bombs. AW was unloaded and I was returned to the desktop. Even though it was graceful, it was still a crash. I have not yet repeated this but I will see if I can get it to repeat. I did not run anything prior to AW and I have the normal assortment of ACC's and Auto PRG's. This leads me to believe that the problem may not be with Geneva but with AW. I don't even own Geneva (no flames) and I had this problem. Any thoughts Pradip??? David ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 102 Sun Nov 21, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 00:40 EST Randy, I think you're supposed to pull the tray out when you do a manual feed. That's the way I've always done it, and it works fine. Papa, I had no META.SYS line. When I added it, I could print a small file, but a larger one gave me an out-of-memory message. Maybe my caches need help. I had 150, 150, and 0. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 103 Sun Nov 21, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 04:38 EST Ken Van, Your caches at 150, 150, 0 should work for documents of up to several pages. AtariWorks only builds one page at a time in memory before dumping it to the printer as a bitmap graphic. A typical page full of text be as much as 500kBytes depending on fontsize. I currently have my caches set at 256, 256, 0 but that was only to handle the apparently larger cache requirements that MyDraw has. Was the system reporting insufficient memory or was Speedo reporting insufficient space for it's scratch buffer? Gregg, MyDraw will drive any printer you have configured in Speedo or GDOS. There is no printer driver or configuration in MyDraw since that is strictly a function of whatever version of GDOS you are using. Note the cache sizes I am using for Speedo. MyDraw seems to want a hefty chunk of RAM for its caches. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 104 Sun Nov 21, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:38 EST Tom, No. Let's handle these things one at a time. DOS addresses 1 meg, not 640K. The area between 640K and 1 meg is populated with an assortment of things, including blank memory, ROM and video memory. (I realize you know about this, but others reading our posts probably don't.) Because IBM and Intel decided to make everything since '80 backward-compatible (the single worst decision in the PC world), all versions of DOS stick to the same mistake, and can't address any memory past 1 meg. (Actually, the current limit for DOS is 1 meg plus 64K minus 16 bytes, having to do with a quirk in the address-line scheme.) The ST normally can address only 4 megabytes. The TT can address 10 megabytes of ST RAM and many gigs (billions of bytes) of TT RAM. The TT is not limited in any physical way to addressing 16 megs; all you do is slip in a different TT RAM board. Mine is on order. As for expanded memory, it operates on PCs through a "window" in regular RAM in which the memory in that area is constantly remapped to memory that is above 1 meg. Very, very few normal applications can use it. Extended memory is linear, and Windows uses it just fine. This comes about through the design of the '386 and '486 processors. But very few DOS apps make use of extended memory. The ST and TT memory mapping is totally linear. I can keep loading applications and desk accessories into my ST or TT without fear that I am exceeding some sort of 1980 limit, and without worrying about which memory manager is handling which odd block of stolen video-display memory. The scheme used by PCs is a testament to Mungology and to utter craziness. The fact that there are millions of PC users and only hundreds of thousands of ST and TT users simply indicates that the operating principle of the lowest common denominator once again is at work in our society. Judging from the letters I get each time I mention the way Macs, Amigas and STs handle memory, a great proportion of those PC users would not have blundered into the world of Upper Memory Blocks and High Memory Areas if they had known there was a better way. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 105 Sun Nov 21, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 12:04 EST STYVWERX, That's interesting. When Works is run from a command line, so to speak (from Geneva's GEM.CNF) it opens up immediately? Are you specifying a data file, like this: run c:\thisdir\works.prg myfile.stw ? I know Works does very well as an installed app, so that clicking on an STW file opens works without the dialog, too. Papa, I suspect the crashing comes not from Works or from Geneva or from MTOS but from Speedo. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 106 Sun Nov 21, 1993 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 12:20 EST Al, >> The ST and TT memory mapping is totally linear... That's not really true. In a TT, "fast" RAM is separated from normal "ST RAM" by the operating system and hardware registers; TT RAM is definitely not contiguous with ST RAM. You can't have allocated blocks of memory that cross ST/TT RAM boundaries for that reason. Admittedly, this is not as complex a situation as that faced by PC users (with "extended" and "expanded" RAM), but the TT's scheme certainly has its own problems and limitations -- it's far from ideal, in my opinion. As for Macintosh memory management, I _wish_ the ST/TT/Falcon had a system as beautiful and logical as the Mac's. TOS's memory management is pure stone age, and is one of the biggest obstacles standing in the way of a useable multitasking system. - Charles @ CodeHead Tech ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 107 Sun Nov 21, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 12:30 EST Al, Do I just do a search for icons, or are there recommended files? Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 108 Sun Nov 21, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 13:02 EST Al, Actually the 1 meg limit was initially imposed by the 8088. It could only address 1 meg! (Same with th 68008, Motorola's answer to the 8088. Thak goodness it never became popular!) To a certain extent Atari fell into the same pit, but at 16 megs instead on 1. The 68000 could only address 16 megs, so Atari put the rom and i/o devices in the top 2 megs. Gee, I can remember expanding CP/M machines to 64k (and an Atari 400 to 32k) and wondering what I was going to do with all that ram. Now I'm trying to figure out how to add ram to my 4 meg MSTe. Auto prgs, caches and accs can sure take a chunk out of it quickly. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 10:48 AM Mountain Time Sunday, November 21, 1993 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 109 Sun Nov 21, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 13:51 EST Best is supposed to get a RAM upgrade for the MSTE. I talked to him at Glendale and he said it was overdue. A 12 meg MSTE is.... excuse me I have to go take a cold shower. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 110 Sun Nov 21, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 14:18 EST Gee Toto I guess I am not sure where I am? This is the AW topic? Why so much DOSing around here? (This is a rhetorical question.) ~~Brian..Written on Sunday 21 November 1993 at 02:35 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 111 Sun Nov 21, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 15:11 EST Al, If the problem with AtariWorks/Geneva crashing is due to Speedo how come I also get the crashing if I use G-Plus+? The crash occurs after printing in MyDraw and WFlair II also. The message is always the same - recursive call to GEMDOS. Still haven't had a chance to dig out my old GDOS and GDOS 1.1 to try them or to see if the phenomenon is limited only to PRGs that have Speedo compatibility. I will post results when I have them. Let's see now - what other off the wall DOS vs TOS vs MAC comment can I make to rile the gang up again? 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 112 Sun Nov 21, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 15:41 EST Al, I just finished running a test of the only other Speedo compatible program I have - the demo of Easy Text Pro. Under Geneva it ran and printed with SpeedoGDOS without a hitch. No exit bombs or "recursive calls to GEMDOS". One difference that I know of between EZT_PRO and MyDraw is that EZT is written in assembler whereas MyDraw is compiled C (Borland compiler I believe). I don't know what AtariWorks or WFlair II were written in. This brings in another possibility to further obfuscate the issue - could we be seeing a compiler introduced bug that may be totally unrelated to the coding of Geneva or the crashing PRG's? A test run of Silhouette 1.37 with G-Plus+ under Geneva produced an "undefined error #1" report after printing and exiting but no crash. Just a graceful error report and return to Geneva. Both tests were run with my usual conglomeration of ACC's and auto PRG's but no desktop. They were run straight out of Geneva's file selector. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 113 Sun Nov 21, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 20:02 EST Papa, They exact message is... GDOS cannot load the printer driver. There may not be enough memory to load it. I'm using a Mega STE4. The SLM804 may be using too much memory. Maybe I should eliminate some memory overhead and try it. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 114 Sun Nov 21, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 21:54 EST Al, I agree. Working with memory in IBM is a pain, at least in terms of setting up a config.sys and whatnot. And it is far easier to deal with on an ST/TT than on the PC. Thanks for making the 1 meg vs. 640K limit clear. My sources come directly form DOS batch-filing books, so I am somewhat familiar with what you are saying, albeit at an elementary level. However, Ralph Turner's Third Book of Atari ST Topics indicates the 16-meg limit on the TT. I know it's possible to do more, my Turbo board alone has the capability of up to 40 megs. I guess what I was referring to was the original design of the TT, as per the book (and other sources such as Dave Small's review of the TT in the old STart magazine, I believe it was touched on there as well). Besides, I thought you had to have a differrent board to get all that extra ram. I'm not so sure I agree that ST/TT Ram is "linear". Please note, I'm no programmer, but the TT ram, when first released, was incompatible with many titles (not just games). It was more likely a function of needing to update the software, as opposed to bad design. Also, the fact that programs can either operate in either ST or TT Ram and not both at the same time lend creedence to my argument. Many programmers in the Atari world have complained about memory management on the Atari TOS, but I couldn't really say much about it, not being sufficiently educated on that subject to comment. Once again, I feel I must reiterate that although we've discussed the IBM Ram vs. ST/TT Ram, for some to say it was "shortsighted" for one company for a limit but not say the same for the other really shows lack of knowledge, IMO. I guess, in the end, we'll just have to agree to disagree. No hard feelings??? None by me. I really appreciate your input. It is not only interesting and timely when you respond, but accurate. Mike, I mentioned in earlier posts I had not experienced the same problem one day. I can exactly recreate the problem only if I enter the Page Setup at any time during a session with AW. >Let's see now - what other off the wall DOS vs TOS vs MAC comment can I make >to rile the gang up again? We can all learn from these "tete a tetes". Tom ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 115 Sun Nov 21, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 23:02 EST Tom, Well, I can certainly say I have learned a lot more about TT RAM than I knew before. My original comments were more oriented to a comparison of a 2 to 4 mByte ST or STE as compared to a PC. Since most Atari programs seem tightly written as compared to a lot PC stuff I have used (if you want to see some real tight writing look at the stuff OS9 8-bit diehards code) and the ST memory is, as Al says, linear the overall experience with Atari's is that they run with fewer hassles than PC's. I can't say much about MAC's since I don't use fruit for computing. Ken Van, Might be some memory crunch going on there but I thought the SLM's would leave about 2 mBytes for program space. Could be wrong there. Did you try replacing the printer driver? It might have gotten munged and your system thinks the driver needs umpteen gigabytes to load. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 116 Sun Nov 21, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 23:31 EST I put 31 META.SYS in my ASSIGN.SYS before I got the error I posted recently. (Same one I've been getting.) My fonts and printer driver were all set up for Wordflair II, so I didn't think that needed to be changed. I haven't been able to boot Wordflair II since I made the change to the ASSIGN.SYS, but undoing it didn't help. I'm wondering about the DRIVERS.ACC. I have the SLM driver selected. Am I supposed to select something in the CUSTOM setting? A bunch of stuff shows up there, including my printer drivers and META.SYS. I'm not sure what those ROM and RES settings are for. Furthermore, if I have META.SYS in my ASSIGN.SYS, do I select that in some way or does the program do something with it anyway? Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 117 Mon Nov 22, 1993 L.CHANDLER [LINDA] at 00:27 EST gnox. Thanks for the info, Do you know if this "shel_read()" problem is also found with TOS 2.05, which is what I have on my Mega-STe? The problem with AW and its path information happened when I moved AW from the Falcon to the Mega- STe for printing. And THEN only after I tried to access the page set-up menu. For the previous few days it worked fine as I just played with it on the Falcon. And moved files to the Mega-STe. As I said, the solution was to add the proper drive letter in front of the backslash in the path set up and all was then well, including Speedo, Assign. sys.,Inf., etc. Linda "Papa", What is this 1040 STe business? Do you mean to say that the author of the premier text on the most outstanding combination software made for the Falcon doesn't even own a Falcon? Tsk...Tsk...Tsk...! Guess you'd better get working on the next two sections. My personal preferance would be for a data base manual as that is my weakest area. Spreadsheet stuff is pretty easy, but using that AW data base is pretty limited. Can't wait to see what you come up with. Linda ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 118 Mon Nov 22, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:25 EST Charles, Welcome back! Maybe I should plant a few crazy comments here now and then just so we can all get the benefit of your point of view. :) Yes, I know about the way TT RAM works. With sufficient TT RAM, most of what you describe as a problem does not get in the way. Given the set-in-stone nature of the ST's RAM management, Atari made a bright decision when the TT was created. And given the understanding of the times in 1985, the ST's setup isn't hard to forgive. Ken Van, I've forgotten what thread we were working on in regard to icons. I know you're not able to log on often. Jog my memory and I'll cough it back up. Mike Allen, I rememeber expanding my 130XE to 576k! The folks in the club were awed, and I had the meanest ramdisk around. I also had a wonderful spelling checker (in a word processor from Batteries Included) that recognized that RAM and used it to hold the dictionary. Spell-checked faster than my PC does even today! Papa, Sorry, I should have said it was due to everything but Geneva. :) (Sorry, I'm letting my biases show through! No doubt you are righter than I am on this, but I haven't had the problem you describe at any time, so it sounds more like a conflict that only shows up when the moon is in the east or something.) (BTW, I'm now Grandpapa for the third time. Take that, Papa!) Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 119 Mon Nov 22, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 06:18 EST Papa, I'll try replacing the printer drivers. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 120 Mon Nov 22, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:36 EST Linda, > Do you know if this "shel_read()" problem is also found with TOS 2.05, > which is what I have on my Mega-STe? I guess not, since you fixed the problem you had yourself. I just thought I'd put in a reminder that there are some AW path problems that _can't_ be fixed by the user. Al, Congratulations, Grandpapa! gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 121 Mon Nov 22, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:04 EST Al, Icons for TeraDesk. Any special file or do any icons work? You must have been using Paperclip on the 8-bit. Congratulations on the grandpa. Our first came on 1/29, and we liked her so much our daughter decided to have another baby next 3/4. %-) Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 122 Mon Nov 22, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:47 EST Ken, That's the message I used to get with the previous version of W9. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 123 Mon Nov 22, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 17:38 EST The SLM driver doesn't "leave" any memory available for program space. It has no idea how much memory is used by anybody. In fact, most SLM drivers are particularly ill-behaved when it comes to memory shortages. It's the other way around. If you want to print to an SLM printer, it's up to the _user_ to make sure there is enough memory. To print to the SLM requires about 1 meg of memory available for the printer driver at the time of printing. This is not only a GDOS requirement. It applies to any program which prints to the SLM printers. That's because the page image is constructed in the memory of your computer and the printer sends it directly to the paper using the DMA (Direct Memory Access) port. Think of it as a large screen display in memory with dimensions of 2400 x 3180 pixels. This gives you 7,632,000 dots and at 8 dots per byte it takes 954000 bytes. There's no way around this. You need 954000 bytes plus space for the driver code when you print to the SLM. If you forget this and install too much resident software, you'll have problems, which are complicated by insufficient error checking and no alerts. John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 124 Mon Nov 22, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 19:05 EST Ken Van, I double checked my ASSIGN.SYS and I show "61 MEMORY.SYS" also. I am not sure what the function of MEMORY.SYS is. Perhaps John could help us there. I would look it up in my Speedo book but I have misplaced it. I tried deleting it from my ASSIGN.SYS file with no adverse reactions but then I am not using an SLM laser - maybe it is for use with them. Oh, yes, the eagle flew today. Thanks! And the Terradesk icons can be found in the library by doing a search for "Newdesk". I am using some that I found in the lib - just can't remember the filename. Hmmm....old men and synaptic overload syndrome! Linda, Actually, to ensure usability by all, I should be doing all the work on a 1mByte TOS 1.0 ST in medium resolution! I have already started on the Database book but it is about 3 weeks behind where I wanted to be due to conflicting work (what's that!?) and personal schedules. Haven't even had the time to do anything to upload for a while . Hopefully things will settle down and let me get back to the book RSN. As far as the Falcon goes . . . buy the book - it'll put another nickel in the coffee can! (Hah! Gotcha!) Al, Benjamin David - GREAT name! I got a late start on my flock so it'll be a few more years for me. Mine are 17 and 12 - and get threatened with "Your kids will grow up to act just like you if you don't shape up!" To which they reply, "That's why I act the way I do!" and I go muttering off to find a quiet corner. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 125 Mon Nov 22, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 21:36 EST Papa, I got it to print (and Wordflair II will load now, and goes through the motions of printing but the printer doesn't do anything, so I'll have to work on that). I think what did it was reinstalling SpeedoGDOS. When I did that, I discovered a line in the ASSIGN.SYS file, 61 MEMORY.SYS, that wasn't there before. Maybe that's what was wrong. When I reinstalled, I got a message that said there was a GDOS file in my AUTO folder that should be deleted. The only one was the new one. I didn't delete it. Speedo defaults with 3 or 4 point size (10, 12, 18, 24 or so), so I left it like that, and it took foreverrrrr to load. I think I'll go back to just 10. I don't have that set of fonts for PageStream selected right now, either. Isn't it strange when you're in AW, and you select OPEN or NEW, that you get kicked to the welcome screen and have to make the same selection right over? Thanks for your help. I think I'm OK now. Keith Brooks, There's a symbol in your dingbats that is repeated instead of giving its parent character. I don't know what it is, but it's down where the numbered ones start, and it's near the one that comes from the ` key (which was also repeated but I figured out what its parent was). Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 126 Mon Nov 22, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 22:18 EST John, Thanks for the explanation. There may be some folks who can benefit from it, but I've become acutely aware of the memory situation. I have a special stripped setup on DeskMgr33 for printing my big Caligrapher files. I can write them with my regular setup, but can't print them. The printer really runs the show. I have to temporarily suspend use of a bunch of Codehead utilities and fly naked for a while. [While typing that paragraph, I was struck with what must have been the phantom typist. First time it happened. As I was typing, words began to repeat and when I tried to use the mouse the cursor became erratic. Weird!] Papa, Thanks. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 127 Tue Nov 23, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:16 EST Ken Van, Glad you got it going again. The reason the "welcome" screen comes on is that AW doesn't know whether you want to OPEN or make a NEW document, database or spreadsheet. It comes in very handy when you are using all three together. When Speedo is first installed you only get the original default point sizes. The others can be added from the OUTLINE.ACC if you want although it's really not necessary and it reduces the cache size you need. Actually I have all 60+ fonts installed in 10, 12, 18 and 24 points. Does take a while to load but not too long. Not as long as my Pagestream setup but definitely longer than Calamus. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 128 Tue Nov 23, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:26 EST Ken Van, 3/4 of a baby? :) Yes, PaperClip! Loved it! Ah, Tera icons. Tera uses the same icon format as TOS. But Tera has this really nice little trick: If you color an icon (lets say for the AUTO folder, making it orange or something like that) and place it on the desktop, yolu can then recolor it for the actual drive window, and Tera will keep the color you chose for the desktop AND the different color you picked for the drive window. This would also work, of course, if you used a pattern with b/w icons. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 129 Tue Nov 23, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:02 EST Ken, So the Phantom Typist finally got you! It paid a rare visit to my TT the other day. Like an old friend dropping in to say "Yoo-hoo, I'm still here ..." Are you using olt GDOS bitmap fonts with Speedo? It sounded like you were, when you described your setup - I think that would slow it down (though I haven't tried it myself). gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 130 Tue Nov 23, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:14 EST ken Van, Yes, that sounds like the phantom! Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 131 Tue Nov 23, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 10:44 EST Ken Van, I think the problem you are having with AW is not that there is not enough ram but your PRINTER.ACC is not set properly. You have to make sure you have the DA installed and reading the proper printer driver. Doesn't it (the error dialog) say something else besides not enough memory? I ran into that problem a number of times. Once I straightened out the path/printer settings on PRINTER.ACC the problem was solved. Steve ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 132 Tue Nov 23, 1993 THOMPSON2 [STYVWERX] at 10:48 EST Al, I'm not specifying a file to open in Works in my GEM.CNF, just the program. The "interesting" thing is that it only works that way, (which I prefer, b.t.w., on the home TT) when the "INF" file reads just the same on the TT at work and the TT at home. At work, I get the "normal" intro dialog to choose and open a file. At home, no dialog, and if I want to open a file, it's Control "O" or "N". ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 133 Tue Nov 23, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 20:20 EST Papa, But what's the point in choosing OPEN or NEW in the file menu, if you're going to be asked the same question again? Al, gnox, Nooo. I don't use bitmapped fonts anymore. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 134 Tue Nov 23, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 21:37 EST Ken Van, Yeah, you're right. It would be much nicer to just click on the the WP, DB or SS icon and AtariWorks would already have New or Open passed as an argument without having to click on it again. That would require some additional code to determine whether you were starting up or going into it from the AW menu bar. It's not as bad as the same routine in GeoWorks Ver. 2.0 that hits you with that kind of thing every time you do anything. Imagine what it would be like to run AtariWorks with an inherent 5 to 10 second lag every time you selected a menu option and you get an idea of what GeoWorks is like D D D D D D Don the MonkeyDOS platform is like! One heck of a powerful suite of integrated applications but, Oh so slo-o-o-w! 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 135 Tue Nov 23, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 21:48 EST Ken Van, . . . and all the Lurkers ready to pounce on poor ol' 'Papa' AtariWorks already does what I was saying it should oughta do! Start AW, Open a file, Click on New, Select an icon, _double_ click_ thereupon that little beastie and a New WP, DB or SS shall appear. If you clicked on Open in the Menu Bar the double click on the appropriate icon calls ye olde file selector. Slick stuff and I never thought to try a double click before! Shame on me! 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 136 Wed Nov 24, 1993 R.BENNETT7 [Rodney] at 03:10 EST >Rodney, Thanks for the tip. I can't locate FPRINT though. Could it be under >another name? >---------- D.PHELPS [Doug] It's FPPRINT, sorry for the misspelling. If it isn't online, I'll dig up through my archieves and send it up, if you haven't located it yet. Rodney [gnox] Yeap, thanks for the correction. I don't get on here as much as I like, so my replies are somewhat 'old' in nature. M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'], Are you close to Hickam AFB? I pop in there about every 2 months, we normally stay downtown Honolulu at on of the many Outriggers. Maybe I can give you a ring when I come in? Rodney G.NORTON [Falcon Systm] I too have a BJ-200 printer, (fantastic Bubble Jet if you ask me!) I've been using the BJ10 driver for SpeedoGDOS along with FPPRINT to speed up the print routines with no problems. I don't think there is really any difference between the BJ-10 and BJ-200 with exception of looks. I could be wrong though. Rodney ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 137 Wed Nov 24, 1993 C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --] at 05:13 EST John G, I've played around with MyDraw quite a bit, but haven't ever had it bomb on exit! I'm SURE I've tried all the menus and dialogs, but I'll check it again just in case I missed something. I know I've printed stuff from it, as well as saving GEM files which I then loaded into AW with no problems. One problem I HAVE had with MD is in the list of fonts that drops down from the menu bar - the first slot is always blank, and the rest do NOT correspond to the fonts that are actually used when I select them; that is, if the list begins like this: (blank first slot) Dutch 801 Roman Swiss 721 Caligraphic 401 Fixed Pitch Courier ... (I don't think I got all the numbers right, but you get the idea) then when I select, say, the Swiss font from the menu, I might get the Vag Rounded font on the screen. If I go into the fonts dialog and assign fonts to the slots, I DO get the correct fonts, though. Also, I found that I can't use the fonts AT ALL if I don't have some cache memory set aside in Speedo for bitmapped fonts! I don't remember exactly what the alert box said, but the program would load okay - with NO fonts listed under the menu, and nothing available from the dialog! Very strange, indeed... Papa, I beliee what Ken was referring to is when you select "open" or "new" from the _menu_ bar, which then calls the selection dialog in which you must select the wordprocessor, database, or spreadsheet, and then select "open" or "new" (or "cancel") _again_! I, too, find this annoyingly redundant (or redundantly annoying, if you prefer)... -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 138 Wed Nov 24, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:00 EST Papa, And another AW tip goes into my universal Help file ... thank you! gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 139 Wed Nov 24, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:17 EST Papa, Or, looking at it another way, if you're already in WP, DB, or SS, why can't it assume you intend to stay there, and have a button that says switch modes or something, if you want to do that? I think someone is most likely to stay in the same mode for a while. Oh, I'll try double-click. So you can have it both ways, eh? Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 140 Wed Nov 24, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:17 EST Papa, Put that double-click tip in the next revision of your book! Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 141 Wed Nov 24, 1993 PRADIP [Pradip@Works] at 13:52 EST ALL AW always remembers the last icon you had used. You can see that when you select new/open from the file menu and the dialog box appears - the icon you used previously is still selected and the Exit button for New/Open is the default button depending upon What you selected from the file menu. If you are using the key-board short-cuts, you have to hit an extra CR. Also you can select a particular icon by double clicking and a new/open will occur depending upon your menu selection (as Papa suggested). Ken Van I am sorry, but it doesn't sound universal. You just might like 'to open a Db or an SS while you are working on WP. Pradip ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 142 Wed Nov 24, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 14:40 EST -- Chuck -- Sounds like you are running the older version of MyDraw (1.06) under Geneva. It has som% problems with the font dialog s there . The new version 1.10 that I uploaded last month (File #30563 and English RSC file #30692) seem to work fine under Geneva except for bombing out after printing. It should NOT be necessary to have bitmaps turned on except in the older version - and even then it isn't really necessary. The fonts should be loaded in the order thof their internal font ID number (I haven't figured out yet if this corresponds to the Speedo BXnnnnnn.SPD filename yet). Cache size, if too small, will generate an error message on some files but not others. MyDraw seems to do a lot of disk thrashing wh n you print - again, I don't know why this is . In my Speedo setup I have 10, 12, 18 and 24 points set as defaults and I created width t ables for a ll . The width tables are turned off and I don't have any bitmap cache set since I'm not using an y of the older GDOS fonts. Ke n Van, ]Like Pradip said - you might want to Open or New a Database or Spread- sheet while wo oking in WP mode. AW has no way to know what you want - you have to tell it. AtariWorks is actually less annoying than a lot of other integrated apps in this respect. Fewer gymnastics involved. Al, Good idea. Probably put it in the "Flying in Formation" chapter. All, Wouldn't it be neat if . . . There was another bar at the bottom of the screen with icons for running file utilities, other apps, etc. (I know - it can be done in Geneva or MultiTOS). What I am thinking of is ATARIWORKS THE ENVIRONMENT - sort of like the way GeoWorks looks and works but, of course, infinitely better because it's ATARI!! 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 143 Wed Nov 24, 1993 THOMPSON2 [STYVWERX] at 23:37 EST I, too, have been unsuccessful in a search for FPPrint. FPrint yeilded a basic routine. Could some one who has it send it up? I REALLY could use more speed from my BJ200. It's way slower than My Epson LQ1010, and G-Spool doesn't seem to help much, either, as it hogs the processor, even with the disc spooler going! ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 144 Thu Nov 25, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 00:17 EST STYVWERX, FPPrint is FPPRNT.LZH (File #20472) in the library. It will speed up the real time printing of most, if not all, applications but you will not notice any reduction in print time when running with G_Spool. What G_Spool will do is allow you some limited multitasking while printing. In other words, you can dump one .DOC to the printer and start working on another while the printer does its thing _sort_of_ in the background. To my mind G_Spools greatest value _to_me_ is that it allows me to print the file to disk so that it can be accessed and printed WITHOUT the need of running the program in which it was created and you can specify the number of copies you want printed. You can also queue files for printing. If you have a bunch of stuff to print for the next day you can set up the queue and just let 'er rip all night long while you saw logs! All, Y'all have a very Happy Thanksgiving, now . . . ya hear?! 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 145 Thu Nov 25, 1993 THOMPSON2 [STYVWERX] at 12:47 EST Papa, thanx much for the file listing, and I wish you a full turkey tummy too. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 146 Thu Nov 25, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 19:01 EST Papa, I noticed some of your messages are messed up as if you tried to use arrow keys to edit online and some other problem where characters are missing, etc. Look at some of you recent post to get an idea. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 147 Thu Nov 25, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 22:44 EST Wayne, Umm, yes. I do have a tendency to backspace over and retype. I don't know for sure if this happens only when I'm in Procomm on my wife's PC or whether it also happens when I'm in Stalker on the GOOD stuff. Once in a while I get carried away and start typing before the line cursor appears. 'Papa' ------------