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The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== Category 16, Topic 20 Message 1 Mon Jun 22, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 18:25 EDT For your interest: CALAMUS SL COMPATIBLE FILE FORMATS as of June 22, 1992 TEXT IMPORT ----------- ASCII Calamus Text Document .CTD Calamus Text file .CTX WordPerfect 5.0 1st Word Plus TEXT EXPORT ----------- ASCII Calamus Text Document .CTD GRAPHICS IMPORT --------------- Atari Image Manager .AIM Calamus Raster Document .CRD Calamus Raster Graphic .CRG Calamus Vector Document .CVD Calamus Vector Graphic .CVG Degas Elite ESM (Cranach) GEM Image .IMG GEM Metafile .GEM GIF HPGL Interchange File Format .IFF Matrix Screensaver Neochrome RAW STAD TIFF 6.0 Targa 2.0 GRAPHICS EXPORT --------------- AutoCAD .DXF* Calamus Raster Document .CRD Calamus Raster Graphic .CRG Calamus Vector Document .CVD Calamus Vector Graphic .CVG* Degas Elite* Doodle* Encapsulated PostScript* Enhanced Simplex (Cranach)* GEM Image .IMG* GEM Metafile .GEM* GFA Blockformat* GIF 87a* HPGL Plotfile* IFF (ILBM)* Neochrome* Paintbrush .PCX* PostScript* Targa* TIFF TIFF CMYK OUTPUT DEVICES -------------- Canon BJ-10E Epson FX Series and compatibles Epson LQ Series and compatibles Epson GQ/EPJ HP Deskjet HP Deskjet 500 Color HP LaserJet II and compatibles HP LaserJet III HP PaintJet HP PaintJet XL Linotronic L100, L200, L300 & L500 Series Mitsubishi SH340-10 NEC CP6 NEC S60 Panasonic KXP 1124 SpectraStar 300 dpi Thermal Transfer Ultre Setter * available as part of the Dataformer ModuleFor your interest: ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 2 Wed Mar 03, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 22:37 EST Help, Why, when i am using a CVD and a text frame can't i get an irregular text flow. I know i'm doing something wrong, but it is starting to #$@% me off. I have done this before with raster areas and CVG/GEM images but the CVD doesn't work, it just flows around the frame. WHY? WHY ME? WHY TODAY? WHY ASK WHY? Jim. (Still smiling) Okay, I've done some more work with this text flow thing and have gotten the text to flow around the graphic. (Don't know what i was donig before but i works now, sorta) New problem. If i rotate this CVD say 45 degrees and flow the text the text flows around the graphic as though its not rotated. Can someone please try this for me. So you understand what i'm doing here is a description. I started with an .IMG file of a paddle, and speedlined it. Saved it as a CVD, and imported it into my brochure doc. I sized it, positioned it, rotated it, copied it, and mirrored it horz. This gave me two crossed paddles to flow the text around. When i do the text flow, it flows as though the paddles are straight up and down (position prior to rotation. (Note: I would like to see a more intelligent frame module in dealing with grouped frame. Like being able to save a grouped frame as a CVD if all the compontents are vector as in my paddles above.) Can you irregular text flow around a grouped frame? If not why? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 3 Wed Mar 03, 1993 ISD [Mario] at 23:22 EST Jim, I will check out the CVD thing you are reporting. However Dataformer already allows you to convert grouped frames out as Raster or Vector Graphics (the latter only allows the vector based objects to be "Dataformed" including Vector Graphics, Text, Raster area frames and Line frames). Mario @ DMC Publishing ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 4 Wed Mar 03, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 23:51 EST I'd have to agree with Stephen... sort of.:-) I don't understand the need for both Dataformer and Import/Export drivers. They seem to perform overlapping functions. Dataformer does what I need so I'm happy with it but it seems rather complex for just importing and exporting stuff. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 5 Wed Mar 03, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 23:58 EST Actually, if you look at the options in Dataformer, there are choices when exporting files. These options would not be available in a simple export driver. Any, this discussion should be in the Dataformer topic. Is anyone interested in having a topic here to discuss the pricing of your DTP work? I have had an inquiry about starting a topic. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 6 Thu Mar 04, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 00:46 EST Mario, Thanks. DMC, I guess i don't truely understand why "German Programming gods" have chosen to make something that should be simple and inexpensive, difficult and costly. Why, when all i want to do is save/export a grouped frame must i spend $100. I have little or no use for saving SL pages/frames as raster graphics yet i have to purchase that part of Dataformer inorder to get what i want. What happened to WYNIWYG. It will be impossible now to go back and fix this problem so it is probably a moot point but here goes. There should have been a TON of import/export drivers made and release so that you could buy them individually. The Import/Export options are right in SL. If the basic capabilities were not able to handle complex import/export functions then SL could be updated. The Dataformer module is like insurance. What other industry are you forced into purchase product. What You Need Is What You Get? NOT! Jim. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 7 Thu Mar 04, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 08:30 EST I can only imagine the response if I chose to SELL import and export drivers for the standard file formats. I will be out of town until Monday although I will try to get online. Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 8 Thu Mar 04, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 21:59 EST Lou, I'll monitor a topic on pricing, since I would like to possibly head in that direction in the not too distant future. Ken S. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 9 Thu Mar 04, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 22:20 EST But Nathan, that is what you are doing with Dataformer. My complaint is not that i have to pay for the import/export capabilities (although FREE would be okay too! :^> ), its just the way it has been implemented. No flame, honest. :^) Jim. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 10 Thu Mar 04, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 23:03 EST Fellow Calamusians! Does anyone know of ANY photo retouching/manipulation software along the lines of Photoshop out there for us Atarians? I just inherited 3 quarter-page US West Yellow Pages adv jobs today and all three require extensive manipulation of color photos into halftones. I have a scanning service putting them into PC format TIFFs for me (I hope they load OK). I know Cranache isn't ready yet - so what else is there? And of course, the deadline is march 15. Heh, heh. OPINIONS GLADLY ACCEPTED. Doug7 ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 11 Thu Mar 04, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 23:59 EST Doug, If you have problem with your TIFF's tell them to uncompress them. I think SL has problems with IBM compressed TIFF's. I tried a couple a friend gave me and they where scrambled. Theres several ways to save them so you may want to ask if they can save them for the MAC. Then of coarse they may work right off! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 12 Fri Mar 05, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 00:30 EST Yes, pricing and any other business tips would be appreciated. I have lost money on jobs by quoting unrealistically or under- estimating the time required. And I have lost money to non-paying clients. Part of learning the business I suppose. I'm sure we could swap some great battle stories here. ;-) I have developed a standard contract (Confirmation of Assignment) and several job/time tracking sheets in CDK format for the DTP end of my business, if anyone is interested. Doug7 ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 13 Fri Mar 05, 1993 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 02:38 EST Lou, The reason I would like to save CVG with traced pictures is so I could add them to my collection, and then catalog them. I do have the Vector Editor, which is pretty ok, nothing to call mother about. But my main purpose for saving CVG is stated above. What will Mask do? I am interested in a DTP pricing category. Exporting CTD: I disabled _everything_ in my auto folder. I even deleted my NEWDESK.INF file. I booted with a truly clean system, not even patch programs like WrapFix. My SL _will not_ export CTD. My driver is dated 16.06.92. Everyone, I seem to have found another little shortcut (boy, don't we need them. :-) ). I don't think this was mentioned here before, but here goes. For the import and export dialog box (where you load, delete, etc. the drivers) and the modules dialog box, you can just double-click whatever you want and it's the same as selecting it and hitting the Import, Export, or Execute button in the dialog box. Try it. Double click on any import/export driver or module in their load, delete, etc. dialog box. Now, if only my CTD driver would export. :-) - Kyle A. Miller San Antonio, Texas March 4, 1993 - 1:58:40 am ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 14 Fri Mar 05, 1993 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 07:41 EST Lou: You bet I'd be interested in discussing the pricing of DTP work! My experience has been that pricing is HIGHLY variable and found that it can be a "shot in the dark" when bidding. The advantage to the Atari platform is that you can generally undercut the competition without cutting your own throat. Let's talk brass tacks. I've found that I've encountered more success pricing on a flat rate rather than a per hour basis. I'm doing a 40 page booklet right now for around $300 design and layout plus printing costs. I've found that you've really got to know your customer. Some require many revisions and others require virtually none. A 8-1/2" x 11" pamphlet (2 sides) is going for $40. The printer I work with charges $60 ($20 mark up) this seems a little high on the mark up. This would be primary for typesetting with only one graphic done in Outline Art. I get the feeling I'm low on pricing, but I'm building my business too. I get around $100 for an 11" x 17" (two sides) newsletter I do on a monthly basis. Again, I've heard of folks charging as much as $100 per page which seems high. I do not purport to be a "professional" design studio and work out of a home office. I stick to the day to day printing needs of small businesses. Breaking into the one-stop shopping printing market has been tough. I've found marketing to be the name of game. The happy clients definately come back for more. You've really got to get out and build a clientele. My printer feels that my work is on par with his typesetter and has indicted that he likely will be coming to me for some layout work in the future. I'd realy like to hear from others as to the going rates they charge. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 15 Fri Mar 05, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 08:47 EST Joey, Thanks for the advice. I thought we couldn't read Mac disks? Binary Ink, Wow, your prices _are_ a bargain. But I know what you mean: getting the "foot in the door" is important. I have recently gone more to an hourly "technician" rate because of the many variables involved. But still, I often quote a flate rate for the basic labor and design on a piece, then shift into hourly for all revisions that are not due to an error or oversight on my part. This is all pre-arranged on the contract, signed up front. I have a tendancy to lower my part of the fees if I have to deal with Lino, to offset the added cost of shipping ($25) + long distance communications (>$5) that would otherwise make my work uncompetitive. Oh, for a local service bureau! Last year, I got stung by a company manager who rush-ordered an ad for the Sunday TV supp of a metro newspaper. I did the ad, delivered to paper's grafix, and saw it run, only to find out 2 invoices later that the person (since fired) was not authorized to place the ad. Of course, I didn't use a binding agreement on that one, so I never collected. This was a well established company, too! Doug7 ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 16 Fri Mar 05, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 19:46 EST I suspect that the contract that you use with your clients would also be of interest, as would any that anyone else has created. We could share and compare concepts. This is starting to get seriously interesting. Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 17 Fri Mar 05, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 21:21 EST Kyle, I wonder if your CTD driver is corrupt? How far into the export function do you get? Does it crash or hang your system? Or is the resulting file not importable? Please leave a few more details. My copy seems to work fine. Select frame; hit ALT E and select Calamus Text Document; name file and save. Draw new text frame; hit ALT I and import the file! My copy is dated 26.08.92 and is 4086 bytes. I did not check my original driver . I have lots of DA's and AUTO's running. There is an upgrade Vector Graphic module coming soon. I have a German beta and have not tested it yet. However, the new Mask module will be offered for sale in the next newsletter. Mask is a very simple but powerful module that allows you to filter one image (or any frame contents) through another. For example, you could use a color stipple pattern to fill a frame full of text, or mount several photos on the same collage; or clean up rotated photographs or other images. There are countless other ways to use Mask... and lots of detailed examples are in the new documentation. Dave.. thanks for the first post on our DTP pricing thread. I hope someone opens a new topic so we can forward your message there. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 18 Fri Mar 05, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 22:28 EST Mario and DMC, I have done some more experimenting and SL has a major flaw in its text flow, it does not handle text flow around rotated objects. I have tried CVD and Raster areas and neither woeks properly. The text flow as though the object were not rotated. am i wrong, or is SL? Jim. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 19 Sat Mar 06, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 01:05 EST Jim, I will check it out tomorrow. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 20 Sat Mar 06, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 02:26 EST Doug, I should have said Motorola to be more specific. I'm not sure how their saving the images but you don't want a MAC disk just MAC TIFF files.:-) I'm just guessing based on the options available in Touch Up and GEMview as they allow you to load/save TIFFs in Intel (IBM) or Motorola (Mac, Atari,Amiga) format. Touch Up also offers options on the way it's compressed. They should be able to find some option that SL will handle. The IBM TIFFs I tried didn't work but they guy didn't know what he was doing so I let him be without much experimenting.:-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 21 Sat Mar 06, 1993 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 04:13 EST Doug, I would be interested in the contract and job time tracking sheets. Thanx! Anyone, Does anyone know off hand if the Codeheads have a copy of SL? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 22 Sat Mar 06, 1993 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 08:24 EST Doug: I, for one, would be interested in your Confirmation of Assignment and job tracking forms. F-Mail or leave a number on E-Mail and I'll give you a call for a faster, high speed transfer. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 23 Sat Mar 06, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 10:34 EST Since there is enough interest in Doug's form, I would suggest he upload it to Library 30 so everyone can have access to it. Would you mind doing that, Doug? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 24 Sat Mar 06, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 13:33 EST A little bit of catchup... I need to get some help from Mario on the question of text flow around rotated frames, but Jim Renner's report is accurate. When rotating a raster area or vector graphic, the text flow conforms to the original paths of the object, not the rotated paths. I know there are indirect methods to accomplish the effect of flowing text around a rotated object, but these involve the creation of "vectorized trace" of the rotated object. If anyone else has additional tips, please share them here. Doug, I found a way to output a page into a 300 dpi IMG file from Dataformer Raster. The secret is to reset your screen resolution to 300 dpi first using the System Parameters module. Then, in any view magnification, call D/F Raster and select Page and 300 dpi. The resulting IMG file is as clean as printing the original CDK. Steven, Dave, et al... we have a new topic for discussing DTP pricing. I expect the BB sysops to move related messages to that area shortly. Kyle, the CTD driver works properly from my testing and rechecking. I suspect you may have a corrupted file, not a clash with DA's or AUTO's. The function of the CTD driver is conversion of information to a disk-based data file. It is not really a RAM related problem that might be associated with other TSR programs. You also wanted to CVG your pictures for cataloging purposes. However, there is a terrific GEM CAT feature in the Wiz Works product called IMG CAT which actually handles many formats. Dr. Bob Parks has let us know that they are working on a CVG CAT too. Regarding the MOUNT module problem reported with large documents... I just printed out the 47 page draft of the MASK manual using Mount. All pages printed perfectly... 2 half pages to each Letter page. I suspect the crash reported may be due to timing problems with the HP printer that was used. Perhaps a product like OUTBURST would solve the problem? Mike McFee is writing a review on Dataformer and reports excellent results with TIFF files and most other formats. He has found some problem with PS file output. I hope Mike can post his results when he has isolated the problem. Jim, you commented on having to buy Dataformer Raster _with_ Dataformer Vector. I don't know if Nathan has the option to market these items separately. However, I do know that an upcoming module will combine both sets of functions into _one_ module. I suspect that had been the original thinking when creating the first versions. Finally, Stephen is working on Part 2 and 3 of the Style TIP. Have you all downloaded STYLE1.LZH yet? Let us know how you like it... in TOPic 7, of course :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 25 Sat Mar 06, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 14:14 EST Kyle & Dave, I could upload some of the forms in CDK format. Understand that these forms are designed for my specific business - right now floating around 30% DTP, 50% consulting/service, and 20% learning ;-) My only only real concern is one of liability. For instance, most of my forms are derived from "ready-to-use, tear-out" standard forms from industry specific books that I have purchased. Although my versions are not _copies_ per se, they _are_ similar in intent, and for the legalese, sometimes use nearly direct (albeit, standard) text copy. Anyone have any "legal" thoughts on this? ~~~~~~~~~~ To all, I, for one think that is ABSOLUTELY necessary that we expand support for each other along this vein. Heres some cold hard reality, folks: Just in the last year, the DTP/pre-press market has been exploding. With just about anyone now able to buy the new, relatively inexpensive, but POWERFUL Macs or PCs bundled with excellent layout and graphics software, the DTP market is getting VERY crowded. No, the _quality_ may not always be there, but the sheer volume of availiable designers, authors, (and wannabees) - many being displaced workers looking for new sources of income - means tougher competition for the limited dollar. Those of us who rely strictly on the ST/TT platform for our income have to work a little harder and smarter to stay competitive. Most of us already _know_ what the hardware and software obstacles are; many of which are being addressed. But, the very fact that we _are_ such a tiny part of the industry also works to our advantage: strong community support (Darwinism at its best: only the "fittest" are still here). We are already fortunate to have excellent technical support here, so let's now expand on the "operational" end of this business. A "support network" for the _business_ of these tools. Whack! (The Soapbox Cop just smacked the side of my head... ;-) Doug7 ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 26 Sat Mar 06, 1993 ISD [Mario] at 18:24 EST Kyle, have you tried selecting a text frame first and then trying the Calamus.CTD export (I know this seems obvious, but It has occured in the past with other users. Jim is absolutely correct in that SL treats rotated objects as If they were unrotated, However this is not a flaw in the program just a feature to upgrade. This can be bypassed by Dataforming the objects to vector objects or by using the vector graphic module to create a flow around shape that conforms to the shape you require text to flow around. The other solution is to print the shape to an image file and then import and speedline the object if this solution seems a little circuitous ... remember this it sure saves the time it would take to recreate the graphic externally. much the same way as you would group frames, without merging them into one object. This grouped frame can then be rotated using the Rotate Object function (7.5.1.6) inside the Vector Graphic Module. Doug, I have found that If you ask for a 50% deposit upon a jobs confimation (especially from new clients, that this will end up saving you money, by establishing that you are a professional and that the mean business as they have already paid you a security meaning they have money to pay you when you finish. Doug your experience with the TV Guide is a common one ... Always get a PO or WO number for these kind of jobs. You may still have a recourse in that they used your artwork on the AD and didn't pay you for it. Collecting is always fun. ... For all you DTP'ers who are shy about asking for deposits, dont be ... this is an industry accepted practice for the design industry. Some good sources for information on industry pricing standards and practices may be garnered from How and Step by Step magazines and from the book by the Graphic Artists guild. These publications and more are listed in the book list I uploaded to the library. I forget the file #. Lou, you are making things more comiplicated than they need to be Simply clear the DPI fields in Dataformer and enter you own for whatever resolutions you need the file to be. Mario @ DMC Publishing ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 27 Sat Mar 06, 1993 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 18:29 EST Lou, I get to the export drivers box. I select Calamus Text Document and EXPORT. The file selector comes up. I type in the filename and hit return (or click OK). Nothing is written to the disk and the Export Drivers Selection box comes back. The system does not crash. I even tried using the original driver on the floppy disk. No dice. And this time, I am using my Hotwire setup, which did work a couple of times. The bytes read the same as yours, 4086 bytes dated 07/03/92. Thanx for the info. on the new modules. I will be keeping an eye out for the newsletter. :-) - Kyle A. Miller San Antonio, Texas March 6, 1993 - 5:09:48 pm ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 28 Sat Mar 06, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 18:38 EST Mario, I tried your suggestion and you are right. I guess the problem with selecting the 300 dpi button is that the original file is not 300 dpi? I am still confused why entering the value manually is different from clicking it in via the 300 dpi button. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 29 Sat Mar 06, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 20:19 EST Lou and Mario, Thanks for checking out my problem. I'm just going to do the rotation and overlay in Touch-up and then speedline it. Hope they fix the text flow in a new version. Thanks again, Jim. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 30 Sat Mar 06, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 20:28 EST Ah, yes, DER TONER IST LEER :-) Slm 804 driver Ken S. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 31 Sun Mar 07, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 02:19 EST Mario - thanks for the advice about getting a 50% deposit. Hmm, my contract has an option for "expenses" up front, but I like the deposit idea. BTW, I _had_ a PO for the TV section job. What I _didn't_ have was a binding contract. I do now! Lightning will never strike THIS guy more than twice in the same place, ya know! ;-) Many thanks for the phone support on Friday. Doug7 ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 32 Sun Mar 07, 1993 M.SHANNON at 02:30 EST Nathan, Thanks taken, I will check... (by the way, can I get a refund or credit on MOUNT? I'd be happy to return it to you as it serves absolutely no purpose for me as it is in it's present configuration.) I have to ask as a "satisfaction guaranteed" offer was not forthcoming from ISD/DMC, even in the face of obvious user disappointment/s. M.SHANNON Nathan, You could undoubtedly sell anything that works and works well. It's a proven fact: people pay good money for useful tools (software included). Try it you'll like it. Imagination is great! I wish you the best success in this endeavor. Regards M.SHANNON Lou, RE: Verbosity, releavant and irrelevant I edited the post you made reference to everyday for about a week in an attempt to make it as impersonal as possible, to "cool it off". First you read my post to someone else and then you take a back-shot at me while responding to another post by subjectively catagorizing the dialogue not intended for you in the first place without so much as a thought to approach me directly. _noodles_ Still you take the opportunity to be "personally offended". Why not "impersonally offended"? Why not just "offended" period. Is there some specificity of context here that I'm missing or am I just too obtuse? I'd be interested in your job description to see if it includes being offended. You will take my post as you interpret it, I could care less how it sits with you particularly if your reading someone elses mail. I believe you believe my position is uncalled for, but don't expect me to believe it. ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- I have just reread your post to me for the fifth time, so specifically: I've had responses in relation to WP importing so it isn't germane now, thanks anyway. TIPS should have been designed or at least implemented to print "bak-2-bak", it makes sense as the binder won't ever hold all the TIPS (single-sided) so far. I find this kind of planning short-sighted at best. You may not realize that I, along with many others, have my own unique way of organizing information and data and it suits my needs and style of mentation. So could you get past the additional "your way" commentary and just get to the facts at hand? If I wanted to know how Lou does it I would ask... otherwise I just need the information relevant to the problen, nothing else. This is a technical TOP isn't it? See, I could care less about who could have said what but didn't. Gossip is counterproductive and I'm not interested in being belabored by the "wait'll you see whats comming up next" lines. Your opinions of whats new and whats dynamite, since you may be the only person with what actually _is_ new here, may be of interest to you but they are of no interest nor consequence to me. For me they haven't even happened yet, as a matter of fact they may never happen to me unless I purchase them so the continuous reference to "the latest and greatest" module\s has lost it's flavor and appeal to me. Some of them still don't work effectively, and the prospects of getting a "fix" doesn't look good for whatever "reason". Still we hear more and more about the _next_ "really great" module we can spend our hard earned money on. Haven't you noticed the size of this TOP at all? Does the amount of data and dialogue here mean anything to you? Does it in some way indicate how easy and trouble free SL is? Are these hundreds of lines just chock full of accolades for SL, or am I missing something here once again? You may feel excited about having a hot-line to Germany and getting off on giving input to the programmers about the "latest" module you have in your hands. Well I don't, and since I don't I don't care for the sales pitch, commentary or distraction. I'll read about all the latest stuff in the newsletter, thanks anyway. More clearly: clear, concise, applicable problem solving is what I'm here for. If personality were taken out of this TOPIC's equation I'm certain much more information would be forthcoming, and don't take my word for it. Take a poll. ...and if you weren't threatening info-starvation just what were you doing? I don't depend on you personally Lou, despite you expansive expertise, to solve my problems, nor do I make it my job in life to offend you. I don't even know you. I don't even think I like you. As to my posts to the user-base, if you can let someone else reply it will save you the grief and personal offense and it will save me the time and energy. There are enough Calamites here to cope with all but the most imprecise use of SL I have to suffer at my level of competence anyway. Now, can we get back to the real purpose of this TOP? M.SHANNON ORCA, Yep, that helps. Much obliged. M.SHANNON ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 33 Sun Mar 07, 1993 M.SHANNON at 02:52 EST Doug, 1. If they used your product they must pay for it... bill them. You have a contract with them, one called a contract of adhesion: If I do a job for you and you don't stop me or object in any way I bill you for it, and you pay for it plain and simple. Legal as well. 2. You got it right this time! Thanks for the thoughts on NETWORKING DTP in our own interests. Best of Luck, M.SHANNON ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 34 Sun Mar 07, 1993 WALLY.W [ _Wally_ ] at 06:52 EST Howdy, First, my apologies to everyone else for this post. M.SHANNON, It looks to me like your gripe is coming across as more personal, and less professional than you profess. Your posts are: _parry_ _thrust_ _jab_... While Lou's posts are: _I'm too busy to be treated like this_ _information_ _support_ _information_ _support_. Just another view on the entire thread from the sidelines...nothing personal at all. Either way, you've not managed to keep anything personal/emotional out of your messages. If you want support, this is definitely the place to get it...but remember they can't fix everything, and you might just be one of the folks they can't "please all of the time". I certainly can't imagine you talking to them on the phone like this. You take _suggestions_ as""your way" commentary", you've blatantly called them "waiters" and then _demanded_ they wait on you, then you told them you really couldn't give a hoot how you make them feel but that they had _better_ care about how they make you feel. These folks are _people_, just like you and me. Not WAITERS; not mindless/emotionless, servitude automatons; and not punching bags. No one _has_ to take this kind of abuse, not even merchants; I've yet to see that law. Just because they offer a product you use, doesn't automatically reduce them in status such that they have to cow-tow to you. Like I said, just my view of the ENTIRE thread, from the sidelines...nothing personal. The personal stuff is just below this paragraph... Personally, you've done a fine job of ticking me off with your holier-than- thou/please-me-or-else attitude. Basically, you just burst into the Topic and demanded that we all change the way it has been going just to suit your needs for clear and concise technical info, and nothing else...These Topics are my ONLY (read: O-N-L-Y) source of information for DTP work. Try living in southeastern Alaska for a real taste of an informational void. Please take your Gestalt math elsewhere when drawing up your equations. Your opinion of what's dynamite and concise and necessary is completely foreign to me, and I don't appreciate you forcing it on me at $8.00 per hour in a Topic that functioned perfectly before you arrived. I sincerely hope you don't do this in every Topic I have MARked. You may reply to me personally, in Email, as I will not sully this Topic with this further...besides, Email is only $2.00 per hour. :-) Regards, Wally 22 days and a wakeup... ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 35 Sun Mar 07, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 08:17 EST I am currently out of town and typing from my STacy. I imagine I will have more to say when I get back. In the meantime M.SHANNON, I'm sorry but I refuse to remove the personalities from this category. As Wally indicated, we are people too! Our personalities are a major part of the reason that most people have appeared to be pleased with our support and the entire feel in this category. While only a few dozen post regularly, around 1500 people read every single post here! That is a fact. I believe that the MOUNT module does exactly what we said it would do. Although I do wish it could do more, I can assure you that there was absolutely no attempt made to mislead anyone. I am sorry that you feel otherwise. It was priced according to its merits, in my opinion, and has functioned just fine in many instances for may of our registered customers. Constructive criticism is ALWAYS welcome. I do not claim to be infallible nor am I all-knowing. I appreciate and encourage the input, from everyone. Wally ... Thanks for posting. Sincerely Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 36 Sun Mar 07, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 09:43 EST Lou, Since I had the Mount (large file) problem I will give OutBurst a try. Thanks for the suggestion. I will let you know how it turns out. BTW sorry I have not gotten back to you with the file information I promised. The powers to be at work decided to update all our software last week. I have been running around getting about 40 machines and about 60 users up to speed as well as re-writing all the macros that no longer work. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 37 Sun Mar 07, 1993 A.VALENT [Mike] at 09:48 EST Stephen, I'm still around. Lately have been checking GEnie only a couple of times a week - kinda like occasionally tuning into a soap opera whose pace has gotten so slow you can't stand to watch it every day... but you still want to see if Jack's reaction when his mistress finally gives birth (if she's ACTUALLY pregnant this time) to that baby that we know is going to look just like his most bitter rival, Steve J. Like my mama used to say, "Write when you find work." ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 38 Sun Mar 07, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 11:55 EST Thanks Ken... there's a couple more too :-) M.SHANNON, in my real life job I am the principal of an elementary school. In my 'hobby life' I am an end user and beta tester for DMC Publishing. I also write documentation for some of their products. I also provide techical support for Calamus SL and, occasionally, Calamus 1.09N. Most people here already knew that but I provide it at your request since it seems to be important to you. Why do I speak of upcoming modules? Because people have expressed an interest in that information. I try to include a little bit of that information with the technical support because of the nature of Calamus SL. It is a modular program and people like to know what modules are coming. Have you read those messages from other users asking about these modules? As I recall your points: o You don't want to hear about new modules while 'old' ones don't work to your satisfaction. o You don't want to hear 'excuses' about fixes that have not been finished. I am sorry that I will not be satisfying your request on the first point unless Nathan or the other readers here tell me otherwise. In response to your second point, I was trying to clarify in my last post to you that we attempt to provide honest, factual responses to users. Sometimes those responses are that a fix has been requested - sometimes several times. You have chosen to interpret those responses as 'buck passing' to which I made my original comment that has so greatly antagonized you. Once again, I regret that I am not going to change that approach to suit you either. People post their bug reports and want to know what is happening. Sometimes we can say it is fixed. Sometimes we have to say it has not and why not. That is truthful reporting, not buck-passing. If you want technical solutions to your problems, I am ready to provide that whenever you provide me with enough clues to go and do the troubleshooting. Please know that it is very difficult to do that in this medium because of the inability of the communicating parties to clarify information 'live'. However, we all try... myself and the other users here. If you don't want my help, that is fine. I will not respond to your requests. But please, don't interpet THIS as threatening information starvation. Finally, I see no problem in being "personally" offended by your post. You attacked me, not Nathan or other users. I cannot project my feelings on them. Therefore I remain "personally" offended by your accusations. Nevertheless, you are invited to continue participation in this topic. I can be "personally" offended and still do my job. My apologies to everyone else who has logged on here for technical support. I sincerely hope these events does not discourage anyone else from posting in this topic. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 39 Sun Mar 07, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 15:33 EST M.SHANNON & others If _Wally_ lives in an informatinal void in southeast Alaska, then I'm in another galaxy in northern interior Alaska, commonly called "The Bush". Only 45 people year around, and no roads to the outside world. 1. I believe Wally is correct, your postings are coming across as more personal than you probably feel. It is amazing how easy it is to select a particular set of words, thinking they are absolutely clear, and then suddenly realize that those word impart a totally different meaning to the readers around you. Other than having someone else read your messages before you post them, I know of no other way to avoid this possibility. 2. I have to agree that things that do not work should be fixed. Those that have been lurking here and in the Dataformer topic know of the results/problems I have had with creating IMG files. But Nathan and crew didn't write the program, just like you local car dealers don't build the cars they sell. 3. In a way, DMC/ISD is just like a waiter in a restaurant. It the meal isn't done or is wrong in some regard ( Calamus SL) then the person who ordered the meal (K.SPRINGER1, WALLY.W, Doug7, etc.) should express his discontentment to the waiter (Nathan, Lou, et all). The waiter (Nathan) takes the meal and/or complaint to the cook (DMC Germany) who should fix it. But what does the poor waiter do if the cook says buzz off!? My feeling, based on posts here, is the cook is saying buzz off in many cases. Why, I don't know. Maybe the German programmers are not convinced the problems are as important to the North American users as the NA users feel they are. This puts Nathan and any real waiter in a no win situation. He doesn't cook the meal, so he can't fix it for the customer (SL users). He can't make the cook too mad, other wise he has no meals to serve the customers. (ISD/DMC goes the way of the dodo bird!) Nathan, could you, and would you, supply an address for DMC in Germany, either here or individually via email, for the end user to use to voice complaints about the software directly to the company? If DMC Germany started getting mail from end users, in addition to your requests, maybe they would view the situation differently and make some changes. Don't everyone get mad at me, now. :-) After all, I've suffered unknow and indescribable effect from the Northern Lights for the last 9 1/2 years! And Wally, I suspect that only those who have been in and around the military is going to know what "22 and a wakeup" means. :-) Ken S. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 40 Sun Mar 07, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 17:13 EST To those who may feel that DMC has not met your expectations, please listen. Most programmers would agree that debugging is a long and difficult process. The time needed to do this should not be construed as apathy. Perhaps you have a false impression of the overall stability of the program - a stability that has definitely increased in each FREE update and in conjunction with our collective learning experiences with this powerful program. It is all too easy to focus on the few items that are problematic and forget all about the stuff that does work excellently. Personally (there's that word again) I get quite tired of these accusations. I have witnessed the efforts and expense that Nathan has undertaken to get this program fully functional. I know that effort will continue. I also know that there are some problems which cannot be explained at this time and some that have been fixed. For example, - Stephen and I reported the same crashes with the BRUSH module, yet I watched Mario _and_ Nathan use it for hours without a crash on a loaded system and a stripped system, respectively. I subsequently disabled several CPX files, and have not had a crash since. Stephen says he does not use the Control Panel. - Today I spent another three hours chasing down Doug's report on the Dataformer IMG file problem he is having. Yet I have easily created the files he wants with a virtually identical hardware and software configuration. We have the same module versions and use the same computer. - A year ago people reported frequent crashes in SL. Then we discovered the function of system memory in the System Parameters modules and most of those crashes stopped. - We had early reports of non-WYSIWYG display in SL and, thanks to Neil Roughley, discovered how to use the screen resolution settings in System Parameters to get a true WYSIWYG. - There was an early bug in the Document Converter that increased all parameter settings one hundredfold. A manual fix was provided and the next update of the Document Converter was upgraded to automatically compensate for the different measurement systems in 1.09N. - Master pages originally failed to hold blank text frames so that page numbering could not be installed on the master page. That was fixed in the first update. - A number of repeatable problems were reporting in PKS. Nathan spent a week in Germany last month and a new version is now undergoing beta testing. - Suggestions were made regarding the Text module. A new text module is being written and will arrive for beta testing soon. I could take the time to document _all_ the things that have been discovered, fixed, reported, etc. but I won't. I have to get back to updating my fix list, writing documentation for new modules, checking Stephen's STYLE TIP 2, and trying to solve Doug's problem. I hope people won't mind if I don't continue responding to this thread. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 41 Sun Mar 07, 1993 F.LOWE1 [FRANK LOWE] at 17:32 EST LOU I cannot seem to delete unwanted fonts from the TEXT STYLE MODULE. I delete all fonts except for my CG TIMES font. I then save system setup; exit SL; Run SL again and Hey Presto all my unwanted fonts are back in the same place. Now, just to be smart, I examined the SET file but it confirmed that I had done everything correctly (me thinks) because there was only 1 font in there and that was my CG TIMES font. Investigating further I changed a few other parameters in the TEXT STYLE MODULE, e.g. I made underlining thicker; and a few other minor changes; saved them in the SET file as per normal but, nothing new seemed to happen on re- loading SL. My copy of SL is dated 28.08.92. My Text style list "CALAMUS.CSL" only contains 1 font and it is CG TIMES. Lou, I have never had this problem before. Is it something to do with the fact that I am a year older since I bought SL or could it be a fault in my relatively new update of SL. Look forward to a reply. And stick with it old Pal, don't be put out by the Gentleman with an Irish name that seems to have an endless vocabulary of meaningless words. We users of SL need you, and use you, with not even a proper thank you now and again. THANKS LOU. (Frank, half Irish) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 42 Sun Mar 07, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 18:11 EST Wally, Nice post. SHOOOOORT! Wearing your FIGMO ribbon? Mike ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 43 Sun Mar 07, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 18:14 EST To Lou and DMC, I appriciate all you do for us a SL users. Dealing with tech support on a daily basis i have heard the word "Gee i don't know" more than once. Never have those words come from your keyboards. I hope that you continue in your endeavours to bring us a great program, and i hope that in all my posts you never get the feeling i am upset with the services you being me personally (there is that word again ;^> ). Looking forward to new and update modules (including an inproved text flow). Jim. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 44 Sun Mar 07, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 21:01 EST Frank, perhaps you did not save your Style List _before_ you Saved System Setup. That is why your underline styles, etc, did not reload. Think of it this way: load the fonts you want, define the styles you need using those fonts, save the style list with any *.CSL name, then SAVE SYSTEM SETUP. Even though your CALAMUS.SET file showed only the CGTIMES, when the defaulted style list loads, it brings in the additional fonts. Create a few different style lists, each with a few different fonts and load them in both REPLACE and MERGE modes and you will see all those fonts loading in. Thanks for the email and messages of appreciation folks. Not to worry... I really enjoy sharing with and learning from all of you. I am not going anywhere... unless Nathan unlocks this ball and chain :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 45 Sun Mar 07, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 23:02 EST Huh???... Opps... thought I was in category 18 for minute.:-) I think Walley pretty much covered everything nicely. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 46 Sun Mar 07, 1993 ISD [Mario] at 23:06 EST Frank, You can also try replacing the fonts loaded in SL whilst no document is loaded. Then save you set-up. Mario @ DMC Publishing ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 47 Mon Mar 08, 1993 M.SHANNON at 03:32 EST ShorTimer, Did you volunteer for that tour or were you drafted? Anyway I bet you feel better after that lengthy diatribe now don't you? Paragraph after paragraph after, well you've got the idea. See, you can feel like I do... I pay eight bucks an hour online as well, so don't shuck me OK. Imitation is the greatest compliment I hear. Time is money and shortly, when your feet hit the pavement and you can't rely on 3 squares and a pad you're gonna find out real quick how short your temper becomes when you are up against policy not persons. Unless you are one of the last of the entitlement babies, you're gonna remember I said that. How do I know? Six years active duty; Fleet Marine Corps. You must know that it's getting colder out here all the time; you can still re-up can't you? (...a little aside for personal history here gents, equal time all around? After all Wally and I are paying a premuium rate!) M.SHANNON Nathan, MOUNT may work wonderfully for others but for me it sits idle. Your post didn't respond to my question in that regard. Are you going to make me ask again? I assumed that any user and their "personality" is welcomed here as long as the posts were germane to the TOPIC, regardless of their level of contentment. Now it seems that there is a consensual level here that I was unaware of. I appreciate you encouragement of imput, critical or not. Regards M.SHANNON Lou, First, your equanimity in the face of my discontentment is disarming me. Second, dou you know who the teacher of the year was last year and the year before? Do you know where I would find their acceptance speeches perhaps? PLEASE RSVP, and now I'll get back into the kitchen... I hope this thread hasn't discouraged anyone either: that would leave just you and me. Oh what Happy Days! OK, you and Nahan and Mario and the others are within the beltway, me and some of the other users are outside it looking in wondering when our little problems are going to be resolved by those in power and in the know. They are admittedly little and aggravating and not conspiculous to you. But to US they are all we have between sucess and failure. We NEED the items fixed, DESPERATELY! That is why we are continually on line here, we have a vested interest in the successful performance of SL. You testers and the distributor are not alone in this desire so you see we are on the same team and we depend on YOU to do what we cannot do. When you don't or can't we have no other alternative than to express directly and personally to you, our disappointments and frustrations. When, nothing is forthcomming except otherwise information then you, being the pivotal and accessable agent of the principle, take all the heat as a matter of course. It's an unpleasant part of the job description. In short, "the breaks". We all take 'em on a dialy basis if we have to make important decisions on any level at all. So... Your updated post of what actions have been taken and what responses have occurred (and how YOU feel about that) puts a smile on MY face. Now, this I can relate to. Thanks for that post (191) Lou. I could use a weekly update and you would'nt hear a peep (hardly) out of me. Communication is the key to the general TOPIC audience: post specifics aside. Would'nt you agree? (I really need those speeches and I'll be really civil if I can find them, being unable to has caused me to become uniformly cantankerous.) M.SHANNON Ken, Thanks for the purview and translation. I agree, if we can't get to DMC indirectly then lets get tp them directly, in any case lets get some kind of action\response her to our little problems. This is getting rediculous, it seems we can speak to no one in any position of authority. Well meaning Distributor and beta-testers aside, we have no direct input. We are found lacking forthwith. Not a good feeling. Amen. M.SHANNON ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 48 Mon Mar 08, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 09:07 EST I have no choice but to smack Ken soundly. SMACK! ;-) In the countries of Canada, United States, Australia and New Zealand, I AM responsible for Calamus, period! That is my job. Although I did not write the program, I have complete responsibility for it. In other words, the buck stops here. As far as bug fixes and priorities, all I can repeat is that no one at DMC, here or in Germany, acts in a frivolous manner. There are logical reasons for anything and everything that we do. While we are not infallible, neither are we stupid. At the same time, I cannot or will not explain my every decision and action here. I am running a business and I will do so to the best of my ability. I can only hope that my ability is good enough to satisfy your needs. There are ramifications to every change. There is a chain affect on every fix or every bug. We will continue to update, upgrade and improve Calamus SL, improve existing modules, add new modules etc. the best we know how. To assist us in doing so I continue to encourage input from you all, please. Once I have that input, from you all and from my own people, I make the best decisions that I can on the global picture, informed decisions. Thank you for listening. Nathan Potechin - President - DMC Publishing ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 49 Mon Mar 08, 1993 J.HICKEY6 at 10:31 EST M.Shannon - Would you kindly use GENie mail to vent your anguish? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 50 Mon Mar 08, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 21:56 EST M.SHANNON, it would give US no greater pleasure than to have ALL of these things fixed too! No one is ducking the criticisms or bug reports. The issue here has been suggestion of "buck passing". I hope that issue can be laid to rest. I must ask you to clarify your comments about "teacher of the year". I would rather not risk misintrepreting your comment about acceptance speeches. What was your point, please? I am glad you liked message 191. I appreciate that. However, there are 16 archive files holding almost 3000 messages that provide help, tips and similar kinds of reponses. I think Wally was alluding to that material in his comment about how things have been handled here since the beginning. BTW, did you know that this TOPic 20 has been the busiest one in this RoundTable for over a year? Most of it was technical support. Take a look. BTW, do you have the USER to USER Tip files? J.HICKEY, you were message 200... must be time for another archive! M., make that 17 archives. Terry, Jim.... could you please 'wait' on this topic? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 51 Mon Mar 08, 1993 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 23:50 EST Lou, Well, I would catalog my traced files with GEM Cat, but once again, you have to buy a $100 module to save any pictures traced with SpeedLine. See, I bought Speedline to avoid having to buy any of the other tracing programs. Now I am going to have to put out just about the same amount of money to buy Dataformer as it costs to get Convector or others. You look at what Convector can do and to build a system with equivalent features (more or less) with SL would require buying SpeedLine($50), Vector Editor($100), and Dataformer($100). TOTAL: $250. Sure, Dataformer gives you some extra power and the Vector Editor allows colorizing elements of a picture. All I need though is to save my vector pictures (for right now). I don't need all the other goodies of Dataformer. So I would be paying an extra $100 to colorize elements of a vector picture with the Vector Editor. It just seems it would be easy enough to include a driver called CAL_CVG.CEV, which is what I thought the whole concept of the driver system was for. Mario, Yes, I am selecting different text frames. In fact, there is no way to get a text export dialog box without having a text frame selected, at least not that I have found. I have even tried text frames in different documents. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 52 Tue Mar 09, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 00:33 EST Nathan Oh, that stings! :-) I hope you my post didn't leave anyone with the impression that Nathan or anyone at DMC was or is acting irresponsibly. Based on what I have read, my impression is that Nathan and company have all responsibility for marketing and support, but that Nathan cannot go to or call Germany, and tell the programmer "this is broken, you will fix it", in a polite manner, of course. If you can do this then you have "complete" responsibilty. Otherwise, you may have total control for your area of responsibility, but not total control of the entire arena. It sounds as if some users are very frustrated with the response, or lack of response, of the programmers to fix the problems they have discovered. Perhaps if those that are fighting bugs knew what some of the priorities (goals) are, in a general manner of course, it would calm some feelings of being ignored. In my case, I usually don't know if it is the program that's broke, or me. The only problem I currently have that I believe is DMC related is the IMG file exportation. And since I am not the only one, there is some type of problem somewhere. But I am not depending on the program at this point in time for a living (although I wish I was ). I am also aware of the cause and effect potential of any fix. Just try to rig the old electrically gearbox driven landing gear on the Cessna 200/400 series aircraft. A seemingly harmless 1/2 turn of a threaded rod end in the right place can cause some very unpleasant results. I wasn't trying to incite anyone or to hurt any feelings, just trying to find a solution to the obvious unhappiness of some SL users here so we could get back to the very obvious goal of the topic - Support. I had asked about the possibility of getting a German address because of the possibility that the programmers were not really realizing how important these fixes are to a number of users here on GEnie. I must admit it would be nice to know what the immediate goals of the programmers are in this area, so those that depend on SL for a living can make better judgements of what they need to do for work arounds, jobs to avoid, promises not to make, etc. I don't think anyone wishes to know your daily schedule, just that bug so and so is the next one to be looked into by x number of programmers, or something. There could be a million things wrong with SL, and at my level of expertise, I wouldn't know the difference. So, I hope you weren't counting me as one of the unhappy.:-) Ken S. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 53 Tue Mar 09, 1993 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 07:02 EST Doug: >I, for one think that is ABSOLUTELY necessary that we expand support for each >other along this vein. > >... so let's now expand on the "operational" end >of this business. A "support network" for the _business_ of these tools. OKAY! Here's a thought: I would like to "share and compare" working layouts that have been created by others here. It would be very useful to build a library of layouts for, let's say, brouchures or flyers that one could use. Yes, I understand the implications of that, but if we were to join forces and and go to work consolidating the Calamite market people that are doing design work could save a considerable amount of time by not having to reinvent the wheel. It would also prove beneficial to perhaps have a cooperative "critque" service that would allow Calamus users to get feedback from others thus improving the quality of their work. This type of approach is seen in the MAc and IBM oriented publications in the form of makeovers and over the shoulder tutorials. I'd like to see some ground rules developed for such a forum here. I'm aware that everyone might not want to share their creative genus with the immediate world, however I'm confident the compitition in most folks geographical area by others using Calamus is very limited. A "Calamus Design Cooperative" would improve the things for the lot of us and foster skill development. I have begun toying with the idea of publishing a Calamus newsletter as previously discussed here. One of the focuses of such a newletter, if I was to publish one, would be just that. What do ours think? Let's discuss it.... -- Dave @ Binary Ink =============== On another note: I feel compelled to comment on the recent rash of messages that can only be labeled "bickering". Folks, we've GOT to get away from these personal attacks. IMHO Nathan et. al. have made a supreme effort to extend support of DMC products to levels that are rarely seen on any platform. When I read comments from such respected contributors as Mike Valent terming the discussion here a "soap opera" I begin to contemplate the demise of this outstanding support. We've are losing our focus here. The errosion of the cerebral discussions that this area has been noted for saddens me. The question, "Would you talk to these people this way on the phone?" IS valid. I understand the level of frustration some of you have experienced. I, too, have been there--but the inflamatory, personal, and public attacks that have recently become common are an impediment to this support. If you REALLY care about the platform, the product, and the people that you have decided to use be constructive. If you can't be constructive then simply being civil will do. Treat these PEOPLE as you'd like to be treated... THINK ABOUT IT. Cool off, then post! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 54 Tue Mar 09, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 08:14 EST Closer Ken ;-). I can, in fact, ask politely yet firmly that something be fixed. What I guess I failed to convey is that there are ramifications to every fix and there are priorities. There are 30,000 registered owners of Calamus, 30,000. Right now there are features being activated that should have been working a year ago but were not, for technical reasons. In order for Leader Tabs to work, for example, a serious re-write was required in the text module. The next version of Calamus will finally have Leader Tabs but this apparently simple thing took a year because of the consequences of just going in and doing this, to that, affected the other and brought the entire process to its knees. Got that? :-) When I jumped on an airplane a few weeks ago on 2 days notice and flew to Germany, I instigated some changes, I altered priorities and I got a great deal accomplished. In some cases, you will not appreciate the results of those changes for a year. In others, the very next update to SL will show serious strides. Calamus SL is a sophisticated program. Consider millions of individula pieces that must all fit together as perfectly as possible and then picture the domino affect. Dave ... There has been a great many requests for a newsletter. The concept was well received. I wish I had more time to devote to it. I will get back to you in mail as soon as I can on this. Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 55 Tue Mar 09, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 08:25 EST Hmmm, it just occured to me that so many of us use different commands from within the bulletin board, with the various communication packages or Aladdin. I'm not sure, in every case, that when a new topic is started in Category 16, that your term program picks up on that fact. Please type TOPic if you are in here manually and whatever Aladdin requires if not. We have quite a fair number of new topics from a few months ago including a brand new one started by Steve Blackburn just last week. If anyone requires more specific help in this regard, please leave me email and I will be happy to teach you GEnie navigation. Nathan ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 56 Wed Mar 10, 1993 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 02:29 EST DMC, I know this non-technical posting doesn't involve just you, but I just passed through a bunch of messages and I have yet to see a cure for my exporting CTD. Did I miss it? I have stripped my system and no go. Is there something I should set with TOS 2.05? Does it work with 2.05? Did the chicken come first or the egg? :-) BTW, I load one of my master pages and I get a dialog box that is in German. Can ya tell me what it is saying? Erzeuge Einzelseiten: Das einzufgende Dokument enthlt Doppelseiten: soll es wirklich in Einzelseiten umgewandelt werden? I answer JA. The letters in <> are letters with the two periods above them. - Kyle A. Miller San Antonio, Texas March 9, 1993 - 1:02:06 am ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 57 Wed Mar 10, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 10:36 EST Kyle Please select a text frame, go to export, load the CTD.CXT driver and click on EXECUTE. A dialog box will appear allowing you to name the file. Name it, click on OK and it will save it. IS this the steps that you followed and if so, exactly what happened? I do not have a machine here using TOS 2.05 but I personally use TOS 2.06 daily. On the German language thing, it basically says that you have tried to put a single page format into a double page format or vice versa. However, more important to me, is how come we missed a German message! Sigh. I'll see if I can find it and have it translated properly in future. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Kyle, if possible, please capture that screen and send it to me. Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 58 Wed Mar 10, 1993 J.KUDRON [Jim~ST Sysop] at 10:48 EST Messages #2-151 have been archived and are in the library-File #28013. CALSL_17.ARC 2Feb93 to 3Mar93. Jim Kudron 10Mar93 ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 59 Wed Mar 10, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 17:11 EST Thanks Jim. I hope you read them thoroughly. You will be tested in the morning. ;-) Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 60 Wed Mar 10, 1993 J.KUDRON [Jim~ST Sysop] at 19:14 EST Sheese...Just what I need-more pressure! Now where did I put those cheat- sheets??? Jim Kudron 10Mar93 19:07:42 ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 61 Wed Mar 10, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 21:45 EST Kyle, I thought I answered your post about CTD. I have not had any problems saving the CTD file from the text frame and reimporting the file into a new text frame... or the same frame. Were you trying to export from the PKS editor, perchance, as in 1.09N fashion? The German dialog you quoted occurs when converting a page format from single to double-side, or vice versa. This situation is covered in a special section of [5.4.1.5]. I wonder if you have the earlier version because I am sure this is fixed in the update. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 62 Wed Mar 10, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 23:54 EST Mike-Allen FIGMO. I think I've used that expression a few times. Cliff (Ashevillite) USAF Retired ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 63 Thu Mar 11, 1993 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 01:11 EST Nathan, I follow the steps just as you say. When I click on OK after typing in the file name, I get kicked back to the Export Drivers dialog box. I would give a screen shot of the German dialog box, but all the screen grabbers I have are accessories. I can't access my accessories when that dialog box is up. Is there a screen grabber that isn't an ACC? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 64 Thu Mar 11, 1993 S.SAMUELS [ORCA] at 02:52 EST Kyle, an addition to your double click tip is that you can also shift click several drivers and load 'em all at once. Both these 'tips' work with many, but not all, of the SL items. Mike... nice postmortem...er, post I mean! %^) Glad to here you R hear! Funny, no? Things may get more interesting B4 long, ...then again... Lou,....I don't mind! %^) You can only do so much, right? To everyone....I have a complaint for many of you in this RT: Your posts are becoming tooooooooooooo short! Don't you have anything to say? Can't you find a longer way to say it? Come on folks, open up!! < GG RR II NN > ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 65 Thu Mar 11, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 08:29 EST Kyle, I will email you a screen grabber that works of ALT-HELP when dialogs are open. Stephen, thanks for the 'brief' note. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 66 Thu Mar 11, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 08:53 EST Kyle ... what is the date of your Calamus SL program please? Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 67 Sat Mar 13, 1993 BHARTSHORNE at 01:09 EST Lou, sometimes when someone has thrown a stone at us it is difficult to see several people trying to restrain them. I personally really fail to how the personal diatribes and demands being made to or of you and Nathan will improve SL. I tend to lurk in the background here, but I have so greatly appreciated the support and assistance I have gotten from you, Nathan, Mario, Orca and others even when you weren't aware I was getting it. While I can understand the frustration of not having a particular feature work, what I have accomplished with SL has gotten such accolades here and SL is now so steady for me, and the support of you guys is so great-it is has been a real blessing (not to mention bought me a few meals). This is a very long winded way (I'm a teacher too! :.)) of saying-the program, modules and support are terrific-keep the faith, and don't let a few who will never be satisified throw you... Bill ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 68 Sat Mar 13, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 01:24 EST Hi Bill. It's been a while since you posted but I remember that you are using the 500C for color output. Did you ever send some of your samples up to DMC Publishing? And thanks for the comments... on behalf of Nathan, Mario, and the rest of the SL gang. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 69 Sat Mar 13, 1993 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 16:13 EST >ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 21:45 EST > >Kyle, I thought I answered your post about CTD. I have not had any problems >saving the CTD file from the text frame and reimporting the file into a new >text frame... or the same frame. Were you trying to export from the PKS >editor, perchance, as in 1.09N fashion? Lou, saying that you can export CTD is not answering my problem. I happy it works for you, but it does nothing for me. How can you ask that last question? I wrote many messages telling exactly what I have done, some addressed to you I believe. One was a 1, 2, 3, ...) of what I am doing. Did you read it? My version of SL is 28.08.92. BTW, we might be carrying this conversation to CompuServe pretty soon. In fact, if you reply to this message, I might not receive it. I am moving to CompuServe since it is more user friendly to high speed modem users (cheaper per hour and its speed is really 9600, not this GEnie pseudo 9600. Besides, my GEnie node keeps locking up and GEnie keeps saying that can't fix because its intermittent. I work on t-comm circuits for USAF. I can fix intermittent problems simply by sticking a monitoring device in the circuit. Oh well.. They give exuses, and I move on.), plus I can't afford both services. - Kyle A. Miller San Antonio, Texas March 13, 1993 - 3:01:52 pm ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 70 Sat Mar 13, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 18:08 EST Kyle, I hope you are still here to read this reply. I don't do any support work on other services. I Message 61 I was simply saying that I cannot replicate the problem you are having. I asked if you were trying to export the CTD file from inside the PKS editor because I cannot find the problem you are describing. Yes, I know that my success with the driver is not helping you fix your problem, but I have made several suggestions and asked several questions. Even Mario and Nathan posted in response. Now it seems to me there are some other possibilities that can be explored. I will email you my CAL_CTD.CXT driver along with SNAPIT.PRG (to take the screen shots Nathan requested). As I see you have mentioned having an earlier driver (16.6.92), this may be the problem although I remember exporting CTD files with the very first release version of SL a year ago. Another possibility is that you have saved a path for TEXT that no longer exists. Please recheck in your System Paths option. If the new driver does not solve the problem, I would ask you to upload your document to Library 30 or 43. I will download it and check if the problem may be an internal corruption of the particular file. Has anyone else had a problem exporting a CTD file from a text frame? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 71 Sat Mar 13, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 22:35 EST What exactly is a binding contrack? Could you explain it a bit further. You can reply in Topic #27 if you want... Dave, A library of form parts, macros, master pages etc. would be a gret idea. It probably hasn't happened because no one ever mentioned it and perhaps a lot of people didn't think their stuff was good enough. I think it would be great to have a library (I plan to catalog it like my fonts) that you could go through and pick out PIECES of a puzzle and plug them into various projects. It would make things a lot easier. P.S. Does anyone know how to MARK a topic so that all new mail is automaticaly captured through Aladin. At the moment I have to manualy mark each topic I want to read. Thanks, Steve Blackburn AtariUser Magazine ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 72 Sun Mar 14, 1993 N.ROUGHLEY ['Speaking'] at 05:19 EST Kyle, I experienced a problem with exporting text as .CTD, much like you described. Everytime I would be brought back to the export menu, as if some poltergeist had invaded the program. It ended up to be Eric Rosenquist's Idle 2.2 (a screen blanker accessory). With this .ACC present, .CTD export simply won't work. Strange, huh? Now I know you've stated that your system is 'clean', but is there any chance you have a little TSR or .ACC present? If Idle causes this odd menu affect, I'm sure others could too. << Neil >> ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 73 Sun Mar 14, 1993 N.ROUGHLEY ['Speaking'] at 05:42 EST I should clarify that when I say "brought back to the export menu", I mean after typing in the file name in SL's selector, instead of saving to disk (exporting), I'm returned to the export menu. No way will SL actually save .CTD when Idle is present. Talk about an odd clash. << Neil >> ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 74 Sun Mar 14, 1993 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 06:54 EST DMC, I guess I might just keep GEnie for Basic services and a mail box. My main service will be CIS though. If you or anyone wants to contact me on CIS, my user ID is 71603,1303. Hopefully I set-up QuickCIS right and am ready to receive DMC messages, section #17? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 75 Sun Mar 14, 1993 WALLY.W [ _Wally_ ] at 08:07 EST Howdy, Steve, To MARk a Topic on GEnie, you simply type: MAR 20 (say, for this Topic) in the proper Category. If you have a Topic list you can access it through the Mark-Reply OldTopics menu option and MARk your favorite Topics there. Then set your AutoPass options to ALL NEW MARKED MESSAGES for the appropriate days, or use the RAM NOR option from the Get Messages menu item. You only have to MARk your Topics once (unless some unusually heavy Topic maintenance is performed and your MARks get messed up). GEnie remembers your MARked Topics for Aladdin (even though the Topic List may not reflect this fact). Best regards, Wally ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 76 Sun Mar 14, 1993 A.VALENT [Mike] at 08:45 EST Stephen, I'm still around. Lately have been checking GEnie only a couple of times a week - kinda like occasionally tuning into a soap opera whose pace has gotten so slow you can't stand to watch it every day... but you still want to see if Jack's reaction when his mistress finally gives birth (if she's ACTUALLY pregnant this time) to that baby that we know is going to look just like his most bitter rival, Steve J. Like my mama used to say, "Write when you find work." For the last month I've been spending every available moment upgrading and correcting the GER2ENG19 translation dictionary to give us a practical tool that *will* successfully translate all those German freeware/shareware docs that we never could read. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 77 Sun Mar 14, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 09:00 EST Bill ... Thank you. Kyle ... I am sorry to hear of your unfortunate experiences here. I think Neil just made an excellent suggestion (thanks Neil). Please try it. As far as Compuserve is concerned, all I can say is that if you expect to find Calamus support there that exists here, you will be sadly disappointed. I say this not because of anything less that DMC does, (which is true) but because there are currently TWO active posters on CIS in the Calamus area, with maybe a half a dozen lurkers, vs 1500 right here in our category on GEnie. I'm very serious. I check in on Compuserve regularly to support my customers there. No one else from DMC does so as the time cannot be justified currently. There is NO User to User, NO Lou, NO Mario, NO Stephen, Mike, Neil, Bob, Joey, Daniel etc etc etc.. And this makes a major difference. So while I understand your frustration, I want to make it clear that as far as Calamus is concerned, please re-consider your decision. Wally explained marking topics quite handily (thanks Wally). :-) Mike ... Hmmm, I'd love to test out your improvements to that GER2ENG19 translation dictionary. ;-) Sincerely Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 78 Sun Mar 14, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 10:43 EST Kyle, Good luck, and drop in and visit us sometime. Toodles! :-) Doug7 ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 79 Sun Mar 14, 1993 S.SAMUELS [ORCA] at 20:03 EST Great idea Mike! sher gut! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 80 Mon Mar 15, 1993 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 02:29 EST For those interested, I decided to keep my GEnie account, but only for the mail services and the Basic Services. Occasionally, if I am in an emergency or something, I will pop in. Otherwise, I'll be CIS. - Kyle A. Miller GEnie: K.Miller69 CIS: 71603,1303 ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 81 Tue Mar 16, 1993 D.SENSUI at 04:52 EST Help! Now things are getting really frustrating! First my Calamus document gets scrambled somehow and in the process of rebuilding the doc from scratch, now I can't find the command to set margins, even though the user manual clearly states that it can be controlled: the trick is that nobody bothers to tell you how!!! Anyone got any answers? This is getting really frustrating when the program crashes after importing text from WordPerfect, mysteriously fails to reload a doc -- even the backup is screwy -- and now I can't do something that used to be implemented in the old Calamus. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Dean. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 82 Tue Mar 16, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 10:07 EST Help's on the way, Dean :-) First of all, if both the CDK and BAK file are 'screwy' then I suspect an internal corruption. I would recommend you export all your text using the CAL_CTD.CXT driver to a separate .CTD file. Next, create a new document with the same number of pages/page size, etc. Go to the original and cut out all the graphics (group them from each page) and repast in the new document. Then recreate the text frames. (Hint: if the text frames are piped and the are the same size and position on each page, place the first frame on page one, insert the Piping from Previous and Piping to Next Page icons, then Insert Empty Pages using the COPY LAYOUT from pge 1 to 1 feature). Finally, import your CTD text file and adjust your layout as needed. Regarding the margins: do you mean text margins as set in the text rulers? or the guidelines for your page? If it is guidelines, you can set them using the Multiple Guidelines function [5.5.4.11] or Grid Settings [5.5.4.12]. You can also lay down some individual guidelines [5.5.4.1 and 5.5.4.2] If you are talking about text margins, see the Text Ruler command group [5.6.3]. To move the margin flags or the indent flags, you must deselect all three icons in the top group (Tab, Leader Tab, Delete Tab). Now left-click the text ruler and then click-and-drag the desired flag to its new position. You can also edit margin positions inside the PKS editor. Open the editor and double click on the [R] or [Ruler] button. When the dialog appears, you can set margins, indents, justification, measurment system, etc. This is also covered in [6.4.2.7]. There are also a couple of good USER files in the library to help: 23210 RULERS_4.ARC and 27804 STICKY.LZH. I hope this helps. Please let me know if there is anything else you need. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 84 Wed Mar 17, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 16:18 EST We received a tecnical support question in mail, which, as you all know, is NOT ALLOWED. ;-) I refuse to repeat answers to good questions over and over again when I can post them once here for us all to share. One of our customers encountered a problem merging documents with multiple pages and managed to discover a GERMAN dialog box. ARGHH!! He asked what was what and I am posting the reply here just in case it is of interest. When you are working in a double sided document with an odd number of pages (3, 5 etc..) and you attempt to merge another odd numbered double page document you will get the following message: Doppelseiten konflikt! Die Abfolge von linken und rechten Seiten wird durch diese Operation gest rt. Soll die links-rechts Lage der Seiten 4bis 9 verandert oder sollen Leerseiten eingef gt werden? Ver ndern = Adapt/Change Leerseiten = add/insert empty page Abbruch = Cancel This message indicates that the merged document is causing a format error and it is asking whether the merged document should be adapted to the existing documents format, change the orientation of the right pages to left pages and left pages to right or add an empty page between the existing and merged documents. -- When you are working in single page format and you merge a double page document you will get the following message: Erzeuge Einzelseiten: Das einzuf gende Document enth lt Doppelseiten: Soll es wirklich in Einzelseiten umgewandelt werden? JA = Yes/Ok Abbruch = Cancel This message indicates that the merged document is in double page format and is asking if you want to change it to single page format or cancel the operation. Hope these translations help. -- Basically, what is described above is a situation where we all must accept limitations on what can be merged with what. Now that the dialog boxes are shown here in English I hope that it will explain the ramifications. Now to find them in the master and make them English in the first place. ;-( Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 85 Wed Mar 17, 1993 P.DUBE [Elan Soft] at 18:25 EST I experienced some problems using my SLM804. It will paper-jam every time I print using the paper tray. In manual feed, I have no problems. In fact, the paper simply stop during the print process before it comes to the drum; the paper is not really jammed: it does seem to be... The question is: has anybody ever had that problem? Does my printer need a complete checkup? Can the paper be the problem? (I did not have the time to test with other paper types). Paul @ Elan ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 86 Wed Mar 17, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 18:55 EST I might be wrong but try this, turn your paper over. The reason I mention this is because it has happened to me a couple of times and when I turned the paper over, it worked. Someone told me that laser paper has one good side and "the" other side. Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 87 Thu Mar 18, 1993 D.SENSUI at 01:31 EST Lou... Thanks for the help... it worked! Got the margins to do what I needed it to do. Nathan... thanks for the assistance offer. I ended up rebuilding the document from scratch. Fortunately I still had the text saved as a WordPerfect document. I have to check to see what drivers and version of Calamus I have, but it's the first release of SL. Back to work... Dean. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 88 Thu Mar 18, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 09:44 EST Dean, I suggest you upgrade to the August 92 version. Did you get the newsletter last summer? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 89 Thu Mar 18, 1993 MPMONTGOMERY at 18:52 EST Nathan Do you have any news about a New Release of SL. The printer drivers You furnished by Email for my new HP4 Laser work just great. Now if I just had leader tabs...... Thanks -s -s ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 90 Thu Mar 18, 1993 BHARTSHORNE at 21:04 EST Lou, would it still be of any benefit to send those documents to DMC? The final copies are put out by a "professional copier" if you are referring to my school newletter. IF you are referring to the problems I had with the color output from the 500C it was corrected in the Aug. release, but if you think they will benefit anyone I will be glad to send them (or help in developing the driver?) Bill PS the reason the newsletter is sent out for copying is that the school does not have a color copier and I am not about to run 550 copies on my Deskjet! :.) Bill ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 91 Thu Mar 18, 1993 BHARTSHORNE at 21:08 EST Lou or Nathan, does the driver for the Laserjet 4 use the 600 dpi mode? Has anyone corrected the driver for the Laserjet 3 that incorrectly offsets a page (screws the margins) I have authomatically learned how to get the correct the page before it is sent but it would be easier if the driver did it- just wondering-thanks ahead for any help Bill Hartshorne ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 92 Thu Mar 18, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 22:40 EST Yes, the HP IV driver uses the 600 dpi engine Bill. I don't know the answer re: the LJIII. Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 93 Thu Mar 18, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 22:51 EST Bill, DMC keeps a sample file and so do I. If you have originals of your work with the 500C, I do think it would be most interesting. We have, of course, beta tested the drivers and run lots of our stuff through, but it is real nice to have stuff from the end users on file. As for the HP4 driver, it prints incredible 600 dpi. I've seen it firsthand and I am saving my pennies. Anyone want to buy my trusty 804? On the LJ3, I would have to check with other users. I have a bunch of drivers I am checking out right now. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 94 Thu Mar 18, 1993 ISD [Mario] at 23:41 EST Cliff, you are half right about a good side to Laser Paper ... this is the case only when using some of the premium coated stocks such as Hammermill Laser Plus etc. Hope this helps. Mario @ DMC Publishing ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 95 Fri Mar 19, 1993 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 02:27 EST Nathan, Well, you ain't kiddin about the DMC business on CIS. There is NONE! There are other people. I can't lose my support, especially when I have so many questions. Ugh! Why does Atari move to CIS? Oh well... someone must be getting a good deal. I will stick around here in the DMC area for a bit longer. - Kyle A. Miller San Antonio, Texas March 19, 1993 - 12:35:20 am ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 96 Fri Mar 19, 1993 S.SAMUELS [ORCA] at 03:52 EST Paul,...about the SLM paper problem. Yes, I have that on one of the printers that I use. I've noticed it gets better when the tray is fuller....I'm suspecting the springs in the tray going soft at this point. I've also noticed that if it repeatedly jams, running a few sheets in manualy mode seem to 'prime the pump' and then it works from the tray for quited a while. Good luck. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 97 Fri Mar 19, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 11:14 EST Kyle ... What were you trying to say? 4-5 years ago there were valid reasons that us Atari-type people started congregating on GEnie. The main reason was price ;-), the almost as good reason was Darlah who did an incredible job at asking Atari developers to come to GEnie, making them welcome when they got here and generally helping everyone out. I opened a business account on GEnie and Compuserve at the same time, all those years ago. I logged on daily to both services to support my products BUT more and more the customers were on GEnie until the disparity was so ridiculous that the very level of support we enjoy here could not be duplicated on Compuserve because it is based upon the large number of Calamus people that are here! Doing a directory of files in our library 30 here speaks for itself. The U2U files have been downloaded THOUSANDS of times already etc.. Besides the fact that Calamus people are right here in the Atari RT on GEnie at a percentage of maybe 200-1 vs Compuserve or Delphi, almost the same statistic holds true for all Atari types. That said, WHY would Atari want to switch to any other service? Welcome back. ;-) Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 98 Fri Mar 19, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 19:42 EST If your having trouble with your SLM you might try cleaning it really good. Especially the large rubber half wheels that grab the paper. You might also try extending the springs a little bit in the paper tray. I'm not a tech so do it at your own risk.:-) Cleaning the drive wheels usually fix's the problem though. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 99 Fri Mar 19, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 22:46 EST Paul, or whoever it was :-) When cleaning those paper feed wheels and cams, do not use alchohol on ANY (black or red rubber) parts. The alchohol will dry the rubber out, and then it won't have ANY "stiction" at all. Instead, use a weak solution of some bio- degradable solvent like Simple Green. Try cleaning the "lift cams" (for lack of better knowledge ;-) above the tray towards the front, and then the entire path up to the aluminum ribbed section. Make sure that the little plastic paper-position arm (located in the paper path to the left of the two-roller set) swings freely and is not broken off. Doug7 ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 100 Sat Mar 20, 1993 F.LOWE1 [FRANK LOWE] at 10:24 EST Lou Wow! This is my second question this month. I use SL at home but find that in my office our two and a half meg machine is just inadequate memory wise to handle SL. Therefore I have to resort to using Calamus 1.09. My problem is that I don't know how to load an SL file from home into my 1.09 at work. The reverse is OK due to the built in SL import function of 1.09 files, but as yet I have not found an SL to 1.09 conversion. The answer is simple!! right? and I am just not aware. Help. FRANK IN VANCOUVER ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 101 Sat Mar 20, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 12:31 EST Frank, the simple answer is that you cannot load a Calamus SL CDK into 1.09N. The file information is too complex for 1.09N. I suppose someone could program a file stripper that takes an SL CDK back to 1.09N format, but so far I have not heard of one. Going from 1.09N to SL is no problem if you have the Document Converter module loaded. It was updated in August to fix the conflict in measurement systems. As for your office system... if you are stymied by the 2.5 megs RAM, simply turn on the Virtual Memory. This will surely slow you down, but you will be able to load and run the SL program and files. Make sure you select a partition with lots of free space... better still if the partition is defragmented. Since Virtual Memory reads and writes constantly to the hard drive, it is essential that lots of unfragmented space is available on the HD. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 102 Sat Mar 20, 1993 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 13:55 EST Nathan, I assume you are talking about me when you refer to subject of German dialog boxes. I DID ask you to answer what the heck they said on THIS message base. You replied and asked me to E-MAIL you pictures of the box (at that time I only knew of one of those boxes). When I sent you mail, I mentioned that I found another German dialog box and that it was inside the ZIP file I sent you. I would have never been in the E-Mail section of GEnie if you didn't ask me to be there. So, yes, I did not try to use the E-Mail system to get an answer. YOU asked me to be there and I showed up. Sorry if I tried to help... ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 103 Sat Mar 20, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 14:57 EST Kyle ... Thanks for helping. And no, every now and then I make an effort to publicly post, reminding people that customer support is handled in this cat. Please don't take it personally. I get DOZENS of email daily asking customer support questions and I ALWAYS refer them here, or I'd never leave email and never get anything accomplished. :-) I hate duplicating effort which is why the BB makes so much sense in terms of customer support. Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 104 Sun Mar 21, 1993 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 16:51 EST Nathan, From what I heard, the big "Atari run" here on GEnie took place after Atari announced its deal with GEnie. All I know is that if GEnie is doing so well, I wonder how long it will be before the hardware is upgraded. And the GEnie FAST protocol? They gave us a survey at least a year ago asking how GEnie could improve. The only thing I have seen to come out of that survey was the addition of the online game program where you can buy packets of time. That does me a lot of good. CIS has recently revamped their pricing structure and they are a good deal now. I wonder if GEnie is watching and will adjust to CIS's move. At least GEnie has more BASIC areas and a lot of interesting people. Oh well, I am back, but I stay limited to the DMC area and *Basic services by choice. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 105 Sun Mar 21, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 17:06 EST You heard wrong Kyle. ;-) GEnie was firmly established as the online leader for us Atari types maybe two years before Atari and GEnie finalized their relationship. I was there. ;-) I cannot speak for GEnie in terms of pricing and performance. I can say that the overall performance on GEnie is definitely improving noticeably from times past. As long as you are in DMC and basic, I can't complain. ;-) Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 106 Mon Mar 22, 1993 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 02:20 EST Nathan, Ok Nathan... It just sounded like I was getting blamed for talking with you through GEnie Mail. The whole thing confused me. Ok, done deal. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 107 Mon Mar 22, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 07:30 EST Kyle, we would all like a faster GEnie. In the meantime, what is the point of using a different service if you cannot get the tech support you want? Mathematically speaking - faster x no support = wasted time at higher speeds :-) Speaking of support, are you still working on an update of the CAL_FEAT.TXT file? I have something sitting on my E:\ drive but I am not sure if it was ready for release. I have to give Nathan another summary of USER to USER points and I would like to credit you if it is due. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 108 Mon Mar 22, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 10:26 EST Anyone... Does anyone have a suggestion as to speeding up SL. How should the settings within SL be set to give you the optimum speed? What should be cached, what size should the buffers be and do on...Sort of like fine tuning SL so that It works at optimum speed? What fonts look best (for body copy) when creating a newsletter? It has to be something that doesn't destroy the "WHITE SPACE" of the piece. Hopefully one that is available here on Genie. A question: How do people here catalog their fonts? I have a page that holds 4 fonts with different sizes of each font available to view. I've used 1.09n up to now, would it be easier to do it with SL by changing TEXT STYLE LISTS? Thanks....Steve (just 3 of a thousand questions forya) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 109 Mon Mar 22, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 18:47 EST Steve, first of all I would suggest the DEFAULTS.LZH for general setup work. Secondly, I would suggest a Fast Tech accelerator board for speed! Jim may have a few T25's left. I have one on my Mega 4 and it is nearly as fast as my TT. If I sold my T25, I would buy a Tiny Turbo030 (40Mhz). Among the less expensive options: turn off the Virtual Memory, increase the ST System Memory to 128000 bytes, turn ON your Raster Graphic and Vector Graphic caches since they take the longest to redraw when you change magnification views. For even faster work, make frame contents invisible for everything you are not working on. Then your redraws are minimized. And if that is not fast enough, use the Macro Recorder to automatically turn frame displays on and off... this will save more mouse clicks getting to those command groups. Your question about body text is a matter of taste. Personally, I like the Garamond and Century Schoolbook fonts better than the universally known Times. DMC had a great font promotion going. I wonder if it is still active? If you want to guarantee white space, use ample line spacing... more than the 2 pts that is the default. And yes... the faster way to produce font catalog pages is to replace an old font with a new one. If you have SL, get S.SAMUELS file called DASHEETS.LZH. It was made for the purpose you have in mind. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 110 Mon Mar 22, 1993 M.DEVENEAU [M.D.] at 23:27 EST Help..... I have a question and I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask it but here it is anyway. I'm having problems centering text. I highlight the text go to the Text Justification table, click on center text, and nothing happens. Also I tried to export a raster graphic and when the export window came open, there was nothing in it. I tried loading GEMIMG but it came back with the reply "not the proper version" or something like that. It would load the CVG format but I wanted the graphic to be a .IMG file. Any help would be appreciated. Also let me know if this is the correct place to ask this. This is my first time using aladin. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 111 Tue Mar 23, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 00:14 EST M.D. Welcome to GEnie! :^> If you are changing text by highlighting it, you must click on centering, and then on the paste ruler icon. If the text you are changing has a ruler of its own you can just select the ruler, select centering, and right click to perform the change. As for the "not proper version" message Nathan or Lou will have to answer that. Are you using the August release of SL? Jim. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 112 Tue Mar 23, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 00:32 EST Hi M.D. You a doctor or something . OK, to center text you mark the block, then select the centering icon and then click the Insert Ruler icon. When the Cursor or Block? dialog appears, select Block. To export a raster graphic, you have to load a driver first. Click the LOAD button and select an export driver. The GEMIMG.CER does not work. You can export TIF and CRD (Calamus Raster Document). And yes, this is the right place. Welcome to GEnie. You're doing fine. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 113 Tue Mar 23, 1993 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 02:52 EST Lou, Yes, I know what you mean about the faster and no support. I thought I would try CIS out because I had a $15 certificate with my new modem. I will probably cancel it eventually. CAL_FEAT.TXT is almost ready. I remember you wanted me to add Calamus S to it. There are only a few differences. I had the file that told the differences, but I can't find it right now. I might have to D/L it again. Steve, I use FONTVIEW.ARC from Cherry Fonts. I started with it long ago and have built a large catalog. If you want to look at it, it is file #19200. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 114 Wed Mar 24, 1993 P.DUBE [Elan Soft] at 18:15 EST Regarding the paper jam problem on my SLM804... I tried cleaning the printer... it did not work. The paper seems to load itself correctly in the printer, but it jams just before the edge of paper comes to the drum. Anybody have an idea? Paul @ Elan ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 115 Thu Mar 25, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 07:05 EST Whenever I've had a paper jam, it was always caused by the paper getting stuck on something because the paper itself was crumpled in some way. All I can suggest is that you check everything you can possibly check in the path looking for a small obstruction, a foreign element that should not be present. Is it possible that your feeding mechanism is not feeding correctly? Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 116 Thu Mar 25, 1993 D.HARRIS8 at 18:48 EST It sounds strange, but my SLM804 starting jamming the first 3 sheets I tried to print as soon as I started using my S upgrade. Every time I turn it on, it will jam the first 2 or 3 sheets out of the paper tray, then it works from then on. I've been trying to get around it by hand {vG ] A# -P nY 9 [v ivy 4 B /w {j2 Xi know if it would do it with anything else, as Calamus is the only thing I use for printing. Coincidence maybe. I don't know. I just put up with it. I've tried cleaning, and it helps, but then starts it again the next time I turn it on. Don ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 117 Thu Mar 25, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 22:11 EST What? Don, print with 1.09N and tell me if it works please. I can't think of any reason that Calamus S would affect your printer in this manner. Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 119 Fri Mar 26, 1993 D.HARRIS8 at 21:32 EST I'll have to pull out the floppies. I don't usually keep an old version of software on the drive when I update. I'll check it. Don ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 120 Sun Mar 28, 1993 M.DEVENEAU [M.D.] at 01:15 EST Lou, I'll give it a try. Thanks. :-) Any idea as to when or if there will be a working GEMIMG.CER?? Thanks again! Michael ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 121 Sun Mar 28, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 10:31 EST Michael, the GEMIMG.CER remains on the fix list at this time. In the meantime, Dataformer Raster will export IMG and a number of other bitmap formats with no trouble. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 122 Sun Mar 28, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 15:29 EST ST.LOU >T25's-I have one on my Mega 4 and it is nearly as fast as my >TT. If I sold my T25, I would buy a Tiny Turbo030 (40Mhz). > I have the T-25 in my Mega4. I really like my system, I just wish I had a little more speed for redraws and a larger monitor...but hey, we're always wishing for something arn't we. >And if that is not fast enough, use the Macro Recorder to >automatically turn frame displays on and off... this will save more >mouse clicks getting to those command groups. > Could you explain that a little furthur, I don't quite understand how you would turn on/off the frames. Also, is there a way to move around the second set of icons just below the module icons? P.DUBE > Regarding the paper jam problem on my SLM804... I tried cleaning the >printer... it did not work. The paper seems to load itself correctly in the >printer, but it jams just before the edge of paper comes to the drum. I've had a somewhat similar problem with my SLAMER. If the paper tray isn't about 75% full and the paper is sticking together for some reason, it happens to me also. I've gotten so quick with fixing and reprinting that it is just a small annoyance at present. The paper should be loose also, if it hangs up anywhere it might jam. ANYONE... * Do LEADER TABS work in SL? I don't seem to be having much luck. * Is there a way to cycle between different files that are loaded at the same time in SL? A macro or something, or is clicking on the screen the only way? * I've been trying to REFERENCE PREVIOUS/NEXT PAGE but nothing seems to happen. There's not much help in the manual really. How is it done? It's hard to beleive (for me) but I think I'm finally turning the corner of that learning curve. I can actually use SL now and I don't usually think of going back to 1.09 any longer. Feels great! Thanks....Steve ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 123 Sun Mar 28, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 17:39 EST The learning curve is daunting but you are nearing a comfort level Steve, so congratulations on sticking with it this far. Your questions: How to use the Macro Recorder to turn frames on and off? Find the functions to make frame contents visible/invisible. These are in the frame display command group. Click on the Macro Recorder, then click off the raster and vector graphic frames. Click the Macro Recorder again and assign a keybinding. Use this keybinding to turn the display of your graphics frames on and off. This will save you from having to change modules, find the command group and click the individual graphic frame icons. The same keybinding will turn the display back on when you want to see the entire page. In the meantime your redraw times will be dramatically reduce. The other thing you can do is turn on the CACHES in the Miscellaneous Settings. Then, when you move around the page in the current zoom, you will not have to wait for redraws (unless you change magnification). Regarding Leader Tabs ... no, they are still inactive. DMC hopes to have a new Text module soon. Leader Tabs were certainly among the expected fixes. REFERENCE to Previous and Next Page should be used from within PKS. When you insert the control codes, you enter the number of the referenced page. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 124 Tue Mar 30, 1993 VORTEXT at 21:47 EST Now I KNOW people out there are using HotWire with SL, so someone try to clue me in on what might be happening. I picked up HotWire at Sacramento, put it on my system, (a TT with a 2/16 memory config) and when I try to run SL I get the following happenings - When I click the right mouse button I end up getting the External Modules dialogue box. Also, when I try to enter the text editor I get a wrong format message and then I need to hit the return key forever until I finally get into the text editor window. Anyone ever have anything like this happen to them? Boy this is weird. Daniel And if ya'll tell me it must be some sort of California VooDoo thing... ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 125 Tue Mar 30, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 23:00 EST To All, A couple questions. When cutting text to the clipboard why is the text not visible, or unreadable (TTmed)? I tried doing a search/replace on hyphens (e.g, hypen to em) i had the small upside down U in the search text, and the superscipted 3 in the replace text. When i told SL to proceed it told me i had no text in the search string. Why?...I just tried it again and it worked fine. Must be another SL mystery. (Think we could get Leonard Nimoy to do a weekly T.V. show finding SL mysteries?) :^) I had SL crash on me when i was moving the mouse. First time that has ever happened. I had saved the doc and just finished printing it when i went to close the doc it bombed (2 i think). Strange?! Jim. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 126 Tue Mar 30, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 23:16 EST Daniel ... I do not use Hotwire. Perhaps Stephen does? Or you might consider asking the Codeheads. Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 127 Tue Mar 30, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 23:43 EST Daniel, I can't find the post, but I recall six months ago hearing about incompatibility with Hotwire. Perhaps other users could comment if they are using Hotwire. As for your weird happenings, I would guess that Hotwire and Calamus are somehow trading keybindings.... the External Modules dialog comes up with F10... not the mouse button! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 128 Tue Mar 30, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 23:52 EST Jim, I can try two of those questions: The text cut to the clipboard is not shown as clearly as 1.09N. I don't know why but it does make it hard to keep track or what is there! Or did you mean it is invisible when you restore it? Perhaps you have your text cache on? Try it turned off. Regarding the search and replace error... it is a bug in SL. It occurs intermittently. Close the editor. Delete the PKS module and then reload it. Try the S/R and it should work. Re the crash.. no guess. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 129 Wed Mar 31, 1993 G.GORMAN2 at 00:28 EST Lou, You mentioned Fast Techs accelerator boards and that you use a Mega 4. Do you know if they have any boards for the 1040 STe??? I've tried leaving Fast Tech GEnie Mail, but never got a reply. I have an Adspeed STe, which does speed up a few things. But would sure like to get more speed if possible. Glenn... ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 130 Wed Mar 31, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 00:48 EST I am having trouble importing GEM files from the Vector clip art package DMC was selling. Many (but not all) of the images when imported they have improper dx,dy values, and even when clicking on the optize vector graphic icon the graphics maintain incorrect proportions. Other GEMs and all my CVGs import fine. My import driver is dated 6/16/92 (date from the import driver dialog). I good example of a graphic that doesn't work is the ST-URSM file in the ASTRONOM folder. I have also tested some of the COMPUTER files and the JOYSTICK, 3_5_DISK, and LASER_02 don't work properly. Any help would be appriciated. Jim. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 131 Wed Mar 31, 1993 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 07:24 EST VORTEXT: Do you have the BFIX option toggled in Hotwire. I'm not certain that it's the source of your problems, but something to look into and verify - it might be causing what you've described. I use Hotwire and Calamus SL all the time without a problem. Matter of fact, it makes an excellent tool for tracking time when you're working "on the clock". You simply set the ledger functions and forget about tracking you time. If the screen saver kicks in the clock stops. -- Dave @ Binary Ink ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 132 Wed Mar 31, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 08:15 EST Glenn, perhaps Jim lost your letter. I have forwarded your post to him directly. He will likely respond back here, if not in email. I could go check the Press Releases in Library 14 but I have to rush off to work right now. Jim, have you allocated enough memory in the Vector output buffer of the Systems Parameter module? 128000 bytes should do it. If not, please repost and I will try those files when I have a minute. Dave, thanks for that tip about BFIX (Button Fix?) and Hotwire. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 134 Wed Mar 31, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 22:43 EST Lou, Upped the Vector Buffer from 130K to 160K and the results are the same. Something interesting that i discovered is that after the GEM file has imported the frame has changed to "maintain proportions" mode so that only the corner sizers are usable (and the icon in the frame module for proportional sizing is not always highlighted.) I'll try reinstalling the import driver, but if you could check it for me i would appriciate it. Thanks. Jim. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 135 Thu Apr 01, 1993 VORTEXT at 00:47 EST Dave - I tried using the Button Fix ACC. Niether one helped, or do you mean something different? I'm still trying to figure HotWire out. And yes, I have also posted about this in the HotWire topic. Thanks. Daniel ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 136 Fri Apr 02, 1993 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 07:05 EST VORTEXT: The Button Fix ACC is not what I be talkin' 'bout! If you right click on the menu selection for the program you desire to set parameters on in Hotwire (e.g. Calamus SL-just to keep the Topic Cop happy ) you will see a dialog that allows you to toggle custom parameters for each program you launch from Hotwire. For example if the clock in the upper right corner interfers with your menu you can turn it off for that program. One of the toggles in the lower left corner of that dialog reads BFIX. Click on it and lose the Button Fix ACC. This may or may not fix your problem. Running at 16 Mhz I find I need the option frequently. -- Dave @ Binary Ink ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 137 Sat Apr 03, 1993 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 02:27 EST I don't know how I missed it Glen, these days I try hard not to miss sales, I will send you the info this weekend. Sorry. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 138 Sat Apr 03, 1993 P.DUBE [Elan Soft] at 17:54 EST Nathan, I tried this week to make something useful with Dataformer, that is converting a document in EPS and hand it to a print shop, so it can output it for me. The guy at the print shop said there were only a gray box in the output. What's wrong? I had a raster frame in the document; is that what's causing the problem? Paul @ Elan P.S. When is the next SL update scheduled? 8-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 139 Sun Apr 04, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 03:14 EDT >ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 17:39 EST > >The learning curve is daunting but you are nearing a comfort level >Steve, so congratulations on sticking with it this far. I never thought I would get to the point where I could use SL productively, it just seemed so overwhelming. I think the secret to getting comfortable is for people to create a project and work through the problems they have. It may take forever to finish but you will be amazed at how much you have learned (of the basics) when your done. I also don't think I could have worked my way through this thing without the help of the people at DMC and all the good folks here on Genie. It's unfortunate (but understandable) that more of the "lurkers" don't speak up and get comfortable with Genie. Once you start posting you feel like a new world has opened up to you. One more thing, I really cringe when people jump on you guys (DMC) when they don't get the satisfaction they want with the product or your help. I can't think of ANYONE ANYWHERE for ANY product that have put themselves on the line like you guys have (with the exception of the John Eidsvoog of Codehead). You guys don't hide from problems, you try and find answers and I think most people realize this and appreciate that fact. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 140 Sun Apr 04, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 09:45 EDT There are updates and upgrades coming for quite a few of the modules and the program itself. BUT, they do not exist until they are physically in my hand. The second they are, I will post here. Thanks Steve. Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 141 Sun Apr 04, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 11:20 EDT Steve, those are very kind words and greatly appreciated. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 142 Mon Apr 05, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:26 EST I was just asked by a friend about mico-justification. In this case I use the term to describe the spacing technique where extra spaces are placed between each letter and word to fully justify a line (flush right and left margins). He wanted to know if SL used this system. I seldom use full justification since I generally don't like it, so I went to my manual and the Calamus guide. It seems neither 1.09 nor SL supports this. Rather both versions add spaces only between words. Is this true? Is this an option considered for the future? >> Joe M << ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 143 Mon Apr 05, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 08:27 EDT Joe, your description of microjustification is parallel to 'character spacing' which is supported as a text ruler function in both 1.09N and Calamus SL. See [5.7.4.2] for information. BTW, character spacing can be set to 1/1000 of a pt. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 144 Tue Apr 06, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:41 EST Message 143, Mon Apr 05, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] > ... your description of microjustification is parallel to < > 'character spacing' < Almost. The microjustification I was talking about is automatic per line based on the space needed to fill out the line. To do it using the character spacing I would need to adjust each line manually. Also microjustification includes word spacing in it's automatic adjustments. If I remember correctly character spacing is also accessible in the text mod. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 145 Tue Apr 06, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 20:03 EDT Joe, let me try to understand this. You were asking about a means to micro- justify the words in a line in order to fill out justified line. Is that right? If you set character spacing in a text ruler, this will accomplish the same effect which, I believe, is to accomplish full justification without those extra large spaces between a series of small words on a line preceding a very long word. Does this make any sense? :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 146 Tue Apr 06, 1993 VORTEXT at 23:43 EDT Let me just mention what I found out from those wonderful CodeHeads about Hotwire and the problems I was having. It seems that Hotwire sort of takes over the F10 key and when operating through the standard desktop can get screwed up, (re: gets buggy). The problem I was having only occured if I exited Hotwire and tried to start SL from the desktop. When running stright from Hotwire, there are no problems. Live and learn. Thanks all for you suggestions. Daniel ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 147 Wed Apr 07, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:14 EST Message 145, Tue Apr 06, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] > You were asking about a means to micro-justify the words in a < > line in order to fill out justified line. < Well actually I was looking for a way to do a whole document. As I understand what you have suggested I would need to hand adjust each line. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 148 Wed Apr 07, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 08:29 EDT Joe, did you try using hyphenation first? This might eliminate some of the need to use character spacing to fill out justified lines. You do have to handle each line separately, but that would be based on need after previewing your formatted text. In my experience, a two column layout on letter size paper might have one or two lines per column that need additional character spacing. When you use this function, it applies to all text until the next ruler is encountered. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 149 Wed Apr 07, 1993 ISD [Mario] at 21:23 EDT To: All Re: Micro-justification There seems to be some confusion in the terminology used to this feature ... This Type of feature is often referred to as "Tracking" however this is only necessary where you text is not justifying satifactorily ... In the old days one would use a typefitting system that would allow you to design your columns based upon the ideal widths achieved by fonts at certain sizes. For example, the term "CPP" refers to characters per Pica which will give the average number of characters in 1 Pica of space. The way I was taught was to use an LCA count per line. LCA means LowerCase Alphabet ... the formula for ideal values is as follows 342/LCA length (measured in points from a to z) =CPP(Characters Per Pica). This subject requires much teaching to achieve capability. A good book on the subject is the Graphics Master 4 by Dean Phillip Lem Mario @ DMC Publishing ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 150 Wed Apr 07, 1993 J.P.C. at 22:01 EDT All: I'm in the process of designing 'background templates' for most of PaperDirect's pre-printed paper products. PaperDirect sells via mail- order and has over 150 very nice products. I'm using Calamus 1.09N to design the templates and it is my understanding that SL has no problem using 1.09 .CDK's. The templates do not exactly duplicate some of the intricate pre-printed patterns but, do provide an exact- size and placement of graphic elements. In any event, I'm looking for a good reason to continue with this rather invloved project.... your interest. If you would be interested in purchasing something like this, please send me E-mail. I will upload a sample or two or three, as soon as I figure out how to use ARCSHELL 3.1. (I can't seem to figure out how to compress a .CDK file into an .LZH file). If anyone wants to see what PaperDirect has to offer contact: PaperDirect 205 Chubb Ave. Lyndhurst, N.J. 07071 1-800-A-PAPERS ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 151 Wed Apr 07, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 22:03 EDT So Mario, how can we help Joe achieve the equivalent of microjustification? Is it with character spacing or some other function? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 152 Wed Apr 07, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 23:27 EDT J.P.C. to compress files using Archshell, click the ADD button. Do you have your ARC TTP and LHARC.TTP configured? The quickest way to get set up is to download ARC_LZH2.TOS #25162 in the library. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 153 Thu Apr 08, 1993 J.HICKEY6 at 10:31 EDT J.P.C. Download the latest ST-ZIP(v2.2) and use it for compression. You won't regret it. It has the most user friendly GUI of all the compression shells, and it has become the de-facto standard on that "other" platform. Jack ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 154 Thu Apr 08, 1993 P.DUBE [Elan Soft] at 19:35 EDT Nathan, What about EPS? Did I miss your answer? Did you miss my question? I will repeat: I tried to export (using Dataformer) one page in EPS format. The file seemed to be correct (although I do not know a thing about the EPS language). The printshop told me he only see a gray box when outputting the file. Is EPS output supposed to work? I must complain about the fact that Calamus does not have any RTF import/export drivers. I hope somebody is implementing it at this very moment! Paul @ Elan ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 155 Fri Apr 09, 1993 P.MORALES1 [Pat] at 21:09 EDT Hi folks, Well, I've had Calamus SL for a couple of weeks now and I'm having a heck of a time learning. And there is a lot to learn, but I agree with those who said that moving from 1.09N to SL is a pleasant trip. I'm 3/4 through the manual and have read all of the README file... the U2U Tips is still ahead. A quick question: I 'PRINT sorted DESCENDING' broken in SL or should I keep looking for another cause? Thanks, for a heck of a nice program. My initial (and subsequent!) reaction to SL was what a great feel it has. And I use a lot of different systems at work, including SPARC work stations. I can't wait until I upgrade to a TT. Happily learning... Pat ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 156 Fri Apr 09, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 21:45 EDT Pat, the DESCENDING order for printing does not work at the moment. At one time, I was sure it worked on SLM's and not LJ printers. Now it works on neither. Please post any questions you may have. There are lots of capable SL users here who would be real happy to help you. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 157 Fri Apr 09, 1993 P.MORALES1 [Pat] at 23:51 EDT Lou, Lou, thank-you for the quick replay. But next time, please give me a couple of moments to breathe before you post an answer. You folks continue to absolutely amaze me! Oh, and I'll ask questions. But I've been an engineer for too many years now to ask before I work through a problem for a while myself. For me, thinking about a problem and understanding it is part of the enjoyment. Thank-you, Pat ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 158 Sat Apr 10, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 09:01 EDT And don't forget to go through the U2U stuff Pat. They really are EXCELLENT! As far as breathing goes, get used to it. Sorry it took me so long to respond. ;-) Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 159 Sat Apr 10, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 10:09 EDT Pat, I can tell you are going to be very successful in learning SL. There is no doubt that the high degree of controls in the program require a high degree of learning/playing/learning :-) I think most people would say that the best way to learn SL is to do some projects and to discover the methods for doing what you need. As you become more demanding, you will find that SL has ways to accomplish most of your needs. Occasionally you may not discover the answer. That's why we're here :-) Are you planning on doing color work? What kind of DTP are you interested in? What other DTP programs have you used? Do you have graphics/design experience? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 162 Sat Apr 10, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 14:23 EDT To All: Paper Direct's 800 # is no good in Alaska. At least not the last time I tried. Paper Direct 205 Chubb Ave. Lyndhurst, NJ 07071 FAX: 201-507-0817 Interesting how companies, once they have 800 and fax numbers stop printing their regular number. But one might try 201-507-5488, this is the number listed for info about freight rates for overnight shipping. For what it's worth, UPS and FED-EX, etc, may not always be the fastest and/or cheapest way to get things. We tend to forget the good ole post office. Because of my remote location, priority/1st class regularly beats 2nd day UPS and for usually for less $. So if your off the beaten path........ Ken S. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 168 Sun Apr 11, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 10:23 EDT Actually, Jack raies a valid point. ;-) Personally I find this biographical stuff quite interesting but I imagine some end users looking for technical support on Calamus SL are scratching their head in confusion right about now. ;-) Please move these types of posts to topic 24 please. Thanks. Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 169 Mon Apr 12, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 02:24 EDT Now that I've taken my TT from 4 & 0 RAM to 4 & 16 over the weekend, any suggestions on what values to put in the various parameters for speedy operation? Ken S. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 170 Mon Apr 12, 1993 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 07:01 EDT J.P.C.: Yes! I would be interested in the templates for Paper Direct's pre-printed stuff. What are you thinking in terms of pricing for these templates? -- Dave @ Binary Ink ' ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 171 Mon Apr 12, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 10:13 EDT Well Ken, make sure you configure enough ST RAM (2 meg min.) to drive your laser printer. As for TT RAM, I believe Mario sets 512000 on his 32 meg machine unless he is handling huge color graphic files. Then he can go from 1 to 2 megs of TT RAM. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 172 Mon Apr 12, 1993 R.VOORNEVELD [BOB] at 19:07 EDT Ken, I, have my paramiters set to ST Ram 128000 bytes TT Ram 512000 bytes vector 5R My redraws are quite quick. Since I don't use an atari laser the ST ram is lower than Lou recommended. I have a 4 & 32 RAM. BTW if your using a TTM195 monitor I've found that a screen resolution of 96dpi X 96dpi gives a pretty good 1:1 screen resolution Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 173 Mon Apr 12, 1993 J.P.C. at 21:42 EDT Dave @ Binary Ink: Nice name for a DTP business! I'm probably going to upload all the templates I've already done using Calamus 1.09N.... FOR FREE. How bout them Apples! But, to redo them with Calamus SL, in color, would mean that I'd have to buy a TT030, and SL, and a few more programs, to do it right. So, as part of the READ_ME.TXT file which I'm including with my existing templates, I'm making a proposition to SL users. Note that I've only received one E-mail message and there are only two other positive responses to my original question seeking interest in the templates. That's not much of an incentive. Anyway, thanks for showing your interest and, ENJOY the FREE templates! Cordially, Jimmy Carter ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 174 Wed Apr 14, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 22:57 EDT Lou, Nathan, or anyone else, Has anyone tried to duplicate my problem loading GEM images into SL. I posted a while ago but haven't heard anything since. I try importing some of the vector images that where part of the clip art package that DMC was selling. Try importing somehting like the joystick. On my system it imports with improper proportions, and also sets the frame to proportional sizing on. If i click on the "proper proportions" icon it doesn't help. I tried serveral GEM files from the pack and it did it on all but one. (It also was the only one that didn't ask me for a font i didn't have) All my other GEM files work fine. HELP! Jim. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 175 Thu Apr 15, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 01:39 EDT Jim, I am sorry I did not post a response but I have not finished my testing. I load those files with different results. One did not work at all, one worked on the Mega4 but not TT. I will finish checking and post again. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 176 Thu Apr 15, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 19:25 EDT Jim, I have found some very curious results with the GEM files you noted: ST_URSM in the ASTRONOM folder and JOYSTICK, 3_5_DISK and LASER_02 files in the COMPUTER folder. First of all I noticed the abacus cursor flash by during import which indicates some kind of numerical conversion was being attempted. I also noted that the imported frame (although incorrect) was quite larger than the same frame in 1.09N. I suspect that the file parameters were being converted during the import process. Since there is no way to adjust line widths, etc. during import or after import, I tried another method. I loaded each of the four files into Calamus 1.09N and saved the CDK. Then I imported this CDK into Calamus SL using the Document Converter and everything looks perfect! So, for the moment, you have a workaround. Import any problem GEM files into 1.09N, save a CDK and load it into SL. Then use the clipboard to move these graphics to your other SL documents. I suspect the current GEM import driver may not be accomodating the more precise measurement system in SL. As you may remember, the original Document Converter had a little flaw we referred to as the FONT100 bug. Everything was 100 times greater than in the original 1.09N document. When the Document Converter was upgraded, this problem disappeared. This would explain why the problem graphics in the 1.09N CDK were correctly formed when the CDK was imported into SL via the Document Converter. In effect, the Document Converter 'corrected' the change in measurement system that the GEM.CIV could not. I will ask DMC to check into this. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 177 Thu Apr 15, 1993 D.HOHENSTEIN [PRIMETIME] at 20:05 EDT Kyle, Atari moved to CIS? When did this happen? What? Nathan, Mario, Lou, et al... Igot Calamus S just before the new year and I simply cannot figure out how to make a master page containing anything but guideline information. I downloaded the page numbering and master page user2user files here hoping that they would help, but the page numbering file told me to do what I have been doing (and apparently something I no longer have to do), and the master page file just told me how to do guidelines, which I can already do as well. How about a tutorial on how to make a very simple page for, let's say, a term paper. One that pipes from page to page and has a page number at the bottom? Thanks (it's end of the year and papers are due), Doug ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 178 Thu Apr 15, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 20:46 EDT Doug, try this. CREATE NEW DOCUMENT and set your guidelines. Then snap in the text frame. Now click the icons for Piping from Previous Page and Piping to Next Page. The markers will appear in the frame. Now go to the Page Module and click INSERT EMPTY PAGES. Then insert 19 for the number of pages to add after page 1. NOW click the COPY LAYOUT from Page 1. You will then have a 20 page CDK with all the frames connected. Go to the master page and insert a text frame for your automatic page numbering. Then click Select Page Number Style. Return to the layout window and your page numbering should be in place. After that, save your CDK as TEMPLATE.CDK. The resave it with the name of your term paper. Now you have a template you can reload with ready to import frames! Just in case you get stuck, I will upload a CDK to Library 30 for you. Look for the file called ESSAYS.LZH. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 179 Thu Apr 15, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 23:07 EDT Lou, Thank you VERY much for checking into this for me, i'm glad it's not just my system. Jim. (Crossing my fingers and holding my breath.) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 180 Thu Apr 15, 1993 S.HANNA3 at 23:38 EDT Hi Nathan! Maybe you could help please? My HPDeskJet 500C printer is now in Toronto being upgraded to a HPDeskJet 550C. (The one that carries both the b&W and colour carts together.) Will I require a new driver to make it work correctly with Calamus SL? Or, can I just use the colour driver that I did with the 500C? Also, does anyone know if Dave Small has vanished from the earth? Or, maybe is visiting another country? I have left numerous E-mail messages to him that really need a reply and wondered if anyone knew his where abouts. (G) Many thanks, Sylvia M. Hanna in Victoria, B.C. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 181 Fri Apr 16, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 16:56 EDT Doug 8 ;-) ... Atari decidedly did NOT leave GEnie! This is their home. In fact, it's real quiet in the Atari RT on that other service. Real quiet. Sylvia .. Hi. A post! ;-) How come you had to send your 500C to Toronto to upgrade to a 550C? And where did you send it? Yes, there is a new driver for the 550C. When you are ready, send me email and I'll email you back the latest driver. Dave Small showed up in the Atari RT a few weeks ago and asked a question over in Category 4. I believe he's been back a few times since then. He has also shown up in the Gadgets RT lately I noticed. I cannot explain his lack of response to you. Have you posted in the Gadgets RT? Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 182 Fri Apr 16, 1993 S.HANNA3 at 22:32 EDT Hi Nathan, thanks for the quick response, you'll be getting that E-mail.(G) No, I haven't tried the Gadgets RT, I was using the cheap route, E-mail. Thanks for the suggestion though, it's worth a try. TTeternally, Sylvia ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 183 Sat Apr 17, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 12:06 EST Sylvia, Give David a little time, I understand he has had a lot of personal problems that has kept him away from what he would like to do for some time, however, he is back and getting caught up. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 184 Sat Apr 17, 1993 P.DUBE [Elan Soft] at 13:47 EDT What about something so much crucial such as RTF (Rich Text Format) import/export. Every serious text editors and desktop publishers and more supports RTF. This is a must when communicating text with many styles in it. Exporting in ASCII only is not serious at all. Paul D. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 185 Sun Apr 18, 1993 S.HANNA3 at 23:26 EDT Thanks Joe M. - I knew Dave HAD a lot of problems but I had hoped some of them were better by now. I'll hang in there, I have before. (G) Sylvia, in Victoria, B.C. ------------