========================================================================= (C) 1994 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 6 Tue Mar 30, 1993 P.LATONA [Stormwalker] at 07:55 EST Sub: Civilization Please Post General Hints Or Tips On Civilization from Micropose Here! 201 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 1 Tue Mar 30, 1993 P.LATONA [Stormwalker] at 07:56 EST Anyone playing this game? I'm having a terrible time trying to get things moving. Any hints or tips would be appreciated. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 2 Wed Mar 31, 1993 VORTEXT at 00:14 EST It's wonderful. I don't get any sleep anymore. Daniel ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 3 Fri Apr 02, 1993 P.LATONA [Stormwalker] at 03:30 EST Well, I don't like it that much! But I'm having a lot of problems. I can't keep my people from starving--no matter how many areas I irrigate, they just can't seem to produce enough food. I lose populations all the time and that affects my tax rates. When I lose that many, I have to up my taxes--which cuts science down. I've found no way to get around this. Do you have any suggestions at all? ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 4 Fri Apr 02, 1993 M.DRYSDALE [Drys] at 22:31 EST Hints for Civilization First decide which of the ways to win the game you want. If starship to AC, maximize civilization advances. If conquest of the planet, maximize military strength. (I did play one game where I got to AC, the game did not end; then when I tried to conquer the last enemy city, the game bombed.) It is probably possible, if there are no game bugs, to: 1) Get to AC 2) Conquer the planet 3) Finish your reign in the allotted time (2020 to 2100) 4) Continue playing that world beyond 2100. If you have played Populous or Meg-a-Lo-Mania, this game moves somewhat slower. The payoffs start after the first half hour of play, not after 10 minutes. First ten moves (or so): Build the city where ever the starts you. Don't waste time looking for a better spot. Build 2 militia first. Send the first out to explore. Fortify with the second. Build two settlers. Find good places for them to establish cities. Make sure one is by the ocean. Build one militia for each new city and fortify. Build a grannary in each city. VERY IMPORTANT! Build more settlers. One per city. Have those settlers improve the land around each city. Get a boat. Put a settler and a militia on it. Go to a new continent. Repeat first ten moves. Exploration Important because you'll find buildings that contain gold or friendly people that join your civilization. Put a diplomat, militia and settler on a boat for exploration and founding new cities. Land Improvements There is no need to improve every land square around a city. Some are best left untouched. Build roads only between cities. Read the Terrain Chart carefully. Building a City Always build Granary, Marketplace, Bank, Temple and Cathedral. Your happiness score is based on these. Any other improvement is optional. Make lots of caravans. About 15 cities are needed to build a starship in a reasonable amount of time. Buy improvements when the cost is low enough. Sell improvements if needed. Military Pay attention to the A/D/M rating of a military unit. Keep one military unit in each city to keep order. Don't bother to build a barracks in every city - one per continent is fine. Just make all your military units in that city. Be sure to reassign military units to a new home city when you send them there. Get gunpowder as soon as possible. Civilization Advances Steal, lie, cheat and trade for them. Examine the Civilization Advances Chart (foldout) closely. Some advances are not worth getting (Feudalism, chivalry). Some are very important (Iron working, Physics). Wonders Some wonders will advance the game for you. Great library, lighthouse, pyramids, Darwin's Voyage (best). Apollo program is essential to building a starship. Send diplomats into enemy cities to spy on what wonders they have built. Conquer that city, get that wonder for little effort. Happiness Have one entertainer for each 100k of population. Temples contribute to happiness. Government Despotism gives the greatest control. I've had good results with the Republic. Democracy requires constant vigilance (T. Jefferson). Starship If you want to build the Enterprise in any reasonable time, have ALL your cites work on the parts. You need not build the whole starship. 4 engines, 3 fuel, 4 solar cells, 1 habitat, 1 life support, 10 - 15 structural members will give a ship with a 100% chance of success and a 10 - 15 year transit time. Sleep Try to get some. It is just a game. A game takes 24 - 48 continuous hours of play. Mike, GenTech and POWER Computers ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 5 Fri Apr 02, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 22:51 EST Mike thanks for an excellent post. *******Brian********* Written on Friday 02 April 1993 at 11:51 p.m. AST ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 6 Sat Apr 03, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 08:29 EST Great post Mike! ;-) Now let's see if I can actually get somewhere following your excellent advice. ;-) Nathan ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 7 Sat Apr 03, 1993 C.HERBORTH [-Chris-] (Forwarded) I finally got to check out Civilization this week, after waiting what three years?, to see it on my poor little ST... WHAT KIND OF IDIOT DESIGNED THE INTERFACE?!??! On my non-"e" ST, I can't _read_ the bloody menus! Black text on a dark grey background with black dithering _isn't_ legible. :-( I know PCs still lack a useful GUI as standard, but couldn't they use GEM on the ST? Huh? It's not _that_ bad... SimCity does it. Sheesh. -Chris- ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 8 Sun Apr 04, 1993 JLHOFFMAN [John Hoffman] at 04:22 EDT Making the effort to develop democracy is worth while. Running a Democracy increases you trade income and eliminates corruption. Eliminating corruption can be a real big deal latter in the game. One thing that was a little difficult to understand was how to identify corruption. The documentation shows corruption as trade symbols that look distorted. This isn't in fact what happens on the ST. Corruption is shown as a extra space in the line of trade symbols. What makes a democracy good is that the luxuries, taxes and scientific developments are greatly increased. Thus cities with good trade in my empire grew to a size of 19 without needing a cathedral! Everyone was always celebrating 'I love the President day' which further increased trade. I should point out that the transision to democracy is difficult particularly if you're comming from a monarchy as I did. It took three try's before I established a stable democracy. Key thing was to get rid of all military units that were 1. outside of cities or 2. fortified in cities that weren't there home. I won by making the trip to AC in 1866. Curiously the game crashed when showing power levels after the game had been won. John ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 9 Sun Apr 04, 1993 C.KERNS [Craig] at 19:35 EDT Picked up a copy of Civilization yesterday, but haven't taken it out of the box yet. I'm on level 993 in Populous II and want to finish that up before getting sidetracked. I thought I had the timing of Finish-Populous II and Start-Civilization perfect about a week ago but some of the levels I've run into lately have been real tough. Anyway, I will be back in a couple of days. (am archiving the Civilization message so far).......... ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 10 Mon Apr 05, 1993 M.DRYSDALE [Drys] at 07:08 EDT John - Good points. Getting to AC before 1900, that's a great game! Congrats. Mike, GenTech and POWER Computers ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 11 Tue Apr 06, 1993 P.LATONA [Stormwalker] at 08:18 EDT Thanks for all the pointers, guys. Has anyone heard of the "Super Settler" cheat? I used it once or twice and it does help a bit, but it's clumsy and VERY time consuming. Can't wait to read all this captured stuff! Maybe I'll make it to AC sooner than I thought! ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 12 Tue Apr 06, 1993 VORTEXT at 10:39 EDT You playing this game Nathan? I didn't know you had any spare time. Daniel ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 13 Wed Apr 07, 1993 C.KERNS [Craig] at 00:34 EDT Has anyone had a problem with the game locking up? I'm still in the fiddling- around/reading-the-manual/getting-the-drift phase, but several times now right after hitting the CHANGE button on the City Display, the military advisor box pops up and then I can't do a thing except move the mouse pointer around. It doesn't happen every time, but the only work-around I can think of is to save the game before Changing Production and hope I won't have to reboot. Not the way I would like to play the game. For reference I am using a Mega ST2 with TOS 1.02, running from a hard drive with no ACC's or AUTO programs except Mouse Boot. Thanks, Craig ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 14 Wed Apr 07, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 07:00 EDT Arrgghhh! Toad still hasn't shipped Civilization to me.. I called today 4/6, and they keep telling me tomorrow, third time now.. It sounds great... Later, <-:}Ted{:-> Tuesday, April 6, 1993 - 6:58:06 pm ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 15 Thu Apr 08, 1993 VORTEXT at 00:36 EDT Ted, Call ATY in Oakland. He has one sitting on the shelf, and has had it. 510- 482-3775. I too have had the game freeze up on me once like that. hasn't happened again, so I'm not sure what caused it. TT with TOS 3.06 and several ACC's and Autos. Daniel ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 16 Thu Apr 08, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 07:36 EDT Ted, Actually they shipped it to me. Only because I will have to make sure that it will work on your system and to remove any bugs/problems first... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Wednesday, April 7, 1993 - 7:01:28 pm ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 17 Thu Apr 08, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 18:14 EDT VORTEXT, Thanks for ATY's number.. He doesn't have a toll free number for us east coast dudes?? :( I just called TOAD again 5pm EDT, and they say they shipped Civ. yesterday, UPS.. Maybe I'll get it Friday, maybe even tomorrow..:).. <-:}Ted{:-> Thursday, April 8, 1993 - 5:39:14 pm ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 18 Thu Apr 08, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 19:43 EDT Jeff, That's funny... They shipped it to you.. Hahahahaha... Eat your heart out... :) Maybe I'll let you look at the box?? :) <-:}Ted{:-> Thursday, April 8, 1993 - 7:39:40 pm ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 19 Fri Apr 09, 1993 C.KERNS [Craig] at 00:35 EDT Alas, the freeze-up problem is consistant and frequent enough to make the game unplayable for me. Even my save game workaround doesn't work. If I save the game before Changing Production in a City and then get a lock up, and then reload the saved game, I just get a lock up the next time I try to Change Production. So I really don't gain anything. The Right Mouse Button for AUTOmatic improvement seems to work okay, so I could put my domestic advisor in charge, but fear I'd get overrun pretty quick. I tried playing it from floppies instead of HD and even reinstalled it from the original disks but to no avail. This game's got a steep enough learning curve without having to put up with this kind of aggrevation ;-( I'm going to call my dealer tomorrow and see if anyone else has this problem and maybe get a copy of his disks to see if I have a corrupted file somewhere. Questions I'd Like To Ask MicroProse: 1. Why doesn't the Game Menu option say 'Quit To Desktop' instead of 'Quit To DOS'? (Maybe this is GEMulator compatibility) 2. Why are the disks labeled '1', '2' and '3', but the Install Program calls them 'A', 'B', and 'C'? 3. Why does the game ask 'Which Drive Contains Your Saved Games Files' when it doesn't matter which one you choose, it always loads them from the drive that the GAME.PRG was run from? Maybe I'll ring them up and ask. Has anyone got a UK to PDT conversion program? ;-) -Craig ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 20 Sat Apr 10, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 04:59 EDT Craig, I just got the game late this afternoon and have not had a chance to try it.. I will start tomorrow, for sure.... I let you know if I experience the same thing.. There are a couple of others here playing it as we speak, and they have been quiet, so maybe you do have a bad disk?? Let us now how you make out.. Later, <-:}Ted{:-> Friday, April 9, 1993 - 8:52:28 pm ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 21 Sat Apr 10, 1993 VORTEXT at 12:31 EDT Craig, Actually, Microprose is on-line over in the Games RT and actually there is a topic covering ST games where they actually give answers to questions. I forget which one it is right now but will check and post the Cat and Topic. Daniel Ted - Sorry, that's the only number I have for ATY. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 22 Sat Apr 10, 1993 P.LATONA [Stormwalker] at 13:31 EDT I've found a serious bug in the game. When you conquer the planet, the game asks you to insert disk A, and when you do, the game bombs out. You'd better be sure you save often (Autosave) because you can lose a LOT of work having this happen. I've never had the game lock up. But it does do some garbage collection like Amberstar, and the disk access is VERY long. It appears to re-load all the data files from disk B:. Next time you think you get a lockup, check your drive light (if running a floppy) to see if that's what is happening. I'm still having very little luck with it. The hint about not building a barracks for every city definitely does not work. I've had people riot over not having one. Civil disturbance can cost you plenty when you are in a building frenzy--lost income is BAD news. No matter how hard I try, I cannot get over the money problem. You aren't permitted to 'save' money by not building anything--cities are required to endlessly build SOMETHING or other. Every time I try to set up trade rouroutes with other civilizations, I get sneak attacked! Very frustrating. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 23 Sat Apr 10, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 20:55 EDT All: Well I played my fist couple of hours, with past tips in hand... :0 Took 636,436 bytes to install on my hard drive.. Painless 10 minute installation program tho... This game comes on 4 floppy disks, BTW.. Play is smooth.. Interface is simple and easy to use.. Not a whole lot of commands to learn.. :) The graphics are so-so in medium res.. The sound is very good. I like it... Right now I have two cities and I am on an island and have conquered all the barbarians.. I am now building granneries (sp)? Next a boat/ship... I like the auto save feature... I'll have more later... Oh yes, I had to run it on a clean systems.. No Warp9, UIS III, nothing... When I did, I got bombs... Thank God for Xboot... :) Later, ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 24 Sat Apr 10, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 23:09 EDT >Message 21 Sat Apr 10, 1993 >VORTEXT at 12:31 EDT > Actually, Microprose is on-line over in the Games RT and actually there is a >topic covering ST games where they actually give answers to questions. I >forget which one it is right now but will check and post the Cat and Topic. VORTEXT: Yeah.. Get us that Cat/Top numbers for the games RT.. I may just pop over there and take a look.. What else dey got?? I'm always looking for a new RT to join.. :) >Ted - Sorry, that's the only number I have for ATY. Hey, that's OK.. I got the game from TOAD yesterday.. Thanks, <-:}Ted{:-> Saturday, April 10, 1993 - 9:38:46 pm ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 25 Mon Apr 12, 1993 B.KING5 [Bill King] at 00:59 EDT The CAT/TOP number in the Games Roundtable that you want is: CAT 12, TOP 13 -- "Microprose - Games for the Atari ST." ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 26 Mon Apr 12, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 21:48 EDT For what its worth CIVILIZATION seems to get along well enough with BIGCOLOR.PRG, the color emulator for monochrome monitors available here on GEnie. The graphics are pretty dreary, of course, and some of the messages and icons are less than readable, but if you already know what they say, the game IS playable on a mono monitor. I played it for several hours on my STacy with no problems. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Somebody asked why their disks were labeled 1,2,& 3? That's funny, mine are labeled A, B, C, and D. Also, although the outside of my box lists Microprose's Maryland address, the disks themselves say "Microprose, 1 Hampton Road, Ind. Est., Tetbury, Glos, GL8 8LD." Do yours all say that or did I somehow get a European copy? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >"The game is so-so in medium res." Why would you want to play it in medium res instead of low res? ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 27 Mon Apr 12, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 22:09 EDT You mean it CAN be played in medium? Can I access the DA menu? It would be nice to do GEnie and play Civ. Empire is nice this way too. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 28 Mon Apr 12, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 22:38 EDT Someone on Internet says that if you rename the file SLAM2.LBM to SLAM2.BBM it fixes the "crash after conquering the world" bug. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 29 Mon Apr 12, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 23:33 EDT The game does NOT run in medium rez. You can LOAD the game FROM medium rez, but the game itself will switch into low rez when it installs. And no, you can't access any desk accessories as the menu bar is not GEM. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 30 Tue Apr 13, 1993 VORTEXT at 00:10 EDT Ain't it intersting that the Atari topic would be '13'. Hmmm... The Games RT covers mostly Fantasy and Sc-Fi gaming such as Dungeons & Dragons, Battletech, Heros and all them type games from all them nice game companys for all us role-players and board gamers. The do have a computer game cat but it's mostly IBM stuff. At least Microprose has something for us Atari folks. It's a nice RT to visit. As a matter of fact, it's the only other one I use on GEnie, but then, I LOVE GAMES!! Daniel David - Thanks for the info. Must give it a try. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 31 Wed Apr 14, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 18:12 EDT David, > >"The game is so-so in medium res." > > Why would you want to play it in medium res instead of low res? > David, Brian: Sorry guys... What I meant to say was: The graphics are so-so on the Atari... I forgot it used low res by default.. What I find is some of the terrain features are hard to distinguish.. I'd like to see it on a good "PC"?? Later, <-:}Ted{:-> Wednesday, April 14, 1993 - 6:53:10 am P.S. VORTEXT.. Ya made me go & join the Games RT.. I'm getting a whole bunch of tips & cheats for Civ.. And I want Empire Deluxe now after reading the topics over there.. I am going to buy a PC next week just so I can play the new "EMPIRE".. Of course there are some other games I'll look at too... :) Carriers looks good and War in the Pacific.. I mean there are a lot of good looking war games for the awful Pee-Sea.. :( ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 32 Thu Apr 15, 1993 G.ZEPKA1 [Greg] at 00:31 EDT World Leaders, I just got a copy of the game and only got to look at the manual. It looks very good, but did you notice the 1991 copywrite on the ST specific instructions? Greg P.S. I will tell you how it stacks up aganst the PC version. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 33 Fri Apr 16, 1993 M.DRYSDALE [Drys] at 06:51 EDT We loaded Civilization on one of our high end PCs at the store. At the same time Civ was running on the TT. We saw no significant improvement in the PC version. There were minor differences - some graphics seemed better on one machine over the other - but overall, the two versions are identical. I note no differences between the game on a TT or a MSTe. Mike, GenTech and POWER Computers ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 34 Fri Apr 16, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 13:04 EDT Thanks Mike, that is nice to know. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 35 Sat Apr 17, 1993 J.ROY18 [Jonathan] at 02:19 EDT JLHOFFMAN, From playing the IBM version all night yesterday, the corruption is the trade item (or whatever) in BLACK. The space between the first part of items and second tells you how much surplus you are making... ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 36 Thu Apr 15, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] (Forwarded) This has to be one of the best and most original games i've played in quite a while. It is up and running on my TT and works wonderfully from the HD. For anyone looking for a game for those 4am sittings this is it. Anyone out there playing this? On my TT (i haven't tried it on my ST) the replay function doesn't work. The menu mentioned in the suppliment never appears. Is anyone having this same problem. Jim. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 37 Sat Apr 17, 1993 S.ROSENBERG7 [The Prisoner] (Forwarded) Yep, Jim, got Civilization and have been playing it on the ST without a hard drive. It is, by far, the best computer game I've played since Balance of Power II. Are you aware that there is a book out about the game? It's called "Civilization, or Rome on 640K a Day" by Johnny L. Wilson and Alan Emrich. Its filled with all sort of good advice, tricks, and strategies and can be found in any big bookstore or Egghead software stores. I'm currently playing Russia in a game where I was put alone on a continent. I had no one to steal technology from for the longest time until I ran into some Americans North of me. I still haven't discovered how to sail yet so I can't really explore the world. Let me know how your games go! Regards, Stevie in Long Beach ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 38 Sat Apr 17, 1993 JLHOFFMAN [John Hoffman] at 15:11 EDT Jonathan, There were never any differences between non-corrupt trade and corrupted trade. This would mean that I never saw any corrupt trade. Anyway on trade you can use all you can get it isn't like production and food were you have a certain amount you need and the rest is surplus. In the case of trade units you don't NEED any but you WANT a lot. So the space on trade identifies the level of corruption. Trade to the left of the space is good trade to the right is trade lost to corruption. This must be a difference between the ST version and the PC version. John ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 39 Sat Apr 17, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 16:11 EDT Mike, Thanks, for the PC/ST comparison... <-:}Ted{:-> Saturday, April 17, 1993 - 8:22:12 am ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 40 Sat Apr 17, 1993 P.LATONA [Stormwalker] at 19:53 EDT This game appears to have quite a few bugs in it. I just reached a civilization rating of 20% and when I tried to continue playing, the game bombed after about 3 moves. It doesn't seem to matter what move I make, either. I still haven't gotten to AC yet in normal game play. I keep running out of food or money. I ALMOST got started to build the SS on my last game, but my money ran out. Even at 100% tax rate... It's still fun to play. But it's frustrating as all get out. Especially when you THINK you are doing well, and all of a sudden everyone starts rioting! ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 41 Sun Apr 18, 1993 G.RIFFE [Upright Man] at 21:55 EDT I also have noted a few bugs in this version. Has anyone confronted Microprose about them? They are on-line in the GAMES roundtable (cat 12, topic 13). I tried to write to them but got intterupted. G. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 42 Sun Apr 18, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 23:45 EDT If someone will let me know all the bugs they have encountered I will ask. Earlier tonight I did leave a message over there asking if MP has heard of any bugs on the ATARI version. Brian Written on Monday 19 April 1993 at 00 a.m. AST ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 43 Mon Apr 19, 1993 R.COLEMAN24 [BOB C.] at 00:32 EDT Well, is this the last 'great' game for the ST? No one knows for sure yet. Looks like I see the same old faces around here: Dan Ted Jeff Nathan (whoa, what an honor...and in a game topic!) John Craig I d/l'd up to message 19 (Friday April 9) so I may not be really current. Anyway, this game is super. No need to elaborate, all the rest of you agree, right? Have you fellas picked up the Computer Gaming World edition of "Civilization or Rome on 640K a Day"? This 375p softbound book has everything you want to know about CIV. It is by Johnny L. Wilson & Alan Emrich. Cost is $18.95+ tax. Look for it at book stores like Barnes and Noble (in California), or other better book stores in the computer book section. It can also be ordered from Prima Publishing, P.O. Box 1260CIV, Rocklin, California 95677 (916) 786-0449. My copy is played on a 1040STf (TOS 1.0) and is solid (so far). I haven't played it on TOS 2.06. Any problems out there in Atariland? I'm trying to be real careful not to get too addicted to this prg. It suckered me into a 1 AM sitting last week, and I wasn't too nice to be around the next day....especially since I had to go to work! Looking forward to more chatter. Bob B^) ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 44 Mon Apr 19, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 18:25 EDT Rob, I have found that "CIV" does not like anything else loaded with it with TOS 2.06.. I may be wrong but it bombed on my Mega4 STe a lot.. Of course my machine is not the stable-est machine around... Later, <-:}Ted{:-> Monday, April 19, 1993 - 10:50:56 am ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 45 Mon Apr 19, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 21:06 EDT I don't necessarily agree that this game is "super". I'd say it's somewhat interesting but that the gameplay and game design could have been a lot better. I find the game to be overly repetitive. Not enough new surprises and twists are introduced to keep you interested after you're many hours into the game. (Contrast that with a GREAT game like Dungeon Master where there was always something new around every corner.) I haven't run into any bugs yet, and I'm still playing the game, but more out of a compulsion to win it than because it has me particularly entranced. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 46 Mon Apr 19, 1993 JLHOFFMAN [John Hoffman] at 22:37 EDT Bob, Don't give up on the ST yet! Read the genie lamp digital diversion section I highlight new games that are coming. Unfortunately, they seem to be running late. I'm assuming that that's mostly because of last minute changes to make everything work with the falcon and typical programmer estimates of when something will be done. At any rate there are at least half a dozen hot new role playing games around the corner. In the meantime Civilization is out and it's positively adicting. I'm busily playing Transarctica at the moment for my next Lamp review... Keep the faith! John ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 47 Mon Apr 19, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 23:40 EDT But oddly enough it seems to get along just fine with BIGCOLOR.PRG which allows it to run on a mono monitor. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 48 Tue Apr 20, 1993 C.KERNS [Craig] at 00:14 EDT Brian, I've found the game to be unplayable because of a bug I reported earlier here concerning locking up sometimes when Changing a city's Production. It may be the TOS in my Mega ST2 (1.2), I don't think anyone here has said they were using that one. I've been thinking about getting TOS 1.4 to see if that clears the problem up, but I have a TinyTurbo coming RSN w/2.06 so I would like to skip the added expense. At least I've been saved (so far) from becoming addicted ;-) -Craig ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 49 Tue Apr 20, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 09:56 EDT It seems like different bugs may pop up in Civilization depending on what TOS and what machine you have. I have TOS 1.4 and a 4 meg STe. So far I haven't experienced any bugs, lock ups or crashes, but I haven't finished the game yet. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 50 Tue Apr 20, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 18:37 EDT According to Quentin, from Micropose, he knows of know bugs in this game. Therefore, once we have identified the bugs, I will post ot him again. Written on Tuesday 20 April 1993 at 07 p.m. AST Brian ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 51 Wed Apr 21, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 18:57 EDT >Message 50 Tue Apr 20, 1993 >BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 18:37 EDT > >According to Quentin, from Micropose, he knows of know bugs in this game. >Therefore, once we have identified the bugs, I will post ot him again. >---- Brian: Turn on Spelling Sentry, please.. :) <-:}Ted{:-> Wednesday, April 21, 1993 - 12:27:20 pm ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 52 Wed Apr 21, 1993 JLHOFFMAN [John Hoffman] at 23:01 EDT I played the game finish to end and never had it lock up. That is except for the end when the Power levels of the civilizations were displays. Then it bombed out. I won by going to AC. I have TOS 1.4 on a Mega ST4. I must add that a couple of times I thought the game had locked up on me. The first time I was just reaching for the reset button when the screen came to life. Since then I noticed that periodically the little text window on the left will have a cursor displayed that indicates it is processing. This can take awhile. John ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 53 Thu Apr 22, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 01:03 EDT To all experiencing problems, I talked to Microprose U.K. today and there is a problem with on eof the disks. I have had it bomb on me during civil disorder (is there is statement there) and the replay feature doesn't work. (On my TT) The fix disk should be avail. in the U.S. (from Microprose U.S.) in the next week or so. I have to say that this a great game. I was a little disappointed in the graphics when i first got it, but the interface is smooth, and the graphics do compair well with the P.C. version. (It doesn't have to be a "Psygnosis" type graphics) Good luck to all. Jim. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 54 Thu Apr 22, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 08:20 EDT No problems running Civilization on 2.06. But if the keyboard does not respond anymore when giving commands, hit you CAPS LOCKKEY. It does run with Warp-9. But it seems to be slower that way... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Tuesday, April 20, 1993 - 10:41:10 pm ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 55 Thu Apr 22, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 11:07 EDT Jim, I wonder if they can upload the fix as a patch in this RT? I have asked MP over in the Games RT for the patch to be uploaded. Brian ... Written on Thursday 22 April 1993 at 11:37 a.m. AST ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 56 Thu Apr 22, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 20:48 EDT All, Haven't been playing Civ. much since I got the PC and Empire Deluxe.. :) But, I will be getting back to it this week end... :) And I still love my Atari, even if it is crashing and bombing again... <-:}Ted{:-> Thursday, April 22, 1993 - 7:53:12 pm ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 57 Fri Apr 23, 1993 D.DEBOE at 02:12 EDT Hello all! I love this game too, but... Running on a 4 meg STe w/ HD I've had some problems... 1) It crashed after I conquered the world because 'SLAM2.LMB' should have been 'SLAM2.BBM' I fixed that, but I shouldn't have had too. 2) The graphics on my spy reports 'X gets civ advance from Y' are trashed. 3) The graphics from spy reports of other civilizations stays on screen after the surrounding msg box disappears. 4) I've got no color on my civilization powergraph--I can't tell who's who. 5) I got a ship to AC but after the powergraph appears _very_ briefly it crashes back to the desktop w/ bad colors and is totally locked. I have shut down my hard drive and reboot everything. Those are my complaints. When it works, I love it. If anyone gets word of fixes.... Just another world crusher, David DeBoe ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 58 Fri Apr 23, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 14:02 EDT To All, I just uploaded a little program that will modify the Civilization Saved Game file. It will increase your money to $30,000. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thursday, April 22, 1993 - 11:25:14 pm ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 59 Sat Apr 24, 1993 P.LATONA [Stormwalker] at 08:33 EDT Has anyone managed to get that cheat program to work? I can't. It appears to modify the file, but when I reload the saved file into the game, all I get is the same amount of money when I saved it. Thanks for trying, Ed! ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 60 Sat Apr 24, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 10:15 EDT Quentin from MP is putting in a request to the UK for the patch. I will keep you informed. Brian ... Written on Saturday 24 April 1993 at 11:13 a.m. AST ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 61 Mon Apr 26, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 07:14 EDT Stormwalker, >Thanks for trying, Ed! Thanks for trying???? - if the program does not seem to work, then give the programmer a chance to fix it or find out what the problem is!. Just in case the old version got uploaded, I am re-uploading the current version of the program. The old version would only give you more money if the date was after 0 AD. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Monday, April 26, 1993 - 12:25:24 am ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 62 Tue Apr 27, 1993 P.LATONA [Stormwalker] at 01:17 EDT Ed, I was just kidding you! I admit, I did leave out the smiley face--I forgot to put it in when I ended the message. I couldn't get the program to work at all. It did write something to the disk, but what it was, I'll never know...I am, by the way, using a stock 1040ST with TOS 1.02. No addons, no AUTO folders..zilch. I'll give your new version as shot just in case. Civilization is one game where you need a lot of money! Anyway, thanks for taking the time to write it. I really didn't mean to insult you, you know...Sigh. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 63 Tue Apr 27, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 21:19 EDT I couldn't get the new version to work. I saved an early game (circa 2000 BC) and zapped it. When I tried to reload the game I got a message about my air strikes (?!) and then a long row of bombs. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 64 Wed Apr 28, 1993 P.LATONA [Stormwalker] at 01:29 EDT I can't get either version to work. Net trick having air strikes in 2000BC!! I've come very close to winning the game, but always run out of cash just before I can start construction of the Star Ship. Then everything slowly falls to pieces. Lots of rioting and stuff... There's something strange about this game. The documentation as well as the game itself, says you don't need barracks (obsolete) after gunpowder is developed, so the game takes away all of them. But the pirates STILL come and steal your food, so you have to rebuild them. This costs plenty in both money and resources, especially if you have 20 cities! ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 65 Wed Apr 28, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 07:21 EDT Stormwalker, For what it is worth - my name is Jeff not Ed - I am using my brother's account. :-} >I couldn't get the program to work at all. It did write something to >the disk The first version of the game, I was in the AD's as far as the date goes, so I thought that was the only place. When I started a new game the next day and was in the BC, my program did not work. So I found out the the money for BC is in one location and the money for AD is in another. What a weird way to waste space in the saved game file. >I am, by the way, using a stock 1040ST with TOS 1.02. No addons, no >AUTO folders..zilch. The program only uses legal system calls so it should work on all ST's with all versions of TOS. >Anyway, thanks for taking the time to write it. I really didn't mean >to insult you, you know...Sigh. No insult taken. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Tuesday, April 27, 1993 - 9:58:26 pm ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 66 Wed Apr 28, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 07:45 EDT David, Stormwalker: Could you send me a un-modified saved game via GEnie E-Mail. I am beginning to wonder if there are several versions of the game floating around. Yes the program does work. It works on the three different Civilization games that I have access to. I have been using it for the last few weeks with no problems... As for the Barracks, you have to re-build them several times during the game. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Wednesday, April 28, 1993 - 7:35:20 am ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 67 Wed Apr 28, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 23:15 EDT Stormwalker, I've won a game at King level so it can be done. I big key to success is the Pyramids. Get them and change to communism as soon as possible. As for the barracks, both gunpowder and Combustion make the previous barracks obsolete. The trick is when you start researching gunpowder (and combustion) watch the research closely, when you are about to learn the advance sell all your existing barracks. This will get you 40o a pop, so with 20+ cities it's over 800o extra. This helps the treasury a lot. Good luck. Jim. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 68 Thu Apr 29, 1993 AEO.MAG [?] Travis [?] at 07:02 EDT Jeff, I just tried out your second cheat program. I ran it on an old Emperor level .SVE file, reentered the game, and... no extra money. I RETIREd, and noticed two sharp jumps upward in the Egyptian and Mongol PowerGraphs. Hmmm. I re-ran CIV, loaded in the .SVE, and quickly took over Thebes (the only Egyptian city). "29xxx gold pieces captured." Over the next 100 years, I built (bought) diplomats like mad, paid off the Russians and Americans, and was well on the way to develop Frigates so I could invade the Mongol continent next door (I bought off quite a few Mongol knights that had made a camp nearby my capital, too.) Then it hit me. The Egyptians _and_ Mongols both received $30,000. 50 years later, the game was effectively over. What happened?... --Travis "Two words that can ruin your day: Mongol Armor" Guy Civving on an Atari TT030 ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 69 Fri Apr 30, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 07:23 EDT Travis, >The Egyptians _and_ Mongols both received $30,000. 50 years later, the game >was effectively over. What happened?... Could you please send me in E-Mail a unmodifed .SVE game file. I think there are several versions of Civilization floating around - only because the program works on my version of the game with no problems. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thursday, April 29, 1993 - 8:22:28 pm ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 70 Fri Apr 30, 1993 P.LATONA [Stormwalker] at 08:14 EDT Jeff. I'll send you a saved game file this weekend. I had a major disk glitch and lost all my saved games. I don't know what happened, but it was a mess...no matter which saved game I loaded, the game bombed as soon as an 'event' was announced. Jim: I'll try your hints. I've had some problems with the Zulu, not the Mongols. The Zulu are tought--the Mongols are pussycats. I wipe them out all the time with little trouble. But then, I don't play it at King level, either! ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 71 Sun May 02, 1993 J.ROY18 [Jonathan] at 12:08 EDT John, Corrupt trade is a black trade symbol. A shortage of food is a black food symbol. Negative shield flow is a black shield. :) That's just the way it is. (At least in the IBM version.) That's definatly a difference between them then. You don't need trade, so I goofed on that one. But you do "need" it in the sense that you need lots of money later on. :) -- I still have yet to hold a Democracy together. :( I'm really thinking about getting it for the IBM instead. I have a little 286 here I can play it on. (I built it to buy games for anyways. ;) It's SVGA, and the IBM version probably doesn't crash. Of course, the ST version would have music and sound effects.. Something my IBM is missing. Hmm. (Oh, if you are curious how I'm playing before I've bought it, a friend at school has it, so I've been visiting his dorm more and more recently. :D ) ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 72 Sun May 02, 1993 G.ZEPKA1 [Greg] at 14:22 EDT Craig, I have the same problem of the game hanging when you change a city's production. I have tried a 2 meg STE with TOS 1.6, and a ST with TOS 1.4. There is a defenate bug. I tried to go to the Game RT but can not get there for some reason. I also will be upgrading my MEGA (oldstyle) to a TinyTurbo or something real soon. Greg ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 73 Sun May 02, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 18:09 EDT I have had the game go into an infinite hard drive access cycle when I tried to change a city's production. It happened twice at approximately the same point in a saved game. But in other saved games I haven't had the problem at all. Strange... Has anyone heard from Microprose recently about a fix? ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 74 Sun May 02, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 18:30 EDT Quinten, over in the games RT said he would check with the UK. Brian ... Written on Sunday 02 May 1993 at 07:27 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 75 Sun May 02, 1993 C.KERNS [Craig] at 20:45 EDT Greg, Thanks for the reply. At least I'm not the only one experiencing this bug. I will hold off on getting TOS 1.4, and wait until the TinyTurbos with 2.06 finally ship. I quit playing because it was too frustrating, but maybe I'll fiddle around with the Pre-Game Options and see if that makes any difference. Could be that it just takes the wrong combination to activate this glitch. -Craig ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 76 Sun May 02, 1993 G.ZEPKA1 [Greg] at 21:57 EDT David and Craig, I have found a work around untill Microprose comes up with a fix. Just turn off your Advisors (under option in the game dropdown). The solution to the problem for MicrProse should be simple. Greg ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 77 Mon May 03, 1993 G.RIFFE [Upright Man] at 20:17 EDT Well I finally finished a game! I did it by defeating all the other Civilizations. The bug I have to report happens on a TOS 1.0 machine: during the game one of the advisors picture is messed up, at the end of the game the pictures of the conquered leaders is messed up. I tried reloading it onto my Supra 20 meg hard disk but no luck. Other than that, I have had no severe problems, although I did notice that you only get a replay when you finish a game, not when you retire like the manual says. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 78 Tue May 04, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 22:06 EDT Everyone, Nuclear weapons are ALMOST a no no for land targets because of the polution. But boy do they do a number on battleships. Try it, but make sure you don't have any units to closeto your target. Jim. P.S. I have finishes a couple of games on king level, i had one where i had to rush the space ship, and it arrived in 2040, the year the game automatically retires you. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 79 Sat May 08, 1993 P.LATONA [Stormwalker] at 18:37 EDT I've been noticing yet another bug in this game. Whenever I capture the capital city of Babylon, and then try to stage a revolution to either democracy or republic, the game bombs. This happens every single time without fail. As long as I don't have Babylon, however, it seems to work OK. Now that is a weirdie... ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 80 Sun May 09, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 12:53 EDT chances are you are having civil unrest in many cities. The way to avoid this bug (at least til the fix is avail.) is before you start the revolution change the production in your cities so that there are enough entertainers to keep the people happy even during anarchy. This has worked for me in several games. Leave the entertainers in place until the new government is established. Jim. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 81 Mon May 10, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 18:11 EDT Hi, My brother has this game and is playing it on a 2.5 meg 520 STfm with TOS 1.2 I believe.. No hard drive.. Also no modem, that's why I'm asking the question.. Is anyone having the game lockup when you change production of conquered cites at the Prince level?? I've been glancing at the messages in this thread but don't remember the specifics of some of the bugs.. He didn't seem to have any problems until he moved up the difficulty scale.. Thanks, <-:}Ted{:-> Monday, May 10, 1993 - 5:41:56 pm ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 82 Mon May 10, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 21:03 EDT Have anyone receive their bug fix disk yet? Brian ... Written on Monday 10 May 1993 at 08:04 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 83 Thu May 13, 1993 D.DEBOE at 01:45 EDT Hmm, I've developed something new with Civilisation. Previously I could view the 'PowerGraph', though all the lines were white. The civilization names were up in color, but all the lines were white. Now the things crashes to the desk top and locks up my STe and HD immediately upon displaying the PowerGraph. Any ideas? David DeBoe ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 84 Thu May 13, 1993 VORTEXT at 10:22 EDT What bug fix disk? I know the question has been put to Microprose but wasn't aware there had been a response. Daniel ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 85 Thu May 13, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 19:43 EDT Daneil, I put the question to Quentin at MP. However, others were going to get the fix from the UK. I will not buy a program like this until I know it is playable. Brian ... Written on Thursday 13 May 1993 at 05:59 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 86 Sat May 15, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 01:01 EDT Brian, It is very playable for me (even on my TT) when you understand what causes a crash. I am not supporting poor programming, but this game is great and to not purchase it for a few problems that CAN be avoided is a bad choice. It only crashed on me at one point and that sequence doesn't come up because i can avoid it without taking anything away from the game play. Jim. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 87 Sat May 15, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 14:19 EDT Brian, Jim, thanks for the information. My wife just got her tax refund and told me to order the program! I guess I should order it. Thanks again. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Saturday 15 May 1993 at 03:17 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 88 Sun May 16, 1993 P.LATONA [Stormwalker] at 09:19 EDT Has anyone ever reached 100,000,000 people? I just got 71,000,000 tonight before the end of the end of the game came around. I was curious if anyone has ever made 100,000,000... This game does have a lot of interesting "undocumented features" in it. B^) ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 89 Sun May 16, 1993 J.MARKARIAN at 13:44 EDT Hi all. I haven't had a chance to read this topic yet, but in glancing I noticed that several of you are having the "lock-up" "infinite search" problem when you try to change production. This is a great game, byt the bugs have ruined more than half my efforts. I have a mega 2 w/ TOS 1.4, and I disable all Auto folder and accessories before running the game, and I have tried it from hard drive and floppy. Still bombs. I won and settled outer space, but the game bombs at the end instead of replaying or showing me my chart. Also it ignores the command to save to the disk I ask for. I'll read up and get back to you. Just wanted to add my gripe. John Markarian ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 90 Sat May 22, 1993 J.MARKARIAN at 03:00 EDT OK. One week later. Turned off "Instant Advice" option and game didn't bomb. Won at king level, but didn't make it to outer space. I performed the SLAM2.BBM fix, and got a complete replay at the endf of the game. It is a very fun game, and quite addicting. Hope they make the fixes and issue a free fix on Genie. Thanks for all the ideas and helps. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 91 Sat May 22, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 13:21 EDT J.Markarian, I am waiting word form Microprose about the fix. They were suppose to place it in the games RT. Not yet. I am not going to buy it until I know it works well. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Saturday 22 May 1993 at 01:39 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 92 Thu May 27, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 20:16 EDT Ok, I got a reply from Quentin regarding the bug fix. This was a message in the Games Rt to me: >Hi Smokey, > >There is a new version for the ST in the works according to the UK's QA >department. I have placed a request for the update as soon as it's completed >at which time I will upload it to the Library. > >Best, > Quentin/MicroProse Or you can write to MP in the UK at: > MicroProse LTD > The Ridge > Chipping Sodbury > Avon > BS17 6AY As I told Quentin, I won't buy it until there are fewer bugs. If I wanted bugs, I would buy Sim ANt for the PC. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Thursday 27 May 1993 at 08:19 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 93 Thu May 27, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 21:33 EDT O.K., here we go. Just began playing the game. I also find it very addictive. I'm such a novice at computer games, I haven't come accross any bugs that I can tell yet, but.... on the world map, none of the menu items are legible. They are there, and if I use the help key I can find out what they are, but it's a real pain to have to refer to the manual each time I need to make a change to anything. (I'm talking about the items under Game, Orders, etc., etc.) Has anybody else had this problem? At the moment, I'm playing on a new 2 meg 1040STe TOS 1.6, Hard Drive and SM 1224 monitor. I can't wait to get more into it! Only wish I could make out the menu items to help learn what they are and make play a bit more intuitive. Thanks, Matt ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 94 Sun May 30, 1993 G.ZEPKA1 [Greg] at 22:21 EDT Matt, The menu items are ledgible on my machine,(except the green trade stuff ) it seems the monitor needs to be working 100%, the choice of colors that they used requires a bright monitor. The five bugs that I know of are: 1. Auto advisors crashes the game (turn them off ,they aren't of any real value anyways). 2. The game save feature does not allow you to select the disk drive, but defalts to the drive you ran the program in. Others report problem with auto save, but I use auto save an never had a problem. 3. One of the files is misslabled on disk 3, you need to change the file name. 4. When you are well into the game and there is alot of unhappenest the game goes to the desktop with a strange pallet. Greg ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 95 Mon May 31, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 06:58 EDT >Message 94 Sun May 30, 1993 >G.ZEPKA1 [Greg] at 22:21 EDT > >3. One of the files is misslabled on disk 3, you need to change the file name. > >---------- Greg, Do you happen to know what the name of that file is?? And what it should be renamed?? My brother is having problems with this game and that might be the answer.. Thanks, <-:}Ted{:-> Monday, May 31, 1993 - 6:40:32 am ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 96 Mon May 31, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 23:04 EDT Gregg- Thanks for the info. Well, the monitor thing may be the answer. Mine is an old Goldstar SM1224 and I know from some other games that the it's not the brightest. It was most noticeable in Barbarian. When I played it on another system, with the JVC monitor, I saw definition in the backgrounds I didn't know was there! It's weird, though. It's only in the menu's where the background is grey and the print is black. Also in the Status and Unit Identification windows. Other than that, I _love_ the game. I haven't played many games with my machine so it is taking me a while to learn everything. Like, when and how to make diplomats, for one. How, when and why to change what the populus are working on, for another. I'll keep playing and I'm sure I'll get it. Matt ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 97 Thu Jun 03, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 19:25 EDT Help! Anybody! While I've just started playing this game, and _love_ it, I am finding it difficult to find the answers to some questions just by reading the manual. I guess the most important question for the moment is: Can I, and how do I change the advisor during the course of the game. Each time I attained a new technology, I would see the Science Advisor give a suggestion. Can I switch to Trade advisor, etc. or are we locked into the Science adv. because technology is a science? Thanks for the help, Matt ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 98 Sat Jun 05, 1993 S.SHEETS at 00:19 EDT Does anyone know how to get rid of a city? Mainly I'm talking about captured cities. The computer has a tendency of put its cities too close together. I've tried starving them, but I could get rid of the last guy. Also, is there any talk of fixing the hall of fame problem? Steven J. Sheets ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 99 Sun Jun 06, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 01:05 EDT You are correct Matt the advisors only speak up when there is something they have a clue about. (boy if government only worked that way in reality.) Jim. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 100 Tue Jun 08, 1993 P.LATONA [Stormwalker] at 22:35 EDT I've never0) been able to get rid of conquered cities. I don't think it can be done unless you nuke them to death, and that is hazardous at best... 0 z I managed to break the 100,000,000 mark today. In "warlord" mode, I got an 88% Civilization rating. I wonder how they cooked up those rating comparisons. Shogun Tokaido (?) must have been a very interesting personage! B^) I got a 128,910,000 civ built last night and it took practically every square inch of land to do it. Has anyone gotten higher than this and if so, how did you manage to keep things going smoothly? Toward the end, I was having a difficult time keeping the "people" co ~ ntent...not to mention feeding them. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 101 Wed Jun 09, 1993 AEO.MAG [?] Travis [?] at 03:37 EDT To remove any city (captured or otherwise), all you should do is: 1) Sell off any improvements (unless you _don't_ need the cash). 2) Starve off the people if you want a quick resolution, or create settler units one at a time, then when you are down to the _last_ dude... 3) Create a settler unit. The city will vanish, and your settler can wander off to seek greener grasslands (or whatever). My question of the week: Has anybody noticed that you can have really, _really_, _REALLY_ unhappy people who show up in red in the upper left corner of a city display? I can't seem to locate the reasoning for this in the manual. It seems that if you have a semi-large to large population, and they're all unhappy, and then if some more unhappiness ensues, then someone gets really toasted off, and it takes superhuman efforts to placate themthem. --Travis "Chust Vondering" Guy Atari Explorer Online ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 102 Thu Jun 10, 1993 P.LATONA [Stormwalker] at 05:37 EDT Travis, I've tried what you suggested and am unable to get it to work. They seem to multiply faster than I can build settlers. Every time I get down to one "person", and build settlers, another pops in. Perhaps the level of difficulty matters? I can't figure out why you can do it and I cannot. I've also not seen any red unhappy people. They appear only in black no matter what I do. Perhaps you have a later version than I? No matter. It's an interesting game, that's for sure. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 103 Sat Jun 12, 1993 AEO.MAG [?] Travis [?] at 15:27 EDT Stormwalker, I just tried my suggestion on a lower level (Chieftan) and I noticed that the game _won't_ let you destroy a city by turning the last person into a settler unit - instead, the production box will simply overfill, and nothing will be produced. Sorry for not testing this out before I spoke up! --Emperor Buttercup of the Fig Newtons ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 104 Sat Jun 12, 1993 P.LATONA [Stormwalker] at 20:19 EDT That's okay. It seems that there's a lot more to increasing difficulty level than just what the manual states. I've found big differences between Chieftan and Warlord, too. As a test, I've been trying to dup- licate my previous 100,000,000+ civilizations at Chieftan level--and I cannot. My best score is 75,000,000+ even with HUGE landmasses and other benefits. I've tried and tried but can't make it to 100,000,000+ In Warlord, I have a MUCH easier time getting a large population. But technology comes slower (as the manual says it will) and money becomes a real problem now. I have no more problems with money on Chieftan level at all. It's an interesting game. I wish the graphics could have been better and the interface more finely tuned, but it's still a good game. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 105 Sun Jun 13, 1993 C.KERNS [Craig] at 01:46 EDT I am playing on the Prince level now (working my way up) and was wondering if the worlds in the higher levels have continuous east and west movement. The manual on page 25 seems to imply that there are no borders when going east or west, but I keep running into an 'invisible fence' out in the ocean and have to turn around. Kind of like playing on a flat world instead of a round one. I can understand the polar caps, but this other barrier bugs the heck out of the Magellan in me. I've only played on computer generated worlds so far and not on Earth (if that makes any difference) . After several days of playing I accidently ran across using the Right Mouse Button to move the active unit one square at a time. I went back and sure enough it was in the supplement. I've been rereading the main manual over and over to trying to absorb the information in this game, and it is gradually sinking in as I relate it to what's going on in the game I'm currently playing. I am also getting to bed later and later ;-) - Craig ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 106 Sun Jun 13, 1993 S.SHEETS at 12:33 EDT Thanks Travis, I've tried everything you suggested except building a settler unit when I was down to one dude! I'll give it a whirl! Steven ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 107 Sun Jun 13, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 14:53 EDT Do anyone own "Rome on 640k a Day" and is it worth it? I remember when I bought Sim City they had the planner guide out but it reminded me more of my economics courses in university. I know the IBM have a "technical supplement", a booklet that contains keyboard commands and a chart showing all terrain effects, effects of irrigation, railroads, etc. Do the ATARI version? ~~~~Brian ... Written on Sunday 13 June 1993 at 10:56 a.m. ADT I am waiting for my copy to be delivered. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 108 Thu Jun 17, 1993 R.COLEMAN24 [BOB C.] at 00:08 EDT Brian: The Civilization book is really very good. I purchased it before I purchased the game (I knew it was coming out for the Atari soon). It goes into a lot of detail and is very educational. Bob. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 109 Thu Jun 17, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 01:34 EDT Brian, Buy the Compute book Civilization. It has the same cover as the Game, and is supported by Microprose. Great book. Jim. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 110 Thu Jun 17, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 17:22 EDT Thank Bob and Jim. Now I must go to a computer shop and ask for the Civ. book for my ATARI [grin]. Compute? You mean Compute! makes the book? ~~~~Brian ... Written on Thursday 17 June 1993 at 03:54 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 111 Tue Jul 13, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 22:11 EDT I just got another message back from Quinten (MP). He is not aware of any patches being released for the ATARI. I thought a patch was suppose to be completed. Anyone knows? ~~~~Brian ... Written on Tuesday 13 July 1993 at 11:10 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 112 Wed Jul 14, 1993 T.KOLAKOWSK2 [TomKo] at 21:10 EDT Brian, MicroProse UK has issued more than on update. They are now on version 3. It's not a patch. You have to send the original disks to the UK for replacement. They sent out mine on June 16th, but haven't gotten them yet. If I don't get them by Friday I'll call the UK again. BTW MicroProse US knows nothing about Civilization for the ST! ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 113 Wed Jul 14, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 21:32 EDT TomKo, I will pass this along to Quentin! Thank you. I should be getting my copy of Railway T. And Civ. real soon now. That I think, will finish off my Sid Meir's collection for the ST! Again thank. BTW, is there a cost for the changes. Could you post the changes here, once you get the disk? ~~~~Brian ... Written on Wednesday 14 July 1993 at 10:31 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 114 Thu Jul 15, 1993 T.KOLAKOWSK2 [TomKo] at 22:21 EDT Brian, There is no charge for the update beyond the shipping costs. The updates are supposed to correct problems with 4meg STe's, the various screen problems, etc. I'll post all the improvements as soon as it comes in. I think they may have writen my address wrong as they told me they sent the disks out to me on June 16th. It shouldn't take a month to get mail from the UK to America (unless it's taking a scenic tour around the Caribbean!) ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 115 Thu Jul 15, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 22:56 EDT Thanks TomKo. Sure wish PM USA would do the upgrade. Oh well, at least the game is out for us. I can't wait for it to get here! ~~~~Brian ... Written on Thursday 15 July 1993 at 11:55 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 116 Sun Jul 18, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 19:28 EDT OK, so I've finally gotten to the point where I have taken over _all_ of the other civilizations, where after being alerted but the program that my civ had taken over the last of the remaining ones, the program began some music, and bombed. I had saved the game when I had only one city left belonging to another civ, so replicating the bomb-out was simple. Now, I seem to remember someone posting about a change of a file name. Was this just to cure the Playback bomb? (when retiring or at 2100) Any suggestions? It's being played in Cheiftan mode. Thanks, Matt ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 117 Mon Jul 19, 1993 P.LEFEBVRE [T.K.] at 22:01 EDT TomKo, What is MicroProse's UK address. I am very interested in getting the newest version. Thanks, -- Paul ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 118 Mon Jul 19, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 23:57 EDT Well, I think I posted here.... but,.. no answer yet. Anyone know of a fix for the game bombing after taking over the last remaining city of the other civ's? Also, what was the fix re: the SLAM.b2 file??? Any help will be great. Thanks, Matt ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 119 Tue Jul 20, 1993 T.KOLAKOWSK2 [TomKo] at 21:33 EDT Matt, The file name SLAM2.LBM should be changed to SLAM2.BBM in version 1 of Civilization. I'm not sure if that's necessary in v2 or v3. <<>> ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 120 Wed Jul 21, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 00:34 EDT Thanks TomKo - The filename is changed. Let's see if it works! Don't know what version I have. I'm interested to see the address for the upgrade posted here. I may have to go for it. But hey, it's a great game! Take care, Matt ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 121 Wed Jul 21, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 19:55 EDT Well, just tried it. After I conquered the last remaining city of the last remaining civ., I now get the screens that tell me when I conquered whom, then the one that says "The entire world hails ..." Then, it exits out to the desktop! Magik! Know anyone I can ask about this??? Thanks, Matt ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 122 Thu Jul 22, 1993 T.KOLAKOWSK2 [TomKo] at 21:13 EDT MicroProse's UK address is Unit 1 Hampton Road Industrial Estate Tetbury, Gloucestershire GL8 8LD To get the latest version just send the original disks to the above address. I sent mine registered mail. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 123 Mon Jul 26, 1993 B.HIBBS [Bill Hibbs] at 22:54 EDT MicroProse UK Address is on the back of the back cover of your manual. I just sent my disks today. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 124 Thu Jul 29, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 18:00 EDT Those people who has the update from the UK, what is the current version? Where do you find the version number/ ~~~~Brian ... Written on Thursday 29 July 1993 at 06:54 p.m. ADT anxiously waiting the arrival of my copy for my favourite dealer! ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 125 Sat Aug 21, 1993 M.WORLEY3 [Michael] at 00:26 EDT Help! Has anyone got Civilization to run on the Falcon? It is supposed to be compatable. I can get it to run from disk but the colors are all messed up. Thanks, /\/\ichael / \ / \/\/orley ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 126 Sun Aug 22, 1993 J.GERMAN3 [Hydraxxus] at 16:07 EDT I have had a few problems with icons being messed up on my TT, and a couple of bombs here and there but nothing major. Gee, since my games hard drive took a dump a month ago I haven't played, guess it's time to reload it and run with it. How many people would be interested in playing a game if I uploaded a start? Would you want a custom setup, Earth or just a normal game? How many races? What level? Which race to play? No fair using cheats! (I know of two cheat programs out there). I'll make one up tonight and upload it, then take your preferences and upload another one next weekend. You'll all probably beat me, I ususaly just barely get by! Hydraxxus ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 127 Wed Sep 08, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 19:36 EDT Has anyone received the current version? Can it be played without crashing or locking up the system? ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 128 Wed Sep 08, 1993 B.WORTH [B DUB] at 21:56 EDT I'm new to this RT and am interested in several Microprose Games. I've read all 127 entry's and have found one crash problem that I have in commom with you all. I can finish Civilization at any level but at the end when the powergraph appears- CRASH. John Hoffman had a similar problem. Is there a fix? I have a 4meg 1040 STe w/1.6 TOS and using a Megafile44 HD. Any suggestions?*s ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 129 Wed Sep 08, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 23:51 EDT Good question Jonesy. Is there anyway to determine whatm the current version is? I am still waiting for my copy to show up at the house and I hate to have to mail it off for updates right away. B Dub, I think the patch fixes that. The patch must be ordered from the UK. I have asked MP in the Games RT numerous times but nada. ~~~Brian... Written on Wednesday 08 September 1993 at 11:00 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 130 Thu Sep 09, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 01:21 EDT I can't remember! I can't remember what I did, but with instant advice on, I am not getting the auto-advisors suggesting which advance to go for any more. Anyone got a clue? Matt ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 131 Thu Sep 09, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 02:08 EDT Funny, I've never had the game crash after doing the powergraph. Just about every place else, 'tho. The exact crashes and lockups seem to vary depending on level of play, also. What I mostly get is: When doing a happiness check (domestic advisor, either from menu or function key) it'll two-bomb to the desktop with the mouse confined to forty columns. This doesn't usually show up until later in the game, when there's more'n half a screen's worth of cities... this whether I've taken any furriner cities or not. Game crashes immediately to a completely locked desktop when last city is taken - at least at chieftain and prince levels. At various times (I haven't kept a complete log, sorry.) odd things will happen - units with new homes or killed off will still be billed to the city of origin; once, in 1857, when I'd just gotten frigates, 64 battleships showed up in the military screen (but were nowhere to be found, drat!) And not infrequent complete crashes for no apparent (that is, I haven't noticed or I've overlooked some commonality) reason. My system is a 4160 STe, run from HD, TOS 1.62. I normally run from medium res off a Hotwire menu. However, I've tried quite a variety of setups - including a completely bare low-res boot from HD with nothing but a 128k cache. This's got me stumped, perplexed, and not a little miffed. Especially since I don't save as often as one would otherwise think prudent - I tend to get caught up in the thing, and it's _very_ frustratin' to have eight hours of play blink away. Oh yeah, I have tried various combinations within Civ options, also. After a string of common disasters, I now run it with no advisors, no autosave, no sound, and no animation. This seems to help. Anyone? Brian, Hey, beats me. Can't find any mention of version anywhere. I wrote Quentin early tonight with a list of short but pertinent questions; I hope patience has more reward than its own self. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 132 Thu Sep 09, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 23:01 EDT Jonesy > I wrote Quentin early tonight with a list of short but pertinent >questions; ... Don't hold your breath! It was I that told him how ATARI users should upgrade. He didn't know. ~~~Brian...Written on Thursday 09 September 1993 at 09:43 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 133 Fri Sep 10, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 00:45 EDT Brian, Yes, I followed that exchange, and I'm glad you clued him in. The thing is, the fellow logs on with the user id of MICROPROSE. To my mind that means he's representing the company, and might, just perhaps maybe, be thought to have some connection to, or knowledge of, the company or its products. At the least, and one of the things I asked, one might hope it possible to email, here or Internet, someone from the company or even the Civ team. (Otoh, I can imagine the poor folks at the other end cringing at the thought of trying to deal with the time and effort of the possible volume of mail...) I can't afford long-distance calls, let alone cross-pond ones, and the prospect of protracted discussion via regular post is not one I'd to which I'd look forward. While ST support presumably sucks hindmost, one could hope for a bit of help anyway, no? It's a great beautiful program that with all the amount of effort, creativity, and TLC that went into it, as well as the overall quality and attention to detail of the ST port - it'd be nice to play it as was meant. (I think it a shame that presumed constraints of time and budget apparently led to insufficient play testing of the ST version. But that's something not uncommon from most all the companies that port from other platforms so far as I've seen. Besides, this is one _huge_ mutha. Gotta be some beasties crawling around. ) ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 134 Fri Sep 10, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 05:33 EDT Jonesy > While ST support presumably sucks hindmost, one could hope for a >bit of help anyway, no? Yes and no. The USA version of MP does not support the ATARI. However, if you get results, please post here! ~~Brian..Written on Friday 10 September 1993 at 06:20 a.m. ADT ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 135 Fri Sep 10, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 19:14 EDT Well, progress. After some hesitation, I went ahead and renamed slam2.lbm to slam2.bbm. This helped; I got so far as the program starting to process the trophy wall before it locked. Hmm, methinks. With a trusty sector editor at my fingertips, went waltzing through the game.prg file. Sure enough, long about sector 598 or so, there's a reference to slam2.lbm, so that got changed. Now, although there's some screen glitches, it'll go on right through all the way to the hall of fame and deposit me politely back on a functional desktop. Frabjous day, man. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 136 Sun Sep 12, 1993 R.SKYBOY [Rick/HGR] at 12:25 EDT Dunno if I am blessed or what, but I have 1.4 on a 2.5meg 520ST and haven't seen a single lockup on Civilization. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 137 Sun Sep 12, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 18:52 EDT Rick, How old is your game copy? Perhaps you have a newer version. Or, as you say, you're lucky and we ain't. Since I did my 'fixes', haven't had a crash or lock yet. Fingers crossed, and all that. Still waiting to hear from Quentin. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 138 Wed Sep 15, 1993 J.GERMAN3 [Hydraxxus] at 22:11 EDT Jonesy, I have had the game crash at certain points also, but most of those seemed to be due to conflicts with auto folder programs...now I run it on a bare system and have found the following: When I take over the world When I have my government collapse (sometimes) Various other times it seems to crash for no reason, but those have gone way down since I removed Warp 9 Has anyone tried to edit a save game file? Has anyone used the cheat program on here? (I tried it, but it boomeranged) ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 139 Thu Sep 16, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 00:50 EDT Hydaraxxus, Of what does your system consist? What are you running for auto programs? Do you use the stock desktop or a replacement? Have you made any of the fixes? (For that matter, do you have any idea of what version of Civilization you have? ) I know that's a lot of questions. The thing is, I run Civ from Hotwire in medium resolution, passing a command line to RunLow.prg (works like a champ for most everything!). MultiDesk Deluxe and Deskcart are my normal accessories and Warp9 is inactived via the .dat file. I haven't gotten around to adding it back in as a test. (At the moment I use only the screen accelerator portion; for mouse movement and screen saving Silkmouse is in use just now.) So far, since I made the fixes mentioned before, there've been no crashes or lockups, so I'm curious as to what your setup is. Hmm. Nope, haven't used the one cheat available for the ST, and don't plan to. I admit the thought of giving oneself extra wheels can be tempting. It can get mighty tough maintaining high research allocation and paying for everything, especially at the higher levels. At king level (haven't played emperor yet, damme) I have better luck stealing tech than paying for it. I haven't looked into the saved game files much. You? ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 140 Thu Sep 16, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 02:13 EDT Hydraxxus, I spoke too soon. Even with a setup bare save for a directory cache of 128kbytes the game crashes when accessing the domestic advisor _when there is a full page or more_ of cities. Nuts. I thought this was working now. Seems to me it made a difference as to whether happiness was checked immediately the beginning of a turn or not. Maybe not. [Sigh.] Save often, eh? Still no response from Quentin, btw. Gosh, I hope he's alive and well. If I must wait much longer for a reply, I guess snail mail direct to the company will be in order. That's maybe ok, tho; I have a few comments and questions concerning Silent Service II, too. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 141 Sat Sep 18, 1993 J.GERMAN3 [Hydraxxus] at 01:52 EDT Jonesy What machine are you using? Thanks for the notes on changing the extension and using the sector editor to find the other and fix it as well! Yipppeeeee Civilization is working better then ever! ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 142 Sat Sep 18, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 19:02 EDT Hydraxxus, Glad to be of help. I'se just passing along stuf found in the various libraries. Check over in Scorpia's games RT - there are files of RTC's, hints, compendia of helpful messages off Internet, and more. Nice to hear things're working better for you. I may have moved a bit hastily in some of my 'fixes' because I notice there are now 8-10 files in my Civ folder with BBM extensions. Have to dig out the originials to double check if this is right. Aside from the previously mentioned problems with happiness check and munged screen at the end of world conquest, things seem to be working ok tho. My setup is a stock 1040 STe with 4 megs RAM, booting off a Megafile 30. Since my color monitor died more'n a year ago I'm using my TV - works fine, except trade routes are somewhat unreadable. One thing that seems to help with speed of play, btw: if you've the memory, install a large cache. I'm using Atari's Cachennn.prg set to 128kbytes and it helps. Heck, it could be set much larger yet, but I'm a RAM miser. How are your games going? Have you tried to put a railroad on fish yet? (I haven't yet, but it was one of the hints given in the text files available here.) ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 143 Sun Sep 19, 1993 JLHOFFMAN [John Hoffman] at 17:57 EDT Jonesy, It been awhile but I though that civilization was one of those games that didn't like any disk caching. I have an ICD controller and if I remember correctly I have to disable all caching to play civ. John ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 144 Sun Sep 19, 1993 J.GERMAN3 [Hydraxxus] at 21:16 EDT Jonesy I use a TT with Xboot and no cache on....I get crashes once in a while. I haven't done any of the fixes yet on my system, but have a friend who could not play very long before crashes until we did the fixes on his system (I'm lazy). I have no idea, I know it was one of the first to hit the states, I got it before I heard of anyone else having it...I wanted it BAD! I have played with save game files for other games (Their Finest Hour, etc) but not Civ, so far I haven't taken the time (I just got done with a final today and have a breather before next term, maybe I'll try it soon!?!) I like the game, think the graphics could be better and that more testing could have been done with it before sales, I have played it more than any other game, wish that MP would put out more stuff for Atari computers (now I want Task Force 1942) and wish they would support us in the US. Emperor level hasn't been attempted yet, and I am just about to win at king level for the first time ever. I didn't use any cheats, even the 'super settlers' one, I think I have the game figured out pretty well, though I do still get suprised. Do you upgrade your defenses as new units become available? I go for gunpowder pretty quick, then have militia until I get mechanized infantry and only upgrade if I feel threatened. My favorite WOWs to get are the Great Library and the Pyramids. I like both and they are very usefull at the beginning. I go to communism when I get the pyramids unless I feel very secure, then I go for the republic. I use democracy once I have Womens sufferage. I usualy don't use monarchy unless I don't get the pyramids. Hmmmm.....any tips? Make caravans early.....supplememt your attacks with diplomats doing sabotage on nearby enemy cities....build markets and banks early.....start with 0% taxes, 100% science until you build your first improvement.....expand quickly, conquer if you must, but settling is better.....enjoy the game! Get back with more, though most of this you already should know! Silent Service II is a great game....I have two different versions of it, don't remember their numbers though. I bought the first version from the company when it was released....they sent me the other to fix a few bugs I reported. I used to buy games when they came out and demanded them immediately. I love SSII, have a blast playing it (you see I am in the Navy and have been stationed on two subs, a sub tender and now fix subs at Pearl Harbor), I have techniques that get me by....sometimes I suprise myself with how well they work, I do things you aren't supposed to do....like stick around to finnish them off AND take out the escorts in scenarios. When I do war careers I only go for merchants (or large combatants) with torpedoes unless it's a juicy convoy and there's one or two escorts. I love deck gunnung destroyers! Hehe....manage to keep the damege to a minimum (zig zag does work) ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 145 Sun Sep 19, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 22:32 EDT John, Thanks for the observation. I'd thought that using just a straight-forward read cache would speed certain aspects of play without getting in the way. On another matter, it's really too bad that Civ won't allow use of a fsel; at the moment I'm stuck with being able to save only to the directory the game runs from, and then only for the allowed number of saves. I suppose, once saved, files could be moved, tho. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 146 Sun Sep 19, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 23:49 EDT Hydraxxus, I agree, it would be nice had the game seen more, wider testing. I should imagine it had to do with one humongous program, limited time and budget, and racing for a market deadline. I understand upgrades are available, the information has been posted here and in the games RT, but I would prefer some information and answers to a few questions directly from the manufacturer. It appears email is of no avail; the thought of having to lick a stamp doesn't thrill. Given the machines on which it'd have to run, I'd say the graphics ain't bad (but sure, I wouldn't complain if they could be 'tweaked'.) King level is still a bit uncomfortable, although I've managed several times to win by the Alpha Centauri route; I'm following a rather stolid progression of personal high scores and ratings through the levels - nothing to write home about, mind, but using lesser levels to work on various [what passes for my] strategies, and fool around a bit. On a whim, f'rinstance, I let several island cities go on auto - ungood. One of the pleasant intrigues of this game is that conditions of terrain, neighbors, and peradventure (unless one goes through the tedious safety of saving before every battle, etc.) have real effect on one's current strategy. In general, I upgrade defense as a rule, with exceptions, depending on strength and threat from neighbors, whether the barbarians are a major force. Cities behind the lines have lower priority. Rather by default I often end up building rather than conquering - must be the incipient engineer in me. Unless one gets really behind the technology race and is unable to build 6-12 cities, it ain't bad. Otherwise it seems better to conquer - loot, wonders, and population for the price of chariots, boats, and catapults. As has been mentioned here, tho, Mongol armor puts the kibosh on that! At warlord and prince levels I've built all the wonders and gone to the stars with as few as four cities. Wonders built depends on a lot - largely how many cities I've got married with what their resources and trade are. Using caravans to build wonders is definitely the method of choice, if one has the breathing space. I usually go for Pyramids, Colossus or Lighthouse depending on circumstance (if others don't beat me to it), Magellan's Expedition (some things you want to build if for no other reason than to prevent others from doing so), Darwin's Voyage, Women's Suffrage, and Bach's Cathedral. Later, SETI and Cure for Cancer, of course. All but the first couple depend on whether one can either get ahead on tech or steal and conquer for it. Not infrequently whatever I plan on doing is upset by little things, such as the Greeks planting their stolid little phalanges in my favorite rice paddies or such. Tell me, how do you go about selecting whom to play? For a long time, I simply picked those players whose cities' names were easy for me to remember. Now, I think of "Who do I want least to face?" and play them. Also, other things being equal (they never are, bwth), some players generally seem to start better than others. Russkies ain't bad, for instance. This is the wrong topic for SSII, but hey, it's one great game, although with a few almost-fatal omissions, notably land and weather. (At least they gots a proper depth gauge, and in II, one doesn't slam into stray ships your lookouts casually overlook. I'll send you some email, ok? Jeez, Pearl, tough duty, I'm sure. As for taking a lone 4-inch against a Nip destroyer, no thanks, Kemo Sabe, after you. I do suffer the craze of trying to take out a convoy's escorts before making a meal out of the merchants, tho. Never did like the sound of depth charges. Unsporting way to fish, and all that. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 147 Sun Sep 19, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 23:58 EDT Hydraxxus, What Civ cheats do you know of other than the 'super settler' one? (I'm not an experienced game player, but I do enjoy Civ) Do tell, do tell! Matt ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 148 Fri Sep 24, 1993 J.GERMAN3 [Hydraxxus] at 04:33 EDT Jonsey I do the same thing when selecting a race to play sometimes. "Oh, I don't think I want the Zulus to be on my butt, I guess I'll play them" Though I have played the Germans more times than not (guess why) and the Romans are favorites also. I hadn't heard about the upgrades.....guess I'll keep my eyes open. Matt Super settlers is the only one I know of within the game. There is a file here that will allow you to cheat but after looking for it in my file listing I do not see it. I was supposed to give players something like 10000 wheels, but I tried it once and it boomeranged (gave all the other races money, I got nothing). There are many cheats for the IBM version (gasp...I used that horrid acronym) and even a program to allow you to do a little editing. Nothing like that for the Atari version. Many of the things I do in the game are just neat little tricks I picked up here and there, some have come from this topic, and they help out a lot (especialy science 100 at the beginning). I got bored with super settlers, it makes a game stretch out to near intolerability at times, so I learned how to win without them...slowly but surely I have been able to get better. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 149 Fri Sep 24, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 22:36 EDT Thanks Hydraxxus, Yeah, I remember the file that was supposed to give you a ton of bucks t start with. Didn't work for me either! I've just started adding game playing to the uses for my ST. I wind up playing Civ most of the time. Haven't been able to win above third level (Prince?) yet though. Usually, I prefer to create my own worlds. Gives me that ummm... feeling of creation! Later, Matt ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 150 Sat Sep 25, 1993 R.SKYBOY [Rick/HGR] at 20:26 EDT Don't know the version of Civ that I have. Will check it sometime. I pick the people that I play at random. At a whim, as it were. It makes it interesting. My first game, I played the Babylonians, and they ended in Space. (easy level, methinks.) ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 151 Sun Oct 03, 1993 J.GERMAN3 [Hydraxxus] at 17:22 EDT Matt, Civilization is one of those games that I find hard to stop playing once I get going. Quick questions: Do you strive for a certain technology or do you go for whatever's available to you? What are your favorite wonders? Do you prey on other races or make peace with them? ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 152 Sun Oct 03, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 23:58 EDT Hydraxxus- Well, I know I've passed up a good many hours sleep using my bombers to conquer the enemy! I haven't developed a set strategy yet. I _do_ like to get at least one barracks built so I can quickly produce veteran deffences. I guess I usually run the game like I do my life ... I make peace with everybody, until they give me reason not to. Then I take over one city at a time (well, sometimes I take a couple) pausing occasionally to send a diplomat in to offer peace, and demand $. If they say no, I take over more! Let's see... I also like to develop the wheel early, to use chariots for attack. Iron working for legions is good too. I think pottery is important to have so you can build the Hanging Gardens. It helps keep the population happy. I also like the Pyramids, because you can change gov't without revolution, and the great wall, as others always want to make peace with you when you have it. Lighthouse is good, if you can afford to create it and get a ship to the water before someone else builds it. There are plenty of good ones. I haven't tried to get to Alpha Centauri as fast as I can yet. I don't get time to play too often, and I'm still adjusting what I build based on what is going on in the cities. Of course, there are times (days) when I'm in a foul mood, and just want to crap on everything that's not 'mine'. ;-) Matt ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 153 Fri Oct 08, 1993 R.AVERYT2 [Mr. Ron] at 17:39 EDT What is the "Super Settler" cheat? How is it done? - Mr. Ron ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 154 Fri Oct 08, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 23:26 EDT Mr. Ron- If memory serves me well, the Super Settler cheat is as follows: Say you set your settlers to mine, build or irrigate. By double clicking on their icon you get it's small descriptive field onscreen. If you then click on the icon in the small field onscreen, you will re-activate the settler unit. (it will start to flash again) You then order them to do the same operation. You do this until it no longer flashes and the work is done. (Usually selecting the settler unit 6 or 8 times this way will finish the task) I don't use it very often. Well, sometimes when it's _very_ late and I just _have_ to finish those last few moves... If this wasn't clear, and no one else posts on it, I'll try to dig up the instructions someone sent me on the cheat. Matt ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 155 Sat Oct 09, 1993 J.GERMAN3 [Hydraxxus] at 17:19 EDT Matt, I have gotten to the point in a game where I know I am going to lose, so I started producing nukes and hit almost everything in sight! Let's see here.....seven enemy cities have been nuked, 4 carriers, one group of ships including two transports and one battleship that were attempting to land on my shores. I don't usualy build nukes and or battleships, but this game I decided to play spoiler. Both Babylonians and Egyptians are ahead of me and I won't be able to catch up. I don't like most of the early wonders, only two are realy usefull enough to spend the resources on.....Great Library and Pyramids. The others have their uses but I can not justify the expenditure. Great Library helps with technology and Pyramids allow the change in government that allows greater production. The others effects are just not enough for me to try to make. See ya, Hydraxxus ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 156 Sun Oct 10, 1993 J.GERMAN3 [Hydraxxus] at 19:08 EDT Mr. Ron The super settler cheat works as Matt described, but there is a bit more to making it work well. Under options set the end of turn mode to on so that the game will stop at the end of each turn, this way you won't miss any settler units. You can do a complete action with a settler unit in one turn instead of haveing to take several turns (the norm). I used it for a while and then gave up because I decided to beat the game on my own. I just got my butt stomped in king level, again. It seems I can win only one out of three games at king level (this is using no cheats). Maybe someday I will do better. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 157 Sun Oct 10, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 22:05 EDT Hydraxxus, Win one out of three as king? Gots me beat. Of the ones played to the point of foregone conclusion, I'm close, but that doesn't count all the ones "opted out of" due to goofs on my part. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 158 Sun Oct 10, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Kheldar] at 23:28 EDT Hydrazxxus, I onlyhave to add one more to your short list. The Hangingi Gardens are a "WONDER" that i try to get, but your are right, the Pyramids are the only REALLY important wonder i go for. Jim. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 159 Wed Oct 13, 1993 J.GERMAN3 [Hydraxxus] at 03:01 EDT Jonesy Last two I have played I won at King level. Forgot about emperor level, I just barely win at King! Beat the Babylonians by just a couple of years to Alpha Century. Kheldar I don't go for the hanging gardens, not enough benefits and I usualy discover invention rather quickly anyhow. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 160 Wed Oct 13, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 20:16 EDT Hydraxxus, Nice going! Haven't had any real spaceship races yet. If I'm too far behind, say in a game where I'm researching magnetism and somebody's cruiser shows up, followed by a transport dumping armor in my garden, I tend to bail out. Gotta love the way the program cheats - nine units in a transport. Sheesh. Just finished one where the Zulus built the Manhattan Project before I could. It was a squeaker - frantically building SDI, building a spaceship, and scrambling to wipe 'em out. With all that aggravation, I think I would've let 'em be, except they declared war with one of their battlewagons killing one of my caravans. At the end there was me (Americans, for a change), the Egyptians, and the Mongols (as a democracy, no less.) ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 161 Thu Oct 14, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Kheldar] at 02:03 EDT Hydraxxus, Yeah, those Babylonians are a drag. I was playing a game and it was about 1990. I had launched my space ship and was attacked by the Babs. I tried to take one of there cities and had lost 4 armor units before i examined the city. There were 23 military units in the city (armor, mech inf, and riflemen). So i nuked it. I ened up winning the game (one of my few wins on emperor level) and had crushed the stupid Babs before my ship landed. Jim. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 162 Thu Oct 14, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 04:46 EDT Kheldar, 23 military in one city? Oy. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 163 Sat Oct 16, 1993 J.GERMAN3 [Hydraxxus] at 02:15 EDT Jonesy I have never seen 23 military in one city before either. I suppose I would have nuked it myself (hoping for no SDI there). This brings up a question....what happens when a nuke hits a protected city? I have never seen it, have you? ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 164 Sat Oct 16, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 23:44 EDT Hydraxxus, Nope, never nuked a city protected with SDI. Being yet unwilling to attempt emperor level, I've not met any civs who've built SDI. Only used nukes in one game and have avoided them since; the clean up was a bit tiresome. I suppose there'll come a time to use 'em again, and I guess it'll call for lots of spare settlers. It could be I'm a bit unadventuresome, for unless I get a very good start, I tend to concentrate on building rather than taking. Unless, of course, a civ really ticks me off. Might be worth a shot, though, to see what it looks like. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 165 Sat Oct 16, 1993 R.AVERYT2 [Mr. Ron] at 23:51 EDT Matt, Hydraxxus - Thanks for the super settler info. I might not have to use it, but it could come in handy if I get desparate. I've been trying to win without cheats. I was beating king level without any cheats pretty consistently. Then I went to emperor level and started getting stomped consistently. But I finally got an emperor game going well by changing my approach to early expansion, and by playing the Zulus on Earth instead of an unkown world. I might be able to make it this time. - Mr. Ron ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 166 Sun Oct 17, 1993 C.KERNS [Craig] at 00:02 EDT While at the store where I originally bought Civilization today I got new copies of the disks that are shipping now. My original disks are labeled Disk 1, Disk 2, Disk 3, and Game Disk. The newer disks are labeled Disk A, Disk B, Disk C, and Game Disk. These are the differences that I found while comparing file names and sizes: Disk 1 and Disk A are identical. Disk 2 and Disk B are identical. Disk 3 SLAM1.LBM is 19456 bytes - Disk C SLAM1.LBM is 23594 bytes Disk 3 SLAM2.LBM has been changed to SLAM2.BBM on Disk C Old Game Disk GAME.PRG is 463,654 bytes New Game Disk GAME.PRG is 445,984 bytes Old Game Disk INSTALL.PRG is 18550 bytes New Game Disk INSTALL.PRG is 18592 bytes All the files on the old disks were dated 03/11/1993 and all the new ones are dated 05/21/1993. I did reinstall the game on my HD but haven't tested it out yet to see if it fixes my problems because I also picked up Lemmings 2 while at the store ;-) Hope this helps to pin down what versions you other folks have. -Craig ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 167 Sun Oct 17, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 04:03 EDT Mr. Ron, I like your idea of starting at the different levels on Earth first before going to new or custom worlds. It gives a reasonably known playing field and makes game comparisons easier. Emperor, eh? Too tough for me, still. Good luck! Craig, Thanks a bunch for that info! [scurrying off to examine disks] ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 168 Sun Oct 17, 1993 J.GERMAN3 [Hydraxxus] at 16:16 EDT Mr. Ron I have found games on Earth give you a certain advantage since not only do you know the land but also where to find the enemy in most cases. I have stopped using it and just let the computer make the world. I like finding new lands. I'm in the middle of a game where I started on an island that would fit only four cities so I had to go sailing. I was lucky to find a large plot of land unoccupied right next door and started colonizing it. The Romans gave me a hard time so I conquered them and then got the Babylonians who were more advanced than me but on a small island as well. Craig Let us know how the new disks work for you and what improvements there are. I might just upgrade myself if you find it worthwhile. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 169 Wed Oct 20, 1993 R.AVERYT2 [Mr. Ron] at 00:38 EDT Yeah, playing on Earth gives a definite advantage. That's the point. The game I have going now is the first one I've done on Earth. I find new unkown worlds more interesting. But I need the advantage for a while until I can get the hang of Emperor level. I just got the current disks from the place I bought my original version, too. Hopefully this will take care of the bugs I've encountered. It would be nice to able to save my scores into the Hall of Fame instead of crashing when I win the game. - Mr. Ron ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 170 Fri Oct 22, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 08:14 EDT I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts on choosing which civ to play and the number of civs chosen; I usually play the Russians with seven civs. Btw, I posted the following last night over in the MicroProse Technical Support topic in the games RT. Anyone care to place bets on my getting any kind of useful reply? Games RoundTable on 931022 at 06:46 Category 12, Topic 5 This letter was emailed over a month ago. I post it here in hope it may get a useful response. * * * * Hello, Quentin, Last month I bought Civ from a fellow here on GEnie - he'd played it out and was occupied with buying a printing business. I got it for a good price, which was a Godsend, as the dealer from whom I'd ordered it, and paid $66 to for it, went out of business; I could not afford another sixty bucks or so. Sorry for the long preamble; I've several questions: 1. Can the Civ people be talked with directly (via GEnie or Internet)? 2. Can you, or they, suggest the best method for registering as the new owner? (The former owner, an honorable guy, is willing to depute he retains no copy of Civ.) 3a. What is the best method for obtaining the current version? b. How do I tell what version I now have? 4. Is there a list of known bugs, fixed bugs, and work-arounds for bugs not yet squashed? The thing is, I've put over 150 hours of play time into Civ - how will I know which of the bugs I've met (and their attendant crashes and lock-ups) are known and/or fixed? (It's a tremendous program, so bugs are rather a given; it's just a shame there was apparently so little playtesting done.) Realizing this is a bit of a list, I thank you for your patience and consideration. Anxiously awaiting response, Jonesy P.S. Maybe it isn't obvious, but I think Civ is just about the best thing since sliced bread. Heck, better. Bread slicing is easy. * * * * I've since learned that fixes for the more severe bugs in the ST version are now available in the form of several new files and a revised game.prg file. Can someone from MicroProse present a compelling argument for not placing these in the library, as you've done for others? ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 171 Fri Oct 29, 1993 R.AVERYT2 [Mr. Ron] at 01:06 EDT I'm now using the version dated 5-21-93, which is what's currently in the stores. I don't know if that's actually the latest version. Has anybody seen anything later than that? So far I have found that this version fixes some goofy screen draws, such as the little pictures in the spy and embassy messages. The power graph lines are still all white. The attitude advisor still blows up when I have one city more than a full screen's worth. Once I forgot to raise the luxury level before calling a revolution, and the resulting multitude of cities in civil disorder caused a crash, the same way the original version did. At one point I had one city that would not let me open the city production screen for a while. After it finished what it was building at the time, I was able to access it again. I never had that problem with the old version. I have not yet won a game with this version, so I don't know if it gets through the hall of fame etc. without crashing. I have a winning game in progress, so I should be able to find out soon. - Mr. Ron ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 172 Sun Nov 07, 1993 R.WARREN9 [RON WARREN] at 01:13 EST This game is great,I can not stop playing I just got the updated disks and so far all the disk and program troubles have been fixed!. If you have disk and program crashes you need to send your disks to MICROPROSE LTD. THE RIDGE,CHIPPING SODBURY BRISTOL.BS17 6AY UGREAT BRITIAN CUSTOMER SERVICE TEL. 0454 329510 CUSTOMER SERVICE FAX # 0454 329507 The above good as of 10-25-93 The disks I got back were airmailed to me,the sevrice was very fast. RONALD WARREN ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 173 Thu Nov 18, 1993 A.CULLUM1 at 00:34 EST I think I saw a post about this earlier, but haven't seen any replies. So fool that I am, I thought I'd ask again. Has anyone managed to get Civilization working correctly on a Falcon? There seem to be two main problems (at least on my system). 1) The colors are all messed up and 2) Keystrokes are ignored. Its frustrating to be as close as having the game running, but not in a very playable state. I don't suppose that Microprose is coming out with a fix? Any help would be appreciated, Thanks, Andrew (ACULLUM1) ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 174 Sat Nov 20, 1993 M.WORLEY3 [Michael] at 20:18 EST Andrew, I sold my ST and bought a FALCON back in August. After months of being without Civilization, I finally got it to work last week using the latest version of BACKWARD! It corrects the color problem and the key problem. I think I got the demo version here on GEnie. In BACKWARD use preset #3 'TOS Patch only'. Let me know if this works. Also I'm using a SC1224 monitor. (Don't know if this matters). /\/\ichael / \ / \/\/orley ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 175 Sun Nov 21, 1993 V.BITOWF1 [VINCE] at 21:25 EST Try hitting your CapsLock key. I know that on an STe it won't recognise keystrokes if it is on. Maybe it's the other way around on the Falcon. ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 176 Sun Nov 21, 1993 A.CULLUM1 at 21:43 EST Thanks Michael and Vince, I'll give both a try. Andrew ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 177 Sun Nov 21, 1993 A.CULLUM1 at 23:47 EST Well, close but no cigar. The colors are right, but the keyboard still doesn't work. What version of Backward are you using Michael? I tried 2.22 and 2.23, but both had the same effect (this is with TOS 4.04 by the way). Do you remember what other settings you had turned on other than TOS Patches? Thanks, Andrew ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 178 Mon Nov 22, 1993 G.ZEPKA1 [Greg] at 19:52 EST Has anyone got an updated version or fixed version? Greg ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 179 Mon Nov 29, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 20:50 EST I've got a friend with a Falcon and Civilization and is having MAJOR problems with the combination. This is really messing them up as they really love their Falcon but are addicted to this game. Problem: They run the 'install' program and it loads the program to the internal hard drive with no problem. then they try to run it from the hard drive and get two bombs! They ARE able to run it from the original floppies, though SLOW. However, the color problem makes it unplayable. Any suggestions? They don't want to give up on their favorite game. They said they'd tried Backward but I notice that someone mentioned here that he got it to work with backward... any clues as to what version it was and more detailed directions on the settings needed? Thanks folks, let us know if anyone hears from Microprose on a Falcon update..... though I'm not holding my breath, they're not famious for long range compatibility worries. Gregg ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 180 Wed Dec 01, 1993 M.WORLEY3 [Michael] at 20:31 EST Category 9, Topic 6 Falcon030 Owners, Civilization is now working on my Falcon!!! Unfortunatly there's more things wrong with the game than just the Falcon. Here's some things I did to get it working. 1. Look on your disks for the file SLAM2.BBM. This file must be renamed SLAM2.LBM. 2. The INSTALL.PRG, Don't use it. The version I have will either crash, quit without finishing or miss some of the files. Copy the disks to a folder on your hard drive yourself. When you get a 'Name conflict' press 'skip'. 3. Versions: I bought my game back in April and the files are all dated 3/11/93. When I bought my Falcon I got another version of the game with files dated 3/08/93, 3/11/93 and 3/23/93. Some files were missing on the other version. There should be 111 files to the game, not including the game save files: CIVIL?.* . 4. BACKWARD V2.23: Here is the setup I use. Freq= 16 Mhz Caches= Both Tables= Kept TOS Patches= On Speaker= Off Hard disk= Off Blitters= 16 Mhz Errors= ST mode DMA Sound= Timer A Memory= 1 Meg I don't reboot I use install. I hope this helps! /\/\ichael / \ / \/\/orley Atlanta,GA -*- ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 181 Thu Dec 02, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 20:07 EST Thanks.... I'll send a copy of this on to my friends. What other problems have you had with this setup? PS: mind if I post your message in the next issue of Atari Explorer OnLine? In the AtariAsylum section. Gregg ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 182 Wed Jan 19, 1994 A.CULLUM1 at 22:39 EST Hi, I have a few questions for those of you who have succesfully gotten Civilization working on their Falcons. (I've gotten close: at 16 Mhz, it works fine up til choosing the number of nations. Once in the game, it thinks that the Return key is being held down. At 8 Mhz, the keyboard doesn't work). 1) What version of TOS are you using? (I've got 4.04) 2) What version of Civilization? (Mine's dated 3/11/93) 3) And, what kind of monitor do you have? (I'm using a Multiscan) Thanks for any responses... ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 183 Sun Jan 23, 1994 M.WORLEY3 [Michael] at 15:11 EST A.CULLUM1 I'm using TOS 4.04. My game files are dated 3/08/93, 3/11/93 and 3/23/93. I'm using a SC1224 monitor. I've got BACKWARD running in 16 Mhz. /\/\ichael \/\/orley ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 184 Sat Mar 05, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 18:10 EST OK, major problem. I am at 1000BC playing the Romans and I open one of the cities and hit change. Hard drive whirl and whirl and whirl. After five minutes I reboot. Restart from last saved game and about the same time it happens again. I reinstalled the program and still it happens. HELP!! ~~Brian..Written on Saturday 05 March 1994 at 07:06 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 185 Sat Mar 05, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 22:25 EST OK, some further information. I know now that turning off advisors should help but I DON'T WANT TO! Also, all the files on the disks are dated 05/21/1993. ~~Brian..Written on Saturday 05 March 1994 at 11:23 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 186 Sun Mar 06, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 00:39 EST Hi Brian, If your problem with Civ are not Hard Drive related, (bad sector, etc.) have you tried moving the .SVE files (saved game) to another directory and starting and saving a new game, then reloading that one? At least then you'll get some idea where the problem is. I've never had the problem, so ..sorry, I can't be of much help with it. Matt ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 187 Sun Mar 06, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 10:18 EST Thanks Matt. I read this whole topic again for the third time and found out the continuous drive whirling is a common problem. Other than turning off the advisor setting there is no cure mention. ~~Brian..Written on Sunday 06 March 1994 at 11:16 a.m. ADT ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 188 Sun Mar 06, 1994 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 15:23 EST Brian: nathan is playing this game. Did you notify him that this topic is alive and well?:-) Maybe I should. :-) ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 189 Sun Mar 06, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 17:01 EST Darlah, I hate to say it but Nate has play it more than me Darlah and I have had mine for four months! There are some good hints in the archives in the Games Rt but obviously more pertinent to ATARI information here {grin}. ~~Brian..Written on Sunday 06 March 1994 at 05:54 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 190 Wed Mar 09, 1994 C.GENTRY3 [Chris] at 01:03 EST I've had Civ for about 5 months now. I have a Falcon w/ 4.04. I got over the color problems and started getting good at the game. When I started to amass large cities and armies at one point I would click on a certain city and the game would crash. I've even won the game before w/ no problem minus the graphics when you put together your space station but I didn't really have many cities or great armies, I was just fortunate enough to destroy most of my competition at the start of the game. Anyway I recently tried to use Backward 2.22 and I can't even run that program with out it crashing the system. If someone has the time and would be kind enough to give a quick guide to setting this up, I'd really appreciate it. Yes I've read the instructions for Backwards but being a computer novice, there are some thigngs I don't understand. thanks, Chris ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 191 Fri Apr 01, 1994 K.HASAMA [Keith] at 08:26 EST To use Civilization on the Falcon, I copied the game disk & disk C to one disk, and disks A & B on a second. For some reason, I couldn't get the game to work right on the hard drive. I set up my Backwards configuration as : 1) Freq 16 mhz, 2) Caches data, 3) Except. moved, 4) TOS patches on, 5) Int. speaker off, 6) Hard disk off, 7) GEM on, 8) Blitter 16 mhz, 9) Errors spec., 10) DMA timer A, and 11) Memory 2 meg. There were also a couple of bug fixes that had to be put in first --I think that somebody earlier posted those. Keith ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 192 Fri Apr 22, 1994 D.HELMICK [Dan] at 19:45 EDT Would everyone please stop entering messages into this topic? Everytime it pops up in my scan for new messages, I have to go boot up CIVILIZATION again, and another night's sleep is lost. Dan ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 193 Sun Apr 24, 1994 M.WORLEY3 [Mike/Atlanta] at 04:56 EDT Dan, Dittos to what you said! I just started back playing this game again and I'm up all night trying to win kings level. /\/\ichael \/\/orley ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 194 Sun Apr 24, 1994 G.ZEPKA1 [Greg] at 13:36 EDT Dan, I sent my disks to England for upgrading and have not received them back yet (its been about 2 weeks), that way I will not play the game unless they come back. Greg ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 195 Sat Apr 30, 1994 S.LYSTER [Stu Lyster] (Forwarded) Civilization is an excellent game - unfortunately it has a couple of very obvious bugs - quite sloppy for a game of obvious technical merit. One bug is the "disk access" bug. Have you had the game simply try to access the disk over and over, and simply have to reboot? Join in here... you'll love the game, but be frustrated with its idiosyncracies. Must be a product for the Atari line of computers! ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 196 Sat Apr 30, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 20:33 EDT Stu Lyster - Can't say it's ever done that on my machine. (MEGA STe, 4 meg, TOS 2.05) Maybe I've been lucky?! Matt ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 197 Sun May 01, 1994 S.LYSTER [Stu Lyster] at 00:34 EDT On one of the Internet Newsgroups, there is quite a lot of talk about the "disk access" bug on Civilization. I have just joined this TOP, though, and was wondering if anyone has access to the fix? There are some dudes on Internet wanting to know! ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 198 Sun May 01, 1994 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 00:49 EDT >"disk access" bug on Civilization. I have just joined this TOP, >though, and was wondering if anyone has access to the fix? I heard rumor(s) that you can send the disks back to MicroProse in the UK for the fix. But I also heard rumor(s) from a different source that they will not mail you the upgrade if you live in the U.S. (But I could have heard wrong). There is also a version floating around that was fixed by someone else (let's say an independent group of not-quite-legal-programmers) that fixed that bug and several others. And please don't ask me for this as I do not have it, I only read some messages about it. :-} ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sunday, May 1, 1994 - 12:45:34 am ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 199 Sun May 01, 1994 S.LYSTER [Stu Lyster] at 10:25 EDT JEFF - ST'er - Re: rumours about fixing the bug in Civilization - yes, I have heard that rumour, too. A fellow on the Internet Atari newsgroup said that after contacting MicroProse in the UK (he's from Ohio), he was referred to their US office. He said that the people in the US office were well-meaning and nice, but told him to "mail the original disks to the UK." He then got back to the UK office who said that, as you say, "they will not mail you the upgrade if you live in the U.S." He, too, could be wrong - you know how rumours can be. Why don't these "not-quite-legal-programmers" send their fix to MicroProse? It would make it legal, and enhance a perfectly great game! Stuart Lyster ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 200 Sun May 01, 1994 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 13:22 EDT Stu, >their US office. He said that the people in the US office were >well-meaning and nice, but told him to "mail the original disks to the >UK." He then got back to the UK office who said that, as you say, >"they will not mail you the upgrade if you live in the U.S." Such great support from these companies. And they sit and wonder why not many of their programs are selling... >Why don't these "not-quite-legal-programmers" send their fix to >MicroProse? It would make it legal, and enhance a perfectly great >game! They proabaly did already and MicroProse proabaly just trashed it. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sunday, May 1, 1994 - 1:12:00 pm ------------ Category 9, Topic 6 Message 201 Sun May 01, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 14:21 EDT This "disc access" bug, am I assuming correctly it is only a problem with the floppy version and not when installed on the hard drive? Or is this the one when you had to rename one of the files? ~~~~Brian ... Written on Sunday 01 May 1994 at 03:00 p.m. ADT ------------