****************************************************************** This conference transcript is the exclusive property of the ST Advantage on DELPHI. Permission to reprint is granted only if this notice is included with the transcript and left unchanged. To get your own DELPHI account and join in on the many activities sponsored by the ST Advantage on DELPHI, please call 1-800-544-4005 and ask for Member Services. ****************************************************************** Gordie> Good evening, and welcome to DELPHI's ST Advantage. Tonight we're pleased to have Jim Allen, of Fast Technologies, as our guest for a Formal Conference. For those of you who don't about Jim, he is the creator of the T16 accelerator board, which makes your ST run at about twice the speed it used to before you installed the T16. And he is busy working on two newer, faster accelerators, the T20, an even faster version of the T16, and a 68030 board, that uses Motorola's 68030 chip to replace the stock 68000 chip. (There is a great deal more involved, but Jim can talk about that.) Please remember that this is not just some regular Tuesday night CO. This one is special. And because this is a _formal_ conference, we need to establish some formal CO ground rules, so let's get that done right up front. To maintain a semblance of order, we ask that you not "talk" until you've been given the floor by the conference moderator (me, Gordie).If you'd like to ask Jim a question, signal me by typing a question mark (?). Your name will then be added to a list, and I'll notify you when it's your turn to "talk". When you have the "floor", please keep your questions and comments as brief as is reasonable. (We like to keep things moving along quickly so that everyone gets a chance to participate.) When you've finished with what you have to say, signal the rest of us by typing GA (for Go Ahead). Some conference commands that you might find helpful include: /HELP Enter the CO help system. /NAME name To give yourself a CO nickname. /WHO To get a listing of members currently online. Finally, I need to remind everyone that the transcript resulting from this conference is the property of DELPHI. It may be freely reprinted and distributed, but we ask that you wait for the final edited version that will be available _soon_ in the databases. If for some reason, you just can't wait for the edited version, please contact me immediately, so that I can provide you with the notice that _must_ accompany any reprint of this conference. That said, is there anything you'd like to say first, Jim? FASTTECH> Sure, first I'd like to say it's nice to be on Delphi, I kept messing up appointments but finally got here!! Tonight, I'd like to answer questions about the TURBO20 and some about the TURBO030 that will be announced formally in a few days. The TURBO20 is our latest wonder, it is a 20Mhz 68000 accelerator, that uses a 16Mhz chip and a 20Mhz oscillator, and a number of neat tricks to get as much performance as possible out of the poor old 68000 chip ;-) It has been ported to the Amiga (ouch) and Mac, and will soon be THE premiere 68000 accelerator in the world. We've received some good news, that many of our European competitors have dropped out of the speedup business, so the T20 on the Atari has a bright future. An overview: The TURBO20 uses a static ram cache, a small high speed memory, plus the higher operating speed of a 20Mhz processor clock, to give your ST a boost to just over 2X performance in most typical real world uses. It has the ability to switch back to true 8Mhz to allow the use of older speed sensitive SW, and also has cache on/off, and video board caching on/off controls. Our STE adapter is planned to have the same autoswitching setup as the MegaSTE so that speed and cache on/off will be controlled by the new XCONTROL panel as if your STE was a MSTE. The videoboard caching on/off is used when a board like the Maxon MGE card, which has a coprocessor on it, is used. Caching is not allowed when "other" processors might be altering the data without the T20 knowing about it. The board is as long as the 68000, and about 3/4" wider. So it still fits everything, except the STacy is still a real pain... but doable. That's about it for features, we gave up on "fast rom" since the ROMS needed are just too expensive, and the speed increase isn't worth the cost. Take it away Gordie...! .Gordie> Okay, anyone have any questions? .Matt> Well, I was wondering if a T030 would fit in a STacy? .FASTTECH> Very doubtful to no ;-) But there will be a 520/1040 version of the T030 that will fit, it's about the size of a PCspeed. GA .Matt> When is it due out? .FASTTECH> Depending on how busy we are with the T030, by August. I'd like to show it at Dusseldorf, and ship by Sept. GA .Matt> ahh thanks. GA RMORROW> What kind of prices are you talking for a T030 or T20? I don't need a rocketship, just a dragster.. .FASTTECH> The TURBO20 is $329, the STE adapter is $49, and the TURBO030 is still in the air. .FASTTECH> The TURBO030 has two models, both 40Mhz units, with 68030 included. The low cost model has cache only, like the T20, but MUCH FASTER... it runs around 5X in speed improvement. It will retail for $849. The same board, with the ram circuit populated, has 4Megs or 16Megs of very, VERY fast static column ram (like the A3000) and will retail somewhere under $2000. So, it will be competitive with the "competition". It will also be quite a bit faster ;-) .Gordie> Can you grow the base model up to the high end model? .FASTTECH> The cache-only model can be upgraded... by FAST TECH... for the difference in price between the two units. The board is 5"x5" and is all surface mount design. It has seperate CPU & FPU clocks, the 50Mhz 68882 option is $300. The FPU operates at up to 75Mhz without any trouble!! The TURBO030 also has a 68000 chip onboard so you can run any and all ST Software when you want...just flip a switch ;-) .Dana> OK, Jim, business aside <>, now that the T16 is no longer available with a 520 w/ 2.5 megs, what would you recommend for the user who wants that occasionally needed extra speed running such things as DTP, etc., and if I upgraded to a MSTE, would I be able to port the accelerator to the new machine? FASTTECH> I'd buy a T20, Dana, and be very happy with it!! Occasional use is NOT what the TURBO030 is targeted at, the T20 makes much more sense, and will make your life much easier...newsletter-wise ;-) GA .Dana> hehe, would I be able to take the T20 out and move it to a MSTE? GA .FASTTECH> Yes Dana, you can move it to an STE, the MSTE is already accelerated, I'd sell the 520/T20 combo and get the MSTE when upgrade time came. GA .Dana> Thanks Jim. GA RMORROW> What's the difference between static ram and dynamic ram that you've been talking about? ga .FASTTECH> Dynamic ram is really only half the ram chip. The rest of the "chip" is made up of other ICs. By throwing out a lot of functions, you can pack many more bits in the chip. The downside is you need support circuits to keep things ticking. Also, simpler storage cell design saves space for even greater increases in how many bits the chip can hold. But refresh circuits that keep this simpler storage mechanism alive add to the over all complexity. Also, all this "off chip" stuff slows down the overall cycle time that a dynamic ram memory can have. Static rams use advanced storage techniques, and have everything required to be a ram onboard, so they're easier to use, faster, but much less dense. So you use Drams for large memory systems, and little SRAM caches to make those DRAMS look good ;-) At least that's the way the world works so far. GA RMORROW> Wow...Thanks. GA .Raven> I came in late, so I don't know if you covered this, but why would I want to buy a TURBO030 board as opposed to an SST? ga .FASTTECH> Simply because it's FASTER and has features that set it WAY apart. Some of this I won't talk about yet, but there are some very unique aspects to the T030. I wouldn't have done it if I thought there would be any question as to choice ;-) GA .Raven> Do you have benchmarks on both boards? How about cost difference? .FASTTECH> The benchmarks will be released in a week or so. I am licensing some software goodies for the roms that affect overall speed. Until that's settled, I don't want to go babbling numbers. .Raven> I look forward to the info. Could we get it put up online here? .FASTTECH> I can tell you the typical access time for ram is 75ns, with 275ns bursts where appropriate. The TT runs about 400ns bursts. Yes!! I will make sure it gets up here same day as GEnie... that's a promise. GA .Raven> Thank You. GA. .Dave> Jim, does the T20 come with a math coprocessor for us Spectre owners GA .FASTTECH> The 68000 chip uses the 68881/2 in a different manner than the 68030 chip does, so having one wouldn't help, unless you had software specifically written for it. Dynacadd is an example of an ST app that is written FOR IT. But you can get a JRI 25Mhz FPU board and add it to the T20... or buy it from me that way... and get an FPU. It won't help under Spectre though. That gets real complicated, SANE library stuff etc. GA .Dave> Thanks Jim. GA. .Schuylar> The speed you stated above for the TT? Was that with or without TTRAM, and will you be doing any boards for the TT? ga .FASTTECH> That's TTram... 400ns burst, the ST ram is 1 access (32bits) every 500ns time period just like the ST. Same as the ST, just 32bits wide ;-) I am waiting to see whether the TT will be pushed hard, if so I WILL do a combination TURBORAM/cache card for it. TURBORAM is what we call the ram on the TT030 and it has some unique aspects ;-) I believe Atari has done some good things to the TT very recently that will make it a much better product soon. GA .Schuylar> Thanks, ga .Gordie> When you mentioned the ability to change the speed and caching, is that software addressable, or is it a hardware thing? ga .FASTTECH> The T20 is set up for it to be HW only, the STE adapter will have the software control on it. The board just would have gotten too big otherwise. Most people will just use a HW switch to go between 20 and 8 at powerup. GA .Gordie> Is that STe adaptor shipping real soon now? Or did you actually get the info you needed? Finally. ga .FASTTECH> It is real soon now. I'm still waiting for the info. So I will just pull xcontrol apart and figure it out myself. I would have liked Atari to cough up the "standard" but that's a waste of time I guess. GA .Gordie> That's too bad. But... RMORROW> Are your products compatible with software accelerators like Quick ST? Is the effect additive? ga .FASTTECH> Yes!! In fact, TURBO20 is bundled with TURBOST, the super-duper SW accelerator. And a new version of TURBOST will be out this summer that is even better!!! The effect is definitely ADDITIVE. GA RMORROW> thanks ga FASTTECH> It's compatible with QuickST, but it comes with TST ;-) .Dave> How does PC Ditto run on the T20? GA. .FASTTECH> Good Question. The Floppy code is too speed sensitve, so I haven't been able to find out yet :-( I have someone working on a patch program to slow down the loops and make it stable again. GA .Dave> Thanks Jim, GA. JBEAU> I hate to be the one to ask blatant A or B questions, but I have been seriously looking at the ADSpeed from ICD... Would you care to mark the two side-by-side? .FASTTECH> B...that's my favorite. I don't like to cut into "other" products. I can simply say the T20 is faster, and we've been at this a lot longer. GA JBEAU> How about $ comparison? .FASTTECH> The T20 is $329, the Adspeed is around $249? I think, but mailorder can have a drastic affect on price. It's a case of $ for MPH ;-) JBEAU> Which do you think would be easier for a person like ME to install or are both meant for a dealer to do? .FASTTECH> It's a tie on the install. Both need the 68000 yanked, and that is NOT for the faint at heart. We sell through lots of dealers that have good techs for the install. GA JBEAU> I am, like Dana, a serious DTP worker... and the accelerator is guaranteed to work with big programs like CALAMUS with no :( ? .FASTTECH> It makes Calamus scream!!! It's only some games and really speed sensitive utility software... like floppy formatters... that can be adversely affected.... and Spectrum of course ;-) JBEAU> :) GA .Gordie> How about Pagestream? ga .FASTTECH> Pagestream, too... all the major apps have never had trouble with accelerators. GA .Raven> If we bought an accelerator from a mail order outfit that did not install, could we send it to you? How much, how long? .FASTTECH> I have done this rarely. It's not something we want to make a policy since it is very time consuming. We can refer you to any one of a dozen great dealers that will do fast turn around in the $50-75 range plus shipping. GA .Raven> Sounds good. GA .FASTTECH> STE installs WILL be user installations!!! Just plug it in!!! GA .Dave> So T20 STE installs are as easy as SIMM installs , how come? GA .FASTTECH> Not quite as easy, you need to take off one more shield, but the 68000 is in a SOCKET!!! Yeah!!! GA .Gordie> Really, Jim? My 68000 is socketed? Cool. .FASTTECH> So far ;-) .The Lone STacy> Well, back to the Stacy, the 520 T30, what is the difference between this one and the two you mentioned . GA .FASTTECH> The Tiny TURBO030 is a cache-only version that is very tiny, hence the name. This is our finest effort in minaturization, and even the ROMs with TOS 2.0X are little SMD chips! And the price will be around $599...don't hold me to it though ;-) .The Lone STacy> sounds...small :) What will be the speedup? .FASTTECH> Actually smaller than the PC Speed board. It has to be to fit all models. GA .The Lone STacy> Will it give say 3x my prsent speed? GA .FASTTECH> The worst case on the cache-only board is 3X... actually 60% in pure memory movement like QIndexs scroll test... but 5X in most real world stuff, like scrolling or redrawing in Calamus, etc. Surprisingly quick actually. GA .The Lone STacy> WOW! Could make a real handy portable. Thanks. GA .Gordie> Will the Tiny TURBO030 work with the STe's. ga .FASTTECH> That's the idea Gordie, to fit in all ST(e)s and work. As an example, load a 300K 7,000 line file into Tempus...already quite fast... an ST takes 22 secs to scroll to the end of the file, the cache-only T030s take only 4.5 secs!!! It's scary from such a small setup. .Gordie> Great. Another way to get a headache with my ST. RMORROW> Will owners of T16's be able to upgrade to T20's, like Atari Canada's 8-bit-for-ST deal? ga .FASTTECH> Yes, the current T16 owners get $89 off he T20 price, the offer is extended to Sept 30th... since there are few mags to get the word out in...and you get to keep the T16 ;-) Just send it back to be "marked" Only one upgrade per T16 ;-) There will be such a deal on the TURBO030 board also!! More $$ off of course ;-) GA RMORROW> thanks..ga .Dave> Jim, the Tiny Turbo is a cache-only board; does this mean the only diff between that and the T20 is the 030 and TOS 2.0X chips. Does it still use 32K of cache memory? The 030 speeds it up that much, wow!! GA. .FASTTECH> Yes Dave, the Tiny T030 adds the 030... still has a 68000!! And the TOS ROMs, and adds just $270...don't hold me to that ;-) .Dave> Thanks Jim, see you at Atari Day! GA. L_RYMAL> Hi Jim, I'm slightly confused. Is the Tiny T030 upgradeable on memory like the Turbo030? ga .FASTTECH> No, it has no DRAM memory, it just speeds up your ST using cache memory. The whole DRAM system uses far too much space to squeeze under the hood of a 1040 ;-) GA .Gordie> Okay, so you're saying you have 4 products. The Turbo20, the Tiny Turbo030, the naked Turbo030, and the full-dress Turbo030. Is that right? And the approximate prices are, $330 for the Turbo20, tentatively $600 for the Tiny Turbo030, $900 for the naked Turbo030, and under $2000 for the Full-dress Turbo030? .FASTTECH> That's about it. GA SCOTTJ> Jim, is it possible to add a 68040 to the ST or at least to a TT? .FASTTECH> It is possible. I have made arrangements with a Mac accelerator company to license their ASIC chip for the ST market. It would make an 040 daughter board for the T030 a much simpler job. But it will be an expensive proposition for a few more months. I would expect Atari themselves to be working on such a thing for the future. Let's hope! ;-) GA SCOTTJ> How much would it cost? Will we see it anytime soon? GA .FASTTECH> Chips like that don't cost a lot, the 040 costs ;-) I won't even start to worry about it until fall, but the T030 is definitely setup with that in mind for the future. GA SCOTTJ> What about a RISC Chip, like the 88k or Sparc? I've heard that there are 68000 emulators for them. GA .FASTTECH> Won't happen, software is the trouble. There is always Sun though ;-) Yes, an emulator would do the job, but the machines cost $$... $5K minimum. GA SCOTTJ> Thanks. Jim. .Gordie> Well, Jim, it's getting pretty late, so I'll try to wind this down. .FASTTECH> Okay by me. GA .Gordie> Would you say something about how you perceive the future of the ST/TT's here in North America? ga .FASTTECH> Not if my life depended on it ;-) .Gordie> hehehe. .FASTTECH> Actually, the ST is still a good value, it does the job... whatever the job is... and so as a purchase I'd recommend it. But if you can afford a Mac, it's mighty tempting ;-0 GA .Gordie> Yes, reality does intrude at times, doesn't it? .FASTTECH> Yep. .Gordie> Well, that about wraps it up. I'd like to thank Jim for joining us here on Delphi, and I'll see about getting him here on a more regular basis. If the rest of you don't mind, of course. .Matt> .Gordie> Any closing comments, Jim? .FASTTECH> Nope, just thanks a bunch for inviting me, I really enjoyed the visit. I'll try to make it by more often, and will put up the T030 intro when I do GEnie!! Bye folks!!! .Gordie> This CO is officially over. *** Again, thanks to JBEAU for doing most of the gruntwork in editing this transcript. His work saved me a couple of hours of staring into my Omnimon. My eyes appreciate it! --Gordie (aka BIBLINSKI) ***