========================================================================= (C) 1994 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 19 Wed Jun 30, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 15:20 EDT Sub: Geneva - Multitasking Environment The following topic will cover messages and discussions regarding GENEVA, the Multitasking Application Environment from Gribnif Software. 213 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 1 Mon Jan 17, 1994 J.FOUCH [JIM FOUCH] at 20:09 EST I was wondering if anyone else using Geneva release 002 or 003 has been having the same problems I am having. I am using UIS v3.32 on a TT/030 Tos 3.06, TT high Rez. Problem #1: After using the syatem for a while I have trouble, when in UIS, selecting a new path or selecting a file by double clicking on it. I am not sure if it a mater of time or if it happens only once I have used other programs. My main programs are GFA BASIC 3.0, GShell, PageStream 2.2b, Neodesk 3.04. If I do a cold boot, I can use UIS with no problems. Then after a while the problem comes back. Problem #2: I can't seem to get the SETMOUSE program to work correctly. I used the install program provided with release 003. I set the mouse to the standard Atari mouse and the busy mouse to the spining thing. The first time I rebooted, every thing went fine execpt NeoDesk did not load as the shell, even though I told the Install program where it was. I moved the Shell command in my GEM.CNF file to the end of the file. Now I get NeoDesk to load as the shell correctly. But, now my mouse has gone back to the #D type with the hour glass for the busy mouse. I have edited my GEM.CNF file many times with no good results. If I get NeoDesk to load the mouse does not reset correctly. And, if I get the mouse to work, then NeoDesk does not load as my Shell. Here is a copy of my GEM.CNF file. It is located in "C:\GENEVA\". # GEM.CNF: written by INSTALL.PRG # setenv ACCPATH=C:\ setenv PATH=.,C:\GENEVA,C:\GENEVA\SETMOUSE setenv ACCEXT=ACC,ACX setenv GEMEXT=PRG,APP,GTP,EXE setenv TOSEXT=TOS,TTP setenv SHOWHELP=C:\GENEVA\HELP\GNVAHELP setenv TOSRUN=C:\GENEVA\GNVA_TOS.PRG # Other commands: # run Runs a program with parameters # runsleep Runs program, puts it to sleep # shell Runs program as the shell # shell C:\NEODESK3\NEODESK.EXE run C:\GENEVA\SETMOUSE\SETMOUSE.PRG # end of GEM.CNF If anyone can help I would be very glad. thanks, Jim Fouch ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 2 Mon Jan 17, 1994 J.WILES1 at 20:19 EST Al, For some unknown reason, PageStream works fine with only NeoDesk but doesn't exit very well when run under Geneva even if NeoDesk is not run as the shell. As a matter of fact, I just tried PGS after booting up with only Poolfix4 - Jar10 - Geneva - Taskman ACC and still got strange characters in the menu bar upon exiting and memory was fragged. I also got 3 bombs and a total lockup. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy having Geneva in my auto folder and rarely boot without it. But for now, when I plan on using PGS, I'll just boot without Geneva till I can figure this one out. Three evenings of debugging a system gets a little old after awhile. Jeff ---- Dan, One other user responded with having these same problems when running PGS, NeoDesk and Geneva. Any clues? Jeff ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 3 Mon Jan 17, 1994 Y.DUFRESNE [Y.Dufresne] at 21:01 EST Yes it is me, Al. I got to change my nickname, any suggestions? Hey, Did you wrote that Studio Photo was working? I d/l the demo and it freezes whenever I click right to get the tool pop-up menu. The menu draws but does not respond to any mouse action. Are the Compo guys aware of this? Thanks, Yanick @ CGA ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 4 Mon Jan 17, 1994 S.SWENA at 22:38 EST Is the following, a known/already reported, bug(interaction) between Geneva 003 and STeno v2.00? If not, does anyone know of flag settings or options that would prevent this problem. Some time ago someone reported that they were having trouble with the "drag mouse" method for marking a block of text in STeno.ACC. The report indicated that, instead of scrolling one line at a time, STeno was scrolling a page at a time rapidly when the mouse is drug off the bottom or top of the window. As if the ALT key was being held down. I noticed that this happens if the "Caps Lock" is on, with or without the ALT key. STeno.ACC does not behave this way if launched with the TOS v3.06 Desktop or from NEOdesk without GENEVA 003. I also noticed that the "Full Box" does not work when the "Caps Lock" is on. The window gadget moves in when you click on it but no change in window size. Release the Caps Lock and everything is normal again. Configuration: TT030(TOS3.06), TTM195 monitor, No ACC's other than STeno v2.00 and STalker 3.02. Geneva 003 from AUTO folder launching NEOdesk and the ACC's. Stanley Swena ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 5 Mon Jan 17, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 22:52 EST On the topic of PgS... I run PgS only occaisionly these days, but I have noticed the strange characters in the menu bar, after quitting PgS, before the menu bar in the NeoDesktop is redrawn. On my machine, there is no difference in memory fragmentation after I quit out. Same number of blocks as pre-launching, and no change in the size of the largest block reported. Guess I'm lucky... no bombs or lockups. Machine is a 4 meg MSTe, TOS 2.05, Geneva (003) uses NeoDesk (3.04) as shell, along with a plethora of AUTO prg's and ACC's. Matt ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 6 Tue Jan 18, 1994 M.POCHE [Mick] at 00:38 EST I have been using PageStream quite a bit lately under Geneva with no problems. I've been loading it through NeoDesk. I'm using a MegaSTE 4, TOS 2.05, Geneva 003 & NeoDesk 3.04, and a full compliment of ACC's and AUTO folder programs. No signs of memory fragmentation after quitting PgS. One program (accessory actually) that just plain refuses to work for me is the IMPORT2.ACC that strips CR's from text files. It just won't load into the system. No bombs or anything, just a screen redraw. Any ideas on this one anyone? - Mick ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 7 Tue Jan 18, 1994 S.AGARWAL [SANJAY] at 00:55 EST I have the same problem as Jim Fouch with UIS and Geneva, using TOS 3.06 and TT med resolution... Sanjay. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 8 Tue Jan 18, 1994 THOMPSON2 [STYVWERX] at 01:40 EST I was having all kinds of problems with Release.003, until I took GemRam and Winx out of my Auto Folder on my TT tos3.06, both in Medium and High TT res. Mo' Betta' Now! ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 9 Tue Jan 18, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EST Phil, Something is amiss. Your system is pretty close to one of the two here, used throughout the beta cycle to test versions of Geneva, and I did not see problems like you describe. (The ST here is TOS 1.04, AdSpeed, 4 megs, Neo 3.04.) Speedo takes up memory based not only the RAM taken by Speedo's font engine itself but on the size of the font cache. You don't need a font cache if your hard drive is reasonably fast; Speedo will use the HD for a cache. (That's one of those Secrets of Speedo that somebody might one day write about....) I'd bet that a confused version of NeoDesk is causing many of your problems. You must have the latest RSC files for Neo 3.04. Check to make sure you don't have a mix of old and new Geneva files, also. (The fact that you get "f0a" in the NeoDesk desk-menu entry is a giveaway to a munged Neo file.) Chris, Sure, send a snapshot of the screen. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 10 Tue Jan 18, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:18 EST Jim and Sanjay, What happens when you are not using UIS? Run with the built-in item selector for a while and let me know what happens. I'm not a UIS user (sorry, but I've seen it demoed and didn't like it), but it has not caused problems like these in other installations. But running without it will give us an idea of whether it's contributing to the problem. SETMOUSE has been working fine on the TT and the ST here through many beta versions and release versions of Geneva. I have mine set to run before the SHELL command, although that should not matter at all. I have a SETMOUSE.DAT file that supplies the shapes; are you using a DAT file with SETMOUSE? Jim, There's a good chance that your Neo files may be mixed up, too. Does NeoDesk behave properly when SETMOUSE is commented out of the GEM.CNF? Yanno, Studio Photo does indeed lock up on my system, too. I had never tried the toolbar (since I've only tried the demo, and didn't figure the toolbar would work anyway). When I tried it as you suggested, the system locked up. I hope Compo and Gribnif can work this out. SP seems like an excellent piece of work otherwise. Stanley, I just duplicated all of the problems you reported with STeno on my TT. Dan? Mick, UNFORMAT.PRG will strip the CRs, if you need a utility to replace IMPORT2. Styv, WINX isn't needed by Geneva, and in fact just slows things down. (Geneva's window limit is the same as WINX's limit.) GEMRAM is supposed to dump ROM code into RAM so that the ROMs can be altered, and has no real way of knowing that Geneva has already done its stuff. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 11 Tue Jan 18, 1994 S.AGARWAL [SANJAY] at 20:31 EST Al, No problem with the built in file manager, just UIS. I wish the one with Geneva was as comprehensive as UIS. Sanjay. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 12 Tue Jan 18, 1994 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 21:06 EST Does anybody know why when PageStream is loaded, the screen colors always goes to black regardless of the program settings?. Dan, In the Task Manager, the flag settings, when you get to the last program setting - if you hit 'Next' X times you have to hit 'Prev' the same number of X times to get the program to change. And if you do a 'Save Settings', Geneva will save them to Geneva.CNF. Please see the example below, when I got to the first SQUISHII.APP, I hit 'Next' 10 times and I had to hit 'Prev' 10 times to get back to FOLDER3.PRG. And I also saved the settings. {GOGO_ST.PRG} {GoGo ST 5.00} FBA80000 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 {EDGE.PRG} {Diamond Edge} A3380000 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 {FOLDER3.PRG} {Folder Sorter} B200000 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 {SQUISHII.APP} {Squish II} 7B080000 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 {SQUISHII.APP} {Squish II} 7B080000 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 {SQUISHII.APP} {Squish II} 7B080000 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 {SQUISHII.APP} {Squish II} 7B080000 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 {SQUISHII.APP} {Squish II} 7B080000 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 {SQUISHII.APP} {Squish II} 7B080000 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 {SQUISHII.APP} {Squish II} 7B080000 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 {SQUISHII.APP} {Squish II} 7B080000 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 {SQUISHII.APP} {Squish II} 7B080000 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 {SQUISHII.APP} {Squish II} 7B080000 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Tuesday, January 18, 1994 - 8:58:30 pm ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 13 Tue Jan 18, 1994 Y.DUFRESNE [Papageno] at 21:27 EST Yanno!?# I'll pass on that one... What about this one? Yanick @ CGA ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 14 Tue Jan 18, 1994 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 23:13 EST Dan, Several other things with Geneva: 1) With the corner clock turned on via the Neodesk control panel. Any application that is installed with the corner clock flag turned off, the clock stays on. 2) With Spelling Sentry loaded, Pagestream cannot find any printer drivers, nor load in any printer drivers. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Tuesday, January 18, 1994 - 11:05:38 pm ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 15 Tue Jan 18, 1994 C.NICHOLLS [BILL] at 23:32 EST Help, I tried removing a few accessories that I didn't need to save memory, which incidentally left the largest block much as before, and when I next re-booted started to get persistent messages that not only Steno but much worse the TASKMANER could not find their resource files. This caused the computer to freeze on boot-up and require a reset. I have tried re-installing both GENEVA and TASKMAN.RSC from the master disk, but it doesn't help. I have tried to set an environment for the Taskmanager resources file, but I'm not sure I know how to do it, and anyway it didn't need it up to now. I have run out of ideas. Bill ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 16 Wed Jan 19, 1994 C.NICHOLLS [BILL] at 01:50 EST Further to my post of earlier this evening, after trying a few more things, I find that the problem is with GEM.CNF. I had edited it with STENO, and inserted the setenv for the DESKCOPY programs as specified in the docs. I now find that I get the crash with TASKMAN.RSC on loading if I make any change at all with Steno to the version of GEM.CNF that came with release .003, other than to uncomment the command to run NeoDesk as the shell. I have not had this problem before. It is a nuisance, as I have a folder for desk accs beyond the allowed six in DeskManager, and although I was previously loading too many, I may need more than six. Before today I could get Geneva to load up the contents of this folder as well as the accessories specified in DeskManager. Can anyone suggest what has gone wrong? ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 17 Wed Jan 19, 1994 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 02:12 EST D.MCANDREW Check to see if you have your library set to a specific topic. You might want to set your library to "ALL LIBRARIES". That might be the problem you are having. Steve Blackburn ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 18 Wed Jan 19, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 02:27 EST Jeff, How do you 'correctly' install an app to turn off the corner clock in a multitasking situation? As soon as you run another concurrent app with the flag set differently, the clock will reappear. --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 19 Wed Jan 19, 1994 JRH [Roger] at 06:30 EST Jeff, I too have been running PageStream under NeoDesk and Geneva. I do not have any problems with it at all. Use it on almost a daily basis. I have switched between it and STraight FAX to create and send FAXes, make small changes to my document, and resend to a different recipient - again with no problem. My system is a TT030, monochrome monitor. I have not payed attention to the question of memory fragmentation. With 20 Megs of RAM I have stopped worrying about that. :-) Roger ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 20 Wed Jan 19, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:45 EST Sanjay, What does UIS do that the G item selector doesn't? (I'm serious.) Y., How 'bout THAT one? It's shorter! Bill, Did you word-wrap GEM.CNF? if so, any line that is broken won't be read by Geneva properly. Set STeno to word-wrap OFF, then check all the lines. (They won't fix themselves if they are broken; you'll have to do it.) I bet that's the problem. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 21 Wed Jan 19, 1994 S.AGARWAL [SANJAY] at 20:08 EST Al, UIS enables me to rename files and see upto 128 files at a time. UIS can also be accessed instantaneouslym (as an *.ACC), rather than having to leave the program I am working on to access the Geneva manager and then to select open. Sanjay. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 22 Wed Jan 19, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 22:06 EST Al, What does UIS do that the G selector doesn't? So far, I've found only one thing. UIS will allow the user to view/alter the show/hide status of any file, and allows for 'hidden' files to be visible (greyed out) in the selector. I may have missed this option in the G selector, and I have not gotten back to the manual to check, but I don't remember it's being available in G. I started booting without the UIS a short while ago, using the ACC to call G's selector. Up until I wanted to move some 'hidden' files, I didn't miss the feature. Gee, I guess you never _do_ miss 'em till they're gone! Oh, there is one more thing.... compatability with the glorious DC_RT_DC.PRG. I haven't used UIS in a while, but it seems I'm doing a lot more left-double clicks than I used to do! My pointer finger has gotten a bit rusty. Matt ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 23 Wed Jan 19, 1994 R.PLAGGENBUR [Ralph / WA] at 22:59 EST Al & Dan, Re: Analyze Even in single tasking you have to count to 5 between each keystroke or mouse click, otherwise it doesn't keep up. Ralph ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 24 Wed Jan 19, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 23:54 EST Sanjay, I know this isn't a _total_ answer, but you can use CALLUIS.ACC to access any fileselector. So if you run it w/o UIS it should access the Geneva one. I know because I loaded it once w/o running UIS by mistake. Wayne - Wednesday, January 19, 1994 - 08:41 p.m. PST ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 25 Thu Jan 20, 1994 C.NICHOLLS [BILL] at 00:52 EST Al, Thanks, I almost certainly was using word-wrap with Steno. On the other hand, I don't remember any lines being broken. I will check and report if it makes any difference to turn it off anyway. Matt, UIS III will format disks. But there many other perhaps better ways of doing that, such as the NeoDesk desktop. I also find I don't miss the ability to show files in the file selector. I just drag the file to the Steno icon on the ND desktop nowaways. For the moment, I like using the Geneva file selector better. Bill ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 26 Thu Jan 20, 1994 T.HORNIG [Thomas] at 00:58 EST Joe, I had the same problem with Atari Works and Geneva here's what I did to solve it: First of all I reeinstalled Speedo Gdos which solved the font problem (no idea why) second you have to disable the screen acceleration in Warp9 by putting the command WORKS.PRG A0 into the Warp9.DAT file. Ever since I've done this I have had no more problems Thomas ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 27 Thu Jan 20, 1994 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 01:06 EST Kevin, >How do you 'correctly' install an app to turn off the corner clock in >a multitasking situation? As soon as you run another concurrent app >with the flag set differently, the clock will reappear. This is a function of NeoDesk, when you install a application or program, you can set numerous flags and the corner clock is one of them. But the point was that the clock was turned off for PageStream and when PS is run, the clock does not disappear like it should. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Wednesday, January 19, 1994 - 8:38:32 pm ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 28 Thu Jan 20, 1994 C.NICHOLLS [BILL] at 01:51 EST Al, I _think_ I've found the answer to my Steno and TASKMAN.RSC problem. My copy of Steno seems to have got corrupted. To-night it would not load and totally fragmented the machine's memory while refusing to load. This was a bit scary at first, because the fragmentation was extreme, largest block 1K, and it survived a warm boot. I also found that if I put Steno into the list of accessories to be loaded at boot-up, it froze the machine precisely on the loading of TASKMAN.RSC. I replaced Steno from the floppy, and now all seems to be well with Steno. So I did try editing the GEM.CNF file without word-wrap on and again the machine booted up successfully and the GEM.CNF file remains as edited. So with some trepidation I will risk saying all is now well as before. Thanks for suggesting STeno as the culprit, even though it was to blame in a much more radical way than you thought. Intuition, perhaps? Bill ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 29 Thu Jan 20, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EST Sanjay, The G item selector lets you rename files. (Someone else complained that it didn't allow this, and I looked in the manual to make sure I hadn't left it out, and there it was. The Info button brings up a text-input line where you can type in the new name.) I suppose those of us who are MaxiFile users aren't impressed by UIS, for good reasons. Maxi and the G selector make a good combination. I press the a keypad hotkey and Maxi pops open; I press another one and the G item selector pops open, courtesy of CodeKeys. But I agree; Dan would be adding a great feature if the item selector had its own hotkey. Matt, I use the DC-right-click utility, too. Would not be without it. As I said above, Maxi takes care of all the heavy-duty file stuff, and from what I have seen of UIS, MaxiFile is an eon ahead of it in every way. Ralph, What's Analyze? What's the delay problem again? Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 30 Thu Jan 20, 1994 M.MOTOGAWA [MEL] at 11:08 EST Al, I think Analyze was an old spreadsheet (back in the days when the VIP Professional spreadsheet reigned supreme) that was a junior version of the Masterplan spreadsheet (or vice versa)? - Mel ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 32 Thu Jan 20, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 13:06 EST Bill, Make sure that you repair any lines that are broken. BTW, Steno will display long lines just fine, even with word wrap on, but as soon as you enter one character on a line, it will wrap it. Programmers always turn off word wrap (or use non-wrapping software) because of the danger of wrecking code. I see from your later post that the problem was more extreme. I have noticed oddities when STeno loads too quickly (although that is not a technical explanation, for sure!). Thomas, You don't need to turn off screen acceleration if you have the upgraded version of Warp 9. JSW, Kevin was merely pointing out that the Neo clock is not able to turn on and off in any reliable way in a multitasking system. SDS-Zeit can be turned on and off with a keypress at any time, if you want to switch to it. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 33 Thu Jan 20, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 13:23 EST Well... It can be turned on & off reliably, but you can't reliably turn it on & off based on what program was launched. :) Or eventually, you could make a way to turn it off for just the time that the app in question is in the foreground (which IMO is next to useless), or turn it off if a certain app is active in the system. For now... just switch it manually. :) Thanx Al. The long days & little sleep and hurry are affecting my posts. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 34 Thu Jan 20, 1994 D.HELMICK [Dan] at 13:38 EST Am I missing a trick here? I can't seem to get my computer to keep time under Geneva and Neo; when loaded as accessories, XControl and SDS-Zeit don't move beyond the time registered at bootup, and the screensaver TT Artist doesn't kick in at all. Is there some flag or other environmental variable I should be setting? Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 35 Thu Jan 20, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 18:23 EST Jeff, When you run PS or any program in multitasking mode under G, NeoDesk 'returns' immediately. Therefore, it will turn the clock back on. Did you try setting PS as a single tasking app? Did the clock stay on then? --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 36 Thu Jan 20, 1994 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 18:58 EST Jeff - ST'er, About PageStream colors turning to black when loading. That's PageStream, not Geneva. That happens all the time. If you have colors.cpx, just reload the CPX's from CONTROL.ACC (while in PageStream) and the colors will return to whatever palette you have set up. Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 37 Thu Jan 20, 1994 W.TURCZYNSK1 [Bill] at 20:06 EST Anybody: I'm finally catching up to all my updates and I've run into a problem with Geneva Release 003. I have Avalon, a sampling editor. I ran v2.00 with Release 002 and it works with 003. I just lately got v2.1 of Avalon. When I try to load it, I get "FATAL ERROR IN GENEVA: GEMDOS called recursively". I removed all ACCs and left only Geneva, JARXX, POOLFIX, FOLDER100 and SERFIX in my AUTO folder. I still get the same thing. I was able to run CuBase from Steinberg/Jones under 003, a first but lost out on this S/J product now. I'm unable to bypass Geneva by holding the [Alternate] key. Was this was changed in 003? [Bill] ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 38 Thu Jan 20, 1994 R.PLAGGENBUR [Ralph / WA] at 21:26 EST Al, Analyze is a spreadsheet program, now while it may be OLD (1986) other than LDW Power there's nothing else. Then there's the problem of the best program could be the first one you learn on, and is already paid for :-) The problem is : when you move around the screen, cell to cell, using either arrow keys or the mouse, the program slows down to where you must wait 5-6 sec before you can hit the arrow key again. Otherwise nothing will happen. Ralph ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 39 Thu Jan 20, 1994 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 21:59 EST >About PageStream colors turning to black when loading. That's >PageStream, not Geneva. That happens all the time. If you have I hate to say this, but Pagestream only does this when Geneva is loaded in. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thursday, January 20, 1994 - 9:44:26 pm ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 40 Thu Jan 20, 1994 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 23:56 EST Jeff - St'er, Gee, that's odd. I just tried it with NeoDesk, and without Geneva. Same thing. I might have misunderstood you, what I get when PageStream loads is a gray "desktop" with black bordered bar at the top of the toolbox. You might be talking about the colors available to PageStream. May not be able to help you there. I have Crazy Dots, and colors don't work as advertized for me with Crazy Dots. I'm supposed to be able to use 256 colors (like in TT low rez) I'll check the colors with Geneva and try again. Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 41 Fri Jan 21, 1994 M.POCHE [Mick] at 02:49 EST Jeff & Tom Jr., Ever since upgrading PageStream to 2.1, I have always had one of my colors turn black when PgS is loaded up. A reload of the colors from the CPX is my only cure. It has absolutely nothing to do with Geneva from my experience. - Mick ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 42 Fri Jan 21, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:22 EST Thanks, Mel. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 43 Fri Jan 21, 1994 M.SQUIRE [Mike] at 05:12 EST Matt, The greatest problem with the Geneva file selector is that it only allows you to specify 10 paths. That's why I'm sticking with the Little Green Selector with its 18-path capacity for now. ... Mike Squire ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 44 Fri Jan 21, 1994 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 10:39 EST Al, John, Mario (of DMC fame) mentioned to me that I shouldn't use Pinhead. He said that it causes some problems with Calamus. I've also read statements from people stating that it shouldn't be used. Then fastloading programs wasn't recommended for whatever reason was given at the time. So...I assumed that it was causing problems, and I've got enough gremlins running around inside my system as it is. I use Warp 9, but have it running near the end of the loading sequence, so that doesn't help me during booting. I thought this was where it should go. Tosfix and Pool fix run first to avoid some sort of "trapped vector syndrome" they suffer from, and then Jar and Geneva must go next. I think I even turned the fastload feature off in Warp 9. I've reinstalled Pinhead in the beginning of the boot sequence and everything seems fine (although Calamus seems to lock up a bit more now). So what to do? Should I run Pinhead in the auto folder or from Warp 9? Thanks for all the help....Steve Ralph, You can't exit from Geneva when you boot it from the auto folder. You can however run G from the desktop (from Hotwire perhaps) and do your multi- tasking thing and then exit G back to Hotwire. Don't forget to run JAR before you try to run G or it won't work. That's the only way I know to exit G.... ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 45 Fri Jan 21, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 13:07 EST Dan, These accessories are just run as normal DAs, right? (They're located in the ACCPATH as defined in GEM.CNF?) What do you have in the AUTO folder? Something odd is happening, and the fact that TT Artist isn't working at all means it's not just something to do with the time or the clock. Take all the DAs out and put them in one by one, to see which one is causing this oddity. If you have Atari Works, open up a new file (you don't need Speedo loaded) and press control-T to see if the correct time is inserted, with no accessories running. Bill, 003 works OK here in bypass mode. If you can't even bypass G, something odd is happening before Geneva sees the alt keypress. What else is running in the AUTO folder? Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 46 Fri Jan 21, 1994 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 15:27 EST Steve B., Try the "Clear allocated memory" feature in Geneva. It essentially "undoes" what PinHead does for programs, but only for the actual amount of memory the program asks for, instead of clearing everything. Just don't use the "Limit Memory" flag with SL. Bill T., Well, gain one, lose one. I'll try to get a copy of Avalon from S/J when I go back to work on Geneva. You should still be able to hold Alt when Geneva is running in the AUTO folder to prevent it from installing itself. You just have to make sure you hold Alt *after* the floppy drive light first comes on. Dan H., There's no reason I know of why those things would not work. Could you provide us with a complete list of all AUTO folder programs and DA's? For that matter, have you tried it without anything else running? JSW, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. When you reach the last program flag, the Next button is no longer visible, so how can you press it again? Did you, by any chance, modify your GEM.CNF file with a text editor at some point? When you have the corner clock turned off in Install App, it does get turned off when the program runs, but only for a brief instant. NeoDesk regains control immediately and turns it back on. If you want it to stay off, set the program up as single-tasking. Can anyone else give me some more hints about this Spelling Sentry thing? I don't have it. STanley, The state of CapsLock is actually returned to the program as part of the same report it gets when asking for the state of the Alternate, Control, and Shift keys. So, it is actually a pretty common programming mistake not to consider the state of CapsLock when checking for one of the other keys. I'll check the STeno code. Jeff, I don't have any ideas as to the reason for this, except perhaps fast loading. You might want to try create a flag for PGS which has the "Clear allocated memory" flag on. I use PGS fairly often here and have not had any problems. Jim F., I believe you were the person who called here the other day. At the time, Bob asked me for any ideas on why the SETMOUSE/NeoDesk thing was happening, and after many questions back and forth, I still had no idea. Do you by any chance have any new information for us to go on? The most likely reason you are having trouble with double-clicking in UIS is that something si changing the mouse double-click rate. The next time it stops working, you might want to check this in the control panel. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 47 Fri Jan 21, 1994 L.SMITH30 [LOUIS] at 18:23 EST Dan, I received Geneva today, that's 11 days after you posted it. That's not bad at all. I hope it doesn't take me long to master it. Thanks for the prompt service. Louis (from The Rock of Gibraltar) ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 48 Fri Jan 21, 1994 W.TURCZYNSK1 [Bill] at 20:26 EST Dan/Al: Yes, I held the Alt. key too soon, I stumbled upon that myself. I don't know if this helps! Avalon has a opening screen that just gives you something to look at while it's loading. After its loaded, it requires the mouse to be moved to activate more screen action then you get to the actual program screen. Under Release 002, the opening screen never showed with Avalon v2.0, it went directly to the actual program screen. Under Release 003 and Avalon v2.1, the opening screen shows but errors during that period. Is that any help? [Bill] ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 49 Fri Jan 21, 1994 D.SMITH200 [Dave] at 21:15 EST Jeff, Pagestream will swap colors as you described whenever any other program variable messes with the VDI. This happens to me with the Nova card all the time. It's not just Geneva, it's Pagestream. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 50 Sat Jan 22, 1994 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 00:14 EST Tom Jr, In PageStream, the whole screen goes black except for the toolbox and I have to manually change the screen colors from the PageStream configuration. Further testing I found out that when PgS is run in single-tasking mode, the screen colors are grey and are restored when you quit PgS. Only when PgS is run in Multi-Tasking mode the colors are black and NOT restored. Mick, I don't have any problems with the PS colors unless I am running Geneva. Without Geneva the colors are reset correctly upon exiting. See above for further stuff. Steve, >I use Warp 9, but have it running near the end of the loading >sequence, so that doesn't help me during booting. I thought this was >where it should go. Tosfix and Pool fix run first to avoid some sort Warp-9 can be run early in the AUTO folder, I have had mine running right after Geneva & NeoLoad with no problems. >I've reinstalled Pinhead in the beginning of the boot sequence and >everything seems fine (although Calamus seems to lock up a bit more >now). Use the fast-loading in Warp-9 since you have it and make sure that all your programs and accessories have the Fast-Bit turned off. And this is direct from the CodeHeads themselves (and who would know best). Dan, >I'm not entirely sure what you mean. When you reach the last program >flag, the Next button is no longer visible, so how can you press it >again? Did you, by any chance, modify your GEM.CNF file with a text >editor at some point? I do modify the CNF file, but I did not copy the SQUISHII.APP line 10 times, so I have to try and re-create what I did and get back to you. >Can anyone else give me some more hints about this Spelling Sentry >thing? I don't have it. It seems that PgS has to be run with the 'Limit Memory' flag off to load in the Post-Script driver. With the flag set on (@ 2 Meg, and yes I did try to increase it), PgS has no problem loading in smaller printer drivers. The Post Script driver is 19K in length and the other printer drivers are under 2K. And this only happens with SS loaded. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Friday, January 21, 1994 - 11:22:30 pm ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 51 Sat Jan 22, 1994 P.LOUIE1 at 01:26 EST Al, I tried reinstalling Geneva and rerunning the patch programs for Neodesk 3.01- ->3.04 and from Geneva 1.01 002-->003 for the 3rd time, and I'm still getting the same problems. It's driving me bananas! =:-( After each time I patched Neodesk, I made sure that the files between each patched version were not the same size. I did the same with Geneva. I replaced the RSC files in the 3.04 folder with the ones in SFSX.SFX and ran everything on a bare system. I did notice something odd though. After extracting SFSX.TOS, the resulting RSC files were the exact same size as the RSC files in the 3.04 folder. Can anyone verify this? As a last desperate act, I'll probably end up sending Gribnif my disks and let them upgrade both programs for $14. Or maybe I should just wait a month and a half for Neodesk 4? Hmmm. -Phil ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 52 Sat Jan 22, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 01:34 EST Steve, Warp 9 has Pinhead's fast-load routines built in, so use its FL feature instead of Pinhead's. Use the W9 DAT file to control which apps are handled which way by the FL routines of W9. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 53 Sat Jan 22, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 03:01 EST You guys with the Pagestream color problems need to adjust the color palette in the far right menu of Pagestream (I don't have it here to find exact name). I had that problem when I got my Falcon and began running in 16 colors. I adjusted the palette and saved it as the default and all works ok, because if you have a default pal it overrides the desktop colors. (I think)... Hope this helps! Wayne - Saturday, January 22, 1994 - 00:03 a.m. PST ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 54 Sat Jan 22, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:02 EST Phil, Yes, let Dan's operation take care of it. At least then you'll know you have the proper files. I suspect something is happening (perhaps through a boot manager?) that causes changes each time you boot. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 55 Sat Jan 22, 1994 W.HYNES at 04:14 EST Jeff-ST'er, How do you turn off the FAST BIT? Thanks, -Bill- ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 56 Sat Jan 22, 1994 M.POCHE [Mick] at 06:05 EST Wayne - Changing the color palette in PgS and saving as default has never worked for me, either with or without Geneva. Now that I think of it though, I've never checked it on a 'clean' system. - Mick ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 57 Sat Jan 22, 1994 D.HELMICK [Dan] at 07:48 EST Sorry, the clock stoppage seems to be caused by the hardware I'm using, rather than Geneva--it was just in the course of installing Geneva that I noticed it. I'll take this problem elsewhere. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 58 Sat Jan 22, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 12:46 EST Bill Hynes, You have NeoDesk, right? Click once on a file, then press control-S. You'll see a dialog box with options to turn off the fast-load bit, among other things. If you are not using NeoDesk, you can do this from MaxiFile (an essential utility if you don't own it) and from many other utilities. PRGFLAGS is one that is free; it's here in the libraries. But Neo handles it just fine. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 59 Sat Jan 22, 1994 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 22:24 EST Wayne, >I adjusted the palette and saved it as the default and all works ok, >because if you have a default pal it overrides the desktop colors. (I >think)... I do have it set to a dark blue, but with Geneva, it is either black or grey regardless of the color setting saved. Bill, > How do you turn off the FAST BIT? Maxi-File will change any flag that you want, even a whole drive at one time. There are also several PD utilites here in the library that will do it also. And as someone else mentioned, you can do this within NeoDesk with the 'Show Information' option. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Saturday, January 22, 1994 - 9:19:02 pm ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 60 Sun Jan 23, 1994 W.HYNES at 06:14 EST Al & ST'er, Thanks for the reply. I have Neodesk. -Bill- ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 61 Sun Jan 23, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:59 EST Steve, First of all, you should understand that PinHead's function is to "fastload" programs. If someone tells you that a program "doesn't work with PinHead", they're either telling you that the program doesn't handling "fastloading", or else they don't know what they're talking about. We've never had a problem with fastloading Calamus, and we've never heard any reports of problems with it. Maybe we're just uninformed, or maybe the problem only occurs after one hears about it (I'll let you know if I start having problems). :^) Both PinHead and Warp 9 (and I believe Jar and Geneva) use XBRA protocol. This means that you can use Poolfix4 and place it so that it runs _after_ these programs. As we recommend, Warp 9 is of the most benefit when it runs as early as possible in your AUTO folder (and the Warp 9 Control Panel runs as the last resident ACC in MultiDesk). The "Fastload" button should be enabled and all programs should have their fastload bits turned _off_. Any programs which run before Warp 9 should have their fastload bits turn _on_. Those who have TOS 1.0-1.2 can run the MAKEFAST.PRG (found on the W9 master disk) on the programs which run before Warp 9 and on Warp 9 itself. John ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 62 Sun Jan 23, 1994 P.BULLOCK2 [PETER] at 12:46 EST Jeff-st'er, The deal with Pagestream turning the color pallet black is a bug in pagestream, and has nothing to do with Geneva. PGS2 will not remember how the colors were set, so you have to manually set them every time you load it. Peter ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 63 Sun Jan 23, 1994 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 12:52 EST I have used PINHEAD with Calamus with no problems. I now use Warp 9 without PINHEAD and still have no problems with Calamus on my ST, STE or TT computers. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 64 Sun Jan 23, 1994 T.HORNIG [Thomas] at 15:46 EST Al, I have Warp9 3.81 which I think is the latest, and yes I do have to turn off Screen Accel. in order to run Atari Works while in Geneva. Sorry to contradict you. Maybe you have found a different solution I'm not aware of. Please tell me!! Thomas ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 65 Sun Jan 23, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 16:37 EST Thomas, Hmmmm. I run AW (v 1.2, SpeedoGDOS 4.0) from Geneva (003) with Warp9 (v 3.80 - 3.81 is for TTs only) with no problems. I'm using a MegaSTe. Maybe this is a TT "thang?" I did have to turn off the screen acceleration with an earlier version of Warp9 (AW would crash on exit if the Page Setup had been accessed) but not now. I'd look at other auto prgs, or accs for conflicts. Have you tried the old "field strip" routine? (using a boot manager, removing accs and auto prgs down to the minimum and then adding them back in one by one.) Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 2:35 PM Mountain Time Sunday, January 23, 1994 ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 66 Sun Jan 23, 1994 R.GRABLE [Richie] at 17:36 EST If I run Geneva from the auto folder and then AW making a font selection causes the Falcon to lock up. There is no text in the font selection box. If Geneva is run after GEM then all is well. On another subject. There is a new bbs package about to be released that operates in the GEM environment and features up to 3 lines on a MSTE and 4 on a TT. The author is delaying the program by a week or two so as to make it Geneva aware. The carrier detect for the extra lines is via a special plug and a wire to the joystick port. Since I run a bbs on a MSTE this is a VERY interesting sounding product. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 67 Sun Jan 23, 1994 B.KANTOR [Bruce] at 18:03 EST J.EIDSVOOG1 >The "Fastload" button should be enabled and all programs should have >their fastload bits turned _off_. Any programs which run before Warp 9 >should have their fastload bits turn _on_. why should programs running after Warp 9 have their fastload bits turned _off_. Isn't just redundant if you have Warp 9 doing the fastload thing? Regards, Bruce ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 68 Sun Jan 23, 1994 T.HORNIG [Thomas] at 19:43 EST Mike, AW doesn't crash all that really happens is that the screen is transparant (same in steno when started as optional text editor in NeoDesk by turning off the screen accel. I solved the problem. By the way I did check conflicts with DA's and Auto Prg's Thomas ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 69 Sun Jan 23, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 21:45 EST Bruce, Because the redundancy will slow things down. And the whole purpose for W9 is to go ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! :) --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 70 Sun Jan 23, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 22:19 EST Thomas, Is this on a Falcon? On the ST and TT here, Wapr 9 3.81 has no problems like that. But I don't have a Falcon, and can't say what the story is there. Bruce, It's not redundant. It slows things down if TOS and W9 are both messing with the fast-load routines. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 71 Sun Jan 23, 1994 J.RENNER1 [Kheldar] at 22:30 EST I have had the same transparent problem with Aladin. Sometimes it it is, some times it isn't., with the same setup. This is also on TT, warp 9, geneva. Jim. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 72 Sun Jan 23, 1994 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 23:20 EST Peter, >The deal with Pagestream turning the color pallet black is a bug in >pagestream, and has nothing to do with Geneva. PGS2 will not >remember how the colors were set, so you have to manually set them >every time you load it. My PgS remembers the colors and how they were set. There is only a problem when running with Geneva. Bruce, >why should programs running after Warp 9 have their fastload bits >turned _off_. Isn't just redundant if you have Warp 9 doing the >fastload thing? Because (according to what the CodeHeads have said over time) that the Operating System does not handle the fast-bit correctly and can cause problems. Warp-9 does correctly handle the fast-bit setting. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sunday, January 23, 1994 - 8:45:54 pm ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 73 Mon Jan 24, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 01:34 EST Dan, I just figured out how to call XRSRC.C routines ok. I realized that pglobal was really supposed to be defined in my APP as follows: int pglobal[15]; then passed in as in the following example: xrsrc_load("THERSC.RSC",pglobal) Sorry about the off topic "geek talk" guys. :) Anyway, the TOS/TTP problem is Falcon specific. I can launch TOS apps all day on the 1040, but when I boot up G on the Falcon it is a no go. --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 74 Mon Jan 24, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 16:22 EST If the fastload bit is turned on for a program file, the operating system will fastload the program before PinHead or Warp 9 gets a chance to sense what is happening. This does not cause an additional slowdown. It just means that PinHead/Warp 9 will not get a chance to do its own style of fastloading. The operating system's style of fastloading is not wrong, per se. It's just not as safe as PinHead/Warp 9, due to sloppy programming on the part of some programs. Fastloading works by bypassing the clearing (zeroing) of RAM when a program runs. In most cases, it's just a waste of time (possibly several seconds) to clear the entire memory area and it won't cause problems to skip this step. However, some programs assume that all memory is zeroed out and may crash if there is some "dirty" memory hanging around. One case is the operating system itself when the desktop comes up and this is one reason why it's not safe to fastload ACCs using the fastload bit. But PinHead and Warp 9 clear an extra 32K of memory when they fastload programs and ACCs. This extra step takes only a few hundredths of a second, but solves virtually all problems normally caused by fastloading with the "fastload" bit. If you set your fastload bits, PinHead or Warp 9 can't do its thing. You should leave the bits _off_. Thomas, Warp 9 v3.80 and later is fully compatible with Atari Works and SpeedoGDOS. If you are having problems with it, please give us a detailed report in the Warp 9 topic so we can help you solve them. John ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 75 Mon Jan 24, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 20:28 EST Thanks, John. In truth, there IS a slowdown when the FL bit is set and Pinhead or Warp 9 are handling fast-loading, too. It's the slowdown of having to reboot when the dang thing crashes the first time you try to open the initial desk accessory if it was loaded with the FL bit set. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 76 Tue Jan 25, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 17:56 EST Al, I learn something new (gnu?, knew?) every day. John ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 77 Tue Jan 25, 1994 K.HULET [Ken] at 20:26 EST HELP! Just got Geneva, VER 1.02; Release 003; DEC 31, 1993 today and eagerly installed it on my Falcon030. I cannot get it to boot in 16 colors, interlaced, it defaults to ST medium. I used the task manager to change video to 16 colors, 80 col., interlaced & saved settings. Didn't work. Then I tried selecting, (X), Video from NEWDESK/DESKTOP.INF & saved settings. If I abort Geneva loading 16 colors OK. Didn't work. The first time I changed the video & saved settings it seemed OK during that session. From then on when I booted, back to ST medium and if I tried to change video Geneva would show it's "About" box and lock up! I finally remembered reading it didn't like SPDOGDOS other than VER 4.11 so I disabled my 4.00. Still won't boot in 16 color interlaced mode. At least now it does't crash when I change the video. Another odd effect, the system text is smaller.(Might have changed it, I played with some options) System Info: Falcon030, 4 MEG - 85 MEG HD - SC1224 monitor; TOS 4.04 AUTO PRGS (unsorted) ACCs( in order of menu appearance) FPATCH2 CARDFILE4 JAR10 Control Panel 1.31 GENEVA EdHak 3.02 OBURST Printer Drivers SAM Tasks SPEAKOFF Universal III UIS_III Warp9 CP WARP9_FA I'm feeling rather dumb, seems like no one else is having problems. Looking forward to some suggestions. Thanks. ........Ken *S ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 78 Tue Jan 25, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 22:30 EST >I have Warp9 3.81 which I think is the latest, and yes I do have to turn off >Screen Accel. in order to run Atari Works while in Geneva. > I have this exact problem on my Falcon. It also happens with STeno, and on my ST when running Geneva & Aladdin. For now I have a special WARP9.DAT file that I use with Geneva, but hopefully someone will discover the problem. Overall Geneva is very compatible and works wonderfully. I like having STraight FAX! always in the background on my 'spare' ST... Wayne - Monday, January 24, 1994 - 09:56 p.m. PST ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 79 Wed Jan 26, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:22 EST Pshaw, John, I gnu ygnu kgnu that already. (Heck, how do you spell "fish"? GH as in rouGH, O as in wOmen, TI as in acTIon.) Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 80 Wed Jan 26, 1994 THOMPSON2 [STYVWERX] at 09:56 EST I get some strange effects in Aladdin since Release .003(like now) answering messages, where the print on the screen gets munged, and semi- transparent. Phasar 4.0 gets way weird on me, and seems to go away, letting NeoDesk show through. TT, Geneva, Warp 9 3.81, Xboot, in TT medium. Still, it's workable, and I would sooner give up my Monitor, than give up Geneva. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 81 Wed Jan 26, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 19:07 EST Dan, I realize you're working on other things, but I just came across something today that sort of jogged my memory. I was changing to flags for a particular program, and couldn't remember what one did, so I clicked HELP and got some help. (An incredibly useful feature.) Anyway, I soon found that I had to _double_ click a link to move to a different topic. I would much prefer a single-click. I realize that I can also use the mouse to mark sections of the text, which is also useful, but it should be possible to distinguish between a click-drag operation and a single click. Ordinarily I wouldn't mind, except that I do so much double-clicking at work, when using Wi... Win... I just can't bring myself to say it here, sorry. But you get the idea... ~dmj ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 82 Wed Jan 26, 1994 B.SEMAAN [BOSEM] at 19:16 EST Ken Hulet, Try dumping SAM and see if that helps clears things up. SAM is infamous for causing problems of various kinds. Bob ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 83 Thu Jan 27, 1994 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 01:21 EST I appreciate everyones help (on using pinhead). I assume, from what John E. and says that with Warp 9's fast load ability, I don't need pinhead. I'll run W9 very early (like second in the auto folder) and turn off the fastload bits in all of the programs following it (via Maxifile). As to the rumors that follow various programs (especially Auto and DA's), so many things can go wrong that it's very difficult for us mortals to really know what is causing the problems that happen out of nowhere. There are so many different settings available that getting things just right is dificult. And there just are not enough hours in the day to be searching through and absorbing all the different pieces of information that are needed to get things straight. You could spend all of your computing time just trying to get things to work properly. I just don't have that time anymore, I've got to be productive. I just want to use the stuff..... You know what would be nice? To have a CD that had all of the advice here on Genie with a search engine like Hypercard or something. It would be a monumental task but it would be interesting. ST Lou, Where do you put Warp 9 in your auto folder? Can I put W9 first in the auto folder, followed by Deskmanager then Poolfix and Tosfix. Then I can run Jar and Geneva.... Steve ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 84 Thu Jan 27, 1994 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 01:33 EST OK, now that the dust has settled a bit more, please let me know the following: 1. Will Geneva run into ANY problem with WordPerfect on a TT? Does WordPerfect lose any of its features or functions or displays at all? 2. Is Geneva compatible with all CodeHead products? Hotwire, MaxiFile, etc? Any incompatibility or difficulty between running both on my TT setup? Thanks much for the input. - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Wednesday, January 26, 1994 12:48 pm ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 85 Thu Jan 27, 1994 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 01:47 EST Styvwerx, A tip I learned when using Phasar. As soon as you get the menu bar, go up to the 'Desk' menu and shift-click on the 'NeoDesk' to put it to sleep (I'm running Phasar in multitasking mode since it fixes a problem I have with the DWSS - 'Dreaded White Screen Syndrome' in the AlberTT driver. If you are running it under normal rez, you should have Phasar configured as a single tasking application using the task mamager) John ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 86 Thu Jan 27, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:24 EST Ken, If the system text is smaller, you could have changed the text size in the Windows dialog under Options, or you could have a file from an earlier version mixed in. Others have reported problems of one sort or another under the Falcon, and Dan is aware of the general difficulties. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 87 Thu Jan 27, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 06:47 EST Steve, Unfortunately, you do need to run Jar and Geneva before Warp 9. I believe you can follow them by Warp 9 and then Poolfix4 (make sure it's "4"). TOS4FIX and Desk Manager can go anywhere. John ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 88 Thu Jan 27, 1994 R.STUTZMAN2 [RUSS] at 20:00 EST Gribnif, Well I received my copy of Geneva and I am very pleased. The installation process went smoothly without a hitch on my TT. Thanks for a very well done piece of software. I've noticed that some applications that previously gave the TT a few problems now work fine under Geneva, I don't think you can get much more compatible than that. My only shock came while I was reading the manual and saw the reference to the similarity of the GEM.CNF to DOS' autoexec.bat and config.sys files, that was scary. I've spent the last four days trying to get our 486 50 clone to function properly as a GIS system and the last thing I wanted to see at home was any reference to those *%^$%^* files. :') Now if only the clone world went as smoothly as you've made it for the Atari users. Thanks again. Russ ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 89 Thu Jan 27, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 22:07 EST Steve, - You know what would be nice? To have a CD that had all of the - advice here on Genie with a search engine... Not too hard, actually. Just compile all the old message archives (extracted), index the hell out of them, and stick a displayer and search engine on it. If you want hypertext, that's different, but if all you want to do is search and retrieval, that's not too hard. You just need to accumulate those message archives. ~dmj ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 90 Thu Jan 27, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 22:13 EST Russ, At least the GEM.CNF file makes sense when you read it. You can actually figure out what things are for. Half the time DOS .BAT and CONFIG.SYS files are so cryptic you're afraid to touch them at all! 'Papa' ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 91 Thu Jan 27, 1994 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 22:46 EST I've got 3 quick questions here -- I don't have Geneva yet because I was wondering if it would really be useful on a 4-meg STe (everyone seems to always refer to installing it on their TT). Also -- although I understand it'll work fine without NeoDesk (great article, Al -- extremely helpful), are its features somewhat "impaired" by not having NeoDesk? Finally, does Geneva work with the latest release of Word Perfect for the Atari? Any help will be greatly appreciated! -Gerry ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 92 Fri Jan 28, 1994 C.NICHOLLS [BILL] at 00:06 EST Gerry, Beyond question, Geneva works and is useful on a 4 Meg STe. Al has answered the question about Geneva without NeoDesk at length, and there is even a text file of his about in the library. Most people seem to find that the latest version of WordPerfect for the Atari will work under Geneva, except for two cosmetic problems, the busy icon of the mouse remains on until you do something, and the status line does not appear at the bottom of the screen. Additionally, I (running a perhaps atypical Mega STe 4 with TOS 2.05) find that it does not cope with more than one window -- the windows cycle endlessly between each other. I don't know if anyone else has that problem. Bill ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 93 Fri Jan 28, 1994 T.FITZPATRI8 [Tom] at 00:45 EST Gerry, Yes, I believe Geneva is _extremely_ useful on my 4MB STe. Are Geneva's features impaired by NeoDesk's absence? In a word, no. However, (there's always a "however...) I strongly recommend that Geneva users have access to *some* desktop, in order to allow file manipulation and organization best done in a graphical user interface. The Geneva file selector can do such manipulations, but the process is necessarily menu-bound and therefore not nearly as intuitive as in a GUI. And, as GUI desktops go, NeoDesk 3 is among the best. Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 94 Fri Jan 28, 1994 R.COOPER2 [Rob] at 00:56 EST Gerry: >I don't have Geneva yet because I was wondering if it would really be >useful on a 4-meg STe (everyone seems to always refer to installing it >on their TT). I'm using Geneva on a 1-meg Atari 1040STf, and I'm very happy. If I had 4 megs at my disposal, I would be ecstatic! Geneva is very usable on a 1meg machine, but would be best (IMHO) on a 4meg unit. You'll find it very useful, Gerry. Do yourself the favour of purchasing Geneva. You won't be sorry! :^) Rob ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 95 Fri Jan 28, 1994 T.GIRSCH [TJ @ S-Mart] at 01:21 EST Steve - Warp 9 must be AFTER Geneva in your AUTO folder, else it will cause problems of varying annoyance levels. G+Plus must also run AFTER Geneva, if you use it. Gerry - I'm running Geneva on a 4MB Mega-STe and I love it. You can never go back once you use it. However, because of the way TOS runs, Geneva cannot use the standard TOS desktop. Geneva comes with primitive methods for accessing programs, such that a replacement desktop (like NeoDesk) is not mandatory, but I highly recommend having NeoDesk. It makes use MUCH friendlier. Besides, Dan is currently running a NeoDesk/Geneva package deal. E-Mail to GRIBNIF. - T.J. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 96 Fri Jan 28, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 01:31 EST Gerry, I've been testing stuff with Geneva on my 1040STf with 2.5meg. It really is useful to have G. Even with only 2.5meg. Now if there was a way to optionally 'swap out' sleeping or single tasking applications to disk so that memory could be freed up for other apps, even low memory types could find G even MORE killer. --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 97 Fri Jan 28, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:24 EST Styv, Does this happen when Aladdin is single-tasking? I seem to rrecall that I've seen the same effect (TT, 3.06, NVDI ET4000) when I ran Aladdin as a multitasking app. dmj, Yes, I mentioned this to Dan 'way back. You are probably familiar with 1st Guide, the hypertext programmer's help accessory; it uses a single click. I'd like to see the G help use the same simple click. (But then, you might look into DC_RT_DC, which I could not do without. It turns a right click into a left double click, unless the right hutton is held down just a tad longer than usual.) Steve, The basic idea is that you should put W9 as early as possible, but not before a boot manager (unless you'll never want to boot up without W9 except by the hold-down-the-proper-key method). You could set the FL bit in DM to ON, then put W9 right after it. (Set W9's FL bit to ON also, with everything else set to OFF.) Jason, I still use WP often, and this is not only on the TT under Geneva, but on a CDII graphics card on the TT under Geneva ... and it behaves fine. G and the CodeHead products work fine together. You've probably picked up the fact that HotWire does NOT multitask, so if you launch apps from HotWire you revert to single-tasking at all times. That's not a limitation of G or HW, but merely reflects the conditions of the time that HW was programmed. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 98 Fri Jan 28, 1994 THOMPSON2 [STYVWERX] at 10:08 EST John, Thanx for the tip with Phasar. I'll try it today. Steve. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 99 Fri Jan 28, 1994 THOMPSON2 [STYVWERX] at 10:53 EST Al, Yes, the "hide the mouse" happens in Singetasking, and it seems to show up only if I load Aladdin using the GEM.CNF file at boot. The munged display occurs when I load it later, perhaps after using another program for a while, but still in Geneva. I've tried turning off the AES, special boxes, etc. to no avail. If I run the trackball up to the menu portion of the screen, and left click, I can drag the mouse down to where I want it, and click on something with the "invisible" mouse. BTW, you mentioned Word Perfect, I tried to run it in color the other day, on the TT, and got a black screen. Is there some setting I've messed with, using it in Mono for so long, that is doing this, or what? Thanx, Steve. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 100 Fri Jan 28, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 11:01 EST The disappearing mouse also happens to me sometimes when I put Pure C to sleep (CTRL-ALT-z). To get it back, I have to move up to the menu bar, click & pull down the desk menu and bring Pure C out of it's sleep. Note, I run Pure C as a MultiTasking APP. --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 101 Fri Jan 28, 1994 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 13:47 EST Everyone, Memory clearing, what a subject There is still one case where a program that was not properly written can have problems under Geneva. If your system's memory is fragmented (has lots of relatively small blocks of free memory), then when a new program is loaded, and it asks for some memory, it might get a block which is not contiguous to the block its own code lies in. If this block had previously been used by some other program, then its contents won't be zeroed-out, and the program will have problems running. The solution in this case, is Geneva's "Clear allocated memory" option. It automatically clears any block of memory a program asks for before the program gets a chance to use it. This option is only necessary for programs which (incorrectly) assume that any memory they ask for will always be cleared. This is the same reason (as John explained) why a few programs do not get along with fast loading or with PinHead. Most newer programs do not make this assumption. Kevin, Unfortunately, swapping out to disk like that could only really happen with an 030. There's no way to make sure that any program you swap to disk will be loaded back into memory at exactly the same location later on, and for that reason it can't work on a 68000. Bill N., The status line problem in WP can be fixed by having the "Maximize window areas" flag off for WP. This is the way we ship it in GEM.CNF. Gerry, It's quite useful, even on a 2 meg system! See my response to Jason, below, for WordPerfect info. Jason, 1. WordPerfect needs to be run in single-tasking mode because of some bad assumptions on its part. Also, there are some cosmetic problems with the mouse pointer shape if you use Geneva's replacement mouse shapes. 2. Geneva works perfectly with MaxiFile. HotWire is currently undergoing an update (is it ready yet, John?) so that it can launch programs in multi- tasking mode. Right now, you can only run them in single-tasking mode when Geneva is running. Russ, Fortunately, INSTALL.PRG automatically creates the GEM.CNF file for you, so hopefully you'll never have to change it again . Ken, When you say that it doesn't work (even with Speedo 4.00 turned off, which you should definitely do, either that or don't change the font), what do you mean? It should definitely come up in whatever video mode you have saved from the Task Manager *if* you have the "Video from NEWDESK/DESKTOP.INF" option off. Otherwise, Geneva will read the setting from that file and ignore the one you saved in the Task Manager. dmj, You got something against double-clicking? I'll consider it. P. Louie, We got your disks in the mail today. We'll be upgrading them and changing things over to the newest versions. I'm sure it won't be a month, though. Yes, the SFX RSC files are the same size. Bill, Maybe...I'll have to see when I get the program. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 102 Fri Jan 28, 1994 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 19:12 EST Bill Nicholls, Tom Fitzpatrick, Rob Cooper, T. Girsch, Kevin/PG, Al Fasoldt, and Dan -- Yikes! I've never heard so many people scream so loudly so quickly in favor of a product. So I hope you guys are getting some sort of a sales commission on this... I ordered both Geneva and NeoDesk today. (And for all you who badgered me on another topic, I *ALSO* ordered CardFile.) Looking forward to being part of the Gribnif family... (Figure, in a week, after all this stuff gets here, get set for A LOT of questions...) -Gerry P.S. Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't also give credit to in your full-page ad in ST Informer, which I just received today. As if I wasn't toppling already, that pushed me over the edge. [Besides, I'm a Creative Director at an ad agency. Which means that I actually believe that advertising FORCES people to buy stuff... ;-) ] ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 103 Fri Jan 28, 1994 K.KOZORIZ [Harcourt] at 20:05 EST I have just become a new Geneva owner and seem to be having a couple of problems (no surprise there :) ). I cannot seem to get Publisher ST 2 to run. It runs into a problem with the width table. Anyone been able to get this to run? I'm currently running in medium rez with 2.5 meg of memeory. Thanx in advance. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 104 Fri Jan 28, 1994 M.MOTOGAWA [MEL] at 22:05 EST Has anyone had difficulty running the new shell for Lharc 2.99, u/l'd tonight, with Geneva? (File #31767) I get a '...doesn't run in this resolution' error msg when trying to run it under Geneva release 003, but rebooting without Geneva allows it to run just fine. No amount of TM flag fiddling will make it work with Geneva resident, though. - Mel ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 105 Fri Jan 28, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:31 EST Russ, I wrote the references to the DOS files, in hopes that the positive aspects of the autoexec.bat and config.sys would be emphasized. There is something to be said for a system that lets you edit the bootup parameters. Gerry, Thanks for the kudos, but I sense that my description of how Geneva does not need NeoDesk didn't explain things well enough. The features of Geneva are not impaired in any way by the absence or presence of one desktop or another. Geneva does not need NeoDesk for any of its functions, in any way, period, end of sentence. :) It's not the functions of Geneva that are impaired if you don't have a desktop or a shell, but the functions of the desktop or shell. (I'm getting too obvious here -- sorry!) Without a desktop or shell, there are some actions that are more difficult or that require add-ons. Offhand, these include: setting fast-load and other bits, viewing texts and launching applications by clicking on their data files. In other respects, Geneva by itself handles all the operations. WordPerfect runs fine here. Many Geneva users are running it on an MSTe, including Dan Wilga himself. It takes up less than 5 percent of the RAM in a Mega STe. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 106 Sat Jan 29, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 00:36 EST Steve, I haven't tried WP in color lately, so I'll run it in 16 and 256 color modes (I have a card) to see what happens. Will let you know. Gerry, Glad to have you on board. Ad agency, eh? Us journalism types let you guys in the group now and then ... :) Mel, Haven't tried the Lharc shell. (Wottsamatta with ARC Shell?) Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 107 Sat Jan 29, 1994 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 01:47 EST >A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 00:36 EST >Glad to have you on board. Ad agency, eh? Us journalism types let you guys in >the group now and then ... :) Hmmm... reminds me of my years in Journalism School. All the "news" guys insisted that us "advertising" guys had no right being in a JOURNALISM school... -Gerry ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 108 Sat Jan 29, 1994 R.COOPER2 [Rob] at 03:20 EST Gerry: >(And for all you who badgered me on another topic, I *ALSO* ordered >CardFile.) Gee, had I known you were considering Cardfile, I would've joined in THAT chorus too! >Looking forward to being part of the Gribnif family... You'll love it... such a warm, happy feeling! (although getting into the bathroom is tough, what with so many people in line... Rob ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 109 Sat Jan 29, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 10:36 EST Dan, Would the Profiler help to track and insure that all variables used in a program get initialized? (That would help track down spots where things aren't explicitly initialized and cause problems using fastloading routines?) I'm considering the Profiler so I can run it on the old Band In a Box 5.x code to help me track down where it's major problem areas are located. --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 110 Sat Jan 29, 1994 M.ERSOFF at 10:50 EST Any GENEVA users who know the answer to the following questions, I saw this post here on GEnie and I was wondering if EXTEND DOS works with GENEVA. >Anodyne Software announces: > > ExtenDOS: CD Extensions for TOS > ------------------------------- > >Would you like to join the CD-ROM revolution but: > . couldn't get Atari's MetaDOS(tm) package to work properly > . don't want the complication and overhead of running MultiTOS(tm) > just to get CD-ROM support ? Here is my situation/question: I currently have an Atari Mega ST4 with 1-Syquest drive and 1-50 meg hard drive. I also have an ICD link that I use with a second Syquest drive that I have at work (yes, I actually have an ST at work). I also use the multi-tasking program from Gribnif Software called Geneva (I wouldn't boot-up withoout it!). I recently spoke with an man named Howard at ICD concerning the ability to use the ICD Link with a SCSI CD-ROM drive. Howard (a _VERY_ helpful person) said that ICD has a CD-ROM driver (included on the disk that comes with the ICD Link) but it needs Mint to run. My problem is that, to my knowlegde, Geneva will not work with Mint. So here is the $64,000 question: Does the ExtedDOS CD-ROM driver need Mint (or another additional programs)? _AND_ does the ExtendDOS CD-ROM driver work with _GENEVA_? If anyone has a similar set-up to mine please feel free to comment. To sum it up, all I want is to seemlessly interface a CD-ROM drive to my Atari ST to use CD-ROMs in the same way I use my hard drives - And I want it to work with _GENEVA_ and without MINT. (I don't know if this is asking too much - but hey, if I don't ask I'll never know ) Thanks ....... Mayer ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 112 Sat Jan 29, 1994 K.HULET [Ken] at 16:57 EST Dan, So far I still can't get Geneva to boot in 16 colors, interlaced on my Falcon. I took my AUTO Folder down to: FPATCH, JAR10, & GENEVA. ACCs have been to reduced to TASKMAN & XCONTROL. Geneva always comes up in ST Medium. I've tried both options of Video from NEWDESK/DESKTOP.INF and yes, I have resaved my settings after switching to 16 color mode. Nothing works. Looking for some help. Thanks to Bob who suggested removing SAM but it wasn't the problem either. Can't see how it can be a conflict, I don't have much else to remove. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 114 Sat Jan 29, 1994 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 18:21 EST Al and Dan, thanks for your reply about WordPerfect and Geneva. But I need to ask you about this discrepancy, since I'm also reading (from Bill Nicholls) that I would lose the status line at the bottom of the screen if I use WordPerfect with Geneva and also that there's the possiblity that I couldn't open more than one window (while in WordPerfect) at a time without there being some kind of rolling from one window to another -- when I say "windows," I mean using the WordPerfect feature where I open up more than one window in order to0 open and work with more than one file at a time). Would you please confirm if you have these symptoms on your machine with Geneva or not?....much thanks....Jason ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 115 Sat Jan 29, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 22:01 EST Mayer, There's no reason ExtenDOS should not work with Geneva. I'm buying ExtenDOS and will know for sure before long, but nothing in Geneva precludes ExtenDOS from working. Howard IS indeed a real nice guy. Those of us who have known Howard and Tom of ICD can tell you how vital these folks have been to the Atari community, all the way back to the early days of the 8-bit Atari. I would have had a hard time writing hundreds of columns on my 8-bit Atari were it not for ICD's outstanding software and hardware in those days. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 116 Sat Jan 29, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 22:02 EST Mayer, I did not see anything in the ExtenDOS press release that indicated it needed MiNT. As a matter of fact, I'm fairly certain it doesn't. As for it working with Geneva, well, you might also try asking the author of ExtenDOS... Roger Burrows. I believe his address online is "R.BURROWS1". ~dmj ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 117 Sat Jan 29, 1994 C.NICHOLLS [BILL] at 23:24 EST Jason, Note Dan's reply to me in his message #101. Evidently the status line can now be accessed with the right flags. As for the cycling windows, nothing I do will stop it, but no-one else has the problem, so far as I know. I would very much like to know if anyone else using TOS 2.05 has the problem. Otherwise, the odds are you would not experience it. It is not a reason for not using Geneva. If I need the multiple windows open, and I often do, I can always return to TOS for that bit of work. Bill ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 118 Sun Jan 30, 1994 R.BUSH [Richard Bush] at 01:04 EST Jason, The beta version of Geneva caused Word Perfect to lose the status bar. The later versions fixed the problem. I used to have the window rolling problem on my Falcon, but with Geneva I no longer have that problem. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 119 Sun Jan 30, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EST Gerry, PAY? You mean you guys get PAID for that? I MUST be in the wrong side of the business! Jason, I switched from Aladdin and ran WPerfect, opened up two windows, went back and forth, closed one, opened another, and so on. Worked fine. This was on the TT. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 120 Sun Jan 30, 1994 M.ERSOFF at 14:51 EST Al and DMJ, Thanks for the info about Extend DOS. I think I'll buy it _AFTER_ Al gets his and lets me know how it works .... Keep me posted, Al. Take care . Mayer ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 121 Sun Jan 30, 1994 T.GIRSCH [TJ @ S-Mart] at 18:26 EST Mayer - >... to my knowledge, Geneva will not work with Mint. To my knowledge, I can't even _get_ Mint to confirm or refute that statement... Bill - I have TOS 2.05, and I don't have a "cycling windows" problem, but I missed your original explanation of the circumstances. Can you re-state the problem? - T.J. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 122 Mon Jan 31, 1994 V.MAYEVSKI [Ukrainian] at 01:15 EST I have this problem: I am using Neodesk with Geneva on 1040STf with one meg of memory (which is far not enough). I am waiting for memory upgrade right now so I try not to multitask. But if I do just a regular disk maintenance (like file copies, deletes, moves) I run out of memory in 3 to 5 minites. What could cause this problem and does anybody else expirience the same problem. BTW my TOS ver is 1.0. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 123 Mon Jan 31, 1994 C.NICHOLLS [BILL] at 02:41 EST T.J., If I run WordPerfect under Geneva and try to open a second window, the machine cycles endlessly between the two windows, and the window scroll bar jerks up and down. I can sometimes stop it by doing something in the menu bar with the mouse, but this does not give me access to the other window. Usually the only remedy is to reboot. The whole thing happens at fairly high speed. I have not had the problem under TOS 1.0, TOS 1.04 or TOS 2.05, with an otherwise similar configuration. I am running at 16MHz with cache on. The one thing I haven't tried is running at a lower clock speed. No one else but me seems to have the problem with Geneva and WordPerfect. No one has been able to suggest what might be wrong so far. It happens whether or not I am in multitasking mode with WP. Bill ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 124 Mon Jan 31, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:25 EST Mayer, Secrets of ExtenDOS? Gads, this list is getting too long. How 'bout "Secrets of Saying No to Requests for One More 'Secrets of ...' Article"? :) Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 125 Mon Jan 31, 1994 R.THUROW [Rich] at 04:30 EST Dan: Yep, me again, on the subject of MIDI programs. Add Dr.T's Omega to the list of programs that do not work 100% under G. Like Notator Logic, the menu bar "moves" about 1/16th of an inch when accessed. Then the problems start. The menu bar switches to Neodesk with a double click, icons burst through and the program stops seeing mouse clicks, even after manually being switched back. I havent fully troubleshot it, but have seen enough bombs after days of trying to get Notator and Logic to work right to sense we have another major midi incompatibility. I think it might be fair to potential users to know if you plan on bringing midi programs into the fold or not. I realize there may be insurmountable difficulties involved, and that midi compatibility may never happen. If so, I think the user base needs to know. Dont get me wrong, for DTP geneva is shining on my setup. Just finished a glitch free 2 hours of shuttling back and forth between PGS and Touchup, with lots of scans and graphic importing. It would have probably taken 3 hours without Geneva. But with Midi, my mainstay, I've run into lots of problems which singletasking does not cure. These programs most likely have their own AES, but could possibly benefit if Geneva put a true "brick wall" between itself and midi apps. Some apps, like Xor, are very close to full functioning. Hence its frustrating to be able to work for 10 minutes before bomb city forces a restart. Rich ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 126 Mon Jan 31, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 07:38 EST Al, Why don't you collect up all of your "Secrets of ..." articles format them into a "Secrets of Atari software" book and put your mug shot on it? Heck, I'd probably buy it just for the reading pleasure aspect. --Kevin PS. I run into several non-GEnie Atari folx and they could use a heck of a lot of "Secrets of ..." type articles. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 127 Mon Jan 31, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:56 EST Ukrainian, Sounds like the "memory" you are running out of is the folder pool. Are you using the folder fix (any one of them)? TOS 1.00 needs this fix. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 128 Mon Jan 31, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 11:23 EST Ukranian, I heartily recommend that you upgrade your TOS to version 1.04 (rainbow) or above. Many dealers can supply the 1.04 ROMs for about $60 or sometimes they are offered in the For Sale topic here on GEnie. If you really want to get fancy, you can get the TEC upgrade board from CodeHead Technologies which includes TOS 2.06. This has the newer Atari NewDesk desktop, but you wouldn't need that with NeoDesk. Sounds like you may need the folder fix with 1.0, FOLDRXXX.PRG (or is it FOLDRnnn.PRG?) It's here in the GEnie libs somewhere. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 9:04 AM Mountain Time Monday, January 31, 1994 ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 129 Mon Jan 31, 1994 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 22:16 EST Kevin, >Al, > Why don't you collect up all of your "Secrets of ..." articles format them >into a "Secrets of Atari software" book and put your mug shot on it? Heck, >I'd probably buy it just for the reading pleasure aspect. Oh, I should add that it is the SAMCFG.ACC that seems to have trouble. I was using SAM to record a wavesample while the Jazz Pianist (PG Software) was kicking out some midi parts to be recorded by SAM. :) I know I can do it under regular TOS, but I want my G! --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 138 Tue Feb 01, 1994 W.NESS2 [Dave Ness] at 20:32 EST I just wondered if Geneva emulates the calls that TOS MULTITOS has ?? ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 139 Tue Feb 01, 1994 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 23:12 EST Ok... I'm still waiting for my Geneva/NeoDesk/CardFile package. But I've got a question even BEFORE I get it (that's how excited I am...) If Geneva should arrive in the mail before NeoDesk, should I wait for NeoDesk to install Geneva, or should I just go ahead and do it? Or should I just calm down a little...? -Gerry ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 140 Wed Feb 02, 1994 T.GIRSCH [TJ @ S-Mart] at 00:42 EST PG-Kevin - I once mentioned a problem to Dan with SAM & Geneva, back in a very early Beta- version. Dan told me he didn't have access to SAM and therefore could not accurately identify the problem. I'd suggest renaming SAMCFG.ACC to SAMCFG.PRG, setting its flag to "Single-Tasking," and running it as a program. If the problem persists, we'll hafta try and get Dan & Scott to touch base. Since I don't have SAM, I can't try these suggestions myself. Al - So, if the ladies swoon, you would get more sales. Women around the world who think an Atari is a VCS game machine and have never heard of TOS will be buying the book, just for your picture... (NOT!) 8^) Gerry - You might want to wait for NeoDesk to install Geneva, because Geneva's access to programs, etc., is pretty limited without NeoDesk's assistance. But you certainly don't HAVE to wait. Other desktop replacements (like KAOS or TERADESK) may work well under Geneva, and those are available here on GEnie as tide-me-overs. - T.J. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 141 Wed Feb 02, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 02:17 EST Al, So where's my book? :) --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 142 Wed Feb 02, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 13:52 EST Dave, Not sure what you are asking. Does Geneva make use of the new AES calls? Yes. Gerry, Download Secrets of Geneva. That will answer your question, and a lot more, too! T.J., Huh? Geneva's access to programs isn't limited at all if you are not running NeoDesk. This is not true at all. There is no program that Geneva cannot run by its own file-launching methods, and they actually can be run faster without Neo. (Not that I am saying you should not run NeoDesk, of course.) I run Geneva a lot in a bare system when I am doing stuff that requires a LOT of memory, and there is no limitation in running programs or DAs. Kevin, Where's my $6,020? ($20 for the book, $6,000 for the advance....) Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 143 Wed Feb 02, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 14:18 EST Al, So, if I advance you the $6,020, does that mean I get a sizeable take of the profits when the ladies buy your book in droves? If so, maybe we can arrange something. Of course, since I'd be involved, I'd have to put my ... make that MY mugshot on there to make _sure_ the ladies buy it. Heheh... the big brown eyes gets 'em every time. A "Greatest Literary Hits of Al" book. :) Or "Al's Secret" sort of sounds like an undergarment retail est. to me. I'll have to try SAMCFG.ACC as a singletasking program. That's something I haven't tried yet. --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 145 Wed Feb 02, 1994 K.HULET [Ken] at 20:52 EST I guess there isn't anyone else with a Falcon having trouble booting G in 16 color interlaced video mode. I'm curious to learn how your system, AUTO folder, etc. differ. Any comments? Thanks...........Ken ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 146 Wed Feb 02, 1994 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 21:38 EST >A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 13:52 EST >Download Secrets of Geneva. That will answer your question, and a lot more, >too! Al -- Did. I'm holding the hard copy in my hand this very minute. It's really well done. VERY nice job. Almost makes me want to go into "legit" journalism... (Naaaaaahhhhhhh!) I also downloaded all 7 (!) of the .ARCs of previous discussions here. I was surprised that so few people ever mentioned MIDI sequencing programs in relation to Geneva (I only saw Cubase and Notator Logic mentioned by name). I'm heavily into MIDI. Does anyone else out there in Geneva-land use a sequencer with Geneva? Does it work ok? (BTW, did I mis-hear when I ordered that G was being sent by 2-day mail? I ordered on Friday and fully expected it today, Wednesday. My frown was so huge when I discovered it hadn't arrived, I scraped my lips on the pavement...) -Gerry ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 147 Wed Feb 02, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 23:19 EST Al, Of course... IF you _don't_ produce the book in a timely manner (with MY mugshot somewhere)... I get your dog, your car(s), your house(s), and your bank acct/stocks minus any of your bills. You get to keep: The bills, the bridge(s), the wife, the kids, any other personal items. Oh yeah, I get your CD2 card and your TT. Geeze, do I have to make it THAT tough to back outta the contract. Hey buddy... I'm a landlord. Ya learn NO EXCEPTIONS quickly. :) Gerry, Band In A Box 6.0 (not released yet) works fine with Geneva. Matter of fact... I'm using Geneva as I write BiaB6. The same is also true of the other PG Music Atari products which are released. One of my fav things to do is to take the Jazz Pianist, play one of the songs on my synths/samplers via MIDI, run D2D and record the output of the Synth into the Falcon onto the hard disk, while running Atari Works in the background. All under Geneva. --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 148 Thu Feb 03, 1994 T.GIRSCH [TJ @ S-Mart] at 01:22 EST *SN Al - > Huh? Geneva's access to programs isn't limited at all if you are not > running NeoDesk. This is not true at all. There is no program that > Geneva canoot run by its own file-launching methods, and they can > actually be run faster without Neo. Okay, perhaps "limited" was not my best choice of words. I didn't mean limited from a functionality standpoint, but rather from an interface standpoint. Perhaps "crude" or "rudimentary" would have been a better choice of words. For those of you who do not yet have Geneva, here's the deal: if you wish to lauch applications from the Geneva Manager (that is, you aren't using an alternate desktop [such as NeoDesk, which is IMHO the best one, although certainly not the only one]), you do so by selecting "Open..." from the Geneva Manager pulldown "File" menu, and then using the subsequent file selector to find and select the application or program you wish to run. No drive icons, no directory windows, just "Open..." and a file selector. Certainly you can run any program this way, but having a "real" desktop environment is a heckuva lot more convenient. That was all I was trying to say, and the above [laborious] description explains why I _strongly_ recommend an alternate desktop. Also, the alternate desktop you use MUST be Multi-Tasking aware. NeoDesk 3.04 (and higher) is the only one that I personally can say with certainty is Multi-tasking aware. Others (such as TeraDesk or KAOS) may or may not be. I'd suspect that if they claim MultiTOS capability, then they should also work with Geneva. - T.J. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 149 Thu Feb 03, 1994 E.ROSEN [Ed Rosen] at 01:26 EST Gerry, Don't wait! Whatever arrives first, check it out. You've got three dense manuals to digest and a gazillion new features to look after. Learning one independently might help you to remember which feature go with what program. Have a blast! Ed ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 150 Thu Feb 03, 1994 THOMPSON2 [STYVWERX] at 10:06 EST Al, If you REALLY want this new "Secrets" book to sell, put your picture on the INSIDE cover, (no matter how dashing or handsome) and re-title it "Victoria's Secrets", and then STAND BACK!! ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 151 Thu Feb 03, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 19:12 EST Dave Ness, From my own experience, Geneva does NOT emulate the multitasking GEMDOS calls. Those require MiNT. It does, however, provide AES-level multitasking; if you need to launch multiple applications, use the AES to do so. If you have more programming questions, why not stop by the Geneva programming topic (CAT 17, TOP 23)? ~dmj ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 152 Thu Feb 03, 1994 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 20:38 EST >PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 23:19 EST > Band In A Box 6.0 (not released yet) works fine with Geneva. Matter of >fact... I'm using Geneva as I write BiaB6. The same is also true of the other >PG Music Atari products which are released. COOL! My wife just bought me The Jazz Pianist, and I'm looking forward to running that in the background while I do other things. But again... what about sequencers per se? -Gerry ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 153 Thu Feb 03, 1994 W.TURCZYNSK1 [Bill] at 21:27 EST Gerry: Sounds like an Ensoniq type of guy. Well, CuBase didn't work at all with Geneva till Release 003 and someone here said that it does multitask just fine! For me, I tried multitasking and when I try to run another program, I get a "not enough memory" alert. That wouldn't be so bad but after that, the sequencer playback does this stop and go thing! I had it happen a few times but I'm sure now if it was caused the same way. Avalon from S/J which did work with Release 002 doesn't with 003. I think in general, MIDI programs are going to be a bitch. What sequencer are you using? X-oR seems to work although I haven't given it any rough tests. [Bill] P.S. Get that v2.00 O.S. yet? I don't think anyone did yet! ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 154 Thu Feb 03, 1994 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 22:03 EST >W.TURCZYNSK1 [Bill] at 21:27 EST > Sounds like an Ensoniq type of guy. You better believe it! >in general, MIDI programs are going to be a bitch. What sequencer are you >using? X-oR seems to work although I haven't given it any rough tests. I'm still limping along with Master Tracks Pro -- I actually love that program and have yet to see anything I like as well or better. Feels like it was written for exactly the way I write music. ... And STILL nothing in the snail mail today... :( -Gerry ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 155 Thu Feb 03, 1994 T.GIRSCH [TJ @ S-Mart] at 23:30 EST Bill - Re: CuBase, have you tried limiting its memory consumption in the task manager? You can do that, you know... Dan - I saw your Geneva ad in the latest ST Informer. A couple of things I wanted to point out: 1) Stop with the Mac font already! This is an ST, not a Mac. 2) I laughed out loud (genuine mirth) when I saw the vertical bars that compare Geneva to MultiTOS in speed and compatibility. Geneva's bars are about two inches tall. MultiTOS's bars are nonexistent! I'd agree, yup, Geneva IS that much better than MultiTOS! 8^) - T.J. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 156 Thu Feb 03, 1994 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 23:54 EST Cubase Audio Falcon does not work under Geneva 003. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 157 Fri Feb 04, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 00:34 EST Gerry, For some reason most of the GREAT sequencers from Germany do some wierd things with the TOS/AES. That causes some problems. I've been going to great pains to try and insure that the PG products work with G and/or MultiTOS. Heck, I've found G even more forgiving of program errors (thanks for the GenevaDB Dan!) than regular TOS. :) This is all the more reason for us to hope for Mark of the Unicorn to hurry up and finish "Free Midi" for the Mac. I'll be getting a copy of the sources and will try to port it over to the Atari. Of course, from there... it depends on whether any new Midi software developed for the Atari will take advantage of the "Free Midi" stuff. --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 158 Fri Feb 04, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 01:21 EST TJ, I like my Chicago font (aka Mac font) under G. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 159 Fri Feb 04, 1994 R.COOPER2 [Rob] at 04:11 EST T.J.: > 1) Stop with the Mac font already! This is an ST, not a Mac. Personally, I find the Mac font MUCH more pleasing to the eye on my Atari. I'm using Warp 9's font replacement ability to use a Mac font ALL the time. I find the standard Atari font to be blocky, crude and altogether unpleasant to work with. (this, of course, is just my OPINION.. ). Just because I like the Mac font doesn't mean I like the Mac... ;^) Rob ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 160 Fri Feb 04, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 08:05 EST Rob, I also found the W9 font called EUROSTIL to be most easy on the eyes. Nice, smooth edges, BOLD look which is esy easy to read from a distance, etc... --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 161 Fri Feb 04, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:15 EST Styv, OK, OK, this has gone far enough. Tom Brokaw called last night and wants to do an interview. Geraldo is waiting for a call-back. And what's this thing about the Queen? I wonder if that was a legit call? :) T.J., That's no Mac font! Excuuuuuuuse me! That's NVDI's Monaco font. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 162 Fri Feb 04, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 18:36 EST Gerry, MIDI Spy works with Geneva. John ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 163 Fri Feb 04, 1994 W.TURCZYNSK1 [Bill] at 21:06 EST T.J.: I had just gotten new updates at the time and had limited memory to the point that it wouldn't run at all but I may have overshot it! My main usage is MIDI, so if one program doesn't run under Geneva, I just don't use Geneva! I like the program very much but I like to use my MIDI programs first. Avalon v2.1 doesn't run under Release 003, so at this point, I don't use Geneva. I've disabled Geneva at boot up by holding down ALT but then I get a Alert Box saying that it can't find NeoDesk RSC file. This may be my fault or fixable but MIDI programs by themselves are enough hassle for me. If I get bored or annoyed enough I may dive into Geneva again to at least get where I can disable it when I boot. [Bill] ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 164 Fri Feb 04, 1994 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 21:08 EST I have just received my Geneva and Neodesk 3 package and installed both. My big concern was whether Geneva would work ok on my TT with TOS 3.06 -- and, alas, I am having two problems that have been described on this thread: 1. I have no status line at the bottom of the window while in WordPerfect -- and the only reason I ordered it was because of the assurance on this message base that I won't lose the status line in WordPerfect with the latest version of both Geneva and WordPerfect. 2. I have the same problem as someone else regarding opening up more than one window at a time -- as soon as I do that, there is a rapid alternation between windows 1 and 2 -- it's neverending and I have to reboot to get out of it. I use the multi-window feature in WordPerfect quite a lot and this was my other major concern prior to getting Geneva. So then: is there some fix for both of these difficulties? Please advise. Much thanks. - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Friday, February 4, 1994 4:57 pm ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 165 Fri Feb 04, 1994 R.THUROW [Rich] at 21:43 EST PG Kevin: What is free Midi (can it be freed from its sinkhole..(g). Must be the water over there in Deutchland. Maybe we can bring the Germans to Geneva (oops). ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 166 Fri Feb 04, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 21:59 EST Gerry, MidiSpy and the PG software (not BiaB 5.x since I didn't have anything to do with pre-6.0 versions) work fine together too! :) Say you have MidiSpy running and playing a song. Then you start up the Jazz Pianist. MidiSpy stops playing (even tho it is still plugging thru the song) and the Jazz Guitarist does its thing. When you quit the Jazz Guitarist, MidiSpy picks back up from whatever point in the song(s) it has reached. Pretty cool since we don't have a good multitasking Midi arrangement for TOS. :) At least they don't clash & crash like most other seq prgs do when run at the same time. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 167 Fri Feb 04, 1994 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 22:54 EST ROTFW. (It's a new acronym for "rolling on the floor whining." No Geneva in today's mail.) PG-Kevin -- Sounds pretty cool to me. I'm really looking forward to putting Jazz Pianist in its "PLAY ALL" mode and just letting 'er rip. -Gerry ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 168 Fri Feb 04, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 23:58 EST Rich, Free Midi is the name of Mark of the Unicorn's answer to Midi Manager and OMS on the Mac. Free Midi has its name because it will be released as PD _WITH_ sources. MOTU will be sending me a source disk, when available. Then... I'll look into porting it. Shouldn't be TOO hard tho'. --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 169 Sat Feb 05, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:49 EST Jason, TOS 3.06, Geneva 003, NVDI and so on here, and no symptoms like that with WPerfect. It does behave that way on the ST, though. (I use WPerfect so little that I just don't care much how it behaves. Calligrapher is a much better word processor.) Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 170 Sat Feb 05, 1994 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 12:28 EST >PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 23:58 EST > > Free Midi is the name of Mark of the Unicorn's answer to Midi Manager > and OMS on the Mac. Free Midi has its name because it will be released Not wanting to stray too far from the topic here... BUT... What do MIDI Manager and OMS do? -Gerry ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 171 Sat Feb 05, 1994 THOMPSON2 [STYVWERX] at 13:53 EST Does anyone else using Release .003 get a dialog box when exiting a program, like LDW, that says "Undefined error on exiting LDW"? It doesn't seem to hurt the operation of any subsequent programs, and, with 20mb in the TT, the only reason I exit much of anything with Geneva is force of habit, or when using DynaCadd. I've refined the way I use DynaCadd in Geneva, now. I put EVERYTHING else to sleep, manually, and enter Hotwire, then DCadd through HOTWIRE. Nothing else seems to work, and, it seems, the singletasking flags, and the limit memory flags don't take charge in DCadd, as they do in other programs. I know, DCadd is not a program that everyone uses, but it's about as essential to me as spreadsheets and wordprocessors are. Sure wish they'd upgrade the Atari version. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 172 Sat Feb 05, 1994 R.KRAUSE6 [RJK] at 15:51 EST Folks, I arrived home last night to find a box containing Geneva. I started installing it at 10:30 A.M. this morning and by noon I was running well. Another great program in the Gribnif tradition! Thank you. Now a question. I find that if I have TASKMAN as an accessory, I always bomb out with two bombs during boot-up. This even happend with the bare minimum of programs/accs required to run. If I rename it to a program, it works perfectly. Has anybody else seen this? Thanks for the continuing tradition of great products! RJK ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 173 Sat Feb 05, 1994 JRH [Roger] at 16:40 EST Jason, I am running Geneva with NeoDesk on a TT with TOS 3.06, and I am able to run Word Perfect without the difficulties you mention. In fact it is at this moment loaded, but asleep. I run it as a single tasking application, which was the default setup in Rel 003 of Geneva. So, a couple of questions - have you upgraded to 003, and are you single- tasking WP? Losing the status line was a Rel 002 problem which has been taken care of. The cycling between windows I have seen, but not for some time now - I do not recall the specifics of the situation at that time. The only annoyance I now encounter is the busy hourglass symbol when I load WP initially. Doesn't affect anything, but it is not tidy. And it goes away once I have retrieved a file. I can send you the Word Perfect entry from my GENEVA.CNF file, if that will help. Roger ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 174 Sat Feb 05, 1994 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 17:08 EST I believe I've discovered the source of my two problems with Geneva so far: the loss of the status line in WordPerfect and the rapid switching back and forth between Wordperfect windows. I realized that I had to keep GENEVA.CNF and GEM.CNF in either the root directory of C or else in a folder named GENEVA on the root directory of C. I had installed Geneva putting the GENEVA folder on E and, once I put it on C, the two symptoms have disappeared. My latest glitch is trying to exit from either Diamond Back or from Diamond Edge once I've run them from Neodesk 3.4. Both DB and DE yield two bombs upon exiting when I've run them from Neodesk. This does not occur when I run DE and DB from the Geneva program launcher. Any idea of what's going on here?....Jason ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 175 Sat Feb 05, 1994 C.NICHOLLS [BILL] at 22:48 EST Jason and Roger, Up to now I thought I had been the only person with the window cycling problem. I'm sorry to find I'm not, though if more than one person has it there is more chance of a fix. Roger, if you believe you've fixed it by flag setting I too would be most grateful to have your list. Jason, I already have the Geneva folder and GEM.CNF in drive C. Bill ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 176 Sun Feb 06, 1994 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 00:51 EST I notice that the colors that I have set in Wordperfect get all out of whack when I use Geneva to go from one application to another and then back into Wordperfect. I'm used to having the cursor arrow and, most importantly, the typeface in black. It starts out that way when I first use Geneva to go into WP but when I access, for example, Aladdin, and then go back into WP, the typeface is red. This is on my TT with Atari color monitor, operating in TT med rez. Is there any way to avoid this from occurring -- or from having to reset the colors using the control panel each time I go back into WP? Also, while I'm on the subject of control panels, I've got both the Atari Extensible Control Panel (1.3) as an acc as well as Neodesk's control panel as an acc (since I'm using NeoDesk as my shell). Is this redundant or is it ok to have both in place? I'm also noticing that when I have a number of applications running with Geneva and I run Diamond Back and then EXIT Diamond Back, the whole screen loses any menu bar whatsoever -- the screen is just one color and there's no cursor, no menu bar, no nothing. I have to reboot to regain control of the computer. Anybody else experience this? Is there something I'm missing? Thanks for the help! I'm immersed in Geneva-land at the moment...Jason ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 177 Sun Feb 06, 1994 L.CHANDLER [LINDA] at 01:59 EST Al, Since I don't own Geneve as yet, I don't check this topic often. I noticed message #69 in the Lamp..."Turn off the Cache", and thought that this problem of munged files that happens when one uses a boot manager may be the problem I'm having with my inf. files disappearing on my TT desktop when I exit an application. Could you please explain a little further. Preferably in the TT topic, although I should check in here more often as I do intend to get Geneva. (I hope it works without inf. files. :). Thanks. Linda. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 178 Sun Feb 06, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:24 EST Styv, I haven't seen that dialog box about an undefined error. Don't use LDW, though. RJK, No, I haven't seen TM bomb that way except when the Geneva versions are mixed up and the wrong files are being loaded. Try turning off the fast-load bit. Also, make sure TASKMAN.RSC is in (for example) the RSC folder as specified in the PATH, in the root of C: (if your DAs are located in the root) or in the folder the TM accessory is being loaded from. Jason, Make sure NeoDesk is configured NOT to unload for execute, which might cause that kind of problem. (It can't multitask if it bonks out when an app is run.) The Geneva folder does NOT have to be in C:, by the way. Mine is on D:, and always has been. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 179 Sun Feb 06, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 11:46 EST Jason, Two CPs don't cause a problem per se, but the one that loads later does the controlling (except for the parameters that the first one sets and the second one doesn't), so use one or the other. With all due respect to Dan's NeoDesk CP, I prefer Xcontrol because of the CPXes; I have about 30 to 35 installed. Control panels have global effects, so there's no need to use one that works with the shell if you have another in the ACC chain. Linda, I'll have to go back to the Lamp to see what you are referring to. ... Ah, yes, the HD cache. This actually means nothing EXCEPT to those who use a write-back cache, as I do. A write-back cache - the only ones I know of are the ones in ICD and MasterCache software - stores data in memory for a certain period before writing it back to the HD. This speeds up disk access dramatically ... and endangers data that is being changed if the computer is rebooted while the data in the cache (in memory) has not yet been written back to the disk. Boot managers work by changing the files on the disk and then rebooting the computer, and so they're the ones to watch out for. In most other uses, a write-back cache can be set and mostly forgotten, as long as you remember to wait a designated period between any file access and a reboot. (ICD's default delay is 1/2-second, although its cache can be set for a much longer delay for the adventurous.) I don't think this scenario could be responsible for the disappearing INF files, but anything is possible in this world. :) Ah, my friend, Geneva DOES work with INF files of a sort. It has two config files, and refers to them on bootup. (Sorry!) Why don't you (again!) post a description of this problem in the TT topic and I'll give it another shot. This must be fixable. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 180 Sun Feb 06, 1994 L.BUDNICK [Lorne] at 14:05 EST STYVWERX, I am getting the same message when exiting LDW. I am also running on a 20mb TT using Release .003. I have not noticed any problems is subsequent operations either. It would however, be a bit comforting to understand what might be causing this, and if there is any unseen problems that may be lurking somewhere after such a dialog is seen. Dan??? What say yeah? On another subject.... Yes, while I must agree it is possible to work within a GENEVA only environment, realistically, a desktop shell will be a requirement from this users point-of-view. So, when was it that NEO 4.0 was going to be available?? Later, Lorne.... ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 181 Sun Feb 06, 1994 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 21:37 EST Al, I'm not totally clear on your response when you suggest that NeoDesk is configured NOT to unload for execute. How do I check that out and change it if necessary. As I'm exploring Geneva, let me check out if I'm correct about the following things: 1. I mainly use Wordperfect, Aladdin, Diamond Edge, Diamond Back, Arcshell (version 1.31), to name a few. 2. I believe all of these are single tasking programs, correct? 3. That means that if I run one, the others are asleep, correct? Meaning, that if I use Aladdin to access GEnie and messages are scrolling on my screen, and if I then go into WordPerfect, nothing else is going to scroll further in Aladdin. It's going to kind of hang there until I re-access Aladdin, correct? So this means that I'm not really multitasking, like trying to download something, while I go back into WordPerfect. Am I understanding this right? 4. I notice that if I run ArcShell (versin 1.31) using Neodesk as a shell in Geneva, then when I exit Arcshell, I get a clear screen (no menu bars). This doesn't occur when I run and exit Arcshell from Neodesk without Geneva present, just when Geneva is present. Any ideas on this, anybody? 5. I see how I can move alert boxes from the top of the screen to the center, for example, but how do I save that so that when I access, for example, Aladdin the next time around, the alert box is in the center rather than elsewhere on the screen? 6. I also notice that when I have Geneva run WordPerfect and Aladdin automatically when I boot up, and then I access WP, and then Aladdin, and then WP again, my Codekey designations from Aladdin carry over into WP. In other words, I lose my CodeKey keys tailor made for WP if I've left WP, using NeoDesk/Geneva, and then go back into WP. Anybody else notice this or is there a way around that. Note: I've got a specific CodeKeys file (WORDPERF.KEY) that loads when I run WP and a specific file (ALADDIN.KEY) that loads when I run Aladdin. Thanks for the input and help!!.....Jason ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 182 Mon Feb 07, 1994 T.GIRSCH [TJ @ S-Mart] at 01:41 EST All - Those who might be interested in Geneva right away, and NeoDesk later, can take heart: there is a Geneva-specific version of a program called JumpStart (a program launcher) on GEnie, which (though I've not looked at it) I assume, has a more advanced interface than does Geneva manager. Lorne - Do those "undefined errors" give you an error NUMBER? While I don't use LDW Power, I have had the undefined errors, although I haven't paid any attention to which programs do this. If my understanding is correct, all it means is that when the program exited, it returned a status code other than 0. When programs exit they return a status code. By convention, a status code of 0 means that the program was executed and exited successfully. However, it's possible that LDW either doesn't specify a return code (which means it would be random) or that it conforms to a less-common convention which has positive or zero return codes meaning success, and negative return codes meaning failure. If this is the case (as happened with one or two of my programs), then the program may return "1" meaning (in its framework) "OK," but Geneva interprets this as unknown error #1. This is merely speculation, since I am not intimately familiar with Geneva's handling of return codes, but from a programming standpoint that would be my best guess. Jason - Yup, those are all single tasking (to my knowledge) programs. Diamond Back and Diamond Edge do not force me into single-tasking mode (Geneva tells you if it's going to do that), but with such disk-sensitive programs, it would be a really bad idea to multi-task them. As for Aladdin, blame the programmer (don't get me wrong, Aladdin is a fine program, but he cheated). Basically, the programmer of Aladdin broke quite a few rules when writing it, such that Aladdin doesn't get along with other programs (its display and interface are non-standard). Dan (Gribnif) decided it would be better to run Aladdin single-tasking than not at all. STalker does work fine in multi-tasking mode. As for ArcShell single-tasking, I think it has to do with the fact that it switches between GEM (dialog) mode and full-screen (TOS) mode. It would be highly annoying to be in the middle of, say, a WordPerfect document, and suddenly your screen clears because ArcShell has switched to full-screen mode. So, yes, with those programs your observation is correct: you're not multitasking. I -have-, however, been able to multitask just fine with STZip (2.4), Word Writer, Data Manager, and several other programs that are GEM- interfaced and don't "cheat." As for Arcshell leaving a clear screen, you're using a WAYYYY old version of arcshell. It's up above three, now. You might try setting the "Redraw on exit" flag for that program in Geneva's task manager. With the alert box issue, in your task manager "Misc Options" menu, do you have "Alerts follow mouse" set? If so, turn it off. I don't use CodeKeys, so I can't posit any solutions for that problem. *Whew*... I think I got 'em all... - T.J. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 183 Mon Feb 07, 1994 JRH [Roger] at 06:08 EST Bill, The entry for Word Perfect from my GENEVA.CNF file is: {WP.PRG} {Word Perfect} 5A100000 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 I have "Clear allocated memory", "Redraw upon exiting", "Automtic keyboard equivs" and "Undraw auto keyboard equivs" set. Every thing else is unchecked. I believe that is the way it came as default with Rel 003 - I do not recall changing anything. Roger ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 184 Mon Feb 07, 1994 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 10:57 EST J.SAFFER Hotwire works with Geneva but not in a real Multitasking way. You have to run HW through G in the boot process. You can then use HW but with only one program at a time. You can always switch to G to run other programs. Maxifile can be booted as a DA and given a macro to call it up from G. Works great....less filling! John, I found out (by trial and error) that W9 had to be after Jar and G. The main reason for running Pinhead or W9 early is that it speeds up the boot time tremendously. Papa, How do you know when its time to refill the cartridge in the Deskjet? I just bought one for my PC and am wondering when I will need to refill it. What refill kit would you reccomend? I've seen them advertised here and there. I first bought a Deskjet when they first came out. I paid close to $900 for it. I sold it for more than I paid for my new one ($247). Steve ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 185 Mon Feb 07, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:27 EST Jason, In multi-tasking systems like Geneva (and MultiTOS), it becomes a problem for programs like CodeKeys, Warp 9, and others which alter your environment when different programs run. CodeKeys needs to think that you've quit one program and run another and this needs to happen each time you switch between tasks (CodeKeys would reload the appropriate KEY file each time you switch). We're working with Dan to find a solution to this. There's one that may work even with existing copies of CodeKeys, Warp 9, PinHead, etc. Let's hope it works. John ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 186 Mon Feb 07, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:41 EST Steve, Yes, I believe I mentioned that Jar and Geneva need to run before Warp 9. Once again, use Warp 9's fastload option, turn OFF the fastload bits of all programs except those which run before Warp 9. Turn those ON if you have TOS 1.4 or later, or use MAKEFAST.PRG on your Warp 9 disk if you have TOS 1.0-1.2. This will give you the fastest bootup time possible. John ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 187 Mon Feb 07, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 14:17 EST John, If you get a chance... could you swim up topic to cat 3, top 31 and let me have your opinion/expertise or whatever you can glean on doing the neat stuff I'm trying to do quickly? Thanx, --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 188 Mon Feb 07, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 17:37 EST Gerry, They allow programs that are aware of them to cooperate in a multitasking env. much better. In a nutshell. --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 189 Mon Feb 07, 1994 R.SNYDER6 [Roger S.] at 20:53 EST You can get sort of a multitaksing with Aladdin online. If you set the multitasking flag, programs you run in the background will continue even when Aladdin is online. If Aladdin is online, but not carrying out a command (DL, Autopass, etc) you can still switch to other applications, though Aladdin is not multitasking because it is not doing anything. If Aladdin is executing a command, you can not switch out. Running programs in the background while Aladdin is online is not real practical since they will slow down Aladdin (and cost you more money). I have played around with Aladddin as a TOS program, but it works the same. --Roger Oh, BTW, I get the same hang as Jason exiting ArcShell, though it only happens sometimes (and I am using 3.1). It seems that it only happens if I have Aladdin also loaded (and asleep), though it may not just be Aladdin--it is hard to check because it does noty seem to do it every time so there may be a combination of factors. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 190 Mon Feb 07, 1994 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 22:20 EST Jason, 2. Yes. 3. Yes. That is a limitation of the design of those programs. Newer programs are being written to be more "multitasking friendly". (Like the soon to be out revision of Diamond Back). 4. You might want to make sure that you have the "Redraw upon exiting" flag on for ARCShell. It is on by default. 5. Alert positions cannot be saved. They are regenerated internally every time you use them, and so they do not lend themselves to being dragged. You might want to try the "Alerts follow mouse" Misc. option instead. 6. This is a limitation of the way that the current version of CodeKeys works. It has no concept of what the current "active" application is. This is not a bug, just a (previously correct) assumption that the operating system would not be multitasking. Bill N., Now I remember! You definitely need to have the "AES 4.0" flag off for WordPerfect or you get the cycling problems. The "Maximize window areas" one also has to be off for the status line to appear. It is really soundling like these settings are not getting read. Do you definitely have GENEVA.CNF in the GENEVA folder on C:? More importantly, do you definitely have WordPerfect as WP.PRG, and not something else? RJK, That's truly an odd one. Does this happen even without any other DA's loading? What AUTO folder programs are you using? There is almost no difference betweeen the way TASKMAN runs as a DA vs. as a PRG. Styvwerx & Lorne, The dialog box is just reporting an "error" code that is returned by LDW. It really doesn't mean anything, and is the result of bad programming in LDW. If you run LDW from NeoDesk, you can turn this off in Set Preferences. As far as DynaCADD goes, it sounds as though it is executing another portion of itself after the initial one. Is there another file whose name sounds like it might be something executable, like "DYNACADD.OVL" or something? If so, then you should try creating a single-tasking flag for that, too. I unfortunately don't have it here to test with. TJ, 1. The Mac font is one that I drew and I've modified the arrows so that they are (more monochrome-friendly) triangles. I'll post it at some point. 2. Yeah, I was a bit annoyed to discover that the ad copy did not transfer well enough to print for the MultiTOS bars to appear (they were a light grey pattern on the original.) At least it went the right way . Dave Ness, Geneva emulates all of the AES 4.0 calls and extensions which are part of MultiTOS. It does not emulate the MiNT-specific calls (like pipes, file locking, etc.), though. Ukrainian, Are you using NeoDesk 3.04? It sounds as though you may not be. If you are not, then you need to use the patch program that comes with Geneva to update to NeoDesk 3.04. I also second the suggestion that you need to use FOLDRxxx.PRG in your AUTO folder. Ken H., There are essentially two ways, and both work here: 1. Video from NEWDESK/DESKTOP.INF on: Geneva reads the rez setting from this file and uses it. 2. Off: It uses the one stored in GENEVA.CNF. This is saved by the Task Manager when you Save Settings. One suggestion: you may want to make sure you don't have both a DESKTOP and a NEWDESK.INF file. Also, if you use a boot manager, make sure it is writing the correct resolution info to the file. Kevin, Well, it handles code coverage (shows you what code is used and what code is not) but it doesn't ensure that variables get initialized. If fast loading is what you are concerned about, you should know that if you actually define a static variable in a C program it is always initialized to zero. The time that fastloading is important is when you either malloc() or Malloc() memory. One other person has reported a problem with some of the buttons in SAMCFG under Geneva. it's on my list of things to look into. Is this what you mean? I do have SAM on the Falcon here now. Mel, I'll try that one out. Gerry, I'm glad you liked the ad. Personally, I don't think it's one of our best ones . Actually your order went out by UPS on 2/2 (the day after you ordered it.) We send by whatever method is cheapest for the customer: in this case it was UPS. Sometimes, if you order just one or two items we can send it by US Mail Priority (which is an unguaranteed 2nd day service.) Harcourt, One other person has reported this, too, and it is on my list of things to look into for the next version. The only suggestion I have at this point is to try setting up a flag with the "Clear allocated memory" option On. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 191 Mon Feb 07, 1994 P.NEREO [Philip] at 23:34 EST Styvwerx - I just got Geneva, and have found I can work with Dcadd if I set it for singletasking, and open it first. The autostart dialog comes up, and I open a drawing. Then I can put it to sleep, and use other programs, then pop back into Dcadd any time. With 4 megs, I can run WFII and Dcadd together, but can't print out on my SLM 804 under WFlair II. I guess there's not enough memory, cause the print option is greyed out. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 192 Tue Feb 08, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 00:40 EST Dan, You mentioned it might be better not to have both a desktop.inf and newdesk.inf file on the drive. What might be the problem if this is so. I have to have both files because I sometimes use a 1040 st with 1.4, and most of the time use a mega with 2.06. I have Desk Manager choosing the appropriate patches for each system. Actually, doesn't Desk Manager always write a desktop.inf file, so anyone using this boot manager would have both files.... John B. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 193 Tue Feb 08, 1994 C.NICHOLLS [BILL] at 02:12 EST Dan, Thanks for the info on WordPerfect flags. Needless to say, it works, and I can now use WP without problems. I understand what you're saying about flag settings not being read. For some time, I have been getting surer that when I installed the patch to 003, the flag settings didn't get properly overwritten for some reason. I keep on reading references to things being shipped a certain way, and that's not the way they are in my system. Perhaps I should look at reinstalling GENEVA.CNF. Anyway, I'm happy to acknowledge that the fault is definitely not yours. Roger, Thanks very much. Dan confirms your information. Bill ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 194 Tue Feb 08, 1994 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 02:29 EST T.J. -- thanks for your response, and everyone else who is being a great help as I acclimate to this major revision for the Atari. T.J., your suggestion regarding the alert boxes in Aladdin was a great one. I've deactivated the "alerts follow mouse" item and now have my alert boxes showing up in the center of the screen! Thanks much. I'm still trying to get a handle on why my screen sometimes hangs when I exit an application while in Geneva. I thought it was unique to Arcshell (I do have version 3.1, by the way) but I also notice it happens sporadically when I exit from Aladdin too. (When I say "exit," I don't mean using the topmost left menu to move from application to application -- I mean actually quitting the program). So far, I am noticing that this problem seems to occur most often, if not all the time, when I run Diamond Edge and then put it to sleep, and then run another program and then quit it. If anybody else has Edge that they can experiment with, maybe let us know if this is replicable? Again: run Edge and then put it to sleep by going back into Geneva or Neodesk; then run another application like Aladdin or ArcShell and then completely quit that program. See if your screen hangs there....AFTER MORE EXPERIMENTING: I'm at a loss about this symptom of exiting into a blank screen. It seems to come and go, no rhyme or reason. It NEVER occurs if I just run a program and then exit. It only will occur -- and only sometimes -- when I've run a program and then go back into Neodesk in order to run another program while the first one sleeps. It's weird, and I don't like it. Is it maybe a function of ram running out of large enough blocks to run a program. I've got a TT with 4 megs ST and 4 megs TT ram? I just can't figure it. Roger, you mention having the same hanging symptom on occasion. Have you seen any pattern? Is it on a TT with color monitor? Speaking of Diamond Edge: when I would run Edge before Geneva on my color TT monitor, I'd have nice green colors. With Geneva, most of Edge is gray and it's a bit hard to see the graph lines. I think Edge is being influenced by my settings in Wordperfect, where I have to have a number of the color pallette boxes in black in order to retain a black typeface and black cursor arrow. But I'm not sure about that. Anybody know how to regain more colorful screen colors in Edge? I've experimented with the pallette using the control panel but it doesn't seem to affect the Edge display all that much. - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Monday, February 7, 1994 10:56 pm ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 195 Tue Feb 08, 1994 C.NICHOLLS [BILL] at 02:53 EST Dan, It now seems to me that the flags that show up in the Taskmanager are not the same as those shown in GENEVA.CNF. Is there a possible explanation for this? Probably I'm doing something wrong. GENEVA.CNF is in the Geneva folder on drive C. Bill ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 196 Tue Feb 08, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:27 EST John, That would be great. I miss the auto-load feature of CodeKeys. I've put all the important macros into one main key file, and have given some thought to another p[ossibility: Suppose I ran TWO CodeKeys, each with different sets of macros, and put one or the other to sleep when I wanted a certain set? Seems like it would work. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 197 Tue Feb 08, 1994 R.COOPER2 [Rob] at 04:35 EST Steve: >I found out (by trial and error) that W9 had to be after Jar and G. >The main reason for running Pinhead or W9 early is that it speeds up >the boot time tremendously. You could have saved yourself some time... it says that Warp 9 must run after Geneva at the bottom of the page. ;^) Rob ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 198 Tue Feb 08, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 18:03 EST See Flat, The warning about having a DESKTOP.INF present under TOS 2.06 is rather specific. If I remember correctly, the problem will only arise if the TOS 2.06 desktop boots up, can't find a NEWDESK.INF file, and loads a DESKTOP.INF file. Furthermore, it may only occur if the DESKTOP.INF file was originally created under an older TOS (like 1.0 or 1.2). If you have a DESKTOP.INF file created by TOS 1.4 and a NEWDESK.INF file created by TOS 2.06, I don't think you'll have any problems whatsoever with your INF files. Each TOS version will find the one it needs. Al, If you want to manually switch CodeKeys between KEY files, it's easier to simply start KEY files as documents (for LOADKEYS.PRG) than it is to put one or the other to sleep. Actually, that latter method wouldn't even work because the macros are kept in the AUTO program's memory. Just install your KEY files as documents and start them in your favorite manner. John ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 199 Tue Feb 08, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 19:38 EST Dan, The newsletter hasn't arrived yet. Snail mail has never quite been so accurate a term. Can you send another? Jason, Sounds like you haven't yet discovered the Background Colors CPX. It does wonderful things. You never quite know which apps will make use of it, but a friend of mine who uses Diamond Edge raved about the BC CPX and that's how I got to try it. Geneva's TM dialogs make use of those colors, too. Bill, When you have a problem like this one, search for all possible GENEVA.CNF files and move them into an out-of-the-way place. Run Geneva and save the TM settings, then look to see where it put the CNF file. Then you'll know where you should put the good one. I know this is sort of backseat aviation here, but it always works. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 200 Tue Feb 08, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 20:41 EST John, Thanks for the answer. As usual, my way of looking 'round the forest neglected the trees in the foreground.... Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 201 Tue Feb 08, 1994 L.BUDNICK [Lorne] at 22:23 EST TJ, Yes I do get an error number. With LDW the message I get is as follows; 'Process LDWPOWER exited with status #1 (undefined error)'. As Dan has indicated, this apparently is not a REAL problem. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 202 Tue Feb 08, 1994 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 23:59 EST WOW... It all finally arrived... Spent the better part of the day today at work holed up in my office, reading the Geneva and NeoDesk manuals. First off, GREAT job on that manual, Al. An excellent piece of work. (Oh, and nice job on the PROGRAM, too, Dan! :-) ) Second... did I get lucky and get Geneva Serial # 1000 or does everyone have that? One very quick question that I know has been addressed here before: am I correct in remembering that the mouse pointer goes a little nutty in Word Perfect? (Mine stays continually at the hourglass until I retrieve a file) Or am I supposed to change a flag on that. Finally -- and don't ask me how this is happening -- right now I've got Aladdin _multitasking_ with PG Music's "Jazz Pianist," even though I didn't change Aladdin's configuration in Geneva. It doesn't play continually, but if I put Aladdin to sleep long enough to let "Pianist" load in a MIDI file, then go back to Aladdin, the whole file plays out. Neat. Good job all the way around, guys. I'm looking forward to getting into this program DEEPLY! -Gerry ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 203 Wed Feb 09, 1994 B.KANTOR [Bruce] at 00:03 EST J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead], I am eagerly waiting for the CodeKeys/Warp 9 - Geneva fix you and Dan are working on. I wish you guys the best of luck on solving this one. Regards, Bruce ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 204 Wed Feb 09, 1994 R.SNYDER6 [Roger S.] at 00:51 EST Jason, I haven't been able to figure a pattern to the screen hanging upon exiting, but I only have that problem with acrshell (I think--it is one of my most used programs so an occational hang with another might not catch my attention) and it doesn't happen all the time. I _think_ it might only happen with Aladdin in the background, but I need to check this out more. Well, thing is not totally true, I do get the same sort of bachground screen/no menu bar upon exiting Aladdin--but only if I have run Aladdin twice (i.e. it is asleep in the background and instead of switching to it I make the mistake of running it again) which I expect to cause trouble. Maybe there is some realtionship, because the effect is the same upon exiting both programs with Aladdin asleep. You got me. --Roger Oh, this is on a Mega 2+2 and monochrome. (It might happen in colour, but I use the colour monitor so rarely I don't know). ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 205 Wed Feb 09, 1994 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 01:59 EST I'm trying to remove the underscoring lines that I'm finding when I access Maxifile as an accessory when I'm in Geneva. The first 10 or so files listed have one letter in each word underlined. Using TaskManager, I access the flags list for MaxiFile and I find that when I deactivate the "auto keyboard equivalent" button, the underscoring in MaxiFile disappears. I then save the setting using TaskManager. But when I reboot, the lines are back in MaxiFile. Anybody else notice these lines in Maxi? And how do I permanently get rid of them? I'm running into the same problem regarding losing my activation key settings. I set them up via TaskMan and then save the settings. But they don't persist into the next bootup. I use XBoot and, based on the the manual, I'm probably losing the newly saved configuration file somehow when XBoot does its thing. But I can't figure out what I'm supposed to do after saving the settings via TaskMan so they don't disappear on me next time around. By the same token, I also wrote some notes on my NeoDesk desktop with the new activation key settings, following the manual tip, and then I saved the Neodesk configuration. Once again, when I rebooted, the desktop notes were gone. Probably the same issue with XBoot. Help!! I also sort of resolved my CodeKeys difficulty with Geneva, by stopping using a separate WordPerfect.key file and a separate Aladdin.key file and just using the default codekey.key file, combining my most-often used macros into that one key file. That way the codekey.key file is operative no matter which program I'm in. One other question: Using the Geneva file selector, is it possible to view a text file? - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Tuesday, February 8, 1994 10:54 am ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 206 Wed Feb 09, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 03:04 EST John E. thanks for the response. I had never seen an apparent problem directly related to inf files. When I boot with the 1040 1.4 or Mega2.06 everything works fine. I was asking because I do get some crashes sometimes and wonder.....why the heck did that happen.... What Bruce said: > >I am eagerly waiting for the CodeKeys/Warp 9 - Geneva fix you and Dan are >working on. I wish you guys the best of luck on solving this one. I dont' have Codekeys but have had no trouble running Warp9 with Geneva? John B. ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 207 Wed Feb 09, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 03:39 EST See Flat, If you use program-specific Warp 9 configurations (such as different background pictures, mouse jump, etc.) under Geneva, Warp 9 will not change its settings when you switch tasks, only when the programs are first loaded. Other than this, there is no problem using Warp 9 with Geneva. John ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 208 Wed Feb 09, 1994 T.FITZPATRI8 [Tom] at 04:59 EST Jason, XBoot (or any boot manager, for that manner) certainly could cause those symptoms. After you save your settings in the Task Manager and NeoDesk, you need to move and rename the GENEVA.CNF and NEODESK.NOT files for XBoot. The folks in the XBoot topic (CAT 17 TOP 11, I believe) can talk you through the process better than we can here. As to your other question, can you view a file while at the Geneva file selector? Sorry, no. However, as Geneva IS a multitasking operating system, you can always cancel out of the file selector, activate NeoDesk and view a file from there. Or use a desk accessory text editor. John, Without getting into too much detail, is the current proposal to "lie" to TSRs--sending the message that a new program is being executed each time the primary window ownership changes? Does this stand to be a quick and minor change, or are we talking about imposing a noticeable speed penalty in task switching to gain such a feature? Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 209 Wed Feb 09, 1994 JRH [Roger] at 06:48 EST Jason, Yes, I see the same sypmtom - exit a program and end up with a totally blank screen with a blank white menu bar at the top. I am running my TT with a monochrome monitor, TOS 3.06, 20 megs of RAM. I have not run Arcshell or Diamond Edge under Geneva, so it is not those two programs specifically. I have not been expecting it when it happens so have not really observed any pattern yet - I will try to pay more attention to when it happens. It does seem to me that I have only seen it when I have two or three applications loaded at the same time, one or more of which is single tasking, and then I do a lot of switching between the various applications. Typically the things I might have loaded at one time include from among PageStream, That's Write 3, STraight FAX, Aladdin, Touch Up, and Phasar. Roger ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 210 Wed Feb 09, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:03 EST Gerry, Turn off AES 4.0 extended messages in the Task Manager's flags for WordPerfect. It should have come set up this way. If you don't have any flags already preset, Geneva is not finding the GENEVA.CNF that came with the program. BTW, Dan's work is visible throughout the manual, and he must get credit for that. I find it interesting that the top programmers for the Atari systems (the 'Heads, Dan, Charles Smeton, and so on) are all exceptionally good writers. Jason, You're right. XBoot is reverting to the older settings, and is erasing all the changes you've made to Geneva and NeoDesk and so on. I'm not an XBooter, so I can't give you specifics, but in general the procedure is to make your changes and then, BEFORE REBOOTING, to copy the new INF or CNF file to the folder that contains the XBoot config files (the ones XBoot uses when it copies, say, MEDRES.INF in C:\XBOOT\CONFIG to C:\DESKTOP.INF. (I hope this is clear. Your folder names will be something else, probably.) My advice on using a booter is to use it for the GEM.CNF only, not for the GENEVA.CNF. Geneva knows which res you are in, and is able to handle all sorts of little things that a boot utility would have been needed for in the old days, so the only real advantage to a boot utility is in being able to use different GEM.CNF files under various circumstances. I have four or five, max. One of them has a false path for the ACC files, so that the main DAs are bypassed, and only those listed in the run= line are loaded, for example. I'd recongure XBoot so that it does not touch GENEVA.CNF (and does not get near the NeoDesk INF files either; those should never need to be boot- managed). Then work from there. If you are having a hard time with XBoot, cancel it out of the auto folder and get back to it after a while; no sense letting a boot utility get in the way, sindce you can easily disable Geneva with a hotkey anyway. Also, there is currently no way to view a file from the G item selector. You can rename, get info on, copy, move and delete a file or folder, create a folder, and search for files and folders, but, alas, no View function. I would not be surprised to see a third-party utility that handles that before long. :) Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 211 Wed Feb 09, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 12:05 EST Someone else mentioned it here, but I'll add my report. I also have problems with Diamond Edge under Geneva. No BIG problem, but, in ST Medium, the colors are not correct. (I am running Edge single tasking. Seems like multi-tasking a de-fragger could be dangerous! ) Usually the left side of the Diamond Edge screen uses the background color. Under Geneva it is white. The color keys under the map for testing are usually white for free, background for ok and red for problem. Not so under Geneva. I get background for both free and ok. Only the keys, the map seems ok. When doing a de-frag the keys are ok, but when Edge is defragging, I don't see chunks of the frag map going white as Edge clears that portion of the partition. I've played with various Geneva flags without success. I've also tried using NeoDesk alone and Geneva without NeoDesk. Geneva vs. Edge seems to be the problem. Hope Dan and Bob Luneski can get together on this one. Like I said, the problem seems to be cosmetic, but I'd sure feel better if Edge behaved as expected under Geneva. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 10:03 AM Mountain Time Wednesday, February 9, 1994 ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 212 Wed Feb 09, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:48 EST Tom, Yes, if Geneva would send fake Pterm() and Pexec() calls whenever a different task was brought to the top, programs like CodeKeys, Warp 9, Data Diet, etc., would be able to swap their configurations. As for a speed penalty, it would depend on the installed utilities. For instance, when CodeKeys loads a KEY file automatically, it displays a message at the top of the screen. On my system, this takes only a split-second. Since this would only happen when the user selects another task, it shouldn't be too imposing. But it takes a bit longer for Warp 9 to load a background picture. The user would have to decide what he can live with. John ------------ Category 17, Topic 19 Message 213 Wed Feb 09, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 13:20 EST John, If fake Pterm() and Pexec() calls are the way to go, what mode would you want the fake calls to use? Some new bogus mode that really doesn't do anything? Or would it have to be the _real_ thing (a load & go). Umm... I meant the Pexec modes, not Pterm. BTW, anyone hear anymore about PowerDos? What's going on with it? Wasn't it a completely rewritten set of Bios and Xbios routines made to multitask, or was it like Mint and just sits on top of ROM TOS? --Kevin ------------