========================================================================= (C) 1994 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 2 Sat Jun 05, 1993 STEVE-J [Steve @ NLS] (Forwarded) Sub: Atari Jaguar 64-bit RISC Game Console This topic is to ask about Atari's new 64-bit RISC-based game console the Jaguar. Ask here if you need help or have a technical question to ask about the JAGUAR. Discuss it CURRENT details and characteristics. 215 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 1 Sat Jun 05, 1993 STEVE-J [Steve @ NLS] (Forwarded) Since Atari has now officially announced the Jaguar, it now deserves its own topic in the official Atari Corp. category. To start things off on the 'official' Jaguar topic, here's the Jaguar press release: OTC 06/03 1552 ATARI LAUNCHES THE JAGUAR, A 64-BIT MULTI-MEDIA GAME SYSTEM SUNNYVALE, CA (JUNE 3) PR NEWSWIRE - Atari Corp. (AMEX: ATC), the founder of the video game industry and the creative force behind some of the world's best- known titles, has announced the launch of a revolutionary new multi- media entertainment system, the Atari Jaguar. The launch will be supported by aggressive advertising, promotion and marketing efforts to be centered in the New York market in the fall, with a national roll-out of the product within one year. The Atari Jaguar, housed in a futuristic casing, is an interactive multi- media system based on an Atari-designed proprietary 64-bit RISC processor. The 64-bit system is four times the technology currently seen in the market today. The Atari Jaguar features over 16 million colors in 24-bit true-color graphics and produces shaded 3-D polygons to be manipulated in a "real" world in real time. The Atari Jaguar also has real-time texture mapping and creates spectacular video effects. The sound system is based on Atari's proprietary, high-speed, Digital Signal Processor dedicated to audio. The audio is 16-bit stereo CD quality and processes simultaneous sources of audio data, allowing for very realistic sounds, as well as human voices, which are essential for future multi-media applications. The Atari Jaguar is truly expandable and will include a 32-bit expansion port which allows for future connection into cable and telephone networks, as well as a digital signal processing port for modem use and connection to digital audio peripherals such as DAT players. The unit will also have a compact disc peripheral, which will be double- speed and will play regular CD audio, CD + G (Karaoke) and Kodak's new Photo- CD(R). Currently, there are multiple software titles in development, which will be available on MegaCart(TM). Atari, known for such groundbreaking 3-D titles as "Battlezone 2000(R)" and "Tempest 2000(R)," will issue spectacular new versions for the Atari Jaguar. New 3-D game titles will include "Cybermorph(R)," "Alien vs. Predator(R)," "Jaguar Formula One Racing(TM)" and many more. Atari will license third-party publishers to join the Jaguar family. "The Atari Jaguar system will revolutionize the state of home entertainment as we see it today," said Sam Tramiel, president of Atari. "The idea of a 64- bit system is earth shattering and kids and adults will be amazed at both the imagery and manipulative capabilities. And we are proud that our entry into the multi-media entertainment category will be fully made in America." The Atari Jaguar will retail for approximately $200 and will be available nationwide next year. The Atari Jaguar packaged unit will include one software experience and a Power Pad(R) Controller with a ten-key pad and other special features. Atari Corp. manufactures and markets personal computers and video games for the home, office and educational marketplaces throughout the world. Atari headquarters are located at 1196 Borregas Ave., Sunnyvale, CA 94089. CONTACT: August J. Liguori of Atari Corp., 408-745-2069 ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 2 Fri Feb 25, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 20:48 EST SPIDER, Let me know if Sheldon can't do anything for you. (Though this is hardly _ever_ the case) Maybe we can work something out! Good luck, Matt ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 3 Sat Feb 26, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 01:17 EST Thanks for the info Kevin. If Sheldon @ Computer Studio can't help him out, we'll most likely use one of those methods. Hmm, wonder if they have Western Union in Switzerland?! Matt ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 4 Sat Feb 26, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 02:57 EST Matt, They have Western Union in Jamaica. --Kevin ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 5 Sat Feb 26, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 04:26 EST Here's in interesting bit of news I ran across Friday night... Drew Pictures is interested in doing IRON HELIX for the Jaguar CD!!! ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 6 Sat Feb 26, 1994 C.SMITH89 [CLINT/A.P.E.] at 16:06 EST I got a Winter CES in Review magazine today from the Electronic Industries Association(the people who run the CES). They mention Atari as one of the companies getting into CD games and they also mention the Jaguar as one of the new high power systems. There's 8 pages of "HOT Product Picks" and the Jaguar is shown. Finally, they asked some prominent journalists to give their choices for the best products at the show. Vince Broady, associate editor at Multimedia World, has the Jag as one of his choices. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 7 Sun Feb 27, 1994 M.TOBLER [SPIDER] at 04:15 EST Hi Matt (and all others in NYC Area) Well I contacted Sheldon Winick, but unfortunately he has no jags on stock and he is can not guarantue when the next shipment arrives. Well, there is good thing to tell you: You would not need to send the jag to Switzerland, I have a friend who lives in Keene, NY, and I think you could send the equipment to him, and the payment would be much easier. So the only thing you would have to do is to get the equipment in a store as fast as possible and send it to my friend in Keene, NY !!! Isn't that great ??? Well, if you are unable to get one for me in a store PLEASE COULD ANYBODY OUT THERE ON GENIE WHO LIVES NEAR A STORE WHERE THEY HAVE JAGS ON STOCK MAKE THIS FOR ME ??? Well, the equipment I need is the following: - Jaguar with Cybermorph - 1 extra controller - Dino Dudes I WOULD BE VERY HAPPY IF SOMEBODY COULD GET THIS EQUIPMENT FOR ME ASAP !! The payment should be NO PROBLEM 'cause my friend in Keene, NY would pay it. Thank to all people that are supporting me here. cu, SPIDER Oh, if this doesn't work, I have an offer from Honolulu, Hawai, where a store has a few jags in stock. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 8 Sun Feb 27, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 08:59 EST SPIDER, I'll check my local stores for the things you want. Let you know later tonight. Matt ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 9 Sun Feb 27, 1994 D.SHORR at 16:53 EST Next week's 'On Computers' will have Atari as a guest to discuss the Jaguar; at the end of this week's show their video game expert compared all the game machines to late night talk show hosts. The SNES was compared to Jay Leno(conservative), SEGA to Letterman, 3DO to Conan O'Brien(up and coming), and the Jag was compared to...EX late night talk show host Chevy Chase! If anyone wants a list of affiliate stations, I can send it up. The list is available on DELPHI(and you DON'T need a DELPHI account to see it). Dave ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 10 Sun Feb 27, 1994 E.BAIZ at 17:30 EST A friend of mine made me a S-video cable and it works great. The picture and the stereo sound really show off the Jag's capabilities. I do have one question. For those of you who built your own cables, what did you use to support your cables to the 64-pin connector? I was thinking of 2 triangular pieces held together with screw. I just know someone is going to trip and pull the connections out. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 11 Sun Feb 27, 1994 C.UNDERWOOD1 [Carson] at 17:34 EST Dave, >If anyone wants a list of affiliate stations, I can send it up. Please do post that list. I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in watching that program. Carson ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 12 Sun Feb 27, 1994 KEBAUM [bobo] at 23:08 EST Just finished my JAG A/V cable. It's got RGB for my Panasync RGB monitor, composite,S-VHS and stereo. I haven't checked the S-VHS out yet. I'll have to bring it to work. Anyway, with my Panasync monitor I got picture roll only when I switched Hsync with Vsync. It would only work properly if I fed the Jag's composite sync(H&V) to the Panasyncs Horizontal, and left the Panasync's Vertical Sync unconnected. RGB is unbelievable! If you have a compatable monitor around then you must go this way. Unless you have a really big TV (27"+), then the thrill of the size might outway the sharpness factor. Although I do love the little skulls on the radar of Cybermorph. Oh yeah, for my A/V connector I used the cartridge slot from a Atari 2600 game machine. It fits perfectly and has the exact number of pins. And besides I had 4 of them anyway. Does anyone out there know if the expansion slot on Atari's 7800 has A/V out also? I'd like to improve it's picture as well. Ken ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 13 Sun Feb 27, 1994 C.SMITH89 [CLINT/A.P.E.] at 23:10 EST Chevy Chase? Chevy Chase? I'm offended(besides the Sega CD would be Chevy Chase). I do agree with the 3DO/Conan thing though(lots of hype but with nothing to back it up). Personally, I'd go for a Schwarzenager film comparison myself. Kindergarten Cop(Sanitized Arnold)=Nintendo Terminator(fast action but could look cooler with better technology)=Sega Last Action Hero(big hype, big money, less filling)=3DO Terminator 2(kick-butt, state of the art action)=Jaguar ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 14 Mon Feb 28, 1994 R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23] at 04:07 EST I wish I could figure out why my S-cable didn't come out right. I must have tried every possible permutation of the wires -- to no avail! Grumble. + ON-AIR [09:42 PM-27/Feb/94] + + LIVE AND DIRECT + ROD MARTIN, NETWORK 23 SOFTWARE ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 15 Mon Feb 28, 1994 D.SHORR at 19:36 EST Carson, I just uploaded the list to the library(#32102); you'll be listening to the program(supposedly they'll be on CNBC in the fall). Dave ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 17 Tue Mar 01, 1994 M.TOBLER [SPIDER] at 00:33 EST To Matt: Did you check your local stores for the equipment ???? If yes, let me now please, because I received some other offers... cu, SPIDER ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 18 Tue Mar 01, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 02:38 EST SPIDER - Bad news, I'm affraid. I checked both of my local dealers and neither of them have any Jaguars left in stock. I have a third place that I'll try later today. (Tuesday) I'll let you know! Matt ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 19 Tue Mar 01, 1994 M.TOBLER [SPIDER] at 11:37 EST Hi Matt, thanx for your effort, if you do not find any jaguars, i've got an offer from Honolulu, Hawai. There somebody has a few jags left in stock. It will be a little more expensive more me I think (or is it the same price to send it from Hawai to New York and send it from Illinois to New York ??? (I've got an other offer from Illinois)) Well, cu, SPIDER ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 20 Tue Mar 01, 1994 R.QUEZADA [Rob] at 22:23 EST If you still need a Jaguar, the Nobody Beats the Wiz in Eatontown,NJ has about 3 shelves full of Jaguars. I live about 10 miles from it. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 21 Wed Mar 02, 1994 M.TOBLER [SPIDER] at 01:07 EST Hi Rob, I already ordered one jag for me yesterday, but I will need a second, 'cause a friend of mine in Switzerland needs one, too. Well, how much would it cost you, to get one jag with Cybermorph and 1 controller, and send it to my other friend in Keene,NY ??? (COD) cu, SPIDER ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 22 Wed Mar 02, 1994 R.QUEZADA [Rob] at 18:11 EST They have it here for $239.99 (w/coupon <--If I can find it) +6% tax and shipping. I don't know how much UPS charges for shipping, but the total cost should be under $275. If you want me to send it out, I'll send it out COD and e-mail the cost to you that day so your friend will know how much to pay. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 23 Wed Mar 02, 1994 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 23:26 EST E.BAIZ Go to Radio Shack and buy a cover. You can get a plastic case that is used to cover printer cables. It is called a "hood." You will need to take a hacsaw to it and cut some slots for everything to fit nicely though. Once you are happy with it, just take some hot melt glu and spooge it into the whole assembly. I did this and it is quite sturdy. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 24 Thu Mar 03, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 00:25 EST SPIDER, Glad you found another source, as my third source was of no help either! Matt ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 25 Fri Mar 04, 1994 S.WINICK at 06:29 EST Spider, >> Well I contacted Sheldon Winick, but unfortunately he has no >> jags on stock and he is can not guarantue when the next shipment >> arrives. We did receive a shipment of Jaguars last week, all of which were committed to pre-orders. We just received word yesterday afternoon that we'll have another case of Jaguars coming in next week. As of this moment, we have no pre-orders for them so all are available. Oh, yes... there are six systems in a case. ;-] Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 26 Fri Mar 04, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 07:56 EST Ahhh... a six pack of Jags. Perfect for those NASCAR races. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 29 Fri Mar 04, 1994 J.NESS [Jim] at 18:35 EST Sheldon - From your viewpoint, is the backlog beginning to ease, or is Atari still weeks behind in building Jaguars? I mean, this is the time of the National Rollout, right? I can't find any Jaguars in Chicago... -JN ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 30 Sat Mar 05, 1994 R.MCNEILL at 00:08 EST Fao Schwarz in NYC has Jags and games and can send them anywhere. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 31 Sat Mar 05, 1994 S.WINICK at 07:43 EST Jim, I can't answer regarding Atari's official 'National Rollout' of the Jaguar, but it appears that most of the national chains that are carrying the Jaguar are already dispersing the systems among their many stores. Any Atari dealer carrying the Jaguar can also ship a Jaguar anywhere in the country, and I can assure you that your favorite Atari dealer can certainly use the business a lot more than those major national chain stores. The backlog will continue to ease as the Jaguars continue to roll through the distribution chain. Keep in mind that most demand currently is coming from the existing loyal user base as national advertising has been limited. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 32 Sat Mar 05, 1994 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] at 10:01 EST Sheldon: Can you read off the serial numbers of any of the batch of Jaguars you just received in? Thanx. __________________ \hunderbird P.S. Anyone see the Jaguar on "Computer Chronicles"? I thought they spent way too much time on the Sega and 3DO, but they gave "Project Reality?" the proper brush-off! I went: "While Nintendo and SGI were _talking_ about a 64 bit game platform, old timer Atari was _shipping_ it's new 64 bit Jaguar game system. It would be sweet irony for Atari, which founded the videogame business and then lost it, to come out on top in the next battle for the videogame consumer." They had some footage of AvP, but the voice-over drowned out all the sound effects, so I can't comment on them. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 33 Sat Mar 05, 1994 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 11:44 EST Was Bob Brodie hinting last night that AvP will replace Cybermorph as the Jag's pack-in game? If so that will be a very smart move on Atari's part and should sell a ton of systems. (If they only had a ton of systems to sell!) ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 34 Sat Mar 05, 1994 R.GRIDLEY [Rick G] at 16:35 EST Well from what I seen of AvP on Computer Chronicles I can tell one thing. It sure scrolls fast! ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 35 Sat Mar 05, 1994 L.FULGENZI [Chas] at 18:40 EST Yup, I've got Zach's winter CES tape and Avp looks like it lives up to *all* the hype we've heard about it! -Chas ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 36 Sun Mar 06, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 04:48 EST FAIRWEATHER - (re: replacing CYBERMORPH w/ ALIEN VS PREDATOR as the pack-in game) Bob said it was being considered. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 37 Sun Mar 06, 1994 G.DULLECK at 17:19 EST After listening for 1hr 45min. to "On Computers", my local station cut to the Giants pre game show, just before the Jaguar segment. I'm a baseball fan but needless to say I was pissed. I hope someone will give a synopsis of what occured on the show. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 38 Sun Mar 06, 1994 M.WARNER8 [MARK] at 18:48 EST My station did the same thing although they waited for two hours and then cut to a basketball game. I found another station in the foothills and hear the whole thing. I thought it went very well and the host, Leo Laport loved the Jaguar. Bill R said that if everything goes as planned Tempest 2000 will start shipping this week but is sounded like AvP would ship in May. He also stated that they had 85 developers signed and over a 100 developer units out. There are 31 titles promised by developers by Christmas and anoter 20+ by Atari also by that date. They were playing a number of games including Tempest, AvP, Doom, Castle Wolfenstein 3D, Club Drive, Cybermorph, and one or two others. All in all I thought it was a very good show, they even talked about the Falcon. Bill said they were planning on showing the CD unit running in April at a CES type of show going on over there. Mark W. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 39 Sun Mar 06, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 20:14 EST G.DULLECK, OOOOOOH.... Wrath of Darlah word in there!!!! --Kevin ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 40 Sun Mar 06, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 23:59 EST Kevin, I had to look at your post twice... I thought you where suggesting a new game.:-) Wrath of Darlah sounds pretty cool! ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 41 Mon Mar 07, 1994 G.GEORGE3 [Fruitman] at 00:02 EST I saw the Computer Chronicles. I wasn't too happy about how long Atari got, but at least it got SOMETHING. The only Atari news I EVER heard on that show was when Atari sold one of their overseas plants. THey seemed happy about that. You know, I just had a brilliant idea last night (It's a new experience for me...) What about a NEW title for the Jaguar carts? Picture this... The Atari logo appear above the top. A 2600 fades in with the steel letters (numbers) "2600" down below it. Slowly, it morphs into a Picture of the Jaguar and the "2600" morphs into "Jaguar." But the "R" isn't finished. The claw of a jaguar reaches out and scratches the "R" to complete it. You hear the jaguar screech (I can't describe the sound, but kinda like the Ford/Lincoln/Mercury ads of the cat's screech.) Then it fades out into the title screen of the game....Pretty killer huh? Fruittttttttyyyyy ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 42 Mon Mar 07, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 00:36 EST Well, unfortunately for some of those who tried to listen to "On Computers" this weekend to hear them talk about the Jaguar, they didn't talk about the Jaguar until the 3rd hour of the program and, in quite a few markets, local radio stations only carry the first 2 hours of the program. So for those where this is the case, only the last 5-10 minutes of the second hour had some Jaguar talk. This is what happened in MY case (except that also the schedule that Bob posted was incorrect -- his list said 5pm-7pm when it was actually aired at 7pm-9pm). Anyway, for those of you who didn't hear ANY of it, Bill Rehbock was on the program and (at least during the first 5-10 minutes of his appearance) mentioned that WOLFENSTEIN 3D for the Jaguar will be released in 8-12 weeks (by Imagineer, I suppose -- they were playing a beta version of it during the show) and that he expects the 'JagCD' to ship by around August. He mentioned Readysoft, Inc. doing DRAGON'S LAIR, DRAGON'S LAIR II, and SPACE ACE for the 'JagCD' and said the CD peripheral would probably be shown in April at a European trade show (April 11th was the date, I believe). For those who heard the WHOLE show, could you enlighted the rest of us as to what happened during the last hour? ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 43 Mon Mar 07, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 03:19 EST M.WARNER8 - 50 games by Xmas wouldn't be bad. I liked hearing them play WOLFENSTEIN 3D (sounded pretty good for mono AM -- live stereo should be quite good!). Hearing the gunfire and sounds of guys getting shot (and the hosts' reactions to it!) was entertaining. And, of course, Bill Rehbock was quick to point out that it wasn't the 'pansy version' like the SNES has (i.e. it has ALL the original German sounds and images)! The hosts seemed quite impressed with it, and it was good to hear the woman from Electronic Entertainment mention that she can't wait for the 'JagCD' to be released so that it can be covered in that magazine (since they only cover CD-based game systems). ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 44 Mon Mar 07, 1994 S.LEGRAND [Oppressor] at 04:10 EST It's nice to hear they're releasing Wolf3D! That's a really fun game. It'll also be nice for someone to finally establish that video games ARE for adults too. It all seems a lot like Michael Moriarty's fight with Janet Reno over television violence: Most videogame producers right now don't agree with any of the BS that came from Congress but few have the guts to tell them to take a hike by releasing a violent game in the wake of being told they are the real cause of society's woes... Scott ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 45 Mon Mar 07, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 07:56 EST Hmm... looks like America is reaching the "Decline of the Roman Empire" stages. And it isn't the fault of video games. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 46 Mon Mar 07, 1994 J.THORNHILL [JAGUARJIM] at 14:55 EST I would like to ask everyone here to please keep us posted if you happen to find a place carrying the Atari S-Video cable so that we can order from them by mail. Atari has said that they were shipped to retailers but everewhere I called said that it would be at least two weeks before they *might* get them. I purchased a S-Video cable from Redmond but it doesn't work. I think it is shorted or something. I checked the pinout with the Atari .GIF and it looks like Redmond is using pins that aren't specified in the Atari .GIF so I am wondering if some of the pins are shorted out. The volume is fine but the picture is all fuzzy and distorted. -Jim ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 47 Mon Mar 07, 1994 ICDINC [Tom] at 16:43 EST Jim, Read the next AEO online. - TOM - ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 48 Mon Mar 07, 1994 AEO.MAG [!] FSU #1 [!] at 18:37 EST Jim, Thanks for thinking of the .GIF file as "official Atari" but please check it again, it is an AEO creation, and as much as people still think of AEO as "Atari's magazine," we aren't. (This isn't saying that I didn't source the information in the GIF from an unimpeachable authority on how such cables - could- be built.... :) Tom, Thanks for the plug. AEO's just about ready to go, I'm filling one of the last holes right now. ;) Upload should occur tonight. --Travis ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 49 Mon Mar 07, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 19:13 EST Nyaa... I was referring to a coupla posts I made with the same word which got yanked. :) If you didn't see them before being yanked, you didn't realize it. If I reposted the same message but censored, it would be a cold day in ... --Kevin ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 50 Mon Mar 07, 1994 J.BATTEY1 [J. L. Battey] at 19:56 EST >Atari-ST RoundTable G.DULLECK, >After listening for 1hr 45min. to "On Computers", my local station cut to the >Giants pre game show, just before the Jaguar segment. KGBS in Dallas didn't run the show at all. They substituted three hours of "the best of" the previous week's call-in shows! I've been too angry to call & ask them why. John L. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 51 Mon Mar 07, 1994 K.STEVENS1 [Capt. Marvel] at 20:29 EST Mr Sarcastic, Bob never said it was being considered. He said that they may change the pack in when AvP comes out. There is implication here that it will be AvP, but that is all. Mar-Vel (I got to get back to life soon so I can straighten out that son of mine, what does he think his Legacy is anyway?) ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 56 Tue Mar 08, 1994 J.THORNHILL [JAGUARJIM] at 11:50 EST Tom, I sent my S-Video cable back to Redmond for repair. BTW, I notice that ICD is a Jaguar 3rd party...what types of things do you all have planned? I am not aware of you all ever doing any games. Travis, Sorry for the confusion and thanks for the correction! -Jim ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 57 Tue Mar 08, 1994 AEO.MAG [!] FSU #1 [!] at 15:41 EST Jim, ICD will be marketing "Cat Box" - an audio/video and communication expansion box for Jaguar. I'll let Tom provide the details, but it sounds neat to me! And, it's considered proper to contract "you all" into y'all. (Unless you are an android in Starfleet.) :) --Travis ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 58 Tue Mar 08, 1994 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 15:46 EST Kevin, Oppressor, I've moved you messages to topic 11, Vidiogame Violence, as it seemed the most appropriate. Thanks. Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 59 Tue Mar 08, 1994 ICDINC [Tom] at 18:50 EST Jim, What Travis said. There is a press release buried somewhere in the 61 pages of Atari Explorer Online which was just released. :-) (Thanks Travis... I don't know how you can organize it all and remain sane.) I will post the press release somewhere in this Cat in the next few days. - TOM - ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 60 Tue Mar 08, 1994 AEO.MAG [!] FSU #1 [!] at 19:22 EST Tom, Who said I was? (Sane.) :) --Raving in Florida ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 61 Tue Mar 08, 1994 KEBAUM [bobo] at 22:33 EST For those interested, I was recently at the American Museum of the Moving Image in Astoria, New York.(718)784-0077 They have a temporary exhibit called "Hot Circuits,A Video Arcade". It includes famous arcade video games such as Pong, Computer Space, Asteroids, Pac Man etc., as well as "cutting-edge home electronic games". These included: SegaCD, 3D0 & Jaguar. The Jaguar was hooked up to a 27"+ monitor with stereo speakers and a giant projection screen. It had Cybermorph available for play. The 3D0 was hooked up to a 27"+ monitor and had a seat that vibrated with the bass tones. It had Total Eclipse playing. The SegaCD had some SonicCD thing which I wasn't into but every young kid was. Anyway, it was a good place to compare 3d0 to the JAG, since they had similar games. Overall, the 3d0 had more involved graphics with their texture mapping, the gameplay however was like crash n' burn in that you were constantly going forward. Made me wonder if all CD games are going to be this way. This would be very convienent, since the game could always be preloading the next level to minimize slowdown due to drive access. I found this annoying after playing Cybermorph for so long. A Cso, the in game CD music was annoyingly repetitive and took away from the game. And what are those buttons doing on top of the controller pad. They're pretty awkward to use. I think that if Cybermorph had some texture mapping it would be the clear cut winner. Even without it, I think it plays alot better. Ken /s ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 62 Tue Mar 08, 1994 J.THORNHILL [JAGUARJIM] at 23:12 EST Tom & Travis, I got to admit, I don't have the foggiest idea what the "Cat Box" will do even though y'all kind of explained it. -Jim ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 63 Tue Mar 08, 1994 B.AEIN [B Man] at 23:16 EST BOB, Did you send confermation mail to people that ordered Temp 2000? I ordered T2, but no return Email. Thanks Bman ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 64 Tue Mar 08, 1994 CYBERMAN at 23:24 EST Fruitman: Interesting idea for an intro, but I doubt Atari would want to associate the Jaguar with the 2600 like that. *Geoff!* ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 65 Tue Mar 08, 1994 D.RENNER2 [HONDA] at 23:48 EST All-in-One Cable for Atari Jaguar Game Machine Recently, while I was looking for a Composite cable for my newly purchased Jaguar, I contacted my local Atari dealer, Don Bahr, at Compuseller West in St. Charles, Il. and found out Don was developing a multiple cable which will have all of the following capabilities: 1) Composite cable (left/right audio + video) 2) S-Video connector 3) Separate Chroma/Luminence Composite 4) RGB cable for use on ST Color Monitors According to Don, This Jaguar cable will allow one to use the Jag on virtually any setup, and consists of a circuit board with a total of (5) RCA jacks (three video, two audio) which plugs into the slot on the back of the Jag. Don said he has even had this cable hooked up to three different types of monitors running simultaneously! Circuit boards are currently being completed and should be available in 10 to 14 days. The price will be around $49.00 retail, and based on individual Jag cables running in cost around $25.00 each, this sounds like a good alternative to anyone who may wish to have the capabilities this cable will afford. If interested, you can contact Don Bahr at (708) 513-5220 at Compuseller West or Mark at Mars Merchandising at (708) 627-7462 ... Compuseller West 220-1/2 West Main St., St. Charles, Il., 60174 Dennis Renner (D.RENNER2) 3/8/94 ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 66 Tue Mar 08, 1994 K.DRAKE [Sir Fransis] at 23:53 EST AEO.MAG, ICD should consider a promotion with Spumco(TM) wherby every "Cat Box" sold comes with a free bag of Gritty Kitty(TM). :) Still Sailing, Sir Fransis because if it doesn't say "Gritty Kitty(TM)," it stinks. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 67 Wed Mar 09, 1994 MTN.MAN [pablo] at 00:31 EST i was a' thinking about A vs P for the jag and all the hype it is getting- everything relating to how good it looks and how great it sounds. i'm caught up in it; i have the game on reserve. but let's hope the game play/story itself is good. no matter how pretty it looks, if it's a crummy storyline then it may be all for naught. i for one am hoping for an incredible and involving game that happens to look and sound incredible as well! gee, do ya think we really are reaching the end of civilization as we know it? mm, good thing i've decided not to have kids! ~~barak ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 68 Wed Mar 09, 1994 M.WARNER8 [MARK] at 08:49 EST ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ For those of you in the Northern California area dont' forget this weekend is the 2nd annual SAC Expo in Sacramento, CA. Atari will be there with the Jaguar/Lynx/Falcon. They will be showing Tempest, AvP, and other Jaguar titles so if you have not had a chance to see these titles before come to the show. Hours: Saturday 10-5 Sunday 10-6. Check out the Show BB (Cat 11 I think) for more information and directions to the show. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 69 Wed Mar 09, 1994 BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp] at 18:17 EST Bman, I'm swamped with the orders. Will try to get the responses out soon. regards, Bob ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 70 Wed Mar 09, 1994 D.ASHTON1 [Stargazer ] at 20:04 EST Bob, Do you have any idea on when Tempest 2000 will be shipped to those who ordered. Thanks. Also... Is Club Drive Still due this month (March)? ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 71 Wed Mar 09, 1994 G.GEORGE3 [Fruitman] at 22:19 EST I don't see why Atari would want to disasscociate themselves with the 2600! Next to the NES it was the most popular video game on the planet! Besides, it may stir up some fond memories that the older players have. Also it could cause the kids to want to learn more about Atari's history... Fruitman....... P.S. I was thinking about Capcom yesterday and thought it might be a good idea if we started a letter writing campaign...To have them write for the Jaguar of course. Tell all your friends! Capcom's address is: Capcom USA 3303 Scott Blvd. Santa Clara, CA 95054 We'll get them signed on yet! I plan on sending them about 50 letters... RE: Fruitman! ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 72 Thu Mar 10, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 05:34 EST D.ASHTON1 - Other than the 'lucky 10' who are suppose to have their TEMPEST 2000 games shipped this week, the others will get theirs when TEMPEST 2000 officially ships (maybe later, since AEO reported "4-6 weeks"!). TEMPEST 2000 should be shipped at the end of March, but people who ordered through Atari may have to wait a week or two later (to give time for Atari to receive them and process them). ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 73 Thu Mar 10, 1994 BOOJIBOY [BOOJIBOY] at 23:22 EST Bob! Great work! I e-mailed my order Sunday night, and Tempest 2000 arrived at my office today by UPS blue label! Talk about service! I have only played the game a few minutes and I believe Atari has a real winner! Fantastic game play and a kick ..s sound track makes this game one destined for high ratings in all the game mags. Consider this game as the pack in. BoojiBoy ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 74 Thu Mar 10, 1994 BOOJIBOY [BOOJIBOY] at 23:36 EST I must be one of the "Lucky 10" because I received my Tempest 2000 today via UPS blue label. The only way I can describe this game is AWESOME!!! Atari has done everything right with this cart. A kickin' musical soundtrack, digitized voices, outstanding gameplay that keeps you coming back for more! Although the graphics, so far as I can see, don't push the 64bit power of the Jaguar, the game itself is lightyears ahead of the original coin op. This is the game that the electronic stores should immediately be demoing, ideally with a big screen tv and a high powered speaker system. People will be lined up to play this baby. Right on Atari!!! ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 75 Fri Mar 11, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 00:15 EST I got my Tempest 2000 today!! I'll comment in the proper topic... ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 76 Fri Mar 11, 1994 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 00:29 EST Lucky you Boojiboy. I also ordered my Tempest on Sunday, but I have no idea if I'm one of the "lucky 10" who'll get early delivery like you did. How about a more detailed description of the game? Other than the screen shots available here on GEnie, I have no idea what this game is like. I've never played the arcade version. Would you say that this is the first of the "2nd Generation" Jag games that finally begin to test the Jags envelope? Or is it another game like Dino-Dudes or Raiden that might have been done almost as well on a 16 or 32 bit system? ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 77 Fri Mar 11, 1994 COCO-SYSOP at 04:30 EST Hmmm...with todays' technology, why not put EVERY 2600 game ever made on one Jag cart? Yeah. That sounds like a winner! (Or at least the games Atari owns the rights to...) Allen Huffman @ Tandy/TRS-80 RT ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 78 Fri Mar 11, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 05:59 EST NOTE: THIS MESSAGE MAY BE RE-BROADCAST AT READER'S DISCRETION. (text file created 03/08/94 by Donald A. Thomas, Jr. @ Atari Corporation) I am pleased to report that Atari Corporation has begun accepting preorders for Tempest 2000. This award winning Jaguar game cartridge features four mindblowing versions of Tempest on one cart. Features include classic variations of the original Tempest PLUS three enhanced variations including Tempest Dual (for two players). To help celebrate the release of this product, ten copies of Tempest 2000 have been flown in advance. These have been sent this afternoon (3/8/94) by means of U.P.S. to ten qualified preorder customers. Congratulations to the following ten "Jaguardians": P. Blagay of La Mesa, CA R. Cupples of Ames, IA T. Funke-Bilu of Claremont, CA G.A. Glenn of San Diego, CA D. Glowacki of Greencastle, IN K.M. Lee of Corpus Christi, TX J.T. Millar of Jeffersonville, PA R.J. Sherman, Jr. of Louisville, KY (1 of 2 ordered) T. Steimle of Cleveland, OH J. Van Valer of Menlo Park, CA We, at Atari, thank everyone who has placed a pre-order. PLEASE tell your friends that they will be able to find Tempest 2000 within a couple of weeks at their local store! For those who are interested... all the orders collected by a pre-determined time were printed and alphabetized. Duplicates were removed. Mike Fulton wrote a quick program in C that provided a list of random numbers from -10 to 10 over the total number of orders. (I broadened the range to make certain there was no preference or abandonment of the first and last number). We used the list of random numbers to represent positions in our alphabetized stack. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 79 Fri Mar 11, 1994 MIKE-FULTON at 15:16 EST Imagineer is the licensee for the SNES version of Castle Wolfenstein. The Jaguar version is being done by ID Software and will probably be an Atari release, unless something changes between now and then. Mike ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 80 Fri Mar 11, 1994 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] at 19:20 EST Could the folx who are hanging around here that work for Atari give themselves handles that let everyone know that they're Atari people? I think it would help out. __________________ \hunderbird ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 81 Sat Mar 12, 1994 BOOJIBOY [BOOJIBOY] at 00:04 EST FAIRWEATHER: I almost feel like I won something. Except it still cost me money. But to be one of the 1st ten people in the world to get a production cart of Tempest 2000 is spectacular. The pictures that have been shown in print in the game mags does not do this game justice. It is beyond my expectations. These are my thought, having only had the game for a day, with not too much time to play it: 1. First of all, this game would make money in the arcades. I believe if released first in the arcades, this would have been a major quarter eater. It is that good! 2. The graphics of the playing field, i.e. the grid and the shooter are pretty much the same as in the arcade version. That part of the game does not come close to pushing the 64bit envelope. However, what sets it apart is the additional graphics that go on at the same time. For instance, bonus points that are earned, or one ups shoot out at you and explode across the screen, colors dazzle the eyes. It is really hard to explain. Also, unlike the arcade version, the grid is not stationary, unless you want it to be. It actually moves up and down to follow the movement of your shooter. It can be quite dizzying, but I really like the effect. In the 2000 mode, you get additional color bands within the grids, and the "creatures" that march toward you are more varied. 3. The soundtrack truly adds excitement to the game. Amazingly clear digitized voices that speak announcing power-ups, bonuses, etc. And the music is just perfect, adding to the frenzy. It really kicks. You must play this game with the stereo blasting! Yahoo! 4. The control is pretty solid too, although I would have preferred a 360 degree dial control. However, the joypad works fine, once you get used to it. My favorite mode right now is Tempest Plus using an Android partner [looks like a 3-D box] to shoot with me. It extends the length of the game quite a bit, i.e. you don't die as quickly. The great part of this game is it is truly a G-rated game. The entire family would love this game whereas the also long awaited AvP would, no doubt, have a lot of violence and blood. I will try to report back in the next day or so any additional thoughts. BOOJIBOY ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 82 Sat Mar 12, 1994 KC-IN-2000 [Jim S] at 03:10 EST Sigh. I spotted the ad for the Tempest 2000 offer about 1 minute before the deadline and didn't have a Jag in hand yet and also had no idea when I'd get one. So of course I didn't order the game. Two days later I found a Jag at a local Babbage's. Sheesh. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 83 Sat Mar 12, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 03:37 EST COCO-SYSOP - In some middle east countries, there are 2600s sold with ONE cartridge that has 256 games on it (with 8 2-position switches on it to choose which game you want)! While illegal, I'd LOVE to have one of those (at this point in time, who'd really care? )! ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 84 Sat Mar 12, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 05:15 EST MIKE-FULTON - So they're releasing WOLFENSTEIN 3D for the Jaguar and then DOOM a month or two later (since Bill Rehbock said last weekend that WOLFENSTEIN 3D would be out it "8 to 12 weeks")??? ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 85 Sun Mar 13, 1994 J.THORNHILL [JAGUARJIM] at 09:32 EST Steve, There is apparently going to be two Doom versions released for the Jaguar this year. Jay Wilbur said in the April Electronic Games that the first Doom will be released this summer and then a sequel called, "DOOM: Hell on Earth" will be released for the Jaguar around Christmas time. -Jaguar Jim ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 86 Sun Mar 13, 1994 W.FAANES [Bill] at 13:56 EST LONG POST WARNING! What a day I had yesterday! I went to the Sacramento Atari Expo and had a blast. There were some neat things to look at (Gemulator, etc, etc) .. but the most fun I had was at Atari Corp. area. They had a Jaguar hooked to a large television with several games to play with. The games included Castle Wolfenstein 3D, DOOM, T2K, K. Ninja (hot!), Alien v Preditor, and Checkered Flag II. They also had a videotape of all the new TV spots and promos that they will be using in the new advertising campaign. Castle Wolfenstein 3D: According to the Atari development reps that were at the show the game only took _4_ days to port over from the SNES version!! (ID did the porting) . The game was _fully_ playable with the mazes having an 'automaping' feature which I haven't seen on any other version of C.W. 3D! The game had some of the graphics already improved for the Jaguar version. If one moved close to a wall, they could see the SNES graphics on one part and the enhanced graphics on the other. The Jaguar version will put the SNES to _shame_.. heh. DOOM: I was surprised to see this one at the show. The frame rate was pretty slow, but that is what one expects on an early version of a game. The colors were very good and many of the enemies were fully functional... They tried to kill me! It looks similar to the PC version, but it is much too early to do comparisons on it yet. The Atari guys said they are providing support to ID with the comlynx option.. . Let's keep our fingers crossed! Kansumi Ninja: Everyone is talking about A v P, but this one deserves some .... a lot of attention! Kudos go to Ted Tahquechi for really pushing this one along. It has improved considerably since WCES. It still had the 'dummy' characters but the game play and graphics are fantastic. When the digitized characters are made, this game _will_ be a strong MK (arcade version) contender. The sound effects were great (digitized), and the action even better. The two fatality blows are back break and head crush ... Mr Patten (Atari) seem to get me on that one all the time.. :) We tried the back break, but I didn't let him get me... yeah right.. an eight year old was spilling my blood _all_ over the screen.. heh. I will buy this game the _second_ it hits the shelf! Alien vs Preditor: The graphics (ceiling lights, etc) have been improved but most of the work done has been in expanding the mazes (hallways, floors, etc.). This is a game that Atari uses to show off the speed of the Jaguar. Because it is _fast_! Speed is the Alien's best defense. I also asked whether the game would have a multi-player option (Comlynx). And I really didn't get an answer, but the impression I got was that if adding that option really held up the production and release of the game, it would not be included in the cartridge version. Checkered Flag II: This game has improved somewhat in game play, but it still has some work left to do on it. (Other cars being added, etc) The frame rate was still quite slow... Let's hope they keep working on this one. Tempest 2000: On a 27" television with two loudspeakers in a large room.. FANTASTIC! This one is addictive indeed! No comment on the CD audio release was all I got out of the Atari rep. But this one is a winner! Electronic Gaming Monthly (EGM) in its April issue has Tempest 2000 as the game of the month! Whoa! Need I say more? After I spent a few hours playing these games, all I can say is get ready you gamers out there ... . because you ain't seen nothing yet!! Bill Faanes ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 87 Sun Mar 13, 1994 G.GEORGE3 [Fruitman] at 22:18 EST Ok. This has absolutely nothing to do with the Jaguar, but I just HAVE to tell SOMEONE! On Thursday the 10th of March, I came within 5 feet of Michael Jordan... Unfortunately, there were about 1000 other people there too. But it was really cool to be able to see him in real life. The game against the Indians in Winter Haven FL was sold out so I ended up watching it from the parking lot. Earlier, I went looking for a baseball, but the whole town was sold out of baseballs too! Remarkably, Albert Belles first home run of the day landed about 2 feet away from where I was sitting. I just reached over and pulled it from underneath the fence! Anyhow. I just wanted someone to know... (Oh, I liked the AvP pics in Die Hard Game Fan... And the way they were talking about Tempest 2000, I might actually believe that EGM might like it...) Fruitman!! ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 88 Mon Mar 14, 1994 M.WARNER8 [MARK] at 09:12 EST I was also at the SAC Expo thids weekend and picked up a SVHS cable and a second controller from STeve's Software. Atari did a nice job with the cable and there is a noticeable difference bewtween it and my homemde composite cable. I must agree re: Kansumi Ninja, it is a great looking game. I had a great time at the show even though I worked most of it in the STAR booth, I did win a Jaguar cap and met a lot of great Atari owners. Mark Warner ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 89 Mon Mar 14, 1994 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 14:18 EST Wheee! Got my Jaguar today. The EB in my local mall got a shipment in and one of them landed in my grubby little hands. Now if I only had time to play it.... (G) Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 90 Tue Mar 15, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 19:06 EST [Long post warning] Having just come into possession of a hard-to-find cat, I thought I would share my day's experiences with you. Keep in mind that I could be called a "Die-hard Atarian", so this _naturally_ colors my perception of life, the universe, and everything. I and a friend were heading into Dallas, and since I had had a windfall of cash, I thought today would be an opportune time to purchase a Jaguar. Knowing that getting a cat is not the easiest thing in the world to do, I called Babbages and asked if they had one in stock. "Yes, I think we have one in stock." "Well, can you make sure it's _actually_there_? I don't want to drive all the way from Waco unless it's really there." (Okay, I exaggerated a bit; it's not really as far as Waco, but it _is_ an hour's drive.) "Hold on a moment please... okay, I can't give you any assurance other than the fact that it's in my hands right now. I'll put it behind the counter and hold it for you." Nice guy, eh? We went up to Dallas, and headed straight for Babbages. (Hey, our other business can wait... priorities, y'know. ;-) While in Babbages, some guy overheard me asking for the Jaguar, and snorted something like "I'm waiting for Nintendo." So I looked at him and said, "Yeah, like you've been waiting for the Nintendo CD?" He was taken aback by this, just a bit, as he's probably never had anyone argue with him on this point. But, quick on his feet, he said "Yeah, but Atari doesn't exactly have a stellar reputation _either_." Of course, this is one of the sad facts of life about Atari; in the past, they _have_ made some colossal goofs. But not willing to let this guy have the last word (okay, it was infantile, but I was enjoying myself), I shot back "Ah yes, but at least the _Jaguar_ is here. It's real. Where's your mythical Project Reality?" So he mumbles something almost indecipherable about how anything from Silicon Graphics will beat anything Atari can do. So as a parting comment (before taking my Jaguar and extra controller out of the store), I said "...and when has Silicon Graphics ever produced anything within the price range of mere mortals?" Okay, so I had my fun. It wasn't until late last night that I finally made it home with the Jag. Nice box. It even seems to be reasonably well-packaged. This may even sound silly, but the tone of the package is not the same as that of their computers. Their computers, as you unpack them, gave me the feeling of "inexpensively serious". The Jaguar, as I unpacked it, felt like "expensive fun". These are just impressions, but every little bit helps. It turns out my Jag has the auto-switching RF connector; that and a note that says "enjoy your auto-switching connector, and ignore the bit in the manual about manual switching". I also lucked out with the controllers--both have 6' cables on them; now I can set the Jag next to the TV and sit at a respectable distance and play. Well, I was dying to turn this sucker on and actually _see_ it. I've seen the pictures, heard the descriptions, but I wanted to experience it for myself. So I hooked it up to a decent TV and turned it on. The growl, the logo, the spinning cube. Good. I would have like a little more motion on that cube, but I guess I've been spoiled by all those fancy European demos. Considering it's just the _boot_ screen, that's moderately impressive. Then the Cybermorph title screen shows up and I started playing. The first thing I noticed was that I didn't like the default configuration of the buttons. Hey, no problem, I changed it and found one I liked better. I'm not complaining about the default; on _other_ machines you don't even have an option! Cybermorph is a cool game; playing the planets in sequence, I've only made it past Kapitol once. (No, I haven't even finished the first sector yet!) The T- Griffon's control takes a little getting used to--despite all the exclamations here about how _responsive_ it is, I hadn't realized just _how_ responsive it is. I'm still learning to fly the darn thing; I got so sick of Skylar telling me things like "Avoid the ground" and "Where did _you_ learn to fly?" that I turned her voice down quite a bit. (I like the fact that I can do that, too!) I only played for three hours before calling it a night; I'm going to have to ration my Jag time or I'll never get anything done. So what do I think of my Jag? I wish I had more games for it. Babbages was all out; I cleaned out their last Jaguar and controller, and they'd already been picked clean of the games. As a matter of fact, I had the salesman call all the other Babbages in Dallas, looking for games. _Nobody_ had them. But it will be a while before I finish Cybermorph. I remember the first games available for the Atari 2600; I also remember the the games available for it later--some of them made me stop and think, "They did THAT on a 2600?" This same pattern has held true for NES, Genesis, SNES... everything. It will hold true for the Jaguar. A year from now we'll look at Cybermorph and wonder how we liked it. (We'll look at the SNES and burst into fits of uncontrollable laughter.) My friend bought his granddaughter a Genesis for Christmas. His granddaughter was with us when I plugged the Jag in (spring break, y'know) and her eyes nearly popped out when she saw what the Jaguar was doing. Saving scores, button setup, and all that stuff particularly impressed her. (She's 8.) I'm afraid I spoiled her for anything else, and I'll probably never hear the end of it now. ;-) ~dmj ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 91 Tue Mar 15, 1994 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] at 19:31 EST DMJ: That was an Excellent Story! Welcome aboard! The only thing I can recommend is that the next time you tell it, you give the Nintendo guy a case of acute acne and a "I grok Spock" T-Shirt. Maybe you could change it so that when leaving, you yelled "Project Reality Bites!" causing him to knock over a Nintendo Kiosk. Other than that, it was _perfect_. ____________________ \hunderbird ;-) ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 92 Tue Mar 15, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 23:21 EST DMJ, Welcome to the club! You are now entitled to hang out in M806 and flame away at 3doze and Porsche 914 owners. :) When I bought my Jag from Sheldon on Christmas eve, my younger bro & I hurried all 100 miles back home to kick some CM butt! :) Needless to say, I got very little programming done at mom's house with the Jag on 24hrs a day (trade off with my brother). Sheesh, we'd play one single iteration of the game all steenkin' day. :) I want Tempest 2000, AvP, etc now. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 93 Tue Mar 15, 1994 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 23:22 EST The European Game Magazine CVG has an excellent cover story on Alien v. Predator. Not only does it have the Alien grappling the Predator on the cover, but the story inside is terrific! It featured an interview with the developers at Rebellion Software and gave fantastic details on how they have put the game together. More detail than I have ever seen before about this game. Without recapping the whole story, all I can say is that I am drooling Alien slobber over this game now! I just can't wait. I think this game is going to be FAR greater than anyone has realized up to now. Get CVG magazine and you'll see why! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Also check out the premiere issue of Game Developers Mag for its DOOM article. Only a couple of the last paragraphs are devoted to the Jag, but the folks at ID software are very supportive of the cat. The game itself also looks to be great, but I'm afraid it may be too gory for my kids. My wife may kill me if I bring it home. :-( The mag said it should be rated R-21--no one under 21 allowed! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 94 Tue Mar 15, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 23:52 EST dmj - I'll second T-Birds comment. Thoroughly enjoyable! Thanks, Matt ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 95 Wed Mar 16, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 00:07 EST DMJ, I think your fairly accurate on the packaging. Cybermorph only gets better the more you play it! Once you get into using actually strategy it becomes a lot more involved. The fly around, shoot everything that moves method, doesn't last long.:-) ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 96 Wed Mar 16, 1994 S.LEGRAND [Oppressor] at 01:38 EST DMJ I like to run around on higher levels now and then with no special weapons and try to finsih up. I did Hellfire that way... I was proud... Scott ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 97 Wed Mar 16, 1994 BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp] at 18:45 EST Stargazer, The 10 Winners have already had their copies of Tempest 2000 delivered to them. The shipment of Tempest 2000 is expected by the 28th, and all of the orders will go out UPS Ground. Typically, UPS Ground takes 5-10 business days to deliver. Canadian orders will be shipped via US Mail. DMJ, Loved your story! Wait 'til you see Tempest!!!! regards, Bob Brodie ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 98 Wed Mar 16, 1994 C.SMITH89 [CLINT/A.P.E.] at 19:06 EST As I was going down the list of new Jaguar developers, WMS Industries caught my eye. I had a suspicion as to who it was. I was watching the Nightly Business Report and in their stock coverage they reported that Acclaim's stock had dropped a little because of a rumor that their contract with WMS Industries wouldn't be renewed. Can we all we say...Williams/Midway. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 99 Wed Mar 16, 1994 D.ASHTON1 [Stargazer ] at 20:30 EST FAIRWEATHER, DOOM.... R-21 !?! Now that sound like a game, Congress will 'love.' Are European Game Mag and Game Developers Mag on newstands? I have never seen or heard of these. Bob B.... Thanks, I'll be waiting for the end of the month. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 100 Wed Mar 16, 1994 C.SMITH89 [CLINT/A.P.E.] at 22:52 EST I spotted a copy of Game Developer magazine at a Waldenbooks I go to. As for European magazines, dealers that carry ST or Amiga stuff usually have those or if you know of a REALLY comprehensive magazine store(that's where I picked up my copy of Computer and Video Games). The CVG cover features a terrific illustration of an Alien with a chokehold on a Predator with the tag line "A new breed of game hits a new breed of system". Inside they have a page on Jag games at the CES(nothing we haven't seen). In the AvP article they show one of the models they're using and the tiles they made up which were then digitized and used for the texture-mapping on the walls. They also show a model they're digitizing into their "Legions of the Undead" game. It's a really nasty looking "Undead" guy, with most of the flesh missing from his upper-body(you can see his lungs and his rib cage). Some other tidbits: Rebellion claims that AvP matches the performance of a 486DX2 66mhz PC As the marine, you can make use of your flame-thrower in the alien egg room (like Ripley did in Aliens) Sound effects are being digitized from the films. Instead of background music, Rebellion is going to have atmospheric background sounds. If you were wondering about the Predator's Honor System, it's like this. As the Predator you can't attack unarmed foes or those who aren't a direct threat to you. If you do, you lose points. Lose too many and it's game over. The up-side is that if you're playing as the marine and you're unarmed and don't mess with a predator, he won't go after you. The last Jag goodie can be found in the 2 page review of Virtua Racing on the Genesis. In a side bar, they talk about Checkered Flag 2 and say that it's looking faster than Virtua. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 101 Wed Mar 16, 1994 G.DULLECK [Gary] at 23:56 EST It started off innocently enough with 8bit. Lately renting 16bit games for the kid's 16bit just is'nt doing it for me. I've got a 64bit jones that only a new Jaguar game can cure. I sit by the window waiting for the UPS truck with my copy of Tempest, but it doesn't come. I think I'm going to hurt someone... It's the seedier side of video games, confessions of a video game junkie, on the next Geraldo. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 102 Thu Mar 17, 1994 K.DRAKE [Sir Fransis] at 01:23 EST Does anyone know who Williams Brothers are? I seem to remember a similar sounding name during the early days of NEXTworld magazine. Any connection? Still Sailing, (towards the TEMPEST) Sir Fransis ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 103 Sat Mar 19, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 05:23 EST Personally, I think Atari's handling the Jaguar badly (though certainly not as badly as other products!). It would be nice to see Atari AT LEAST publicly explain any production/distribution problems. The news that Toshiba could only produce 20,000 Jag chipsets for the initial shipments instead of the 50,000 originally contracted ended up coming from 'other' sources rather than from Atari itself (who just changed the figure from 50,000 to 20,000 out of the blue with no explanation whatsoever!). Then IBM had some production problems, which Atari never explained. And then, of course, Atari can't supply enough Jaguars to meet demand. One thing I'd LIKE to see Atari do (as I've seen many other companies such as Apple Computer, Nabisco, and others do, when short on supply of a product) is to give out a press release EXPLAINING that demand is so high that it will take them a while to catch up and ask for consumers to wait patiently if the Jaguar isn't currently available in their area, and re-assuring everyone that production is still gearing up, etc. A press release costs almost NOTHING, afterall, so the tightwad Tramiels shouldn't find it difficult! ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 104 Sat Mar 19, 1994 C.UNDERWOOD1 [Carson] at 09:41 EST Dr. H, Amen. I'm surprised Atari hasn't offered you a job yet. Carson ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 105 Sat Mar 19, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 12:18 EST When was/is the National Rollout supposed to happen? Seems like enthusiasm, push, etc. for the Jag. from Atari has died off. Is this another hype it and let it die thing like the Falcon? ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 106 Sat Mar 19, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 13:02 EST The following is a public service announcement from JAG (Jaguar Addicts Group), a support group to help individuals and families deal with Jaguar addiction. JAGUAR ADDICTION: KNOW THE WARNING SIGNS! Do you suspect someone close to you is addicted to their Jaguar 64-Bit Interactive Multimedia System? Listed below are ten of the warning signs that can help you diagnose this paralyzing disease! - Sending the children to bed early to play Crescent Galaxy without interruption. - Shooting the dog because he attacked the UPS man. - Calling local electronics stores, looking for a Nintendo die-hard _just_ so they can brag about the Jaguar. - Inviting all the neighborhood children over to play a 64-bit system so they'll get disappointed with their 16-bit systems and harass their parents for a real machine. - Periodically wearing skins and throwing spears. - Dreaming not just in color, but _24-bit_ color. - While driving, dealing with other drivers' bad manners by muttering "If I weren't out of thunderquakers..." - Camping outside an electronics store to be certain of getting Tempest 2000 as soon as it arrives. - Bursting into fits of uncontrollable, mirthful laughter whenever somebody means Project Reality's proposed price tag, or when it will be available. - Shooting trees. If you or anyone you know suffers from any of these symptoms, they may be addicted to their Jaguar. There is only one treatment for this debilitating condition; play any Jaguar 64-bit game for thirty minutes. If that doesn't help, double the dose. ~dmj ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 107 Sat Mar 19, 1994 C.SMITH89 [CLINT/A.P.E.] at 14:00 EST I notice that people are always VERY quick to jump on Atari when something bad happens but there's a deafening silence when it come to the things they do right. 3rd Party Developers- Early on, people were doubting that Atari could get any third party support for the Jag(the Vice President of American Operations for Capcom made a comment along those lines in a magazine interview late last year). The current official list is up to 86 developers now. Have these companies signed on because the Jag has sold millions of units? No. Atari actively went to these companies and had to convince them to sign up. When Atari saw Doom, they went after ID. Doom is the hottest PC game there is right now. Will there be a Super Nintendo or 3DO version? No. I haven't heard anything about Doom for the Genesis or Sega CD. But Jag owners will be getting a version thanks to Atari. People also complained about the lack of Big Name 3rd party developers (at least early on). The fact is that Acclaim and Capcom weren't always that well known. They were no-names when they began on the NES. The point I'm making is that the big developers of today started out as unknowns. I can see breakthrough potential for companies like ATD, Rebellion, Handmade, and Llamasoft with their Jag titles. Well-known Licenses- The fact is that it's easier to sell a game that has a connection to something people know. Rather than just have sports games with a title like Jaguar Baseball, Atari went out and got the rights from Accolade, so they can have tie-ins to sports stars like Brett Hull, Charles Barkley, Jack Nicklaus. Plus they licensed their popular character Bubsy. The biggest coup though has to be the Alien Vs. Predator license. This wasn't something Atari just had laying around, they had to buy the rights from Activision(whose own games based on this license have been lackluster). If there is one Jag game that everybody knows about it's AvP. Marketing and PR- This is a favorite target of people and was just ahead of the 3rd party comments early on. Atari has gotten the Jag heavy coverage in video game magazines. But more impressive is the coverage in newspapers, radio, major magazines(like Time, Newsweek, Popular Mechanics,etc...), and TV(CBS This Morning, Today, and CNN). Despite this, people still feel the need to make snide comments. Advertising- Atari has had some very strong magazine ads for the last several months. Their TV spots haven't gone national yet but from what we've heard, the ad campaign they've used in the test markets is eye catching and memorable which bodes well for when the ads do make the jump. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 108 Sat Mar 19, 1994 AEO.MAG [!] FSU #1 [!] at 14:01 EST It's going to take a while for me to finish it, so I'm leaving a note now. I'm about to begin uploading 3 batches of GIFs of Jaguar DOOM, Alien vs Predator, and Kasumi Ninja into the libraries. There are 4 GIFs in each batch, and they look pretty cool!! (The Kasumi Ninja GIFs show the result of fatalities, I'm presuming.) These GIFs (@ 640 x 480 each) were taken by Die Hard GameFan Magazine, and provided for us... because we're nice people, I guess. :) They are, for doing this for us! The latest issue of DHGF (Volume 2, Issue 5) has lots of pics of these three games - these are 256 color samples of what you'll be able to find in the magazine. Each batch of GIFs is ZIPped, but still run from 488K to 781K in size. (Look at it this way, you can download faster than I can upload. :) It's a beautiful, sunny, warm Saturday here in Florida, but where am I? Uploading GIFs! Enjoy them when released! --Travis ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 109 Sat Mar 19, 1994 AEO.MAG [!] FSU #1 [!] at 16:58 EST I'm done! And as always, when I do an upload like this, I thank Bob Brodie and the Gods of GEnie.... ;) --Travis "The sun's still out, anyway." Guy ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 110 Sat Mar 19, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 21:22 EST dmj- Re: the ten warning signs of Jaguar addiction: ! =========== Travis - Thanks for uploading the GIF's, but did you _have_ to mention the sunny Saturday??? It was 31 degrees when I headed out to _work_ this morning!!! Matt ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 111 Sun Mar 20, 1994 M.TOBLER [SPIDER] at 04:01 EST AAaargh !!! Hey Travis, where to hell are the GIF pictures you uploaded ??? I have checked the ST RT Libraries, but there aren't any GIF pictures you mentioned... ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 112 Sun Mar 20, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 08:42 EST C.UNDERWOOD1 - I'm still waiting for them to -- it would get me to shut up! I don't know if I'd want to move to California, though. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 113 Sun Mar 20, 1994 S.WINICK at 12:14 EST Clint, >> I notice that people are always VERY quick to jump on Atari >> when something bad happens but there's a deafening silence >> when it come to the things they do right. Unfortunately, the list of things Atari has done right that you mentioned are primarily "promises" of things to come. Atari has an excellent track record of "promises" for EVERY new system they've ever produced. And EVERY new system also came with the promises that 'this time will be different'. The folks that "jump on Atari" have been around for a long time, and have YET to actually see Atari do ANYTHING different with ANY new system they ever produced. If nothing else, Atari has been extremely consistent in designing and producing, albeit in small quantities with erratic distribution, a long series of excellent products. Anyone who purchases Atari products based upon their value, quality and performance, will not be disappointed, especially if they purchase them from one of the few remaining quality Atari dealerships who can provide the quality support that a quality product deserves. Purchasing them based upon Atari's promises, however, may well leave one with a different impression. Of course, the very same can be said about most any other product and any other company in this high-tech industry. Atari is definitely not alone in the hype and broken promise department. But they are definitely unequaled in that particular marketing procedure -- at least among companies who have managed to survive as long as they have. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 114 Sun Mar 20, 1994 C.SMITH89 [CLINT/A.P.E.] at 14:49 EST Sheldon, I've owned Atari products since the late 70s so I think I have some perspective under my belt. I just think it's a little EASY to lay the blame for much that has happened in the past at Atari's feet. I own Atari 8-bit computers and enjoyed them immensely. I also watched as software companies deserted it in droves because of User piracy. Atari was the first company to hook up with LucasArts when they began programming games. LucasArts grew cold quickly when their games were already being passed around before they were even released. I own ST computers and I enjoy them(I'm using one right now). 3rd party companies ran into piracy once more and wasted no time in jumping ship (something that especially grates me because EVERY computer title I have is a legal purchased one). I don't care how much money Atari would spend on advertising, users aren't going to buy a computer that isn't well supported by software. I own several Lynxes. Atari advertised the Lynx on TV and in magazines. Problem was that they could only get a handful of third party companies (most weren't name companies) and trying to single-handledly provide games for a system while the Nintendo 3rd party machine was cranking out Gameboy titles by the dozen was a losing proposition. As for the positive things I mentioned being "promises", how so? Atari was only able to sign-up about 12 3rd party Lynx developers after it's first year. They've signed 86 for the Jag in it's first few months and they had to physically go out and convince most of these people. Signing up ID was a smart idea and people have seen Wolf-3D and Doom up and running. True, the Accolade titles aren't out but it was still a good idea to obtain those licenses and AvP especially. Atari hasn't said that they're going to have articles about the Jag in major magazines and on TV. It's already happened. I've seen the Jag ads running on a regular basis in gaming magazines I read. The bottom line is that for a system to succeed and thrive it needs 3rd party software support. Atari has gone out and convinced a large number of companies to give the Jag a chance(even if only a small percentage of them actually develop, the system will still have a solid number of titles). All the advertising in the world can't sell a software-poor system(the TurboGrafx 16 is a good example). Probably, the biggest advantage the Jag has is that companies won't have to worry about people passing around copies of their games. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 115 Sun Mar 20, 1994 AEO.MAG [!] FSU #1 [!] at 18:13 EST Spider, I'm sure they're in there, maybe the SysOps haven't made it to releasing them yet? Sorry! --Travis ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 116 Sun Mar 20, 1994 S.LEGRAND [Oppressor] at 19:04 EST Clint: If the jaguar succeeds, I expect there will be cartridge copiers by the plenty much as they exist for the SNES and Genesis. A sad but true fact... On the other hand, the piracy will be orders of magnitude below that on PCs, STs, and their ilk... Scott ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 117 Sun Mar 20, 1994 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 21:43 EST Travis, the Jaguar GIFs were released shortly after your last post :-) ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 118 Sun Mar 20, 1994 J.BATTEY1 [J. L. Battey] at 23:17 EST C.SMITH89 > I own Atari 8-bit computers and enjoyed them immensely. I also > watched as software companies deserted it in droves because of User > piracy. Atari was the first company to hook up with LucasArts when > they began programming games. LucasArts grew cold quickly when their > games were already being passed around before they were even > released. > I own ST computers and I enjoy them (I'm using one right now). 3rd > party companies ran into piracy once more and wasted no time in > jumping ship (something that especially grates me because EVERY > computer title I have is a legal purchased one). There was an article on the wires this week that said that only 5-7% of the software in use on computers in homes was legitimately acquired. They were talking about the MS/DOS world, not Atari, not MacIntosh. When I worked at Federated (I am a near fanatical advocate of Atari hardware), the _only_ reason _any_ customer _ever_ gave for prefering a DOS box was that they "knew someone" who could & would give them copies of all the software they needed. The fact remains that Atari has never supported software developers for its computers in anything approaching the fashion of other computer manufacturers. As a result, the developers looked for a diplomatic means to exit the situation. "Piracy" gave the Atari developers a conveniently anonimous scapegoat. Some of the current top ST developers have told me privately in the past that Atari hindered their efforts as much as they helped. THIS HAS CHANGED MARKEDLY FOR THE BETTER SINCE BOB BRODIE & A COUPLE OF OTHERS JOINED THE SUNNYVALE TEAM. (Better late than never?) Atari seem to be dealing with the Jag developers somewhat differently FOR THE PRESENT. Time will tell the tale. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ scepticism John L. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 119 Mon Mar 21, 1994 A.GIOVETTI [al giovetti] at 00:54 EST how many people have this game machine? ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 120 Mon Mar 21, 1994 C.SMITH89 [CLINT/A.P.E.] at 05:39 EST John, the bottom line in this business is money. The fact is if the developers had been able to make good money selling their software it wouldn't have mattered if Atari had the worst support in the world. Developers have to put up with all kinds of garbage from Nintendo but they do put up with it because of the money they can make(although companies like ID seem to have found an alternative ). Sega is no better. For example: Sega CD owners want RPGs(role playing games). Sega doesn't agree with it's players and concentrates on full-motion video games. When a 3rd party developer wants to bring over some role-playing titles from Japan, Sega gives him a hard time about it. Does this make sense? ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 121 Mon Mar 21, 1994 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 10:10 EST Two neighbor kids (8 & 6) here in Santa Barbara tell me that they saw a Jaguar commercial during the Nickolodean show "Weinerville". They REALLY liked the commercial because it was so funny. I haven't seen it myself, but from the way they described it a Jaguar eats someone? Ever since my kids got a Jaguar, our house has been a mecca for the neighborhood kids. Of course they all have SNES or Sega systems of their own (no 3D0's yet) but the Jaguar is what they love to play. I'd say their favorites are Dino-Dudes, Raiden, CG (with cheats), and Cybermorph in that order. I guess Cybermorph is last because it takes too much time for them to really get proficient at it. Just wait till they see TEMPEST 2K! ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 122 Mon Mar 21, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 18:06 EST Clint, The piracy problem wasn't really the problem and reason a lot of them left. It was the fact that the Atari community was so small that the smallest amount of piracy hurt. You have piracy on every platform. Commodore has a HUGE amount of piracy along with IBM but, you don't see developers jumping ship there. You don't have developers jumping ship on the PC. In fact, you have a lot of people going to the PC market to make money. It's the fact that there are a HUGE number of users and the amount of piracy doesn't hurt AS MUCH. Now, why is the Atari market so small? It all falls back into Atari's lap. They expected the Atari user to do their advertising for them. People are not going to buy a computer if they don't know it exist. Every expert will tell you that you have to advertise if you want to make any large amount of money. People have to know you are out there. With advertising comes the developers. Do you think that Microsoft, Nintendo, Sega, etc. would have gotten where they are if they didn't advertise? Another way to get developers is to not treat them like crap. Atari ran a lot of them off with their treatment. I don't blame them for jumping ship. Atari probably had to PAY some of the Jag. developers to develop for it. You should see what kind of developer docs the developers got for ALL that money they sent Atari. not very professional. Another one of those NO BRAINER, EL CHEAPO decisions. You also need the support of the company in order for a system to succeed. If the company doesn't believe in or push the product, how do you expect the developers to? Look what happened to the Falcon. Sure, there are people developing software/hardware for it but, there would have been a LOT more if Atari had went through with it's promise of pushing it. Show me an Atari that will build a machine, stand behind it with decent support, advertising, and all the other stuff that you would expect a decent company to do and I will show you developers doing things for it. That goes for treating your developers and users with respect, not playing them for fools, etc. Once you start developing software/hardware, you will see exactly what the rest of the developer community has gone through and continues to go through. Deverlopers to this day are treated like crap. Atari does it's own thing and the heck with everyone else. Noone at Atari has proven they know how to run a company. The Board of Directors at Commodore did the right thing. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 123 Mon Mar 21, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 19:13 EST I downloaded the Doom GIFs. Too bad a still image doesn't show you how fast these graphics are moving. In a still shot everything looks pretty blocky. I remember feeling the same way about the CyberMorph pics... and now that I have the actual game, I can see the pictures didn't convey the feeling of atmosphere you get. If this pattern holds true for Doom, AvP, and other 3D games, the Jaguar will set a new standard for "bare minimum" games. Come this Christmas, we'll be thinking CyberMorph is pretty lame... but only because of the _new_ stuff we'll be seeing. ~dmj ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 124 Mon Mar 21, 1994 G.K. [Greg] at 20:23 EST Keep in mind that the GIFs are captured by a frame grabber and reduced down to a 256 color palette. I'm sure the games themselves look much better. I was hoping that there would be more Targas, myself. :) ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 125 Mon Mar 21, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin!] at 22:23 EST Fortunately, the Jag carts can have RAM which would be more of a hassle to dupe than just copying eproms. --Kevin ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 126 Mon Mar 21, 1994 C.SMITH89 [CLINT/A.P.E.] at 22:26 EST Well, anybody can say what they want but I'm still impressed with what Atari has done on many fronts with the Jaguar. If Atari IS paying to get these developers they must have a lot more money than we knew about . ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 127 Mon Mar 21, 1994 S.FOSKETT [Lancer] at 23:01 EST Here in New England a few stores have Jags for sale... One of them, a New York chain called, strangely enough, "Nobody Beats The Wiz" often features the Jag prominently in their fliers. They say it's the future of gaming and that it's 100 times more powerful than the other consoles. They also say it's a 16-bit machine. They have repeatedly made this mistake in their fliers. Weeks in a row... Perhaps someone at Atari should look into this? The Wiz is a great place to sell 'em as long as the pitch is right! .s. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 128 Mon Mar 21, 1994 C.SMITH89 [CLINT/A.P.E.] at 23:19 EST I spotted something VERY interesting in the new EGM. Sega has a 2 page ad for their new CDX. On the left side they have a little play on personal ads. Highlighted in bold is the ad that's for the CDX. "SINGLE, VERSATILE, ATTRACTIVE, ENTERTAINER SEEKS PASSIONATE GAME PLAYER FOR NON-STOP ACTION." (pardon me while I laugh hysterically) Below it is an ad that rips a certain competitor(it shouldn't be hard to figure it out). "Concerned parent of two italian brothers seeks old-fashioned partners for her plumber sons before their careers go into the toilet. No newfangled CD technology, please." Just above it is a personal ad that's...interesting. "Lonely feline with limited range seeks mildcat companion who's content to play the same few familiar games." Why Sega, is that a swipe at the Jaguar? Feeling a little nervous are we? ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 129 Tue Mar 22, 1994 J.BATTEY1 [J. L. Battey] at 00:44 EST The point I suppose I failed to make is that progamming games, especially for a dedicated game machine, is a whole different animal than writing application or utility software that has to do real work. Game programmers can, or do for the most part, ignore such trivialities as "illegal instructions" while applications programmers have to be sure that they don't crash the machine when the program exits. They require different levels of support from the manufacturer of the environments in which they work. In 1985, Atari was used to supporting games programmers, not applications programmers. As to the power of advertising, I can attest to that. When I was helping to run the North Texas Irish Festival, it took two years to get the Board to let us spend a little money on advertising. A week's worth of 15 second spots for the Sixth Annual Festival on one channel during the evening news broadcasts more than doubled the gate over the previous year's. Without advertising, each year had seen a 10-12% increase in the gate. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 130 Tue Mar 22, 1994 AEO.MAG [!] FSU #1 [!] at 01:28 EST //// Greg, I agree, Targas would provide a far superior picture, but these pics came direct from Die Hard GameFan magazine, and may be in fact, in their current issue. Now, if they were to hand out 24-bit images, it'd be a boon to other magazines, something that they themselves could print. (Just looking at it from a magazine publisher's point of view.) As for my POV - What? Are you CRAZY? :) It several hours just to upload the GIFs. Could you imagine how long it takes to upload Targas??? :) Seriously, I wish there could have been a Targa or two myself. But I'm not going to complain about what was freely given.... //// Clint, I had heard about that Sega ad. I wonder what we will find in the ads next year? "Jilted hedgehog, crying in my beer, seeks refuge from Big Cat Attack." --Travis P.S. I hope to have AEO_0305 done with and uploaded by dawn. There are two reviews of Tempest 2000, along with new developer news, and interesting bits of Jaguar gossip. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 131 Tue Mar 22, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 02:03 EST Lancer, Does any of the Wiz employees look at the box? It says 64 bit in bright yellow letters all over it. Seems like someone half way observent would have noticed by now. DMJ, I reduced the images by half and they looked a lot better. The last Alien shots where only half that size. I assumed they doubled the size for printing or something? Your right, it won't be impressive until everythings moving, rotating scrolling and all that good stuff! I'm impressed so far, the games seem to be getting better and better. If it can pull this off from a cartridge imagine what the CD will offer! ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 132 Tue Mar 22, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 04:39 EST According to Jeff Minter, Atari's development guidelines for the Jaguar INSIST that all titles be programmed to use full overscan, so that there will be no black borders on any of them (and since PAL versions have extra vertical resolution, that's good for them too -- Jeff said most Sega MegaDrive drive games look letterboxed because of that). Also, both NTSC and PAL versions of Jaguar games CAN be played on either NTSC or PAL Jaguar systems, unlike many Genesis/MegaDrive and SNES/Super Famicom games. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 133 Tue Mar 22, 1994 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 15:11 EST Gents, the debate on Piracy and Developers really doesn't belong here. If you wish to continue it, could you please do so in Cat 18? Thanks. Lancer, yep, people have mentioned that error in the Wiz ad's before. Bob Brodie mentioned that he was going to talk to them about it. I haven't a clue why it's still there, it only looks silly on the Wiz. Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 134 Tue Mar 22, 1994 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] at 19:43 EST J.BATTEY1 [J. L. Battey] at 00:44 EST >The point I suppose I failed to make is that progamming games, >especially for a dedicated game machine, is a whole different animal >than writing application or utility software that has to do real work. >Game programmers can, or do for the most part, ignore such trivialities >as "illegal instructions" while applications programmers have to be sure >that they don't crash the machine when the program exits. >They require different levels of support from the manufacturer of >the environments in which they work. I agree that the two are entirely different animals, but I don't agree with the use of the term "real work" for applications. A game is usually called upon to do more 'work' in a shorter time period than any other type of program. An application program usually does one thing at a time, and the difference between doing it in 10 seconds and 12 seconds isn't critical. However, a simulation is doing 4 or 5 different things at once (music, graphics, logic, input/output) all in real time... all synchronzed together... is an order of magnitude greater than the typical application's 'work'. Of course, _some_ applications (MIDI for example) are also called upon to do a lot of 'work' in real-time, but in general, the typical application is never called upon to do much work. The typical simulation requires a lot more work to write than the typical application. Just some food for thought... _____________________ \hunderbird ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 135 Tue Mar 22, 1994 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 20:35 EST I see in the January 31st issue of Infoworld, there is a discussion about a jaguar 2.0 reaching the market this fall. I guess they mean next fall..... It says that the new box contains the Tom and Jerry video ASICs into one chip and replaces the 68000 with a PowerPC. What you get is a $250 home video game to which you can attach a SCSI hard disk and use it as an Oracle server. It goes on to say that they believe that Atari will screw it up. Anyone else read this?????????? ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 136 Tue Mar 22, 1994 J.BATTEY1 [J. L. Battey] at 22:13 EST Charlie, I hope you will allow to stray long enough to publicly dislpay this Mea Culpa. D.ENGEL, You are right. The term was an intentionally and unfairly snide double entendre. I apologize. It was not a barb thrown at you and I forgot that you and others might be in the line of fire. What I primarily meant was "produce monetarily valuable output". John L. ____________________ PS: If this keeps up, you might turn into \hornbird. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 137 Tue Mar 22, 1994 T.MCCOMB [=Tom=] at 23:12 EST It's old news, Darlah. It's also a bunch of hooey. Dvorak knows not of what he speaks. -Tom McComb {11:01 pm} Tuesday, March 22, 1994 ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 138 Tue Mar 22, 1994 BOOJIBOY [BOOJIBOY] at 23:45 EST I live in San Diego, but we get L.A.'s Channel 13 on cable. While watching the new Robocop TV series premiere, I saw my first Jaguar TV commercial! So they have started TV advertising in Los Angeles. I presume this must be true in the other 9 major markets. So the national roll out must be starting. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 139 Wed Mar 23, 1994 G.CHIU2 [Graham] at 04:20 EST STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] >that all titles be programmed to use full overscan, so that there will be >no black borders on any of them (and since PAL versions have extra vertical >games look letterboxed because of that). Also, both NTSC and PAL versions of >Jaguar games CAN be played on either NTSC or PAL Jaguar systems, unlike Well, that's very encouraging news. But presumably when NTSC games are played on PAL machines, there will still be a lower black border. Perhaps they should do three versions - one NTSC, one PAL, and one for those using RGB monitors ( suitable for any country)! ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 140 Wed Mar 23, 1994 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 08:26 EST Tom: I thought so but it was written in such an entertaining fashion that I had a good chuckle. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 141 Wed Mar 23, 1994 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 14:18 EST Darlah, I belive Bob pointed out that the article says 'fantasy for the future' or something along those lines. Since the cheapest price I've even seen rumored for a PPC is $240 I don't see them in a $250 unit anytime soon.... (G) Boojiboy, interesting show for Atari to place an ad on. I wish they'd put ad's on during Babylon 5 .... Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 142 Wed Mar 23, 1994 P.CURRY3 at 15:13 EST IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A JAGUAR OR ANY JAGUAR RELATED ITEM WE HAVE THEM ALL IN STOCK. HAVE YOUR LOCAL COMPUTER DEALER CONTACT US AT (800)327-0425. WE ARE A DISTRIBUTOR AND SELL TO DEALERS ONLY. PACIFIC SOFTWARE SUPPLY FAX 805-549-0549 ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 143 Wed Mar 23, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin!] at 15:32 EST What th' heck is Babylon5? Some kind of TV show? --Kevin ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 144 Wed Mar 23, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 19:51 EST Kevin, Yes, Babylon 5 is a TV show. Science-fiction. Reasonably decent, once you get past the hokey costumes. Check your local listings. Jaguar ads during B5 would certainly hit a good audience (techno-freaks ;-). ~dmj ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 145 Wed Mar 23, 1994 S.FOSKETT [Lancer] at 19:52 EST >DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 20:35 EST >I see in the January 31st issue of Infoworld, there is a discussion about a >jaguar 2.0 reaching the market this fall. I guess they mean next fall..... > >It says that the new box contains the Tom and Jerry video ASICs into one chip >and replaces the 68000 with a PowerPC. What you get is a $250 home video game >to which you can attach a SCSI hard disk and use it as an Oracle server. Heh... Yeah, and I'm sure InfoWorld also thinks that the PowerPCs Ford is using in their cars will thus be able to run Jaguar software! Sheesh... InfoWorld ranks right up there with STR in my "journalistic integrity" department! >Anyone else read this?????????? There was LOTS of talk about it on the Internet when the issue came out. Basically, everyone laughed and said InfoWorld doesn't know it's ... umm ... Info from it's World! *grin* .s. (though a PowerPC ST would be AWFULLY nice and a PPC Jag would at least shut up all the 3DOers who insist that the Jag is a 16-bit machine running a 68k as its main processor!) ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 146 Wed Mar 23, 1994 R.QUEZADA [Rob] at 20:02 EST I was wondering... I build my own RGB cable and hooked it up to my SC1 2224, but that rolling picture is very annoying. Does anyone know of any mail order place or any other place, for that matter, that sells RGB monitors with Composite Sync? ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 147 Wed Mar 23, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 21:19 EST Kevin - I agree with dmj about Babylon 5. Not a bad show at all, and the graphics are great to look at. I seem to remember a post from one of the Lexicor folks mentioning it. I wonder if they (or their software) have anything to do with those same graphics??? Check it out, you might like it. (The show, that is!) Matt ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 148 Wed Mar 23, 1994 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] at 21:56 EST Babylon 5 is the best so far of all those Syndicated shows that have flooded the airwaves (cable wires?) since Star Trek The Next Generation came out. It's good entertainment if you like Star Trek, 'cause it has a lot of ST writers working on it. Harlan Ellison is some sort of consultant, I think. Also, the graphics I believe are done on a Video Toaster, 'cause they give toaster credit in the end. Very nice effects, too. Extremely innovative perspective views too... ___________________ \hunderbird ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 149 Wed Mar 23, 1994 G.K. [Greg] at 22:31 EST The graphics for Babylon 5 are done with Lightwave 3D for the Amiga and output through a Video Toaster. They aren't really using any of the video effects features of the Toaster itself, but the software lets them do some pretty good stuff. There are two categories dedicated to Babylon 5 in the SFRT2 on page 471, where the show's creator J M Straczyinski posts regularly.. Check it out if you are interested. (Even if the graphics are done on Amigas :-). I agree that it would be a very good show for Atari to advertise on. It would be even cooler if the the Atari could make a deal with the producers to do some product placement shots on the show.. Have the Atari logo seen in the background somewhere, just like it was in BLADE RUNNER :-) ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 150 Wed Mar 23, 1994 G.GEORGE3 [Fruitman] at 23:53 EST I wonder if Atari is aware of the secret "PONG" game in the arcade Mortal Kombat 2? Maybe they should sue! Fruitman ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 151 Thu Mar 24, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin!] at 00:30 EST Matt, From what I hear from the Amigoids, those shows are done via Toasters. The Lexicor folx don't impress me much. Not a very professional bunch. Tbird, You've confirmed what my friend said. Yes, I've seen the Toaster in action. It is a nice system. I haven't seen anything quite as 'good for the job' for my Mac 660av yet... Of course, we ALL know where the Falcon stands in this area... DMJ, Oh. One of my GEnie buddies suggested that I could join the ranks of those folx doing special fx for Babylon 5, SeaQuest, etc if I did finally get around to getting an Amiga4000 and Toaster 4000 setup (like I've threatened :) ), or I could sit at home and play with it and do a BiaB6.0 Atari & Mac video. I don't have time to watch TV so... :) --Kevin ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 152 Thu Mar 24, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 01:33 EST T.MCCOMB - Did Dvorak write that Infoworld bit? I thought it was someone else??? Whatever the case, your statement still stands (for almost ANY topic!). G.CHIU2 - Yes, running NTSC carts on a PAL system will probably cause a border (and running PAL carts on an NTSC system will probably cause loss of some of the display). What I was referring to, though, was that ALL (or at least MOST) Genesis/MegaDrive and SNES/Super Famicom games are written for NTSC resolution, so that PAL/SECAM versions of the games will have a 'letterboxed' look to them. Additionally, you can't even run many NTSC Genesis games on a PAL MegaDrive or vice-versa (and ditto for SNES/Super Famicom) because the carts will refuse to run on them (kinda like some ST programs that are written to ONLY work on specific TOS versions). ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 153 Thu Mar 24, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 03:04 EST PG.MUSIC - Yes, the promise of DTV on the Falcon seems pretty dismal now (speaking of which, the Chroma 24 graphics package has apparently been cancelled due to disputes between the guys who were doing it). ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 154 Thu Mar 24, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin!] at 08:04 EST Steve-J, Was Chroma 24 a La#i##r project? Whiners. --Kevin ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 155 Thu Mar 24, 1994 K.STEVENS1 [Capt. Marvel] at 18:30 EST Darlah, that's interesting, each time I've broached the topic with Bob B. he denies that Atari is working on it. His come back is that they can't afford to produce the Jag with the PPC because of cost. I keep on trying to tell him that the PPC 603 will cost much less than 100 dollars and should help to keep the cost of the system near the price point they want. Mar-Vel ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 156 Thu Mar 24, 1994 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 18:40 EST K.STEVENS1, But how much is a 68K chip these days a few dollars? ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 157 Thu Mar 24, 1994 DOUGWILLIAMS [Doug] at 23:00 EST If Atari ran an ad during Babylon 5, I might have missed it for falling asleep. ( Sorry, I continue to watch, & the storys are getting better, but geez, it's stiff!!) ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 158 Thu Mar 24, 1994 G.GRAHAM9 [Glenn] at 23:57 EST Doug, don't you mean _Babble on (and on) 5 ?! ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 159 Fri Mar 25, 1994 AEO.MAG [?] Travis [?] at 03:57 EST Atari called me Thursday, they want everyone to know that they received a shipment of Jaguar S-Video cables, and they should be starting to fill direct orders with them, soon. Expect to see Tempest 2000 in stores soon, also! :-) --Travis ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 160 Fri Mar 25, 1994 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 08:26 EST What are the costs of the PPC these days? ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 161 Fri Mar 25, 1994 ICDINC [Tom] at 10:12 EST Rob Q., Have you tried swapping the H-Sync and V-Synch signals? - TOM - ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 162 Fri Mar 25, 1994 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 15:59 EST Darlah, the cheapest I've heard for a PPC 601 is $250/each. That was only a rumor, though, not from a confirmed source. Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 163 Fri Mar 25, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 16:21 EST Albert, >But how much is a 68K chip these days a few dollars? The last time I priced an 8 MHz 68000 it was $5 in single quantities! I assume the Jag uses a 16 MHz 68k, but it shouldn't be much more. Probably a lot less in 10,000 lots. The PPC still has a long way to come in price to make it feasable in a $250 consumer product. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 2:08 PM Mountain Time Friday, March 25, 1994 ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 164 Fri Mar 25, 1994 M.TROUPE [Helium] at 18:14 EST Al, I got one. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 165 Fri Mar 25, 1994 K.STEVENS1 [Capt. Marvel] at 18:22 EST Albert, but that isn't the point, with the consolidation of the chips in the Jag into one (which reduces price) plus the break that atari would get when buying the 603 in quantity, plus any technology or manufacture improvement that can decrease the base cost of the Jag II, I believe Atari could put out a version of the Jag at or just above the current price of the Jag (I personally wouldn't mind paying up to 300 dollars). They can tout it as a the only PowerPC game system and come even closer to a 64 bit system (the 603 has 64 bit registers though it communicates at 32 bits to the outside). The addition of the 603 would more than double the mips of the total system and would wipe the competition out. Charlie, the PPC 603 is/will go for less than 100 dollars. (Latest rumour is that it will go for around 60 dollars in quantity). It is slightly less powerful than the 601, but it requires less power. Mar-Vel ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 166 Fri Mar 25, 1994 D.DORBUCK [Zaphod] at 18:59 EST All, Well I took advantage of the Tempest 2000 special offer a few weeks ago from Bob Brodie. Atari promptly charged my VISA card on 3/9. To this date 3/25 I have not seen anything. When is Tempest gonna ship ?? Thanks Doug ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 167 Fri Mar 25, 1994 B.DANIELS [Bruce] at 20:11 EST I have to agree with TBird (Babylon 5) - Im scared --- REALY SCARED -Bruce ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 168 Fri Mar 25, 1994 AEO.MAG [?] Travis [?] at 20:24 EST Zaphod, (Nice extra head you got there. :) Tempest 2000 shipped from the factory today! (To dealers and Atari.) Atari CS says that they hope to begin filling pre-orders (yours) by next Wednesday. Lucky bugger. ;) --Travis ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 169 Fri Mar 25, 1994 D.MICHARD at 20:41 EST Hope to _begin_ filling pre-orders by next wednesday? Are you serious?? If I had known that, I would have bought it at the store!!! They never indicated when this deal was presented that we would get the what, a minimum of 4 days via UPS grnd from CA, at least 8 days after the stores do. What's so lucky about that? ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 170 Fri Mar 25, 1994 D.MICHARD at 20:52 EST I guess that's why they _immediately_ charged everyone's credit card ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 171 Fri Mar 25, 1994 G.K. [Greg] at 21:10 EST I was under the impression that it was illegal to charge a credit card before shipping. Oh well... at least the price was good. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 172 Fri Mar 25, 1994 R.QUEZADA [Rob] at 23:07 EST Tom.... I've tried next to everything to get it to stop, but it still does it. Switching the two signals didn't really do much of anything for me. I just bought an old Magnavox Professional 14" RGB monitor that works on the Jaguar, Falcon030, and on my Sega Genesis as well. I don't know why it refuses to work well on my SC1224 (controlls on the side). ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 173 Fri Mar 25, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 23:48 EST D.Michard, The deal was everyone got to pay $40 and 10 lucky people would get it early. Personally, I think it was a great deal but then I've had mine for a week and half already!:-) ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 174 Sat Mar 26, 1994 AEO.MAG [?] Travis [?] at 01:47 EST D.MICHARD, The Tempest carts shipped today (Friday) from the factory to Atari and to the distributors. Atari has to get their shipment in before they can ship them out to you. Remember, the way shipping works on Jaguar products is they are shipped from the factory to both Atari and to the distributors at the same time. There are no slow boats from China pulling up to the warehouse in Sunnyvale anymore. The factory is not set up to ship direct to individuals. Lucky? I think so. You bought your cart at 1/3 off from what you would have paid your dealer, and you are assured of getting one. What would you think if you had pre-ordered from your dealer, and your dealer had gotten in one -less- cart than he had orders? Plus your name was thrown in the pot for a chance to get one very early. The rest of the orders were promised shipment in 4-6 weeks. It was three weeks ago tonight when the offer was made. I feel Atari made a very special offer, and so far, they are keeping up their end. --Travis ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 175 Sat Mar 26, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 05:58 EST DARLAH - The PPC601 is somewhere around $250-$300 each. The upcoming PPC603 has been reported to cost as little as $40-$50 each, but that just doesn't sound right. D.DORBUCK - Atari charges credit cards as soon as orders are received so as to clear up any billing problems (refused CC charges/etc.) BEFORE the product ships. Atari wasn't even expecting to receive the games from the factory until today (Friday), at the earliest, or during the first part of next week. Atari will begin shipping them next week. D.MICHARD - You SAVED $20!!! THAT was the deal, along with the POSSIBILITY of getting it early (re: the lucky 10!). Also, not ALL stores will have it in stock next week (or even the week after, perhaps!). G.K. - Those laws cover strictly mail-order houses. Besides, it's NOT illegal for them to charge your credit card before shipping, so long as product is shipped within a certain amount of time after the credit card is charged. Atari doesn't count as a mail-order business, even though they DO offer some of their products via direct mail purchase. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 176 Sat Mar 26, 1994 RHETT [Mr.Anderson] at 13:00 EST Instead of introducing a more powerful Jaguar, Atari should cost reduce the current one so that it could better compete. --Rhett ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 177 Sat Mar 26, 1994 D.MICHARD at 15:13 EST Travis... I know th at only the 10 "winners" were shipped the cart early, but I don't remember seeing anything about 4-6 weeks. I don't believe that was offic ially announced. (at least, not in the offer announcement that I saw.) ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 178 Sat Mar 26, 1994 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] at 17:15 EST RHETT [Mr.Anderson]: >Instead of introducing a more powerful Jaguar, Atari should cost reduce >the current one so that it could better compete. There is nothing currently in the Jaguar's price range that can perform as well. They would only hurt themselves by reducing the cost at this point in time. ____________________ \hunderbird All: I recall it being clearly stated in their messages with the offer, that Atari would ship T2K when they got their shipment. Since they get theirs at the same time the distributors get theirs, it seems likely that the ones they ship may get to your house at the same time the stores get them from the distributor. I don not recall the offer making any guarantee that you would have it before the stores do, only that it would cost less! ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 179 Sat Mar 26, 1994 P.CURRY3 at 17:24 EST We will be shipping a limited number of Tempest to our dealers on Monday (3/28/94). Pete Pacific Software supply ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 180 Sat Mar 26, 1994 K.STEVENS1 [Capt. Marvel] at 18:57 EST Doug, I'm a little irritated about the Tempest offer. Bob made the offer during the last Dateline atari and right after it ended I sent the e-mail requesting the special offer. Somehow atari lost it, thus I can't get the game at the reduced price Grrrrrrr!!!. By the way, last I heard, Atari should get it in stock (in Sunnyvale) around the 28th. Mar-Vel ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 181 Sat Mar 26, 1994 P.LOUIE1 at 19:25 EST I just got back from Blockbuster Video (actually 2 of them) and both had Tempest 2000 for rent. I wonder how Blockbuster got copies to rent before the dealers. Hmm. -Phil ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 182 Sat Mar 26, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin!] at 19:28 EST I agree with Rhett. Cost reducing the Jag to get it in the stores for $149.99 would make the decision to buy one even more of a "no-brainer". :) --Kevin ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 183 Sat Mar 26, 1994 J.SCHRAM at 20:01 EST Capt. Marvel Now you have me worried. How do I know if Atari also lost my e-mail or not. I don't remember getting an acknowledgment from them and just assumed they got my mail. Do I need to check with my credit card Co. to find out if my order went through? Joe Schram ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 184 Sat Mar 26, 1994 G.K. [Greg] at 20:04 EST D.ENGEL [Thunderbird]: >>Instead of introducing a more powerful Jaguar, Atari should cost reduce >>the current one so that it could better compete. > >There is nothing currently in the Jaguar's price range that can perform as >well. They would only hurt themselves by reducing the cost at this point >in time. This may be true, but Atari can manage to reduce their cost, they can reduce the retail price without hurting their profit margin, and simply sell more Jaguars. I have no doubt that they could sell substantially many more Jags at $175 than at $250. This is, of course, once they can get the production capacity up enough to exceed current demand and market the Jaguar nationally. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 185 Sat Mar 26, 1994 C.SMITH89 [CLINT/A.P.E.] at 20:29 EST I picked up the April issue of Diehard Gamefan today. Another really good issue. They have 2 pages of AvP shots(we get to see the Alien Queen, an Alien's view of the air duct system, what happens when a marine shoots a Predator or another marine(?), and a face hugger making a move at hugging your face). They have a page of Doom shots(that look really good) and a page of Wolf-3D(looking much better than the chunky SNES version) and Kasumi Ninja(looking much better than the shots in EGM). The European news section is also terrific. Rebellion wasn't happy with their 10 to 15 fps on Checkered Flag so they're reprogramming their 3-d engine to get running in the 20+ range. Ocean is doing a Jag-Cd game based on "The Shadow" movie that's coming out. Imagitec has a 3-d shooter called Freelancer and Handmade is doing a game called Akira(?). Bullfrog is doing Jag versions of Syndicate(YES!) and Theme Park(a sim-city type game) for Ocean. DID might be doing Jag versions of TFX(flight simulator) and a 3-d game called Inferno that is supposed to outclass Cybermorph. I'm sure that Atari is probably working to get the price down on the Jaguar. It's not as imperitive right this moment as it was for 3DO to get their price down. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 186 Sat Mar 26, 1994 RHETT [Mr.Anderson] at 21:07 EST Thunderbird, But the Jaguar's price is too high to generate enough sales to support and maintain a software boom. To be mass market, it has to come down to the price range where it becomes a Christmas gift that most parents can afford for their children. If it costs too much, it doesn't matter how great it is. --Rhett ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 187 Sat Mar 26, 1994 S.FOSKETT [Lancer] at 21:34 EST T.MCCOMB: >It's old news, Darlah. It's also a bunch of hooey. Dvorak knows not of what >he speaks. Wait a second... Dvorak? JOHN C DVORAK? Did HE write that little bit of nonsense??? Yow! I LOVE his columns! .s. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 188 Sat Mar 26, 1994 C.SMITH89 [CLINT/A.P.E.] at 23:12 EST Rhett, I agree that a lower price would mean more sales but... They sold 1 million Sega CDs at a price of $230 and that was even after alot of their most anticipated titles turned out to be duds(Batman Returns, Joe Montana Football, Stellar Fire(just kidding about that one but the other 2 were let-downs)) and developers kept churning out a parade of grainy FMV games. Also, I think you're vastly underating the ability of children to "convince" their parents to buy them a big ticket item Not to mention, alot of the people who are parents now were the kids who owned 2600s way back when and probably wouldn't mind playing with junior's new toy when they're asleep or at school. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 189 Sat Mar 26, 1994 G.DULLECK [Gary] at 23:32 EST I too saw Tempest at Blockbuster (unfortunately it was already rented). Something else though I hadn't seen there before was Cybermorph in the rental section with it's own box. Perhaps it's pack-in days are numbered. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 190 Sun Mar 27, 1994 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 00:00 EST K.STEVENS1 Remeber the PowerPC is already a consildation of 5 chips used in IBM's RS-6000 unix box. I would be hard to convince IBM/Motorola/Apple to add Jaguar to that mix. -- Albert ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 191 Sun Mar 27, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 00:07 EST Rhett, At this point I don't think the price is hurting them. What they need to work on is streamlining the design to cut production time and cost by Christmas. Plus they need to work on creating a gang of really good games and several GREAT ones plus get the CD-ROM out the door. I would say Christmas should be their short/long term goal for retail price restructuring though. I'd also put together a special JAG-CD package with 1 CD game for $49-$99 less then buying all three seperate. That would help give the CD base a push. BTW, $99 Sega + $149 32bit upgrade = $248 for a seudo 32bit system. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 192 Sun Mar 27, 1994 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] at 00:23 EST G.K. [Greg]: >This may be true, but Atari can manage to reduce their cost, they can >reduce the retail price without hurting their profit margin, and >simply sell more Jaguars. I have no doubt that they could sell >substantially many more Jags at $175 than at $250. This may be so, but reducing the cost further would involve a major engineering effort which would most likely soak up resources which would best be used for production and advertising. That's what I meant. RHETT [Mr.Anderson]: >But the Jaguar's price is too high to generate enough sales to support >and maintain a software boom. To be mass market, it has to come down >to the price range where it becomes a Christmas gift that most parents >can afford for their children. If it costs too much, it doesn't matter >how great it is. Rhett, I don't know how old you are, so perhaps you don't recall the list price of the Atari 2600. I have ads with the 2600 priced at $279.00, and it sold like wildfire. Please note that $279 in _1977_ dollars is a lot more in today's dollars. _____________________ \hunderbird ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 193 Sun Mar 27, 1994 G.K. [Greg] at 00:57 EST D.ENGEL [Thunderbird]: >This may be so, but reducing the cost further would involve a major >engineering effort which would most likely soak up resources which would >best be used for production and advertising. That's what I meant. I agree that Atari might not be able to do much more engineering wise at this time to bring their cost down. It's really amazing that they could sell it for as little as they have. Just buying a sound card for my PC that can equal the Jag's sound would cost as much or more than the Jag. Hopefully there will be some economy of scale that comes with full-blown production that will let them reduce the price somewhat. I don't remember the 2600 (It would have been called the VCS then) costing $279, but I'm not too surprised. I'm sure it sold much, much better when it "only" cost $150. That's when I talked my parents into getting me one (about 1980 I think), and that was one tough sales job. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 194 Sun Mar 27, 1994 S.LEGRAND [Oppressor] at 01:13 EST Rhett: Better compete with what? The Saturn? The Jupiter? Uranus? Or that much fabled Project Reality Bites? Might as well say Sega really ought to release something to compete with the Jaguar and it better not violate any of Atari's patents heh heh heh... Scott ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 195 Sun Mar 27, 1994 COCO-SYSOP at 01:24 EST One thing that is different this time with Atari is that they don't have to battle in a "deathgrip" market. With the Atari computers, they never stood a chance one the DOS world took over. Even Apple, as big as they are, cannot get to the top (yet, PPC is here now!). The Lynx I think they did okay with, but *WE* just were not ready. At the time, there was a Turbografx portable (we know the fate there) and was Game Boy out then? (It was, wasn't it?) Nintendo had the deathgrip then. But they don't now. The market has been split. Nintendo and Sega are too busy going head to head and I think Atari is going to sneak right past them. Allen ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 196 Sun Mar 27, 1994 J.THOMAS12 [JT] at 02:14 EST The Jaguar commercials are on again! I saw onw last night on KBHK Channel 44 in the San Francisco Bay Area, so the Jaguars must be coming.... ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 197 Sun Mar 27, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin!] at 02:34 EST Of course, they shouldn't reduce the price UNTIL they can meet or exceed the current demand for Jags. Clint, I don't like that thought... (parents that WERE kids when the 2600 came out). HEY! I was a kid then. But I'm not a parent. Scary thought... I'm getting OLDER like you guys. --Kevin ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 198 Sun Mar 27, 1994 S.LEGRAND [Oppressor] at 03:14 EST Rhett: I think Atari has already achieved almost all the rcognition they need. Today I was in a Good Guys store and 3 12somethings were wandering through and passed right by the 3DO, then went "Wow Cool! A jaguar!" (Which was defective BTW) and then they saw the cartridge in it "Trevor Mc Fur, That Sucks!" and walked away after trying to make the unit work right. Add the fact that jaguars don't stay in stock long after they arrive... I don't think the jaguar's price is a problem at this point... It may be later, but not now, let Atari make some bucks until it is... Scott ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 199 Sun Mar 27, 1994 J.ROGOZINSK2 [Rogo] at 07:34 EST Last night my grandson said he finally saw a Jaguar commerial on our local cable TV. It was on the WCW wrestling in the late afternoon (saturday). That same program also advertises Sega and Nintendo games, so at least Atari is going to go head to head with the competition. (Oh, this is in the Buffalo, NY area.) I saw parts of the CDI info-mercial (commercial) and was wondering if anyone was doing an encyclopedia CD or an educational CD for the Jag, or will the Jag CD be able to use CD from those other machines? Also will I be able to use my Jag as a Photo CD viewer? === Joe Rogo === Sunday, March 27, 1994 7:30 am ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 200 Sun Mar 27, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 08:10 EST RHETT - However, ALL new systems inherently cost more. I can't argue against a lower price being better for sales, but to tell the truth, saying a 4-month- old Jaguar at $250 is far too expensive compared to a 4-YEAR-old Genesis at $125 is a ridiculous comparison to make. Sega and Nintendo weren't doing too shabby with the Genesis and SNES when they debuted at prices well over $200. Sure, they sold a lot better when they got under $200 and then under $150 (and now under $100 for core systems), but if nobody was buying them when they first came out, they only would have dropped in price because they were being discontinued. It's EASY to sell old technology at a bargain price! Geez! Who'd want to buy a PPC601 for $250 when you can buy a Z-80 for $2??? COCO-SYSOP - However, Atari DID have the FIRST color handheld with the Lynx and weren't able to sell it! ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 201 Sun Mar 27, 1994 C.SMITH89 [CLINT/A.P.E.] at 08:44 EST Joe, chances are you won't be able to run CD stuff from other platforms (the exception being movies on CD using the MPEG cartridge)but I'm sure some edutainment software will find it's way to the Jag CD(but please no Fatty Bear or Putt-Putt). Atari did have the first color portable(I'm kind of an authority in this field) but that was back when Nintendo(the Gameboy came out around the same time for $100(and it wasn't even worth that))had an iron grip on third party developers("you develop for us and NOBODY else"). One of the fun things about the Jag for me has been when Atari has announced third party developers. Back on the Lynx, the first third party developers weren't announced until the system had been out for 10 months and there were only 6 developers. I recognized 2 of them. The first third party game (Telegames Chess) didn't show up until the system had been out for 18 months(1 year and a half). After being out four years, there are only 8 3rd party Lynx games. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 202 Sun Mar 27, 1994 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 09:32 EST What cities are you guys finding Blockbusters with Tempest rentals in? ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 203 Sun Mar 27, 1994 K.STEVENS1 [Capt. Marvel] at 12:04 EST Joe, I had called atari for an unrelated matter and found out from them that I didnt' have an order pending. Albert, I wasn't saying that IBM/Motorola/Apple to use the Jag set. I was saying that Atari should incorporate the low cost 603 chip into the Jag and have the only PPC game system on the market. Mar-Vel ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 204 Sun Mar 27, 1994 RHETT [Mr.Anderson] at 12:46 EST Clint, The cartridge market for the Sega is way bigger than the Sega CD market. I assume that Atari wants to compete with the Genesis, not the Sega CD. The Sega CD is only a marginal success. The Genesis is a knock-out success. The only reason developers coded for the Sega CD is that Sega was so hot in general. I agree that kids can convince their parents to buy big-ticket items. But to most parents, $150 is about as big as the ticket geets. Thunderbird, The 2600 sold well initially, but it was the price fall that generated the high unit sales and the resulting software boom (and the following bust). As Greg points out, a lot of us couldn't get our parents to buy one until the price came down. Oppressor, >>Better compete with what? How about the Genesis and the SNES, which are still outselling the Jaguar by a wide margin? Kevin, >>Of course, they shouldn't reduce the pricee UNTIL they can meet or exceed the current demand for Jags. You're right. But they should work on cost reducing the Jag (which is more than powerful enough for the current market) instead of upgrading its capabilities. The cost reduction will pay off as increased margins until the price has to come down. Of course, I'm sure this is the path that Atari is taking. I don't believe all these crazy PowerPC rumors. Atari's a bit more savvy than that. Oppressor, I agree--Atari has achieved almost all the recognition they need. Now they need to start selling more boxes. DrH., I agree with you (expect that the Genesis is more like $79 now). All I meant is that Atari should be working to bring the cost down to better compete with the existing machines rather than work at improving the already advanceed performance of their machine. --Rhett ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 205 Sun Mar 27, 1994 D.VANTREASE [Shadow] at 14:36 EST Good point, Rogo. I too am wondering if there is any informational / educational stuff in the works for the Jag/JagCD. Seeing as it is being billed as a "Multimedia System" (as opposed to a 'game system'), I would probably pick up a nice encyclopedia CD or something along that nature. Actually, what I'd REALLY like is a nice MOVIE database, with video and audio clips, for the JagCD! Regarding the Tempest offer, has ANYONE online received any confirmation of there order? I have not. I have written private e-mail twice, asking for confirmation, but no answer. Anyone else try to order S-Video cables too? I asked that 2 be shipped with my Tempest order, but with no reply, I don't know if I should pick them up at a store or not. ATARI, We really _love_ the offer you made us, but for any future ones, could we get some type of confirmation on our orders? (Or is it just me...?) Thanks - Shadow ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 206 Sun Mar 27, 1994 G.K. [Greg] at 15:02 EST the "confirmation" of my order was the charge showing up on my credit card on March 7th. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 207 Sun Mar 27, 1994 T.MAGEE1 [Todd] at 17:43 EST Clint/A.P.E. - Since Rebellion is reprogramming their 3-d engine, how far is this going to set back the release of Checkered Flag II? The game (from what I understood) should have already been released. Todd ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 208 Sun Mar 27, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 18:21 EST This weekend I received Crescent Galaxy. I had wanted a game to show off the graphics capabilities of the Jaguar. I'm glad that's what I bought the game for, because the game itself was disappointing. (I won't even get into the visible artifacts I saw in some of the pictures--obviously JPEGs...) Now all I have to do is scrape together $60 so I can get Tempest 2000. ~dmj ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 209 Sun Mar 27, 1994 J.ROGOZINSK2 [Rogo] at 19:43 EST >...as a "Multimedia System" (as opposed to a 'game system'), I would >probably pick up a nice encyclopedia CD or something along that >nature. Actually, what I'd REALLY like is a nice MOVIE database, with >video and audio clips, for the JagCD! > I really like the idea of the Jag being an intactive learning tool, it has all the right potential between sound and graphics. The joypad also has enough buttons to accomated many options. Maybe someone will port an encyclopedia to the Jag. But somehow I still don't think it will make a piano player out of me. ;) (But I can carry a tune in a suitcase.) >Regarding the Tempest offer, has ANYONE online received any >confirmation of there order? I have not... > I haven't recieved any conformation I just hope they got my order. === Joe Rogo === Sunday, March 27, 1994 7:20 pm ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 210 Sun Mar 27, 1994 C.SMITH89 [CLINT/A.P.E.] at 22:17 EST Todd, I'm pretty sure Rebellion doesn't have to start from scratch on CF2, they just have to rewrite the part of the game that puts the 3-d up on the screen and make it faster. Based on what I've seen of AvP, I have no doubts that they can pull it off. Also, taking magazine lead times into account, they might've already solved the problem by now. Rhett, Well, unfortunately rumors are a part of the gaming market and before the Jag was even released there were people making whispers about everything from a Jag 2 to a Jag portable. Everything I've heard from Atari is that they're more than happy with the Jag's capabilities and the only enhancements to the system are via the CD-Rom, MPEG cart, and a VR Helmet. I'm sure that Atari is working on getting the cost down(I think every company starts working on that the second they release a new system). It's still going to be a while before it's price gets down to the "everybody can buy one" range. I do think that it currently has an excellent shot at the older gamers and the 14+ audience(people who are tired of Nintendo's "we know what's good for you"policies and have grown weary of the Genesis' limits(it's technology is 5 years old, it's color pallete is starting to look weak, and it's gravelly sound pales next to other systems)). I got a chance to play Doom today on a PC and I think this and AvP are going to be strong pulls for the advanced gamers who want to move up to something better. There are also 2 wild cards that could play a huge part in how fast the Jag grabs market share. If the signing of Bally/Midway does lead to Jag versions of Mortal Kombat, NBA Jam, and Mortal Kombat 2 and if the rumors about Capcom(they supposedly, might, possibly, already have Jag development systems)are true, the Jag could become a monster contender. Gamers are an interesting bunch. I dropped by my Atari dealer today(that's where I played Doom). They just got in a Jag for the store and they also had one for sale. They only had Cybermorph and CG to play with on the demo system and I knew the owner wanted to try out Dino-Dudes and Raiden so I brought mine by along with my second controller. She had a ball with both of them. While I was there, a guy came in who had been playing with it the day before(he wasn't thrilled with Cybermorph(go figure) or CG). We played a game of 2 player Raiden and he was very impressed. Several hours later(a half hour after the place was supposed to have closed), this guy told the owner that he was going to buy the Jag right there and then along with a copy of Raiden. To be honest, he said that he was going to be buying the system when AvP came out anyway, but I felt very good about bringing my Raiden by the store. ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 211 Sun Mar 27, 1994 S.LEGRAND [Oppressor] at 23:16 EST Rhett: The NES probably STILL outsells the jaguar at this point, what's your point? From a greedy money-making point of view, Atari has no need to lower the price of the jaguar until A) something else exists in its price range or B) They produce so many jaguars that they just start sitting on shelves like 3DOs because everyone willing to pay $250 has done so... Meanwhile, they have now successfully recruited enough developers IMO to make late '94 very interesting... A far better crop than anyone other than 3DO has IMO... There are going to be some true jaguar classics and of course some real dogs I'm sure... But I don't think it will be 95% Crap, 5% Gold like on the SNES and Genesis ie I have an SNES and all I ever bought for it was StarFox and Street Fighter II. I acquired four more cartridges used for much cheaper (Clay Fighter, F-Zero, Star Wars, and PilotWings). There really isn't ANYTHING else I'd want for the thing. If I had a Genesis, I'd buy Eternal Champions and Out of This World. The rest of the stuff either 1) does not appeal to me or 2) So taxes the powers of these puny systems that the games suck ie SNES Wof-3D and Wing Commander... What makes you think they won't drop the price if they have to BTW? The Lynx went all the way down to $50 this Summer for a while... Scott ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 212 Mon Mar 28, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 00:32 EST Kevin - Re: parents that were kids when the 2600 came out.... I never put much stock in chronological age... I find emotional or intelectual age a much better way of looking at things. As they say... your only as old as you feel! I'm not that old, but I'm still a hippie at heart! (complete with pony tail, although it's a whole lot shorter now!) ;^) Matt ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 213 Mon Mar 28, 1994 G.SWORD [Galen] at 00:54 EST Can Bally/Midway do home versions of Mortal Kombat and NBA Jam? This 3rd party thing always messes me up. I heard that Atari and Atari Games are set up where Atari Games is considered a 3rd party. At least this was my take on it. Can Midway do a home version? What would happen if Acclaim signed on to the Jag, since they hold the home system rights. I'm so confused... ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 214 Mon Mar 28, 1994 RHETT [Mr.Anderson] at 02:21 EST Oppressor, To continue to exist, Atari needs to make a lot of Jaguars and sell them fast. That's the only way to sustain a large group of developers. I realize that much of this is out of Atari's hands--they rely on various companies for parts and IBM for manufacturing. All I'm saying is that these rumors of Jaguar follow-ups is premature and, indeed, almost meaningless. Far more important now are issues of price and marketing. --Rhett ------------ Category 26, Topic 2 Message 215 Mon Mar 28, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 08:05 EST C.SMITH89 - The last time I saw the FATTY BEAR and PUTT-PUTT 3DO games, they were being clearanced for about $15! I'd hazzard a guess that THOSE companies aren't yet happy 3DO developers. K.STEVENS1 - The only problem with switching over to the PPC603 is that it wouldn't be compatible with the current Jaguar! Besides, since the 68000 isn't used heavily anyway, it doesn't really need a bigger, more expensive processor in there. RHETT - The Genesis CORE system is still around $90, but they currently have a $20 rebate deal going on. Atari IS working on cost-reducing the Jaguar (consolidating the chipset and expanding production (i.e. more made==less cost per unit)), but that doesn't mean they're not working towards the future either. T.MAGEE1 - CHECKERED FLAG II has been set back to June/July. Still, that's not as bad as TINY TOON ADVENTURES, which has been set back to October!!! G.SWORD - WMS Industries (Williams/Midway) doesn't do any home videogames -- they license their titles to others to do that (e.g. Acclaim/Arena). Acclaim has already said it WON'T do any Jaguar development (yet!), but that doesn't mean WMS can't sell the Jag rights for their games to someone else -- especially with Acclaim's license for MORTAL KOMBAT expiring in a matter of months (rumor has it that it may not be renewed either -- further rumor says Atari may be involved!). Atari Games has licensed the Jaguar hardware to be used in arcade games -- they're a LICENSEE, not a DEVELOPER. ------------