========================================================================= (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== Category 4, Topic 37 Message 1 Wed Sep 23, 1992 P.KILLIAN [Pete K] at 21:56 EDT Norm, Some of the problems I have had with my Beetle mouse could be described as reverse movement, though they are not always reverse. Sometimes I cannot seem to get it to move one direction at all (usually up or down) even if I try in the opposite direction. Other times, after using the Atari mouse for a while, everything seems okay again. I have a rather old 520 (originally bought with TOS on disk, before it came in ROM). Could a newer keyboard cure this (my local hardware guru had suggested this on general principles before, but I had not really seen a particularly good reason before)? Is there a particular model/revision that is more subject to this sort of problem? By the way, I am planning to buy a Falcon when they come out and hope my Beetle Mouse works consistently with it. I really like the shape, feel, and mouse button responsiveness it has, but my Atari brand seems better made (metal vs. molded plastic roller wheels brackets, etc.). I am still using the original mouse with no repairs ever required, though I have bought replacement switches which I have not installed yet. -- Pete ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 2 Wed Sep 23, 1992 M.DEMOTT [MIKE] at 22:09 EDT Ron & Kevin MQ Def: I wish I had the luck with Atari's mouse that you guys have had. I've owned three in the last 5 years, two of which went bad. Fortunately one of them was a simple switch replacement to repair it which I did myself for $3.00...whew a savings of about $45.00. :^) Oh yeah, I DO use my MSTe for music. ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 3 Thu Sep 24, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 01:02 EDT Pete, One problem that I noticed with the Beetle Mouse was the same one you are having, look at the mouse ball itself. It is made of a soft material and I bet that yours is pitted and chipped. What I did to my Beetle mouse ball was to take a ball from a Golden Image mouse and put it in. The ball from the GI mouse is much harder. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thursday September 24th 1992 00:49 am ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 4 Sat Sep 26, 1992 P.KILLIAN [Pete K] at 23:19 EDT Jeff - ST'er Thanks for the advice on getting a Golden Image mouseball, but how do I get one of those, short of buying one of their mice as well (I really don't need FOUR mice! for one machine)? And, by the way, I don't see any obvious gouges in the ball, though it is much lighter and softer than my Atari mouseball (which has never given me any trouble in that department). -- Pete K. ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 5 Sun Sep 27, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 12:36 EDT Pete, Maybe someone here on GEnie has a extra ball they can sell you. Mine had a few gouges in it when I looked at it and alot of smaller ones. I replaced the ball and not had the problem since. Maybe the company that makes them could sell you one, just say yours got lost or something. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sunday September 27th 1992 12:01 am ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 6 Mon Sep 28, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 18:58 EDT I wonder if the only thing wrong with my first Bettle mouse was the ball? >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 7 Mon Sep 28, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 19:56 EDT Joe, I have had several of the balls from a Beetle Mouse go bad on me, only because they are so soft and pliable. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Monday September 28th 1992 07:36 pm ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 8 Mon Sep 28, 1992 RJROBINSON [ Ron ] at 21:54 EDT I've been using an Alpha Data optical mouse ($49) from Toad Computers the past few days. As a reference point, Toad claims this mouse is based on the Golden Image design. The rodent is a fairly standard shape and has three buttons with firm action and a solid click. The center button is disabled in ST mode (works with Amiga or ST -- switchable). Being optical, there are no rubber coated spherical metallic rolling objects that collect dust, dirt and dog hair that need regular grooming. My previous favorite was the Best mouse but the more I use the Alpha Data, the more I like it. -- Ron ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 9 Tue Sep 29, 1992 T.GIRSCH [T.J.] at 01:26 EDT Jeff STer - I have had no such gouge problems with my Beetle Mouse... What are you using as a mouse pad, sandpaper?!? -TJ BTW, I've had it for about a year now. ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 10 Tue Sep 29, 1992 TQUINN [Terry~Sysop] at 16:23 EDT The first 200 messages or so have been archived and are available in Library 13 as file # 25930. ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 11 Tue Sep 29, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 18:06 EDT TJ, No sandpaper, but the mouse sees alot of use, about 100 hours per week or more. But I am not the only one that has had problems with that mouse ball. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Tuesday September 29th 1992 09:56 am ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 12 Tue Sep 29, 1992 R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23] at 22:22 EDT I've been looking through Joppa's catalog and wanted to know if anyone has had any experience with the Swifty 300 DPI mice? The ad says "effortless finger- tip operation with reliable micro-switch buttons, rapid and smooth point-to- point movement, precise curson control..." They also list an Alfa Optical for $54 and a Contriver mouse for $36 with no descriptions. Anyone have anything good to say about these? Live And Direct [10:54 PM-27/Sep/92], Rod Martin, Network 23/ST Connection ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 13 Wed Sep 30, 1992 E.KRIMEN [Ed Krimen] at 00:19 EDT Ron, Does the Alpha Data mouse have a mouse pad with a grid? ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 14 Wed Sep 30, 1992 RJROBINSON [ Ron ] at 21:15 EDT Yes Ed, the Alpha Data comes with an optical pad, a holder and a 2 year warranty. -- Ron ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 15 Wed Sep 30, 1992 P.KILLIAN [Pete K] at 22:48 EDT Jeff, I didn't get either beetle mouse from a local dealer and so I don't know what company to try to buy an extra from. I bought one at a show, but cannot remember dealer name and none on invoice, the other was included in a package deal I bought from an individual here on GEnie. Can you give me a suggestion on who to buy a ball from? I would prefer to buy from a company since I should be able to get a new, non-pregouged ball that way. -- Pete P.S. I have looked at the ball in each mouse and don't see any obvious heavy damage, just minor variations in the surface. ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 16 Thu Oct 01, 1992 N.WEINRESS [Norm] at 01:02 EDT Pete, I'm sorry I didn't answer earlier, but Jeff is probably right. The age of your keyboard has nothing to do with the trouble you report..that is from the mouse. It will do the same thing on a Falcon. For a new ball, try going to a computer swapmeet. Measure the ball in your Beetle, and check the PC serial mice at the swapmeet...they're going for as little asas $10 now. If you find one with the same size ball, buy it and throw away the mouse! Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 17 Thu Oct 01, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 01:37 EDT Pete, I would not buy another Beetle Mouse Ball as they don't seem to last, I would go with another brand of ball. I don't have a address/phone # for the company that does the Beetle Mouse. But I have the address/phone for Golden Image that you might be able to get replacement balls from: Golden Image Technology Corp. 3578 East Enterprise Drive Anaheim, CA 92807-1627 Work: (714) 630-7765 You might also try: Best Electronics 2021 The Alameda Suite 290 San Jose, California 95126 Work: (408) 243-6950 Cove Systems 16 Commerce Drive East Farmingdale, NY 11735 Work: (516) 753-0093 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thursday October 1st 1992 00:41 am ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 18 Tue Oct 13, 1992 R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23] at 02:12 EDT About a week ago, I was asking if anyone had any opinions on the Alfa series of mice (optical/opto-mechanical). There have been no replies so I assume that no one has used one? I see they're on sale at Joppa for $54 (optical) and $39 (opto-mech). Seems to be a pretty good price. Do most people here agree that optical mice are better than opto-mech's? Is the standard Atari mouse an opto- mech? or just a mech? Live And Direct [6:56 PM-11/Oct/92], Rod Martin, Network 23/ST Connection ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 19 Tue Oct 13, 1992 EXPLORER at 23:57 EDT Rod, I'm not sure if it is the same company but there are several messages posted the past few weeks in this topic on the Alpha Data mouse. Ron @ Atari Explorer ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 20 Wed Oct 14, 1992 R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23] at 02:18 EDT I don't know if it's the same company either. The one I saw listed was for the Al_f_a mouse, not the Alpha Data. Live And Direct [12:50 AM-14/Oct/92], Rod Martin, Network 23/ST Connection ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 21 Sun Nov 08, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 02:12 EST Anyone have any suggestions as to how to fix a Best Mouse from squeaking (it squeaks when it's moved to the right)? I tried rubbing a little oil on the squeaky roller, but that only worked for a few days and now it squeaks again. ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 22 Sun Nov 08, 1992 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 11:28 EST Steve, I would think rubbing oil on mouse balls might be inadvisable unless you are sure there are no corrosives. The squeaking is probably coming from the rollers inside the orifice. Perhaps you should take it apart and clean out the grit on the rollers. ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 23 Mon Nov 09, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:19 EST Steve, I have two Best mice, and they squeak when I use a mouse pad. Have you tried no pad? Or a piece of Plexiglas? Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 24 Tue Nov 10, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 01:09 EST ST.LOU - I tried taking it apart at first, but it's damn near impossible to remove the screws holding it together. ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 25 Tue Nov 10, 1992 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 01:31 EST Steve, I guess it is not like the Atari mouse then which can be taken apart. Perhaps you will need to buy a new one. I am using the BMD mouse which was about 25.00. It is real slick and runs quickly because of its higher resolution. ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 26 Tue Nov 24, 1992 DF.WATSON [Dennis] at 19:06 EST Is the GI optical mouse by any chance model number GI-3500? I looked in the Computer Shopper and found a place called Spec Research Inc. that has them for $29. Their in Walnut CA. Anyone know of another dealer that has them? Dennis ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 27 Tue Dec 08, 1992 DF.WATSON [Dennis] at 19:50 EST Well what happened to everyone? Dennis ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 28 Wed Dec 09, 1992 MIKE.KELLER [ST Aladdin] at 14:43 EDT >Well what happened to everyone? I suspect you can only flog this topic out so far! mike.k ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 29 Wed Dec 09, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 23:15 EDT Message: 27, left on December 8, 1992 From: DF.WATSON [Dennis] > Well what happened to everyone? .... Twas the night before Christmas and all through the house not a creature was stirring, not even a Replacement Mouse... >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 30 Tue Dec 15, 1992 DAEDWARDS at 03:25 EST Well, here's my dream mouse. My original mouse went out with a bad tail. The replacement mouse went out with a bad tail. I got a Practical Solutions cordless mouse, and it has lasted much longer than the first two combined. (Maybe this is part of why PS went out of business. :-) The feet on this mouse are worn to nothing, it slides on the plastic rims AROUND the feet. But I do have a problem with the mouse pad surface getting oily and slick enough that the mouse no longer works. We have to replace it about once a month. I hear this is not a problem with the optical mouse. So when can I get a cordless optical mouse? ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 31 Tue Dec 15, 1992 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 22:46 EST You must have a heck of an environment to dirty up a mouse pad that badly that often. You can wash them, you know. They're just neoprene rubber and nylon, exactly like wet suits five years ago. Give it some warm water and dish detergent, rinse throroughly, and let dry overnight. |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 32 Wed Dec 16, 1992 T.GIRSCH [T.J.] at 00:44 EST If your mouse mat gets that dirty, it's hardly the environment for an optical mouse. -tj ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 33 Wed Dec 16, 1992 DF.WATSON [Dennis] at 18:37 EST To:DAEDWARDS Dont hold your breath for an answer around here. Dennis ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 34 Thu Dec 17, 1992 POTECHIN [RT~Sysop] at 08:50 EST Dennis ... He did receive a few comments, almost immediately, some of which appeared quite valid. Did I miss something? If I knew the answer re: cordless, optical mouse I'd certainly have posted it. :-) Nathan ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 35 Thu Dec 17, 1992 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 11:58 EST Suggests for a replacement mouse? For me is no mouse at all! I use the ALFA (not Alpha) DATA tracker ball. Works real good! *******Brian********* Written on Thursday 17 December 1992 at 11:42 a.m. AST ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 36 Thu Dec 17, 1992 DF.WATSON [Dennis] at 18:39 EST To: >POTECHIN [RT~Sysop] >Dennis ... He did receive a few comments, almost immediately, some of which >appeared quite valid. Did I miss something? If I knew the answer re: cordless, >optical mouse I'd certainly have posted it. :-) Nathan, I never did get an answer to message #26! I did get (DEAD) remarks. Thats the reason I posted him a "good luck". I figured he would need it. Dennis ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 37 Thu Dec 17, 1992 POTECHIN [RT~Sysop] at 22:08 EST Sorry Dennis. I am not personally conversant with the GI optical mouse. By now someone would have posted. Perhaps you might call Spec Research and let us know instead of vice versa. This RT has always been a great source of info for us all but it is not an omnipotent one. :-) Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 38 Fri Dec 18, 1992 DAEDWARDS at 03:06 EST I must point out the superiority of the PS cordless mouse over the Atari mouse in another aspect: I had to scrape the Atari mouse's wheels (inside it) clean about every two weeks. I have NEVER had to clean the wheels on the cordless mouse. As for the surface: as it happens, mouse pads do NOT get dirty particularly rapidly here. They suffer chemical breakdown. My body chemistry is rather acidic, my lady's rather basic; I'm not sure if it is one or the other of us that takes a mouse pad apart at the molecular level, or the combination. With an optical mouse, I could get a grid printed on an appropriate hard plastic (or metal) sheet... or maybe put a piece of paper beneath a clear plastic board. (Dang it, another word is hiding from me... there's a specific kind of plastic I have in mind.) ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 39 Fri Dec 18, 1992 ST.REPORT [Ralph] at 06:41 EST Plexiglas, Acrylic..... etc.. ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 40 Fri Dec 18, 1992 D.MACK7 [Yuperman] at 19:25 EST Back in 1991 after reading an article by Sam VanWyck on his impressions on the the strengths and weakness of the Best Trackball versus the Kraft Trackball, I opted for the version made by Best Eletronics and was instantly very pleased with my decision. But after countless double clicks it became necessary to lay it to rest and I find myself in the market for another trackball. But before buying another Best I'd like to try the other trackball mentioned in the article. Does anyone know if the KRAFT trackball is still available and where I might find it? I've also noticed that distrubiters in the European magazines offer a three button trackball. Anyone have any experience with these pherpherials? ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 41 Fri Dec 18, 1992 J.HAYDEN [JOHN] at 23:38 EST Run PC at 303-493-5565 has some Kraft trackballs left. ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 42 Fri Dec 18, 1992 N.WEINRESS [Norm] at 23:58 EST It should be mentioned that there are replacement plastic pads for the Atari mouse. I purchased some, a long time ago, from Best Electronics. Currently, I use a PC bus mouse from Keytronic, converted for Atari use. It is superior to anything else I've ever used. Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 43 Sat Dec 19, 1992 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 12:49 EST Yuperman As I have previously posted here; I think the ALFA DTA trackball is great. *******Brian********* Written on Saturday 19 December 1992 at 11:13 a.m. AST ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 44 Tue Dec 22, 1992 J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] at 19:59 EST Just to chime in - I received a Golden Image Optical mouse for Christmas. Very nice (and I won't have to clean the darned thing!!) John E. Gniewkowski GenieLamp ST Editor ---------------------- Monday, December 21, 1992 3:07:22 pm ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 45 Wed Dec 23, 1992 J.BRIGHAM at 20:56 EST A while back , someone wo as working on a project to connect a serial mouse y to an ST. I was just playing with a n Unmousde e for the PC. I thought it was great, maybe with a little practice. If we did get a serial mouse to work, how hard would it be to make a driver for the Unmouse. I'll be waiting Rodent Gurus.....Oooommmee .. Brig ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 46 Wed Dec 23, 1992 EXPLORER.1 [] Ron [] at 21:53 EST Brig, Checkout the CyRel mouse drive - a product that allows you to connect most PC serial mouse type devices to the ST/TT serial ports. There is a demo in the libraries and the currently shiping product is even better. Ron @ Atari Explorer Magazine ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 47 Thu Dec 24, 1992 N.WEINRESS [Norm] at 00:16 EST Ron, The program I saw for connecting a serial mouse to an ST suffers from the problem that an ST has only one serial port. Like you can't use the mouse and talk to GEnie at the same time. I have _converted_ PC serial and buss mice to run as ST mice, and wrote this up for GEnie Lamp. I still use a Keytronic bus mouse converted, which is the best mouse I've ever felt. Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 48 Thu Dec 24, 1992 J.BRIGHAM at 19:27 EST Norm, Which GEnie Lamp is it in? Is it in the library? Ron, Thanks and Merry Christmas to you both. Brig ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 49 Fri Dec 25, 1992 N.WEINRESS [Norm] at 00:03 EST Brig, it was sometime ago. Perhaps a GEnie Lamp staffer can shed light on the date. ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 50 Fri Dec 25, 1992 J.BRIGHAM at 19:34 EST I downloaded SMOUSE1B.H yesterday and it incuded ludes all info I think except whether there is a hardware interface you have to build. Brig ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 51 Fri Dec 25, 1992 POTECHIN [RT~Sysop] at 21:29 EST No hardware interface is required to use the Cybercube Serial Mouse program. Just plug and play. Nathan ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 52 Sat Dec 26, 1992 N.WEINRESS [Norm] at 01:08 EST Nathan, how do you use a modem when the serial mouse has occupied your one and only serial port? ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 53 Sat Dec 26, 1992 DF.WATSON [Dennis] at 11:40 EST TO: >J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] > >Just to chime in - I received a Golden Image Optical mouse for Christmas. >Very nice (and I won't have to clean the darned thing!!) > John, Does the "Optical" mouse that you just received have a ball in it? If is dont.......Could you tell me what the "model" number is. Is it a GI-3500 or a GI-2000? Dennis -------- ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 54 Sun Dec 27, 1992 POTECHIN [RT~Sysop] at 10:03 EST Norm ... A) Buy a TT with 4 serial ports. B) Don't. :-) (suspecting that's not quite the answer Norm was looking for but being in that kind of mood.) ;-) Nathan ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 55 Sun Dec 27, 1992 J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] at 22:22 EST Dennis, Well it wouldn't be very optical if it had a ball ;> No, it's a full optical mouse, GI-6000. It comes with a 250 DPI pad, although I found it would work on _anything_ that had some regular pattern to it (cloth, for example). TOAD computers carries this item, along with a nifty mechanical-cordless mouse. Now if they would only come out with a Optical-cordless! John E. Gniewkowski GenieLamp ST Editor ---------------------- Sunday, December 27, 1992 8:40:30 pm ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 56 Mon Dec 28, 1992 DF.WATSON [Dennis] at 10:20 EST TO: >J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] >Well it wouldn't be very optical if it had a ball ;> > John, The reason I asked that question is that some people are confusing the GI mouse w/ball eg.(Optomechanical) with the (Optical). However you have answered my question. So its a GI-6000? Great! I have an outdated Toads catalog here, but I think E.Arthur Brown might beat their price. Ill let you know. Thanks very much for the quick reply. Dennis --------- ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 57 Tue Dec 29, 1992 J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] at 21:39 EST Dennis, Hope I didn't come off snooty with the optical remark. Your question did get me thinking about mice... Is there such a thing as a strictly 'mechanical' mouse? The vector pad which is on the STBook is about the closest I can think of - otherwise they all use LEDs and sunch inside, I think... Do you know of any such animal? John E. Gniewkowski GenieLamp ST Editor ---------------------- Tuesday, December 29, 1992 5:52:42 pm P.S. E.A. will probably be able to beat them, but since TOAD is my 'local' dealer, I try to buy from them as much as possible (besides, my dad gave it to me for Christmas :) ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 58 Wed Dec 30, 1992 N.WEINRESS [Norm] at 00:28 EST John, Some of the inexpensive PC mice are "mechanical". The wheel is a disk of printed circuit board with metal fingers sliding across it. The contacts are very noisy and must be debounced by other circuitry. I modified one for use with the ST, but I didn't succesfully quiet the contacts. Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 59 Thu Dec 31, 1992 J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] at 01:33 EST Norm, Ah-ha! So there was (is?) a truly 'mechanical' mouse! I would wonder "Why?", though. Isn't the opti-mechanical easier to make? John E. Gniewkowski GenieLamp ST Editor ---------------------- Thursday, December 31, 1992 12:31:08 am ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 60 Thu Dec 31, 1992 N.WEINRESS [Norm] at 23:59 EST John, Don' ask me to fathom the motives of Far-eastern manufacturers! I just report the facts. :) Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 61 Sat Jan 02, 1993 D.MACK7 [Yuperman] at 11:36 EST J.Hayden / Brian.H, I'll give Run PC a call today and ask them about both the Kraft and the Alfa Data models. Thanks and belated happy holidays! ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 62 Sun Jan 03, 1993 DF.WATSON [Dennis] at 15:17 EST TO: >J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] >Is there such a thing as a strictly 'mechanical' >mouse? The vector pad which is on the STBook is about the closest I can think >of - otherwise they all use LEDs and sunch inside, I think... > >Do you know of any such animal? > John, As Norm just said about the mechanical mice, they are usually the 10 to 14 dollar ones. A friend was going to give me one, so I looked inside to see if it could be fitted to the ST. When I saw the copper wipers inside I told him to keep it. JUNK! P.S. Can you lift the OPTICAL above its pad while holding button then replace it and continue moving as I do with my Atari mouse? Dennis ------ ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 63 Mon Jan 04, 1993 J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] at 01:18 EST Dennis > When I saw the copper wipers inside I told him to keep it. JUNK! I thought it would be "the cheapest of the cheap" - I wouldn't expect they would last very long at all (dust, dirt, cat-hair, etc.)! >P.S. Can you lift the OPTICAL above its pad while holding >button then replace it and continue moving as I do with my Atari mouse? YES! As a matter of fact, you can hold the mouse about 1/2 inch off the pad and it still tracks (albiet a bit jerkily). All my "mouse-habits" work seamlessly with the optical mouse. The only thing is that it is _very_ light (about a third the weight of the old Atari mouse). They buttons are the nicest thing - very crisp! Speaking of mouse tracking, I found the mouse will track on _anything_ that has some repeating pattern (even denim). A very nice upgrade. John E. Gniewkowski GenieLamp ST Editor ---------------------- Monday, January 4, 1993 12:15:12 am ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 64 Wed Jan 06, 1993 DF.WATSON [Dennis] at 18:53 EST John, >YES! As a matter of fact, you can hold the mouse about 1/2 inch off the pad >and it still tracks (albiet a bit jerkily). All my "mouse-habits" work >seamlessly with the optical mouse. The only thing is that it is _very_ light >(about a third the weight of the old Atari mouse). They buttons are the >nicest thing - very crisp! > >Speaking of mouse tracking, I found the mouse will track on _anything_ that >has some repeating pattern (even denim). A very nice upgrade. This is GREAT! Ill have to have one now. I use the left button on my Atari mouse alot when Im editing in my Dr.T's MIDI software,and my poor ole finger has had it. Thanks for the review, just what I wanted to hear. Dennis ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 65 Thu Jan 07, 1993 J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] at 19:37 EST Dennis, My pleasure, I'm sure you'll be happy with it. Now if they'd come out with a cordless optical mouse! John E. Gniewkowski GEnieLamp ST Editor ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 66 Sat Jan 09, 1993 DAEDWARDS at 01:16 EST Gee, there are a LOT of people asking for cordless optical mice! Any CodeHeads listening? ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 67 Tue Jan 12, 1993 C.KERNS [Craig] at 00:36 EST Not too long ago I converted a Microsoft bus mouse. I got it at a swap meet (almost new) and think I was inspired to try the conversion by your previous article in GEnie Lamp, Norm. I used the old cord off a dead Beetle Mouse and since it used the same connector from the cord to the printed circuit board that the Microsoft mouse used, it ended up being a completely solderless and spliceless operation. All I had to do was rearrange the pins on the connector and: Voila, 400 d.p.i.! I had a Golden Image Optical mouse for awhile, but ended up selling it because I wanted higher resolution. I could use a mouse accelerator most of the time, but with mouse intensive games (Populous II...) I found the extra d.p.i. really made a difference in comfort. -Craig ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 68 Tue Jan 12, 1993 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 03:02 EST I finally got my Best Mouse opened up (they GLUED the damn screws in there!!!) and cleaned out most of the crud that had built up inside, but one of the rollers was still making a squeaking sound (which I guess is a normal mouse sound ). I didn't have any grease or anything to put on it, but ran across an interesting idea. I used some of my Finger-Ease (made for guitar strings to put a lubricating and anti-corrosive coating on them) and sprayed it onto the squeaking roller and it's been quiet ever since. If anyone else follows this suggestion, I would suggest REMOVING the rollers from the mouse before you spray them as the spray may be corrosive to coatings on electronics boards. ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 69 Wed Jan 13, 1993 N.WEINRESS [Norm] at 00:41 EST Craig, how is the "feel" of the Microsoft mouse? I'm still using the converted Keytronic mouse on the STe, and it has the best "feel" of any mouse I've ever tried. I'd like to locate one for my PC, actually. Are you using a DEKA? Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 70 Wed Jan 13, 1993 T.GIRSCH [TJ@EuroGames] at 01:36 EST Norm - The microsoft mouse is quite heavy, as mouses (mice?) go, and the buttons are ultra-sensitive. Better than most mice, on the whole, but IMO too jumpy on movements, and too easy to accidentally click. - T.J. @ Atari Advantage ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 71 Wed Jan 13, 1993 C.KERNS [Craig] at 23:31 EST Norm, T.J. is right, the Microsoft mouse is heavy, but I think it gives it a nice 'solid' feel. I have had to adjust to the buttons also because they are quite sensative. I use one at work sometimes on a Windoze box so I am used to it. I am not using a DEKA, just the Microsoft mouse (w/BeetleMouse cable) plugged into my Mega keyboard. -Craig ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 72 Thu Jan 14, 1993 N.WEINRESS [Norm] at 00:22 EST T.J. and Craig, The Keytronics mouse is "heavy" with a very solid feel. The buttons are very large and reasonably light, but not so light as to cause mistakes. They convert easily to ST use, but I haven't seen them anywhere for some time. Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 73 Sat Jan 16, 1993 MYECK.WATERS [myeck] at 21:12 EST Is the Microsoft mouse the one with the ball nearer to your fingertips instead of under your palm? I remember reading that it made freehand drawing much easier. ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 74 Sun Jan 17, 1993 C.KERNS [Craig] at 01:17 EST myeck, The ball on the Microsoft mouse is about a third of the way back from the front. I guess that is a little different than some other mouse designs now that you mention it. The ball is real heavy and that is what gives it the weight. You should be able to see one in just about any store that sells PC stuff. If they don't have the bus version, the serial version looks and feels just the same, and will give you an idea of what it's like. -Craig ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 75 Thu Feb 25, 1993 F.DEOLIVE at 23:27 EST Ok, from reading the messages here I assume all it takes to connect a Microsro soft mouse to an ST/STe is changing the wiring on the 9-pin serial plug. Can anyone tell me what the pin # changes should be? ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 76 Sat Feb 27, 1993 C.KERNS [Craig] at 00:26 EST F.Deloive, I have converted a Microsoft _BUS_ mouse (or InPort Mouse as it says on the bottom of it). This is different from the Microsoft serial mouse. I have never seen plans to convert an IBM-type serial mouse with just pin changes. However there is a piece of software here in the library that is a driver for connecting a serial mouse to the Atari RS232 port. The only problem is that unless you have a MegaSTe or TT you'd wouldn't be able to use your modem when you were using the serial mouse because they would share the same connector on the ST/STe, and you'd have to swap cables back and forth between them. I can explain what I did to convert the Microsoft Bus mouse is you're interested. It was made easier for me because I had a dead Beetle Mouse cable to use. -Craig ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 77 Sun Feb 28, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 13:36 EST There is a text file in the library that shows how to re-wire an IBM mouse. It might help. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Saturday, February 27, 1993 - 11:39:50 pm ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 78 Sun Feb 28, 1993 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 21:06 EST Jeff: Are you talking about this file? 26120 IBMMOUSE.LZH X BBRADLEY 921013 72064 131 27 Desc: HOW TO BUILD A REPLACEMENT MOUSE ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 79 Sun Feb 28, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 23:15 EST Craig, I would be interested in finding out what you did to convert the Microsoft bus mouse. I too have a beetle mouse I can't use (it drifts) and would like a new mouse with better feel than the orig. Atari one. Thanks, Matt ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 80 Sun Feb 28, 1993 C.KERNS [Craig] at 23:59 EST > > Are you talking about this file? > 26120 IBMMOUSE.LZH X BBRADLEY 921013 72064 131 27 > Desc: HOW TO BUILD A REPLACEMENT MOUSE This file extracts to a BIG (2576 X 3290) monochrome IMG file that shows how to convert an IBM compatible _Bus_ mouse so it can be used with the ST. It was one of the sources I used to convert the Microsoft Bus mouse. The pinout was not exactly the same as in this drawing, but was close enough that with the help of an ohm meter I was able to figure out what went where. -Craig ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 81 Mon Mar 01, 1993 N.WEINRESS [Norm] at 00:13 EST I wrote up a description, in general terms, on how to convert a bus mouse, which was published in GEnie Lamp. I have been using a converted Keytronic bus mouse for two years and it is the best feeling mouse I've ever used. In fact, if anyone sees Keytronic mice for sale, please let me know. I'd like to find one for my PC! Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 82 Mon Mar 01, 1993 C.KERNS [Craig] at 01:03 EST Matt- If you want to convert a Microsoft Bus mouse using your Beetle Mouse cable then the conversion is pretty easy (no splicing or solder). The Microsoft Bus mouse is kind of expensive ($70-$90) new, but you might be able to find one used like I did at a store that sells used computer stuff or maybe a swap meet. The mouse in labeled 'InPort Mouse' on the bottom. What you have to do to both mouses is open them up and unplug the connector that goes from the cable to the circuit board in each mouse. It's kind of tricky but if you're patient and careful you can slowly pry it up. There's probably some special tool that designed for this, but I just used a knife and thin bladed screw driver. Just remember to work the connector loose slowly. Now take the connector that is attached to the Beetle Mouse cable and remove the individul pins so they can be swapped around. There is a little metal tab on each pin that can be pushed down to allow the pin to be pulled out the top of the connector. This also takes a little patience, but just be careful and work gently. Below is a chart showing how the pins should be replaced in the connector to make it work with the Microsoft Bus mouse. ST Connector: MS Bus Mouse Circuit Board Connector: +5v - Pin 7 - Blue = Pin 9 - - = Pin 8 (not connected) Up - Pin 1 - Black = Pin 7 Down - Pin 2 - Brown = Pin 6 R.Button - Pin 9 - White = Pin 5 Right - Pin 4 - Orange = Pin 4 Left - Pin 3 - Red = Pin 3 Ground - Pin 8 - Grey = Pin 2 L.Button - Pin 6 - Green = Pin 1 Hopefully the wire colors are the same for your Beetle Mouse cable, an Ohm meter comes in handy at this point if you want to double check. Pins 1 and 9 are labeled on the MS Bus mouse circuit board itself so you can make sure you replace the pins in the correct order. Logitech also makes an IBM Bus mouse but I don't know what the connector is like inside. It might also be and easy conversion. You already have a Beetle Mouse cable, but for anyone else, I know that the Golden Image GI-600 (opto-mech) also uses the same connector inside the mouse to the circuit board. The regular Atari mouse uses an entirely different connector. Good Luck, Craig ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 83 Mon Mar 01, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:21 EST Hint: A dirty mouse pad can cause problem for you poor mouse. Try using the sticky side of clear tape to clean the pad. If you have cats like I do, or even not, it does a great job of getting all the cat hair and little cruddy things off the pad. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 84 Mon Mar 01, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 08:40 EST Darlah, I don't believe that is the file. I will have to look - it was a text file uploaded by a company from Long Island. Maybe it was posted in the message boards. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Monday, March 1, 1993 - 8:13:12 am ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 85 Mon Mar 01, 1993 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 08:55 EST I couldn't find the one you were suggesting so I asked. I can go through the old archives if the info is really needed. Just let me know..... ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 86 Tue Mar 02, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 07:08 EST Darlah, I might even have it if someone really wants it... I believe that the company was called Cove Computers. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Monday, March 1, 1993 - 11:36:06 pm ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 87 Tue Mar 02, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 23:38 EST Craig, Thanks for the info. If I can find a good deal on a MS mouse I might give it a try. Looks straight forward enough. JSW ST'er, Darlah, If it's not to big a pain in the behind I would very much like to see the Cove Computers mouse conversion file. Let me know if/when it's found. thanks J.Meehan3, Yes, I am a cat owner as well and know well the 'furry' downside. I do keep the bad, ball and rollers clean. Unfortunatly, it's not the pointer control that bothers me. I use Silkmouse 3.0 and with it my original Atari mouse response is as quick as I like it. I won't 'mouse' without it. Alas, it's the feel of the buttons, that's the rub! They require more pressure to activate than I care to issue many, many times per session at the machine. Thanks for the response, Matt ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 88 Wed Mar 03, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:16 EST Matt, If you get the chance you might want to try a Beetle mouse. I have two (one and a spare). They have a nice light feel. Also there are at least three different original Atari mice. The one made in Japan has the nicest feel in my opinion, but not as nice at the Beetle. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 89 Wed Mar 03, 1993 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 08:09 EST Jeff: If I didn't have a convention to go to I would check the files myself. (Yes folks, I will be on from the convention). I am rather short of time at the momement. Even had Aladdin set to pick up this morning but my better half shut my machine off. I rarely use Aladdin except as a time saver. If you do have it, and someone does need it, please do upload it to us, Jeff. Thanks. ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 90 Wed Mar 03, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 22:13 EST Joe M-- Thanks. Yes, I agree the Beetle Mouse has a great feel. I love the light buttons especially! I have one that I would like to continue using but I don't think my old 520ST (circa 1896-7) cares too much for it. It's fine (and super quick) for the first few minutes of use, then I start to lose control. The pointer drifts right when I move mouse left, eventually winding up at the right border and I have to try making very large circles with the mouse just to get it back to the main part of the screen. So frustrating. As I said, with Silkmouse 3.0 I have no complaint about speed or control. But I sure do miss the great button feel of the Beetle Mouse. Matt ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 91 Thu Mar 04, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:36 EST Matt, Interesting, it sounds like you need a mouse trap . >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 92 Thu Mar 04, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 21:06 EST Joe M- Ouch!- that smarts! Pretty cheezy. Matt ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 93 Fri Mar 05, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 07:19 EST Matt, I could not find the file, but here is the address and phone number. You can call them (that is if they are still around). Cove Systems 16 Commerce Drive East Farmingdale, NY 11735 Work phone: (516) 753-0093 Atari Store & Repair Center Yes cats and mice do not mix. I have gone thru about 5 of them (10 cats in the house). I have to clean them about twice a day. I also found that the Beetle Mice do not last very long at all - even without the cats, I love the way it feels but... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thursday, March 4, 1993 - 10:53:02 pm ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 94 Fri Mar 05, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 20:44 EST Jeff- ST'er 10 cats, wow! "run away!... run away!" But seriously, Thanks for the info. I'm going to give them a call.. see what they've got. Maybe I've found a new source! Thanks, Matt ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 95 Mon Apr 19, 1993 J.TREVETHAN [John] at 21:11 EDT O.K. I need a Microsoft bus mouse. All the local ms-dos places want to charge me close to 100 bucks for the thing. (They won't sell it without the driver card either). Some said they have other brands of the bus mouse- that Microsoft was so expensive because I was just paying for the name. At work I use an ms-dos machine with the Microsoft serial mouse and I love the mouse. This is one area where Atari is behind: the standard Atari mouse feels like a toy to me. Squarish, clunky, sloppy buttons, etc. Concerning a previous post- I looked at the MS mouse at work and the ball does sit toward the front of the mouse in relation to the Atari. I removed the balls from both mice and they were almost identical. So- where can I get the MS bus mouse? John T. ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 96 Tue Apr 20, 1993 C.KERNS [Craig] at 00:13 EDT John, I lucked out and bought my Microsoft Bus Mouse slightly used at a computer swap meet. Logitech makes a nice bus mouse too, but like Microsoft's it costs anywhere from $75-$95 new depending on where you get it. Those are the only two I can think of off hand that I've see lately. Almost everything in the DOS world seems to be serial now, and those are the cheap ones. You are right, there is no comparison with the stock Atari mouse. I would suggest you check swap meets or maybe used computer stores in your area. We have a store that specializes in used and older stuff that I've been meaning to check here in town. This is the kind of item they might have. Good luck, hope you find one, it works great! -Craig ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 97 Wed Apr 21, 1993 N.WEINRESS [Norm] at 00:03 EDT John, I use an older Logitech bus mouse on one of my PC's and a serial mouse on my main one. There is _NO_ difference in performance on screen. However, the serial mice cost from $8.50 to $15 at the most. Currently I am using a Golden Image serial mouse that cost $10...and it is superior to any other mouse I have used, on any platform. Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 98 Sun Apr 25, 1993 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 13:00 EDT Anyone interested in the simple mods to a Dexxa serial mouse that make it ST compatible? I've found that no mouse accelerator is really necessary with this sucker! It gives responsive & lightweight clicks that don't put as much wear & tear on my hands. I'm writing up my schematics & some text that I'd part with for... say $10. Anyone interested? I'm sure that the info will be pertinent to other makes of serial mice too. --Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 99 Mon Apr 26, 1993 J.TREVETHAN [John] at 00:37 EDT Kevin, Sounds great. . . I haven't ever played with the Dexxa mouse. I'll go check one out. Is your mod small enough to fit into a microsoft serial mouse? John T. ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 100 Wed Apr 28, 1993 DF.WATSON [Dennis] at 18:42 EDT Sometime back I said I was going to call E.Arthur Brown and get them to send their latest catalog so I could order a GI optical mouse, but so far I called their answering machine and left my address, then called and told a woman my address, and its been two months and no catalog. The *#%$ with them! Anybody else I can get a catalog from that sells them? Dennis ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 101 Thu Apr 29, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:29 EDT Dennis, Jeepers, EAB sends me catalogs when I don't even ask for them. Maybe that's where yours went.... :) Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 103 Fri Apr 30, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 21:47 EDT Kevin- I would be interested in the plans. I haven't seen a Dexxa mouse anywhere around here (N.Y.) but if the mods will work with other serial mice, it would certainly be worth it! Matt ------------ Category 4, Topic 37 Message 104 Sat May 01, 1993 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 19:13 EDT I cracked open (unscrewed) the MicroSloth serial mouse on my 486'er the other day, the same circuit should work fine for it, and there is a little more room in the MS mouse. I may check on the MS mouse a further next week, but the Dexxa works for sure. I like the contour of the Dexxa since it fits in the hand better than the MS mouse. (Plus it is cheaper... ) --Kevin ------------