========================================================================= (C) 1994 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 5 Sat Jan 20, 1990 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 17:31 EST Sub: NeoDesk CLI This topic includes all messages covering the NeoDesk CLI. A complete GEm based command line interpreter accessory that hooks directly into NeoDesk 2.05 or later. 200 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 1 Sat Jan 20, 1990 GRIBNIF at 21:45 EST The CLI should be out towards mid to late February. The newsletter going out should tell you a little more about it. Rick ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 6 Tue Apr 03, 1990 W.BAUGH at 21:38 EDT Dan, I just received my CLI today (April 3) ... it looks very impressive! My serie serial # falls within the range stated above, but works fine. I have a couple of suggestions just off the top of my head that I wanted to tell you. First, for those of us with hard drives and large partitions, it would be nice to use an MSDOS like parameters /w and /p to create columns and pause the display. Also with the use of ls it would be nice to also have a shorter display (as ls normally is) and the ability to pause... since it would probably be to difficult to simulate a | (pipe) feature; even though a pg feature would be nice (ie; ls -l | pg). Also a grep type feature would be a help to narrow directory listings. I guess what I am saying is that it would be great to see more UNIX type commands available in such an easy fashion. I was greatly disappointed that Minix would not read TOS format, so your CLI with more UNIX would be a great replacement! Oh and one more question; is it possible to substitute the '/' char. for the '\' char. in do path names? Most folks (especially UNIX users) would probably rather use the '/' because that's what their used to and it is easier to get to when you're typing. Thanks for the continued support!! Bill ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 7 Wed Apr 04, 1990 V.AVERELLO [Vince-Cubed] at 05:31 EDT You could write a batch file to do a directory listing the way you wanted it, the capability is there with %first and %next. Vince - V-Cubed Software ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 8 Wed Apr 04, 1990 GRIBNIF at 13:27 EDT Bill, I'm glad to hear that your copy works. As for your comments, here goes: The biggest consideration when writing the CLI was to find the best compromise between size and features. There are too many CLI's that take up so much memory that they make running programs next to impossible on a smaller machine. I agree that things like "dir"/"ls" could probably benefit from things like /w, /p, and sorting. In fact, the first two could be added fairly easily and may be for the next version. Sorting, on the other hand... For now, you can always pause the CLI's output by using Control-S and Control-Q and, as Vince suggested, you could easily emulate both /w and /p by using a batch file and the %first and %next functions. Unfortunately, both pipes and grep would really add a lot to the code size. True i/o redirection is really not an easy thing to do from a desk accessory and I, personally, do not care for the wide variety of problems it causes when used with a GEM-based program. I just felt that it would be too confusing for most people to have a program crash when they use i/o redirection, just because the program makes one or two GEM calls within it. For this reason, the i/o redirection within the CLI only affects the input and output of the CLI itself. Nonetheless, I tried to make this as powerful as possible by adding the device names and the .INPUT and .OUTPUT variables. On the subject of replacing \ with /, well, it would be trivial if TOS had been designed like Messy-DOS was, where you can easily replace one with the other, but unfortunately it is hard-coded to only use \. In order to use another character as a path separator, the CLI would have to change things back to the way TOS expects it to be everytime it makes a TOS call or calls a NeoDesk function, which would definitely affect performance. I am sure that this is going to be one of those programs that absolutely everyone has suggestions about. We will, of course, listen to them as we have in the past for NeoDesk and act on the ones that do not disturb that delicate balance between usefulness and memory consumption too much, so keep 'em coming! Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 9 Wed Apr 04, 1990 WAYNED. at 19:28 EDT GRIBNIF, I haven't had alot of time to play around with CLI yet, but I did notice that several of the example batch files do not work properly. Off the top of my head I remember Calc, Makemenu, and Clock don't work properly. They seem to have troubles in the sections that determine whether input is waiting, or rcving the input. I don't recall which do what, but some 'assume' you made an input even if you didn't, and others lock up, but not allowing you to input anything forcing you to press the reset button. ( no 4 keyboard reboots work) I have TOS 1.4 in a Mega IV. I also haven't played around yet with leaving things out of my AUTO folder to see if it's one of those programs. Just thought you might like to know in case you get other people with troubles. Wayne ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 10 Wed Apr 04, 1990 GRIBNIF at 19:32 EDT Wayne, It sounds as though you are running into the same problem with duplication that causes some copies of the CLI to crash on some machines. It just manifests itself differently under TOS 1.4, it would appear, judging from our testing. I'll send you a copy of the program to fix the error in duplication. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 11 Thu Apr 05, 1990 WAYNED. at 20:47 EDT Dan, Ok, thanks I'll give it a try and get back to you. I just downloaded the file. I just figured that if there were duplication problems that the program wouldn't work at all. Wayne ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 12 Thu Apr 05, 1990 V.AVERELLO [Vince-Cubed] at 21:44 EDT I've almost got a DIR with wide option batch file worked out. I'll upload it as soon as possible. Vince - V-Cubed Software ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 13 Fri Apr 06, 1990 V.AVERELLO [Vince-Cubed] at 19:37 EDT I will be uploading DIRW.BTP in a few moments. It still has a problem with short file names throwing off the spacing, but with my wife going in & out of labor I figured I'd let the public have it & figure it out. The one parameter it wants is the file mask for directory listing (like *.DAT), if the parameter is empty the BTP assumes *.*. It shows directories in inverse video & hidden files bracketed in <> symbols. As it is it's a good example of %first & %next. Vince - V-Cubed Software ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 14 Mon Apr 09, 1990 V.AVERELLO [Vince-Cubed] at 22:11 EDT Anyone else out there have any batch files or batch file ideas? I'm bouncing off the walls here between labor/false labor pains (my wife's of course :-) ). Someone please bounce another idea around so I'll have something to keep my mind off of the labor/delivery thing .... Vince - V-Cubed Software ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 15 Tue Apr 10, 1990 WAYNED. at 10:47 EDT Gribnif, I don't know if I ever got back to you, but the patch program for CLI which you sent me fixed up all my problems with the supplied sample batch files. Thanks Wayne ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 16 Tue Apr 10, 1990 GRIBNIF at 22:19 EDT Wayne, I'm glad to hear everything works now. We have yet to have a bug report that cannot be cured by the program I sent you, but I suppose it'll happen sooner or later (it always does! ) Vince, Good luck to you and your wife on little Vince IV (or whatever the name you have chose for a girl is)! Give us a call when things quiet down. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 17 Tue Apr 10, 1990 V.AVERELLO [Vince-Cubed] at 22:24 EDT Between minor league emergencies here I have managed to fix the short filename problem with DIRW.BTP (Thanks, Dan for reminding me about $COL). When the file gets cleared it'll be #14811. Vince - V-Cubed Software PS: The doctor says the baby is due in the next 2-10 days so things will getting a bit hectic here. ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 20 Thu Apr 12, 1990 C.BINCKLEY at 21:02 PDT Gribnifs, I sent in my order for the CLI, and for the NeoDesk manual, over 5 weeks ago, and haven't received them yet. I included my VISA account number for payment. Is there a problem, or haven't you received my order? Please let me know - I saw your booth at the World of Atari show, by the way, and didn't get a chance to talk to you guys in person, but the beautiful dark-haired woman (whose name I didn't get) I talked to at your booth told me that NeoDesk 3 was presently slated for a June release - if it's not too late to make suggestions (and if this one hasn't already been made), how about key equivalents for running desk accessories? I don't know if that's impossible, but I sure would find life a lot easier if this could be done somehow. I know this isn't the INF_LOAD topic, but to save time I'm going to brazenly ask it here: someone from your booth - maybe one of you, Rick and Dan, I just spoke with you briefly - told me the problem with the INF_LOAD icon could be solved be making it the first in the list of Icons in the NeoDesk .INF file - I tried this, and it doesn't work on my system (Mega 2, TOS 1.4, monochrome monitor) - after using the INF_LOAD icon from the desktop, 2 or 3 of the icons near it (for other programs) call the INF_LOADer instead of their own programs. Did I miss something? -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 21 Fri Apr 13, 1990 GRIBNIF at 22:21 EDT Chuck, I'll ask Tricia (the "beautiful dark-haired woman" ) about the status of your order on Monday. It's very possible that it was one of the more recent ones to go out. I'm sorry about the delay, but she has been pretty overworked lately, what with all these shows and here it is Taxtime. Actually, 3.00 will let you call-up NeoDesk Desk Accessories immediately with a single control-key click. We beatcha' to it! I'm afraid I'm going to have to look into the annoying little bug you are talking about with respect to desktop icons that still think they are NeoDesk Desk Accessories. I'll try to come up with something more difinitive and post it in the NeoDesk topic. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 22 Sat Apr 14, 1990 WAYNED. at 00:41 EDT Chuck, I'm using INF_LOAD on my Mega II (expanded to 4 megs) with TOS 1.4, and both Mono, and Color monitors. It's working fine here. First thing I'd try is shutting all other AUTO, and ACC's off. Then turn them back on 1 by 1. I'll bet it's one of your other AUTO progs, or ACC's interfering with it. Wayne ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 23 Sun Apr 22, 1990 WAYNED. at 10:33 EDT Vince, I tried your suggestion for getting the .INF files to autoload by double clicking by using CLI. Worked like a charm, THANKS!! Wayne ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 24 Fri May 04, 1990 W.LAS at 21:50 EDT I also have gotten my NeoDesk CLI, and I am fairly happy with it. Except that I have this odd problem with the key click being turned off when I open the CLI. It sometimes stays off for the rest of my computing session, and sometimes it doesn't. Ah well, I guess the silence is soothing on the nerves :]. As for the /p and /w options... They would be might helpful, I think. And for the first time, I think the ST scrolls in windows too fast. Vince's DIRW file is pretty good, but you must admit that it is kind of slow... Walt (201)335-5274 [Alpha Complex] I hope you don't mind the plug... ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 25 Sat May 05, 1990 GRIBNIF at 17:28 EDT Weird. I don't know of any reason why the keyclick would disappear. Does it turn back on if you close the CLI, or something else? Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 26 Sat May 05, 1990 W.LAS at 22:26 EDT Um, no, sometimes the key click doesn't come back. I haven't had a chance to actually figure out when or why it turns it off, but I'm really not that concerned about it. Walt ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 27 Thu May 10, 1990 GRIBNIF at 22:02 EDT I wonder if we should take the line about "scrolls in windows too fast" as a compliment. For years people only complained how "slow the ST scrolled its windows"... Rick ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 28 Sat May 12, 1990 W.LAS at 09:52 EDT Oh yeah, it was a compliment. The darned filenames scroll by so fast, I can't read them. Which is, of course, why I was hoping there'd be a pause switch. By the way, I really like the selectable font size. I've never used any other size besides 0. Except when I feel in a "VIC-20" mood and set it to 3. Walt ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 29 Sat May 12, 1990 V.AVERELLO [Vince-Cubed] at 13:59 EDT Control-S and Control-Q work to pause & resume a scrolling DIR display in the CLI window. This should help in reading them or you can write a paging DIR- type batch file. Vince - V-Cubed Software ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 30 Sun May 13, 1990 W.LAS at 14:45 EDT I think I found another bug with the CLI... If you use a batch file to copy something from, say, one drive to another and there is another program with the same filename the dialog box with the OK SKIP and ABORT (or whatever), the dialog box stays on screen unless you scroll something through the window. Walt Alpha Complex (201-335-5274) ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 31 Sat May 19, 1990 GRIBNIF at 23:07 EDT W.LAS, Another bug? What was the first one? I am pretty sure that was taken care of, but I will double-check tommorow (I'm at home now). You should be able to easily page a DIR display by means of a batch file and using a temporary file. I'll see if I can put a sample up here on how that would work... Rick ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 32 Sun May 20, 1990 V.AVERELLO [Vince-Cubed] at 07:10 EDT Dan, How about adding support for changing/setting environmental variables from within the CLI ? Vince - V-Cubed Software ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 33 Tue May 22, 1990 V.AVERELLO [Vince-Cubed] at 18:24 EDT Dan, I know there probably is a reason for this but at the moment it escapes me: Why can't a batch file run another batch file? Vince - V-Cubed Software ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 34 Tue May 22, 1990 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 18:58 EDT I am not familiar with Neodesk but in the IBM world one can indeed call a batch file from another. I do it with my Portfolio. ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 35 Tue May 22, 1990 GRIBNIF at 20:37 EDT It's mostly the major reason why the CLI has static limits on everything: the lack of real memory management on the ST. Because a desk accessory cannot just ask for more memory from the system whenever it wants to, you have to allocate a static amount when the DA first runs and live with it. Since running a batch file within a batch file would mean having to reserve memory for a second set of many of the data structures used by the CLI, it does not really make sense to reserve this much memory whenever the CLI runs (and even then you would be limited to "x" levels of recursion.) It may be possible to add a configuration option to allow for a certain amount of memory to be reserved when the CLI first gets loaded, and this is one idea that is being considered. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 36 Tue May 22, 1990 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 22:12 EDT Hmm Dan, what I am hearing you say is one could possibly set up an allotted amount of space configurable by the user? If one did do it in this fashion could you do a shrink to fit feature? I hardly shut off my machine so I don't reboot or use anything but Flash these days and the 1040 tests files. I would like to find the time to start using my utilities. This idea has peaked my interest. ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 37 Tue May 22, 1990 DOUG.W at 23:33 EDT Since NeoDesk is an application, couldn't it request memory on behalf of the CLI? --Doug ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 38 Wed May 23, 1990 M.VEDERMAN2 at 09:44 CDT Reserving hi end memory seems to alleviate memory fragmentation and handling problems. We have used this for many programs (including Shadow) and have found it to be the best method, rather than a straight Malloc. - mike ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 39 Thu May 24, 1990 C.BINCKLEY at 01:27 PDT GRIBNIFs - The CLI is GREAT! But I have a question - how do I send a string of hex values to the MIDI port? Redirection isn't the problem - I can't figure out how everything gets translated - i.e., if I want to send this MIDI message out - C0 00 (MIDI program change on channel 1, program #0) - how do I type this in the CLI (or in a batch file)? I'm not confused aabout the commands, just the language for describing hex values. I've tried using "\xC0 \x00", but although I get some kind of program change on my external MIDI devices, I DON'T get program change #0 (or #1 on some devices. It's as if the CLI won't LET me send a hex value of "0" out the MIDI port. ALSO, while playing around with variables, I discovered that I can't se a hex value in a variable. For example, if I "set a '\x1A'" and then "echo '\xC0' $a -> MIDI:", the CLI apparently sends the ASCII characters "\x1A" instead of the implied hex value of the variable string. I don't remeber how many variations of this I tried, reading and re-reading the relevant portions of the manual several times, but if this is some kind of limitation that can be removed from future versions, I'd be EXTREMELY happy! I hope I have made this clear. I'm not terribly familiar with CLI's and batch files and such, but I palyed around with the CLI in my roommate's Amiga enough to see that there is an AWFUL lot of power hidden there for users bold enough to investigate it. This is why I jumped on the NeoCLI without a moment's hesitation - I've been a faithful NeoDesk user since I first heard about it over a year ago - prior to version 2.x - and the combination of NeoDesk and a CLI that hooks directly into it was an offer I couldn't refuse! -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 40 Sun May 27, 1990 GRIBNIF at 20:35 EDT Darlah, Doug, Mike, The problem with asking NeoDesk to reserve memory (via Malloc) is that the memory will belong to the current process under normal circumstances. This means that if the current process (like NEODESK.EXE) terminates then the memory is magically freed by GEMDOS without letting the CLI know about it. Even though there is a technique to prevent the above from occurring, there is still no way to prevent the memory fragmentation that can occur when the process quits and another one is run. Mike, do you mean by modifying phystop? Actually, the way I would envision it would be to have a default buffer size for the window contents, history, variables, etc. This size could be changed, but the user would be forced to re-boot in order for it to take effect. This is certainly the most "bullet-proof" method. Chuck, I think the problem with your trying to send "\xC0\x0" (no space in there, notice) is that the CLI has to use something to distinguish the end of the input string (or, in this case, the parameter) and an ASCII NUL character (the \x0) is what is traditionally used by the C programming language. It may be possible to force this to work the way you would like for a later version of the CLI, but as far as I know there's no way to get the current version to send a NUL. I will look into it though. The second thing you mention is most likely because of the space you have in your "echo". Try "echo '\xC0'$a -> MIDI:" (without the outermost quotes, of course.) Otherwise, a space character gets sent to the MIDI port right after the \xCO. Thanks for the positive feedback, too! Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 41 Mon May 28, 1990 M.VEDERMAN2 at 11:20 CDT Dan - We don't ever touch phystop. We do, however, protect the memory from being released when the 'foreground' application exits. As for the memory frags, we have found that grabbing hi-end memory really does reduce (or eliminate) fragmentation. I can send you a small code fragment (I call it getmem) that completely demonstrates how to acquire and protect the memory to reduce fragging... - mike ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 42 Mon May 28, 1990 E.ROSENQUIST [Strata] at 22:32 EDT Post away please Mike - I'd like to take a peek at it. Eric ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 43 Tue Jun 19, 1990 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 20:47 EDT Somebody asked for this, so here it is. This is a very simply file viewer which runs out of the NeoDesk CLI. Copy this into a .BTP file and then (if you want) install it as an application for all files ending in ".*": ; A simple NeoDesk CLI file viewer, save as DISPLAY.BTP or such. unset * set old_wind $window select "\*.*" "" "Select file to display:" if $item == 'FALSE' || %fname $item == '' exit endif set i 1 for x in "$max_wind" set wind$i $x set i $i + 1 endfor set i $char_w MULT 80 if $wind3 > $i set wind1 $wind3 - $i set wind1 $wind1 DIV 2 endif window $wind1 $wind2 $i $wind4 type $item pause window $old_wind unset * exit The batch file first gets the user file using an item selector. If it gets a valid name, it then creates a window that is 80 characters wide and the full height of the current resolution. That window, of course, is centered. Use [Control][S] to stop the display and [Control][Q] to continue. [Control][C] aborts the display. This is VERY crude, but it gives you a base upon which to build. Rick ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 44 Thu Jun 21, 1990 GRIBNIF at 20:38 EDT Jeez, Rick, why give the batch file a .BTP extension if it doesn't take\ parameters? Try changing the first few lines to the following: unset * set old_wind $window if $1 != '' set filename $1 else select "\\*.*" "" "Select File to Display:" if $item == "FALSE" || %fname $item == '' exit endif set filename $item endif ...and, later on in the file, change the "type" command to: type $filename Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 45 Wed Jun 27, 1990 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 22:34 EDT Dan, Its .BTP so that you can drag files to its desktop icon. While NeoDesk 3 doesn't have this limitation, version 2.05 requires that it be a BTP for that purpose. Rick ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 46 Thu Jun 28, 1990 W.LAS [Austin] at 20:17 EDT Speaking of NeoDesk 3... Cough, ahem.. When will we be able to get it? ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 47 Thu Jun 28, 1990 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 23:21 EDT As Atari would say..."Real Soooooooooooon Now" Rick ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 48 Thu Jul 12, 1990 A.DIPIETRO at 23:44 EDT SOMETHINGS I DON'T LIKE ABOUT THE CLI...IF YOU ATTEMPT TO USE MORE THAN THREE BUTTONS IN THE ALERT WINDOW AND RUN IT, THE COMPUTER CRASHES!! SHOULDDO A LITTLE ERROR CHECKING THERE...IF YOU DON'T RE-SIZE THE WINDOW AND DO A DIRECTORY LISTING IN TOO NARROW A WINDOW, YOU JUST SEE THE INFO WHIZ BY...NOT TOO HELPFUL...ALSO, THE LISTINGS TEND TO BLUR DUE TO THE SPEED... SOME GOOD FEATURES THOUGH...ALERT WINDOW,FONT SIZE... *H ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 49 Fri Jul 13, 1990 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 01:31 EDT The %ALERT function simply calls the system ALERT function. The three button limit is a GEM limit and is clearly documented in the manual. The scrolling speed was designed to work as fast as we could make it go, mostly to help the slower non-blitter machines. You can use [Control][S] to pause the display and [Control][Q] to continue. We are considering several enhancements for a future version, possibility including a history buffer. Anyways, thanks for your kind words. We worked very hard on the CLI and are glad that you find it useful. Rick ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 50 Fri Jul 13, 1990 A.DIPIETRO at 19:12 EDT Having downloaded some other CLI demos, it is difficult to find one that has everything but the following would be nice: DEFINITELY a history buffer.... easy way to see TIME,DATE (I like the TUI way where if you simply type date or time with no parameter the date or time is shown...unlike MS-DOS which prompts you for input...also more than one parameter to the DIR command (like Michtrons DOS Shell)... finally...I would like a version that can be installed and used outside NEODESK...I realize that it was done to make the CLI small but it really limits its use... Can't wait for NEODESK 3.0! ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 51 Fri Jul 13, 1990 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 22:28 EDT Dipietro, Thank you very much for your kind words. We have a long list of improvements that we are considering for a future version of the CLI. In the meantime you can get the time and date by the following commands: ECHO %DATE ECHO %TIME Under NeoDesk 3.0 you will be able to execute the CLI as a stand-alone "NeoDesk Program". No upgrade to the CLI is required. Rick ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 52 Sat Jul 14, 1990 A.DIPIETRO at 14:15 EDT One last suggestion...can you put in a command to 'query' before deleting/copying/moving a file?? Since this is already done with ALERT boxes at the GUI level I think it could be implemented easily at the CLI level. Thanks for taking the time to respond... ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 53 Sat Jul 14, 1990 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 21:41 EDT DOS or UNIX never really had any queries, so we never even thought about putting any in, hmmm. There is a full query if there is a filename conflict, though. Sounds like something you could write a batch file about. Anyways, I will pass the idea on to the 'CLI ideas file'. Rick ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 54 Tue Jul 17, 1990 D.STIDHAM at 07:31 EDT Thought you all might like to know that I uploaded what I _think_ is the fi rst GEnie Neo CLI batch file. I have used thios file in my own business to automate printing through UltraScript(do ALOT of it daily). I fully documneted the batch file before I upped it so that I can help even the novice of novices take advant age of it. Its small but fairly powerful, a testimony to a great addtion to Neodesk--the CLI. Thanks for placing this power in our hands guys(gribnifs) Use it as a sample if you don't know much about batch files or otherwise. I just thought that others using Neo with Ultra,etc...might be able to take advantage of it. BTW if anyone else has a batch they would like to share why don't you up it? Dan Stidham ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 55 Tue Jul 17, 1990 GRIBNIF at 19:26 EDT Actually, Dan, Vince Averello has uploaded several (beatcha' ) but we do, nonetheless, really appreciate your upload. By sharing batch files we can all help eachother to get the most use out of the CLI. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 56 Tue Jul 17, 1990 D.STIDHAM at 22:53 EDT Yeah I read the message thread off-line after I replied and I noticed that (darn). Anyway I thought I was the first one cause I've been browsing new files for CLI batches and I didn't see any, Vince's musta slipped by. I'm going to do a search in the utilities. i'd like to see what everyone else is doing with the CLI... Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 57 Wed Jul 18, 1990 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 00:03 EDT I wrote a small "mail" program in a batch file. The only problem is that it requires that two machines be hooked up via a joint storage (hard disk or such)...maybe someone with a lantech or such might be interested? I was thinking about how to refine it so you can use it to read/write GEnie and MCI mail off-line. Maybe I will get back to that soon and upload it... Rick ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 58 Wed Jul 18, 1990 D.STIDHAM at 02:52 EDT Rick, I've also created batches to switch between Ultra and PgS in customized fashions. For instance, in one simple batch it will load PgS and after I quit it will automatically pass the PS file(s) that I just printed to disk through PgS for draft printing, after which an alert box will allow me the choices of going back and correcting mistakes, proceeding with a set # of final drafts, or returning to the desktop to let me think it over. If I choose to print the finals it will them move appropriate files to permanent resting places so that I'm ready for my next client. This has halped my productivity immensely(helped--I may live in Ky but I don't have an accent--hehe)... If anyone would like to take alook at the batch let me know and I'll fmail it to you. Not that its a master piece of programming but you may be able to build on it,etc... Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 59 Wed Jul 18, 1990 W.LAS [Austin] at 21:01 EDT If you ask me, I think the "COLDBOOT" command is the best out of the lot. I have a batch file that will reset the computer and load up the BBS again when my Co-SysOp has to take the board down remotely ( MBBS crashes a lot for me). But I did have one small problem with the CLI... I tried to MOVE a file into a non-existant folder, and I got the busy bee. For a minute or two. So, I hit a few keys and I got this real cool garbage coming down from the top of the screen. Did it twice, and it worked both times. W Walt ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 60 Thu Jul 19, 1990 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 00:47 EDT I am pretty sure that was tested rather heavily, but I would try it tommorow (now at home on a Toshiba laptop). ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 61 Thu Jul 19, 1990 H.MITCHELL2 at 20:34 EDT I notice that, in the CLI, if you enter a line like e:\dbman\dbman.prg file.cmd the CLI sets the default directory to e:\dbman. Is there ANY way to prevent this. I have a LOT of utilities and programs that need the default directory where 'file' is and not where the program is. In fact, the lack of this capability in NEODESK is the primary reason I bought the CLI. Boy was I surprised! ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 62 Thu Jul 19, 1990 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 22:27 EDT Mitchell, That one is our fault. When 2.05 was written (well before any NeoDesk Accessories existed) it had not occured to us to allow a NeoDesk ACC to execute a program with a "different" path. So NeoDesk 2.05 always sets the path back to that of the program when it executes it. When the CLI is used with NeoDesk 3 the path of the 'files' is always kept. Therefore things work the way you expect them to work. You see, the CLI doesn't have much to do with this problem, it is something handled by NeoDesk itself. Never really thought of a good 'graphical' way to allow you to execute a program from one path while keeping another path as the system path, that is primarily why NeoDesk doesn't offer that within itself. I believe the "read.me" file for the CLI documents the behavior with "paths". Rick ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 63 Mon Aug 06, 1990 S.GILBERT5 at 20:58 EDT I have found an addition I would like to see added to future versions of the CLI. I would like to see some sort of error traping like ON ERROR GOTO label.... Right now I am using the SuperCharger as a virtual directory for WordPerfect. I have to run the SC_RAM.TTP program a and then run WP.PRG ( Ideal little batch file operation ). I need to know if the ramdisk I: exists and if so I want to skip to the command to run WP.PRG. The command IF %EXISTS I: or IF %EXISTS I:*.* does not work. I thought if I could simply enter a command ON ERROR GOTO label I would be able to successfully bypass the command that creates the ramdisk but although an error message is returned when I type I: and the ramdisk doesot exist there is no way for me to trap the error that I can find in the manual. Any help would be appreciated. I don't power down my system much and if I simply run WP.BAT and the ramdisk already exist SC_RAM.TTP is very happy to create another ramdisk J: etc.... Thanks Steve ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 64 Mon Aug 06, 1990 W.LAS [Austin] at 22:12 EDT Yeah, I'll second that. A way to tell if a drive is present. Walt ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 65 Tue Aug 07, 1990 GRIBNIF at 14:34 EDT Steve, You are quite right about there not being a way to do what you want to (I even tried one hack with output redirection without luck.) I'll add the ideas of error trapping and a modification to the drive check to the list of improvements for the CLI. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 66 Thu Aug 09, 1990 A.DIPIETRO at 00:08 EDT I have had a strange problem with STwriter and CLI... seems I have a file which sometimes doesn't work correctly ...the same code written using the CLI's file builder works...any ideas? -Anthony ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 67 Thu Aug 09, 1990 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 00:18 EDT Anthony, If you mail us the batch file we can take a look at it and try to see what is wrong with it. You should make sure that you are saving an ASCII file from ST Writer. Rick ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 68 Fri Aug 10, 1990 S.GILBERT5 at 22:54 EDT Dan, Thanks for your quick reply to my post. I appreciate your considering adding my suggestions to the next release of the CLI. Do you have any idea when the next release might be? Thanks Steve ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 69 Sat Aug 11, 1990 A.DIPIETRO at 00:23 EDT Rick, How do I mail you the file? Also, could there be some conflict with other programs I have running? I was just wondering if you heard of this happening. Anthony ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 70 Wed Aug 15, 1990 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 10:18 EDT Anthony, I haven't run into anything yet that conflicts with the CLI. You can send us the batch file via page 200 (mail). Rick ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 71 Sat Aug 18, 1990 A.DIPIETRO at 15:11 EDT Rick, I don't mind sending it to you, but not sure if it will help. It seems if I run it two or three times in a row, it messes up. The first time it works (except for the IF statement which I think I have set up wrong). After that, the alert box has the ? symbol and then the ! symbol. Anthony ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 72 Sat Aug 18, 1990 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 19:39 EDT I still would not mind taking a look at it... ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 73 Sat Oct 27, 1990 T.J.HARRIGAN at 19:53 EST I'm having some problems getting CLI to run when called from the desk accessory. I just received CLI with my upgrade to version 3.0 of NeoDesk. I'm able to run the CLI as a program with no problem. When I try to use the desk accessory, I get a fairly strange message that is something like "Are you sure you have 2.05" ? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Tom Harrigan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 74 Sat Oct 27, 1990 DOUG.W at 23:27 EST Tom, you need to install the CLI using the "Accessories..." option in the "Set Preferences..." dialog. --Doug ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 75 Tue Oct 30, 1990 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 15:41 EST Tom, Did you make sure that you entered the "NEO_CLI" under Set Preferences in the "Accessories..." dialog box? NeoDesk 3 needs to know in advance about the NeoDesk Accessories you are using. This is where you would enter them. You can check the NeoDesk 3 manual or give us a call at (413) 584-7887 for more info. Rick ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 76 Fri Nov 02, 1990 T.J.HARRIGAN at 20:32 EST Thanks for the reply. I thought that upon installation the accessories dialog box showed that NEO_CLI was there but I'll check it again. Tom Harrigan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 77 Tue Nov 27, 1990 TROSENKRANTZ [Todd R.] at 21:23 EST Redirection Help needed: Can the CLI's re-direction be used to split files? I know that it can catc..ate multiple files into one but the best I could do was to get the same line or character repeatedly. Splitting files would be used to manupulate some very large text files produced from browsing the messages on BBS or RT's Is it possible to use the parms. passed to a .BTP file in a FOR loop such that the $1, $2 ,$3 etc. can be read into other variables. something like this; set x $# for i in 1..$x set file$i $$i ;where $$i represents $1 ,$2, $3 endfor This would not be needed if we had a SHIFT funtion, but for now I must use an entire sub-routine for each iteration, some of which will be used almost never. Thanks, Todd R. ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 78 Wed Nov 28, 1990 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 21:36 EST Todd, Splitting files is not something that is part of the CLI, though, off the top of my head, you could probably do something like: ; change "lines" for the number of lines to read set lines 50 ; change this to the name of the input file set .input INPUT.TXT ; change this to the name of the first output file set .output OUTPUT1.TXT ; read the first "lines" of the file and echo them back out while %hasch && $lines > 0 getstr s echo "$s" set lines $lines - 1 endwhile ; now echo the rest of the input file to a second output file set .output OUTPUT2.TXT while %hasch getstr s echo "$s" endwhile As for getting all of the filenames into separate variables, the only good way I can think of doing it with the present version of the CLI is like so: for i in 1.."$1 $2 $3 $4 $5 $6 $7 $8 $9" set file$i $i endfor This effectively creates one large string consisting of any arguments passed to the batch file and uses the parsing feature of "for" to pull out each element. The disadvantage of this is the case where one of the arguments contains a space, a comma, or a tab character. The next version of the CLI will have the ability to do secondary variable name expansion, so that something like you wrote, "$$i" could be written as "%expand $i". Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 79 Sat Dec 01, 1990 D.L.DELEGAL [Darin] at 11:39 EST I have a suggestion for the NeoDesk CLI. I would like to see the ability to keep a command line history and access it via the up and down arrow keys a-la VAX/VMS. This is a very convenient way to use command line histories, and much faster than the unix C-shell method of number the responses. I have worked on a number of different OSes, VMS and Unix lately, and can tell you that the VMS command history handling is one of the nicest, slickest handlers I've run across. If you would like, I can get out my VMS doc set and get you the description of all keystrokes that are implemented for handling the command line and command history. Darin ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 80 Sat Dec 01, 1990 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 16:55 EST Darin, I guess we are one ahead of you . The next revision of the CLI has the ability to scroll back on the command line history by pressing [Shift][Up Arrow] and [Shift][Down Arrow]. The [Shift] key is needed since the CLI already uses the arrow keys for editing the input line. Rick ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 81 Sun Mar 10, 1991 R.MONFORT1 [RINGO ] at 13:21 PST Question what other goodies will the new CLI do? I think someone mention running programs in a window? ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 82 Sun Mar 10, 1991 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 23:25 EST Ringo, Yep, the new CLI is able to run most TOS programs inside its GEM window. Very nice for programs like ARC and LHARC. I'll see if I can compile a better list of new features and capabilities in the next week. Rick - Gribnif ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 83 Wed Mar 27, 1991 D.STIDHAM at 05:10 EST I just wanted to put out a request here for more bacth file uploads that may be of some use or interest to us(we?) Neodesk+ CLI batch file users... I know I have upped a couple that automate Ultrascript printing and there have been a few others but I haven't see any in awhile... ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 84 Tue Apr 30, 1991 M.DOUVILLE at 03:24 EDT WOW. I just bought the CLI, nice program. But did I have a heck of a time getting it to work with the linker from Personal Pascal. All I did was type this simple line: e:\linker e:\myobject,e:\pasgem,e:\paslib I just couldn't get it to work. Finally did get it to work by using: e:\linker 'e:\myobject,e:\pasgem,e:\paslib' The only thing I can figure is that the CLI must normally replace the comma with a space which causes the linker to choke. Using the quote causes it to be treated as one paramater. I'm I right or I'm I right? ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 85 Tue Apr 30, 1991 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 18:28 EDT M.Douville, You're right . Dan P.S.: You can also use double-quotes (") instead of single-quotes (') if you want variables within them to be expanded. I'm really wondering why the PPascal linker needs the commas at all, as this is far from "normal". ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 86 Sat Jun 08, 1991 A.ADOURIAN1 [MUX RAT] at 17:09 EDT Gribnif, I just got the CLI, and I was hopeing to replace PCommand with it for the operation of a Fido BBS system (Binkley and all that...). However, I could find no reference to reading ERRORLEVEL with the CLI. Am I missing something here? AL ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 87 Sun Jun 09, 1991 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 21:17 EDT Al, I do not know what ERRORLEVEL is, but it sounds like something that is specific to PCommand, and it is not something you are likely to find in other CLI's. Version 1.0 of the NeoDesk CLI does not support error handling or trapping, but version 2.0 does both quite extensively. The current plan is to send upgrade notices to registered users, so if you have sent us your warranty card, you should be hearing from us very soon, as version 2.0 is nearly completed. If you have any questions about batch files, let me know. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 88 Mon Jun 10, 1991 A.ADOURIAN1 [MUX RAT] at 21:55 EDT Well, ERRORLEVEL is more of an MS-DOS thing than a PCommand function. When programs like Binkleyterm and Confmail exit after doing what they do, they deposit a value between 0 and 255 in some magic place. This value is ment to be used by a controlling batch file to determine the next course of action. It's not an enviornment value (I checked it out). A PCommand/COMMAND.COM example: :BTRUN d: cd bt ;Usual drive and path stuff... BT ;Runs Binkleyterm if errorlevel = 251 goto ERROR ;Binkleyterm quit with a fatal error if errorlevel = 192 goto BBS192 ;Human caller to BBS at 19200 baud if errorlevel = 96 goto BBS96 ;Human caller to BBS at 9600 baud if errorlevel = 10 goto F10 ;Start new event (or F1 key pressed) if errorlevel = 20 goto F20 ;Mail Received (or F2 key pressed) if errorlevel = 1 goto EXIT ;ALT-X (Binkleyterm exit command) ; ; all the routines from here on until... ; goto BTRUN Strange, huh? No functions or definitions, it's just 'there'. Perhaps an MS-DOS guru or Fidonet master could jump in here? I know I'm not the only one ready to ditch PCommand... ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 89 Sun Aug 11, 1991 C.BINCKLEY at 16:27 EDT WELL? When can we expect to see the new version of the CLI? HUH?!? ...Just Getting Antsy... -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 90 Tue Aug 13, 1991 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 22:42 EDT We'll be sending out a newsletter that mentions the CLI upgrade (and quite a few other things) very soon. Expect it in the next 4-6 weeks (bulk mail can be pretty slow). Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 91 Fri Aug 23, 1991 JLS [John STanley] at 05:23 EDT What's changed in the new cli? ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 92 Sat Aug 24, 1991 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 19:16 EDT Lots of things. TOS program output appears in the CLI window, it has true aliases, command scroll-back, a scrollable history buffer, and batch files run a lot faster. There are also a number of new commands and functions, and two new types of regular expression (wildcarding). The newsletter will detail all of this. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 93 Sun Sep 15, 1991 B.REEVES2 [Alter Ego] at 18:19 EDT What newsletter? Is the new version of the CLI available now? Gee, I think I must have missed something. ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 94 Sun Sep 15, 1991 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 20:24 EDT Yup, the new version of the CLI is available. I'll see if we can get a file uploaded with all the upgrade info about all of our products within the next few days. The newsletter will also be mailed as soon as we get something back from the printer. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 95 Sun Sep 29, 1991 C.BINCKLEY at 18:59 EDT Just wondering when I'd be receiving the new CLI. I paid for the upgrade at the Glendale show. Thanks... -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 96 Tue Oct 01, 1991 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 09:45 EDT I believe those all went out, but I will double-check... ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 97 Wed Oct 02, 1991 C.BINCKLEY at 07:16 EDT Gribs, Naturally, the day after I posted the inquiry about my CLI upgrade, it shows up in the mail...heh-heh...I think the same thing happened when I was waiting for the NeoDesk 3 upgrade. I guess I've discovered the secret method for speeding up upgrades-by-mail - you have to PSYCHICALLY WILL IT (unconsciously, of course)... Anyway, THANKS!!! The new version looks great! -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 98 Wed Oct 02, 1991 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 21:10 EDT We actually send it to your neighbor who waits until a special phone call from us: "he posted, give it to him now!". So, what do you think of the new CLI 2.0? Hope we didn't waste our time adding all those new commands... Cheers, Rick ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 99 Wed Oct 16, 1991 PZ [John Doe] at 22:57 EDT Have upgrade letters been sent to registered users of the CLI? I y purchased release 1 about 2 months ago and sent in my registration. I'd definitely like to get my hands on the new release. Phil Zampino ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 100 Fri Oct 18, 1991 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 23:02 EDT Phil, If you've sent in your warrant card, then you should be getting the newsletter very soon. We have sent out most of the US and Canada ones and we've started to hear from people who have gotten it. It's bulk mail, though, so please be patient. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 101 Mon Nov 04, 1991 J.FRANDOLIG [John F] at 23:30 EST HOLD THE PRESSES... I ordered NeoDesk CLI a couple weeks ago, ( along with stalker and Steno) - I just got it today and I spent a couple hours going over the manuals - they looked great !!. I couldn't wait to try out the CLI -- BUT ... My CLI disk has "CARDFILE" on it - OOP's - you guys might want to check your duplicator out.... So now what, I'll check it out, maybe I can trade it back to you for the CLI - or maybe I'll just decide to keep it instead . :) What do you think. By the way, since I ordered from you, I don't really have to send in all those registration cards do I ?? John Frandolig ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 102 Tue Nov 05, 1991 PZ [Phil Zampino] at 22:35 EST I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I hadn't seen any information about the CLI upgrade, and that still holds true. Can you check to see that I'm actually registered with you? My serial number is 001495, if that helps. Eagerly waiting, Phil Zampino ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 103 Wed Nov 06, 1991 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 10:46 EST John, Oops! Just send it back to us with a brief letter saying it has the wrong files on it. Write BAD DISK on the outside of the envelope so that it will get processed immediately. Phil (and everyone else), I've posted file #21472 which is a text version of the newsletter so if, for whatever reason, you haven't gotten one in the mail you can download this one instead. Oh, the file may be #21473 instead of 21472. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 104 Thu Nov 07, 1991 R.ROUNTREE1 [Shaft] at 02:29 EST I guess I should find out the same--My serial # is: 001028, V1.00. I gave you my new address in California at the Glendale Show. My old address was in the UK (an APO address). Did the change get into your database? Richard G. Rountree ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 105 Fri Nov 29, 1991 F.GORON [Frank] at 19:52 EST Two quick questions about the NeoDesk CLI #1 - Has the number of selections in a menu been increased in ver 2.0? if not, I vote strongly in favor of it for the next version. #2 - Is there a way to do a combination "terminate batch / close window" If you use exit in a batch it exits back to the prompt. If you use close it will close the window but the batch is not terminated. Right now I'm using close first, then exit. It gives the desired effect because when you reenter the CLI window, the first thing it does is exit the batch file. The thing that concerns me is that if you have a batch file in "suspended animation" while doing other tasks at the Neodesk, or in other applications are you running a risk of some sort of conflict? Okay, one more question, is there a "clear screen" command planned or already in version 2.0? Thanks Frank ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 106 Wed Dec 04, 1991 T.WRATHER [Wrather] at 22:20 EST In MS-DOS on the command line, double quotes may be used to group tokens together. For example the command line: token1 token2 "token3 token4 token5" "token6 token7 token8" would result in argc being set to 4. In NeoDesk CLI 2.0 argc is set to 8 (although NeoDesk CLI strips out the double quote characters). Is there a way in NeoDesk CLI to achieve the same results as in MS-DOS? I've been told that gulam will do what I need, but I would prefer to use NeoDesk CLI if possible. (Note: If this is covered in the CLI manual, please refer me to the proper page.) ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 107 Thu Dec 05, 1991 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 13:42 EST Frank, Nope, the number of MENU entries hasn't been increased, you are the first to suggest it. I suppose it could be done, though you really can "roll you own" pretty easily with something like: echo 1. First entry echo 2. Second entry getch ch if "$ch" == 1 ...commands... else if "$ch" == 2 ...commands... endif Yup, I hear what you are saying about CLOSE and EXIT. I'll see what can be done about this. There really isn't any chance of a conflict from using CLOSE, except that if you start another batch file from NeoDesk the old one will be terminated first. There is no clear screen command per se, however, you can always put something like this into your NEOAUTO.BAT: alias cls echo '\f' Wrather, Double-quotes DO enclose one parameter in the CLI, as do single-quotes. The problem you are experiencing results from the fact that under TOS a program is responsible for parsing its own command line. What the CLI passes to the program is a string containing all of the parameters separated by a space. The program, when parsing this, has no way of telling the difference between spaces that were quoted and ones that were not. One solution to this is the extended arguments protocol (XARG) which used a special environmental variable (ARGV). While the current shipping version of the CLI does not support this, I have already come up with a version which does. Please note that for this method to work as you would like, the compiled program must be capable of understanding ARGV. Older programs which do not use this method will work the old way. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 108 Thu Dec 05, 1991 T.WRATHER [Wrather] at 19:21 EST Dan, This XARG protocol sounds exactly like what I need. I need this for a program that I am porting over from MS-DOS. If necessary, I could modify the program to conform to XARG. If the version of the CLI that has XARG is in a somewhat stable state, I would be willing to beta-test it. Thomas Wrather ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 109 Thu Jan 09, 1992 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 19:56 EST Here's a helpful routine for anyone looking to convert the current system date to a string with the actual month in it: set m %mid %sysdate 4 2 /* get just the month */ set m $m MULT 3 - 2 /* and adjust for index into string */ set m %mid "JanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDec" $m 3 set d %mid %sysdate 7 2 ~ ',' /* get day and append a comma */ if %left "$d" 1 == '0' /* turn "01" into "1", if necessary */ set a %len "$d" - 1 /* get length of string - 1 */ set d %right "$d" $a /* and take the rightmost chars */ endif echo The date today is $s"." $d 1992. Has anyone else got any interesting batch files to share? Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 110 Sun Feb 02, 1992 J.FRANDOLIG [John F] at 10:55 EST I have been using the Neodesk CLI 2.0 for some time to do simple compiles with GNU C, without leaving the editor (Stalker). Three questions for now :) 1) Now I am trying more complicated things and I would like to have the CLI automatically do some alias's at start up - is this possible? 2) Also, I have tried to use the CLI to run GNUMAKE and it seems to work ok unless the makefile has shell commands in it (horrible binary pattern on the screen. then lockup). Is it possible to "spawn" to a new shell (CLI) in this manner? 3) I have a batch file that needs to use a temporary directory that I have specified in the environment variable TEMP, is there any way to access an environmental variable value and use it in the mkdir command, and the %exists function? Thanks for any hints you can give on using this neat accessory (or using it as a program) to compile c files and manage header files and such. Suggestion for the future - allow an option on the ls command such as s+ for show slash in front of subdirectory names when viewing files in the wide format, then I could alias lc as ls w+ v- s+ and easily see lots of files and folders and identify which is which.... Thanks, John Frandolig ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 111 Mon Feb 03, 1992 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 13:53 EST John, You can set aliases, variables, the window size, etc., by just writing a NEOAUTO.BAT file. Place this in your NeoDesk disrectory and it will get run whenever NeoDesk first runs. Hmmm...it should work, though I don't have GNUMAKE to see what it's doing. Does the secondary CLI work if you just run it straight from the NeoDesk CLI? Does the same behavior appear if you run the CLI as an NPG? The problem is that SETENV sends its output directly to the console (not a variable). The solution (not a very good one), is the following: setenv TEMP -> somefile getstr var <- somefile rm somefile Yup, it looks really horrible, I know. I'll try to think if there is some way that "set .input" could be adapted to act more like a pipe for a later version. I suppose the s+ option is a pretty good idea. I'll add that, though it will actually have to be more like ".\FOLDER", since "\FOLDER" means it is in the root directory and this would mess up batch files which rely on being able to use the name as-is. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 112 Tue Feb 04, 1992 J.FRANDOLIG [John F] at 20:46 EST Thanks for the quick reply, Dan. - That's SERVICE... I'll experiment more with GnuMake and let you know if I can/can't get it to work. John F. ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 113 Mon Feb 24, 1992 T.WRATHER [Wrather] at 20:51 EST Suggested features for NeoDesk CLI: 1) Support for the Atari XARG. 2) The ability to CUT from the NeoDesk CLI window to the GEM Clipboard. This would allow the output from TOS and TTP programs to be easily CUT into a text document. 3) If the CLI window is open, have keyboard input automatically sent to the CLI. (I hate having to TOP the CLI window before typing) Will there be future versions of the CLI and/or NeoDesk? Gribnif has been quiet from a product development point of view for some time now. The only new products offered recently by Gribnif have been acquired from other development sources. Ted Wrather ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 114 Wed Feb 26, 1992 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 10:44 EST Ted, 1. Already done for 2.1. 2. Under consideration for 2.1. 3. This would interfere with other GEM programs GREATLY. I don't think many people would like this sort of approach. Oh, I'm working on one or two things, myself. Just wait and see... Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 115 Tue Mar 03, 1992 M.DOUVILLE [Doc] at 00:27 EST Quick question(s): 1. What does it cost to go to version 2 of the CLI I have version 1.00. 2. What does it cost to upgrade from version 2.06 of STALKER. 3. Where do I ship to (PO box 350?)? 4. With the new version of CLI can I run a TOS program in the window (a compiler) and still background download. Thanks Michael Douville ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 116 Sat Mar 07, 1992 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 15:48 EST Doc, 1. To get version 2.00 of the CLI, send us your original disk and $10. 2. For STalker, to upgrade just STalker it's $25. For both STalker and STeno, it's $35. Send both your manual AND your disk. Shipping and Handling, depending on what you order: US Canada up to $20 $3 $4 $20 and over $5 $7 3. Yes, the address it P.O. Box 350, Hadley, MA 01035. 4. No, unfortunately, this is not multitasking. When a TOS program is running, GEM events are not serviced, so STalker would not be able to continue to download for very long before the RS232 buffer overflows. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 117 Mon May 11, 1992 S.INGRAM at 22:04 EDT How's it going Dan. I have one quick question. I noticed that MS-DOS has a command called "space"--as you probably know. Are you considering adding this command to a future version of CLI. Because when all of the commands or lines of text are on the screen, they are all display one right the other without spaces. Take it easy. -SCOTT- ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 118 Fri May 15, 1992 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 19:12 EDT Scott, Actually, I try to avoid DOS as much as possible, so I'm not familiar with the "space" command. I couldn't quite tell what it does from your description. Could you elaborate a bit? Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 119 Thu Aug 20, 1992 MYECK.WATERS [myeck] at 21:18 EDT Hello GRIBNIF; Having recently bought NeoDesk second-hand, I have now picked up the NeoDesk CLI in the same manner. I will be sending in the original disk as per usual, but I wanted to make sure I had the current version: mine is V1.0. Is that current? And if not, how much should I be sending in for the update? thanks ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 120 Wed Aug 26, 1992 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 16:21 EDT myeck, Actually, the current version of the CLI is 2.1. It has A LOT of new features, such as a command history and window scrollback, aliases, better env var support, etc. To upgrade, send us the disk and a check for $10 + $3 S&H: P.O. Box 779 Northampton, MA 01061 Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 121 Wed Aug 26, 1992 WAYNED. [Wayne] at 19:20 EDT Dan, I gave you guys my CLI disk at the CT show and got it back a few days later, (thanks for the fast service) However several of the batch files in the example folder don't work properly. They don't line feed, and just keep carriage returning and printing on the same line. One of the is the DIRW.BTP file. There are a couple others that do the same thing. Is it something with my system, or an error in the files? I remember something about a bug in TOS (I have 1.04). I don't recall much about it, but I think its symptoms may be similiar. I do run Poolfix, and TOS14FX2. I haven't really looked at the code for the bat files, so it may even be a simple fix in the batch files themselves. Wayne ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 122 Thu Aug 27, 1992 J.KRZYSZTOW [JEFFREY] at 00:57 EDT Dan, I have version 2.0. What is the upgrade $$ to 2.1? What changed from 2.0 to 2.1? Jeffrey ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 123 Thu Aug 27, 1992 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 16:35 EDT Changes for the NeoDesk CLI version 2.1 --------------------------------------- o The command history buffer can be searched by using "!text". o Filename completion can be activated with the Esc key. o DEBUG output can be sent to a file. Syntax error reports when DEBUG is ON are much more useful now. o A new .ERROR variable which can be changed with SET. o The format of the commandline prompt is controlled by a variable, so you can do things like: set prompt '$cwd Command? ' o The CLI can optionally update NeoDesk's windows after file operations. o Support for the ARGV paramter passing scheme. o A floppy disk FORMAT command. o A SHIFT command to shift parameters. o A TIME command to show execution time. o An %ARCHIVE function. o Redirection to/from variables. This allows for things like: setenv LIBPATH $> libpath echo LIBPATH=$libpath o Various bug fixes, including LOADINF within a batch file. To upgrade from version 1.0 of the CLI, the cost is $10 plus S&H. To upgrade from version 2.0, the cost is $5 plus S&H. In either case, send your original NeoDesk CLI disk and a check drawn on a US bank account or a money order. Shipping and handling charges: US Outside the US $2 $3 Gribnif Software PO Box 779 Northampton, MA 01061 (413) 247-5620 ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 124 Thu Aug 27, 1992 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 16:38 EDT Wayne, Um, I just tested all of the batch files in the SAMPLE folder and they work allright. The weird thing is that you mention DIRW, which is no longer on the CLI disk because it has been replaced with an actual option to DIR/LS. This leads me to wonder if you are trying the sample batch files from the CLI 1.0 disk. If this is the case, then it is understandable that things would not work correctly, for the reasons stated in the addendum. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 125 Fri Aug 28, 1992 J.KRZYSZTOW [JEFFREY] at 01:13 EDT Dan, Are you going to post a patch to upgrade from 2.0 -> 2.1? Jeffrey ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 126 Sat Aug 29, 1992 WAYNED. [Wayne] at 11:05 EDT Dan, That might indeed be the problem. When I moved the 2.1 files over to my HD, I don't think I deleted any of the old .BAT or .BTP files and just copied the new ones over which only overwrote any that had the same filename. My error most likely..... YEP! I just looked at the new CLI floppy and there is now DIRW in the samples folder. Sorry 'bout that chief! Wayne ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 127 Wed Sep 02, 1992 F.CUCCI at 21:52 EDT GRIBNIF, I WAS ASKED TO NOTIFY YOU THAT MY CLI SOFTWARE WAS TRANSFERRED TO GE- MAIL ADDRESS MYECK.WATERS. THE SERIAL # IS 001533. THANK YOU, F.CUCCI ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 128 Sat Sep 05, 1992 MYECK.WATERS [myeck] at 14:37 EDT Thanks, Frank. OK, now that I've got my CLI all comfy - is there any way to get it to use lower-case letters in the prompt? It's stupid, I know, but the uppercase really bugs me. Yes, I've read the manual. Er...paged through, anyway... ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 129 Fri Sep 11, 1992 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 11:01 EDT Jeff, No, the upgrade from 2.0 to 2.1 is not a free upgrade. It is very reasonably priced at $5 + $2 S&H, though. Just send us your original disk and a check. F.Cucci, Thank you. This has been changed in our records. Myeck, Well, no, there isn't. This is mostly just because all of the TOS functions in the operating system return strings which are in all uppercase. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 130 Fri Sep 18, 1992 B.BEAUCHEA [Bob Beauchea] at 20:48 EDT Gribnif, I just installed the new Neodesk CLI version 2.1 and I'm having a small problem. In my Neoauto.bat I print a small file which has two escape codes, to initialize the default font for laserbrain. Neodesk CLI 2.0 printed the file fine but 2.1 just locks up. The busy bee mouse pointer stays. I also tried using the type command and redirection but I get the same results. The file I'm printing has in it: x'27'@x'27'P The file is only four bytes. Do you have any idea what could be wrong? Thanks, Bob Beauchea ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 131 Tue Sep 22, 1992 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 13:16 EDT Bob, Was this using the PRINT command? I jus ttried it and it works allright from the NEOAUTO.BAT file. Maybe you could send me your BAT file. By the way, a faster way is to use this command: echo "x\033@x\033P" -> prn: I would be interested to know if this also locks up. A lockup like this could be a bug in PRINT, or it could be that LaserBrain is just not responding for some reason (so the output goes to the parallel printer port instead, and since you don't have a printer hooked up, the computer locks-up for 30 seconds.) Does it also lockup if you just run NEOAUTO.BAT manually? Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 132 Tue Sep 22, 1992 B.BEAUCHEA [Bob Beauchea] at 21:05 EDT Dan, The problem I am having with printing and laserbrain is the same whether I use the print, echo or type commands. The system locks up indefinitely. I am using the following for a Neoauto.bat: ;* NeoDesk CLI settings batch file created by settings.bat ;* ;* Font number font 2 ;* Window size/position window 8 40 608 336 ;* Aliases unalias * ;* Cursor cursor OVERWRITE b+ ;* Prompt string set prompt '"$cwd "' ;* Miscellaneous variables set wc_expand FALSE set use_argv FALSE set updt_neo FALSE set tos_wind TRUE attrib C:\auto\*.* a- echo "x\033@x\033P" -> prn: exit Through experimentation I discovered that if I comment out the unalias command, it prints fine. Do you have any ideas? Thanks, Bob ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 133 Tue Sep 29, 1992 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 17:52 EDT Bob, Um, no ideas at all. Could you, perhaps, EMail me the entire file? GEnie re- formatted it in your letter, and I want to make sure I get it exactly the same when I try it here. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 134 Fri Oct 30, 1992 J.KRZYSZTOW [JEFFREY] at 20:31 EST Grinif, Some things I'd like to see in the next version of NeoDesk CLI 1) I'd like an way to display directories in different sort orders. Ascending and descending alphabetizations, by size, by date, and by extention. 2) Using / to move between "words". 3) A way to call STalker, STeno (EdHak) and any other NeoDesk Acc using the NeoDesk pipeline already installed. (Ie. a command to call STeno (EdHak) from the command line and pass a filename to edit.) 4) A way to do filename completion. If I type E and press a key (like the TAB key), the CLI fills in the first directory entry that starts with E. Pressing the key again will replace the entry with the next directory entry. So on until you come to the end of the list. Using the same key, but with a shift key (the Shift key could work), the CLI would go backward through the directory entries. This filename completion should support folders as valid completions. This allow you to do something like: cd d:\ut\a\l and possible have the command line get completed into: cd d:\utility\arcs\lharc The CLI would have filled in "ility" of utility, "rcs" of arcs, and "harc" of lharc. So what do you think? Jeffrey ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 135 Sat Oct 31, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 11:51 EST Jeffrey, TomShell will do some of what you want, and it's even distributed by Gribnif. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 136 Mon Nov 02, 1992 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 16:09 EST I'm not sure who it was who was having the problems with a NEOAUTO.BAT file which sent commands to LaserBrain, but I tried out the exact batch file you sent me, and it worked fine when a real laser printer was connected. I suspect that this is something weird in LaserBrain. Jeff, 1. Sorted directories are something I've considered adding, but decided it would be a bit of a hassle to sort an arbitrarily large list from a desk accessory (which is supposed to never allocate more memory after it starts.) I'll see if maybe the unused "pool" of memory for the settings can be used, instead, though. 2. Noted. 3. Neat idea! I'll have to see if that's possible with the confines of the Neo ACC protocol, though. 4. Version 2.1 already does name completion for items in $PATH, though not quite the way you outlined it. Maybe this can be expanded upon in the future. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 137 Mon Nov 02, 1992 T.GIRSCH [T.J.] at 23:48 EST In the next version of NeoDesk CLI, _I'd_ like to see a .DAT or .INF File that you could use to tell CLI how much memory it can use, etc. Either that or have it look for a specific NeoDesk Environmental Variable. Why, you ask? Because I'd like to be able to have a buffer of the past _n_ lines of text (or past _n_ commands) and be able to scroll backward, do cut/paste, etc. This way, resizing the window could also be done without losing the contents of the window. And, a special value of the variable could tell CLI to operate reserving no extra memory (the way it works now). In case you haven't noticed, I've become quite spoiled by the Command Tool (ala SPARC OpenWindows) and would like to see many of its features incorporated into future versions of CLI. I don't know if the user base of CLI would warrant such a large revision, however. Just some more suggestions... - T.J. @ Atari Advantage ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 138 Mon Nov 16, 1992 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 17:18 EST TJ, Um, have you looked at version 2 of the CLI? It has a configuration program which lets you set all of the things you asked about, and more. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 139 Tue Nov 17, 1992 T.GIRSCH [T.J.] at 00:56 EST Well, I haven't completely finsihed the RTFM stage yet, but I'm getting to it. All the manual really said was that you could configure it automatically or manually, but not what the difference was. Still looking, but thanks... - T.J. @ Atari Advantage Magazine P.S. I tried running STEVIE.TTP (a VI clone) within the window, but when I hit the bottom of the screen it freaks out. Any ideas? ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 140 Mon Nov 23, 1992 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 18:34 EST TJ, Probably, there are not enough lines in the CLI window. Try making sure you've got at least 24 lines. Otherwise, the CLI will overwrite whatever is on the last line whenever it is supposed to be drawing on the 24th. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 141 Sun Jan 03, 1993 A.STUDER1 [Andrew] at 00:27 EST Is there a way to autoboot a batch file when NeoDesk finishes running instead of a regular program? I'd like to auto-run a batchfile via NeoCLI 2.0 to run my BBS/networker off of similar to how AUTOEXEC.BAT runs from PCOMMAND.PRG's execution. ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 142 Sun Jan 03, 1993 T.GIRSCH [TJ@EuroGames] at 02:54 EST Andrew - You can do both. Just name the batch file "NEOAUTO.BAT" and it will run automatically upon reaching NeoDesk, provided the ACC is present. I believe it will run -before- the "program for auto execute" you specify in the "Paths..." menu... Hope this helps, T.J. @ Atari Advantage ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 143 Tue Jan 05, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 12:30 EST Andrew, What TJ said . Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 144 Wed Jan 06, 1993 C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --] at 06:33 EST Andrew (and T.J.), I believe NEOAUTO.BAT will also run automatically if you specify the path to NEO_CLI.NPG under the "Batch File Interpreter" heading in NeoDesk's preferences menu, in case you don't want to load the CLI as an accessory... -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 145 Sat Jan 09, 1993 A.STUDER1 [Andrew] at 07:57 EST Thanks, guys. I used to run NEOCLI as a DA, but not anymore. So I'll try out the NPG parameters and see if they work. Next question, why can't I pass parameters like this: j:\bbs\bbs -B14400 The -B14400 isn't passed at all as if it was ignoring everything after the .ttp. ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 146 Sun Jan 10, 1993 T.GIRSCH [TJ@EuroGames] at 01:21 EST Andrew - What parameters is it supposed to take? How are you running the TTP? I need more specific information about how you're using it before I can posit a solution. - T.J. @ Atari Advantage ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 147 Sun Jan 10, 1993 A.STUDER1 [Andrew] at 23:13 EST I'm running my BBS program that takes -B with a baud rate, or a couple other switches. I just assumed that it would take them like any other CLI or DOS command line. programname parameters/switches example - "format b:" example bbs "-b19200 -pj:\bbs\" I'm trying to run the BBS from a batch file and the exact execution lines are: cd j:\bbs bbs -b19200 the BBS runs fine but the switch isn't on the command line! I can't find any mention of this in the docs, and the index leaves much to be desired! THERE ISN'T ONE! No big deal, it's still the greatest! ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 148 Sun Jan 10, 1993 T.GIRSCH [TJ@EuroGames] at 23:47 EST Andrew - Hmm... I'll have to experiment with passing parameters via a BATCH file. Is the BBS program the only one giving you troubles? I've successfully run ARC, LZH and ZIP (all of which take LOTS of parms) from within a BATCH file, no hassles. I noticed in your post that "cd j:\bbs" and "bbs -b19200" were on the same line. If they appear this way in the BATCH file, put them on separate lines. That will make the BAT file less likely to confuse the CLI. Dan, can you shed any light? - T.J. @ Atari Advantage ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 149 Mon Jan 11, 1993 R.NELSON123 [R.NELSON123] at 01:18 EST David I checked again and NEO CLI v2.0 loads with the ISAC but crashes the system whenever command is issued. I also ran a copy of CLI v1 I had a back up of and didn't experience the same problem in some limited experimentation. The problem with Neodesk and the ISAC is with window scrolling. Full page scrolls via slider clicks seem to be fine. However, single line scrolls via the arrow box do strange things and lock up the system or crash it entirely. Rick ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 150 Mon Jan 11, 1993 MYECK.WATERS [myeck] at 18:08 EST Hi Gribnifs; I recently added a Reflex hi-res monochrome graphics board to my Mega, so now I'm running at 800x592. Some programs refuse to run at "non-standard" resolutions, though, so the Reflex software provides two 640x400 emulation modes. Problem is, unless I "deactivate" the NeoDesk CLI (using a CPX that changes the extension to .ACX) first, the machine either seizes up before the NeoDesk desktop appears, or everything seems fine until I run a program (in which case everything seems fine until I'm on the program's main screen, and then the system won't respond to mouseclicks or keyclicks, although it will reboot with CTRL-ALT-DEL keys). Heard of this one? ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 151 Wed Jan 13, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 12:13 EST Myeck, Assuming the card's monochrome video memory is arranged the same way the ST normally does, the CLI should work. Are you saying that it crashes even if you don't open the CLI window? I hadn't heard of this before; the CLI doesn't really care what the screen size is, just that it is laid out the same as a normal ST screen. I dunno, you may be able to get around this with Neoesk 3.03 and version 2.1 of the CLI. Rick, Have you tried the CLI on a normal monitor? Does it work right? I am wondering if perhaps this is related to drawing the cursor on the ISAC, which the CLI does by writing directly to the screen. Does it work in duochrome mode on the ISAC? I suspect that if you go to NeoDesk 3.03 and version 2.1 of the CLI, all of your problems will disappear, since this way neither NeoDesk nor the CLI will access the screen memory directly. Andrew, It sounds as though the program just isn't interpreting the commands passed to it. I do know that there were one or two programs like this (I think it was Prospero's Pascal compiler at fault) that depended on a weird and undocumented behavior of the way the GEM desktop passes commands to a program. What I suggest you do is try opening the BBS program from NeoDesk and passing it the parameters. If this doesn't work, then there is something wrong with the way the program gets its parameters. If running it from NeoDesk works, then the only thing I can figure is that you have version 2.1 of the CLI, and the USE_ARGV option set to TRUE. Some programs do not like to see the '\x7f' as the first character of the commandline. (See the README file for more info on this) Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 153 Wed Jan 13, 1993 MYECK.WATERS [myeck] at 19:01 EST >GRIBNIF [Dan] at 12:13 EST > Assuming the card's monochrome video memory is arranged the same way the ST >normally does, the CLI should work. Are you saying that it crashes even if you >don't open the CLI window? Actually I've never gotten around to try opening up the CLI window - I just ended up turning everything off and trying to spot the one that caused the problems. Boggles my brain, fer sher. >I dunno, you may be able to get around this with Neoesk 3.03 >and version 2.1 of the CLI. It's a minor enough problem that I can wait. ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 155 Fri May 14, 1993 T.HORNIG [Thomas] at 03:56 EDT HI GUYS, I bought CLI today since I have to work a lot with DOS lately and I started to like the idea of having Batch files in my system. Unfortunately I have to admit I'm a little disappointed which could be plain ignorance on my part or it could be the program itself: To create a batch file I type text blabla.bat and i'm happening but how do I edit it let's say I want to make some changes do I have to go in a regular text editor or can I edit within CLI? I'm not able to run any programs from within a folder example D:\WRDPERF\WPMEDIUM (this is the path) WP (TRYING TO RUN WP.PRG) It does not work even if I type the ext. PRG Why is that can somebody explain how makemenu.bat works since i seem to be to dumn to figure it out myself. Thanks for your input Thomas ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 156 Sat May 15, 1993 MYECK.WATERS [myeck] at 12:27 EDT Thomas; Just write the .BAT file in an ordinary text editor. I use EdHak myself because it's a DA so it's always handy. To run WP, try these lines: cd d:\wrdperf\wpmedium wp There may well be a more elegant way of doing it, but it works. I've never really worked with menus because I haven't needed them. ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 157 Sat May 15, 1993 T.HORNIG [Thomas] at 21:41 EDT HI DAN, I am not able to launch a program from within CLI it tells me program not found even though I am in the right dir. I used Makemenu to create a menu batch file and it tells me exactly the same thing what am I doing wrong? Thomas ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 158 Sat May 15, 1993 T.HORNIG [Thomas] at 23:26 EDT HI DAN Here's an update on my situation: I can run a program in CLI only if it is in the ROOT dir of drive C: NOWHERE else how come???? Thomas ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 159 Mon May 17, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:58 EDT Thomas, Check the PATS= setting in the environment setup of NeoDesk. It should look something like this: PATH=.,c:\folder1,d:\folder2 and so on... The ".," at the beginning is needed. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 160 Tue May 18, 1993 T.HORNIG [Thomas] at 02:46 EDT Hi Al, You are amazing! I looked at my edit enviroment screen and I didn't have the ., following PATH=. After correcting this I tried again and IT WORKED Thanks a lot for your input. Thomas ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 161 Tue May 18, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:06 EDT Thomas, I wish my cat and dogs thought I was amazing. Right now they think I am ignoring their obvious hunger. And the parrot is telling me he wants me to change the channel on the TV. But I'm glad I was able to help. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 162 Tue May 18, 1993 G.KICHOK [Gerry K] at 19:57 EDT Thomas, unlike the DOS prompt under the IBM platform, where at the prompt: C:\FOLDER > PROGRAM will run the PROGRAM using NeoCLI you must enter the entire pathname, for example at the prompt: C:\FOLDER > C:\FOLDER\PROGRAM.TOS or TTP and the program will run inside the NeoCLI window, provided you do not unload NeoDesk to execute things. I have some automatic archive batch files that I just double click the bat file to backup certain files. For this you'll have to set up NeoDesk to execute batch files. Gerry K. - HBO-AUG Librarian Hamilton-Burlington-Oakville Atari User Group ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 163 Wed May 19, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 11:57 EDT Gerry, Acutally, the CLI will run the program when you type just the program name. You have to make sure your PATH and EXT variables are set correctly. (See Al's message). Thomas, I hope that everything goes well now that Al has helped you out with this. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 164 Thu May 20, 1993 T.HORNIG [Thomas] at 01:00 EDT Hi Dan, Yes as a matter of fact most functions work fine now, still I would love to have more DOS like commands added: A built in test editor at least the way EDLIN works, DATE: changes the date, TIME: changes time switches like /p = wait for any key before scrolling to next page | more same as above for TYPE command. A command that exits CLI after a batch file is finished, A PATH=/*.PRG command in the enviromental field that makes it possible to run a program in any folder or drive by just typing the name (kinda like the Path for batch files but more open) thanks for reading and considering Thomas ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 165 Thu May 20, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:51 EDT Thomas, Um, not a editor like Edlin, please! :) For a CLI that offers more power than the Neo CLI, Gribnif has distributed one called Tomshell on its STalker disk. The latest version is here on GEnie. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 166 Fri May 21, 1993 G.KICHOK [Gerry K] at 00:20 EDT Dan, But shouldn't the CLI run a program without the PATH variable if you are currently inside the folder where the program exists (Just like DOS)? Last Edited on 20/May/93 at 19:46 hrs Gerry Kichok Hamilton-Burlington-Oakville Atari User Group Librarian ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 167 Fri May 21, 1993 T.HORNIG [Thomas] at 02:26 EDT Al, I meant at least something like EDLIN since Edlin is not exactly happening. The Dos 5.0 Editor is way better (if you like DOS... NOT!) but it's helpful. I will check out Tomshell. Thomas ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 168 Fri May 21, 1993 T.GIRSCH [TJ @ S-Mart] at 04:44 EDT Thomas - DOS?!?!? Eeeewwwwwww! Yuk!! I'd prefer more UNIX-like commands. If you'd really like an EDLIN-like editor, I could probably write one in a week or less (for a modest SHAREWARE fee, of course, since you're the only one in the entire ST market who would ever use one) so let me know... - T.J. ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 169 Sat May 22, 1993 C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --] at 06:54 EDT Dan, Speaking of PATH, I've been wondering for quie a while if there is any limit on how long (how many characters) a PATH= statement can be (or, for that matter, ANY environmental variable line); in NeoDesk's dialog box, if my PATHs don't fit on one line, do I need to leave out some paths, continue my paths on the next line (as if it was a wrapped continuation of the first line), or start the next line with another PATH= - or will the second line negate the first line? Basically, if there IS a limit to the number of characters in a PATH statement on one line, is there ANY way of adding more paths than will fit on one line? If I edit the .INF file with a text editor with word wrap turned off, and the PATH line is longer than the allowed maximum, will it cause a crash or any other problem? And if there is a limit, is it the same for the NeoCLI as it is for NeoDesk? I've gone through the manuals several times and can't find any mention of this... Al, In what ways is Tomshell more powerful than NeoCLI? Just curious - NeoCLI is more than adequate for my humble needs... -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 170 Sat May 22, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 17:14 EDT T.J., GNOME is a dandy little editor, with Unix-like commands. And there is uEmacs, a la the CodeHeads. But you are right about Edlin! Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 171 Sat May 22, 1993 MYECK.WATERS [myeck] at 17:15 EDT >T.HORNIG [Thomas] at 01:00 EDT > >A command that exits CLI after a batch file is finished, - Try this: CLOSE > A PATH=/*.PRG command >in the enviromental field that makes it possible to run a program in any >folder or drive by just typing the name (kinda like the Path for batch files >but more open) I dunno - my PATH variable is BLANK and I've never had any problem running a program from the CLI as long as I was in the program's directory. ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 172 Sat May 22, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 19:29 EDT Chuck, Usually, the PATH is limited to 127 characters. I'm not sure of Neo is able to make that larger, but I doubt it. BTW, Here is a snippet from the TomShell docs, to help answer your other question: 0. 0.911g New features (in the order in which they were added) ---------------------- .1 Your command history buffer (last 20 commands) is saved when you "exit" TomShell, and reloaded the next time you run it. .2 A 'set font' command now has no effect in resolutions other than ST high; this rather than crashing or generally confusing the operating system. .3 '>' and '<' characters preceding filenames are ignored when TomShell is attempting filename completion. .4 System and user variables are expanded with the filename-complete (tab) key. For example, typing "$PATH" and a will show you the contents of your PATH variable. .5 The "path" variable is case-insensitive. This is mainly because while TomShell likes lower-case variable names, the standard name for the PATH variable is upper-case. So, both work. :-) .6 The 'mv' (move) command will try renaming files before copying/ deleting them. Since GEMDOS allows files to be 'renamed' into other places on the same drive, this greatly speeds up commands like "mv c:\fu\*.* c:\fu\bar\". .7 'cp' and 'mv' now work on batches of over 128 files. They already did, way back before cp/mv sorted their source files, but I had a momentary logic drop, and buggered it all up. :-) .8 A new system variable, 'flash', changes or disables cursor flashing. .9 Some internal cleanup was done, much of it in the external program execution section. 0.200! New features ------------------- .1 Finally, "ls" does good columns! The list goes down the first (left) column, down the second column, down the third column, and so on. This is much better for actually trying to find files. Maybe eventually this will be used in the "help" command as well. :-) .2 Two new variables have been implemented: pause and prompt. Check out the appropriate sections in the manual (search for "(NEW)"). I'm especially proud of "prompt". :-) Why are there so many happy faces here? :-) .3 Two more variables have been implemented: shortdir and width. Again, check for function later on. .4 With all these new variables, the "set" output got far too long to be useful (on a 25-line screen, all user variables were scrolled off the top by the system variables), so the system variables are hidden unless a "set s" command is given. Much nicer looking. .5 Small and probably unnoticed feature removed: "alias f" would do the "set f" output but preceded by "f= ". Rather insignificant, but worth fixing anyway. :-) 1. TomShell Commands -------------------- alias author cat cd cls condense cp dir echo exit help history input interact ls mkdir mv ren rm rmdir set system unalias unset verbatim word alias assign a complex meaning to a simple word. alias jim cat d:\stadel\money # `jim' now means `cat d:\...' alias jim # what is "jim" aliased as? alias # list all aliased words author display initial message about me and my address. author cat display a [text] file to the current output device. Can be redirected via >whatever cat file1 cat file1 file2 cd change current default (working) directory. Equivalent to "set cwd ..." cd e:\stadel\ cd \files\texts cd d:\ cls clear the screen using the VT52 "esc E" command. Can be redirected via >whatever cls condense take the spaces out of a variable's value. condense blah # blah="foo bar" => blah="foobar" cp copy files. If there is more than one argument, the last one is considered to be the destination directory or file. cp jimbob.doc joebob.asc # copy jimbob to joebob cp fubar.txt \texts\ # copy fubar.txt to \texts\ cp fubar1.txt fubar2.txt \texts\ cp fu*.doc \texts\ cp fu*.doc # copy to current dir. cp fubar.txt # copy to current dir. dir list files in current or given directory. A search mask or path may be given. Each file is displayed on a separate line, with its size, date, time, and status bits displayed in neat columns along with it. Subdirectories are denoted by a trailing "\". dir # list all files in cwd dir \texts\ # list all files in \texts\ dir \texts\*.doc dir *.txt *.doc g:\*.c echo display the arguments to the current output device. echo blah # output: blah echo # output: echo -n blah # output: blah echo this is a test echo -n this is a test echo -n $disk;echo k # output: (eg) 763k exit exit the current batch file or interactive session. exit exit 44 # sets $status to 44 and, if exiting TomShell completely, returns 44 to the calling program. (see also "system") help display a list of available commands and reserved variables. help history display the last twenty commands entered, with line numbers. These entries can be accessed with !# or !string (!# refers to the line with the given number attached to it, !string to the most recent command starting with "string"). history input take one line of text input from the current input device and place the received text in the given variable. input name input name aux: interact enter interactive mode until the command "exit" is issued. See "Modes of Operation" below for more details. ls display a short listing of files. Sytax is the same as "dir", but the files are listed in columns of filenames rather than with the size, date, time, etc. mkdir create a directory (folder) with the given name. mkdir tree mkdir c:\blah mkdir \test\phroo # note: \test will not be created # if it doesn't already exist mv identical to "cp" but, if a file is successfully copied, the original file will be deleted. [Starting in 0.911,] a "rename" will be attempted on each file first, in case GEMDOS allows it. This speeds up same-disk file moves. ren rename a file ren fubar.doc foobar.doc ren jimbob \texts\ # jimbob -> \texts\jimbob * Note: files can be renamed to anywhere on a logical drive without being copied or moved (renaming is faster), but not between drives. * Note: under TOS 1.4 or greater, folders can also be renamed. rm delete the specified file or files. rm fubar.txt rm *.* rm *.txt rmdir delete the specified directory (folder) rmdir test rmdir c:\temp * Note: trying to delete a non-empty directory will result in an error message. set change the value of a user or system variable, or, if the variable specified does not exist, create a new variable with the given information. set name Tom set verbosity 2 set name # display the contents of $name set # list all defined variables and # their contents system exit all levels of TomShell and return to the calling program. Differs from "exit" in that if it is called from a nested batch file or an "interact" system, the system will exit completely rather than going back one level. system unalias remove an alias entry from the list unalias v unset remove a variable entry from the list unset name verbatim display a file to the console. NOTE: This will ONLY output to the console and cannot be redirected. It provides the advantage of being able to view a file containing non-ASCII characters properly. Any character except for and will be output as some form of character. Great for looking at binary files (why?) verbatim tomshell.ttp word truncate the given variable to only one word (everything before the first space) word name # "Tom Clegg" -> "Tom" There is a LOT more... Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 173 Sat May 22, 1993 T.HORNIG [Thomas] at 20:17 EDT MYECK THAT'S THE PROBLEM! I don't want to be in the directory i"m running the program from I want to be able to start any program in any directory without having to go there. Thanks for the CLOSE tip I'll try it out in a minute. Thomas ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 174 Sat May 22, 1993 T.HORNIG [Thomas] at 20:59 EDT AL and once again you saved the day! I downloaded Gnome and it does exactly what I wanted when I talked about needing something like EDLIN Thanks a lot Thomas ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 175 Sun May 23, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 11:02 EDT Thomas, My pleasure. Hope you enjoy Gnome; it's a nifty little thing. Powerful, too. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 176 Tue May 25, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 12:59 EDT Gerry, If you are in the folder where a program exists, and you type its name, it will run even without a PATH variable being defined. Now, if you don't have a SUFF variable defined, it won't be able to run anything unless you give the file's extension. Chuck, You are limited to the 63 characters per variable you see in NeoDesk's Edit Environment dialog. There is no real limit as far as the operating system is concerned, but I had to stop somewhere. While you could make one or more of the variables longer than this by editing your INF file, this would really mess up the dialog if you ever tried to edit them within NeoDesk again. You should also know that there is a limit of 640 bytes for all env vars within NeoDesk. The NeoDesk CLI has no limit on the length of the PATH env var that gets passed to other programs, but it does have a limit of 80 bytes for its own "path" variable. Thomas, If the CLI allowed you to run any program just by typing its name without something like PATH to say where to look, it would have to recursively search all of the directories on all of your hard drive partitions every time you typed a command. Needless to say, this would be just a little slow. That is why DOS, Unix, and the NeoDesk CLI all use a list of PATHs. To have the CLI wait for a key before proceeding, use the MORE command. For example: more type foo.txt You can even put this into an alias if you like: alias type more type type foo.txt Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 177 Thu May 27, 1993 G.KICHOK [Gerry K] at 01:29 EDT Dan, > If you are in the folder where a program exists, and you type its > name, it will run even without a PATH variable being defined. No-way! I've tried this a million times and unless it something I've missed, I can't do it on my machine. I have NeoDesk set NOT to unload to EXECUTE and have the CLI set to NEO_CLI.NPG. Then I Double clicked on this BAT file, REDIRECT.BAT from a window on the NeoDeskTOP... REDIRECT.BAT is... set .output scr.txt set exit ... and the file SCR.TXT is... CLI Variables: 0 = C:\NEODESK3\NEO_CLI\REDIRECT.BAT 1 = 2 = 3 = 4 = 5 = 6 = 7 = 8 = 9 = # = 1 TOS_VER = 1.4 NEO_VER = 3.03 CLI_VER = 2.1 AT_NEO = FALSE *PROMPT = "$cwd " *TOS_WIND = TRUE *.INPUT = con: *.OUTPUT = C:\NEODESK3\NEO_CLI\SCR.TXT *.ERROR = con: *COL = 0 *ROW = 1 MAX_COL = 34 MAX_ROW = 17 FONT = 1 CHAR_W = 8 CHAR_H = 8 WINDOW = 8 40 280 144 MAX_WIND = 0 19 640 381 MOUSE_COL = 34 MOUSE_ROW = 17 MOUSE_BUT = 0 *DEBUG = FALSE LINE = 2 LASTLINE = 1 ERRNUM = 0 ERRMSG = ITEM = CWD = C:\NEODESK3\NEO_CLI\ *PATH = C:,C:\NEODESK3,C:\LOOKIT,F:\ARCHIVER *SUFF = prg,tos,ttp,bat,btp,npg,ntp,app *UPDT_NEO = FALSE *USE_ARGV = FALSE *WC_EXPAND = FALSE ...this returns me to the NeoDeskTOP and I double click on NEO_CLI.NPG in the same folder as REDIRECT.BAT. Which brings up the NEO_CLI window at the path C:\NEODESK3\NEO_CLI\ and I type REDIRECT.BAT and the message 'Command REDIRECT.BAT not found' appears. Same thing for ANY program unless I include the ENTIRE path, i.e. C:\NEODESK3\NEO_CLI\REDIRECT.BAT. NeoCLI is great otherwise. Last Edited on 27/May/93 at 00:15 hrs Gerry Kichok Hamilton-Burlington-Oakville Atari User Group Librarian ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 178 Thu Jun 03, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 13:39 EDT Gerry, Your PATH is not correct. It does not include the current directory, so the CLI never looks there. Either change your NEOAUTO.BAT file (if you use one with the CLI running as a DA), or edit the environmental variables in NeoDesk so that they say: PATH=,C:,C:\NEODESK3,C:\LOOKIT,F:\ARCHIVER The important thing is the first comma, which tells the CLI to look in the current directory first. If you wanted the current directory to be scanned somewhere in the middle: PATH=C:,C:\NEODESK3,,C:\LOOKIT,F:\ARCHIVER (the batch file command would actually be this:) set path 'C:,C:\\NEODESK3,,C:\\LOOKIT,F:\\ARCHIVER' Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 179 Sat Jun 05, 1993 G.KICHOK [Gerry K] at 02:26 EDT UUFFF! Thanks Dan, I think I was thrown by the example in set environment in NeoDesk PATH=a:\AUTO,c:\bin I never thought of including a COMMA although I found a leading SEMI-COLON mentioned in the NeoCLI manual. Last Edited on 05/June/93 at 01:14 hrs Gerry Kichok Hamilton-Burlington-Oakville Atari User Group Librarian ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 180 Sat Jul 17, 1993 J.KRZYSZTOW [JEFFREY] at 13:17 EDT Dan, Don't now if this problem has been reported. If you have WC_EXAPND set to TRUE and the wildcard expansion overflows the command line length, the "system" gets flacky. If you display the environment with the SET command, its messed up. It has all kinds of garbage. The CLI will also not be able to run any more programs. Jeffrey ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 181 Wed Jul 21, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 14:28 EDT Jeff, Hmmm! Thought that I had all the checks for that working. Do you also have USE_ARGV on? I'll have to check this out. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 182 Fri Jul 30, 1993 J.TOWLER1 [John] at 05:28 EDT Dan, I'm finally getting around to using ND CLI after owning it for ...how long? Anyways, I'm trying to create a RAM disk, load an alternate INF file, then copy some files to the RAM disk. The problem is getting the INF file to load. I've already found out that LOADINF will only work if the CLI is used as an accessory, not as a program. But even then, the batch file will copy the files, but not load the INF file. To make things more confusing, if the LOADINF command is in a file by itself, it works. Here are the files I've tried: LOADINF C:\NEODESK3\RAMDISKH.INF COPY D:\LANGUAGE\PASCAL\*.BIN F:\*.* COPY D:\LANGUAGE\PASCAL\*.OVL F:\*.* COPY D:\LANGUAGE\PASCAL\PROPAS.ERR F:\*.* EXIT and COPY D:\LANGUAGE\PASCAL\*.BIN F:\*.* COPY D:\LANGUAGE\PASCAL\*.OVL F:\*.* COPY D:\LANGUAGE\PASCAL\PROPAS.ERR F:\*.* LOADINF C:\NEODESK3\RAMDISKH.INF EXIT The single line (as a separate batch file): LOADINF C:\NEODESK3\RAMDISKH.INF does work to load the INF file. I at first tried using the batch as a NEOAUTO.BAT file, and thought maybe the problem was that NEODESK.EXE hadn't finished loading, so I changed the filename so it could be run after the desktop was loaded. Still no go. I'm using this setup to load the binaries and overlays for Prospero Pascal, which I'm learning, to a RAM disk. Oh, the irony. - John ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 183 Fri Jul 30, 1993 C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --] at 06:51 EDT Dan, Here's a little oddity I thought you might like to be aware of: On my system, I have the latest versions of NeoDesk3, STalker, and NeoCLI. Normally, because of the number of memory-consuming .ACCs I like to keep loaded, I don't run STalker and the NeoCLI (as accessories) at the same time - but when I run STalker, it is ALWAYS as an accessory. And I always run NeoDesk. Recently, I accidentally booted up into my STalker configuration with a live NEOAUTO.BAT file in my NeoDesk3 directory. (I also have a copy of NeoCLI configured as an .NPG and installed as the default CLI in the PATHS section under PREFERENCES.) The .BAT file ran, as it should, when the NeoDesk desktop loaded, and I then opened STalker. At this point I disovered that STalker _could_not_communicate_with_ my_modem_! Everything seemed to be fine otherwise, but the modem just seemed to be totally ignoring all input from STalker. To make a long story short, after much trial-and-error, I found that the CLI was causing the problem. I had never come across this problem before because I never run the CLI .ACC or any NEOAUTO.BAT file in my STalker boot configuration. Eventually, I discovered the cure: I have been using the AUXINIT.PRG in my auto folder to increase the serial port buffer to 16k, but CFG_CLI showed me that NeoCLI was ALSO configured to expand the serial buffer to 8k. Changing the CLI's buffer expansion setting to 0(zero)k solved the problem! Of course, with all the auto programs and accessories I use, there may have been other factors contributing to the situation, but it seems logical that two different programs trying to reconfigure the serial buffer could cause a conflict of some sort. Anyway, everything is fine now (once again!); I just thought I'd let you (and anyone reading this) know about it in case anyone else came across this problem and hadn't been able to figure it out. Thanks for excellent software AND support! -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 184 Thu Aug 05, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 16:54 EDT John T., That's a bug in 2.0/2.0a. It is fixed for 2.1. Since version 2.1 also has a few feature additions, it is available only through us for $10 + $3 S&H. Just send back your original CLI 2.0 disk. Chuck, Hmmm...I'll have to look into that. The CLI is supposed to check the current size of the serial port buffer (in your case, 16K) and not change it unless its config info says that it should be larger than the current size. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 185 Sat Aug 21, 1993 J.TOWLER1 [John] at 02:29 EDT Dan I checked and I am using CLI 2.1. My batch file using LOADINF is working now, but LOADINF wouldn't execute if it was followed by any other command, including EXIT. So I simply made LOADINF the last command in the file and manually close the CLI accessory. - John ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 186 Mon Aug 23, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 16:03 EDT Hmmm...I'll have to recheck that. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 187 Sat Oct 09, 1993 C.UNDERWOOD1 [CARSON] at 20:44 EDT I'm looking for a CLI that will do some specfic things. First, at present I'm using a floptical drive for my storage needs. I don't have a hard drive yet (that will come with the Falcon I hope to be purchasing this spring). So, I back up my flopticals using the largest RAM disk my system will handle, then insert my back up floptical & dump the contents of the RAM disk to it. I would like to automate this process. I'm using CodeKeys & Maxifile now to accomplish this. Here is exactly what I would like the CLI to do- 1.Set the archive bits on all files in C:\ to "on" w\o having to specify all the folders/paths 2.Run CODE_RAM.PRG & install an 1800K ramdisk as D:\ 3.Copy files to D:\ from C:\ (toggling the archive bits as the files are copied) until D:\ is filled up 4.Alert me to insert the back up floptical 5.Copy all the files from D:\ to C:\ (the back up floptical) 6.Alert me to insert the original floptical 7.Do 3.-6. (only copying files that have their bit "on") 8.Alert me that all files have been backed up Second, erase files with the extension *.AMF that have a date & time stamp later than specfic time (such as 30 minutes ago) Third, it seems all CLI's ignore files in folders unless you specify that path. For example, there is a shareware CLI that will set archive bits but, it needs to know all the paths. If you tell it to set the archive bit on all files in C:\, it will do so only on the files in the root directory & ignore all the files in the various folders. Fourth, be able to run any application that accepts a command line & GEM based programs. Can NeoDesk CLI do these things? I'm fairly new to the world of CLI's & am just starting to understand the power they have, especially when using BAT files. Carson ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 188 Sun Oct 10, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:42 EDT Carson, Why can't you back up your Flopticals to your floppy drive? Yu are going to a lot of trouble to do something that is very simple if you use a backup program or even something like MaxiFile to back up one drive to another. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 189 Mon Oct 11, 1993 C.UNDERWOOD1 [CARSON] at 08:44 EDT Al, I left out some other things I do to back up my flopticals. I currently use a CLI. I also use CodeCopy & Zip JR. I end up with a 7-8 meg Zip file. I spend less than a 1/2 hour in front of the computer when I do a full back up. Of course, the computer works about 2 hours making that huge zip file. The reason I do that is because, if I need to go & get a file from my back up, I run ST Zip. I personally wouldn't want to wade through a stack of floppies looking for a file. Also, I can back up 2-3 flopticals to one disk. I tried backing up to floppies & found I prefered doing it this way. As always, I appreciate your suggestions. The question remains. Can NeoDesk CLI do what I asked in message 187? Carson ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 190 Mon Oct 11, 1993 GRIBNIF-1 at 20:41 EDT Carson, The NeoDesk CLI can do all of those things, but doing it will require a fairly complex batch file. One of the most difficult things would be to delete based on timestamp and toggle archive bits of an arbitrary number of files nested in folders. It can be done, but it ain't pretty. In fact, I've been racking my brain trying to figure out the most efficient way. Probably the best thing would be this: ; Skeleton for operating on all files on a hard drive, starting at the ; current path. This example will print the creation dates and sizes of ; all of the files. This could be adapted to perform another operation ; on the files (like deleteing old ones, setting archive bits, etc.) ; Create a temporary file with a list of all items, starting at the current ; directory whereis *.* -> temp.foo ; Now, read from that file, one line at a time, performing the same ; operation on each item set .input temp.foo while %hasch getstr name ; You can really do anything here with $name. ; This might cause an error if $name is a really long path echo $name ~ ":" %date $name %size $name endwhile ; Clean up rm temp.foo By the way, just so you know, the CLI does require NeoDesk in order to run. I was not sure if this was something you already knew or not. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 191 Tue Oct 12, 1993 C.UNDERWOOD1 [CARSON] at 08:29 EDT Dan, Thanks for post. It looks like I may be purchasing NeoDesk, NeoDesk CLI, & Geneva in the near future. Carson ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 192 Tue Oct 12, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:48 EDT Carson, You never need to wade through a stack of floppies to find a file that you've backed up. A good backup program gives you a list of al the files, asks you to choose the one(s) you want, and then tells you to insert the right disk(s). I suggest you try out one of the excellent backup programs; you'll find that using STZip for two hours just to create a backup file is a huge waste of time. (It occurs to me that "huge" is the wrong word. It doesn't convey the real meaning of WAAAAAAAY TOOO MUCH time wasted.) Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 193 Wed Oct 13, 1993 C.UNDERWOOD1 [CARSON] at 10:16 EDT Al, I don't sit there for 2 hours while the back up floptical is getting zipped. I have a BAT file take care of it. I sleep. When I buy my Falcon, then I'm going to use the floptical to back up the hard drive (among other things). I will also be purchasing Diamond Back III (it will probably be out by then). What I do now is have a 1900K RAM disk. Maxifile fills it with files & toggles the archive bit. I switch flopticals & CodeCopy turns the whole RAM disk into a CCP file. I continue this until the floptical is backed up. The back up floptical has all the CCP files on it. Then I'm out of there. While I'm gone the BAT file moves each CCP file back into the RAM disk & zips it. Using CodeCopy really speeds things up. Believe me, this scenerio is not as much work as you think. The longest it has taken me is about 1/2 an hour (18 megs, 500 files) in front of the computer. After I have that full back up, I only back up new or modified files from then on. As we drift farther & farther off topic............ Carson ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 194 Thu Oct 14, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EDT Carson, I know what you are saying. I've done that sort of thing myself; I used to do all my own utility programming, and learned a lot. But a REAL backup program will make life easier. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 195 Sat Nov 20, 1993 C.UNDERWOOD1 [Carson] at 14:48 EST Can you run .PRG applications from within NeoDesk CLI (when it is run as a program of course)? Also can a NeoDesk CLI batch file be programmed to present you with a dialog box complete w/ "radio" buttons, then perform different tasks depending upon with button you select? Carson ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 196 Sun Nov 21, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:38 EST Carson, The NeoDesk CLI hooks into NeoDesk, and so, yes, it can run any application; all it really does is pass the RUN command on to NeoDesk (I'm simplifying this, and don't even HAVE the CLI, so I'm basing this on Dan Wilga's comments). Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 197 Mon Nov 22, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 14:02 EST Carson, What Al said . Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 198 Sun Feb 13, 1994 M.SQUIRE [Mike] at 17:44 EST I recently purchased NeoDesk CLI and have been modifying my system to incorporate it. One of the batch files provided in the disk's SAMPLES folder is called SETTINGS.BAT and it creates a batch file file called NEOAUTO.BAT. My question is how do I configure NeoDesk CLI to autoload this NEOAUTO.BAT whenever it's (i.e., NEO_CLI.{ACC NPG}) loaded into memory? I have set up NEO_CLI to run as a .NPG file on my system because it seems to handle batch files, which run .TOS and .TTP programs while executing, better when loaded as a .NPG file rather than as an .ACC. Also, if I am reading the manual correctly, it seems to suggest that if I boot up my system with Geneva, but not with NeoDesk, I will not be able to use NeoDesk CLI to run my batch files because NeoDesk CLI does not work (period) without NeoDesk installed. Is this correct? ... Mike Squire ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 199 Sun Feb 13, 1994 C.UNDERWOOD1 [Carson] at 21:23 EST Mike, You're right, NeoDesk CLI cannot run without NeoDesk. As for your other questions, someone else will have to help you. I don't have NeoDesk or NeoDesk CLI. I'm waiting for NeoDesk 4 to come out. Carson ------------ Category 17, Topic 5 Message 200 Mon Feb 14, 1994 T.GIRSCH [TJ @ S-Mart] at 00:50 EST Mike - Sorry, ya gotta run NeoDesk to run NeoDesk CLI. I imagine that CLI 'borrows' NeoDesks program launching routines, and is therefore quite dependant upon it. As for your settings (NEOAUTO.BAT), there are environmental variables which you should be able to define using NEODESK's "Edit Environment," which NeoDesk CLI should take advantage of. I've never quite gotten this to work, but my understanding is that it should, and in all honesty I've not spent much time on it. Consult your NeoDesk CLI manual to find which variables will help you. (I assume you are concerned with FONT size, WINDOW size, etc; CLI's defaults are pretty useless if you're running TOS programs.) I know that there are variables set up to define these. Another way you could do this is using the "setenv" command in your GEM.CNF to set up these variables the way you want them. - T.J. ------------