========================================================================= (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== Category 16, Topic 8 Message 1 Sat Feb 15, 1992 L.PECKHAM at 07:41 EST I see people have been speculating about a new version of OL -- I sure hope we see one! At the very least, some of the aggravations of the current version needed to be corrected -- the 100k limit, the inaability to _deselect_ one object when multiple items are selected, the extreme slowness in trying to select an object near the bottom of the 'stack' when there are a large number of ojects. And the inability to 'group' objects!!!!! Color support in OL II obviously would be a must, and also more types of dynamic gray scales and fountains -- one wants to be able to create circular shading by some means other than creating three dozen objects. -- Linda Peckham Electronic Spinster Graphics ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 2 Sat Feb 15, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 08:48 EST Sounds like a plan Linda. Have you been looking over my shoulder or what? :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 3 Sat Feb 15, 1992 R.NOAK at 14:57 EST Nathan, _Everything_ Linda said, but please leave the interface alone and add GEM and EPS output. Oh yes, and have it ready yesterday. ;-) Randy @ Southlake, Inc. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 4 Sat Feb 15, 1992 R.GRANT11 [Ron @ GXRSYS] at 16:20 EST Randy - I can't agree more. You obviously know more than a few graphics professionals to be able to describe their attitude towards computers so well! Linda - CTRL-SHFT-left click deselects individual objects in Outline Art. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 5 Sat Feb 15, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 17:54 EST 100K limit, Just Say No!! Get rid of that and I'll be happy.:-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 6 Sat Feb 15, 1992 L.PECKHAM at 18:31 EST Ron, _Now_ I find out! Thanks! -- Linda ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 7 Sun Feb 16, 1992 M.GATER [Mike Gater] at 06:55 EST Ron: CTRL-SHFT-left click: now if that only worked to deselect individual points we'd be in business.... Nathan: Looks like the O-line thermometer is indicating the beginning of another fever... Could it be that SL has not quenched the appetite of devoted Calamus users? Could it be that the vector module only serves as a catalyst for imagining what could be done with an OL2? Could it be that I'm getting carried away for no particular reason? Hmmmm. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 8 Mon Feb 17, 1992 R.NOAK at 00:32 EST Ron, Yeah, I hang at printshops a lot. Whenever I drop off or pick up, I pick up as much info as I can. It really helps to be able to talk to the printers in "their language". Probably one of the most well-kept secrets (to beginners) in the graphics art world is the amount of "borrowing" of ideas that goes on. You know, I see something you've done, "borrow" the parts I like from you, add some of my own, and, PRESTO, I've got my layout done. Just like a musician has to have a good ear, a good eye (knowing what is good and what isn't) really is indispensable in the graphic arts. Mike Gator, RE: O-Line thermometer IMHO, Outline has so much potential, it _could_ be the "Illustrator" of the Atari community. Nathan, GO FOR IT!!;-) Randy @ Southlake, Inc. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 9 Wed Feb 19, 1992 L.PECKHAM at 07:24 EST Here's some other stuff to add to OL2: 1. Keyboard equivalents for the menu and icon commands. 2. The user should be able to set the dimensions and units of the 'page' they are working on. 3. Have 'virtual' copies, such that if you make a change to one object (change in the fill value, or whatever), those changes will be done to all the virtual copies as well. 4. Variable line widths!!!!! The attributes dialog box should also have a setting for the line width. _Also_ should be able to control the gray scale/color of the line. 5. More settings for the calculator. Speaking of the last item, has anyone ever figured out a formula to cause rotation around an ellipse, instead of a circle? -- Linda Peckham Electronic Spinster Graphics ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 10 Wed Feb 19, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 09:02 EST Good suggestions Linda. Keep them coming please. Thanks. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 11 Thu Feb 20, 1992 L.PECKHAM at 07:37 EST Thanks. Also, when OL imports CVG, it would be nice if it would read the dimensions of the graphic and retain them, rather than blowing the graphic up to the size of the page. -- Linda ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 12 Sun Mar 08, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kene @ SFRT] at 21:08 EST How do I get extended characters into Outline? Ken Estes [SFRT-ASST] 18:07--Pacific Time Sunday, March 08, 1992 ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 13 Mon Mar 09, 1992 D.GORDON2 [DENNIS] at 01:04 EST One way is to use the ACCENT.PRG in the libraries which allows you to enter any ASCII slot by holding down the alt-key and entering a number on the keypad. Runs out of the auto folder and is really neat. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 14 Thu Mar 12, 1992 R.GILLIES at 01:38 EST I wuz looking for something just like that. Now, is there a way to print out a character to keystroke chart of a complete font. That is all 255 characters? ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 15 Thu Mar 12, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 07:55 EST R.Gillies, Yes. There are a couple of Calamus documents in the Library that will print out all 255 or so characters on a single sheet. One is named fontview I believe. Of course you will need Calamus not Outline. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 16 Thu Mar 12, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 07:59 EST Bob, I use the GetSet Calamus font page (don't remember the GEnie filename, but the page's title is FONTPAGE.CDK). Prints all the characters in your font in a box matrix which includes the system font characters as well as the ASCII codes. File is FONT_CDK.LZH, file #21928 uploaded by M.HOPWOOD. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 17 Thu Mar 12, 1992 L.ROCHA1 [Lou Rocha] at 08:26 EST R.GILLIES, I believe there are some charts in LIBRARY 30. I have a couple of versions pinned to my wall. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 18 Sun Mar 15, 1992 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 09:22 EST You will find the bulk of these messages in Library 30 when it gets uploaded today. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 19 Thu Apr 09, 1992 D.HARRIS8 [Don!] at 21:54 EDT Nathan, did I miss something, or is the Outline Art Contest still being judged? I don't remember seeing ANYTHING about it since the deadline was extended to FEB 28. Did someone win? Was it me 8^) ? Have I been in the O-zone? 8^) Don ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 20 Fri Apr 10, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 08:11 EDT The Contest is OVER. The Winners have not yet been announced. Stay tuned. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 21 Fri Apr 10, 1992 D.HARRIS8 [Don!] at 20:56 EDT Thanks, Nathan. Still looking for that Hard Drive, I guess...8^) Don ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 22 Wed Jun 10, 1992 L.PECKHAM at 07:12 EDT More suggestions for OL 2, mostly inspired by the way Avant Vektor does things: 1. Add ability to add points to an *existing* subpath. 2. Change bezier curve tangent points to line-segments and back again. 3. Multiple screens. 4. Print graphic! On a more comprehensive note, make OL 2 *modular*, ala Calamus SL. Let OL 2 become the center of a graphic workstation, as SL is for desktop publishing. For instance, for someone doing a lot of graphics work, it makes more sense to have the Speedline external module fit in with a graphics program than with SL. Perhaps OL2 could remain essentially a monochrome program, with color as an external module. There are times when raster graphics are a must -- why not a superset of CVG that allows two-layer images, one raster and one vector? Which would lead to having a raster-drawing external module. And *do* encourage the programmers to try and increase the speed of the program. OL, when it comes to selecting points and moving them, is tediously slow compared to AV. And when the 100k limit goes, with the potential for *very* complicated images, OL is going to need all the speed it can get. (After all, you can't sell only to TT owners.) -- Linda Peckham Electronic Spinster Graphics ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 23 Wed Jun 10, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 16:19 EDT Thank you for your comments Linda. I do appreciate them. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 24 Wed Jun 10, 1992 R.GILLIES at 23:10 EDT You can add add points to an existing subpath. Select the path, go to the path editor (the bottom half of icons on the tool panel), select a tangent node (the node with the path passing through it) with the point tool, select the hammer and "nail one". You have to select the point tool to pick up the added point and reposition it (it will be "hidden" on top of the tangent node you hammered). I hope I'm not wrong on this, it's been awhile since I was edition anything these days ...Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 25 Sat Jul 25, 1992 B.ROBINSON5 [BRIANMATE] at 21:09 EDT I have struck trouble with Outline-Art. After working for a couple of hours on some logos I suddely found that I could not save either OL. or CVG. I simply get a "I/O ERROR". I have cold booted and left the computer off for half an hour - I have reinstalled the program etc. from the original disk - to no avail. It will no longer save. The logos were all approx 100K and I did them in bits and pieces because the program bombed when they became larger than 80K. Has anyone had this problem and if so what have I corrupted or altered? Brian Robinson ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 26 Sat Jul 25, 1992 L.ROCHA1 [RTC~Sysop] at 23:00 EDT Brian, I was getting that kind of error in Calamus SL just before my hard drives crashed... 2 HD plus a Syquest. I believe your FATs are corrupted and I would suggest you start backing up! ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 27 Sat Jul 25, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 23:55 EDT Brian, There is a program called TOOL19 here online that will check the structure of your hard drive. Don't let it fix your hard drive, it corrupted mine worse.:-) I think it's only for ST's so I wasn't too surprised using on a TT. Your best bets to back up and zero that drive. It's also possible your hard drive is full. Outline does crash once you past a certain amount of memory. There were some things that happened to me drawing Grog. I think about 62K I couldn't open a frame and edit it without crashing. Around 80K I could no longer select a frame. I would save the scales seperate and merge them then I could still copy and move them long as I didn't select them. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 28 Sun Jul 26, 1992 D.STMARTIN [Dave St.] at 16:46 EDT Brian: I too have hit a similar problem. I've run CLEAN UP! and ST Tools 1.9 on my hard drive and there appears to be no problem on the hard drive. I believe the problem is with Outline Art but you got me as to what it is. . . ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 29 Mon Jul 27, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 00:29 EDT Dave, Have you tried disabling all your Auto programs and ACC's. Try running straight off the disk with nothing else enabled. Also try exporting a simple shape. Possible, it's just the file your trying to export. Do you have any hard drives hooked up that are turned off? Can't think of much else to try. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 30 Mon Jul 27, 1992 N.B.GARDNER [BRUCE] at 00:59 EDT Brian, I too had that problem. I found that I had recently moved my CRG files and OL files to a new directory. Outline was trying to save to a folder that didn't exist and was giving me an input or output error. Is it possible that this is your problem? Change your paths to the correct ones and save it in preferences then try again to export a CVG file. It should work. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 31 Wed Jul 29, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 20:28 EDT You might also consider emailing me the file and let me try and re-save it for you. I have a few extra tools handy and would be happy to assist you in this regard. Nathan @ DMC Publishing Inc. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 32 Wed Jul 29, 1992 P.MORALES1 [Pat] at 23:34 EDT Nathan, First of all, welcome back. In even my short about of time here you were seriously missed. (Not that everyone did not do an excellent job. But you certainly do add your own personal touch.) I'm new to Calamus since acquiring it through your trade-up offer. And after using it for a while and receiving my first news letter (excellent job by all by the way) I'm can't turn down your special Outline ART PROMOTION either. So, I _think_ I E-mailed you my order about a week ago. Being new to this type of support I'm not sure if: 1) The order was properly received, and 2) if you acknowledge orders received via E-mail. Any insight on proper protocol would be sincerely appreciated. Thanks, Pat ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 33 Thu Jul 30, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 09:10 EDT Pat, your order was received and processed and has left for you. The normal concept is to acknowledge receipt of every order BUT I wasn't here and the staff literally just listed the orders and got offline. My apologies. I have now slapped them soundly. :-) Nathan @ DMC Publishing, Inc. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 34 Thu Jul 30, 1992 LYRE at 13:24 EDT Hi, I have Outline Art but have recently taken a look at the tms Cranach Studio. I'm a little confused. Where do these programs differ? I must admit that while I own Calamus, Outline Art and the Font Editor, that I haven't used them very much. My need for them fell through. Although I will undoubtedly use them, I was wondering if you can clarify things for me. I figure it's time to start keeping abreast of what is happening. :) Lyre ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 35 Thu Jul 30, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 20:48 EDT Outline Art is a great program for vector based text manipulation and vector based drawing. Some classic examples are available for downloading in the ISD library #30. Search by contest and check out the contest winners in the latest Calamus contest. TMS Cranach Studio has not yet been released, waiting for a very very very overdue manual. (sigh) It is a high end photo retouching and electronic imaging program that is as good as it gets in esoteric control for the serious professional. Outline Art is not the same type of program at all. Again, their are text files in the library listing the specs of both programs. Nathan @ DMC Publishing ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 36 Thu Jul 30, 1992 P.MORALES1 [Pat] at 22:20 EDT Nathan, Thank-you for the response, quick as always. I wasn't trying to get anyone's hand(s) slapped, only trying to learn the correct procedure. I know that I'm in the wrong place, but while I'm here just a quick word about Calamus. In the short time I've had it it's quickly becoming my first choice. Can my purchase of SL be that far off? Thank-you, once again! Pat ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 37 Sun Aug 02, 1992 B.ROBINSON5 [BRIANMATE] at 13:41 EDT Thanks guys, I zeroed the partition and am back in business. Every thing works just fine. Would be a help if a larger file could be manipulated, tho'. I make my logos in small OL files and then merge them at the end, but, once merged they become the "untouchables". Some times my system just goes back to the desktop and sometimes it locks up forcing a reboot. Maybe it will be improved in the next upgrade, which I hear is nearly done. I'm not knocking the program, mind you, it's a beauty and worth its weight in gold. One thing that I have found that helps if you have 2.06 is to make a bare DTP INF file with just Calamus, Outline-art, Touch-up, SLM804, Jims board etc. and boot with the control key and then read and install the bare INF file and select whatever you are working with. This sure works good with memory grabbing PRGS. Brian Robinson ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 38 Sun Aug 02, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 15:49 EDT Thanks for the tip Brian. I've never tried that. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 39 Mon Aug 03, 1992 P.MORALES1 [Pat] at 21:18 EDT Nathan, I feel like the last kid on the block to discover the greatest toy in town. I just received Outline Art. Great service, as always. So far, the program appears better than I had hoped. I keep wondering why I waited so long. I can see that the learning curve is going to take some effort to take advantage of all its capabilities. So, I better get started. I can see that I'm going to be a DMC convert before too much longer. Thank-you, for the continuing support. Pat ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 40 Mon Aug 03, 1992 L.ROCHA1 [RTC~Sysop] at 21:52 EDT Pat, do you have the GUuide to Desktop Publishing. If I recall, it was the book I used to learn Outline Art. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 41 Mon Aug 03, 1992 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 22:12 EDT Hi All, I am a brand new O-Line user with a few questions for all of you seasoned pros. I am using only the fonts supplied with the program. When I attempt to create an outline of the font with a white (0% grey) fill, certain letters such as "A", "W", etc. have lines overlaping within the letters themselves. This is kind of ugly, and certainly unusable for professional purposes. Is there a work around to this problem? Does this occur with all fonts? BTW, I do not use Calamus, I have been exporting these graphics to Arabesque or Pagestream for printout, with the same results. Also, are there any books specifically written for O-Line? I find the manual a little vague and I would love more tutorials. Any comments or help would be truly appreciated. Sincerely, Rob ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 42 Mon Aug 03, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 22:22 EDT Pat, The writeup on OutLine Art in __The Guide to Calamus DTP__ is very good. Doesn't take long to get through ... but seems to cover the basics pretty well. -- Harry ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 43 Tue Aug 04, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 20:43 EDT The best tutorial on Outline Art is contained within the Guide to Calamus Desktop Publishing which is a 250 page book with hints, tips and tutorials that retails for US $29.95 from your local Dealer or directly from us. The unsightly lines appear when vector graphic paths overlap. This used to be very prevalent once but now most fonts are Outline Art friendly per se as are all of the AGFA Compugraphic fonts as well as fonts from many of the third party companies. This can easily be corrected if you have any of the Font Editors on any of the fonts that you use. Nathan @ DMC Publishing ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 44 Tue Aug 04, 1992 P.MORALES1 [Pat] at 21:11 EDT L.Rocha1, Thanks for the tip. Yes, I have the book. I read the information on Calamus completely when I got it. But in my mental state of overload, I completely missed or forgot about the OA appendix. Thank-you, again. It is appreciated. Pat ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 45 Tue Aug 04, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 21:30 EDT Rob, thats because you have Outline selected on a font thats poorly constructed. It's not Outline Happy.:-) Your seeing where the person who created the font let the lines cross over. If you want to hand edit the font you can change it to an Object by picking the OBJ Icon. I think it says Transform Text to Object? Sometimes it's easier to just draw a new letter right over the top of the old one, instead of fixing the defective one. Then clip it to the clipboard and place it back in the frame with the rest of them. A better way would be to pick up the Calamus Font Editor and fix the offending letter for good (if the font will load into it). Either that or buy some Cherry fonts. It's not an Outline Problem it's the font's fault. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 46 Wed Aug 05, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 18:14 EDT Rob, early in the Calamus epoch (Nathan, we grow gray and bent waitng betimes for thy update tablets - when wilst thou lead us to the PromiseLan?) some of the fonts were drawn in overlapping segments. That's what you're seeing in the supplied fonts. Any of the fonts uploaded to GEnie after, say, 1990 should be drawn in true outline and you won't see any overlaps. And there are a LOT of pd and shareware Calamus fonts here. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 47 Wed Aug 05, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 20:15 EDT Methinks thou doest protest verily in truth. Sigh. This business certainly has its moments. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 48 Wed Aug 05, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 23:47 EDT Nathan forgets how far he's brought us. Before O_Line arrived the overlaps were just fine. The Calamus versions before 1.09N could only print the letters with 100% black fill, so none of that showed. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 49 Thu Aug 06, 1992 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 23:00 EDT Hi All, I am a brand new O-Line user with a few questions for all of you seasoned pros. I am using only the fonts supplied with the program. When I attempt to create an outline of the font with a white (0% grey) fill, certain letters such as "A", "W", etc. have lines overlaping within the letters themselves. This is kind of ugly, and certainly unusable for professional purposes. Is there a work around to this problem? Does this occur with all fonts? BTW, I do not use Calamus, I have been exporting these graphics to Arabesque or Pagestream for printout, with the same results. Also, are there any books specifically written for O-Line? I find the manual a little vague and I would love more tutorials. Any comments or help would be truly appreciated. Sincerely, Rob ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 50 Fri Aug 07, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 18:49 EDT Rob that sounds familiar...:-) Read about the last 10 or so messages. It's mainly due to the fonts being made that way. You can turn them into an Obj and edit them yourself or use a font thats correctly made. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 51 Fri Aug 07, 1992 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 21:05 EDT Hello, Thanks for all of the replies concerning that funky text overlap problem. I guess I'll just have to get some more fonts;-) Anyway I really enjoy the program. Thanks again for the very prompt help Rob ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 52 Tue Aug 11, 1992 S.GOLD6 [NorthStar] at 20:01 EDT I'm looking for 2 pieces of CLIPART. The 1st is a Theatre Ticket, the 2nd is the Greek Masks of Comedy and Tradgedy. - Steve ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 53 Wed Aug 19, 1992 ISD [Mario] at 00:21 EDT As soon as I get some time I will be cleaning up the Times and Swiss fonts overlap problem, However the Fonts you can get from our CG collection are designed with no overlaps and therefore are well suited for use in Outline. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 54 Sun Sep 20, 1992 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 23:27 EDT Hi Rob, Give me a call if you need some help with Outline Art give me a call. I've been using the program for a long time and I feel pretty comfortable with it. Steve Blackburn ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 55 Mon Sep 21, 1992 CAPT.SPOCK [BlueMango] at 20:16 EDT Hi! I had a question....I am in need of having the Cadillac logo scanned in and made an Outline Art object....can anyone help? My specific need for this is as follows: I am the newsletter editor for my school's business senate, and our logo is a circle with a mortarboard in the center, and around the outside of the circle is a "wreath" almost exactly like the stuff around the Cadillac symbol. When our past president used the school scanner to import the logo as a GIF, everything but the wreath part came out okay. I've converted the GIF into an IMG (I was using 1.09N at the time), and massaged what I can...but the wreath still looks yucky. I figured that the Cad logo would be easiest for someone to find and scan in....that's why I'm requesting it. What I would like to do (please let me know if this isn't the best way to do this) is use O_Line to paste the Cadillac wreath over the scummy wreath around our logo. Can anyone help? Thanks.... :) Kerm (oops) KerIm ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 56 Tue Sep 22, 1992 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 00:11 EDT Hi All, I am using O-line art and trying to get the Mixed Circular Text effect as shown on page 80 of the manual. However, I don't want different sized text as shown, I want it all the same size and with consistent letter spacing on the top and bottom frames. Every time I try, the top and bottom circles have uneven letter spacing and just don't quite line up properly. Is there an exact way to figure out how to make a perfect circle of mixed circular text? Also, I don't understand how to align and center objects. Can anyone help with this? I am not too familiar with the program so please be as precise as possible in your hints:-) Thanks in advance--Rob ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 57 Tue Sep 22, 1992 POTECHIN [ Nathan] at 09:58 EDT Hiya Kermie. Name change? :-) Sorry Kerim, couldn't resist. :-) I got this instant vision of this wee green thing hopping about. Do you have the original GIF perchance? If so, email it to me. I don't have a Cadillac logo handy but I do have a 600 dpi scanner. If you don't get a response, send me a logo and I'll scan it in for you. Rob: This perhaps one of the hardest things to achieve in Outline if you don't know how to do it. First of all if you want all the text to go around in one sentence, this is easy. Assuming you want a perfect circle, create a perfect square using the snaps. Then open the text dialog box, load in your font of choice and type in the text. Set your angle to 180 by 180, then click on OK to complete this. However if you want your text to be in one direction on the top and another on the bottom then create a perfect square. set your angle to 0- 180 and click on OK. Once your text is in place then create a square that completely surrounds the first frame. This second frame should contain the letters in the first and should be offset an exact amount. It is important to remember that in both cases, the text should be set to "Fixed F-Size" if you wish the text to be identical. The second text frame should then be set to Inner Circle, where the first is Outer Circle. The second frame's angle should then be in opposition to the first, i.e.; 180-0. Another way to do this is to create 2 semi-circular text paths and to have them in opposition. The next thing to consider is that the text should be set to the following settings; Centre Justified, Fixed F-Size. Make the top path smaller in an equal dimension taking into account the size of the font and enlarging the bottom circle accordingly. Please let us know your progress Rob. Nathan @ DMC Publishing ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 58 Tue Sep 22, 1992 S.KALEITA [SAK] at 20:35 EDT Rob... to get the same size font all you need to do is select fixed font size and make sure that the size is the same for the outer circle and the inner circle. As far as the letter spacing, that all dedends on weather you selected CENTRED TEXT or ALIGNED. Centered text will give you the normal kerning as if the text was on a straight line, however on your inner circle the corners of the letters will probably overlap; in that case you will have to adjust the letter spacing to look the same as the outer circle spacing. You can try measuring it with a ruler when in 100% zoom. All these settings are explained on pages 22-26. The best set up that I've come up with is... 1).set up a 10mm grid, snap to grid. 2).With the circular text icon selected, create a frame 80mm by 80mm 3).Load your font, type in your text and set the font size to fixed at 16mm. Make sure that you also select outer circle and your degrees are correct. Select OK 4).Create another circular text frame 100mm by 100mm, enter your text, make sure that is still a fixed font at 16mm, select inner circle with the correct degrees, select OK. This frame should be placed directly centered on top of the other frame, It should be exactly 10mm larger all the way around. All this could be accomplished also by entering the frame coordinates with in the circular text dialog box. If your text string is to long to fit within the circle at 16mm font size, the program will automatically reduce to the maximun size that will fit. This will screw up all your alining. In this case, you should enlarge both text frames by 10 or 20mm then recalculate the circular text and make sure that they are set at 16mm. The combination of a 16mm font and 20mm difference in frame sizes, seems to work pretty good for me. I saved this arrangement as an OL file so next time all I have to do is load it and change to what ever font I want. And with the 10mm grid set, it's very easy to snap circular paths inside and outside the circular text. BlueMango...With some time and patients you could create the wreath in OutLine Art otherwise you need to find someone who has an auto tracer that saves in CVG format or get Calamus SL with the auto tracer. The simplest and least expensive way would be to stick to IMG's and paste everything up in Calamus and get a better peice of art of your wreath and rescan it. If you have Touch- UP , MVG graphica, Seurat or even Degas you can really fix up the scanned image, If you have EASY DRAW supercharge you can hand vectorize it. Load in your scanned image and hand trace it into a GEM metafile, then load it into Calamus. Hope this helps. SAK. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 59 Tue Sep 22, 1992 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 23:12 EDT Steve and Nathan, Thanks for your prompt and very helpful replies regarding my circular text problem in O-Line art. Steve, I tried your formula and the result was absolutely perfect--Thank you both!! Now, another problem, I can't seem to figure out how to allign 2 objects with each other, or to center them on the page, or move to the top margin, etc... I tried to use some of the position buttons, but to no avail. Some of the text instructions (on screen) for the position buttons are in German, which is confusing. Can someone offer some help with this problem? Thank you--Rob ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 60 Wed Sep 23, 1992 CAPT.SPOCK [BlueMango] at 03:16 EDT All... Thanks! I think the easiest thing for the wreath, as I don't have any sort of decent drawing program (try NEOchrome v0.9 on for size), would be for me to utilize Nathan's suggestion...THANKS! I'll send you the GIF along with a CDK showing my "massaged" version of the logo. If nothing else would work, I'll mail (yuck...mail with real, live postal workers! ) you the logo for scanning....:) And, I know I sent mail to Nathan, as well as posted it elsewhere, but my need is great.....can anyone help me with creating the "marble" look which Mario so talentedly put on the original SL advertisement? My _boss_ wants to have a marble look in our new company sales material, and it's my job to do it. HELP! Kerim PS: Yes, I know I need a real graphics program.... PPS: Cute, Nathan...real cute (re: Kermie...although I am friends with Toad in Maryland...) ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 61 Wed Sep 23, 1992 POTECHIN [ Nathan] at 09:46 EDT The MEZZOTINT that we used was simply a scanned pattern. You can actually purchase MEZZOTINTS. Look for mail Kerim. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 62 Sat Sep 26, 1992 BHARTSHORNE at 00:41 EDT Nathan, any news on version 2 of OArt? Bill ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 63 Sat Sep 26, 1992 POTECHIN [ Nathan] at 16:38 EDT No. I'll ask next week. I should have had a working version by now. I had a beta months ago. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 64 Sun Sep 27, 1992 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 12:46 EDT Hi All, I have created a CVG in O-Line art that contains a gradient fill. I want to output to a linotronic, but with control over the screen frequency (LPI). Does convert 2x offer this feature? Would I be better off importing into Pagestream and setting LPI from there? I have heard that Pagestream does not handle O-Lines fills very well, but does this apply to Linotronic postscript output as well? Thanks in Advance for your help Rob ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 65 Sun Sep 27, 1992 L.ROCHA1 [Lou (Sysop)] at 14:29 EDT Rob, the fine tuning of LPI is a feature handled by the Raster Generator module in Calamus SL. If you don't own SL, then I am not sure how you could control this item in OA. However, I believe you could import the CVG into SL, alter the raster settings and then export the file to CVG using the Dataformer module. I if you email the file and your desired settings, I will attempt this for you. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 66 Sun Sep 27, 1992 ISD [Mario] at 22:02 EDT I am afraid that there is no real way to take a cvg apply the raster generator and than save it out as a cvg using dataformer The problem here is that you require the level of control that SL gives you a output. However the resultant file from the CONVERT2X utility may be imported into a postscript based application and have screening values applied to it. The accuracy of the screen angles may not be as definable as the raster generator allows in SL but it may suffice. Mario @ DMC Publishing ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 67 Mon Sep 28, 1992 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 22:00 EDT Lou & Mario, Thank you both for your prompt replies. Sounds as if my best option is to convert the CVG to postscript and then import into Pagestream and set the frequency levels from there. I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks--Rob ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 68 Tue Sep 29, 1992 POTECHIN [ Nathan] at 19:53 EDT Rob ... Leave the Calamus Vector Graphic in its native CVG file format. Almost every Atari graphic related program in the world takes CVG these days, including Pagestream. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 69 Sun Oct 11, 1992 CAPT.SPOCK [Kerim] at 15:55 EDT HELP! I need some clarification on how to achieve a chromium-text effect. I am attempting to follow the tutorial in the manual (as my desired effect is similar to the "THE" that is on page 111 in the manual, the only difference being that I don't want my text projected). My problem comes from step 3 in the tutorial (pg 111). I conceptually understand that my dynamic greyscale will be placed behind the text that I have. My problem is that I cannot get transparent text in an opaque box. Following the tutorial, I created a frame with my text in it and followed the instructions for putting the text in perspective (only I didn't create a projected text effect; just normal text placed onto a control path). That went fine, and I got outlined, transparent text (which is what I wanted). I then followed step 2 and converted the outline text to a path object. Still no problems. Step 3 is the killer, as the manual says "Select 'THE.' Create a frame and call the Path/Control Path dialogue box." WHAT is this talking about? I can't select a frame _AND_ create a frame at the same time. If I simply select the "THE" frame and then call the Path/Control Path dialogue box, and then follow step 4 (de-selecting lines, selecting grey and entering a value of 50%), I get 50% grey text. I have played around with this to no avail. I just cannot get the result that the manual shows, which would be transparent text in an opaque frame (meaning everything in the frame BUT the text is opaque, thus allowing me to place my dynamic greyscale behind the text and achieve a chromium effect only inside the outline of the text). I have also tried creating another frame, thinking that step 3 is telling me to have 2 frames: one with the text, another which is 50% grey. This _really_ doesn't work, as when I do that I still have the problem that EITHER the dynamic greyscale will be behind the text OR the 50% grey frame will be behind the text. In both situations, I wind up having transparent, outlined text on top of some form of grey. The problem is that you can see the _whole_ grey or dynamic greyscale frame...it doesn't peek through the letters of the text like the example in the manual. HELP! HELP! HELP!!! Kerim *s ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 70 Sun Oct 11, 1992 S.SAMUELS [ICE CREAM] at 17:08 EDT Kerim, Let's see if just the basic concept will help you. What you want to end up with is a single object that has its largest, outer shape (say a rectangle) with its path direction running counter clockwise AND has its subpaths (in this case your letter forms) inside its perimeter with their path direction running clockwise. Then make this entire object 'white', that is 0% fill. All will be well except for subpaths that inside other subpaths, like the o inside the O. That also needs to be white, so it's direction has to be counterclockwise. Get the idea? Each time a subpath is used inside another path or subpath, the path direction has to change. Further, I mention starting with counterclockwise as the outermost path directions since this is the rule for postscript. Therefore, if you ever wanted to convert your art work to PS, all would be in order. In Calamus CVG, the outermost path can be either direction, as long as the subpaths keep reversing directions. Try a simple square inside a larger square to get the idea. If you're still lost, just write again! Best, ice cream ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 71 Sun Oct 11, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 17:36 EDT Kerim, it's fairly simple it's just the manual thats complex.:-) All you have to do is click on your "THE" frame until it's selected. Then go down in the bottom half of the Icons and click on the Hammer for adding points. You'll notice your "THE" will change into the actual points for editing. Now all you have to do is draw a box around all your letters using the line and tool. You might want to turn snap on so you get a nice even box if you want it. Now when you click on the Modify Object Dialogue and set it to 100 greyscale. This will make it black so you can see if it worked. If you got it first try then set it back to 0 and that will give you a white mask of your text. Now you can put this mask over whatever you wish and it will show through the letters. If this doesn't work correctly you may need to change the direction of your letters. Just select the frame again and go to the bottom half of the Icon screen and click something. This time you want to use Alternate Direction of Subpath and click it on the letter that doesn't show through or if you got a solid black square you can change the outside squares direction. Imagine a donut... Lets say you create an object that has an outside circle drawn in a counterclockwise direction and inside circle drawn in the same direction. Then you make it black. You'll have a disk even though you wanted a donut becuase both paths where created in the same direction. Now in order to make a donut you would change one of your circles so that it path is drawn in a clockwise direction. This is what Alternate Direction of Subpath does. Once they travel in opposite directions you'll get a donut. This is what your trying to do with your text. You want the letters drawn in the opposite direction of the outside box you added to create a donut where your letters make up the hole. Then when you set to white and place it over another object that will show through the hole. Does that help? I know how to do it, I just can't explain it very well.:- ) ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 72 Mon Oct 12, 1992 CAPT.SPOCK [Kerim] at 02:18 EDT Joey & Stephen..... *** THANK YOU *** for the help! Stephen, the file you sent me was exactly the effect I was trying to accomplish. And Joey, your explaination was actually pretty good...I guess we must think alike, as when I was reading what you said and playing with O_Line at the same time, it made perfect sense. I have been able to achieve what I wanted to do, and you were both right...it _is_ rather easy. So, _why_ does the manual make everything so complicated??? Oh well...Deutschland Uber Alis.... Kerim ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 73 Mon Oct 12, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 05:52 EDT Glad you got it working! ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 74 Tue Oct 13, 1992 POTECHIN [ Nathan] at 11:42 EDT My thanks to Stephen and Joey. Thank you. :-) No argument re: original Outline Art manual. We do them better now. :-) Glad you got it figured out Kerim. Nathan @ DMC Publishing ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 75 Tue Oct 27, 1992 S.KALEITA [SAK] at 08:48 EST Just wondering if all the other OutLine Art Contest winners have received their Gift of time from Genie and there subscription to Atari Explorer. I haven't...SAK ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 76 Tue Oct 27, 1992 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 18:08 EST Steve ... send me email with your USER ID please, minus the password and I'll get that gift of time and subscription to Explorer taken care of immediately. My apologies for the delay. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 77 Wed Oct 28, 1992 R.COBBLE1 [ROD] at 19:12 EST I tried to post in the DYNACADD topic and it said. Can't post in a closed topic?????? Where do I get Dynacadd support? I am trying to find out the latest version. Thanks, Rod ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 78 Wed Oct 28, 1992 J.DERNAR at 21:12 EST Rod, find Dynacadd in 7,7 though not much activity there. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 79 Thu Oct 29, 1992 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 00:21 EST The DynaCADD Topic is located now in Category 7 as was mentioned. David stops by daily and will be happy to answer any questions that you might have. Type SET 7 to get to Category 7 and then REP 7 to post a message. Ditek International handles DynaCADD directly now. Nathan @ DMC Publishing ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 82 Tue Nov 10, 1992 BHARTSHORNE at 23:18 EST Nathan, I support and would subscribe to the newsletter, but only if there was sufficient reason to believe it would succeed-I have been burned over and over by subscriptions to Atari publications that "took the money and ran", whatever the excuses. Maybe some serious thoughts need to be taken before DMC jumps into this. While jokes may be made about it cutting into shipping time or new release information (ahem!) it takes a lot of time-and as they say time is money.....:>) Bill ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 83 Wed Nov 11, 1992 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 12:13 EST I agree entirely Bill. There will be no hasty decisions made. Nathan ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 84 Thu Nov 12, 1992 J.P.C. at 20:06 EST Bill: I for one would not feel the least bit worrysome if DMC began publishing a subscription newsletter. Nathan and his gang at DMC (ISD) have never, NEVER let anyone down, as far as I'm concerned. They are one of the very FEW in the ATARI-related industry who have practiced good business. HATS OFF TO YOU NATHAN (and gang)!! ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 85 Thu Nov 12, 1992 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 23:20 EST Wow, thank you. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 86 Sun Nov 22, 1992 MIKE.KELLER [ST Aladdin] at 19:51 EDT Hi, I downloaded the Outline Art demo, but when I fire up OLDEMO.PRG, I get an alert box with "File OLDEMO.RSC?" in it. I click and back to the desk. I have a folder with both OLDEMO.PRG and OLDEMO.RSC, along with all the other stuff in the archive. What's up? mike.k ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 87 Mon Nov 23, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 02:13 EST Mike, Disable Warp 9 before you boot-up. Did I guess right?:-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 88 Mon Nov 23, 1992 MIKE.KELLER [ST Aladdin] at 23:48 EDT Well, I haven't tried your answer yet, but I DO use Warp 9. Disable Warp 9....such a drag. mike.k ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 89 Fri Nov 27, 1992 K.SPRINGER1 [CHIEF] at 23:20 EST I want to stretch some text with the vertical edges straight, the top or the text straight horizontally, but the bottom of the text curved up. Every text path I have created results in curved vertical components to the letters, except for the very left and right edge, and the exact center The paths I have tried all start from the upper left corner, go right, then down, then left, they up to starting point. L, R, and top components are straight lines, bottom is a bezier. The I stretched the bezier to a curve, numbered the corners, upper right being two, and clicked on control path. If the path is large enough, and the curved "bent" enough, you will note the the vertical lines of the path bend outward as they go from top to bottom. 'Twould seem the programmers are locating the bottom ends of the control path verticals equidistant along the bezier curve, rather than at an intersection point on the bezier that would result in the vertical path lines being perpendicular to the top horizontal line of the path. Resulting text placed on the path has the same result. I want the vertical edges of all my text to be straight vertically. If it can't be done on OL, suggestions accepted for other methods or software to accomplish this effect, resulting image desired to be vector graphics, rather than bit mapped. Thanks Ken ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 90 Sat Nov 28, 1992 D.GORDON2 [DENNIS] at 01:34 EST Ken, I don't know if it's exactly what you're looking for, but take a peek at Bob Gillies file PATHS_01.ARC (#15331) in the library. It describes a technique for curving the top or bottom of a line of text while keeping the other side straight. Hope this helps... ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 91 Sat Nov 28, 1992 K.SPRINGER1 [CHIEF] at 08:31 EST DENNIS - Thanks, I'll dnld and see what it says Ken ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 92 Sat Nov 28, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 12:26 EDT Ken, I don't know if this will help, but I have done what you are asking with OL. I made an object with a curved bottom and then mapped the letters onto the object. (That is if I remember correctly.) Actually mine was slightly more complex because the first and last letter had to be full height so my object has a short straight section on each side of the bottom. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 93 Sat Nov 28, 1992 K.SPRINGER1 [CHIEF] at 14:41 EST DENNIS - BINGO!! With slightly different settings, got exactly what I wanted. Thanks a bunch! Ken ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 94 Sun Nov 29, 1992 D.GORDON2 [DENNIS] at 02:57 EST Well you're welcome a bunch. It's always good to find what you need, when you need it :-).... ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 95 Tue Dec 01, 1992 ISD [Mario] at 20:17 EST Ken, you can also try adjusting by hand the point to a predefined curve.... Mario @ DMC Publishing ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 96 Wed Dec 02, 1992 K.SPRINGER1 [CHIEF] at 01:05 EST Mario -- >Ken, you can also try adjusting by hand the point to a predefined curve.... Could I prevail upon you to be a little more detailed on what you're suggesting? Ignorance at work here. Thanks. Ken ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 97 Wed Dec 02, 1992 ISD [Mario] at 20:16 EST Ken, sorry about that what i meant was; convert the text to a path object. then draw a guide line for the bottom curve of your text. Then select the text (path object) and click on the arrow in the tool box area. take the bottom most points in the text object and move them to their relative positions on the guide line if you can use snaps to help you then do so. hope this helps ... Mario @ DMC Publishing ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 98 Sat Dec 05, 1992 K.SPRINGER1 [CHIEF] at 14:05 EST Mario - Oh, the problems of trying to describe textually the graphic result you wish to create! A new way of presenting (maybe) the problem occurred to me last night. Let's say I want to create a rainbow using the dynamic greyscale object. Complete with the curve. Can I get the greyscale object to follow curves in a control path? D.GORDON7 had sent me off to get Robert Gillies' file on putting text on the path that solved my problem with letters curving when I didn't want them to. My greyscale just does not want to follow the curve in the control path. Maybe it's not possible, so I would like to know that also. Hate to have to take the time to do it manually. :-) Ken ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 99 Sun Dec 06, 1992 ISD [Mario] at 22:43 EST Ken, you dont have to create the rainbow manually, simply create a semicircle and copy it using the transformation calculator in enlarge % less than 100% and then copy to foreground on. Make certain that your last object is White and have no outline on your objects. For it to work correctly use the following as an example: 1. Set reference pin to position x=80 y=80 2. Set Extrafunctions on. 3. Set the following options in the Extra Functions dialog box a. Transform before copy - on b. Multiple copy - on Greyscale Variation - on (-5%) Copy to Foreground - on Prompt # of Copies - on Extra Functions active - on Then go to your object types area and click on the Icon for path object. Then go to your editing/creating functions and click on the hammer and bezier path option. Place your first point at the following position. x=40 y=80, your second point at x=80 y=40 your third at x=120 y=80 and While holding down the shift key click your fourth point at x=120 y=90, then while still in straight line mode click your fifth point at x=40 y=90 and your final point at x=40 y=80. Then click on the smoothen subpath Icon and this will create your first stage object (not quite a semi-circle), to complete this object delete points 4 (x=120 y=90) and 5 (x=40 y=90) and click on the object dialog box icon and enter the following values in each field. Lines - off, Grey - on and at 35%, then click on OK. Select copy function and enter 7 in Number of copies field. Hope this helps ... Mario @ DMC Publishing ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 100 Sun Dec 06, 1992 WALLY.W [ _Wally_ ] at 23:01 EST Howdy, Does Outline Art come with a utility to convert .IMG to vector? This will greatly affect my decision. I need either a _better_ way to work on my current library of .IMG art, or a way to convert it to vector and work on it in that format. I really don't want to get a program that won't allow me to work on things I scan...and Touch Up is too much of a dawg for me to put up with it any longer. Does Outline Art have a scan function? Will it work with the Migraph hand scanner (if it does have such a function)? Wally ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 101 Mon Dec 07, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:01 EDT Message: 100, left on December 6, 1992 From: WALLY.W [ _Wally_ ] > Does Outline Art come with a utility to convert .IMG to vector? No, but the speedline modular available for Calamus SL will. > Does Outline Art have a scan function? Will it work with the >Migraph hand scanner (if it does have such a function)? No, but with Scan-lite from WizWorks you can scan from inside any GEM program. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 102 Mon Dec 07, 1992 K.SPRINGER1 [CHIEF] at 22:44 EST _WALLY_ Migraph also has a utility called Scansave, which runs as either a program or utility. I use it inside Invision Elite. It's basically just the scanning portion of Touch Up. I need to check with Dr. Bob, as I have trouble with one of his Migraph scanner modules. BTW, the letter is in snail mail. Ken in Bettles ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 103 Tue Dec 08, 1992 K.SPRINGER1 [CHIEF] at 01:01 EST Mario - Roger, now that I've got a perfect semi-circle rainbow.... :-) Let's try for a literary description of what I want to finally end up with. Too bad I just can't draw what I want on the screen. Sure would be easier. This may get loooong. Select path object icon, then the hammer and line. Put first point at x=40, y=40, second pt. at x=120, y=40, 3rd pt. at x=120, y=60, switch to bezier curve, 4th pt. at x=40,y=100, back to straight line, and last pt. at x=40, y=40. Select arrow icon, and curve the bezier curve upwards so it is obviously curved. We now have a polygon with 3 straight sides and 1 curved side. What I want to do is put the rainbow effect inside the polygon, with each "color" going all the way from the left side to the right side. The left ends should be equally spaced top to bottom, and the right ends should be equally spaced top to bottom. And obviously each band would have to increase in curvature as you go from top to bottom. Only the top band would have a straight top line. This is the shape I was trying to get the dynamic greyscale to take by putting it on a control path. But I could never get the bottom element to curve. A guess, but I suspect the limits of the greyscale pattern is created with straight lines. If the limits were bezier curves, maybe it would follow the control path. (Am I close with my guess?) I have no doubt that the copying method could be done if you knew the right formula to put in the calculator. But my trig and calculus skills, learned in high school, are pleasantly resting with the dinosaurs. :-) That's one problem with the calculator I noticed from the very first time I saw it. It possesses a lot of potential power, but if you don't have a good working math knowledge and ability, you're in trouble. My observations have been that the greater the artistic ability, the poorer the math ability. It would seem to be a major hurdle for programmers of software like OL to overcome: how to make the software easy to use by the mathematically inept. Unless this problem is intriguing at your end, I don't expect you to spend "hours and hours" working it out. :-) Thanks Ken ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 104 Wed Dec 09, 1992 ISD [Mario] at 00:31 EST Try using Beziers on the line you want to curve. This would allow it to curve to the control path as close as poss. You may then want to fine tune the object. This is best done with the fill option off. Mario @ DMC Publishing ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 105 Thu Dec 10, 1992 K.SPRINGER1 [CHIEF] at 00:33 EST Mario, >Try using Beziers on the line you want to curve. This would allow it to curve >to the control path as close as poss. > >You may then want to fine tune the object. This is best done with the fill >option off. Wasn't sure if this message was for me, but tried bezier curve anyway, only to discover that dynamic greyscale doesn't let you use bezier curves, only does rectangles. I can make the greyscale wide on one end and narrow at the opposite, just cannot get the sides (the sides that are parallel to the different shades) to curve. Ken ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 106 Thu Dec 10, 1992 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 10:38 EST Oh, you are using dynamic greyscales. :-) Mario must have missed that part. Sorry Chief. However, there is nothing preventing you from creating a dynamic greyscale using the transformation calculator and the copy/clipboard functions, once you have created a rectangle with bezier curves on top and bottom. To create the dynamic greyscale, copy the original rectangle with your greyscale variations in either plus or minus varients. Or, take two aspirin and call me in the morning. :-) Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 107 Thu Dec 10, 1992 K.SPRINGER1 [CHIEF] at 22:51 EST Nathan and Mario - Earlier, D.GORDON7 suggested I contact REALM in regards to my effort. I did that yesterday. He suggested a version of your posting, Nathan, and hot diggety, I can do what I want. By combining his instructions, the instructions in PATHS_01.ARC (here on GEnie), and someone's posting earlier on creating transparent text, I can get exactly what I want. This has got to be the best place in the world for help. :-) A very big thanks to everyone who helped. Ken PS.- Look for a new nickname. Am resigning Fire Chief's position effective tonight. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 108 Fri Dec 11, 1992 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 17:11 EST Joey REALM Sherman is FAR better with Outline Art and natural creative talent than I. :-) I'm glad you were able to do what needed doing. And yes, I certainly agree that Category 16 in the Atari Roundtables on GEnie is the absolute BEST PLACE in the WORLD to get support or just to say hi. Hi Ken. :-) Hmmm, maybe you weren't being so specific. Ok, GEnie is the ABSOLUTE BEST PLACE for HELP, SUPPORT, COMRADERIE and all the little RIE's, in the WORLD!!! ;-) That was fun. Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 109 Fri Dec 11, 1992 K.SPRINGER1 [CHIEF] at 21:40 EST OOPS!! AND FAUX PAS TIME. Seems I gave the wrong D.GORDON credit for the help with OL. It was D.GORDON2 that gave me the assistance. Sorry for the mistake, Dennis. Ken ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 110 Fri Dec 11, 1992 BHARTSHORNE at 21:55 EST Nathan, is an update to Outline Art dead in the water or what is happening here? Can you give us any idea? Also what is happening with Type Art and the update to Speedline? Just wondering... Thanks-Bill By the way I am well aware of Nathan's terrific support-I made the comments on the newsletter simply to say I would hate to see DMC's time spent totally in a magazine rather than in support, and alos I have lost enough money from people who have promised the world in an ATari related magazine and don't produce for that reason as well as others. I was concerned about divided time and effort on such a project. Nathan's support is second to none. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 111 Sat Dec 12, 1992 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 08:19 EST I will be looking at a beta version of Outline Art 3.0 no less, next week I believe. More after I see it. Speedline should be upgraded to Curve and Line shortly. And thank you for the kind words Bill. They are always appreciated. Bill recently mumbled something about Debtors prison as he ordered the URW 88 Font Pack. :-) He has his priorities straight!! :-) Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 112 Sat Dec 12, 1992 BHARTSHORNE at 18:16 EST Yep, but moldy bread and water gets old after awhile, Nathan! :-) Looking forward to an upgrade of Outline Art-and by the way excellant service deserves kudos! Thanks, Bill ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 113 Sun Dec 13, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 00:57 EST Nathan, I've never upgraded from the first version 1 to 3 before.:-) Could be interesting! ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 114 Sun Dec 27, 1992 D.HARRIS8 at 22:29 EST Nathan, what's the possibility of an upgrade from Outline Art to Speedline? ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 115 Mon Dec 28, 1992 POTECHIN [RT~Sysop] at 11:02 EST Zero Don. You can upgrade Outline Art 1.0 to Outline Art 3.0 when it is finally released. You will also be able to upgrade Speedline to Curve and Line when it is also finally released. Speedline is not a replacement for Outline Art. Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 116 Mon Dec 28, 1992 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 12:28 EST Don, the Vector Graphic module is an editor much like Outline Art in its features although it has some that OA does not, and vice versa. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 117 Sun Jan 03, 1993 D.HARRIS8 at 13:13 EST Okay. Is it necessary, then to have OA and Speedline? Also, any forecast on OA 3.0 (and what happened to 2.0)? Don ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 118 Sun Jan 03, 1993 POTECHIN [RT~Sysop] at 13:29 EST Yes Don. :-) Speedline is a simple, fast and clean Autotracer. Ask me about OL 3.0 in a few weeks. I am expecting a beta in about a week. Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 119 Sun Jan 03, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 13:51 EST Don, Outline Art you know very well based on the great art you created with it! SpeedLine is a vector tracing program that converts raster graphics to vector paths and objects. It is also a module in Calamus SL so you cannot run it standalone. Regarding Outline Art 3.0, I believe Nathan made some allusion to it recently, perhaps in Topic 20. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 120 Sun Jan 03, 1993 POTECHIN [RT~Sysop] at 16:47 EST I loved Don's Rose. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 121 Sat Jan 16, 1993 D.HARRIS8 at 15:44 EST Thanks Nathan, I'll be looking forward to the OL upgrade. I'm working on a couple of new projects, possibly for the Calamus Contest this year. Thanks for the compliments, guys. Looks like my business needs may be picking up a little bit soon and I may need to go ahead and get the L on my S (I can say that, can't I?) along with Speedline and Mount modules. Soon, maybe? Don ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 122 Sun Feb 07, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 01:49 EST DMC - I was using Dataformer tonight, and when exporting a frame in CVG format, I noticed their was the option to select version 1.0 or 1.1. I am assuming that this refers to OL. I have version 1.0 of OL, did I miss an update notice, or is this something that never made it across the big pond in the east? What are the ramifications (see, I know some big words :-) ) one version or the other? Thanks, Ken ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 123 Sun Feb 07, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 09:47 EST Ken... CVG 1.0 is the native 1.09 format and is not color-capable. CVG 1.1 is the SL format and will handle color. The same options are available in the EPS>CVG program. I believe the upcoming Outline Art 3.0 will also offer both formats. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 124 Sun Feb 07, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 14:04 EST Lou - any idea when the upcoming Outline Art 3.0 will be upcoming? Ken ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 125 Sun Feb 07, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 15:01 EST Ken, Nathan is the only one who gives out release dates. However, I am allowed to hint ;-) Save your pennies now! ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 126 Sun Feb 07, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 15:25 EST As Lou suggested, it won't be long now. In fact, I'm hoping to have a version ready for release in two weeks. I haven't yet determined how much additonal work is required for the manual though. It is an upgrade to Outline Art 1.0, long awaitied and needed I might add. :-) Nathan ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 127 Sun Feb 07, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 22:38 EST Nathan & Lou - Glad to hear it. I always have some spare pennies for your products. :-) Will be digging deep into them, thinking of getting TT to replace Mega4, and am doing serious questioning in the TT topic. Would like to make money with this "game machine" and perform career change at same time. Ken ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 128 Mon Feb 08, 1993 D.GORDON2 [DENNIS] at 08:58 EST In the er meantime, any chance of uploading some more OL3 samples that show the improvement in grayscales (as Mario mentioned elsewhere)? ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 129 Tue Feb 09, 1993 BHARTSHORNE at 23:34 EST Nathan, can you give us some word on features since the release is near (SIGH!)? Hopefully the first to go was the 100K barrier, and of course adding color is a must these days..what else can you say if anything? Thanks Bill Hartshorne ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 130 Wed Feb 10, 1993 ISD [Mario] at 21:10 EST Bill, Nathan will be preparing something in the near future about OL 3 ... Keep em peeled. Mario @ DMC Publishing ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 131 Fri Feb 12, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 16:03 EST TzheThe limit is GONE! Colour is IN! More when I get back. Wait for it. Nathan (from Germany) ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 132 Fri Feb 12, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 23:15 EST Uh ooh, Did I hear right. OL 3 about to be released. I just purchased DynaCADD 2D to play around. Now you tell me. Oh well. Where did I put my Visa card. WHAT, too close to my limit. TIME OUT. Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 133 Sun Feb 21, 1993 D.HAEFNER at 05:39 EST To ISD; Saw the recent messages hinting at OL-3. I am seriously looking for a high end COLOR vector graphics package similar to Corel for PC or Aldus products for the MAC. I have yet to see anything like this for the ST/TT. I NEED color capability, text effects, lotsa graphic drawing tools, and export to EPS (or convert to EPS at the very least). I have the OL demo, and that looks ok, but a little light on features (maybe that's me, no manual or anything). How does the new version stack up??? Dave ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 134 Sun Feb 21, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 06:31 EST The new version has color, text effects, graphic drawing tools and export to PS and EPS directly from within it. It was not designed to replace Corel Draw but I can say that it offers a major upgrade from 1.0. Nathan ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 135 Wed Feb 24, 1993 D.HAEFNER at 04:40 EST Thanks, Nathan, for the info. If you can, tell me more about the drawing tools, maybe there is enough there to make the program useful. Dave ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 136 Wed Feb 24, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 09:12 EST Dave ... Are you familiar with the original Outline Art? Essentially the tools remain the same although they now operate in a much more elegant fashion (easier, more intuitive). One of the major features of the program was always the claculator and we will be enclosing a whole new set of formula which are a real treat, at least for someone like me that doesn't come close to understanding the math involved. :-) I'll see if I can get my hands on a DEMO version of Outline Art 3.0 and place it in the library. Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 137 Wed Feb 24, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 23:02 EST Nathan and Dave... I have just spent a few hours with Outline Art 3 and I must say I am quite impressed. If anything, I would say it has become easier to use with the context sensitive help! ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 138 Sat Feb 27, 1993 D.HAEFNER at 03:19 EST Nathan, All I have on Outline 2 is the demo I got from here. Most of it seems kinda confusing. Any detailed work seems to need a complex formula, and without a manual, it is difficult to figure (or am I just missing something?). For text (font) effects, it looks great, but I was hoping for more of a vector draw program to be included in the upgrade. From an earlier post this seemed like it might be the case. Dave ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 139 Sat Feb 27, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 09:51 EST Dave ... The demo in the library is a complete working version of Outline Art, save disabled, BUT we cannot include documentation for reasons which should be obvious. If you wish to see some excellent examples of what can be done with the tools that are included with the program AND the calculator and copy affects, please download a few of the Outline Art contest entries in our own library 30. They are truly a case of a picture being worth a thousand words. Sincerely Nathan of DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 140 Tue Mar 09, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 10:02 EST I released a Press Release on Outline Art 3.0 yesterday but have not yet uploaded it to the library. I will do so in a few minutes. Meanwhile, it's not so big so here it is. ;-) PRESS RELEASE February 25, 1993 DMC Publishing 2800 John Street, Unit 10 Markham, Ontario Canada L3R 0E2 Tel: (416) 479-1880 Fax: (416) 479-1882 GEnie: ISD Compuserve: 76004,2246 Delphi: ISDMARKETING Contact: Nathan Potechin DMC Publishing is proud to announce the release of Outline Art 3.0. This long-awaited upgrade to the original Outline Art standard includes all the features that made the original famous, plus color, eps/ps export, macro keys, user-definable UNDO, context-sensitive help which explains each and every feature and more. Two variations of this program are currently available, in two megabyte or four megabyte configurations depending upon your existing hardware. When placing your upgrade or order, please indicate your specific Atari computer. To all of our existing registered owners of Outline Art, the introductory upgrade charge until May 30, 1993, is US $49.95 or $59.95 Canadian. The introductory retail price of Outline Art 3.0 is US $149.95 or $175.00 Canadian. Effective immediately, the new price for the industry-standard Outline Art 1.0 is US $89.95 or $109.95 Canadian. The July/August 1992 issue of Atari Explorer carried the winners of the second annual Outline Art contest. The contest attracted entries from professional and amateur Outline Art users, worldwide and is indicative of the position long held by this vector graphic drawing program from DMC. (Note: All winning entries are available for downloading from our library #30 in the Atari Roundtable Library on GEnie.) The 4 Megabyte DEMO version of Outline Art 3.0 is now available for downloading. Although Save and export functions have been disabled, and the context sensitve help has been left out, the program is entirely functional and will give you a complete preview of the capabilities that have made DMC's Outline Art famous. For further information, please do not hesitate to contact your nearest Atari Dealer or DMC directly. We will be pleased to answer any questions you might have. Nathan Potechin President DMC Publishing No. File Name Type Address YYMMDD Bytes Access Lib ----- ------------------------ - ------------ ------ ------- ------ --- 27991 OL3_DEMO.LZH X POTECHIN 930308 167168 17 30 Desc: Outline Art 3.0 Demo Version ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 141 Tue Mar 09, 1993 T.MCCOMB [=Tom=] at 12:05 EST Nathan- What are the differences between the two versions? One requiring 2MB ram vs 1 requiring 4MB? WHat features are different? If your HW configuration changes can one easily jump from one version to another? -Tom McComb {11:49 am} Tuesday, March 9, 1993 ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 142 Tue Mar 09, 1993 LEXICOR2 [Ringo] at 14:00 EST I hope this is the right topic area. The Outline Art 3.0 DEMO version is excellent and I will be upgrading as soon as possible. Nathan will it work on the Matrix? Ringo ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 143 Tue Mar 09, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 15:46 EST Tom ... it presets a few things memory related here and there. The 4 meg version requires a 4 meg RAM machine. There will be a 1 meg version as well but it is not available at this time. Ringo ... Outline Art 3.0 works with ALL graphic cards, including Matrix, Crazy Dots and of course Cybercube. Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 144 Tue Mar 09, 1993 D.CHARTER at 21:27 EST Nathan, I would like a little more information on the differences between the 2 and 4 meg versions. I have a 520ST with 4 Megs of Ram. Would I have to delete all accessories for the 4 Meg version? What would I lose/gain? Can we order my EMAIL as usual? Thanks, Duane ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 145 Wed Mar 10, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 01:35 EST Ringo, Works great on the Matrix! I'll have a color Grog ready to upload here shortly. Nothing too incredible but I set it up so anyone can easily re- color him. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 146 Wed Mar 10, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 07:53 EST Duane ... To be honest, I don't know. (blush) I don't have a 4 megabyte 520 ST. It should work. Yes, of course you can order in email. Use either the ISD or my own POTECHIN account please. Either way, it comes to me. Joey ... where's GROG at? ;-) I want it!!! Thanks. Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 147 Wed Mar 10, 1993 LEXICOR2 [Ringo] at 13:16 EST I had a palette problem with it on the Matrix. What was to be a white color was blue etc. What version of the Matrix software are you running? I may be using a very old one. Realm so you are not using the DEMO version if you can save your files. Ringo ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 148 Wed Mar 10, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 17:10 EST Actually, I'm using a Cybercube Ringo but I think I have the latest Matrix drivers around. I'll look for you. Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 149 Wed Mar 10, 1993 R.VOORNEVELD [BOB] at 19:59 EST Duane I have a Stock Mega 4ST, and the 4 meg Demo version is working fine. Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 150 Wed Mar 10, 1993 LEXICOR2 [Ringo] at 21:06 EST Nathan Thanks! ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 151 Wed Mar 10, 1993 VORTEXT at 23:54 EST I assume it will take advantage of TT ram. I only have 2 meg ST with 16 TT. I hope I can use the 4 meg version. Daniel ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 152 Wed Mar 10, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 23:57 EST Ringo, I'm using v2.2 of the Matrix stuff. My colors appear to working OK although I haven't thoroughly tested it. I just colored Grog and I haven't had time to mess with it again. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 153 Thu Mar 11, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 08:51 EST No idea Daniel. We have at least 4 meg ST RAM in our TT's. Have you downloaded the demo and tried it? Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 154 Thu Mar 11, 1993 E.WELLS at 20:55 EST Nathan, I assume that OA 3.0 will work on the TT and the Falcon? Are there ST/TT/Falcon specific versions or does it know what it's running on? And if it's running on a TT will it take advantage of the coprocessor? thanks everett -s 8s ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 155 Thu Mar 11, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 22:50 EST Everett ... YES. It will work on the TT and Falcon and Mega ST and Mega STe. I'll have to check re: the various methods the machines access the avrious math coprocessors. I was told but haven't yet checked for myself. Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 156 Fri Mar 12, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 19:54 EST I asked Joey to do me a favor and color in GROG because I loved it. ;-) I am easily impressed when I see something that I cannot accomplish. ;-) Although I know how to use Outline Art fairly well, that side of my brain is simply not capable of the necessary creativity to make a drawing such as the one that came out of the brain and talent of REALM. Anyway, he colored it in and uploaded it to library 30. You have got to see this file. ;-) No. File Name Type Address YYMMDD Bytes Access Lib ----- ------------------------ - ------------ ------ ------- ------ --- 28022 GROGCOLR.LZH X REALM 930311 123392 4 30 Desc: This is a color SL CDK of Grog! Warning, it opens up to 700K uncompressed. ;-) Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 157 Fri Mar 12, 1993 D.HARRIS8 at 21:58 EST YAAAAAYYYY! Nathan! (trumpets trumpeting and crowds cheering) This is one long awaited and very welcome upgrade. THANKS!!! 8^) Don ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 158 Fri Mar 12, 1993 VORTEXT at 23:08 EST Nathan, The demo does indeed work on my machine. I just need to switch the flags to use TT ram. One more silly question, eventhough it's already on its way... Does OL3 come with a new manual in the reworked, informational, easy to read style of the SL puppy? Daniel ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 159 Sat Mar 13, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 01:21 EST Wait until you get the OL files they open up to 1666K.:-) I have everything grouped together now so you can color entire areas at once. I believe you could easily spend the rest of your life just playing with coloring things.:-) Glad you like the color Grog! I'm going to play with it some more soon as I get time I'm not entirely happy yet. I agree with Don too, this is a major improvement! ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 160 Sun Mar 14, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 08:45 EST Daniel ... No! I made a judgement call which I imagine will be reflected right back here in the not to distant future. :-) Unlike the DEMO that I uploaded, the shipping version has online context-sensitive help. This means that if you click on an icon and then hit the HELP key, a complete description will appear explaining the feature. I am hoping that this is sufficient for the meantime, instead of delaying the release and increasing the cost. By the way, I am fully prepared to upload an OL3 order to anyone via GEnie should they so choose. Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 161 Sun Mar 14, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 10:43 EST Nathan, RE: EMailing OL3 And then ship the manuals by normal carrier? Or is the new version so friendly that we don't need a manual? ;-) BTW, I hardly ever RTFMed until I hit the calculator function on the original OLA. Not that it did me any good anyway... Even the "Guide" couldn't penetrate my confusion (and the sweaty palms fear of advanced math :-) More than anything else, that one little function caused the beginning of my long "affair with GEnie". (Shhh, don't tell the wife :-) Doug7 ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 162 Sun Mar 14, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 13:53 EST Ken, Nathan is outside shovelling :-) The new version of OL 3.0 is completely usable without a manual because of the context-sensitive help (which is disabled in the demo). There is also a set of predefined formulae that you can load into the calculator for some amazing effects... so you don't need to RTFM :-) Have you downloaded GROG_COL.LZH from Joey Sherman [REALM]. It contains 1.62 megs of color *.OL files that are a good indication of what you can accomplish. Remember the last Outline Art Contest? Well, I can't wait til next year 'cause the entries will be in color! ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 163 Sun Mar 14, 1993 R.VOORNEVELD [BOB] at 14:31 EST OL 3 is Great ! REALMS grog looks really terrific ... Thanks Joe I did notice a Little German still lurking :>) In the Extra Functions drop down menu Extra-Function On the Bottom it reads: [] Extra Funktions Active In the Calculator, the new SPECIAL.FNC when loaded, the position buttons are still all in German. Thanks for a great upgrade. Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 164 Sun Mar 14, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 14:50 EST WHAT?! That has ALL been translated. ARGHH!!!! ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 165 Sun Mar 14, 1993 S.RAMIREZ [Sam] at 19:33 EST Nathan...I downloaded the OL3_DEMO.LZH file and after playing with it for about an hour I have the following questions. Will the final release version have a cirle drawing tool? I know that it is possible to draw a circle using the calculator and the proper formula but this is kinda like having to re-invent the wheel! Besides, I nearly flunked Highschool Algebra! so my mathematical capability is very limited. I was very dissapointed when I didn't see a tool for drawing a simple circle. I hope it will be included. Another question is about the lack of responsiveness when left clicking on the mouse to add/move/delete points or other actions for selecting something. When I click on an object I have to keep the button pressed for about a full second before Outline will recognize the mouse click. I found this to still be the case in the demo. I know that if I remove all of my accessories(sp?) this will go away but why is it that this only happens with Outline and not with Calamus/SL or any other program that I have? If you can address these questions, especially the first one, I would greatly appreciate it. I have been waiting for the release of OL3 before deciding to buy another vector graphics creating/editing program. If the current demo is representative of what the final version will be then I don't think I will be upgrading to OL3 since for someone of limited artistic ability I find it frustrating to do some very basic things such as drawing and resizing cirles. However, I do appreciate some of it's other features such as defining text paths and reshaping text objects. Sincerely, Sam Ramirez P.S. I was also hoping that OL3 would have auto-tracing capabilities. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 166 Sun Mar 14, 1993 S.SAMUELS [ORCA] at 20:03 EST Nathan,... I did email you an order for OL 3.0 and would be happy to have arrive email. Thanks. %^) ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 167 Mon Mar 15, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 00:04 EST I'll probably wait to have real OL 3 in hand before downloading. Having switched from Mega4 to TT just this afternoon, got to get used to the color desktop first. :-) Ken S. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 168 Mon Mar 15, 1993 VORTEXT at 01:16 EST Nathan - You can e-mail mine as well if it has not as yet gone out. Grog looks nice. I took some of it apart to see how it was done. Most interesting. Takes forever to redraw though. Everytime you move something or change something...coffee time. Daniel ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 169 Mon Mar 15, 1993 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 06:52 EST Nathan: Has the manual for Outline Art been completely overhauled for Ver. 3.0 or simply updated? My reason for asking is that everytime I try to use the present OA manual I struggle. Frankly, I don't know if it's the manual or _me_! The tutorials seem decent enough but I always seem to fall on my face. Anyone else have similar problems? Specifics: With the Demo version of OA3 I've tried several times to do a gradient fill of outlined letters on the VERTICAL axis. Obviously, the letters must first be converted to an object and then the gradient must be overlayed. I've attempted to apply the concepts in the OA1 manual without success. Could someone manage a walk-through for me? I'd appreciate it. -- Dave @ Binary Ink ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 170 Mon Mar 15, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 18:11 EST Sam ... The OL3 DEMO is a demo of the 4 meg release version. Save and export are disabled and the online context-sensitive help has been left out, as has a new table of formula. Otherwise it is the release version. Daniel ... Remind me to ask Joey how many vector parts are in it. :-) Dave ... Right or wrong, the manual hasn't been touched at all. The program is essentially identical with new features added in. That online help I mentioned is really comprehensive. I decided to go with it rather than spend time and money on a new manual. We will make a new tutorial and make it freely available once it has been completed. Again, I made a judgement call and went without it. I haven't done a gradient fill of text objects in some time. If no one else answers, I'll re-learn and walk you through it. Joey? Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 171 Tue Mar 16, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 19:33 EST Lets see... Outline 3 works like SL you can hold down the CONTROL+SHIFT+ALT to stop the redraws if your moving around. Unless your talking about the SL file it is snack time slow.:-) The OL files don't redraw to bad at all... at least on the TT. I lost count of the vectors around 7 or 8.:-) Dave, Take the text you've converted to an object and draw a box around it. Make sure you draw the box in the same frame as the letters. In other words select the text frame then click on the tools box so the letters themselves turn into vectors. Once you have that make sure the box's rotation is opposite that of the text. You may have to change the direction of letters as well until it's correct. Basically if your letter doesn't show up change it's direction. When your done, set that to white and that makes a white stencil with see through letters. Then you take that and place it over the gradient fill so it shows through the letters. Basically your making a mask to put over the fill. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 172 Tue Mar 16, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 20:21 EST Thanks Joey. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 173 Wed Mar 17, 1993 VORTEXT at 00:55 EST There are many many parts to it. I took some sections apart to see what he had done. Quite amazing really. Personally I don't know if I'd have the patience. Daniel ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 174 Wed Mar 17, 1993 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 06:43 EST Nathan: Truely unfortunate that OA3 does not have an upgraded manual. Really, IMHO, it OA (both versions) would benefit from some U2U action. Certainly there are people out there that are competent with it as witnessed by the art competitions. I find myself not truely happy with _any_ of the vector art programs. They all are strong in some areas and weak in others. OA1 was robust, but not very intuitive. Such as situation demands clear, sequential tutorials that develop and reinforce skills. Without it the program never will develop a significant following because of _perceived_ shortcomings in the program. 'Nuf said. I look forward to playing with OA3 and the online help. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 175 Wed Mar 17, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 08:39 EST Good point re: User to User. Joey and Steve are regulars here and both are Outline Art contest winners. Care to earn some U2U points guys? In fact, Don Harris did a great ROSE that I personally felt should have placed higher. ;-) We have lots of talent here, none of which comes from me and yes, I will extend the U2U concept to cover OL3, with pleasure. Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 176 Thu Mar 18, 1993 BHARTSHORNE at 21:27 EST Nathan, am I too assume that features in OL3 will work in color as well as just fills? (Nuts! that question is as clear as mud!) What I mean is SL allows you to do every apect of text from the outline to the shadow in color- will OL3 allow the same with vector objects (such as a multicolor gradient fill within letters?) I am too cheap to download the demo since I already ordered the upgrade. Speaking of upgrades-did you find my registration for Outline? I am sure I sent it in (I always register my software) but I don't want this to hold up my upgrade. Are the upgrades shipping? Thanks a million Bill Hartshorne ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 177 Thu Mar 18, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 22:39 EST Why don't you download Joey's GROG Bill. It not only answers your question, it's a GREAT piece of work. And the answer is yes. Re: Order, I don't recall offhand Bill. Did you order in email? If you did the answer is yes or you would have heard back from me immediately. I'll try and remember to check this tomorrow. In the case of placing or verifying an order, please send me email. Thanks. Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 178 Fri Mar 19, 1993 S.LIVERSIDGE [STEVE L] at 00:02 EST Sam: Actually, drawing a circle with OL3 (or OL1) is dead easy, without the calculator. With SNAP ON, EDIT PATH, ELEMENT:CURVE TO.. (the curved path icon,) ADD ELEMENT TO PATH (the hammer icon,) select a start point, then a second, third, fourth, and fifth points at 90, 180, 270 and 360 degrees. Use SMOOTH SUB-PATH, and you have an instant circle. Should take about 25 seconds. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 179 Fri Mar 19, 1993 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 07:07 EST Joey: Thanks for the assist on the gradient filled letters. Your instructions allowed me to create the effect I was looking for. BTW, OA3 offers beautiful smooth gradients now (my copy showed up in the mail yesterday-Thanks Nathan! ). =========== Nathan: The new formulas for the calculator in OA3 are unique. Any possibility of MORE from Deutscheland? I thought I read that you had seen a bunch of them.... Relentless ain't he?!? Just got it yesterday no less..... -- Mr. Ink @ Binary ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 180 Fri Mar 19, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 09:04 EST Sam ... Steve accurately described how we do make circles with Outline Art, by basically creating a perfect square and using the Smooth Subpath option to make it a perfect circle BUT you are absolutely correct, we should have a single tool that makes circles. I have no idea why we don't have one but it is certainly ON MY LIST! Thank you for reminding me. Settle down Mr. Ink. I cannot even read these new formulas as it is. ;-) Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 181 Fri Mar 19, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 19:41 EST No problem Mr.Ink! Nathan, when you ask for Circle, ask that it do Ellipse as well... please.:- ) ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 182 Fri Mar 19, 1993 S.KALEITA [SAK] at 20:10 EST Nathan...User to User...hmmm; I'll see what I can come up with as soon as I start to learn some of the new features in OL3. Question: I have 4 megs of ST ram and 4 megs of TT ram...I know you mentioned something about different configurations of the program, (2 meg, 4 meg); all I know is with nothing loaded except the control acc & Joey's screen grabber; The program info say's that I only have 256k of memory to use. I know that that's more they twice of OL 1, but I ran out of memory real fast doing some graident fill work. Should I have a different memory configuration of the program? What would you reccommend for my flag settings? SAK :) ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 183 Fri Mar 19, 1993 BHARTSHORNE at 21:20 EST Nathan, yes I placed my upgrade order by email-I'm not trying to bother you about shipping other than I wanted to be sure you had my registration so there were no unecessary delays-glad there seem to be no problems-I was pretty sure I had registered OL. Thanks a million again for such quick responses! Bill Hartshorne ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 184 Sat Mar 20, 1993 D.GORDON2 [DENNIS] at 01:05 EST I've been playing with the demo and was ready to upgrade when our water heater chose to die causing grief to our downstair's neighbors and my wallet. So now I'm gonna need an extra nudge to part with the fifty bucks. Can anyone upload some cvgs with gradient greys to show me that the 256 grey levels is really happenin'? BTW I really like the fact that the outline thickness is now definable for each object, instead of the entire cvg... ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 185 Sat Mar 20, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 09:29 EST Will do Joey. The 256K limit has something to do with the maximum number of vector graphic points that GEM can handle or something like that. And I don't know the other answers yet. ;-) I'm using a Mega ST4 and haven't asked Mario who is on the TT what settings he's using. Dennis .. Take a look a Joey's new GROG in the library. He has gradient fills in it, in color. Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 186 Sat Mar 20, 1993 J.NOLAN5 [John Nolan] at 14:11 EST Has there been any progress in enabling the help feature in the 2 meg version of OL3? Tech support couldn't help me turn help on last Tuesday. ------------ Category 16, Topic 8 Message 187 Sat Mar 20, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 14:52 EST John ... I hadn't heard but at a minimum, you should be able to print out the help file at the very least. Nathan@DMC ------------