========================================================================== (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt. Type XJM11877,GEnie and hit RETURN. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== Category 4, Topic 21 Message 1 Fri May 17, 1991 J.CRASWELL at 11:38 EDT How much interest would there be in a card for the MegaSTe & TT that woulld display 1280x960 and 1600x1280? You could run your typical moniterm in the 1280 mode and "MAYBE" even the higher res. Depends on which moniterm you have and how much dicking around you are willing to do. And of course you could use a M24LMax from my buds at Image Systems in either of the modes. Show of hands please! Oh and for those of you that want to connect your Moniterms to TT's.... I have at long last looked at the situation. Lots s of you send good bribes! I have ONE working. I can not tell you that it i is a sure thing. There were several different screens and I know a little about 2. No warranty on this one kids! Call me and lets work out a deal! (612) 492-3913. And tell me about your wants on this VME display. - Jay (Dover Research Corporation) We work late so save the long distance charges! ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 2 Mon Jun 03, 1991 J.GNIEWKOWSK [Johnny] at 23:32 EDT Please excuse me if this question has been asked before! I need some advice on my next system "upgrade". I have both a color and monchrome monitor, and use the monochrome 95% of the time ("system" is a 520ST with Aerco memory upgrade to 2.5 megs). Would the price or advantages of the Moniterm out weigh the Autoswitch Overscan ($105) upgrade? I a also planning on installing the ICD Adspeed (if that makes any difference). Thanks! John ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 3 Wed Jun 05, 1991 N.WEINRESS at 00:13 EDT Johnny, if you use monochrome 95% of the time, you would probably be well served by a large svreen monitor. Besides the Moniterm, there is another one offered by Jay Craswell. Read back through this topic to get details. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 4 Thu Jun 06, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 01:11 EDT Johnny - As one who has extensively used the old PD Overscan on an SM124 and is currently a Moniterm owner, I can say this: 1. Overscan makes a very worthwhile screen size increase. 688*480 makes Calamus and PageStream considerably easier to work with. If you keep your 520 it's really the only practical screen expander, and $105 plus some soldering time isn't a bad price to pay for the improvement gained. 2. The Moniterm board and 19" monitor is now selling new for $1,000. Used ones have been seen on GEnie with asking prices of about $700 (I bought a used one. If I had it to do over again, I would have paid the extra $300 to get a new one). If most of your work is done on your SM124, you'd be in hog heaven with a Moniterm. 2A. The Catch: The Moniterm board plugs into the Mega's expansion bus and takes its power from the Mega's expansion power connector. You don't have either of these items in your 520. John Russell sells an expansion bus for the non-Mega ST's. Cost, I think, is around $300 plus installation. Your existing power supply would probably have to be upgraded - figure about $85 for one of the Best Power Supplies. Then you're going to have to go to one of those "mutant" PC enclosures - no way the Moniterm board is going to fit inside a 520 or 1040 case. It can be done with your 520, but not without an incredible amount of hassle and a total cost of about $1500. You should be able to pick up a used Mega 2 for about $600. If you did that and bought the Moniterm new, you're in with no hassle for a total of $1600. A lot of money, but not a lot of money when you look at what it would cost to get a Mac or IBM clone with a 1280*960 display. If you're going to stick with your 520, install the Overscan. It provides a considerably opened-up display for not much cost. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 5 Thu Jun 20, 1991 DOUG.W at 19:34 EDT OK, here it is: Category 4, Topic 3 Message 57 Wed Jul 25, 1990 E.MULDOWNEY [Wintermute] at 20:47 EDT All you need to do an Overscan mod to -any- ST is a 74LS00 chip (a Quad input NAND gate), three jumper wires and an SPDT switch (3 pin). On my 1040 there was even an empty spot for the chip. The connections to be made are as follows: pins 1,2,3 - doesn't matter pin 4 - HSYNC (GLUE pin 37) pin 5 - VSYNC (GLUE pin 38) pin 6 - jumpered to pin 9 pin 7 - GND pin 8 - Output (Composite Sync) to one side of the switch pin 9 - jumpered to pin 6 pin 10 - +5 Volts pin 11,12,13 - doesn't matter pin 14 - +5 Volts After that you just have to cut the trace which goes from DE (display enable GLUE pin 39) to Shifter pin 37 and MMU pin 52, but m ake sure you cut it BEFORE it branches, so that MMU is still connected to Shifter. Then you connect the other input side of your switch to GLUE pin 39, and the output terminal of the switch (probably the middle pin) to Shifter pin 37 and MMU pin 52. Hope this helped, if you have any other Q's leave me mail. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 6 Sat Jun 22, 1991 N.WEINRESS at 02:20 EDT Doug, isn't there a software patch required to use this overscan? ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 7 Sat Jun 22, 1991 DOUG.W at 11:02 EDT Norm, Yes, this uses the overscan software that is already available in the library. --Doug ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 8 Mon Jun 24, 1991 R.NELSON123 [R.NELSON123] at 00:00 EDT Well, I decided to start small and do the overscan to a spare 1040 stfm (REV. D)I have as a back up. I've been reading E.MULDOWNEY's upload, ST Internals, Overscan.txt and the Tech Specialties catalog and I still can't distinguish between the GLUE and the MMU. I tried to trace the paths from pin 39 on both chips and neither seems to lead ther shifter. What are the U#s? Do I check the traces above or below? Are any of the hole pads plated through? Is the empty spot referred to by Mr. Muldowny the 14 pin pad (u63) in the can with the Shifter? If so, what about the traces already there? Has anyone has down the quad-nand overscan mod to this version mother board? It has six socketed 1.2 roms, 32 ram chips under the keyboard, the glue and mmu are located to the left of the key pad and the cpu is above the keypad. Thanks for any help! ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 9 Mon Jun 24, 1991 R.NELSON123 [R.NELSON123] at 17:48 EDT re OVERSCAN Yikes.... I poked around until I did finally ID the chips and traces in my 1040. I intalled the 74LS00 per instructions but.. I now have a desktop with no drive Icons neither floppy nor hard drive shows on the desktop. The menu bar is there OK. The switch blacks out the screen in one position and returns it to normal in the other. I haven't installed OVERSCAN.PRG because ....no drive ICONS. What do I (or did I) do? Rick ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 10 Tue Jun 25, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 18:34 EDT Simple enough, Rob. On a standard ST your screen is 640*400 pixels (mono) or 640*200 (med res) or 320*200 (lo). You can't see it on the mono 'cause it's black, but I'm sure you're familiar with the ST's white screen border on the color monitor. The stock ST broadcasts a fixed black (mono) or white (color) image in that area, and broadcasts whatever your program is showing INSIDE that area. Overscan allows the program area to expand to take in that border area. You gain about 20% in actual usable screen size. The size of the image - which is controlled by the size of the pixels on your monitor - stays the same. There's just more of it. Mono can be up to 704*480. I've found the vertical picture size gain with overscan to be extremely helpful. There's less of a gain horizontally, but in monochrome overscan relieves that squashed vertical feeling that you get with the SM124. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 11 Tue Jun 25, 1991 R.NELSON123 [R.NELSON123] at 21:36 EDT Andrew: While I had my Mega unplugged, I popped it open and it is a rev. 5 board. I looked at PIC 3 from the overscan file and it looks TOO easy. The picture is very clear and I located all the traces instantly. The lower right corner is a little off.... the traces appear to be located not just to left of the corner screw hole, but near the locating hole to the left of the brass locating pin. (under C111) Is ther no chip or transister to add? Just wires and a switch? ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 12 Wed Jun 26, 1991 R.NELSON123 [R.NELSON123] at 19:04 EDT Any suggestions for my 1040? It boots and runs the auto folder programs on both A: & C:, but there are still no drive icons. I haven't installed overscan.prg. Rick ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 13 Wed Jun 26, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 23:08 EDT Nelson (Rick?): I did the German mod as detailed in the docs. No chips; just the wires and switch. Eric Rosenquist's brother's mod uses a 74LS00 in the circuit. I may get one the next time I put in an order with Best Electronics and add it to see what it does. All overscan does (I think) is replace a hardware bit counter with a software- adjustable one. Very simple, very effective. Dave: Very true! Maybe GEnie Lamp will pick up on that idea. Rick, regarding your 1040 note: Put the overscan.prg in your AUTO folder - see if the icons show up in overscan mode. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 14 Thu Jun 27, 1991 D.SENSUI at 05:31 EDT Nelson: Just as Mike V. did, I also followed the German docs and managed to get the PD version of Overscan going. the only difference between Mike and I is that I hardly use mine. A shame, really, but I got lazy when it wouldn't function right with Touch-Up. The switch is still there and the software's in place. Just haven't bothered to boot it up that way. I'd love to see how the newest hardware version functioned, but can't spare the cash right now. Trying my darnest to find decent titling software and hardware so I can incorportate my Mega into my video editing system. Don't want to fork out the cash for a Toaster and an A___a. Dean. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 15 Fri Jun 28, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 07:42 EDT Dean. what went wrong with Touch-Up? I haven't used overscn much since getting a (used) Moniterm, but seem to remember T-U working OK. Real value of overscan comes in usign Calamus or PgStream or Easy Draw and T-U with it. Those programs really benefit from the extra screen information/size. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 16 Fri Jun 28, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 19:38 EDT Norm: whatever programs run on a Moniterm should also run in overscan. Spectre will not because it can't handle the software-controlled resolution. Some old stuff - WordWriter and First Word Plus are two - will work perfectly in overscan but "glitch" on the Moniterm. Degas won't work; Flash won't work. Those two are hard-coded to the stock ST resolutions. Degas Elite and the final release version of NeoChrome I don't know about. Overscan's no big thing to those of us who have Moniterms, but it certainly is a cost-effective way to get some much needed display expansion for "properly written" graphics and dtp programs. The SM124's 640x400 "CinemaScope" picture looks awfully puny by today's standards. Opening that up to 688x480 or 712x496 and adjusting the SM124 to make that fill the entire screen... picture and screen aspect ratios then match, picture detail becomes large enough for these abused old eyes to easily see, and I get to work on full page width in Calamus. In fact, I prefer the overscanned SM124 to the Moniterm for Calamus font work with my editor of choice, GENUS, because of the "magnification" the expanded overscanned SM124 provides. Cost effective: a $2 switch, some wire and a file download. And will work on all ST's, not just Mega's. Or spend $100 or so for the commercial version. For the computer hobbyist on a limited budget, overscan's the biggest video improvement for the least money. Whatever happened to Norm's Color Board? Will we see a Wuztek version? ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 17 Sat Jun 29, 1991 R.NELSON123 [R.NELSON123] at 02:10 EDT I did the overscan mod on my Mega tonight and it works, sort of..... I typing on the large screen now, however the right half inch or so looks as though it's folded over or something it faded and when the mouse cursor is pushed into it, it reverses and backs out. I ran Dynacadd and the Icon pad was entirely scrambled. Calamus looks OK except for the folding effect. Is this an positioning adjustment? It would seem not to be since there is still a half an inch of black border beyond the right illuminated border. I haven't fiddled with the monitor yet, but I do have Jack Durre's piece on adjusting the monitor. Rick ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 18 Sat Jun 29, 1991 R.WOODBRIDG1 [Rob] at 17:15 EDT Mike, Thanks for the description of overscan. How would this affect someone who has already expanded his SM124 screen area by adjusting the CRT yoke magnets per an old text file here in ST library? (No problem to go back in and squeeze it back down, I imagine...) Thanks again! ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 19 Sun Jun 30, 1991 N.WEINRESS at 02:23 EDT M.Hopwood, thanks. I did look into those uploads. R.Nelson, yes that is an adjustment needed. It sounds like you are still outputting data to the screen as it has already started retracing to the beginning of the next line. Mike, okay on those programs. I am looking for info on how to alter the horizontal and vertical counts, which the software for overscanning accomplishes. I want to play some games with the color board, which is on a crash course of design. I have my health back (or, at least enough of it to work on this) and DEKA is out of the way. So do look for a product..."real soon now"! Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 20 Sun Jun 30, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 07:58 EDT Rick - hold down your control key while booting in overscan. That'll bring up an overscna adjustment screen. Adjust your picture according to the instructions on that screen until the foldover is gone. Oversan is currently offsetting your picture too far to one side. Rob - the only effect on you is that you don't have to learn how to open up the SM124 to expand your screen size. Fun getting the glue off those yoke magnets so you could adjust them, wasn't it? 640x400 is a 1.6x1 width-height ratio. On my old (1986) SM124 I ran overscan at 688x512, which is a 1.34 ratio. The physical screen is about 1.35, so I'm able (when I get the monitor repaired) to fill the entire screen with a properly proportioned picture. I had some visual distortion - mostly from the screen curvature at the extreme corners, but it was worth it to gain the working screen area. Try it - I think you'll like it! BTW - Have any of you tried Zephyr's "Pixel Wonder" yet? There ad in the new AtariUser claims 758x528 on an SM124 and 640x400 in 4 colors on a multisynch. Sounds very interesting for a price of only $89. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 21 Sun Jun 30, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 21:18 EDT Norm - If you're looking at the overscan source code, don't overlook the KP Overscan file. That allegedly corrects a couple of flaws in the way overscan controls its screen. From you or someone else who knows programming: is there any way the overscan (or overscan 60 or KP overscan) code can be modified to yield more than 480 vertical pixels? To put it another way, is there any reason why overscan should not be able to put out 800x600 in mono on a multisynch? Another question: Instead of replacing my dead SM124, can I use the NEC GS2A? I seem to remember asking this question before, but advancing age and mental infirmity... ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 22 Sun Jun 30, 1991 SANDY.W [RT SysOp] at 22:09 EDT Old messages in this topic may be found in file #19980 in the Software Library. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 23 Mon Jul 01, 1991 LRYMAL [Larry Rymal] at 00:03 EDT Mike, You asked if the NEC GS2A can be used. Yes! It can. I have used it for a couple of years now and it is better in that window sizing can be done with front controls, and internal adjustments for different computers (each pot is labeled for Mac II, IBM, etc....no Atari, though...grin) can be done. This means that vertical borders can reach the top and bottom edges. The GS2A can be used with the various multisync adaptor boxes for the ST or, you can discard the connector and hook up an ST video connector, grounding the mono-detect line and hooking horizontal to horizontal, vertical to vertical, etc. You will have an excellent image. I'm being very simplistic in the hookup, but it is really straight forward. Just follow the pin assignments for the ST video and NEC pinouts. The assignments are in the two manuals. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 24 Mon Jul 01, 1991 R.GRANT11 [Ron @ GXRSYS] at 02:34 EDT Larry, I agree with you on the GS2A; it's the only multisynch monitor I've seen that exceeds the picture quality of the SM124 itself, in ST High Res. Colour Multisynchs have their own reasons for existence; I can forgive them if they don't do ST High that well, but if you ARE looking for a good multisynch (actually, tri-sync) replacement for the SM124, the GS2A is the ticket. I wonder how high you COULD push the ST's video output if you knew that it was destined for a monitor that had the ability to do 800x600? ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 25 Mon Jul 01, 1991 J.GNIEWKOWSK [Johnny] at 07:35 EDT A quick note to all who answered my Moniterm vs Overscan question: I ordered the Autoswitch-Overscan ($105) and it installed wonderfully (although I wasn't happy with _all_ my solder joints, they seem to be working). The 25% increase is great! Thanks again! John ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 26 Mon Jul 01, 1991 DAVESMALL at 20:50 EDT BTW, Spectre 3.0 and below DO NOT work with these overscan mods in monochrome. We tried (hard) but it appears that the black bars on the edge of the monitor are written in software, rather than any hblanking in hardware, and the Mac is ultra-picky about how its video RAM is laid out. It hates something like overscan making video non-contiguous. "Still waiting for an inspiration..." -- thanks, Dave / Gadgets ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 27 Mon Jul 01, 1991 LRYMAL [Larry Rymal] at 22:49 EDT Ron, Like you, I wonder how far the ST's video output could be pushed. I am certain that it can go to the moon, but would it be affordable when compared against other platforms? My dream, but I doubt that it will ever be, is for a cheap quality portrait monitor for the ST. You can get 'em for the Mac Classic for under $500.00. That includes EVERYTHING. Dave, Durn, I was hoping that you were going to say that Overscan was now working with Spectre. Makes me want to gnash my teeth and break IC legs when I watch the Amax Mac emulation with its variable screen size selection abilities. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 28 Tue Jul 02, 1991 N.WEINRESS at 01:02 EDT Mike, thanks for the info. We had a local who designed an overscan, which he brought here to my house and I saw it producing soomething like 800 x 600 in color on my old multisync ( a Diamond Scan). The problem is that the horizontal rate gets so slow that the flicker is very objectionable. I am trying to determine how he adjusted the sync rates. I'll look at the KP code. Norm *s ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 29 Tue Jul 02, 1991 ICDINC at 08:30 EDT But Larry.... While gnashing your teeth don't forget about the $300 video card and $350 monitor required to get that Amax display looking as good as the .. GCR on a SM124 monitor. ;-) - TOM - ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 30 Tue Jul 02, 1991 LRYMAL [Larry Rymal] at 09:00 EDT Tom, >...don't forget about the $300 video card and $350 monitor required >to get that Amax display looking as good as the GCR on a SM124. Admittedly, the only Amax setup that I have played with was on an Amiga 3000 and no card was necessary. But then, the 3000 is an awfully expensive video card! grin. I have no idea what it takes for lower cost Amigas to display Amax decently. But on the 3000, one merely selects whatever screen size he wants. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 31 Tue Jul 02, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 23:31 EDT Thanks, guys! Norm - I knew there had to be a hitch in producing over 500 scan lines, otherwise the original SW should have been set up for more than it is. Nonetheless I'd love to see overscan patched to be adjustable up to 800x600. There are times I could live with objectionable flicker in order to see that much more of a Calamus page. (with the Moniterm at home, I still have to have some kind of a mono monitor at work - the Moniterm AIN'T portable). Larry - Best Elect. shipped me a bunch of ST video connectors recently. Should be easy enough to build a bastard cable to hook up to the NEC. If we can't get the old SM124 repaired cheaply, that's the monitor I'll be getting. It should mate well with overscan. Dave - Did you guys read the original overscan documentation (the English translation)? It seemed to me to be very clear on the method overscan used. I can send you just that doc if you haven't seen it. Spectre's awesome on the Moniterm, but that's the "high-priced spread." It would really be helpful to have Spectre work with overscan. Ron - Thanks for the NEC plug. I trust your eyesight. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 32 Wed Jul 03, 1991 N.WEINRESS at 23:50 EDT OK, Mike, I figured out how to do 800 x 600 ata reasonable vertical rate... the problem is, it will require a multisync monitor (or, at least, a VGA one). Or, are you talking about monochrome? I could do 800 x 600 for a SM124 without much sweat. Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 33 Thu Jul 04, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 07:24 EDT Monochrome, Norm. I may end up with an NEC GS2A (did I get that right?) as my second location monitor, and it would be fantastic to have overscan using the NEC's full 800x600 capacity! ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 34 Sat Jul 06, 1991 N.WEINRESS at 00:13 EDT Color, Mike....800 x 600 x 256 colors! But then, it ought to drive a GS2A without any problem. Can the GS2A reproduce a grey scale? ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 35 Sat Jul 06, 1991 LRYMAL [Larry Rymal] at 09:45 EDT Norm, The GS2A is advertised as reproducing a grey scale and before I bought mine, it was showing off the most beautiful grey scale demo that I've ever seen. The store had it hooked up to an IBM grey scale demo. I sure was disappointed that the ST doesn't transmit grey scale. But, as a monochrome monitor, the GS2A is very hard to beat. It costs a bit more than the Atari SM124 but is a far more versatile monitor. I hope you guys can really do something with it. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 36 Sat Jul 06, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 18:38 EDT Norm, you were talking of modifying the existing overscan software here, weren't you? What I'd like to see at this point is a modified version of the overscan s/w that can be set for 800x600 mono (for using Calamus with a GS2A). That same res in color may well be of interest to others, but the current Calamus needs mono. GS2A (Ithink) is a grey scale monitor. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 37 Mon Jul 08, 1991 N.WEINRESS at 00:41 EDT Hmm? No, Mike, I just want to see how others altered the ST output to achieve overscan,,,,but you've given me ideas...hi res monochrome and gray scale! Larry, how is the gray scale transmitted to the GS2A? ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 38 Mon Jul 08, 1991 LRYMAL [Larry Rymal] at 08:50 EDT Norm, I'd guess that gray scale is transmitted to the GS2A via a video card. When I first got this monitor, I mistakenly thought that it would convert color to gray scale--shows how much I know. Well, it won't. You have to have a video card that dishes it out. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 39 Wed Jul 10, 1991 N.WEINRESS at 00:48 EDT Thanks, Larry. I guess what I was really asking is how many lines of info they send to the monitor, and in what format, etc. The book on the GS2A should give a clue about that. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 40 Wed Jul 10, 1991 E.KRIMEN [Ed Krimen] at 02:02 EDT Hmm, I had thought that the GS2A *would* convert color to grayscale. Are you sure you don't need a multisync switchbox? Have you tried sending the color signal (disabling the monochrome detect on the ST) to the monitor? What kind of connection/cable do you have between your ST and GS2A? ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 41 Wed Jul 10, 1991 LRYMAL [Larry Rymal] at 19:11 EDT Norm, I have the monitor manual in hand here. The manual claims that the gray scale input is analog with "Unlimited Gray Scales". Its resolution is rated at 800 Horizontal * 600 Vertical. Let me know more what you are after. Or better yet, I'd be happy to photocopy the tech pages and mail them to you via Postal Snail. Tell me what to do. Ed Krimen, One of the reasons that I bought the GS2A was precisely for Gray Scale on my ST. When you boot in in color, the horizontal display is much too wide, wrapping on top of itself. Plus, sync is all but impossible. Boot in monochrome and you get a beautiful picture. I've tried adjustments, many things. It'd be great if someone could do it. I've use the OmniSwitch, but got the same results going directly to the ST. If someone can figure out how to get gray scale from the ST, it would be great. I'd love to see Spectrum pics on this thing. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 42 Fri Jul 12, 1991 N.WEINRESS at 00:35 EDT Larry, send me copies of the "tech pages". I might be able to figure out what you need to do to get it to work for you. Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 43 Fri Jul 12, 1991 LRYMAL [Larry Rymal] at 19:25 EDT Norm, I'll be mailing you photocopies of the tech pages for the NEC GS2A. Oh, have you or Paul had time to send that new chip yet? I sent back the custom chip about 10 days ago, I think. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 44 Sat Jul 13, 1991 K.SCHAFER4 [Necromancer] at 15:30 EDT Norm, are you still working on "norm's color card"? ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 45 Sun Jul 14, 1991 N.WEINRESS at 00:36 EDT Larry, I haven't gotten the chip from Paul. We think (and pray) that we are at the "final" version of the program. I have not seen a phantom mouse click in a couple of weeks. There was also a problem with some games, the ccause of which was a misinterpretation on my part, now corrected. I'll bug Paul . K.Schafer, "Norm's color board is evolving into a product to be sold by Omnimon Peripherals. I've been solidly into it's design for the last few weeks. Hang in there, it _is_ going to happen, and fairly soon. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 46 Sun Jul 14, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 16:48 EDT I looked at the source code for the latest (pd) modified overscan. To my simple nonprogrammer's eye, it looked like a programmer would have to change one or two numbers on two lines of the code to take mono overscan from 688x480 to 800x600. Whether video output from the ST could keep up with such a maximum I have no idea. Anybody with an assembly language compiler willing to compile the code (and maybe check the resolution coding to see if this should work)? For that matter, is there a pd assembly language package in the library? ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 47 Mon Jul 15, 1991 JLS [John STanley] at 06:18 EDT Mike, The Sozobon C compiler (File #12375) includes an assembler and linker along with the compiler. Assuming the overscan source is straight 68000 asm with no fancy extensions, you should be able to compile the asm code and link it without having to know any C and without having to download the Sozobon (dLibs) libraries. ... JLS ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 48 Tue Jul 16, 1991 N.WEINRESS at 00:12 EDT Mike, which PD version of oversnan are you perusing? Inquiring plagerists want to know! <:)) ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 49 Thu Jul 18, 1991 J.ALLEN27 at 22:47 EDT Yeah Mike, please tell us where to get it, I need to provide an 030'd overscan driver eventually. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 50 Fri Jul 19, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 23:02 EDT Hmmm, some interest! What I'm looking at is OVERSCAN.S version 1.6, written by Gebauer and Isakovic and "slightly changed (shrinked)" by Klaus Pedersen. Revision dated 15.05.91. Came from GEnie file KP Overscan. GEnie also has source code for the original overscan and overscan 60 (works with 60hz color). KP overscan is supposed to have cleaned up some "byte boundary" problems. Unfortunately, color support is 50hz. From the credits, it was done in "TurboAss 1.26" - I'm totally illiterate at programming, so can't tell whether it pulls in any library material or not. As I posted, to a nonprogrammer it LOOKS like a simple matter to plug in, say, "800" where the "Screentab:" code shows "640" and "600" where it shows "480" for the mono numbers. There are other figures in that area of the code that I suppose would have to change: "Bytes pro Zeile" (bytes per counter? - additional bytes?), "VideoAdd <> Memtop Offset", "v_bas_add <> Memtop Offset". A GEnie search under "overscan" should turn up all of the pd versions. What intrigues me is that you should be able to program overscan for 800x600 mono, because screen size is software-controlled. Whether the ST can "read" to the monitor fast enough to actually produce an 800x600 picture I have no idea. It's too much resolution for an SM124, but sure would be interesting to see if it would work with an NEC GS2A. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 51 Tue Jul 23, 1991 J.ALLEN27 at 00:10 EDT I would doubt you can get that high up. All overscan does is regain some video space that Atari had given away to ease manufacturing. So overscan doesn't increase the Atari's resolution, it just allows the true max to be used. Of course, the true max varies from machine to machine...which is why Atari cut it down on purpose...uniformity and no fine monitor adjustments during manufacture. Now the Megascreen contraption does truly stretch things beyond the STs design, but even it doesn't increase the pixel rate...nanoseconds/pixel...so you have to give up something. In this case it's vertical refresh rate...go too slow and your eyeballs start a bouncing...-!-..- !-.. ;-) ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 52 Tue Jul 23, 1991 TOWNS [John@Atari] at 15:49 EDT The nice way of looking at this is that the 68000 in your ST is designed to run at 8 Mhz. There is a small chance that you might be able to push the CPU to run faster.. maybe at 12 Mhz. The CPU really isn't designed to run this fast reliably, but some of them will handle it. Same thing with the video SHIFTER. It isn't designed to do OverScan, but on your machine.. It might be able to handle it. -- John ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 53 Tue Jul 23, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 20:55 EDT I'd forgotten that point, Jim. Overscan does just modify the machine so the "border" area can be program-driven. Total video area output wouldn't change. Oh, well. John, we're five years down the road from the introduction of the 1040ST for $999 - howcum we don't have a 1040TT selling at $999? Then we wouldn't have to be messing around with all this oddball stuff. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 54 Wed Jul 24, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 19:58 EDT According to the original pd overscan docs, the max mono picture generatable is 800x500 pixels. While 800x600 would make for a better-proportioned picture on a multisynch monitor, 800x500 gives the same screen aspect ratio as 640x400 and offers a considerable increase in working space for DTP. With the GS2A costing about $50-60 more than an SM124 and overscan costing less than $5 in parts outlay, it's the most effective cost/benefit ratio of any screen enhancement. Design for a $999 "1040TT": 16mhz 68030 uncached in an updated STe case, SIMM sockets for up to 4 meg like the STe, mush keyboard, the TT TOS, no provision for TT fastram or VME cards. THAT would blow the Amiga 500 away, where the STe won't. Jim Allen, Dave Small etal could then design hardware upgrades for it to their hearts' content. Also no math chip - maybe an empty socket. If OEM pricing on the 16 mhz -030 isn't too high to make this feasible, it seems workable. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 55 Thu Jul 25, 1991 J.ALLEN27 at 00:31 EDT It would be interesting to really try and push the shifter's limits by using a faster master clock...36 or 40 Mhz. That would truly increase the pixel rate, and the absolute resolution. I wonder if any of the overscan gurus have tried? ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 56 Thu Jul 25, 1991 R.NELSON123 [R.NELSON123] at 18:54 EDT Some "interesting" effects have been happening with my SM124 lately. The screen has become very wiggly. That is, little quivers go up and down and the raster serpentines. I'd be blaming it on the three air conditioners competing for voltage with my computer, but it seems to be software dependent... The Neodesk top is rock solid. (Software Voltage Regulator? Neat, Dave!) Any one have any thoughts. Overscan installed two weeks ago and work fine till yesterday........ Th Th Th a a a a kkk kss n n R R Ri c ckkk ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 57 Thu Jul 25, 1991 J.ALLEN27 at 23:47 EDT Your monitor is about to bite the dust...just be patient ;-) I'm on my forth, they seem to pass through the wiggle stage on the way to "fade to black". ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 58 Mon Jul 29, 1991 W.LORING1 [BL.A.ST] at 19:06 EDT Hey guys, I know I'm coming into this discussion kinda late... Has anyone looked into the possibility of editing the latest Overscan software to work with 60hz color monitors? It'd be nice to have a TOS-legal version running at 60hz. ...bill ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 59 Tue Jul 30, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 07:04 EDT Bill, the "ideal" would probably be a combination of PK overscan and overscan 60. I don't think anyone has tried to contact either of the authors (the programmers who made the modifications). ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 60 Tue Jul 30, 1991 DAVESMALL at 21:17 EDT Can some kind soul with more time than I (this does not narrow field much) tell me the max resolution obtainable from overscan in color? I tried looking it up in my autoswitch-overscan manual, but it's all in German, and I'm afraid that while I now know the price of Swiss Francs in German Marks (I *think* that's what the number was), I don't know the X&Y "reasonable rez "in color. To be a tad blunt, I'm asking in the event Color Quickdraw comes up; what can a *user* who can't afford a high-power color board & monitor get out of an overscanned SM1224? I'm not promising, etc, etc. I'm past 29 years, have 3 time diverters (all aged below 10 for max diversion), and thusly am not precisely the same person I was during development of other emulators.. see the quotation by Heraclitus. -- gracias, Dave / Gadgets ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 61 Thu Aug 01, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 01:02 EDT It should be right there in the manual...Farberxxxxxxx and some dimensions recognizable to english speakers. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 62 Thu Aug 01, 1991 N.WEINRESS at 01:12 EDT Dave, I've got the same German manual. With lump in the throat, and German- English dictionary in hand (im handt?), I'll try to answer your question. I have to do some experimenting, in regard to my own "high-powered" color board, so I'll see what I can find. Norm (designer extraordinaire) :) ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 63 Fri Aug 02, 1991 N.WEINRESS at 01:16 EDT Found it! No, no, Jim...it's "Erreichbare Aufloesungen"! God, I wish I was a typemetal salesman in Germany...I'd be richer than Sam Walton. Dave S. The maximum resolutions with an SC1224, using this Overscan unit, at 60 Hz, is 752 x 240 in medium res; and 384 x 240 in low res. At 50 Hz, they squeeze in 280 lines in both, with the same horizontals. Using an average multisync monitor, it's 400 x 240 (low); 816 x 240 (med) and 720 x 480 (high)...again at 60 Hz. Hope that is useful, Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 64 Fri Aug 02, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 19:35 EDT With pd overscan, my color monitor shows 800*236 in medium rez (using the overscan 60 program to provide 60hz synch. Source code indicates total pixels transmitted to the monitor as 400*280 low rez, 832*280 med, and 672*480 high rez. Enlglish ST World's 4th Quarter 1990 review of the commercial overscan product lists "typical overscan resolutions" as: Monitor low res medium high SM124 672x480 minimum TV set 384x264 768x264 NEC 3D 400x280 816x280 736x480 I assume that's on 50hz monitors which will yield maybe 30 lines vertically more than 60hz. Mike Valent (user ordinaire) ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 65 Fri Aug 02, 1991 W.LORING1 [BL.A.ST] at 21:14 EDT Well Dave, The docs that came with the PD overscan program here on GEnie say that medium rez can achieve 840x284. In low they claim 420x284. I'm currently getting 720x232. I used to get 720x240, but that was at 50hz. What's a 'Color Quickdraw?' Some Mac thing? ...bill ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 66 Fri Aug 02, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 22:24 EDT Bill, it's a McThing ;-) ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 67 Sun Aug 04, 1991 W.LORING1 [BL.A.ST] at 22:15 EDT Jim, Ahh, McThanks. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 68 Thu Aug 15, 1991 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 00:04 EDT I always wondered about overscanning. Supposedly, ST's need a hardware modification to do it. However, how do they do it on some of those neat European ST demos and also the dark blue stripes on the sides of the screen with Digispec? Everything I've heard about overscanning on the ST/STE has me terribly confused about the whole thing! ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 69 Thu Aug 15, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 07:17 EDT From what I've read, the original overscannning was done solely in software on some of the European demos. That involved a lot of software "overhead" and tricky programming. The hardware solution (ST/Mega only as far as I know) was devised to give overscan capability to ALL programs that followed GEM screen display rules. That EXCLUDES commercial games, but includes almost all modern (post 1988) applications programs. STe/Mega STe has a different display hardware setup. As far as I know, no one has devised an overscanning setup for those machines at this point. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 70 Fri Aug 16, 1991 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 03:27 EDT Well, then why don't more developers use software overscanning for some graphics/animation programs. I guess it's because they don't want to get chewed out by someone sometime for "breaking the rules!" ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 71 Fri Aug 16, 1991 MUSE [Tomas] at 03:58 EDT Are there any drawbacks to having the overscan mod? ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 72 Fri Aug 16, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 18:05 EDT Whatever I write concerns the pd overscan modification only - I have no experience with the commercial circuit board/software product. I don't see any drawbacks to "having" the overscan mod installed. The only external sin of it will be a spdt switch, and that is nothing more than an enable/disable switch. With the switch in the disable position, you have a stock ST - period. Drawbacks in using overscan would be the same as you'd have with any hardware hack. Some programs work wonderfully in overscan, some work but show quirks, some don't work at all. Don't work: Games don't work. Spectre (any version) does not work. Programs hard-coded to STock ST resolutions don't work. Quirky: Early GEM-based applications such as Word Writer, 1st Word Plus sort- of work. They'll give you enlarged windows, but work done in the expanded area of the screen may not "take" properly. Revolver will switch programs, but its selection and slide-in screens are hard-coded. Thunder will appear to work at first, then quit working. These work NICELY: PageStream, Calamus, Publisher ST, Aladdin, Easy Draw, Touchup, Dr Bob's MVG, STalker/STeno, Calamus Outline, Quick ST (but not Turbo ST), LDW Power (but not OPUS, alas). With the exception of Spectre, this list also applies to Moniterm usage. Spectre does work on the Moniterm (and Turbo ST has a hard-coded version for the Moniterm). ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 73 Fri Aug 16, 1991 J.CRASWELL [Jay] at 20:42 EDT P.S. Spectre also works with the Dover Research cards! ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 74 Fri Aug 16, 1991 W.LORING1 [BL.A.ST] at 21:58 EDT Software Overscan isn't used because it's -very- cpu intensive. There's not much time left to do anything after you've stolen the screen. Hardware overscan eliminates the software tricks, and thus doesn't add the cpu overhead. You will notice a slowdown in some screen drawing functions (scrolling especially), but that's simply because your machine now has more stuff to move. The TT suffers from the same problem. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Mike, You say PageStream works fine... Are you using 2.1? My version of 2.1 doesn't draw properly in color overscan. Is it okay in mono? ...bill ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 75 Fri Aug 16, 1991 DAVESMALL at 22:51 EDT Spectre was fixed once for overscan, but we missed something. Give us another rev to tweak it just a tad. -- thanks, Dave / Gadgets ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 76 Sat Aug 17, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 09:31 EDT Thanks, thanks, Dave / Gadgets! When we questioned overscan support as you were finishing up Spectre v 3.0 I kind of figured that your inability to implement it came more from lack of time than lack of ability to devise a programming trick to support overscan's software resolution control. Looking forward to the rev. Bill, I referred to the old 1.8x PageStream version. All my DTP fiddling so far has been done in mono. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 77 Sun Aug 18, 1991 R.FLASHMAN [Rick@Gribnif] at 13:32 EDT Any semi-newer version of 1st Word Plus works fine with any extended resolution. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 78 Mon Aug 19, 1991 R.RICHARDS2 [Roger] at 19:11 EDT Is anyone interested in starting a new Topic for the Moniterm and ISAC video boards? It seems to me that those who used to discuss these two items in this topic would not be that interested in overscan discussion as it would be unlikely they would use both means of extending their screen resolution. Just a suggestion. ...Roger ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 79 Mon Aug 19, 1991 SANDY.W [RT SysOp] at 19:44 EDT Roger - It is true the Moniterm topic vanished under the flood of overscan messages, but there is a topic for the ISAC. It is topic #28 in this category. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 80 Tue Aug 20, 1991 T.GILL7 [GILLT] at 18:56 EDT I am thinking of going for the Moniterm closeout deal. The main thing that I was wondering is whether the screen display time will get much worse in Pagestream? Does the large moniter slow down the screen redraws a lot or will I hardly notice any difference? Will Pagestream still be usable on my Mega ST with the Moniterm? Also, will Turbo ST or Quick ST work still on the Moniterm? Thanks much, Tyson ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 81 Tue Aug 20, 1991 SANDY.W [RT SysOp] at 19:46 EDT Turbo ST works fine on the Moniterm. Screen redraws do take longer. I don't know about PageStream specifically, but the difference is quite noticeable for every program I have used that makes use of the big screen. Most of the time it is not bad, but occasionally it can be aggravating if it is a complex screen. On the other hand, some activities take less time to complete, as you save the time you would spend moving around in a window. A T16 or other accelerator is also quite helpful. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 82 Tue Aug 20, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 21:00 EDT Sandy, now the Moniterm topic's vanished? A few months ago it was the overscna topic that disappeared. Oh well. The "ST expanded video options" topic was hoped to be the "general" info board, covering basics of overscan, the Moniterm, ISAC, ALBERTT, Matrix etal and pointing more specific interest to the individual topics for those interested in a particular solution. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 83 Tue Aug 20, 1991 SANDY.W [RT SysOp] at 21:58 EDT Mike - Well...this is sort of the topic that stayed off topic. The old overscan topic vanished after it had been inactive for a couple months (and it was archived to the Software Library.) This was the Moniterm topic up until the last time I archived it. At that time I thought the overscan discussion was just a passing thing, so I did not move it. It turned out I was very wrong. After about 40 more messages of overscan discussion without one Moniterm message, I sort of took the coward's way out, renamed the topic, and did a minor edit on the description. That last message is the first Moniterm message we have had in a very long time. The "ST expanded video options" topic (Topic 35 in this category) sounds like a good solution to me. I guess I hadn't noticed that it was to include the Moniterm before. Perhaps I should do a little edit to the description to make it clearer and move the Moniterm messages? I haven't had a whole lot of sleep lately, and I think it is beginning to show. So much for the trials and tribulations of a topic cop. :-) ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 84 Tue Aug 20, 1991 T.GILL7 [GILLT] at 22:44 EDT Sandy, thanks for replying to my question in this topic. Aladdin still told me it was Moniterm. Sounds like the slower screen redraw may not be too bad especially if I don't loose Turbo. If I need more horsepower after getting the monitor, I can always talk my boss into buying an accelerator, right? . Tyson ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 85 Tue Aug 20, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 23:51 EDT As one who uses the Moniterm with Calamus mostly, mikey comment may not directly apply to PageStream but... I don't see why it shouldn't. I have a Mega 4 with Jim Allen's newer version of the T-16. An Adspeed should be equivalent and a T-20 signifigantly faster. Screen redraws using either QST 2 or Turbo ST's Moniterm version seem quite fast - not signifigantly slower than on the SM124. SCROLLING is much slower, but then there's four times the screen area to be scrolled. One thing sure - if you DTP with a Moniterm, you'll never be able to tolerate the SM124's 640x400 for it again. And their closeout price represents a tremendous abrgain for the card/monitor. The equivalent monitor alone for the TT costs more. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 86 Tue Aug 27, 1991 J.CRASWELL [Jay] at 12:25 EDT Messages about the Viking Atari / Moniterm are always welcome in 28 the Dover Research area. Since I built the Moniterm card I have always been happy to field questions. Some I might not know but I try. Screen draws are (of course) slower because of the extra ram. Scrolling is the most noticable speed problem between the original Atari640 mode and Moniterm/ISAC/ALBERT. B.T.W. I very much appreciate the nice comments about the Moniterm. Talk (or is it Type)to you soon, Jay ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 87 Tue Aug 27, 1991 SANDY.W [RT SysOp] at 16:19 EDT The Moniterm also has its own topic now. Topic 25 in this category. :-) ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 88 Tue Sep 03, 1991 DAVESMALL at 21:35 EDT Well, if you promise not to quote me ... *chuckle* I seem to recall (maybe Doug remembers better; the 3.0 development is foggy in THIS > 30 year old mind) that we *thought* the reason Overscan failed was that in Spectre 2.65(C or no), we assumed either standard color, mono, or moniterm, and hardwired it. We felt that because Overscan tells GEM to use a bigger screen and forces the hardware to do it, and we were insisting on 640 x 400, that was the bug. So we went through and made Spectre "read" from GEM the screen parameters -- you know, where in RAM the screen was located, the number of bytes across the screen is, how many scan lines high it was, (did you like that sentence tense change?), and so forth. Thennnn, we confidently announced Overscan should be fixed, and promptly got hit in the face with a whipped cream pie. See, in Spectre, which is just a Mac, it "thinks" you're a Mac, REAL bad. It has deep schizophrenia. The Mac has display memory that starts at $3a7000 (4 meg machine, but it echoes for you hardware jock types), and is, oh, 20-some K long (512 x 342, and I don't have a popup calculator here to give you exact numbers). You can SORT OF fiddle with the base of display memory and its size, under strict rules. One such rules is that DISPLAY MEMORY IS CONTIGUOUS; you can't have "gaps" in it (say, a "border"). EVERY darn byte in that display memory is used by the Mac. Yeah, I know that after the 128K ROMS (say, the Mac II), there was ALL kindsa neat stuff (wow, I'm mangling the language tonight) added to video, and yup, I've got two monitors on the Mac II's here, so I know all too well. But not in the 128K ROMS. The trip they pull in Overscan (1960's talk, wow) is they "draw" the black border on the sides of the screen. They don't let the monitor do it, they just literally draw in black in a stripe vertically. This takes up some bytes on each line of display memory, and gives the Mac absolute screaming anxiety attacks when it tries to _InitGraf and get rolling. I am sure that on the planet there is a human (or alien, I am not picky) that knows how to tell the Mac that PHYSICALLY, the screen is, oh, 100 bytes long, but the Mac is only to use 80 bytes ... and to "draw" a vertical line, you have to offset 100 bytes at a time. Unfortunately, I'm not alien, nor that human being. I don't yet know how. So, we were flat wrong when we said we fixed Overscan, but we had very \good reason to say we thought we did. (And indeed, many aftermarket monitor makers in Germany, as I found out recently, tell me that Spectre 3.0 makes their mono monitors work "out of the box" ... because we're reading params from GEM, which they have to set up as part of everyday business). The AutoSwitch OverScan people in Germany, and damn, that is a GREAT thing! Check it out! sent me an overscan kit free. They're ultra cool in software; a lot of stuff breaks on other overscans, but not on theirs. Anyway, they took pity on me and gave me a kit (I would've bought one, okay, but I didn't know about them and I was so tired at CeBIT I thought I was going to die). When Spectre is running on that kit okay, then I got this thing whipped, chained, and in bondage. Incidentally, FYI, IN GENERAL, except for the SM1224 Atari low/medres color monitor (or the Multisync thingo really for the TT but that can attach to the ST ... I forget the number, PCH something... where do they get these idiot product names?), COLOR BIGSCREENS FAIL ON SPECTRE. That's because 128K Mac ROMS DO NOT GROK the stuff that color requires, which is more then 1 bit per 1 dot on the screen.\ I hope this sorta sets the record straight, beg your tolerance, and return you to your regularly scheduled programming. (<-- pun) Hmmmm. Maybe if I trap InitGraf and change the params and and and or heck, maybe just beg for help in the Mac RT? -- thanks, Dave / Gadgets p.s. Neil Young says Rust Never Sleeps; I bet he came up with that title when he was as jetlagged as I am. 8 hours is nasty. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 89 Fri Sep 06, 1991 J.CRASWELL [Jay] at 16:42 EDT Dave S, Providing extra support for the colour modes would be GREATLY appreciated. The AlberTT card is 16 colour mode only. Its set up in memory just like the "Low Res" mode of the Atari. It has no duochrome mode like the ISAC. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 90 Tue Sep 10, 1991 L.EVANS8 at 20:57 EDT Hi folks, New to this topic, have read all but the arched postings. Need some info not listed here. I'm running an st 1040 stf and a 520 fm, both with TOS 1.2 and memory exp. Also, they are soon to both have T-16's. Is there any conflict so far? I noted in the overscan docs (1.6, the latest?) that it needs later TOS, but did not specify. Also, what is the difference between the variety of overscans out there. Seems to be a PD, and two or more commercially, one for $89, and another just over $100. Will they all work with Pstream 2.1 and TU? Will the PD version work with those prg's using 1.2? And does anybody know if there is soon to be a version of Bigscreen or monster that will work well with 1.2? And does anybody know if I asked enough questions for one night??? Thanks much in advance. Night all, Lance Evans @ The Presentation Group ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 91 Wed Sep 11, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 07:52 EDT PD version's the one I have experience with. 1. Works with 1.2 2. No conflict with T-16 3. Works fine with Pagestream 1.8 and with Touchup Been a long time since I upgraded from TOS 1.2 to 1.4, but I do remember using OScan with it. Memory expansion should not affect the situation. Understand, though, that this is not a plug-and-play installation. It's easy to follow the instructions for a rev 5 Mega, but you'd better know the machines to install it on a 520 or 1040. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 92 Sat Sep 14, 1991 L.EVANS8 at 14:29 EDT Mike, Thanks for the feedback. Any other thoughts out there? Any info on the for sale versions? Thanks, Lance Evans ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 93 Sun Oct 20, 1991 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 02:37 EDT So what is it about the STE that makes overscanning more difficult or at least incompatible with the overscanning "hacks" for the older ST's? Is it the way the new shifter works? ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 94 Mon Oct 21, 1991 K.HOUSER [Kevin Houser] at 19:28 EDT There is a mode to put the ST into an external sync mode. Its a really cool way to blank the screen with only one 'Poke' and can be reset with another poke. N.WEINRESS, maybe your friend with 800x600 color was putting the ST into external sync mode, and using his own sync generator circuit to get a slower Hsync & Vsync. Now if I can only figure out where I need to input my OWN H & V sync signals into the Shifter etc., you could probably get 800x600 on the good old SM124. Also, a hardware sync generator could eliminate the need for the SOFTWARE defined black stripes on the right border. |8*D -Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 95 Tue Oct 22, 1991 N.WEINRESS [IAAD Member] at 01:11 EDT Kevin, you _can_ get 800 x 600 or nearly on a SM124. The big black borders are the result of Atari using only a portion of the H display and V display periods. There is loads of time for additional H data and more V lines. There are products in Germany being sold to produce 1024 x 496 on a SM124. One is Overscan Reflex 1024. Contact: Overscan Gbr Isakovic, Hartmann,Jerchel Saentisstrasse 166 D-1000 Berlin 48 Germany Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 96 Tue Oct 22, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 19:13 EDT But there seems to be a vertical limit at less than 500 lines, doesn't there? Using pd overscan on a GS2A I get an easy 720 pixels horizontally, but either the software or the ST hardware won't take me cleanly beyond 480 pixels vertically. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 97 Sat Oct 26, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 02:19 EDT The Reflex card is a Mega video card, it does get up to 1024xsomething on the SM194, but only if you're lucky enough to have a great SM124. Running the SM124 at the higher bandwidths of overscanning can shorten its life span too ;- ) ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 98 Mon Oct 28, 1991 K.HOUSER [Kevin Houser] at 21:28 EST Jim, If one only reduces the H & V sync rates (dot clock the same) how would that hurt the SM124? Or if one left the H&V rates the same yet increased the bandwidth (dot clock) why should that damage it? Even if it went up in flames, it would be worth using it that way for around 3 (short lifespan) years since SM124's are inexpensive. |8*) -Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 99 Mon Oct 28, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 23:12 EST Had the opportunity(?) to install the commercial 'Autoswitch Overscan in a friend's Frankenstein 1040 this last weekend. 10 wires to solder in and 3 trace cuts but the instruction manual is first-rate, with diagrams of almost every ST/Mega variation ever made. Carefully following the instructions - carefully - should make for trouble-free installation by anyone familiar with the inside of his ST's case. The hardware/software combination's a considerable improvement over the pd overscan I have installed in my Mega. Resolution switching is done in software which can be configured to run some programs in overscan and others in normal rez. There's a utility program to handle programs like LDW Power which otherwise set their window borders outside the visible screen area, plus a screen saver which works in overscan mode. Color is software-switchable between 50hz and 60 hz and color appears much more stable than I get with OVERSCAN60. In all, I'm impressed with the picture expansion and capabilities - for the money, it's an excellent ST video enhancement. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 100 Tue Oct 29, 1991 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 01:11 EST I am looking for a way on my Mega 4 system with standard Atari mono monitor to expand the number of columns so that I can read full sentences when using proportional spacing with WordPerfect. Right now, since proportional spacing allows for more characters, the text goes off into the right margin and I can't see all the sentence on the screen at the same time, which I would very much like to do. My local dealer said he could install Overscan, for about $150, which would go into the CPU and then I'd put an overscan program into the auto folder. Would this solve my problem? Would I be able to see more text on the screen at the same time? I had thought I'd have to get a larger monitor, but the dealer said that wouldn't even make a difference since it's the RESOLUTION that determines how much of a sentence shows up on the screen (surpassing 80 columns). Does this make sense? He said Overscan would be the cheapest solution. I'm concerned too if there are any programs that would conflict with Overscan including any accessories or utilities. Please offer your advice. - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Monday, October 28, 1991 9:54:36 pm ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 101 Wed Oct 30, 1991 N.WEINRESS [IAAD Member] at 00:35 EST Jason, the figures from the manual for Autoswitch-Overscan from Germany show that it can accomplish 672 x 480 on a SM124, but can achieve 752 x 480 on an NEC Multisync GS, which aren't very expensive. But I think a charge of $150 to install overscan is a bit much. 752 is 98 columns of standard size. Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 102 Wed Oct 30, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 01:11 EST $150 is good for the Autoswitch Overscan, but not for just doing the PD overscan mod. As Mike said, it's well done, the SW is good, so it looks like a good choice. Kevin, increasing the horizontal rate, increases the stress on the horizontal gun circuit in the monitor, personally being on my 3rd monitor (hehe) I am tired of replacing them ;-) I'm sticking with normal mode, or the Moniterm...$799 complete, while they last. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 103 Wed Oct 30, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 18:48 EST Jason, your dealer's correct that it's the pixel count rather than physical size of the monitor. If you use Autoswitch Overscan with the SM124, you'll get at least 688 pixels horizontally, maybe as much as 704 pixels. On a multisynch such as the NEC GS2A, 720 pixels. The current 4/91 update (actually bug fix) of WordPerfect should work just fine in overscan mode. WP is sending me the upgrade and I should be able to report on it by the end of this week - I'll let you know the total number of columns it'll display both at 688 and at 720. My Moniterm's in for repair and if it weren't for overscan, I'd be going nuts trying to finish up the Calamus project I'm involved in. The old 640x400 just doesn't make it once you've had overscan to work with. (and overscan's nowhere near as pleasant as the Moniterm, but it's one H*** of a lot less expensive). Program conflicts: Where there is a problem with the earlier PD version of overscan, Autoswitch Overscan can easily be set to display programs with 'hard- coded' screen size in the standard ST resolutions. Once you have overscan set up, the resolution switching's all automatic. It's very neatly done. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 104 Wed Oct 30, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:46 EST The one last thing they could do, would be to set the res on a per program basis, but you can't go changing res's on all the ACCs that are loaded, they can't hack it. But it'd be neat ;-) That way, you wouldn't even have to do work, just run it and the res is set to the max for that program. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 105 Thu Oct 31, 1991 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 02:56 EST Mike, thanks for your message about Overscan and WordPerfect, in particular. I very much look forward to hearing from you how many columns you can see in WP with Overscan. Do you know if earlier versions than the 4/91 WP version will work with Overscan? - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Wednesday, October 30, 1991 11:43:36 pm ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 106 Thu Oct 31, 1991 K.HOUSER [Kevin Houser] at 19:43 EST Norm I thought Jason meant $100 for overscan + $50 installation=$150. That seems reasonable to me considering the hassle it saves him IMHO. We could do it ourselves (I did) much cheaper, but you gotta be sure you cut the right traces or bad news. -Kevin M.Q.Dev. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 107 Thu Oct 31, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 22:44 EST The copy of Worperfect that I bought used was the xx/1988 version, so I can't thus far comment on anything beyond that. That version is a miserable excuse for a commercial program. I hope to have the updated version late this week or early next. WordPerfect seems to be the ST's version of "Victor Hugo, alas." Jim, if I remember correctly from my glancing at the software part of the manual, you list the hard-coded res programs in an .INF file which Autoswitch overscan checks each time you initiate a program. If it's listed, you'll be automatically switched to normal res as the program boots. True that you can't set accessories to do that, but you've got to put the "blame" on either outdated programming or on the accessory's programmer if it was written in the last couple of years. I wish the Moniterm had some way of running 640x400 hard-coded programs like this. Did I read that the Matrix driver will do that? ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 108 Thu Oct 31, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:34 EST Mike, the Matrix M110 board has a 640x400 "emulation mode" where each pixel is actually 4 pixels on the screen. It's really neat, just plug in the Moniterm monitor and you have a great setup for demoing to large groups ;-) ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 109 Sat Nov 02, 1991 JWKUEHN [Wolf] at 17:45 EST My SM125 started blinking and after a while it was black. Luckily I has a spare monitor sitting here. I wonder whether the OVERSCAN I have built in (commercial unit) is affecting the life of the monitor? Is it worth repairing the monitor and which replacement parts are needed? Any suggestions are welcome. Thank you. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 110 Sat Nov 02, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 20:25 EST I've got three dead ones in the garage, never have figured out how to fix them ;-) This time, I didn't even try to adjust the picture bigger, I'll just leave it alone and try for another 2-3 years use. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 111 Sun Nov 03, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 21:21 EST My buddy is reporting Drive A floppy disk reading problems with the Autoswitch Overscan software. Software - it's not with the hardware installation. Seems his machine (a 1040 with 4 meg JRI memory and PC Ditto II) will read the disk's 'first level' - it will show the usual window with files and folders. But he can't run a program or open a folder. Booting without the autoswitch overscan software, he has no problems. Any ideas? BTW - anyone know the latest autoswitch overscan s/w version #? ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 112 Sun Nov 03, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 22:06 EST A friend fixed one for me - works like new. There's an output transistor or amplifier or whatever that had gone bad. No way he could find the particular part that Goldstar used, so for a couple of bucks he either bypassed that circuit or found an easily obtainable substitute for it. Next time I talk to him I'll ask for specifics and pass them along exactly as he gives them to me. ("I know nossing offf zese sssings" claimed the oberleutinant) ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 113 Mon Nov 04, 1991 DHAMM [DAVE HAMM] at 03:49 EST On the SM124 by Goldstar the hor.output trans. is Q708 it's a bu806. Best Electronics sells it for $4.00 Also the bipolar cap c714 sometimes causes problems they also have that for $4.00. I don't have overscan in my machine but have the screen enlarged since day one and have never had a problem. I have repaired several for other people and these two parts are all I've needed so far. Dave Hamm ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 114 Mon Nov 04, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 19:59 EST Thanks a million, Dave! That little gem'll save more than one user the cost of a replacement monitor. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 115 Wed Nov 06, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 18:54 EST I think it was Jason Saffer asking about this: Got the 4/91 WordPerfect update today. It works fine in overscan. Using the window expanded full-screen, WP displays 82 columns of text at 688*480 and 86 columns at 720*480. 82 columns on screen should be enough to handle your proportional fonts. Did not check # of columns at 640*480 - but then you already know... ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 117 Sat Jan 18, 1992 N.JOHNSON2 at 17:11 EST Has anyone had any problems with autoswitch OverScan and Cubase version 2.0 sequencer. The problem is with Quick ST 3.02. Cubase locks up about 1 minute after playing a sequence. It's too bad because with the extra pixcels the speed up of Quick ST is really needed. Autoswitch OverScan works perfectly with most all other programs. It's great. Norm. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 118 Thu Jan 30, 1992 F.BELL1 [Frank @ Home] at 01:35 EST Norm, I beleave I read someplace, a German magazine I think, that Cubase doesn't work on any graphic card nor on the Mega STE and TT. A new version is in the works if not already finished. Frank... ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 119 Sun Feb 02, 1992 N.JOHNSON2 at 12:46 EST Frank, Thanks for the reply. I guess I'll wait for the new version. Ndorm`` orm.. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 120 Mon Feb 17, 1992 T.FERREIRA at 21:47 EST HI. Can someone fill me in on this overscan board. Does it enhance the SC1 SC1224 to more resolution? If so, how much. Thomas Ferreira ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 121 Mon Feb 17, 1992 T.FERREIRA at 21:54 EST WHAT IS THE MAXIMUM RESOLUTION I COULD GET OUT OF MY SC1224 MONITOR? I would like anything above 600 x 400. I have a Mega 2 and SC1224. Could I get 600 x 350 or so? Tom Ferreira ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 122 Tue Feb 18, 1992 N.WEINRESS [Norm] at 00:07 EST Tom, according to the table in the Overscan manual, the best it will give you on an SC1224 is 752 x 240. There just isn't that much to gain in color and particularly, in vertical resolution (number of rows). Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 123 Tue Feb 18, 1992 F.BELL1 [Frank @ Home] at 01:29 EST Everybody running Overscan boards. If your planning to get TOS 2.06 you'll also need the very latest, v3.0zg, Overscan screen driver. I don't know how you get this in the States but if your in Europe just send in your orginal diskette to: OverScan GbR Saentisstr. 166 W-1000 Berlin 48 Germany If your in Germany the Overscan people just want a stamped return envolope - if your outside Germany add a little money to help cover postage. Frank... P.S. now I just hope TOS 2.06 works with my MegaScreen graphic card... ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 124 Wed Feb 19, 1992 DAVESMALL at 00:38 EST Now THAT is interesting. I wonder why TOS 2.06 makes a difference? -- thanks, Dave / Gadgets ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 125 Wed Feb 19, 1992 F.BELL1 [Frank @ Home] at 14:29 EST Don't know, but the TOS 2.06 difference must be small, easy to find and easy to fix. Frank... ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 126 Thu Feb 20, 1992 P.GRIFFITH2 [PGRIF] at 22:01 EST I recently did the Overscan mod on my Mega 2 ST w/rev. 5 motherboard. My problem is that there are no resitors in the R-15, R-16 positions and no transistor in the Q-10 position. These components were left off of my motherboard. Overscan does not work at all, but the machine works fine w/the switch in the normal position. Has anybody else run into this problem, and if so, how did you solve it? Thanks in advance for any help. Paul ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 127 Sat Feb 22, 1992 JWKUEHN [Wolf] at 00:31 EST Yes, my hard-ware OVERSCAN is not working with TOS 2.06; does anyone know a fix. It simply does not recognize the new TOS. It would be nice if we could get the fix down-loaded. Thanks for the help. Wolf ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 128 Sat Feb 22, 1992 K.SCHAFER4 [Necromancer] at 22:53 EST Paul, The *best* way to do the overscan mod (pd) is to use a 74ls00 chip (you might need to check that) I did the chip version on the mega2 I used to have, and it worked flawlessly, the chip sinks much less voltage, and is faster than the transistor version, niot to mention more reliable. the docs should be in the data base, I *believe eric mosier uploaded it. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 129 Sun Feb 23, 1992 P.GRIFFITH2 [PGRIF] at 03:29 EST Thanks for the info, I searched the data base and found only the same Overscan files that I already have. Anybody out there have any more information on this(the chip version of the upgrade). I am most intertested in getting this to work. Thanks. Paul ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 130 Mon Feb 24, 1992 W.LORING1 [BL.A.ST] at 19:34 EST Paul, If there are old messages archived from this topic, then the info is in there... I was gonna do the chip version, but never got around to it. The transistor version works fine for me, but it would be nice if it was faster. The chip you need is a 74LS00. I got three of 'em for $0.85. Pretty cheap. ...bill ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 131 Wed Mar 18, 1992 JWKUEHN [Wolf] at 01:32 EST I just received the update for the commercial OVERSCAN to run with the new TOS 2.06. Works great! However, it does not like QUICK ST. I tried version 2.10, STE and 3.0. Does anyone have experience with the right order. QST should run after OVERSCAN. Sofar I only managed to run version 3.0 last; the other versions come up first. Or is there a modified QST available which will run with both the new TOS and the up-dated OVERSCAN driver. Any suggestions are welcome. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 132 Wed Mar 18, 1992 F.BELL1 [Frank @ Home] at 16:21 EST Wolf, I don't run Overscan but I know many people do. Would it be possible to upload the driver to the GEnie Libraries or are there some restrictions. Frank... ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 133 Thu Mar 19, 1992 N.WEINRESS [Norm] at 00:57 EST Wolf, CodeHead Technologies will shortly release the successor to QST, to which they have the rights. It will likely be more compatible. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 134 Fri Mar 20, 1992 JWKUEHN [Wolf] at 02:17 EST Frank, I think the driver is copyrighted. There are people with closer contacts with OVERSCAN GmbH in Berlin than I have. Perhaps they could ask for permission to upload the driver. It is usefulk only to the person who has the hard-waref % + board anyway. Wolf ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 135 Wed Apr 22, 1992 J.RICE5 [Joe Rice] at 02:46 EDT I recently bought Autoswitch Overscan (Ver. 3.0zd) and am quite pleased with it. Unfortunately, I am having problems with Warp 9 from Codehead Software that I can't fix. When Warp 9 and Overscan are installed, I get a white band across the bottom 2 inches of the screen (in monochrome) as the other AUTO folder programs scroll up the screen. In addition, when I try to view text from Maxifile, I just get garbles chartacters or small vertical black lines. Evidently others are using Warp 9 and Overscan with no problems, so I'm wondering if there's some configuration option I've ovrlooked. I've tried switching the order of Warp 9 and Overscan in the AUTO folder, and I've tried with a stripped system at both 8 and 25mhz (T-25). I have a Mega 2 ST with 4 megs of RAM and TOS 1.2. Joe ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 136 Sat Apr 25, 1992 F.BELL1 [Frank @ Home] at 15:36 EDT Joe, First, up grade your TOS version to any version greater 1.2. Second, what screen resolution are you using. I the resolution has to be divizible by 8 or 16. Also check your connections on both the overscan broard and T25 - a loose connection causes all sorts of problems. Frank... ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 137 Tue Apr 28, 1992 J.RICE5 [Joe Rice] at 00:22 EDT Frank, Thanks for the reply. I'll check the connections again and I'm getting TOS 2.06 shortly, so that might fix the problem. Joe ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 138 Thu May 14, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 13:36 EDT Nothing like lighting a fire under my butt Joe ;-) ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 139 Sun May 24, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 14:06 EDT What does Overscan do and where do you get it? Does it use the whole screen or something? Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 140 Sun May 24, 1992 V.PATRICELL1 [Vince] at 15:45 EDT Ken Van, AutoSwitch OverScan is a commercial hardware and software product made in Germany that expands the pixels on ANY monitor, including the SM124, SM147, SC1224, or any multisync. It is reletively easy to install (knowledge of basic soldering is required) and the directions are easy to follow. It will work with any origional Atari ST or Mega (not STE). This product is very impressive. I just installed mine a few weeks ago and I really like it! It expands the pixels on a SM124 up to 704x480, a SC1224 up to 752x240, and a multisync monitor up to 768x480 in mono and 816x240 in color. It comes with an auto folder program and reads an INF file that is very configurable so that programs that are not compatable will automatically switch to the regular screen size. It is compatable with most software, though, and really makes a *big* difference when using PageStream or WordWriter. The desktop looks much nicer now, not nearly as cluttered. It has a setup program that lets you determine exactly how many pixels you want in each resolution (a large box that shows the border that you can shrink or enlarge with the arrow keys). My SM124 now has a very small black border of only about 1/2" to 3/4" and the screen on my SC1224 is expanded the full size of the monitor. Very nice! The official represenative for AutoSwitch OverScan in the USA is RIO computers, but they have been out of stock for several months. They have it in stock and ready for shipping at Joppa Computers (800)876-6040 and at Toad Computers (301)544-6943. The cost is about $100. ................................Vince ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 141 Sun May 24, 1992 A.CASSINO [Andy] at 19:16 EDT Vince, Wow, this overscan thingie sounds really radical! I have a couple of questions relating to the video quality, though. I gather the enhanced resolution is gained by actually enlarging the size of the image on the screen (hence the name, overscan, right)? So, is the image sharp from corner-to-corner? Is there any distortion (do lines of text bend at the corners)? Is there any flicker? I'm interested in these questions mostly for the SM124. I wonder why this product isn't very well known? It sounds like a nice, moderate-priced upgrade. Andy Cassino ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 142 Mon May 25, 1992 V.PATRICELL1 [Vince] at 18:56 EDT Andy, There is absolutely *no* loss of quality whatsoever on the SM124 (or the SC1224, for that matter) with the overscan. It just expands the image area by adding more pixels. The auto program says 17% larger screen the way I have the screen set up, which is a big difference. There isn't any flicker, either. The image is as sharp and clean as the image was before the Overscan mod, just larger. It's almost like having a mini Moniterm moniter. I read a lot of good things about this mod before purchasing it. I hear it is great on the new SM147 monitor, too! By the way, this mod can be preformed very inexpensively without having to buy the commercial version. I think the files and directions are in the libraries here on GEnie. The only problem with the PD version is that it does not allow autoswitching to the regular mode for incompatable programs. It is definitely worth the price of the AutoSwitch OverScan just to have complete compatability with all programs, something the Moniterm 19" moniter can't even claim. This mod is very popular over in Europe, since this is where it was designed. ................................Vince ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 143 Tue May 26, 1992 C.NICHOLLS [BILL] at 00:53 EDT If Overscan doesn't work on the STE or presumably Mega STE (which is what I have) is there something else that does the same thing for these machines? Bill ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 144 Wed May 27, 1992 A.CASSINO [Andy] at 00:29 EDT Vince, Thanks for the additional details about overscan! Andy ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 145 Mon Jun 01, 1992 B.MENAGH [Bill] at 19:01 EDT I'm considering the purchase of Autoswitch Overscan. Has anyone compiled a list of what programs do not work with it? I wonder about autobooting games since I assume that Autoswitch falls back to standard mode when it senses a program that does not fit the added pixels. Any comment appreciated. Bill ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 146 Mon Jun 01, 1992 V.PATRICELL1 [Vince] at 21:49 EDT Bill, AutoSwitch OverScan will not boot up in the overscan mode unless you put the driver in the auto folder, so basically if you do not have this driver loaded, your ST will work just like it always has. When this driver is loaded via the auto folder, it has a very versitile INF file that will let you boot in overscan or normal mode, have the desktop in either mode, and have any program or program type load in either mode. It also allows you to set the pixel size that you like specifically for each rez. It is compatable with most everything except a few PD programs, and you can easily have it autoswitch to the regular rez for these. (there is a few compatability problems with Warp 9, but Charles hopefully will have these fixed in a jiffy!). You have complete control over how overscan works with your ST. Very nice mod, indeed! ................................Vince ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 147 Tue Jun 02, 1992 DAVESMALL at 23:26 EDT I am not certain anymore, since so much has changed, but I would not guarentee Spectre under overscan. -- thanks, Dave / Gadgets ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 148 Wed Jun 03, 1992 S.GOLD6 [NorthStar] at 18:03 EDT Dave, Spectre 3.0 does not work with Auto-OverScan on. if you do not activate it Spectre 3.0 does work. Steve ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 149 Wed Jun 03, 1992 LEOTAYLOR [LEO] at 22:39 EDT I'm still waiting for RIO to ship my Overscan... Does anyone know if it will work with a Gadgets SST 68030? Sure would kill me if I have to put my 68000 back in to use it. RIO had no idea, said to call them and let them know if it works. They also didn't know if it worked with QUICKST v3, I suppose I should upgrade to WARP 9 if it is OVERSCAN compatible. Leo Taylor ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 150 Thu Jun 04, 1992 DAVESMALL at 18:25 EDT My *guess* would be, personally, that Overscan would not be offended by an SST 68030; OverScan is more into timing the DE signal. The software could be offended if it was not written to be 68030 compatible, but the AutoSwitch guys seemed mighty competent to me -- they had it running on a TT (!!) with a 68030 in it, and no one had any IDEA how! But that is just a guess. Strong recommendation you get on paper that you can return it if it fails with SST. -- thanks, Dave / Gadgets ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 151 Thu Jun 04, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 18:36 EDT The older PD Overscan works the same as Steve relates about Autoswitch. You always have Spectre working in "normal" mode. But, boy, does Spectre work on the Moniterm... too bad I can't stand the Mac's overcuteness! ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 152 Sat Jun 20, 1992 B.MENAGH [Bill] at 08:49 EDT I was just reading an article in ST FORMAT that Autoswitch Overscan does not work with TOS higher than 1.04. Since I was considering the purchase of this device AND Tini Turbo 030 it now seems inappropriate. would anyone have additional information to advise. Thanks, Bill. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 153 Sat Jun 20, 1992 S.GOLD6 [NorthStar] at 17:24 EDT You might wish to speak to Jim Allen about the Tiny Turbo 030 and AutoSwitch OverScan. He is currently working on my 1040STfm w/Turbo 025, JRI SIMM+, and AutoSwitch Overscan. As well as adding TOS 2.06 to the MIX. He should be in a good position to let you know. Come on down Jim ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 154 Sat Jun 20, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:05 EDT I know the Overscan folks and I'm sure they will tweak the SW to live with an 030 chip, if it doesn't know. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 155 Sun Jun 21, 1992 F.BELL1 [Frank @ Home] at 00:08 EDT Bill, The latest Autoswitch Overscan driver, v3.0zg, supports all TOSs >1.02. Also remember that Autoswitch doesn't run on STEs or TTs. Jim Allen has done extensive Turbo testing with many different graphic cards including Autoswitch. Frank... ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 156 Tue Jul 07, 1992 B.MENAGH [Bill] at 19:24 EDT I've finally had a chance to read the messages this month and would like to thank those who responded so readily to my questions re Autoswitch Overscan and the Tiny030 accelerator. Especially to Vince Patricelli who seems to be having good success with the Autoswitch and directed my questions to Jim Allen for further clarification. Thanks Vince, Bill ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 157 Sat Jul 25, 1992 N.JOHNSON2 at 20:47 EDT Has anyone heard anything about the TT overscan. I saw it advertised at RIO Computers. It looks interesting but does it require the same amount of soldering as the Mega version. I would hate to cut up my TT like I did my Mega. Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 158 Sun Jul 26, 1992 F.BELL1 [Frank @ Home] at 23:36 EDT Norm, TT Overscan is pure software and designed to emulate ST screens. It seems that some ST programs won't run on non-standard ST screen resolutions...something nobody knew about before the TT came out. :-) Frank... ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 159 Mon Jul 27, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 18:10 EDT Frank, are you saying that the TT runs ST resolutions the way that Overscan runs on the ST - with non-contiguous screen boundaries? Does it run 640x400 resolution on the TTM194? Thinking that if it does so, it might (if it's completely software) allow me to run those hard-coded 640x400 programs on my Moniterm. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 160 Wed Jul 29, 1992 F.BELL1 [Frank @ Home] at 00:16 EDT I'm sorry Mike. I confused TT OverScan with something else (there is a software version of something that makes your TT think its an ST - I can't find any referance to it right now but I'll keep looking). Anyway, TT OverScan plugs into your VME slot and three small cables? have to be layed down within the machine (that means you have to open it up). The result look like this on a PTC1426 monitor: ST Low 416x248 Mid 832x248 High 832x496 TT Low 416x496 Mid 832x496 High none Screen processing is faster too. Cost about $200.00 in Germany. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 161 Sat Aug 01, 1992 R.SYKES2 [RAYMO] at 14:55 EDT Will it work with the Mega STE via VME PORT ? ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 162 Sun Aug 02, 1992 F.BELL1 [Frank @ Home] at 01:15 EDT Gee, I don't know. But if the card is depending on hardward (at least a few wires have to be layed) I would say 'no'. Possibly it also depends on the CPU. Frank... ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 163 Tue Aug 04, 1992 J.RICE5 [Joe Rice] at 23:52 EDT Just so everyone is aware, it appears that the latest Autoswitch Overscan software version is now 3.0zh. I received it from Germany a few weeks ago. Joe ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 164 Sat Aug 08, 1992 V.PATRICELL1 [Vince] at 09:14 EDT Joe, I sent my registration for my OverScan to England in April and received a response about 10 days later informing me that there was a newer version of the software than the one I just purchased. I sent them my disk the next day and have yet to receive the upgrade. I even mailed them a follow up letter asking them why it was taking so long. I am using version 3.0x of the software. Do you know what improvements were made to the newer version? ................................Vince ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 165 Tue Aug 11, 1992 J.RICE5 [Joe Rice] at 01:31 EDT Vince, It's difficult to tell what the improvements are, as the Readme is all on German, although it looks like it improves compatability with MiNT, Multi-TOS, 68030 CPUs, and That's Write. I sent my registration card directly to Germany and received the new version about 2-3 months later. Joe ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 166 Tue Aug 11, 1992 V.PATRICELL1 [Vince] at 22:29 EDT Joe, I wonder if the latest version fixes compatability with Warp 9. With overscan on, Warp 9 causes the file viewer in MaxiFile to be unreadable, and causes screen glitches on the sides of the screen when scrolling with DC Shower and some other text viewers. Do you use Warp 9? ................................Vince ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 167 Thu Aug 13, 1992 J.RICE5 [Joe Rice] at 00:26 EDT Vince, Alas, when used with Warp 9 the same problems are still apparent. Hopefully the Codeheads will determine where the incompatibilty lies and will be able to work around it somehow. Joe ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 168 Sat Nov 07, 1992 N.JOHNSON2 at 18:09 EST Has anyone heard of any retailers carrying TT Overscan. Rio Computers advertises it but does not have it in stock. Thanks, Norm ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 169 Sun Nov 08, 1992 V.PATRICELL1 [Vince] at 08:06 EST Norm, I ordered the ST OverScan from Joppa Computers so you may want to give them a call to see if they have it. I get my software updates from England. Their address and phone number is: The Atari Workshop, The Desktop Centre 17-19 Blackwater Street East Dulwich London SE22 8RS Tel: 081-693 1919 Fax: 081-693 6936 Good Luck! ................................Vince ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 170 Mon Dec 07, 1992 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 23:59 EST Anyone interested in a version of the 60Hz PD overscan which works on TOS2.06 or TOS2.05? I upgraded from TOS1.4 via a TEC card this summer. Losing overscan was disappointing... BUT with some work on the sources I've managed to get it working on TOS2.06. I'm trying to clean up the code a little to make it more stable under 2.06. --Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 171 Sat Dec 12, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 18:55 EST Kevin, please do upload it! ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 172 Sun Dec 13, 1992 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 14:01 EST Mike, I've got it working VERY stable on TOS2.06 (should work fine on any TOS greater than TOS1.2 tho'). There is a conflict between it and Warp9 tho'. When I have Warp 9 active in the auto folder, I get an address error (3 bombs) right around the time TOS does its v_openwk() call for the screen. Ugh!!! I can't seem to get rid of this problem. It is VERY strange because every once in a thousand years it DOESN'T happen and W9 and (KDH)OScan coexist just fine. It is driving me nuts! The main thing was removing the highly TOS illegal way of expanding the screen memory. My way is legal, but the price you pay is about oh, 64 to 80 kbytes of RAM being used by overscan. --Kevin PS. I just had a "Brainstorm FLASH" of a neat (cheaper) way to get 640x400x4 colors on any STe model. It involves interlacing the video (simple circuit) and some software to drive the videoshifter on every hblank to keep the memory/scanline stuff straight. It would probably eat about 20% cpu. HEY, it would be CHEAPO 640x400x4 or 320x400x16, or 640x800 monochrome. :) Unfortunately it *won't* work on the older ST's shifters. :( ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 173 Sun Dec 13, 1992 V.PATRICELL1 [Vince] at 21:13 EST Kevin, I see you are using the PD overscan mod on your Atari and was wondering if you had any conflicts with Warp 9 (if you use it - if you don't, you should!). I am using the commercial Autoswitch OverScan and there are some compatability problems that I already reported to CodeHead Software. Thanks. ................................Vince ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 174 Mon Dec 14, 1992 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 22:20 EST Vince, Yes there are conflicts with W9 & Overscan. I haven't figured out exactly what is causing it tho'. I use both W9 and my custom version of overscan, but not at the same time. :( Unfortunately, the CodeHeads didn't have an 'overscanned' ST last time I met John E. in person (at the Blue Ridge AtariFest). It seems to occur (the address error) around the time TOS does its VDI open workstation call for the screen. Once in a while they do work together without a hitch. Ugh!!! Maybe it has something to do with oscan changing the line A vars out from under W9 w/o locking out all interrupts? Hmm... I'll try that & see what happens. If only I had another ST to do some remote debugging of the AUTO folder process. --Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 175 Wed Dec 16, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 19:20 EST Kevin, do you have an English translation of the PD Overscan docs? ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 176 Thu Dec 17, 1992 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 01:03 EST Mike, No, but I've got in depth knowledge of PD overscan, now that I've rewritten some big parts of it. Did you try one of the German to English xlation programs in the library? I wanted to try and resolve the W9 conflict before posting my version which works on TOS2.06/TOS2.05. --Kevin (fooling w/ o-scan while waiting for his dev Falcon) ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 177 Fri Dec 18, 1992 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 01:51 EST Kevin, I would certainly be interested in overscan, but only if it works with Warp 9. Please keep us posted. Thanks--Rob ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 178 Fri Dec 18, 1992 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 13:33 EST I don't know if I'll be able to get Overscan working with W9 on my TOS2.06 STf anytime soon. I don't have a second ST handy that would allow me to remotely debug the AUTO folder bootup process. I may post a plain version which works with TOS2.05 & TOS2.06 when W9 is not installed tho'. Since I'm on vacation until Jan. 4th, starting this afternoon... I may have time to work on it and get it fixed. Unless of course my Falcon arrives. :) :) Then it will be audio & DSP programming for me! :) Anyone out there try to use a German to English Xlation program on the PD oscan docs? --Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 179 Tue Dec 22, 1992 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 02:10 EST Well guys I've got some bad news. :( My MMU flaked out on my ST this past Saturday. It bashed by hard drive and the backup floppys I had the source code to my version of overscan. I don't think the executable survived either. So it is back to the drawing board. :( The good news is... I now have a VERY reliable SyQuest 88Megger and a new MMU in place! ANd I remember exactly HOW I modified OVERSCAN and can redo it in a few days. Damn I hate computer malfunctions and disk crashes. :( I've *almost* recovered everything but this one project.... STAY TUNED!!!!! I guess the rewrite will give me a chance to investigate the W9 conflict more thoroughly. --Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 180 Wed Dec 23, 1992 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 01:00 EST Well, good news... :) I have a printout of the last version of my modified overscan. :) Now I just need to type in the mods to the sources. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 181 Wed Dec 23, 1992 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 05:04 EST Well... I found a working copy of my modified overscan. This version is setup and only works right on TOS1.4 or TOS2.06. The executable is huge due to my 'screen array' being in the BSS. I was going to change that, but I need to redo the code (which was lost) first. Anyone have a GOOOOOOD disassembler? It could save me mucho time since this executable has the symbol table in it. I may just post this version for now since most people who would be interested in it are using TOS2.06 via a TEC board or something similar. Of course, this is the version that W9 doesn't like. --Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 182 Fri Jan 22, 1993 J.CRASWELL at 22:53 EST Hi, Kevin I have a couple of disassemblers that work pretty well. The trick is to get the disassembled "source" to recompile an create the same programam Give me a call (612) 492-3913 Days and I will tell you what I know. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 183 Thu Jan 28, 1993 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 23:57 EST Jim, Thanks... I'll give you a call about the disassemblers. :) Are they good at matching up my symbol tables? It is a DRI format symbol table/object file. --Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 184 Sun Jan 31, 1993 N.JOHNSON2 at 12:00 EST Does anyone know were to return the registration card for Autoswitch Overscan. I was very confused by the instructions as to registration in the manual. I have had the upgrade installed for over a year but never registered it. Now I hear that a software upgrade is needed for Autoswitch Overscan to work with Tos 2.06. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Norm J. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 185 Sun Jan 31, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 13:05 EST N.Johnson2, I've been reading about Overscan for a while and have been interested in the product. It's impossible to find around here. Since you are the first person that I see mention they have this product, could you tell me how you like it. Thanks. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 186 Wed Feb 03, 1993 J.RICE5 [Joe Rice] at 01:53 EST I sent my card to the address in Germany and received an update from them a couple of months later. joe ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 187 Fri Feb 05, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 02:15 EST Wintermute, etc, I have purchased a used system with four megs that isn't working. I suspect that it might have an overscan in it causing the problem (as a possibility) How can I recognize it for sure, and how can I disable it? ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 188 Sat Feb 06, 1993 J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] at 14:50 EST Meneldil, If it is equipped with the AutoSwitch Overscan from Germany, there is no way to completely remove it from you system, since there are two trace cuts involved with installing it. To recognize it, inside you'll find a small board with one IC on it, and about 10 multicolored wires coming from it. Sincerly, John E. Gniewkowski Editor, GEnieLamp ST ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 189 Sat Feb 06, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 18:24 EST John, There is a small white board with an IC on it but only the two ribbon cables from the RAM upgrade coming to it. There is a grey wire coming from the RF box to some other wires involved with a transistor, some resistors and an IC in the right hand side of the board. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 190 Sat Feb 06, 1993 J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] at 23:56 EST Meneldil, The autoswitch prodcut had one line going to the shifter chip (pin 10 I think) which is under the RF shielded box (and there is another line going into the RF modulator box. But all lines go to one small board, about 2" per side. I don't know what the small white board is for, but since it seems to be connected to the RAM upgrade, it is probably some sort of MMU interface. It certainly sounds like you have some sort of overscan mod there - now to make it work with your computer. What exactly makes you think it is to blame for your troubles? Sincerly, John E. Gniewkowski Editor, GEnieLamp ST ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 191 Sun Feb 07, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 02:05 EST John, I talked to the individual I bought the unit from for nearly an hour today, trouble shooting the ST. No luck, so I will send it back and he will try to fix it. He thinks that it is in the RAM upgrade (Tech Specialties) and that it will be easy to do. Else I will get my money back. I can't complain about that kind of service! However, I am not so sure that it is so simple as that. The reason I wondered about Overscan, was that a couple of years ago I observed as a couple of the guys in the Mast club fixed a problem that an overscan was causing in one of their machines (something was touching something it wasn't, nothing intrinsic to the overscan unit) And I vaguely remembered some of the symptoms, like a flashing screen. Also, the fact that it would boot up on the monochrome screen, as low rez (!) (Didn't Atari say it couldn't be done?), made me think something to do with the video was involved. It may be in the port - not communicating that a monochrome rather than color monitor is attached - although it works fine with the ST I've had since 1987 - a full six years now. The small white board apparently is indeed part of the memory upgrade. The video shifter chip is plugged into it and it is plugged into the video shifter slot. The chip was not loose and the board did not appear loose. Although that might be a prime suspect. The other possibility that I fear is that there might be a hairline crack in the motherboard. IF that is the case, that is bad news for that unit. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 192 Sun Feb 07, 1993 N.JOHNSON2 at 11:32 EST J. Brenner 1, Autoswitch Overscan works pretty well. Its almost a necessity to have Warp 9 or a similar program to speed up the screen redraw. With Warp 9 installed my Mega with Overscan redraws the screen almost as fast as my TT with Warp 9. As a matter of fact, with Oversan installed on the Mega, looking at the TT medium screen is a bit confining (except for the color). I have been trying to get more information on the TT Overscan advertised by RIO Computers. I have called them 3 times in the last 6 months and everytime they say its on backorder. A friend of mine has also called them a few times and got the same response. You can order Autoswitch Overscan from Toad Computers. Norm. ------------ Category 4, Topic 21 Message 193 Sun Feb 07, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 20:08 EST N.Johnson, Gee, thanks for the reply. I never thought anyone would ever answer me. It's strange that I can get this product from Toad and that it is not mentioned in the Official Software Catalogue. Thanks again. ------------