========================================================================= (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 19 Sat Mar 14, 1992 T.KAY3 [TKAY] at 01:40 EST Sub: CD ROM and SCSI on Atari ST There's gotta be a way to run available CD ROM drivers on the ST! ? Does anybody know how to do it? And, who are the brave souls that want to write the software drivers for it? 201 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 1 Sat Mar 14, 1992 T.KAY3 [TKAY] at 01:40 EST If I've done my research right and interpret all the bits of information I've read in the last few days, then CD ROM runs off a SCSI port/adaptor correct? Well if so, then the only thing we need to run CD ROM drives, available for everything but ATARI, is someone to write software (CDR drivers) for the ST and an ICD or similar host adaptor.. Your thoughts? FACTS? Somebody? And who's the brave soul who would like to make a few bucks writing drivers? . Well gosh, the rest of the computing world has 'em, why don't we?? :<( ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 2 Sat Mar 14, 1992 DOUG.W [ICD RT] at 11:40 EST TKAY, There are definitely projects in the works to get this done as soon as possible. --Doug @ ICD ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 3 Sat Mar 14, 1992 B.KING8 [Brien King] at 16:49 EST TKAY - We do have them, its called METADOS. Check with someone from Atari and they should be able to get you a copy of it. Brien ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 4 Sat Mar 14, 1992 D.KERR1 [Drew] at 17:58 EST I thought METADOS was announced but has not been released. You mean if we ask we can get a copy to run CD ROM's? Drew ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 5 Sun Mar 15, 1992 MUSE [Tomas] at 03:12 EST I think I saw MetaDos2 on the CodeHeadQuarters BBS. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 6 Sun Mar 15, 1992 GRMEYER [Gordon Meyer] at 18:55 EST What is the status of MetaDOS anyway? I too recall hearing that it was going to be released to the general public, but I haven't noticed it anywhere in the libraries or on other services. Perhaps I missed it? Gordon R. Meyer 4:32:10 pm CT Sunday, March 15, 1992 ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 7 Wed Mar 25, 1992 M.DEMETZ1 [Miked] at 21:58 EST I saw METATOS is on atari.archive.umich.edu ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 8 Fri Jun 19, 1992 M.NILSEN at 20:53 EDT To whom it may concern at Atari: I recently purchased a Toshiba XM-3101 BME CD ROM drive at an irresistable price. I have an ICD Host Adapter which, I believe, will pass the proper commands to the drive. I'm VERY interested in obtaining MetaDos, if possible. Do you have any news? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 9 Sat Jun 20, 1992 C.HERBORTH [-Chris-] at 01:31 EDT M.NILSEN, I hope you get some responses! I've been staring longingly at CD-ROMs for years now, but never bought one... I can't think of anything you'd do with it on the ST, since it (apparently) MetaDOS won't real all of an IBM format disk, and I doubt it would handle a Mac disk... And it's not like anyone makes ST CD-ROM access programs... :-( So, what do you do with your CD-ROMs? -Chris- ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 10 Sat Jun 20, 1992 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 13:47 EDT There are a few programs that do indeed access CDROMS for the Atari. The most significant one is Esteem PILOT langauge. You can catch a review of it in the last two ST Informer magazines (Apr 92 and May 92.) Plus there are some archives available on CDROM.. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 11 Sat Jun 20, 1992 C.HERBORTH [-Chris-] at 19:41 EDT Hey no fair ASX, I haven't seen an ST Informer in these parts in eons... What's PILOT? -Chris- ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 12 Sat Jun 20, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 20:22 EDT PILOT is an authoring language that is available for many systems; eSTeem has brought it to the ST. Further information can be found in Category 29, Topic 7. See you there. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 13 Sat Jun 20, 1992 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 23:19 EDT The eSTeem Pilot articles/tutorials were a three-parter, in the March, April, and May issues of ST Informer. Tom Nielson, the program's author, is online here, and there's a topic for it (sorry, don't have a complete topic list handy, just do a search offline in Aladdin under "pilot" ...) ST Informer 909 NW Starlite Place 503-476-0071 support Grants Pass, OR 97526 800-800-2563 order eSTeem, Inc. 72 Shades Crest Road 205-941-4910 Hoover, AL 35226-1014 205-987-9208 As an aside, Tom graciously took the time during the busy Chicago Atarifest last November to show me some of the things of which Pilot is capable in the way of son et lumiere - very nice, indeed. There's also a working demo of the language here in the library (again, you'll hafta search - due to some munged files, I don't have the info handy. Sorry.) ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 14 Sun Jun 21, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 11:44 EDT I thought I'd already posted the topic for eSTeem, Jonesy, but maybe I missed: Cat 29, Topic 7. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 15 Sun Jun 21, 1992 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 18:25 EDT Here it is: 21297 COPILOT.ARC X ESTEEM 911019 265472 29 10 Desc: eSTeem PILOT RunTime Pgm (Ver. 1.51) ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 16 Sun Jun 21, 1992 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 23:39 EDT Yep, you did, Dot; 'twas Aladdin lag at my end, ectually. You, miss? Never. ;-P ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 17 Thu Jun 25, 1992 C.HERBORTH [-Chris-] at 21:28 EDT Thanks folks, I'll take a snoop over to the ESTEEM TOPic... I was drooling over a NEC CDR-74 bundle in MacWorld... CDR-74 (nice 280ms access CD-ROM), stereo speakers and 11 CDs... Including Sherlock Holmes, Consulting Detective... :-) -Chris- ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 18 Tue Aug 25, 1992 E.WELLS at 00:38 EDT Apparently, Metados is being rewritten to handle any drive mechanism, provided you have the SCSI access. However, what ever happened to Atari's reader software? Back in 85 there was an article in STart or Analog or something about a grolier encyclopedia running on an ST WITH SOFTWARE to scan the whole disc, with graphics and with, sound, speech, etc. What happened to the Software? EHW ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 19 Tue Aug 25, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 02:09 EDT E.Wells, >what ever happened to Atari's reader software? ...about a grolier >encyclopedia running on an ST WITH SOFTWARE to scan the whole >disc... Atari decided to wait with the release of their CD-ROM units until there was software available to go with it. On the other hand, developers decided that it was senseless to invest their money in the development of software for a non-existent (unreleased) hardware device. John ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 20 Thu Aug 27, 1992 E.WELLS at 21:01 EDT John, It is unfortunate, they could have been at the ffore [D [D [D [D [Dforefront, instead they lost what could have been a valuable tool to SELL machines. EHW ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 21 Mon Sep 07, 1992 D.WOODFORD2 at 21:14 EDT YOU CAN DO IT!!!!! First, get a copy of the September Issue of ATARI USER. Then turn to page 9. TURN THE MAGAZINE SIDEWAYS! (trust me) A ApUTERS AD. Notice the black box in the lower left hand corner, which says: A A D D D D D D DpLETE CD-ROM SYSTEM for ATARI ST/STe, JUST $%((! You get the Drive, ICD's new LINK, and a whole lot of goodies!! You can call for info at (410) 544-6943. I'm not connected with any of these guys, I'm just excited about the reality of it all!! And remember:"Don't hold a GRUDGE!" A grudge is very heavy, and it doesn't have any handles1 Dave "SAXGUY" Woodford /s A >*s ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 22 Wed Sep 09, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:23 EDT Dave, A price of $%(( is a little too parenthetical for me. Maybe you had the caps lock down and meant $599? Even *that* is steep, considering that CD-ROM drives are selling at discount for $199 these days. Add $100 for the Link and the one you are referring to seems very overpriced. BTW, anyone who buys a CD-ROM drive should look for an "XA"-spec drive, one that will handle Photo CD. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 23 Thu Sep 10, 1992 DOUG.W [ICD RT] at 07:50 EDT Al, You won't find a *SCSI* CD-ROM drive for $199... --Doug ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 24 Fri Sep 11, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kene @ SFRT] at 21:37 EDT What's the rig DAK sells for the PC? It even comes with the interface card. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 25 Fri Sep 11, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 21:38 EDT Doug, You'e right; no SCSI CD-ROMs at $199 ... yet. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 26 Sat Sep 12, 1992 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 08:52 EDT Doug, I missed the Ad in Atari User (?), could you give some particulars about ICD's current CD ROM commitment ? I've read the stuff on The Link and it sounds great, but is ICD going to sell "packages" with a Link, drive and software or what ? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 27 Sat Sep 12, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 09:20 EDT >What's the rig DAK sells for the PC? It even comes with the interface >card. Ken, the magic word is SCSI. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 28 Sun Sep 13, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kene @ SFRT] at 01:40 EDT It was a question? I don't know. If somebody told me anyone off the streets could buy a Apple Powerbook 100 for $700 I would ask that person how long it took them to file the serial numbers off the machine. What _is_ the lowest price? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 29 Sun Sep 13, 1992 J.RICE5 [Joe Rice] at 03:52 EDT Kene, As Apple discontinued the Powerbook 100 and Powerbook 145, prices are heavily discounted. The 100 can be found at Price Club with 4 megs RAM, a 40 meg HD, and a 1.44 meg floppy for $799. The 2 meg RAM/20 meg HD version sells for $699 at a number of stores in the LA area. Joe ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 30 Sun Sep 13, 1992 D.WOODFORD2 at 08:52 EDT Toad Computers has a "Complete System", with a CD-ROM & Audio drive, Font Funhouse, host adapter, cables and 2 free(?) CD's for $599. The Ad is in the latest ATARI USER mag. you can call them at(410) 544-6943. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 31 Sun Sep 13, 1992 R.CALSADA [Rich Sea] at 22:28 EDT Al, Is "Photo CD" the recently announced Kodak system or standard? If so what are the XA specs or do existing rom drives on the market now meet this standard? Yea $600 seems pretty steep, thats the same price Toad was charging at the CT fest. They had 2 discs but don't know if that was an extra add on. Recent clone shows I've seen Toshiba SCSI 325ms average seek time going for about $300. That and the ICD link should bring the cost up to $400 if you already have a case and P.S. . Just how many rom discs are out for the ST? With the intro of the Falcon with higher rez graphics I can envision ST'ers picking up dos type roms like VGA SPECTRUM for the large amount of GIF files on it. Currently in the clone market there is a large amount of roms available and prices are dropping. I believe Spectrum cost eiter $19 or $29 from ERM. Doug from ICD., do you have a list of SCSI drives that will work with the LINK and is the driver capable of reading clone type rom disc like those previously mentioned in this post? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 32 Mon Sep 14, 1992 J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] at 01:01 EDT Kene, I've also seen the $699 price, in fact two of my fiends bought one at the Price Club awhile back (the 4/40 for $799). I've recently received a flyer from CitiBank for their CitiDollars program with the Powerbook 100 2/20 in it for, you guessed it, $699! They _are_ out there. John E. Gniewkowski GEnieLamp ST Co-Editor Monday, September 14, 1992 -- 12:19:04 am ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 33 Tue Sep 15, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 04:24 EDT Rich, Most DC-ROM drives now on the market do not meet the XA (Photo CD) standard. Those that do are well marked as XA. There are very few (maybe two?) CD-ROM disks specifically aimed at the ST market. This will change soon; it only costs about $3 a disk in bulk to have CD-ROMs made. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 34 Wed Sep 16, 1992 WAYNED. [Wayne] at 19:34 EDT Define "bulk" Al? 10, 100, 1000, 10k, 1 mill? Wayne ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 35 Thu Sep 17, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 05:47 EDT Wayne, A run of 500 CD-ROMs is the typical minimum, but there are duplicators who will do one-offs, too, at a few hundred dollars. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 36 Thu Sep 17, 1992 G.ZEPKA1 [Greg] at 17:51 EDT Al, When you say a CD rom will cost $3.00 in bulk to make, what is the quanity of bulk? If you know the cost of making ten or so what would that be? I am very interested in puting data bases on CD roms. Greg ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 37 Sat Sep 19, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 04:14 EDT Greg, Bulk usually means 500 or so. Ten CD-ROMs would probably cost you too much to make it worthwhile ... $1,000 or so. I could be wrong. You may want to look into a WORM drive, run under the LINK from ICD. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 38 Thu Oct 01, 1992 H.MURPHY [M.S. Design] at 20:47 EDT Just for your info, here is a copy of our press release regarding our CD ROM product (which says ATARI right on it): P R E S S R E L E A S E For Immediate Release MS Design is proud to formally announce the availability of it's Wheeler Quick Art CD ROM for the Atari ST-TT family of computers. This disc contains 3000+ images in TIFF, PCX and IMG formats. That's a total of 9000+ files. All pictures are high quality, original, professionally drawn, copyrighted art. None of them are PD or from PD sources. So there is no question of the possible copyright violations inherent in some so-called PD art work. We know the sources and have obtained proper copyrights and licenses. The approximate average file size, as an IMG file, is between 40 and 60K. There of course are many that are larger and many that are smaller, but they are all detailed 300 dpi pictures. For those who have memory limitations, many of the pictures are available in both a smaller version and a larger version, with one possibly flipped (in case you DTP program does not allow flipping of pictures). And this is a very affordable way to buy clip art. At the suggested retail price of $349.95, each image is less than 12 cents! The same art, on floppy disks retails for nearly $1.00 per image. This is because of the prices of media and materials, since nearly 1300 floppies are required to hold the same amount of data (approx. 660 meg). You could buy our CD ROM for $299, an ICD "Link" for $99 and a SCSI CD ROM drive for $500-- for a total of $898. Or you could by all the individual floppies for around $3000. Thus you can have all this art and a CD ROM drive and save $2102! Our CD ROM is available right now! It made an informal debut at both the MAST and MIST shows this summer. Absolutely NOT vaporware! The CD ROM is also usable with MS DOS and UNIX. Of course, individual floppies will remain available for those who only require a specific subset of the entire package. We also can make groups available on 44 meg Syquest cartridges at a price to be negotiated. There are nearly 9000 more images available that MAY be released on CD ROMs in the future. Further information is available from MS Design 611 W. Illinois Urbana, Illinois 61801-3929 (217) 384-8469 and dealer inquiries are welcomed! And, by the way, the best pressing price we could get, for over 1000, was many orders of magnitude higher than $3. I think $3 is the price you get if you do not have to have someone master the disc for you. It takes *days* to build the master data files. Actually, I think $3 is the price for music CD's, with much large volume runs and lower QC requirements! ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 39 Thu Oct 01, 1992 LEXICOR2 [Ringo] at 23:35 EDT That is great news M.S. Design. I always wanted and need a CD-ROM drive and I also need the clip art as I am also a DTPer. Ringo ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 40 Mon Oct 05, 1992 COOKIEMAN at 19:22 EDT I think what everyone here wants is a way to run MPC/PC CD-ROMS on our Atari computers. If you've ever seen the CD-ROM version of Battle Chess on a PC or Mac you'll agree it is incredible. In the case of just that one program, how would the Atari generate the sounds that come out of the Soundblaster or Adlib or whatever card? Don't think it could do it unless the CD-ROM of Battle Chess was specifically written for the ST . I'm guessing at this because of the ads I've seen in the multimedia magazines. If all CD-ROMS are the same,then there wouldn't be ads by companies selling them where some of them say "Mac" and others say "PC" or "MPC". Evidently, a Mac CD-ROM will not run on a PC (or Atari ST) and vice versa. Bruce ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 41 Mon Oct 05, 1992 T.MCCOMB [=Tom=] at 20:11 EDT Bruce- a CDROM is merely a storage medium. If it has IBM program(s) stored on it, ofcourse it can only be used by an IBM. Ditto for MAC, or AMiga etc. If it has DATA files on it (ART, ASCII etc) those files can be accessed and used by any computer. -Tom ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 42 Tue Oct 06, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:11 EDT Bruce, It's my understanding the programs on a CD ROM are no different that the same program on a floppy. For example Battle Chess on ROM should be the same as BC on Floppy. BTW I have the ST verions of Battle Chess and it is fun, too bad I have only been able to beat it once or twice. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 43 Tue Oct 06, 1992 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 20:18 EDT Cookieman, All that you say is true. Perhaps the Falcon030 with the German PC emulation board would allow doing the program and graphics, but it would have to have some kind of Soundblaster or Adlib emulator to do the sound. The best thing would be to encourage CD-ROM Software companies to make ST versions. In the past the problem has been that even if you could cobble together the hardware, there wasn't an Atari ST software standard in America to which these software companies could target products. Hopefully when the Falcon030 comes out it will establish the software standards so that ST Specific versions will be possible. Joe M, Some software companies put much enhanced versions of their games on CD-ROM. For example, LOOM on diskette prints text dialog on the screen. On CD-ROM, there is no text, all dialog is put out through the audio system! It is only the massive storage of the CD-ROM medium that makes the storage of that much digitized audio possible. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 44 Fri Oct 09, 1992 COOKIEMAN at 20:21 EDT Thanks to all for your input. Cookieman ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 45 Mon Oct 12, 1992 R.CALSADA [Rich Sea] at 18:18 EDT Joe and Bruce, Most programs on CD are the same as the floppy equivalent, however recent CD titles on the clone platform are enhanced with better graphics and sound or more missions. Examples being CD versions of SWOTL and Where in the World is Carmen Deluxe. Also for those getting a CD ROM drive for the ST, don't ignore PC titles of ROM disk. If the ICD metados? is capable of reading a dos style of cd rom you will be able to use many titles as long as the disk does'nt need to use an index program to access the info. A title like VGA SPECTRUM has many graphic files in MACPAINT, PCX, GIF and Type 1 fonts, all which can be used on the ST side. Granted you won't be able to use the 400-500 meg of files on the disk, but you should be able to garner 40-50 megs of useful stuff. One note of caution, I don't own a CD ROM drive for the ST but transfer the above mentioned files from my clone via floppy. But all the files on the clone are visible from a dos directory command so they should be available on the ST if the ICD software is capable of reading the directory of a dos cd rom. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 46 Sun Dec 06, 1992 JKUEHN [John] at 14:07 EST I have purchased and installed a Toshiba XM-3301TA SCSI-2 CD-ROM drive in my ST system. I am using a ICD AsSCSI host adapter and your Metados VER 2.0 (8920 bytes). With this combination, I am able to, Partially, access the Current Notes PD software disks (HS format) as well as a couple of IBM ISO9660 disks. I've come across an apparent problem in the CD-Data area. It looks like the data being read are not all there.. Specifically I noticed that many files are not complete. When I read digital audio (or any) files from the High Sierra Current Notes Library disk. I get the first 6000h bytes of the data, then the next 19800h are zeros, then 6000h more correct bytes then 19800h zeros etc... These wierd numbers really confuse me. 6000h+19800h = 1F800h (129024) ??? The same happens when I read an ISO9660 IBM .WAV file. Now the drive works CORRECTLY with an IBM SCSI controller in a PC running the MSDOS extentions. So I believe that there may be some problem with the Atari METADOS Side of things ...or the setup? Files less than 25577 bytes are ok, the larger ones are trashed. This seems to happen with either the ICD ver 1.0 (2547 bytes) and ATARI CDARGEN ver. 2.0 (6175 bytes long) BOS files. To me it looks like some problem with the deblocking algorithm. Someone suggested the Sector size setting in the ICD boot software (Mine is currently set to 1024 bytes??? Hardware consists of a 2.5 meg ST with UIS and the Atari Control panel installed. Am running ICD 6.05 boot software. Other Auto programs I'm using, consist of ACC.PRG, SUPERBOOT 8.0, METADOS, TOS_VERS, and EPD10. All of which I have turned off in an attempt to locate the incompatability. TOS is Ver 2.06 on a TEC upgrade. On the HA I have two ST-296N drives (0 and 1) as well as a Syquest 44 (SCSI 2) the CDROM is SCSI 4. Using a program written by ICD called 'SCSI.PRG' I am able to play audio CD's as well as exercise all the various other SCSI commands from within GEM. The metados software was obtained with an authoring language called PILOT from a company called eSTeem inc. This package supports CD-ROM audio and data as well as laser disk video player control. I am acting as a Beta tester for the SCSI II audio implementation side of the PILOT 2.0 package. The drive supports the following SCSI II commands: Op-Code Command Name SCSI TYPE ------------------ --------------------------------------------- Group 0 (all are 6 byte commands) 00h Test Unit Ready M 1 01h Rezero Unit O 3 03h Request Sense M 2 08h Read (6) O 4 0Bh Seek (6) O 3 0Dh No Operation V 1 12h Inquiry M 2 15h Mode Select O 2 16h Reserve M 1 17h Release M 1 1Ah Mode Sense O 2 1Bh Start/Stop Unit O 3 1Ch Receive Diagnostic Results O 2 1Dh Send Diagnostic M 3 1Eh Prevent/Allow Medium Removal O 1 Group 1 (all 10 byte commands) 25h Read CD-OM Capacity M 4 28h Read (10) M 4 2Bh Seek (10) O 3 2Fh Verify (10) O 3 34h Pre-Fetch O 3 3Bh Write Buffer O 4 3Ch Read Buffer O 4 Group 2 (all 10 byte commands) 42h Read Sub-Channel O 2 43h Read TOC O 2 44h Read Header O 4 45h Play Audio (10) O 3 47h Play Audio MSF O 3 48h Play Audio Track/Index O 3 49h Play Audio Track Relative (10) O 3 4Bh Pause/Resume O 1 Group 5 (all 12 byte commands) A5h Play Audio (12) O 3 A8h Read (12) O 4 A9h Play Audio Track Relative (12) O 3 Group 6 (all are 10 byte commands) C0h Audio Track Search V 3 C1h Toshiba Play Audio V 1 C2h Still V 1 C3h Set Stop Time V 1 C4h Caddy Eject V 3 C6 Read Subcode-Q-Data & Playing Status V 2 C7h Read Disk Information V 2 C8h Read CD-ROM Mode V 2 Note) M: Mandatory, O: Optional, V: Vender Specific The drive is XA, mode 1, mode 2, and Multisession compatable. Just wondering if this is a known problem, and are you currently working on it? Do you have any suggested directions of approach that I might take to resolve this? I have the complete SCSI I and SCSI II implemantation specifications as well as the Toshiba SCSI-2 interface specification documentation for my drive. My background is hardware and some software engineering. So any help would be greatfully appreciated. Well that's about enough for this lot... Thanks in advance for the support and all of the ATARI product line. CUL JOHN K. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 47 Mon Feb 01, 1993 LEXICOR2 [Ringo] at 21:31 EST Question: Will a Chinon CDS-431 CD-R0M INTERNAL DRIVE work with the ST/TT/Falcon? It is a standard Sony and Philips CD-ROM standard Mode 1, Mode 2. Interface SCSI (40pin connector) Front loading. Average Acces time = 350ms typ. What software do I need to make this run? ICD or ATARI. It also needs to be in a case. Ringo ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 48 Mon Feb 01, 1993 H.MURPHY [M.S. Design] at 23:39 EST John, I drive which identifies itself to ICD's IDCHECK program as a MATSHITACD-ROM CR-5XX. It seems to have many of the same problems you are having--small files are read fine, larger files are corrupted, but not everytime. Sometimes 300K files read fine! I have not been able to identify any relationship or distinguishing causes for this. I also have an early version of ICD's CD-ROM driver software, just like you do. Since everything else in our systems is almost totally different, maybe there is a clue here?! My system is a Mega2, with a turbo20, 4 meg of ram, 160 megs on 4 different hard drive, an ADSCSI, a SLM804, an Adaptec controller, who knows what else. The CDROM drive works fine on an MSDOS type thing--it is a SCSI drive, by the way. The CDROM also fails in a very similiar way on a different ST, one with a Turbo030 board. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 49 Tue Feb 02, 1993 ICDINC at 07:36 EST Ringo, If it has a 40 pin connector I really doubt that it is SCSI. SCSI standard is 50 pins. There is a modified IDE interface used by CD-ROM people that use 40 pins and that will not work on the ST nor a standard IDE bus. H.Murphy, Call Doug at ICD for help. He has some new software that is in beta test (or maybe released by now) that fixes the corruption problem with larger drives. That was a MetaDOS bug. - TOM - PS 815-968-2228 ext. 236 ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 50 Wed Feb 03, 1993 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 07:23 EST To the best of my knowledge there ARE CD ROM drivers out there now. ICD appearently has included them with their Link adapter and they claim to be releasing them (at a price) for their AdSCSI line as well. I've been looking at CD ROMs myslef and still haven't sorted out all the pieces, but I have heard of peop[le running this configuration. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 51 Wed Feb 03, 1993 B.REHBOCK [BILL@ATARI] at 10:59 EST Ringo: 1) Yes, I have a CDS-431 myself. It should have a 50 pin SCSI connector on it. 2) We will be releasing MiNT XFS drivers very shortly. This will work with the TT and Falcon. For an ACSI-only machine, you need an ICD Host Adapter and Atari MetaDOS with the ICD driver that talks to their Host Adapter. 3) Yes, a case and power supply would be a good idea. -Bill@Atari ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 52 Wed Feb 03, 1993 LEXICOR2 [Ringo] at 15:34 EST Bill R. Thanks a million for the information. Ringo ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 53 Tue Feb 09, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 23:56 EST >ALL> > Kodak reps will be online on: > > PHOTO AND VIDEO ROUNDTABLE > THURSDAY FEB 25TH > @ 10 pm. EASTERN ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 54 Wed Feb 10, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:38 EST Muse, Thanks for the info! Do you know if the Photo and Video RT archives such conferences ? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 55 Wed Feb 10, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 09:57 EST Koloth, That I don't know. ===Tomas=== February 10, 1993 @ 6:41:47 am PST ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 56 Sat Mar 13, 1993 R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn] at 16:37 EST H.MURPHY Just saw your msg re the MATSHITA drive (or Panasonic under another name - it's really the 8-letter abbreviation for Matsushita who make Panasonic). I have the same drive running successfully under METADOS, by patching some timeout values in CDARGEN. If anyone's interested, I'll post the info. Roger ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 57 Sun Mar 14, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 11:11 EST Roger@anodyn, Of course we're interested! I'm using an Atari CDAR 504 w/MetaDOS and I'm "living in fear" of the day when it breaks and cannot be repaired since it's practically a prototype. We appreciate your generous offer. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 58 Sat Mar 20, 1993 JKUEHN [John] at 10:12 EST Roger, YES! I would be very interested in your Metados patches Thanks in advance John Kuehn ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 59 Sun Mar 21, 1993 PMC.INC at 15:04 EST Roger, are those Metados 2 patches? oscar ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 60 Sat Mar 27, 1993 R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn] at 21:28 EST Lee, John, Oscar, The patches I made were to a version of Metados I got from my local BBS (the same version is at the Atari archive at UMich I believe). The various files are as follows: File Size Date Time Signon message ----------- ---- ------- ------ ----------------------------- METADOS.PRG 8920 08-27-91 09:34am Atari MetaDOS Version 2.0 CDARGEN.BOS 6175 12-13-91 11:25am CDAR-Audio ROM ACSI/SCSI BOS v2.0 ISO9660F.DOS 2979 04-08-91 02:00pm ISO9660F v1.9 The code I zapped was actually in CDARGEN.BOS: I changed various timeout values of hex 000000c9 (= dec 201) [which is equivalent to 1 second] to values of hex 000007d0 (= dec 2000) [which is equivalent to 10 seconds]. These timeouts are for SCSI I/O ... the ACSI I/O timeouts are already 10 seconds, so if you have an ACSI device with problems, this won't help. This timeout value is the longest that the driver will wait before giving up on the I/O, so since most (older) CD-ROMs transfer at 150kB/sec, without the patch you can't read more than about 150kB in a single I/O. With the patches, you can go up to 1.5MB. There's no reason you can't increase the value further if you want, but I decided I wouldn't ever be reading in a bigger file. If anyone would like theses patches, or is having any other problems (particularly on a TT, since that's the system my drive's connected to right now), let me know, and I'll help if I can. Roger ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 61 Sun Mar 28, 1993 JKUEHN [John] at 19:45 EST Roger, I would be very interested in the patches that you made to the Metados BOS. I'm at the point that I'll try just about anything to further the acessability of CD-ROMs on the ST. Thanks for the offer. I'll let you know how it turns out. John Kuehn ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 62 Tue Mar 30, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:34 EST Roger, Sounds like a great topic for a magazine article... Thanks for the info. I'm running a CDAR-504 via ACSI now and it seems to work fine. When it finally dies, I'll be very interested in whatever is available then. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 63 Wed Apr 14, 1993 R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn] at 23:18 EDT To: JKUEHN John, Sorry, I haven't been on for a couple of weeks and have lost the thread of this discussion. I assume you're running a non-Atari CDROM through the TT SCSI port. If so, the patches you need are as follows: Offset in METADOS.PRG --------------------- D1C DB0 DD4 E22 E4E EC6 EE8 EFE Change hex 00C9 to hex 2EE1 in all cases (this changes a timeout value of one second to one minute). NOTE: this increases all timeouts, probably including some that don't need to be increased. This means that if you have got real hardware problems, the machine might appear to "lock up" for VERY LONG PERIODS. As always, do this only on a copy of your program. These are trained professionals. No user- serviceable parts inside. Batteries not included. The Surgeon-General has determined ... Use at your own risk ... it works for me. Let me know how it goes. Regards, Roger ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 64 Fri Apr 16, 1993 J.BRIGHAM at 19:49 EDT What brands of Aftermarket CD ROMs will work with the ADSCSI host? I talking about hardware. There are some inexpensive units in the computer shopper. While we are playing, does anyone using one the units have a list of CD ROM disks that will work with it. I have a Mega 4 with 1.4, but it could grow to 2.06. Brig ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 65 Sat Apr 24, 1993 M.BENES at 22:49 EDT Can anyone tell me if: 1) Atari (or a vendor) makes a CD ROM drive that will enable the Atari to access the Post Office CD ROM program that converts addresses to the new zip+4 format? I know that on a PC, the addresses in question are loaded on a floppy & the program access the addresses & compares those to the addresses on the CD ROM as to addressability, zip codes, etc...? 2) Does ATari make (or is it possible to obtain) a CD ROM drive that will access most of the CD ROMS know on the market..? Thanks... Mike B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 66 Mon May 10, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:45 EDT Greetings, I recently heard a roumor that CodeHead was doing a front end for the Microsoft Bookshelf CD-ROM. This rumor is _NOT_ true. I contacted CodeHead by E-mail and Charles Johnson says that they had such a plan about two years ago, but that the project is on indefinite hold pending resurgence of the Atari market. Personally, I really want an encyclopedia for my ST with CDAR-504 (or I'd upgrade to a newer CD-ROM drive if needed). Since I'd want MultiTOS and it probably won't support the CDAR-504 anyway... Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 67 Fri Jun 25, 1993 RRWELDIN [ Ron W ] at 19:03 EDT Hi everyone, I'm looking for help in locating CD's of Atari PD, Shareware, and Demo programs for use on a BBS. If you know where any may be purchased and the price please leave a message here or GEmail RRWELDIN. Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions. .......Ron ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 68 Sat Jun 26, 1993 T.ZENTHOEFE1 [Tom Z.] at 09:21 EDT Ron, check with Current Notes, they used to have a CD with a lot of PD/Shareware programs on it. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 69 Sun Jun 27, 1993 PMC.INC at 13:24 EDT Ron, send me e-mail. We have one... oscar ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 70 Mon Jun 28, 1993 GREG at 01:56 EDT Tom.Z: We have the Current Notes CD too. We also got a multisession drive to read your last Photo CD disc that was multisession. Give me a call. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 71 Tue Jun 29, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 18:58 EDT GREG, Do you know of a source for the Current Notes CD ? Is there only one ? I have "The ST Software Library" by D&C Enterprises and I wondered how they might differ. Thanks, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 72 Wed Jun 30, 1993 ICDINC at 08:34 EDT Lee B., I am told that it is the same thing. - TOM - ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 73 Fri Jul 02, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:16 EDT Tom, Thanks. I guess there was only the one... Hopefully the Falcon will help to change that. I've been chasing roumors of Atari Specific CD ROMs for a while now. The CodeHeads deny it, but the Brit Mags still report that they are working on an Atari specific front-end for Microsoft Bookshelf. Wouldn't it be great ? < I can dream, can't I ? I can scheme, can't I ? - from a forgotten song > ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 74 Fri Jul 02, 1993 ICDINC at 09:23 EDT Yes, that would be great. There is also a Clip Art CD-ROM for the ST forom D&C Enterprises. Those are the two that we have. - TOM - ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 75 Sat Jul 03, 1993 J.BRIGHAM at 21:07 EDT Can the Mitsumi CDROM be uased with the ST, via the software available on Genie? I downloaded it awhile ago, but no one put any info about the drives they were using. Brig ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 76 Tue Jul 13, 1993 PMC.INC at 01:43 EDT It took a while for CD ROMs to take off in the PC market place and they're still in the early stages. If the ST CD ROM market ever takes off it'll be a long time... ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 77 Thu Jul 15, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 18:52 EDT PMC.INC, I'd sure like to see it happen though. I "talked" to Charles Johnson about the roumor that Codehead was working on an ST front end for Microsoft Bookshelf and he said they looked into it a couple years ago, but don't currently have any plans for such a product. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens. Maybe with the Atari Developer's CDROM people will get the idea there is a market there for porting CDROMS to the Atari. It all depends on how well the Falcon Flies and how well Atari is perceived as supporting it. You know the saw by now... Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 78 Sun Jul 18, 1993 GREG at 02:15 EDT L.W. BENJAMIN: I got the Current Notes CD from a place in California. Got the name of the store from J.WATERS. I believe a voice number is in Current Notes for him. Been very happy with the XFS driver for MultiTOS. The CD rom drive has worked without flaw and we had it looping a read cycle for 24 hours a couple days ago with no problems. The MultiTOS driver will be included in Photo Show. We're most happy at how the program turned out. It's All Relative ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 79 Sun Jul 18, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 09:42 EDT A friend of mine has been trying to get in touch with Current Notes lately and generally gets a FAX machine or Modem on their listed phone line. I recently sent mail to JOE.WATERS and got no reply. I forget where I got that E-Mail address, perhaps I need to write to J.WATERS instead. Thanks! I liked your flyer for PHOTO SHOW which I received when I ordered DMJ's DCSHOWER replacement VIEW II. . If I run MultiTOS on a MegaSTE, should PHOTO SHOW work with it ? I'll be going to the BRACE Atarifest next weekend and I may get MultiTOS there. If I get it, I'll let everyone know if it comes with the XFS drivers or not. I now wonder if it'll work with the "ancient" MetaDOS/CDAR-504 combination I have or if I'll need to buy a new CDROM drive too. No, I know the answer to that, PHOTO SHOW won't because the Photo CDs require a multi- session drive. I will have to buy a new CD ROM drive - someday. I sure hope that the Developer's CDROM from Atari encourages development of some Atari specific CD ROM software. I'd love to have an encyclopedia! C'mon Atari don't let the clones and Macs out do us in this! (is anybody listening ?) ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 80 Sun Jul 18, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 15:06 EDT Koloth, Is this the information you have for CN? Order from: CN Subscriptions, 122 N Johnson Rd, Sterling, VA 20164. For quickest service use your MC/VISA card and call (703)- 450-4761 or e-mail to JOE.WATERS on GEnie. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Sunday 18 July 1993 at 03:32 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 81 Mon Jul 19, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:08 EDT Koloth, Joe is not on GEnie often. His e-mail name is JOE.WATERS. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 82 Tue Jul 20, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:54 EDT Brian, The last time I wrote to JOE.WATERS I didn't get a reply, thus I thought it was a defunct account. Now that I've seen the transcript of his RTC with ST Informer, I stand corrected. Thanks. I'll try sending my questions to him again. I'm not sure of what phone number we had as it was a friend of mine trying to call him, not me. Al, Thanks for the info. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 83 Tue Jul 20, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 08:55 EDT Joe doesn't get online all that often but he does get here. :-) You might also try contacting Steve Kiepe as he is also associated with Current Notes. Nathan ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 84 Tue Jul 20, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou] at 10:12 EDT Koloth, you can reach Joe Waters by voice at 703-450-4761. Steven Kiepe's email address is S.KIEPE. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 85 Tue Jul 20, 1993 GREG at 22:10 EDT L.W.BENJAMIN: A Photo CD does not require a multi-session drive. It does require an XA capable drive to run. You might want to check the latest with ICD on what they have for the STe line. Only a Photo CD written in two sessions requires a multi-session drive. Even then, you can still read the first write with a normal drive. Photo Show does not require MultiTOS itself. The CD rom driver that comes with it is what requires MultiTOS. With the right software, MultiTOS is great. DMJ will be doing a MultiTOS upgrade to View-II also. We will send it out as a free update when it is ready. The Photo Show flyer was done with Atari Works and the new GDOS fonts. I was impressed with the results. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 86 Wed Jul 21, 1993 J.BRIGHAM at 19:39 EDT Has anyone tried the Mitsumi CDROM, av dvertised in the Computer Shopper for about $200, with the ST? Brig ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 87 Wed Jul 21, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 20:15 EDT Thanks all for the Current Notes contacts. GREG, Thanks for the clarification on Multi-session vs XA. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 88 Sat Jul 24, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 20:12 EDT OK, I'm very confused. Is there a CD ROM driver that doesn't require MTOS? Where? What will it do? Also, does anyone know anything about a NEC CDR-25 CD-ROM drive? The ad I have says ". . . complete with SCSI cable and A/C adaptor! Fully portable and MPC compliant, with a 64k cache!" The price is $159. Is it any good. Is the price any good? Mike Allen ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 89 Sun Jul 25, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 04:25 EDT Mike, That drive is being dumped by NEC (in both meanings of that word). It's very slow, and not Photo CD compliant. It's a turkey. A cheap turkey is a gobbler, no matter how you slice it up. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 90 Sun Jul 25, 1993 GREG at 20:11 EDT Mike: Check out the NEC-38 drive. It's double speed. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 91 Wed Jul 28, 1993 R.CALSADA [Rich Sea] at 02:24 EDT J.BRIGHAM >Has anyone tried the Mitsumi CDROM, av dvertised in the Computer Shopper for >about $200, with the ST? The Mitsumi does'nt have a SCSI interface so it probably can't be used with an ST. Nice economical drive for the pc though, and some of the newer sound boards have interfaces for the Mitsumi. (LU005). ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 92 Thu Jul 29, 1993 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 07:15 EDT Would someone fluent in CED ROM drives mind making some recommendations regarding a suitable CD drive for Atari systems? I would be indebted if someone could enlighten us all on the terms used with CD ROM drives - XA compliant, 1X, 2X, etc. Thanks -- Dave @ Binary Ink ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 93 Fri Jul 30, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 02:01 EDT Dave, If you are looking for a drive you want to make sure that it is at least 400ms access (350ms is better), Photo CD ready (multi-session), and MPC compliant (these guarantee XA [eXtended Arcitecture] specs). Many of the newer drives are double speed, which allows the drives to transfer data at 300K/s and still drop back to 150K/s for playing audio CDs. Some good choices are NEC (models 55,74/84), Toshiba, and Texel. The NEC 55 is brand new and gives NEC a goo middle of teh road drive. You might not find it in stock, but you should ask about it. Multi-session = being able to read Photo CDs that have had pictures written to them more and once. MPC = Multimedia Personal Computer Jim. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 94 Fri Jul 30, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 19:26 EDT I notice in the latest J&R Music World they have a Chinon drive; 350ms access, 150k per second data transfer, includes SCSI interface and cable, headphone jack and stereo outputs for... $429.95. 1-800-221-8180. Sound good? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 95 Sat Jul 31, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 17:56 EDT Flakes, That sounds a little high for a standard speed drive, even if it is external. Jim. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 96 Sat Jul 31, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 21:19 EDT Really? Has anyone here seen better deals for a comperable drive? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 97 Sun Aug 01, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 00:28 EDT Flakes, That's a pretty slow drive, and it's not cheap. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 98 Tue Aug 03, 1993 GREG at 00:30 EDT We have had confirmed successes with the NEC-38 and Toshiba 3401 drives. Both work well with both both Photo CD and standard 9660 discs using the latest version of the Atari MultiTOS driver included with out (make that our) Photo Show. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 99 Tue Aug 03, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:45 EDT Greg, Have you been able to test Photo Show under MultiTOS on a non-Falcon system ? Does it require the TrueColor mode on the Falcon? I got MultiTOS at the BRACE Atarifest and I'm running it on a MegaSTE. (I doubt it will work on a non-Falcon, but I had to ask) ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 100 Wed Aug 04, 1993 S.FARSHIDGH [NIMA] at 00:10 EDT Hi Everyone, USING KODAK PHOTO-CD ON AN ATARI ST/TT/FALCON IS NOW OFFICIAL. THE TEXT BELOW IS NOT A RUMOR, NOR IT IS QUOTING SOMEONE ELSE. I TESTED IT MYSELF. (IN FRONT OF A WITNESS, T.ROSENQUIST) Last night after the meeting (our User Group, NCAUG), we tried using a PhotoCD sampler by Kodak on an ATARI TT030 with a SONY CDU541 CDROM using the program called PHOTO STUDIO (BY EUROSOFT). We first ran it under MultiTos using the XFS CDROM driver and it worked fine. We loaded almost every picture on the sampler, it took about 10 seconds to load every picture in 256*384 rez. (Mind you that I have a TT030 with 4meg of ST RAM and 4 meg of TT ram, and the program was running in TT RAM). Unfortunately, the colours were only 256 under TT LOW, and the images are, god knows, photo quality. But the program did do a good job of loading them. And for the pictures, they did look pretty good from far, but if you sit very close, you can see the dittering pattern. (An upgrade to 24bit would be nice) The photoCDs come in five different resolutions: thumbnail, Base/16 =>128*192 pixels snapshot, Base/4 =>256*384 pixles TV- Comparalbe, Base=>512*768 " HDTV Base*4 =>1024*1536 " Full Base*16 =>2048*3072 " If trying to load pictures above TV-comaprable (i.e., > HDTV), the program would yield insufficient memory (even with 4+4 megs). The program was not very stable under multitos if you try to manipulate the picture (Photostudio has tonnes of features for manipulating pictures, by the way it also imports files in other formats, i.e., GIF, JPEG, NEO, DEGAS, IFF,...). Somewhere I had read that I had to use the program under MTOS if I wanted to use the PCD options, well, just for the heck of it, we tried it under the old MetaDos v2.0 (modified a little as per Mr. Roger Burrows (many thanks) to accomodate larger files), and believe it or not, it worked flawlessly, even better than under MTOS, since it was at least twice as fast in loading (it took less than 5 seconds to load the picutre, and all other operations/effects were naturally faster!) and for some reason, it never said insufficient memory when trying to do special effects. So there, you should not neccessarily use MTOS driver to use PhotoCD, and that's your proof. Overall, I am pleased with what I see; if in the future I can afford a graphics card, I will definitely buy one, since I see a great future in PCD. (Great for showing off) The above was just my personal experiment and in no way am I representing a particular company. Nima Montaser Ottawa, Ont. See, we are not that much behind after all.And yes, ATARI is a great machine. If you have any comments, just leave a message here or on Genie (S.FARSHIDGH) ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 101 Wed Aug 04, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 07:46 EDT Calamus SL has a Kodak Photo CD import driver as well, Nima, which also handles all 5 of the Kodak resolutions, up to and including base 16 although you do require serious RAM at that resolution. ;-) You are right though, with a 24 bit graphics card these pictures are awesome. :-) Nathan ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 102 Thu Aug 05, 1993 GREG at 00:23 EDT NIMA: Check out our Photo Show for the Falcon. It allows viewing of true color images from your PCD disc using the built in graphic capabilities of the Falcon and will also do conversions to 24 bit TIF and EPS for TT viewing with the proper color card. If you thought Photo CD looks good with 256 colors, you should see it on the Falcon or using a color card with the TT. L.W.BENJAMIN: For viewing, Photo Show requires a Falcon. It will do true-color conversions to TIF or EPS on an ST or TT, but not slide shows or viewing. The conversion program will run on your system. Gem View and similar programs will let you view TIF images without a color card. Of course you loose quite a bit in 256 or 16 colors. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 103 Thu Aug 05, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:27 EDT Greg, Thanks for the info. I have a MegaSTE so I could eventually upgrade to a better graphics card. I'd probably also have to upgrade my CD-ROM drive as I've got Atari's old CDAR-504. Interesting note: I'd heard you couldn't use MetaDOS under MultiTOS, but I tried it last night and (for High Sierra format at least) it worked! ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 104 Wed Aug 11, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:39 EDT I just got the VGA Spectrum II CD-ROM and it has a bunch of .FLI animations. Is anybody out there aware of a .FLI player for the ST ? BTW, it also has a bunch (nice scientific term, that) of .MOD files which seem to play well with PAULA. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 105 Wed Aug 11, 1993 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 22:13 EDT Jim: Thanks for the information on CD ROM specs. From the questions here I'd say others are in need of some clarification as well as myself. Thanks for taking the time to respond. -- Dave St. Martin ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 106 Sun Aug 15, 1993 GREG at 23:54 EDT L.W.BENJAMIN: Some uploaded a FLI utility to the Libraries here. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 107 Mon Aug 16, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 18:19 EDT Greg, Yes. It's Martin Packer's FLICONV which converts a .FLI to a .TAT which can be viewed with his ANIMTOOL program. I've uploaded some .TATs that originated as .FLIs and they should show up in the libraries soon. I forget if I got ANIMTOOL here or elsewhere. If need be I can upload it to GEnie. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 108 Fri Aug 20, 1993 R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn] at 21:11 EDT I've been working on some replacement drivers for MetaDOS, for both the file system side (.DOS) and the hardware side (.BOS). They fix a number of nagging problems, and I've been using them for a while without problems. I'm planning to sell them commercially, but if you'd like to help me betatest them first, send mail to me (R.BURROWS1) and let me know your hardware configuration. I'd like to check them out on a number of systems before releasing them generally. Thanks, Roger Burrows / Anodyne Software ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 109 Sat Aug 21, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 10:40 EDT Roger, This sounds great! I've got an old CDAR-504 on a MegaSTE4 with TOS 2.06 and I've got v1.6 (I think) of MetaDOS running on it. I've got 2.0, but I couldn't get it to work. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 110 Fri Oct 01, 1993 M.EASTER [Mike] at 06:07 EDT Is anyone working on anything that would let us use those wonderful Windows based CD-ROMs? I asked the CodeHeads and pointed to this topic. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 111 Fri Oct 01, 1993 ICDINC at 10:01 EDT Mike, That would be something for the PC Emulator people to support. - TOM - ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 112 Sat Oct 02, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 09:04 EDT ICDINC, Not if the entire front-end for the application was ported to the ST. We remain hopeful. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 113 Sun Oct 03, 1993 R.WHITTAM [Ron - ABUG] at 02:37 EDT >Is anyone working on anything that would let us use those wonderful >Windows based CD-ROMs? I asked the CodeHeads and pointed to this >topic. >Mike, That would be something for the PC Emulator people to support. I disagree. While an i286 or better emulation will allow the use of windows on the Atari, a much better solution would be a port of the front end. I use a product on the PC called "Support-on-site" and one called "The Bible Library". Both are merely search and display front ends. The data is compressed ASCII files on the CD-ROMs. If one knew the specs it wouldn't be too difficult to make a GEM product for the Atari. While porting CD-ROM games would be difficult, a GEM boolean search utility that used the results to displayd the text, article, chapter, or book in a window could be done. Ron - ABUG ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 114 Sun Oct 03, 1993 M.EASTER [Mike] at 09:08 EDT The CodeHeads (John E.) said that they worked some on a frontend for MicroSoft BookShelf years ago, but put the project on hold until Atari starts putting out CD-ROM drives. (Geez!) The old chicken and egg problem raises its head. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 115 Sun Oct 03, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:29 EDT Ron, You and Tom of ICD (I think it was Tom) are right. What we really need is a port of the front-end software. I'd make great use of it here. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 116 Thu Oct 07, 1993 R.WHITTAM [Ron - ABUG] at 02:12 EDT >You and Tom of ICD (I think it was Tom) are right. What we really need is a >port of the front-end software. I'd make great use of it here. OK. When is Atari going to approach TIMEWORKS with this Idea? Timeworks makes great software. I have their ATARI Versions of both Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing AND Chessmaster 2000. They know the Atari ST, and I would think they could do it if. . . Ron - ABUG ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 117 Thu Oct 07, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 17:24 EDT On Tuesday, October 5th NEC introduced a new line of CD-ROM readers known as the Multispin 3X series. The readers will run at 3 speeds: 450 Kb/sec., 300 Kb/sec. and 150 Kb/sec. There are 3 versions: The 3Xe external, the 3Xi internal and the 3Xp personal; (portable). Atari Falcon owners like me will probably be attracted to the portable model. All the units have a front panel LCD display that operates in 3 modes; Data, Audio & Diagnostic. In addition, the units include FULL AUDIO CONTROL BUTTONS!!! that they may be used to play audio CDs without a computer. Of course they also have SCSI 1/SCSI 2 interfaces, switch selectable. I have no idea what these units might cost but I for one would be willing to pay extra to be able to use my CD-ROM reader as a portable CD player. Talk about versatility! A faxback from NEC may be obtained by calling 1-800-366-0476 and requesting document #23768. Call them at 1-800-NEC-INFO for a brochure. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 118 Thu Oct 07, 1993 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 22:26 EDT Ron... Software Toolworks produces Mavis Beacon and Chessmaster 2000 - not Timeworks. Timeworks produced the old Word Writer ST, Datamanager ST, SwiftCalc and Publisher ST titles (not to mention a few others whose names I've forgotten). John T. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 119 Fri Oct 08, 1993 M.DRYSDALE [Drys] at 06:51 EDT [Ron - ABUG] >Timeworks makes >great software. I have their ATARI Versions of both Mavis Beacon Teaches >Typing AND Chessmaster 2000. Uh, sorry that's SOFTWARE TOOLWORKS. The President of that company was best man at my sister's wedding, I can assure you that they have no interest in the ST any longer. Case in point, why did their Miracle Piano never see a ST version? You'd think that the most popular educational music product would be available on the most popular music/MIDI computer. Mike, GenTech and POWER Computers ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 120 Fri Oct 08, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Kheldar] at 23:24 EDT Ron, Aren't you talking about SOFTWARE TOOLWORKS? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 121 Sun Oct 10, 1993 R.WHITTAM [Ron - ABUG] at 01:49 EDT John T. Thanks for the clairification. I KNEW it was TOOLWORKS, I just mis- typed. Hope I didn't mislead anyone. Ron ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 122 Sat Oct 16, 1993 G.NELSON16 [GFN] at 11:18 EDT Ron, The market is non existent at the moment. No one has a cd rom, because there are few if any available cd's. The only way to get a front end written would be for one of the major ST software houses to write one and that wouldn't pay them in the short run, though in the long run they could open a new area for ST users to fill.(if we would utilize it) Gerald ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 123 Sun Oct 17, 1993 M.KOHL1 [ZIPPY] at 02:57 EDT I'm developing a CD-ROM for the Mac and Windows. Even though I've been an ST user since 1985, there's no way I would waste my time on an Atari compatable disc! ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 124 Sun Oct 17, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 09:18 EDT Zippy, What about a multi-format disk ? One that would contain software for the Mac and IBM and oh, by the way, the Atari ST (or Falcon030). What we need is some front money! Or someone who would do it gratis (yeah, right). Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 125 Sun Oct 17, 1993 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 15:12 EDT Lee, Multi-format is already avialable with ISO-9660 filesystem. The major issue is most of the authoring systems use a proprietary format for a specific platform. Since it had a special secret compression scheme that makes it harder. For example Dr. Dobbs Journal CD-ROM disk will only work on DOS or Windows machines. Quite a few people have complained since they can't use the discs on their UNIX boxes. If the source code was not compressed than at least people would have access to the source code. Also multi-platform authoring tools are very expensive for multiple platforms. For example a DOS version maybe $1000 with a UNIX version at $15,000. And if you want to be on several different UNIX platforms (ie SGI, IBM RS-6000, SUN SPARC, DEC, DG, etc) it can get very expensive at $15,000 per platform. Search engines by themselves are very expensive too. At the Intermedia/ CD- ROM show someone had a $40,000 for the engine. And it was just a library one would link in with no source code at all. Not only that one had to pay royalties on top of that. It seems like it would be much cheaper to write your own search engine for that price. Or higher a person to write one to your specifications. -- Albert ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 126 Mon Oct 18, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 20:39 EDT Albert, Oh well, maybe someday. I should be used to Pseudo Standards by now... Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 130 Tue Oct 19, 1993 AEO.5 [Ed Krimen] at 23:53 EDT Obligatory ST comment to stay on topic: "They should get this stuff for the ST." >Multi-format is already avialable with ISO-9660 filesystem. The >major issue is most of the authoring systems use a proprietary format >for a specific platform. Since it had a special secret compression >scheme that makes it harder. For example Dr. Dobbs Journal CD-ROM >disk will only work on DOS or Windows machines. Quite a few people >have complained since they can't use the discs on their UNIX boxes. >If the source code was not compressed than at least people would have >access to the source code. >Also multi-platform authoring tools are very expensive for multiple >platforms. For example a DOS version maybe $1000 with a UNIX version >at $15,000. And if you want to be on several different UNIX platforms >(ie SGI, IBM RS-6000, SUN SPARC, DEC, DG, etc) it can get very >expensive at $15,000 per platform. Multi-format, multi-platform authoring can cost as little as $2000 for the software. Buy Macromedia Director and Director Player for Windows for $1000 each (I think they even have special bundle deals) and you have your cross- platform authoring solution. Create your multimedia production on the Mac, port it to Windows, create your dual-platform CD, and voila! Take our Showcase CD for example. Put it in a Windows machine and it'll play the Windows version; put it in a Mac, and it'll play the Mac version. Very cool. The same thing goes for Macromedia's Authorware Professional, but it's more expensive: $5000 for the Mac version and $5000 for the Windows version. (Yes, that's just the software. ;-) Create your course on the Mac, port it to Windows, create your CD, and you have your second solution. You'd be amazed how similar the ported software is, when converting from Mac to Windows. And very soon, they'll be playing on 3DO. (Yes, I'd like to see the Jaguar listed here too, but that's up to Atari.) ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 131 Wed Oct 20, 1993 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 00:37 EDT Ed, But is Macromedia's Authorware Professional any good? Is it just multi-media related software? Does it have a good search engine? Can you do boolean, proximity, paragraph searches, etc? How fast is it on CD- ROM? How well does it integrate text and picture data? Nimbus's ROM-WARE is anything within 6 seconds for example. Others claim to be 2 seconds or less. How long does it take to create an application? And after you created it how hard is it to change it? If Macromedia doesn't support something can one write their own modules in C for use with Macromedia? How does Macromedia define a multi-media application? -- Albert ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 132 Wed Oct 20, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 05:44 EDT Albert, We'll see. Maybe the FAA or FCC could impose such a standard. I know DOD hasn't bee too successful with imposed standards, contractors find reasons for exceptions and the civil service "troops" can't find reasons for disallowing the exceptions. Zippy, We can read the MAC and ST disks _now_ but we can't run the programs. I'd like to see an all ASCII encyclopedia in unencrypted form. Then at least I'd have access to the information available. Such a disk could be read by any computer that supported CD-ROM, 9660 format and ASCII. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 133 Wed Oct 20, 1993 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 09:56 EDT Lee, I think an ascii encyclopedia in unencrypted form would be a good one to have too. The major problem with that is keep other people from taking the data and using it in their own commecial encyclopedia CDs. From a literature point of view there is quite a bit of ascii text files only CD-ROMs. So if someone could write or use a program to index the files and store the indexes on a hard drive. Once could have an inexpensive front end for a CD-ROM for keyword search, etc. Actually there is a brute force method using grep on the CD-ROM. But that could be very slow going through the entire works of Shakespear for example. Using indexes would be better since one can seek directly to the sectors rather than having to read the sector into memory, search the sector, and display the results. -ert ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 134 Thu Oct 21, 1993 AEO.5 [Ed Krimen] at 23:39 EDT >But is Macromedia's Authorware Professional any good? > >Is it just multi-media related software? Does it have a good search >engine? Can you do boolean, proximity, paragraph searches, etc? How >fast is it on CD- ROM? How well does it integrate text and picture >data? Nimbus's ROM-WARE is anything within 6 seconds for example. >Others claim to be 2 seconds or less. It's primary function is an interactive multimedia learning and training tool, not a database program, although it has the ability to store records and link to database programs. American Airlines, McDonalds, Boeing, and FAA are just some of our large customers. Text, graphics, sound, animations, digital video, analog overlay video, all work wonderfully and seamlessly. >How long does it take to create an application? And after you >created it how hard is it to change it? If Macromedia doesn't support >something can one write their own modules in C for use with >Macromedia? How does Macromedia define a multi-media application? I can create a course to record and use a person's name in a sentence in less than 30 seconds -- and that's a very conservative figure. That course would take up no more than two icons. Changing a course once it's created is as simple as creating it in the first place; they're just icons. On Windows, we support the loading of external DLLs and on the Mac, XCMDs. A multimedia application is one that encorporates different types of media, although I don't know if that's the official Macromedia definition. ;-) Oh, and to answer your first question, Authorware Professional is not only good, it's AWESOME! ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 135 Fri Oct 22, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 05:51 EDT Albert, Yeah, what a bummer. I guess we won't get an ASCII encyclopedia. On the literature, we need an easier reader to make it as convenient to read as a book, a la the Data PADDs used in Star Trek The Next Generation. I wonder how a Newton would be for reading bulk text ? Kinda expensive for a text reader though. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 136 Fri Oct 22, 1993 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 09:49 EDT Lee, Unless we do all the reseach and typing ourselves I guess we are stuck. Nobody that I have talked with is really willing to give out any information on their database/search engines used on CD-ROM. They said they might consider it if the one offered them the right amount of money. I stay clear of $40,000 search engines myself. Ed, Thanks for the update. By the way if AA, Boeing ect use the product is that just one person out of 50,000+ people in the organization? -- Albert ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 137 Sat Oct 23, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 11:01 EDT Albert, I don't know. We could always look around for 10,000 monkeys to do the typing! Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 138 Sun Oct 24, 1993 GREG at 00:30 EDT The specs for the new NEC triple speed drives came in the mail today. If I can get a 3xp for testing, I'll post the results when used with our XFS drivers and Photo Show. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 139 Sun Oct 24, 1993 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 10:41 EDT Greg, Does anyone have a Pioneer 604x to test? That would be interesting to see what type of response you get. Its the only 4x out there so far but I'm sure others are on the way. -- Albert ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 140 Sun Oct 24, 1993 S.DEITZ [Steve] at 20:19 EDT Today I brought home a NEC CDR-38 and I'm having problems with it. On my 4 meg Falcon, this drive is chained to a SyQuest (SCSI ID 0) and the CDR set at ID 1, using the ICD Pro booter (version 6.2.3) the drive is not recognized upon booting. Running the ICD IDCHECK the drive lists fine. When I boot using Atari's AHDI the drive logs on, but the XFS driver won't run without the ICD booter. Just for kicks I tried running ICDBOOT after all was loaded but the drive still didn't respond. And BTW: when MultiTOS gets around to loading the XFS driver it responds "SCSI device 1 not responding..." Any help would be appreciated. Thanx ----STEVE---- ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 141 Sun Oct 24, 1993 GREG at 23:28 EDT What version of the XFS driver are you using? You should have the dip switches on the CD rom drive set for double speed, SCSI-2 and the correct drive ID. The NEC-38 has proven quite reliable and right now I have one connected to my system using the version .6 XFS driver. If your still having trouble tomorrow night, give me a voice call at (314) 831- 9482. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 142 Sun Nov 07, 1993 J.COYLE3 [JAMIE] at 12:47 EST I'm sure I'm not the first person to ask this question, but can I add a CD ROM player to my ST? It's a 520STfm upgraded to 2.5Meg of memory. I'd like to use a ROM player for both Atari applications and Macintosh applications via the GCR Spectre. If this is a possibility given my hardware, any recommendations? Thanks. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 143 Sat Nov 13, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 14:35 EST Jamie, I too, would like to know what the capabilities of the ST are when it comes to CD ROMS. My kid needs access to encyclopedias. Am I going to have to buy a set for $1500 (since the librarys are only open two days a week now) or should I make the plunge into the world of the Mac and Windows systems? I've gathered from some of the messages that there isn't much available for the ST in the way of CD Software so I imagine there isn't any form of Encyclopedia available. Am I wrong or is this the point at which I get involved in another platform? Steve ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 144 Sun Nov 14, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 08:36 EST Steve, At this point it's gotta be another platform since ATARI can't get _anything_ done! There were roumors of an encyclopedia in 1987 or 88 when they had the CDAR-504 out, but no, I've never talked to anyone who can even claim to have seen the encyclopedia. I have a CDAR-504 and I've only got one Atari specific CD-ROM (a shareware/PD disk). There was recently a call for material for another shareware/PD disk back in September, but I don't know if it ever got made. I'd certainly buy one. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 145 Sun Nov 14, 1993 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 09:30 EST Actually I thought it was Atari who demonstrated Groliers CD-ROM at a CES show. I still remember there was an article on it in the old Antic magazine of 1985 or 1986. Groliers Encyclopedia. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 146 Sun Nov 14, 1993 G.NORTON [Falcon Systm] at 13:07 EST Steve, Since you are already on GEnie, why not use the encyclopedia on-line. I seem to recall it is the Groliers Encyclopedia which is the same as you can get on the PC Cd-ROMS. Graham @ Falcon Systems ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 147 Sun Nov 14, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 13:54 EST Yes, Atari demoed the Groliers CD-ROM at CES. I was there, played with it, talked to the T's about it, and was impressed. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 148 Sun Nov 14, 1993 M.EASTER [Mike] at 19:18 EST Steve Blackburn - re jumping platforms for CD-ROM Before you get too fired up to jump platforms to avail yourself of the wonders of CD-ROM you should examine carefully what is out there and what is not; and what some of the limitations are. For one, Atari is not alone in the compatibility arena in this issue. There are Mac disks, DOS disks, Windows disks, Amiga disks, and so on. If you decide that Windows is the way to go, get ready to enter the big bad world of memory management. I just spent some time roving around various bulletin boards trying to figure out how to most conveniently access some CD-ROM possibilities; reading the exchanges of those involved in trying to get efficient memory management from their Intel based machines was mind-boggling. A mainframe systems engineer commented that "structuring" his PC re memory was more challenging than his job. For many, Windows is a big memory hog and provides a slower system than other alternatives for Intel users. Right now I'm trying to find out more about what is available on DOS based disks. The craze seems to be multimedia. For my purposes, that is a big waste of CD-ROM space and compatibility possibilities. What I would like to see is a strong text based "library" of useful books, with decent search features. BookShelf is useful, and comes in several "flavors", DOS, Windows, ?Mac. I don't know why Britannica has expressed in the past that they have no interest in CD-ROM; their material has been handled in house electronically for more than a decade. I don't know if their position has changed recently. Groliers is no Britannica. There are some gaps for Atari machines to overcome in having access to CD-ROM based materials, but I'm not convinced that jumping platforms is the way to go. Continuing progress from ICD re SCSI and Compo re accessing DOS and Windows based front ends has a future. I _would_ like to sit around the crossword/ dining table with a laptop or notebook wirelessly communicating with a big optical based database in the computer room, but I would have to wait for that with whatever platform I was currently using. I also encountered somewhere in those BB rovings that of the many platforms that were examining porting their OS to the Power PC chipset, Atari was among them. That was classified as a rumor. Mike Easter ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 149 Sun Nov 14, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 21:56 EST Forget Dos. Get a Mac. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 150 Sun Nov 14, 1993 S.SHIRLEY5 [Sam] at 21:56 EST Steve - I think if you wanted to stay with Atari and get a CD ROM encyclopedia, you might want to check out either Spectre GCR or PC DITTO and a CD ROM. That way you can easily stay with Atari, pay less money, and still have your CD ROM Encyclopedia. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 151 Mon Nov 15, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:29 EST Albert, Could have been. I sure wish I knew where the master for it was now... Sam, I'm not sure, but I don't think you can access a CD-ROM via PC Ditto. First you'd have to get DOS 5.0 running, then, depending on what you wanted access to, you might have to get Windows 3.1 going. It might be possible, but I'm not hopeful. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 152 Mon Nov 15, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:28 EST Mike, Well said. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 153 Tue Nov 16, 1993 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 02:28 EST Mike, Once again, I have to agree with Al (Al, stop being so danged agreeable ;) You hit he nail right on the head, I have certainly had some similar thoughts about IBM/MAC and the usefulness of CD-ROMs. May I bore you some with a short tale? Good... I've always thought how 'neat' it would be to be able to use all those nifty CD ROM titles available for the IBM machines - imagine! I recently had the chance to live these dreams vicariously (sp) thorugh a IBM friend who just purchased a CD ROM for his clone. I went with him to pick up the drive and a few disks. It came with a encyclopedia, some pictures and he bought a shareware disk and a chess game. "What are you going to use it for?" I asked. The answer was vauge, but the power and flexibility issues came up often enough. I gave him a week of using it, I figured he'd get the most use of it during this time, before the 'newness' of it faded. And asked him, "In the past week, what have you used the drive for?" "Hmmmm, well I played chess!" The moral of the story? Sure it's a neat toy - but are you really going to be able to take advantage of it? It's great to be able to search on "Moon Landing" and hear Neil Armstrongs first radio call from the moon - but how the heckto you get that into your printed report? John ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 155 Tue Nov 16, 1993 R.WHITTAM [Ron - ABUG] at 22:34 EST > I'm not sure, but I don't think you can access a CD-ROM via > PC Ditto. First you'd have to get DOS 5.0 running, then, depending > on what you wanted access to, you might have to get Windows 3.1 > going. It might be possible, but DOS 5 worked great with my pc-DITTO II. However, Windows 3.1 requires a 286 or better. pc-DITTO II only has a NEC-V30 (XT compatable processor). There are also of DOS CD-ROM software that wont run with windows. I have a few games and the like that need too much BASE memory to run with WinDoze. You might be able to run some of that DOS CD-ROM software with pc-DITTO, maybe. Ron - ABUG ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 156 Wed Nov 17, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:38 EST Ron, Yeah. Maybe some of the shareware from CD-ROM too, but then there's the problem of CGA graphics. Photo CD is probably way - out there in never never land, but then who needs that when we have Photo Show (or whatever GREGG's product is called) on the Atari! Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 157 Thu Nov 18, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 03:07 EST Lee, Thats real disapointing. I knew there was talk about a CD Rom, but have never seen or heard of one. That's a real shame... Thanks for the info.... G.NORTON Someone mentioned to me that there was one here but I went through the product index (from Aladdin) and couldn't find it. I'll try again, thanks Mike, I'm not jumping ship, but I (my kid) needs access to an encyclopedia and the damm libraries are only open 2 days a week (how pathetic right) so I have to do something about it. I wanted to see what the ST had before I looked elswhere but havn't found much. I'm not sure it would be any better on another platform but I've got to find out. I've seen demos of some nice things, full color, animation etc. Whether I can get access to that is another. I have an old Spectre that i've never used (came with the system I bought used). Would I be able to hook up a mac compatable CD drive and use it normally? Steve ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 158 Thu Nov 18, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:48 EST Steve, I've used the encyclopedia on GEnie to help my daughter with her assignments. We captured the information with Aladdin and then formatted it a bit with 1ST Word, and voila! She had about 40 pages of notes on China to do her assignment from. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 159 Thu Nov 18, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 14:04 EST DAK is blowing out a CD ROM system for about $600. I think it's a 286. They are also blowing out a bunch of titles. (Cash flow problems). ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 160 Fri Nov 19, 1993 M.EASTER [Mike] at 02:51 EST Steve - re need an encyclopedia, Spectre I don't know what (intellectual) age your kid is, but a set of Britannicas is a wonderful addition to any home. If you want "power without the price", figure out how to get your hands on a used set; encyclopedias don't change _that_ much each year. If you get a set a few years old, be sure that it is one with the annual year books (Book of the Year) since publication. Even nicer would be to also have the year books for Science & the Future and Medicine & Health. Each index covers 3 years back, a handy feature. The Britannicas won't solve the problem of getting encyclopedia data on an electronic media; but I'm not sure we're trying to invite plagiarism in the young scholar anyway. It will do your heart good to see your kid curled up with the Britannica while s/he's lost on some sidetrack discovered while looking something up. I sound like an encyclopedia salesman. You may have to visit the Gadgets RT to find out about Spectre and CDROM. Re Dak and 286, cdrom blowout - Hey! I haven't seen that catalog, and I just got a recent Dak cat. Mike Easter ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 161 Fri Nov 19, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:45 EST Kenne, The reason that a '286 CD-ROM system is selling for $600 is the same reason '286 systems in general are all but worthless in today's GUI environment. About the only useful function a '286 can perform these days is running a BBS. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 162 Sat Nov 20, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:40 EST Al, Not to be too supportive of a '286, but it is also useful to those people who use a computer as a word processor - without the Windoze front end. Heck, I've got a TRS-80 Model 4 with CP/M that's about as useful. Gee, if I had a '286 I could use it to format 1.44 MB floppies for my MegaSTE! Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 163 Sat Nov 20, 1993 D.FARRINGTO1 [David <>< .] at 19:25 EST Lee B. A person sent a letter to ST Informer asking about where to get CD-ROM disk from. STI wrote back about COMPUTER ROCK located at 3785 Balboa, San Francisco, CA 94121. CR's phone is 415-751-8573. STI said CR offers two CD's. One of clip art and the other of shareware. There was another person wrote about QUICK ART from WAYZATA TECHNOLOGY. David <>< ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 164 Sat Nov 20, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 21:20 EST GENIELAMP.ST I can see the CD as a way to access an encyclopedia, print out the information that you want while having some nice color graphics displayed to explain some of the text. For business, mailing lists that you can tailor to a specific need from a base of millions. A map book that you could print out your days work with. Massive amounts of data on one disk that you can use to answer questions about just about anything. That's what I would LIKE to see in a CD library. But the point is moot since it doesn't exist in the Atari world. Heck, most of the things I just listed probably don't even exist on any platform outside some kind of large company network somewhere. I can see a lot of uses for this kind of thing. It would be nice if some of the services were available online (they probably are somewhere). The important things would be the ability to get all this information in a format that you can use. Steve ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 165 Sun Nov 21, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 04:31 EST The Encyclopedia does exist, so does the Business and residential phone books. However, as you said, they aren't on the Atari (unless they run under an emulator). The phone book costs about $200. It's available for DOS now (with the search engines) and, supposedly, for the Mac in the first quarter of next year. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 166 Sun Nov 21, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:37 EST Lee, Yes; alas, you are right. One of the best uses for a '286 PC is formatting disks. I'm glad I have a TT and an ST, which do more than that. :) Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 167 Sun Nov 21, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 11:12 EST D.Farringto1, Thanks for the specifics on Computer Rock. Can you say more about QUICK ART from WAYZATA TECHNOLOGY ? I've never heard of it. Steve B., Novel (the PC networking people) sell a CD-ROM that contains a copy of the database that their support people access to answer installation and other questions. I think it's like a Lotus Notes conference or some such in a question and answer format that is searchable, etc. There are some questions about their new release that they've said you can only get the answers for by buying the CD-ROM. I don't remember how much the CD-ROM costs. Is that blackmail or just lousy support ? I could imagine GEnie or somebody publishing a CD ROM containing the full contents of the Atari Roundtable discussions for a year in ASCII format (if it would fit!). Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 168 Sun Nov 21, 1993 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 14:12 EST Steve, Good points about the use of CD-ROM. That's exactly what I think the ideal use of it is. John ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 170 Mon Nov 22, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:24 EST Lee, if enough Atari users had CD-ROMs, we'd see all sorts of data and software published for CD-ROM on the Atari. What's needed are two things that must happen first: o A CD-ROM driver that goes into the auto folder and makes the CD-ROM look like a large hard drive to ICD software. o An affordable CD-ROM drive. The second has come true, although we'd all like to see one that is at least 4X speed and costs no more than $25. :) As for the first, does anyone know if there is a simple, workable CD-ROM driver for the ST, TT and Falcon? One that doesn't need MultiTOS or MiNT? Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 171 Mon Nov 22, 1993 GREG at 22:42 EST Al: Right now the only reliable CD rom driver for the Falcon requires MultiTOS. We do include a copy of the driver in our Photo Show package. We will also be bundling a desktop Kodak Photo CD viewer, latest XFS CD rom driver (requiring MultiTOS), and an Atari specific CD rom disc in a value packed package in the very near future. We will be posting all the detail this weekend in TOP 7, CAT 9. There are several third parties working on new drivers right now. If I hear any good news on them I will post it here. The XFS drivers do make a CD rom disc look like a very large hard disc right now. In fact the latest XFS will even let you switch between Kodak Photo CD format and standard 9660 format on the fly. Installing a CD rom drive on the Falcon is actually easier than hooking one to a PC. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 172 Tue Nov 23, 1993 D.FARRINGTO1 [David <>< .] at 00:21 EST Lee B. ....About QUICK ART from WAYZATA TECHENOLGY, I can't give you the address. I got the information from a letter written to ST INFORMER magazine. I think the best thing would be to ask ask Rod @ STI. That's all I know. :) David <>< ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 173 Tue Nov 23, 1993 R.WHITTAM [Ron - ABUG] at 00:25 EST Al, re: A CD-ROM driver in the form of an AUTO folder program that would make the ROM look like a huge hard drive. Will ADHI handle a 650MB hard drive? Wouldn't it be a "write-protected" drive? Where would one get the specs for such a "generic" driver? Who is qualified to attempt it? How much cash would anyone pay for such a product? Just a few more questions Ron - ABUG ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 174 Tue Nov 23, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:15 EST GREG, I've used some of the _other_ CD-ROM drivers and they're good. I can switch between High Sierra and ISO 9660 on-the-fly using an old Atari CDAR-504 on a MegaSTE w/TOS 2.06. No word on general availability yet, but things are coming down the pike, but never fast enough! David, I can look for the letter in STI, what issue was it in ? Ron, I don't know about ADHI as I use ICD Hard Drive software. Yes, a large read-only drive, but usually not displayed as read-only and when you copy off of it, the files will automatically become read-write. There are people out there who are addressing the problem. GREG knows, or knows of most of them. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 175 Tue Nov 23, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:17 EST Greg, Thanks for the update, and keep us TT'ers in mind for a compatible Photo Show! Ron, My hunch is that we'll have a CD-ROM driver that does not need MTOS sometime soon. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 176 Tue Nov 23, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 10:44 EST Lee, Thanks for the info. How do you access the Encyclopedia on Genie. Can it be done via Aladdin or do you have to go manual? I can't seem to find it in the product index listed by Aladdin. A friend of mine showed me the system he put together for his kid. A 386DX-33 with 120meg drive and a CD drive. He had Groilliers and a bunch of other things on the CD (like Thesauras and world atlas [I'm going to need one just to spell some of the words :-)] plus a few other things. It was real nice setup. He sells them at the computer swapmeets and wants to put together one for me for around $800. It's real tempting. Steve ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 177 Tue Nov 23, 1993 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 14:17 EST Steve, I don't think you can access Groliers with Aladdin, though it's been a long time since I tried and undoubtedly you could write a script to do it. Look on page 301 for it. Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 178 Tue Nov 23, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 18:51 EST I think someone wrote a script for Aladdin and Groliers. Check the ST Aladdin RT library. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 179 Wed Nov 24, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:37 EST Steve, I think you get to Grolier on GEnie by typing either GROLIER or M GROLIER in manual mode from ALADDIN. Probably just GROLIER. Remember to turn on Aladdin's capture buffer before you start looking around then you'll have a copy of all that you saw. I usually just search around and ignore the outputs and print out the capture file for my daughter to reference while working on her paper. That system for $800 is a real deal depending on what kind of display is with it. I'd be sorely tempted too. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 180 Wed Nov 24, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 08:33 EST Lee/Steve, You need to type "groliers". Without the "s" it won't work. There use to be a script for it but it isn't worth it. You may need to do a few searches to get the right information. ~~Brian..Written on Wednesday 24 November 1993 at 09:13 a.m. ADT ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 181 Wed Nov 24, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:41 EST Lee, What kind of display, how much memory (and how much can be added later), how fast the HD, how good the motherboard, and how good the warranty. $800 computers cost $800 for a reason. :) Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 182 Wed Nov 24, 1993 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 09:28 EST Just type GROLIER and you will get there. I have used Grolier for my children's reports every now and then. It helps when you have several references. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 183 Thu Nov 25, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 12:03 EST Al, Of course! I could have gotten into local bus video, SCSI vs IDE hard drives, etc. but I was in a hurry. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 184 Thu Nov 25, 1993 T.YURICK [T.YURICK] at 21:18 EST Lee... Wayzata Technology's "Quick Art" is a CD of "professionally drawn, top quality, 300 dpi images by Wheeler Arts" The PC version has all images in TIFF, IMG, and PCX formats. It also includes a paperback image catalog. There are two versions (each in PC/Amiga/Atari/Unix and Mac flavors), Quick Art Lite with over 1700 images and Quick Art Deluxe with over 3300 images. The Lite version can be upgraded later if you want. The SRP is $119 for Lite and $349 for Deluxe. The street prices are probably much less. Wayzata Technology Inc. 2515 east Highway 2 Grand Rapids, Minnesota 55744 1-800-735-7321 FAX (218) 326-0598 Regards, Tom ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 185 Fri Nov 26, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 07:59 EST Tom, Thanks for the information on "Quick Art". Those prices are tempting. If you've got a PC, the v3.0 version of Corel Draw is going for about $130-150 right now and looks to be a good package. You get both diskettes and a CD-ROM and clip art images with an index book. I forget what format the clip art is in though. I've got two or three friends who have bought it lately and it looks like a pretty good package for the price - especially on the PC. Based on my experiences of trying to catalog a CD-ROM of clip art, the "Quick Art" sounds better and better since it comes with a hard-copy of the images included. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 186 Sat Nov 27, 1993 T.YURICK [T.YURICK] at 19:33 EST Lee... One thing I forgot to mention about the Quick Art CD's is that judging from my Wayzata catalog, all of the images are B/W. Since Wayzata has a toll-free phone number, the best way to be sure is to call them. Yes, the CorelDraw clipart collection is very nice. I have been using CorelDraw since version 2.11 and currently run 4.0. I think that 3.0 is one of the hottest deals around right now, and unless you need a specific feature in 4.0 it is definitely the way to go. I don't know if you've seen it, but the clipart catalog in 4.0 is really nice, with full color printing. They _wrecked_ the whole thing though, by changing the indexing to a strange, icon based system that is much harder to use than the 3.0 index. I think it had something to do with keeping the different vendors separate within each category. I still use the 3.0 index alot because most of the clips are the same. Regards, Tom ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 187 Sun Nov 28, 1993 G.FUQUAY [GGF] at 08:45 EST Sam, your mentioning PC Ditto and the CD Rom is interesting. I have a Supercharger, would it be possible for me to use a CD Rom with it? If so, what would be the procedure? Thanks, GGF ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 188 Sun Nov 28, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 14:17 EST To All Re: Groliers Thanks, I'll give it a try... Al, The guy who is offering me the computer builds them and sells them at different computer swapmeets. He's doing it as a favor to me at his cost. I imagine It'll be as good as I can afford. It's basicly for my daughter, but thanks for mentioning those different aspects (I was going to take that into consideration anyway). I don't want to be stuck with a dog irregardless of who uses it, so I'll probably get something good or I won't get it at all. I wish the Power PC were available now (runs both Mac and PC software). That would be interesting. Steve ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 189 Sun Nov 28, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 21:00 EST Steve, I understand. As for the Power PC, a reminder: A horse that is a cow AND a horse probably won't win races and surely won't give milk. Multi-OS PCs have never caught on, and never will. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 190 Mon Nov 29, 1993 M.KOHL1 [ZIPPY] at 09:02 EST The Power PC will be available in about 4 months! ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 191 Mon Nov 29, 1993 S.SHIRLEY5 [Sam] at 20:35 EST GGF - To tell you the truth, I really don't know seeing how I do not own either one. All I can assume(and you know what they say about assuming! :) ) is that you might look for a CD-ROM driver for the PC and install it. I don't know. Hopefully someone else will have a better idea on here. Anyone? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 192 Mon Nov 29, 1993 S.SHIRLEY5 [Sam] at 20:41 EST There is a rumour around that people are sugegsting to Atari an Atari PowerPC. That'd be WONDERFUL!! ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 193 Mon Nov 29, 1993 M.KOHL1 [ZIPPY] at 21:06 EST Al, >Multi-OS PCs have never caught on, and never will. Never say never! ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 194 Tue Nov 30, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 02:13 EST I predict PowerPC will amaze, delight, and ruthlessly conquer the computer world. It will also remove at least one reason for computer religious wars but they'll still be folks that claim dedicated platforms are "the one true way" much as there are still audiophiles that think CD's are a fad and vinyl we be back because they think everybody will finally hear the alleged digital artifacting around 12KHz. Yeah, right. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 195 Sat Dec 04, 1993 GREG at 00:34 EST has anyone tried hooking up a NEC 3xP Cd rom drive to a Falcon? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 196 Sun Dec 05, 1993 G.NELSON16 [GFN] at 11:32 EST >Atari-ST RoundTable >Category 4, Topic 19 >Message 170 Mon Nov 22, 1993 >A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:24 EST > >Lee, > >if enough Atari users had CD-ROMs, we'd see all sorts of data and software >published for CD-ROM on the Atari. What's needed are two things that must >happen first: > >---------- > Ah the ATARI catch 22 if more people had cd roms more would be available, but since there isn't much available no one is buying cd roms. One of these days maybe we won't have to encounter this catch 22. We can dream can't we? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 197 Sun Dec 05, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 21:48 EST I would love to buy a CD ROM. If I could only find a way to access the Phone Files, Maps, Books, and Periodicals on disk. That is the one thing that might end up forcing me to a PC machine. I really don's want to go to a PC (I work with them 8 hours a day) and now is a very poor time in my opinion to get into DOS. There is just too much going on right now. Power PC OS/2 (looks like it is going to follow the Beta VCRs) NT and other developments. I am sure I would put the $$ in a great system only to find it on the way out in 6 months. That is not to say it will dry up over night, but if I go I want to be on the cutting edge and that is the part of the business that is going to dry up fast. (WordPerfect has just announced they are not going to support additional development in OS/2 and it will not get the current version 6.0. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 198 Mon Dec 06, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 03:21 EST Yes, what we need is a CD-ROM driver for all the Atari models and one that does not requires the slow MultiTos. Not all of us desire to run MultiTos. We have been asking for something for CD-ROM for years but, it doesn't look like anyone is interested. I guess there just isn't enough users to justify it. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 199 Mon Dec 06, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 05:36 EST Greetings, Run don't walk to your nearest newsagent (to use a british term, the closest equivalent here is a grocery store!) and pick up the premier issue of Multimedia World for $4.00. It's a spin off of PC World and mostly talks about 'BM stuff, but it provides a lot of information about what's available on CD-ROM. AND It comes with a CD-ROM in the bag called Test Drive for Windows. Subscriptions are for a1 $9.97 for 12 issues and you get an 80MB CD- ROM of clipart with your subscription! Call 1-800-766-3294 extension 205. The card I got this off of has a "4AAJ1" number on it. Again, I don't know how much we Atarians can get out of it, but for $4.00 it's well worth the information in the magazine. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 200 Mon Dec 06, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:04 EST GFN, This is the same catch-22 that caused Atari to not produce the CDAR- 504 CD-ROM Drive that they showed at COMDEX in Atlanta in 1987. Atari could have been a leader in CD-ROM. :( Wayne, I've been beta testing CD-ROM drivers "for the rest of us" that don't require MultiTOS. Roger Burrows (R.BURROWS1) of Anodyne Software is working on them and is quite close to having a product ready. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 201 Mon Dec 06, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:00 EST Joe, You have hit the PC nail squarely on the head. The Atari platform is mature and understandable, and the software is solid, while the PC platform is changing so fast that potential users need guidebooks just to know where to *start* the journey. (One of my newspaper columns deals solely with Q&A, and this is a big issue to many people.) Joe and Wayne, A CD-ROM software solution will be at hand before long. I wish I could say more, but those of us who would love to use a CD-ROM with the ST, TT and Falcon should not despair. Al ------------