========================================================================= (C) 1994 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 19 Sat Mar 14, 1992 T.KAY3 [TKAY] at 01:40 EST Sub: CD ROM and SCSI on Atari ST There's gotta be a way to run available CD ROM drivers on the ST! ? Does anybody know how to do it? And, who are the brave souls that want to write the software drivers for it? 209 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 1 Mon Nov 29, 1993 M.KOHL1 [ZIPPY] at 21:06 EST Al, >Multi-OS PCs have never caught on, and never will. Never say never! ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 2 Tue Nov 30, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 02:13 EST I predict PowerPC will amaze, delight, and ruthlessly conquer the computer world. It will also remove at least one reason for computer religious wars but they'll still be folks that claim dedicated platforms are "the one true way" much as there are still audiophiles that think CD's are a fad and vinyl we be back because they think everybody will finally hear the alleged digital artifacting around 12KHz. Yeah, right. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 3 Sat Dec 04, 1993 GREG at 00:34 EST has anyone tried hooking up a NEC 3xP Cd rom drive to a Falcon? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 4 Sun Dec 05, 1993 G.NELSON16 [GFN] at 11:32 EST >Atari-ST RoundTable >Category 4, Topic 19 >Message 170 Mon Nov 22, 1993 >A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:24 EST > >Lee, > >if enough Atari users had CD-ROMs, we'd see all sorts of data and software >published for CD-ROM on the Atari. What's needed are two things that must >happen first: > >---------- > Ah the ATARI catch 22 if more people had cd roms more would be available, but since there isn't much available no one is buying cd roms. One of these days maybe we won't have to encounter this catch 22. We can dream can't we? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 5 Sun Dec 05, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 21:48 EST I would love to buy a CD ROM. If I could only find a way to access the Phone Files, Maps, Books, and Periodicals on disk. That is the one thing that might end up forcing me to a PC machine. I really don's want to go to a PC (I work with them 8 hours a day) and now is a very poor time in my opinion to get into DOS. There is just too much going on right now. Power PC OS/2 (looks like it is going to follow the Beta VCRs) NT and other developments. I am sure I would put the $$ in a great system only to find it on the way out in 6 months. That is not to say it will dry up over night, but if I go I want to be on the cutting edge and that is the part of the business that is going to dry up fast. (WordPerfect has just announced they are not going to support additional development in OS/2 and it will not get the current version 6.0. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 6 Mon Dec 06, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 03:21 EST Yes, what we need is a CD-ROM driver for all the Atari models and one that does not requires the slow MultiTos. Not all of us desire to run MultiTos. We have been asking for something for CD-ROM for years but, it doesn't look like anyone is interested. I guess there just isn't enough users to justify it. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 7 Mon Dec 06, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 05:36 EST Greetings, Run don't walk to your nearest newsagent (to use a british term, the closest equivalent here is a grocery store!) and pick up the premier issue of Multimedia World for $4.00. It's a spin off of PC World and mostly talks about 'BM stuff, but it provides a lot of information about what's available on CD-ROM. AND It comes with a CD-ROM in the bag called Test Drive for Windows. Subscriptions are for a1 $9.97 for 12 issues and you get an 80MB CD- ROM of clipart with your subscription! Call 1-800-766-3294 extension 205. The card I got this off of has a "4AAJ1" number on it. Again, I don't know how much we Atarians can get out of it, but for $4.00 it's well worth the information in the magazine. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 8 Mon Dec 06, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:04 EST GFN, This is the same catch-22 that caused Atari to not produce the CDAR- 504 CD-ROM Drive that they showed at COMDEX in Atlanta in 1987. Atari could have been a leader in CD-ROM. :( Wayne, I've been beta testing CD-ROM drivers "for the rest of us" that don't require MultiTOS. Roger Burrows (R.BURROWS1) of Anodyne Software is working on them and is quite close to having a product ready. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 9 Mon Dec 06, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:00 EST Joe, You have hit the PC nail squarely on the head. The Atari platform is mature and understandable, and the software is solid, while the PC platform is changing so fast that potential users need guidebooks just to know where to *start* the journey. (One of my newspaper columns deals solely with Q&A, and this is a big issue to many people.) Joe and Wayne, A CD-ROM software solution will be at hand before long. I wish I could say more, but those of us who would love to use a CD-ROM with the ST, TT and Falcon should not despair. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 11 Tue Dec 07, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EST Lee, What Seedy ROM unit do you use? Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 12 Tue Dec 07, 1993 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:27 EST Al, Would you believe an Atari CDAR-504 ? It's true. There may not be many of them out there, but I have one. In fact, I'm listening to a Christmas CD on it right now. It's made me a valuable beta tester so, it can't be too bad . It still hacks me off that Atari didn't sell hell out of them in 1987! We'd have our Encyclopedia and be leaders in CD-ROM titles by now! Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 13 Tue Dec 07, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 07:34 EST Message 9, Mon Dec 06, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] It seems we both have a PC management job and know about their problems and therefor share many of the same views. Part of my job is managing the PC's for my division (about 70 employees). It's good to hear about the potential solution!! >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 14 Tue Dec 07, 1993 B.GRIER at 21:02 EST Is any one here interested in a CD-Rom driver that supports multiple CD- drives, works on all STs/STEs/TTs and Falcons and only requires the user have MiNT 0.95 (or higher) and ICD hard drive software? I have such a driver but have not decided whether or not to market it. It has been test with Chinon, NEC, TEXEL, and Apple CD-Rom drives. If you are interested please send me mail or post here Brian ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 15 Tue Dec 07, 1993 GREG at 22:00 EST B.GRIER: Lots os interest from ST and STe users for CD rom drivers that work as well as the Falcon driver we include with Photo Show. Give me a voice call at (314) 831-9482. I have an idea that you may be very interested in. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 16 Wed Dec 08, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:11 EST Brian, The MiNT part turns me off. If it can run under Geneva, fine. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 17 Wed Dec 08, 1993 B.GRIER at 22:43 EST Greg, I'll call you Thursday or Friday Afternoon Al, MiNT isn't all that bad if ou have 0.95 or 1.08, the others were just to buggy to keep running. Brian ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 18 Thu Dec 09, 1993 R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{] at 00:45 EST B.GRIER - A CD ROM player that works on the Falcon would be of great interest to me. I have Photo Show and it provides access to CD ROM data directories and to stored photos, graphics, and programs, but not to audio. The various audio players available for the ST do not seem to work with the Falcon. (:{ Grouch. Greg - Any news on the revised Photo Show allowing for a CD player as well as accessing pictures? How about DMJ's viewII(2)? (:{ Grouch.*S ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 19 Thu Dec 09, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 20:34 EST Yep, the MiNT part will KILL it for me. A good CD-ROM driver needs to work under all OSes without the need of something to slow down the system. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 20 Thu Dec 09, 1993 GREG at 23:25 EST Grouch: Work is proceeding on an Atari Falcon CD audio player. Will let you know when something is ready. Wayne Watson: If you have MultiTOS set up correctly and add a few tweaks it becomes a very nice OS. Right now I only turn it off when I really have to. The problem is not MultiTOS itself, but the very weak documentation that comes with it. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 21 Fri Dec 10, 1993 GREG at 00:50 EST For some news on CD rom and the Falcon 030, read CAT 30, TOP 9, message 14. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 22 Fri Dec 10, 1993 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 01:40 EST Greg, How about posting 'how' you speed up MultiTOS? Even then, MiNT doesn't work with Geneva yet. --Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 23 Fri Dec 10, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 06:31 EST I played with MultiTos on a freinds system and to tell you the truth, I did not like it. This of course was on a MSTE @ 16mhz. It is not compatible with a lot of things (even where the developer followed the rules). I saw Geneva at the Blue Ridge AtariFest which was demonstrated for me. I like it a LOT better. It looks better, acts better, is faster, etc. than MTOS. It is compatible with more things also. I like a lot of the features of Geneva. At the moment, I have no need for a Multi-tasking environment but, when I do, it will be Geneva and NOT MTOS. Another reason for the request of CDROM drivers for all TOSes is because of the fact that 8mhz is not fast enough to handle MTOS. It is not as bad at 16mhz (I have a MSTE and hopefully soon, a TinyTurbo). Either way, why should I SLOWDOWN my system more than it already is by installing a multitaking environment when I have no need for on JUST to run a CDROM driver? I understand that a CDROM driver for those of us that don't want MTOS is in the works and that is GREAT!!! I feel that it will do better. Don't get me wrong, I am glad Atari has finally come out with a multitasking environment but, it still needs a lot of work and a lot of SPEED added to it. I hope it doesn't end up like windoze where a high speed 496 is needed to get a decent speed out of it. Atari should have went with Geneva when it was offered to them. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 24 Fri Dec 10, 1993 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 07:12 EST Brian: I have to agree with Al -- the MiNT part of the CD ROM solution would be something I could dispense with as well.... However, if it's the only thing out there...... -- Dave @ Binary Ink ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 25 Sat Dec 11, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 08:39 EST Message 23, Fri Dec 10, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] Off topic, but remember the MultiTos you saw has likely been updated and I would expect additional updates, the Geneva at Blue Ridge I believe was a beta so the release version should also be better. When the time comes to buy I suggest you investigate both on the same type of machine running the same programs you expect to run. Any salesman worth his commission can make his product look better than the competition. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 26 Sat Dec 11, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 13:40 EST You mean the "same" _types_ of programs I hope. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 27 Sat Dec 11, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 19:13 EST Joe, The version of MultiTos I have seen is the release version. Also, there are a LOT of people using Geneva that also feel the same way I do. It wasn't just the salesman. I believe they will improve MultiTos but, Geneva is already better and will get even better. Actually, it is MiNT that needs the speed boost. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 28 Sun Dec 12, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 02:05 EST Well, I did it. I got my CD Rom drive. But then I had to buy a PC to run it :- ) I got a 486DX/66 4 megs ram 340 meg HD 3.5 and 5.25 drives Double speed CD drive SoundBlaster/ with speakers .28 SVGA monitor Tower case Windows 3.1/Dos 6 games and some fantastic CD's Grolliers Encyclopedia Toolworks " Mavis Beacon to teach the kid to type Chestmaster World atlas US atlas A neat CD that tours the San Diego Zoo A CD on Animals and a few more things I can't think of at the moment. This is a nice machine. It's fast, it's solid (unlike my ST that crashes so often) and I've got enough storage to last awhile. The guy who sold it to me took me step by step in putting it together myself (an amazing feat in itself). He did all the installing of the software. The CD drive gave him the biggest headache. He had to spend an hour on the phone with the tech support in Texas (remember tech support) to get it going but it works great now. He charged me $1400 which was his cost for all the parts. This is an incredible system, the multitasking is flawless, the color is beautiful (1260x800 or something) and the Multimedia aspect of the CD's really opens up a new world. The animations, film clips, CD sound, the searching capabilities of the Encyclopedias are just amazing. Some of the programs even talk to you. My kid is learning to type with it and the CD tells her what she is doing wrong and how to correct it in a sexy voice. I bought a magazine today that included a CD with 650 megs worth of demos, clip art, utilities, and all kinds of things. I've been looking at catalogs that have thousands of different CD/s for whatever your perversion might be. I'm Jazzed.... I'm not dumping my ST though, it does what I want it to do with my DTP work. But the PC will be a nice compliment for doing things the ST can't. I was going to get a 386sx with smaller drives and the like, but when my friend showed me what I could get for a few bucks more, I went for it. And he will be there to help me when the shit hits the fan too. He's been trying to get me to get a PC for a long time. I guess I won't be getting a TT any time soon but it was this or buying an expensive set of encyclopedias and other reference materials my kid needed. Onward.... Steve Blackburn ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 29 Sun Dec 12, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:56 EST Wayne, I don't think I come across anyone who, when seeing both Geneva and MultiTOS side-by-side, hasn't agreed on the superiority of Geneva.m A lot of the doubters just plain haven't seen or used Geneva, and can't imagine that it is fast, compatible and easy to use. Al Steve, Sounds like a nice system. Buy a copy of Voodoo Windows, a great little book, for tips on working with Microsloth's monster. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 30 Sun Dec 12, 1993 SAM-RAPP [<>] at 11:18 EST Steve -----> I think I saw an ad for that "Chestmaster" in the back of a computer shopper magazine! ;-) =========> Sam_030 ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 32 Mon Dec 13, 1993 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 07:49 EST Nyaa, Atari hasn't disappeared. They just have ~200 total worldwide employees working like mad to make the Jaguar a success. Can you say too little manpower? At least those left are good. :) BTW, my 486 is no slouch. But I still like my Falcon with Notator Logic. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 33 Wed Dec 22, 1993 G.NELSON16 [GFN] at 19:15 EST >Atari-ST RoundTable >Category 4, Topic 19 >Message 8 Mon Dec 06, 1993 >L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:04 EST > >GFN, > > This is the same catch-22 that caused Atari to not produce the CDAR- >504 CD-ROM Drive that they showed at COMDEX in Atlanta in 1987. Atari could >have been a leader in CD-ROM. :( > They could have been a leader in many avenues however.......... Al Does Geneva need Neodesk to run ? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 34 Fri Dec 24, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 09:02 EST GFN, No, Geneva does not need NeoDesk to run. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 35 Sat Dec 25, 1993 M.FARMER1 [King Sparta] at 18:21 EST To: R.Watson15 Well About 2 Years Ago The Guy Who Was Making The Atari CD-Rom Driver Was In 2 Motor Cycle Acidents and that delayed the CD-Rom Driver (Thats What Atari Said At The time). I Have Just About Given Up On Atari And I Have Been A Die Hard Atari User (Since 1983 When I Bought A 1200XL that was only sold for about 2 months). Atari Just Don't Have It For The Computer Market, Maybe the Game Market Might Help Them If they Support The Jaguar. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 36 Mon Dec 27, 1993 GREG at 23:56 EST M.FARMER1: You may have given uo too early! While there is still not a CD rom driver for the 1200 XL, there are reliable drivers that will now work with everything from the 520 ST to the Falcon 030. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 37 Thu Dec 30, 1993 R.WOODBRIDG1 [Rob] at 21:24 EST Greg, Pardon my ignorance, but how does one get these drivers? I have a 520ST. And what do I need to look for when shopping for a CD-ROM drive so that it will work with 520 and said driver? Thanks. Rob ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 38 Fri Dec 31, 1993 S.LYSTER [Stu Lyster] at 06:02 EST > A CD-ROM software solution will be at hand before long. I wish I > could say more, but those of us who would love to use a CD-ROM with > the ST, TT and Falcon should not despair. > > Al Al Fasoldt - I just dug this message out from a post you made here on Dec 6/93. Is there any place where there is more infor on Atari and CD-ROM? I have just seen a 4 meg 486/25 MHz running CD-ROM stuff... and even as limited as it was, it was the one thing that would push me into the precarious world of DOS (shudder: I always make the sign of the cross when those thoughts come to me.... :) ). Can you say more about what lies ahead for our beloved platform in relation to CD-ROM titles that are out there? Stu. BTW - what is a minimum Atari configuration for the beat-versions of CD-ROM drivers out there? I have a sneaky feeling that my 520ST 1 meg, with TOS 1.04 just won't cut it! Even dreams bump into reality once in a while. BTW PT2 - This business of, "[Atari] could have been a leader in many avenues...." reminds me of Marlon Brando's line in "On the Waterfront": "I could'a been a contenda..." My fear is that we'll all be scrawling into our ST's the very same comment. BTW PT3 - I second Rob Woodbrige's question. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 39 Fri Dec 31, 1993 L.CHANDLER [LINDA] at 23:17 EST Stu Lyster, Have you checked out Walnut Creek's CD Rom? Comes with a Photo CD Viewer. Looks great. Might be awhile yet for proper drivers, although there are a couple that run under multitos, but that won't do you any good. Problem seems to be in Tos or some such, they anly read half the CDRom files. Check the CDRom cat. here on GEnie. BTW folks, are you aware that Stu Lyster is without doubt and by peer consensus the finest local BBS Sysop in British Columbia? Thought not. The thought of such a fine person escaping to the Dos mess is unconscionable. Linda. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 40 Sat Jan 01, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 04:01 EST Stu, I wish I had more info. But it's on the way. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 41 Sat Jan 01, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 12:42 EST Linda, I've known Stu and his reputation for a long, long time, probably close to 10 years. Stu, don't leave us now! Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 42 Sat Jan 01, 1994 S.LYSTER [Stu Lyster] at 13:08 EST Linda - yer makin' me . From where did that particular rumour spring?! I am familiar with Photo CD viewers. However, when the cash becomes available (ain't it always that way?) I want to get into CD-ROM reading, not just looking at pictures of me at the beach. From my poking around, it seems that the Falcon030 world will not be going in that direction. I'd be the first to mourn an Intel chip sitting on my desk - but what can one do? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 43 Sat Jan 01, 1994 S.LYSTER [Stu Lyster] at 13:20 EST Al - now *you're* making me . Besides, it hasn't been ten years. It only seems that way. I first got on to GEnie in 1989 with my interest in BB/ST bulletin board software (still one of my favourites!) and you and I hit it off like long lost brothers. I suspected that you were one of the folks spreading rumours about me. How many times do I have to tell you - the episode regarding the goats was greatly exaggerated! :) ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 44 Sun Jan 02, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:16 EST Stu, One can encourage the Atari community to deliver want you want and need. As for the goats, I thought it was the sheep. But then, Atarians are unusual people, anyway. :) ('89? But Stu, you and I ran the ST area on NWI, long before that....) Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 45 Sun Jan 02, 1994 R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn] at 14:07 EST Anodyne Software announces: ExtenDOS: CD Extensions for TOS ------------------------------- Would you like to join the CD-ROM revolution but: . couldn't get Atari's MetaDOS(tm) package to work properly . don't want the complication and overhead of running MultiTOS(tm) just to get CD-ROM support ? ExtenDOS is the answer! It allows you to access any ISO9660 or High Sierra format CD-ROM as if it were a removable hard disk. You can switch between supported disk formats without a reboot, access files of any size, and it even provides a builtin configurable cache facility to speed up data accesses. ExtenDOS CD Extensions requires a SCSI CD-ROM drive connected to a SCSI port directly, or to an ACSI port via an ICD host adapter. It has been validated on the ST, the MegaSTe, and the TT, with various models of CD-ROM drive. Additional hardware support is currently under development; please contact us at the address below if you require support for equipment not specified above. ExtenDOS is available immediately at only $19.95 (including shipping & handling) from: Anodyne Software 6 Cobbler Court Ottawa Ontario K1V 0B8 CANADA. Please make your payment by cheque or money order, in US$ for shipping to the U.S.A., in Canadian$ for shipping within Canada. Ontario residents please add 8% sales tax. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 46 Sun Jan 02, 1994 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 15:16 EST Well now. There's an announcement a lot of people have been waiting for for a long time. Well done, Roger! Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 47 Sun Jan 02, 1994 GREG at 15:33 EST Linda: It sounds like you were trying an old version of MetaDOS and drivers. The original version did have problems with larger files. The current version corrects these problems. Get the latest version of MetaDOS and you'll find out that it does work properly. You may want to check out ExtenDOS too. Perhaps Roger can post a list of drives the drivers support here. On the Falcon with MultiTOS, you'll also find the XFS system works very well with both standard 9660 discs and Kodak Photo CD format. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 48 Sun Jan 02, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 17:21 EST Great, Roger! You'll have my order. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 49 Sun Jan 02, 1994 S.LYSTER [Stu Lyster] at 18:05 EST Al - Yes, you are right, we did run into each other on NWIIS... but that only goes back as far as '88 for me. As for the sheep, I would have sworn they were goats! If the Atari community needs encouragement for developing the full range, past and future, of CD-ROM stuff, consider it so encouraged. I'd do it myself, but my programming skills are the equivolent to someone with five thumbs on each hand. The currently lack of critical CD-ROM stuff in the Atari environment is a potential fatal hole in our existence. * * * * * * * R.BURROWS1 (Roger) - can you supply a list of CD-ROM titles that work with ExtenDOS? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 50 Sun Jan 02, 1994 GREG at 22:36 EST STU: If ExtenDOS supports 9660 format, this means that you will be able to read data from about 95% of all CD roms available. The 9660 format is the standard for both the Mac and PC. You will be able to read data from either platform. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 51 Mon Jan 03, 1994 R.SATTLER [Mr.X] at 04:50 EST Great news about ExtenDOS! I assume there would be no problems running it from a BBS? I'd love to have it serve up some of the PD/SW CD's available. Instead of wasting TONS of hard drive space for (IMHO) useless IBM files that are popular with my users, I could just direct them to the IBM CD ROM full of goodies! :-) Also, is it possible to have multiple CD ROM drives connected to one ST? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 52 Mon Jan 03, 1994 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:36 EST Message 45, Sun Jan 02, 1994 R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn] ExtenDOS: CD Extensions for TOS sounds great. Now my question is how accessible will the data indexes or whatever is commonly on the disk be? Many of the available programs are, I believe, indexed. Is the index format available? I will be out looking for a SCSI CD-ROM soon, I should even be able to use it on my NoteBook. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 53 Mon Jan 03, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:54 EST Roger, ================== Ta Da ======================= Congratulations on the release of ExtenDOS! A lot of people have been asking for a product like this! Best of luck with it. Mr. X, I have had no problem with standard IBM style ISO 9660 CD-ROMS and Roger's drivers. It should work great on a BBS with the typical IBM Shareware CD-ROM. I believe that it's set up to handle at least two CD-ROM drives and they don't even have to be the same type. Remember that the really spiffy CD-ROM applications use all kinds of data indexing, compression and even encryption to achieve what they do. These drivers will work fine with any Atari or PC PD library disks or other disks using the standard Atari/PC file system. Don't expect to be able to run PC specific applications or games. The good news is that having this lowest level of file access available should (I hope) encourage someone to seriously think about converting the driver programs for applications like an encyclopedia for example, specifically for the Atari market. Here's a list of the CD-ROMs that I have used on the Atari with these drivers: o The ST Software Library by D&C Enterprises - over 150MB of Public Domain Software for the Atari ST series of computers. Circa August 1989. o VGA Spectrum by S&S Enterprises - PC PD/Shareware including over 1600 GIF format pictures, clip art and sound files. Copyright 1991. Much of the artwork and sound files are usable by the Atari either directly or via conversion programs. o VGA Spectrum II by S&S Enterprises - PC PD/Shareware including over 800 .MOD (Amiga music) files, 1100 .VOC (sound) files and 350 .FLI (PC Animation) files. Again the music, sound and animation files are all usable directly or via standard conversion programs on the Atari. o Clipart Goliath by Chestnut CD-ROM - contains over 11,000 images in PCX, TIF and WPG formats. Many are duplicates, but I think even 5,000 picure files is sufficient, for now. Great for Desktop Publishing. o Shareware Breakthrough for Windows, Desktop Publishing Collection - Over 1000 Encapsulated PostScript (EPS) files, over 200 Windows desktop (BMP) pictures, over 200 .GIF pictures. Copyright 1993. I've bought most of these at computer shows for $20.00 or less! All of the above are ISO 9660 or close variants with the exception of the ST Software Library which is in High Sierra format. These drivers should work fine with the new Walnut Creek Atari PD/Shareware CD-ROM too! Greg, Did the Walnut Creek CD-ROM come out on schedule ? Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 54 Mon Jan 03, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 18:03 EST I guess we finally now have CD-ROM support without having to use MultiSloth. Thanks!!!!!! ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 55 Mon Jan 03, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 22:09 EST Will this driver work on all St's equiped with SCSI interface. I have AdSCSI adapter on a Mega. John B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 56 Tue Jan 04, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EST Lee, Great news. I'm out looking for a CD-ROM drive now. Anyone care to comment on the triple-speed drives now out? Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 57 Tue Jan 04, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:19 EST Al, I'd like to comment more on the CD-ROM drivers, but my configuration is kinda unusual as I'm using an old Atari CDAR-504 which attaches to the ACSI chain and isn't a SCSI device at all. I hope that Roger can get on and discuss the SCSI side of it some more. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 58 Tue Jan 04, 1994 J.THOMAS12 [JT] at 13:22 EST Al, from all I've seen, the triples speed drives don't give any performance increase over the double speed drives, since there are few things written on CD ROM to take advantage of the triple speed. I have a Toshiba 3401 for my IBM clone and may be getting one for my Atari ST now. They are availabe in California for $335 and are almost as fast as my Quantum hard drive. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 59 Tue Jan 04, 1994 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 13:52 EST J.THOMAS12, $335 for a Toshiba 3401? Where? -- Albert ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 60 Tue Jan 04, 1994 J.THOMAS12 [JT] at 20:13 EST Albert, Newriver Peripherals has the Toshiba INTERNAL 3401 for $335 So. San Francisco 415-952-5897 Santa Clara 408-980-0669 Sunnyvale 408-738-8297 ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 61 Wed Jan 05, 1994 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 06:42 EST Al: The NEC MultiSpin 3X series seems to be getting all the favorable reviews. It was just released in November, offers triple speed, fast transfer and seek rates, a 256K buffer, and a host of asthetic features that have drawn favorable comment. The catch is the price. Currently around $550.00 for an external (3Xe). Subtract about $100.00 for an internal version (3Xi). You can get by for far less and considering there's currently no "front end" for Multimedia applications, speed may not be an issue. If that's the case, there are several slower CD ROMs out there for around $250.00 that would fit the bill. The real question here is whether or not there will be enough development of Atari front ends to warrant the price of the NEC model. Your guess is as good as mine. -- Dave St. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 62 Wed Jan 05, 1994 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 17:48 EST J.THOMAS12, Thanks for the update on the Tosiba 3401. D.STMARTIN, Multimedia CDs are not too important for me at the momemnt. Programming and Source code CD-ROMs are. But regardless the drive (NEC) has a standard interface (SCSI) so you can use it on any system. No loss ... I have used my old NEC-73 on IBM RS-6000, DG AViiON, SUN Sparc Station, PC, MAC, DEC workstation with a MIPS cpu without any problems. SCSI is a great interface and any SCSI device in general is a very good long term investment. It will be interesting to see how much all the quad speed CD-ROM drives will cost compared to the 2x versions. And of course I use the NEC-73 on my Atari Mega ST all the time. -- Albert ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 63 Wed Jan 05, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:08 EST Dave, Good point. If all I want to do is read the data off a CD, the slowest of slow drives would do fine. And that IS just what I want to do. I'll pick up one of the older ones; they're selling for $100 on up these days. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 64 Wed Jan 05, 1994 GREG at 23:54 EST L.W.BENJAMIN: We got a call from our distributor today that the "CD is in the mail". The Walnut Creek Atari CD is now being shipped and we will be sending all orders out the day we receive the discs from the presser which should be in the next three days. Very excited about getting these discs. It's All Relative ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 65 Thu Jan 06, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:32 EST Binary, I guess the trick here is to encourage the remaining Atari developers to support CD-ROM with our "dollar votes". Albert, Good points. A SCSI CD-ROM drive is an investment. Greg, Thanks for the update on the Walnut Creek CD-ROMs. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 66 Thu Jan 06, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 08:06 EST What is the Walnut Creek CD Rom? Walnut Creek sounds like the old apt complex in Raleigh, NC where I lived while in college. --Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 67 Thu Jan 06, 1994 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 17:46 EST Walnut Creek makes CD-ROM discs for many platforms including IBM, MAC, Amiga and ATari. They will make one of your very own for around $200 as well. You can send it in on 600 1.44 meg floppies too ... its one of the few places that will accept floppy disks in addition to tapes. -- Albert ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 68 Thu Jan 06, 1994 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 21:48 EST Koloth: > I guess the trick here is to encourage the remaining Atari developers >to support CD-ROM with our "dollar votes". Actually, the current installed (and declining) user base won't support development of many (any?) games or multimedia applications for the Atari ST/TT platform. I'm not 100% conversant in CD ROMs, but I think there is some type of semi-standard or universal front end that is either in the works or has been developed. I'm sure someone here would be familiar with it if it exists. As far as "hardwiring" an application I doubt we'll see commercial developers leaping into the fray. Given the index structure and heavy database style applications found on many CD ROMs it _might_ be feasible for adventurous programmer types to develop applications that run off floppy that will access the CD ROM indexes and data. The issue of proprietary information might rear its ugly head, but HEY, if you BOUGHT the CD ROM you should be able to access the information any way you see fit. Some thoughts anyway. -- Dave @ Binary Ink ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 69 Fri Jan 07, 1994 CBARRON at 03:11 EST Hm.. $ 500+ for HD floppies, $20+ to ship both ways and $200 for the master, EVERYONE will be doing that. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 70 Fri Jan 07, 1994 GREG at 03:12 EST There was a bit of misinformation in the CDINFO file posted in the libraries here. It's All Relative is not publishing the Walnut Creek CD. We are only bundling it with our Photo CD viewer and XFS CD rom drivers. The disc was put together by Rene Guimont (GEnie address R.GUIMONT). ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 71 Fri Jan 07, 1994 GREG at 03:15 EST CBARRON: It is actually cheaper to send a large hard drive full of files rather than floppies. On dollars per meg stored, hard drives are getting cheaper than floppies. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 72 Fri Jan 07, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:21 EST Binary, Well, we can dream anyway. I just hate to think of the weeks of frustration that lies ahead for all of us if we _have to_ learn memory management on a 'BM PC. There was once a roumor that the Codeheads were thinking about writing an Atari ST front end for Microsoft Bookshelf. I wonder how practical such a pairing would be ? Also many PC shops have gone to CD-ROM because it's cheaper than purchasing a double handfull of diskettes and the distribution costs are cheaper too. I could see something like PageStream or Calamus (sp?) being distributed on CD-ROM with some extra fonts and graphics. With places like Walnut Creek pressing diskettes relatively cheaply, we could see software on CD-ROM for the simple reason that it's cheaper to produce it on CD-ROM than on diskette. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 73 Fri Jan 07, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 08:15 EST Koloth, The MS Bookshelf thing was mentioned by John a while back. I thought that project got canned from what I remember of the message posted. ---Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 74 Fri Jan 07, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 12:24 EST Dave, I agree. There's a lot of talent out there in the Atari world, and we may be able to get that kind of front-end app. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 75 Fri Jan 07, 1994 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 14:47 EST Dave, The only real standard is in the filesystem for CD-ROMs the ISO-9660 and extensions like Rock Ridge. There is discussion of creating a standard search and retrevial engine but nothing more than that currently. Also the problem of large amount of money for the good search engines keeps everything in a proprietary world. No one wants to share any information because it might help a competitor increase the effectiveness of his/her search engine. The standardized one (being worked) on is based somewhat on the ANSI SQL-1/SQL-2 standard. Instead of just normal data types like in SQL you can access full text. That would be great to see implement. You can purchase for about $500 SQL libraries for C that can hook into also any B-Tree system. It also works with several dBASE compatible C libraries as well. If that can be expanded to full text than it should be relatively easy to do. Since the library comes with full C source code it should be very portable. It really depends on what type of data you are working with. If its just a simple database type of program one can put dBASE compatible files and indexes on a CD-ROM quite easily. If its full text than that is another issue completely. Carl, Even bigger a grin from me. Good catch. Most CD-ROM makers will not accept floppy disks at all. Most will accept tape in tar format. One could use something like Beckemeyer's SCSI-TAPE and backup using tar and be all set for much less. I don't know what ORA's tape back format will be but I assume it will be tar as well. Then just send the tape, block size for tar and you are set. -- Albert ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 76 Sat Jan 08, 1994 CBARRON at 02:08 EST Albert. Everyone has a tape unit. unix tar hm... not bad at least it is universal. Tar.ttp [one that writes scsi tapes] is on my HD. at this time. Nice to open those unix source files with... Hopefully 600Megs of tarred files on tape is cheaper then 600 HD floppies. At least the creation time is reported to be less than floppy copying... I don't have 600 megs ready to press. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 77 Sat Jan 08, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 10:17 EST Kevin, Absolutely! That's why I said it was a roumor. I guess I forgot to mention that it was now a _dead_ roumor. I was using it as an example of the type of project that has become more practical with the advent of the non-MTOS CD-ROM drivers. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 78 Sat Jan 08, 1994 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 11:41 EST > There was once a roumor that the Codeheads were < > thinking about writing an Atari ST front end for Microsoft < > Bookshelf. < I sure hope so. I would be first in line and right after that I would be out to get my CD-ROM. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 79 Sat Jan 08, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 12:01 EST That rumour has been squash by the CODEHEADS. ~~Brian..Written on Saturday 08 January 1994 at 12:58 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 80 Sat Jan 08, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 12:56 EST Hey, guys, I'd like to suggest that we put together a project in which 600 megs of shareware, Atari pix, TOS background texts, and other data could be put on CD-ROM, with all of us sharing the cost. I'll bet we could do it for $20 each, with enough folks in the pool. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 81 Sat Jan 08, 1994 GREG at 13:32 EST We just received the Gemini Atari CD Rom from Walnut Creek this morning. See file #31063 here for our Falcon Photo CD / Gemini disc special. The disc was compiled by Eric Tremblay and Rene Guimont. They did an outstanding job on it. Files are runnable from the CD. The files are also set up for BBS use in ZIP format. A 7 meg Photo Show demo is in the RELATIVE folder of the FALCON directory. For all ST /STe users who complained about being left out of our first offer, we will bundle a View II / Gemini CD rom from Walnut Creek package. With over 600 meg of files to run and view, View II is almost a requirement. The View II / Gemini CD will be $44.95, postpaid, from Randall Kopchak, It's All Relative, 2233 Keeven Lane, Florissant MO 63031. Leave EMAIL to GREG to reserve a copy of the disc and View II. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 82 Sat Jan 08, 1994 R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{] at 14:22 EST Koloth - > once a roumor that the Codeheads were...writing...(a)...front end < Yes, they admited to it, then squelched it as something not feasable at this time because the bookshelf itself is so out of date. They did make an offer to write a front end for about $10,000 I think it was, and several of us asked to be in on the action. Had it down to a mere $1,000 each before the thread snapped and some other topic got hot. Feel free to drop in on CAT 32, TOP 11 and ask about it. Perhaps a hundred GEnie requests would start the CD-ROM rolling. (:{ Grouch. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 83 Sat Jan 08, 1994 S.LYSTER [Stu Lyster] at 15:35 EST AF> Hey, guys, I'd like to suggest that we put together a project in AF> which 600 megs of shareware, Atari pix, TOS background texts, and AF> other data could be put on CD-ROM, with all of us sharing the AF> cost. I'll bet we could do it for $20 each, with enough folks AF> in the pool. Count me in for $20. I'll even make that Yankee dollars! If I sent $20Cdn, that would translate into about $15US. Now, if we can only convince Congress to replace the existing pics on the greenbacks with pictures of Her Majesty... I vote that Al Fasoldt collects the money. And the 600 Megs of files! I could send my 1 meg file of the decimal expansion of PI to 1.25 million digits. The ST value if PI, that is, which differs from the scientific value by have a dozen digits to 1.25 million places. But I digress. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 84 Sat Jan 08, 1994 GREG at 16:17 EST To put the new Gemini Atari CD in perspective: It holds the equivalent of .... 850 DS/DD floppy disks over 30 20 meg hard drives over 8,000 Atari DOS 2.0 8-bit disks Been playing with the disc today. Looks great. A directory of the FILES folder from the disk has been posted here as file #31564. Our Falcon and ST/STe specials are posted as file #31563. You'll need a HD to view the FILES directory as it is 1.6 meg in size after it is unZIPped. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 85 Sat Jan 08, 1994 J.THOMAS12 [JT] at 17:49 EST Al, do you know how much it would cost total to do a CD ROM? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 86 Sat Jan 08, 1994 G.NORTON [Falcon Systm] at 19:25 EST Greg, How much are you charging for that CD ROM? It is a PD/Shareware disk is it not? Graham @ Falcon Systems ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 87 Sat Jan 08, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 19:50 EST Al, Although I do not have a CD rom drive and dont' really think I will get one in the near future I would gladly donate $20.00 to such a project at the condition that you are head of said project. I trust you would get the project to completion and that it would be done properly. Are you sure you want to take such a project upon yourself? Is shareware a good idea? Makes it hard to throw it away if you don't want to use it, and makes it easy to keep using even if one has not paid their shareware payment. John B. p.s. Perhaps a new topic on this matter could be started and pledges in the amount of our choice could be posted there. Then Al could decide if he's up to taking on this noble task. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 88 Sat Jan 08, 1994 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 21:58 EST J.THOMAS12, If you are making a single CD-WO without any duplicates most places will charge you up to $200 for 650 megabytes of data. If you need to make duplicates you need to get a master done which costs a bit more. I've seen some ads that will make a master CD and 200 copies for only $1000. Which is not too bad a price. Carl, You can still need make a CD-ROM with only 100K on if you wish. Greg, Thanks for uploading the list of files on the Gemini CD. -- Albert ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 89 Sat Jan 08, 1994 GREG at 22:16 EST G.NORTON: The disc and Photo CD viewer is $39.95. The disc and View II is $44.95. Download file #31563 here for order information. The disc is public domain, shareware, and commercial demo programs for the ST, STe, TT, and Falcon. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 90 Sun Jan 09, 1994 CBARRON at 01:33 EST Albert - A 100 k cd rom = good copy protection, if you can make sure it is on the CD rom installed when running, or only runs from the CD rom. A bit expensive otherwise for less than 800K or 1.44Megs of data... Pirating of Cd roms, the next generation.... ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 91 Sun Jan 09, 1994 R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{] at 01:37 EST AL - Regarding your CD-ROM project. As Walnut Creek has just released the equivelent of 850 floppies on one CD ROM perhaps we should have a way of filtering what goes on this new disk. No point in releasing several "Hits of the 80's" where most of the programs are repeats. Sure, count me in for $20.00. But what will be on the ROM? (Hmmm, sounds like a song; "Home, home on the ROM. . ." Well, guess that goes to show my virtue has no reality. I would suspect the best use for such a ROM would be massive files such as sound and graphics produce. Mere programs would be lost in the data sea. Of course what we have all been asking for in this topic is access to the REAL CD- ROMS out there, the big bookshelfs, the mayo clinic, the refrence works and (of course) the games. Still, I'm always up for a nice collection of useful and astounding programs, demos, etc. Run with it, Al. Lets see how far you can take it! (:{ Grouch. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 92 Sun Jan 09, 1994 W.FAANES at 03:19 EST I have two questions : Does the ICD Link have a good CD ROM driver with it? Are there good SCSI address numbers to use or not with CD's? What is the max # of SCSI devices that a STe can support? What does the MINT CD driver that is special? Thanks, Bill BTW : A local San Jose firm is closing out on an early external NEC SCSI CD ROM drive for $149! It's no speed demon, but it meets MPC-I criteria. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 93 Sun Jan 09, 1994 GREG at 03:30 EST W.FAANES: The ICD forum here can update you on what they offer. The NEC drives are very good drives. We use them here. Be careful about the NEC-25 though as it is too slow for the XFS drivers and we don't suggest it. The NEC-38, NEC-55, NEC-74, and NEC-84 have all been tested by us and work quite well with the Atari line and the MultiTOS XFS drivers. So does the Hitachi 1850s and Toshiba 3401. They all support Photo CD too. Perhaps R.BURROWS will post a list of drives tested with his ExtenDOS here. It's All Relative ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 94 Sun Jan 09, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 03:32 EST It would be nice if Al put everything he ever wrote on Ataris on the disc.......revealed Secrets of Al Fasoldt..... :-) ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 95 Sun Jan 09, 1994 C.MASSEY3 [Charlie] at 05:33 EST Cypress Gardens ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 96 Sun Jan 09, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 08:20 EST I'm with John B. - can't see getting a CD ROM any time soon, but I'd be willing to front $20 for Al to start putting together a disk. I'd be more interested in fonts and reference works and graphics than programs, though, if I had a CD. gnox ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 97 Sun Jan 09, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 10:40 EST Joe, Sorry, but that was a years old roumor that died a long time ago. I should have said so when I posted. Of course we _could_ try to encourage them... Al, Yes, that sounds like a good idea. Perhaps an existing developer could be encouraged to take on such a project. I'd be glad to work over my 400+ diskettes to come up with inputs for such a project. Unfortunately for the entrepreneurs (sp?), but fortunately for the users, it sounds like Walnut Creek already did it. Maybe we could convince GEnie to put the ST libraries on a series of CD-ROMs. Grouch, I'll try to drop by Cat 32, top 11. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 98 Sun Jan 09, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 13:36 EST Stu, PI in the sky? JT, About $900, maybe, total. John B., I didn't say (yet ...) that I'd be in charge. To be totally honest, I'm probably not the right guy to be in charge of it, since this is all new to me; Greg, on the other hand, knows more in this area, as do others. But I'm willing to help in every way, including in a lot of ways that are probably easier for me to do than for others. We obviously need to discuss this at length, and get dmj and others involved if it is to succeed. BTW, the Walnut Creek CD-ROM may be what I am talking about, so our project might not even need to be launched. On the other hand, let's keep looking into this. First, I've got to get that Walnut Creek CD-ROM, and the rest of you do, too. Bill, make sure any CD-ROM drive you buy is Photo-CD compatible. Make sure! That's all that counts on an Atari. Speed doesn't matter, but the multi-session capability is crucial. Greg, Thanks for the note on which CD-ROM drives you have found to work OK. That's very helpful. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 99 Sun Jan 09, 1994 W.FAANES at 14:00 EST Al, I know about the importance of a Photo-CD 'ready' drive... I have a multimedia setup for my IBM system but I don't want to tear out the CD Rom to use on my ST system... I'm looking for a SCSI drive that I can hook up to use on my ST-run BBS... nothing else.. Thanks for the tip though! Greg, Thanks for the warning about the NEC 25... I knew it was slow (800ms) but I didn't think it was _too_ slow for the ST, I guess I was wrong... That is the drive they are selling for $150 new. Does anyone know of a place that is selling SCSI CD ROMS drives for very little $$? All the cheap CD Roms I see are the AT-BUS style.. The least expensive one I've seen is the Texel xx24 which is $269.. but I really don't need the 330MB/sec 280ms speed... Thanks! Bill ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 100 Sun Jan 09, 1994 GREG at 14:16 EST W.FANNES: Keep in mind that if you pick up a CD rom drive at Toad, ATY, or other better Atari dealers, you end up with a package that tailored for the Atari line. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 101 Sun Jan 09, 1994 GREG at 15:00 EST A.FASOLDT Quite a bit depends on the success of the Gemini CD by Walnut Creek. The disc has a lot going for it. Eric Tremblay and Rene Guimont spent over six months putting it together. It not a rush job. The files are well organized and in both runnable format for everyday use and in ZIP format with descriptions for BBS use too. If sales warrant, the Walnut Creek CD can be the first of many. We have a good idea of how many Falcons are out there with CD rom drives attached, within a couple of weeks, we'll have an estimate of how many CD roms are running on ST's andd TT's. With ExtenDOS by R.BURROWS and the fixed MetaDOS drivers, it is now possible to connect a CD rom drive to Atari computers besides the Falcon in a reliable manner. The list of drives I posted is not complete. These are the drives we have verified as working with the XFS drivers. I am told the Apple CD 300 also works with the Falcon too but have not yet verified results. G.FUHRMAN: For those interested in graphics, our Photo Show Pro package for the Falcon supports the Photo CD format used by Corel in their Photo CD series. There are now over 100 discs of images available in this series. Each disc has 100 images. That's 65,000 meg of graphics just in this one series by one company. All ready to go on the Falcon. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 102 Sun Jan 09, 1994 R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH] at 15:41 EST Does anyone know if the Mac CD ROM can be used with the Falcon? I can get a loaner from work if it is possible. I don't remember what model number it is off-hand. It is one of the earlier versions as I have had one on my desk for awhile now. Thanks, RandyH ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 103 Sun Jan 09, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 16:04 EST Bill, My latest Corporate Systems Center (Sunnyvale, CA) flyer lists the NEC CDR-74 external drive for $349, factory refurbished. They also list the CDR-73 for $249. I don't know the difference between the 73 and the 74. They both LOOK the same. but the 73 is without power supply and case. Anyone out there know the difference between the 73 and the 74? Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 12:59 PM Mountain Time Sunday, January 9, 1994 ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 104 Sun Jan 09, 1994 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 18:55 EST Mike, The NEC-73 is an older model ... the 74 is relatively new. The difference is mainly the speed (single vs double speed for the 74). The 83 and 84 are the bare drives and it sounds like someone gutted the 73 from its case and power supply. Someone mentioned that a bare Toshiba 3401 is going for $335 which is a better deal than a 73 without the power supply and case. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 105 Sun Jan 09, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 21:35 EST I may get a CD-ROM drive in the near future for my Falcon030. I have been asked about the feasibility of doing CD-ROM/Audio software for the Falcon. I'd be interested to help out on this project for $20 to $40. Could one of the CD-ROM driver programmers please contact me thru GEmail so we can xchg phone #'s. I need to check into a special project for CD-ROM and see if it is possible to do what we (PG.MUSIC) wants... --Kevin Houser ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 106 Sun Jan 09, 1994 R.SATTLER [Mr.X] at 21:43 EST Al, I would chip in $20 for the CD project! ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 107 Mon Jan 10, 1994 W.FAANES at 00:43 EST Thanks for the info Mike! Actually the company that I work used to get their SCSI drives at Corp. Systems years back... They were a small company back then... It sounds like they've grown! I'll have to swing by there after work and check out those CD ROMs. Thanks again! ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 108 Mon Jan 10, 1994 G.FUQUAY [GGF] at 00:55 EST >Message 98 Sun Jan 09, 1994 >A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 13:36 EST >make sure any CD-ROM drive you buy is Photo-CD compatible. Make sure! That's >all that counts on an Atari. Speed doesn't matter, but the multi-session >capability is crucial. > How do you tell if they are Photo-CD compatible? This wasn't addressed to me, I know. But I know less than nothing about CD Rom drives. But all this talk about the ExtenDos and the Walnut Creek CD Rom has piqued my interest. Thanks, Gary ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 109 Mon Jan 10, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:25 EST Flat, How boring! But I'd love to see all kinds of texts on such a CD. And, yes, I'll donate mine.... Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 110 Mon Jan 10, 1994 C.MASSEY3 [Charlie] at 05:13 EST I know this is probably not the right topic but it is related I think: I have over 5000 color slides I have taken over the years. I would love to get them on a phot CD but have y ou seen what they charge for this? "If I were a rich man" Bid-dy Bid-dy Bum.. Is there anyway that I can do this myself? Are there people who do this cheaper? I have an STe-4 meg. What gear do I need to make it work if it IS possible? Does Hillary kiss on the first date? Charlie ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 111 Mon Jan 10, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:45 EST Greg, > [graphics] All ready to go on the Falcon. Yes, I could see that in your announcement, and I hope it does well. I don't have a Falcon though, or color - I'm a TT High man, for the forseeable future. gnox ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 112 Mon Jan 10, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 11:18 EST Corporate Systems is huge now. I've bought from them twice. Very good service, very competitive prices. Gary, Drives that are Photo CD compatible will be advertized as such, or they will say "Multisession" somewhere. If the drive isn't billed as such, and you have not gotten a confirmation from another source that it is, then it's not. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 113 Mon Jan 10, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 18:15 EST Al, I have been thinking about your statement saying there are better suited people to head the project. I understand the technical implication of this but my thought was that you head the concept and material that should go on the CD. You see, I think that if you say it should be on the CD it will be good, and useful. I base this on the strenght that I have _never_ been disapointed in anything you have suggested for download. John B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 114 Mon Jan 10, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 19:06 EST Al, >how boring! Actually, you would be responsible to donate the interesting stuff. ;-) Charlie, apart from getting your slides on a photo disc there are two things you will need for sure. A CDrom drive, and a true color card. John B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 115 Mon Jan 10, 1994 W.ORTIZ [Will] at 22:01 EST Al, I'll hold the money. Seriously though, nice idea. Let's see if your idea catches on, on pooling our resources for that little project. Will W.ORTIZ ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 116 Tue Jan 11, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:49 EST John B., Thanks for the confidence. Let's keep this idea alive no matter what. :) Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 117 Tue Jan 11, 1994 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 23:57 EST Al, You should have enough for a new CD every month. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 118 Wed Jan 12, 1994 R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn] at 22:00 EST Hello everyone ! Sorry to leave a message and then disappear for a week ... I didn't expect the volume of messages! I will try to be on every couple of days from now on. Let me try to answer the questions that came up: 1. Drives tested: Panasonic CR501 Toshiba 3401 Atari CDAR-504 However, ExtenDOS uses absolutely standard, basic SCSI commands, and should work with _any_ SCSI-1 or SCSI-2 drive (the only special-case coding is in to support the Atari CDAR504 !) 2. Titles that work with ExtenDOS: The short answer is (unfortunately) none, if you mean things like PC games, multimedia encyclopedias etc. The reason is that these are actual applications, written for the Intel platform. However, many CDs are not applications (e.g, source code, GIFs, some electronic texts) and are therefore very usable on the Atari with ExtenDOS [as long as they're ISO9660/High Sierra which almost all are]. 3. Running from a BBS: not tested, but should be no problem. Multiple CD-ROMs are supported (current limit is 4 but that can easily be increased if you need it). 4. Driver should run without problems on an ST with the AdSCSI interface. Regards, Roger Burrows ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 119 Wed Jan 12, 1994 ICDINC at 22:32 EST Roger, You should take a look at the Pioneer 6 pack changer drive. (I forgot the model number.) It seems to be the standard for BBS's on the PC right now. - TOM - ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 120 Wed Jan 12, 1994 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 22:44 EST Tom, Its the Pioneer 604 or the older 600. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 121 Thu Jan 13, 1994 J.DINGA [Jolly Jon] at 02:25 EST I would sign up for that CD - I dont even have a drive _yet_ ;^) One person who might be _very_ helpful for this project is Mike Burkley of Suzy B Software. I know he has about a gig of Atari TOS orientated files, but I hesitate to ask him myself .... as we are trying to get him to our user group meeting next month. Any ideas on how we could bribe him for the files? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 122 Thu Jan 13, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:29 EST Roger, Glad to see you again! I hope that you are doing well. We all appreciate your response to our questions and look forward to your continued participation. Let's hope that sales of ExtenDOS more than offset your GEnie bill! Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 123 Thu Jan 13, 1994 FB [ST Librarian] at 20:53 EST Roger, Which computers/TOS versions has EnxtenDOS been tested on? Does it work on the Falcon? TT SCSI or does it need the ASCI port? So many questions, so little time! Fred Beckman ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 124 Fri Jan 14, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:31 EST FB, I tested ExtenDOS on a MegaSTE W/TOS 2.06 and an Atari CDAR-504 (an ACSI device). I know Roger has a TT with TOS 3.0 and he had a SCSI CD-ROM drive, probably one of the ones that he mentioned in his post. I'm pretty sure he also had someone else testing with a "classic" ST with an ICD host adapter and a SCSI CD-ROM drive hung off of it. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 125 Sat Jan 15, 1994 GREG at 00:42 EST Several users have asked via e-mail this week if the Gemini CD rom disc can be read on other machines. The Gemini disc can be read on any PC that has a CD rom drive installed. If you have friend with a CD rom drive or a PC at work with a CD, and it has a 3 1/2 inch drive, you can transfer files from the Gemini CD to the Atari via floppy. For use with Atari machines with TOS versions lower than 1.4, you will need to format the floppies on the PC in 720 K format. Your DOS manual has the switch for formatting in 720K format on the PC with your version of DOS. On the original version of TOS of early ST machines, you will need to make sure you DO NOT use the ESC key to update a window directory using PC formatted disks after switching disks as your machine will not register a media change with disks in PC format and your machine will lock up. To change disks, close the directory window and reopen it after a disk media switch on the ST. The Gemini disc can also be read on an Amiga or Mac, but transfers to an Atari machine are more difficult without special hardware. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 126 Sat Jan 15, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 08:43 EST Greg, The problem with media changes when using PC diskettes is because some PC disk formatters (or the bulk formatters) is that they don't put Unique serial numbers on the disks, but use the same serial number over and over. The problem with the ST is that it uses the serial number to track disk changes, at least the older versions of TOS did. The solution is to change the serial number on the PC diskette when you get it to the ST. There's a program in the libraries here on GEnie called UNEEKIT that I use for this purpose. Remember too that file transfers can be made via serial ports and a null-modem connection. This can probably be made to work with a PC, Amiga or MacIntosh. Heck, if it can read the CD-ROM it could be made to work even with a Sun Workstation. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 127 Sat Jan 15, 1994 B.KANTOR [Bruce] at 12:40 EST Roger, I don't know very much about CDROM disks; are Kodak Photo CDs written in ISO9660 format? Will ExtenDOS work with PhotoShow? Regards, Bruce ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 128 Sat Jan 15, 1994 GREG at 14:43 EST B.KANTOR: You can read a Kodak Photo CD with the XFS driver we include with Photo Show, View_PCD, or Photo Show Pro. ExtenDOS will not read a Photo CD disc. The author of ExtenDOS is looking into adding Photo CD support in the future. ExtenDOS will read the Gemini discs or any other standard CD rom disc. To read a Photo CD which is written in XA format, you will need the XFS driver right now. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 129 Sat Jan 15, 1994 GREG at 21:50 EST Make sure you download file #31617 in the libraries here for CD rom information from Toad. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 130 Sun Jan 16, 1994 GREG at 00:45 EST L.W.BENJAMIN called it to my attention that the Gemini CD is loaded with 5 meg of Portfolio files too. I don't have a Portfolio and kind of missed mention of the Atari Portfolio files in my previous posts on the Gemini CD by Walnut Creek. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 131 Sun Jan 16, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 09:16 EST Greg, S.DEITZ and I have found what may be a problem for non-MultiTOS users on the GEMini CD-ROM. The /FILES/GRAPHICS/IMG directory contains a folder with no name and the .../IMG directory also contains 494 entries. Either or both of these seem to give TOS a problem. At least it did with my TOS 2.06 and ExtenDOS. I'll check it out with MultiTOS and ExtenDOS and let you (and Roger Burrows) know what I find out. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 132 Sun Jan 16, 1994 GREG at 10:29 EST L.W.BENJAMIN: MultiTOS's XSF driver handles the NULL folder in the GRAPHICS\IMG\ folder without problems. It also handles the 494 files in one folder in the same directory. It looks like a structure problem in the directory. Avoid opening the NULL folder. Make sure you issue a bug report to R.BURROWS on your problem using ExtenDOS. When using a CD that can have thousands of files and folders, you are really pushing a file system to the limit. It can be very difficult to anticipate every problem possible. How does ExtenDOS handle the Folders limitations of the earlier versions of TOS? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 133 Sun Jan 16, 1994 B.KANTOR [Bruce] at 11:10 EST Oh well, I guess I won't be jumping into this CD-ROM thing right now then. I'll wait for the XA version of ExtenDOS. I don't want to run MINT; I use Geneva, and right now it provides me with all the multitasking capabilities I need. Pre-emptive multitaksing is nice but not at the performamance penalties that MultiTOS/MINT impose (let alone the incompatabilities). Regards, Bruce ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 134 Mon Jan 17, 1994 R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn] at 00:26 EST Fred Beckman, What Lee Benjamin said. ExtenDOS has been tested on the ST, the STe and the TT. I do not know if it works now on the Falcon, but that is my next objective. On the TT it can run through the SCSI or ACSI port. You need an AdSCSI or equivalent to run through the ACSI port on any system (unless you have the Atari CDAR-504 which can run directly off the ACSI). GREG I'll be taking a look at that particular CD-ROM when it arrives (shortly I hope!) ExtenDOS itself should not have problems with folder limitations since it completely replaces GEMDOS for all CD-ROM access, although of course if you copied whole trees of directories from a CD-ROM to a hard drive, you could run across the problem. Regards, Roger Burrows ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 135 Mon Jan 17, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:38 EST Greg, I'll avoid the /files/graphics/img folder for now. I'm using MetaDOS 2.0 with ExtenDOS and R.BURROWS says that he _finally_ got fed up with some of the known problems in MetaDOS and is now shipping ExtenDOS as a completely stand-alone product. The newer driver may already fix this problem. We'll know as soon as he gets the GEMini CD-ROM. > How does ExtenDOS handle the Folders limitations of the > earlier versions of TOS? I actually don't know. Since I'm running the ICD hard disk drivers and it "patches" the OS for the folders problem, I'd assumed that it was handling it. I haven't seen that problem in so long that I've forgotten what the symptoms are. Because of the way the GEMini disc is set up, i.e. with many folders, I did recently up my ICD folder limit to 400, since it didn't take much more memory to do this. Call it cheap insurance. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 136 Tue Jan 18, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:25 EST Roger, I realize you know this, but those who are monitoring this fascinating development may not realize that current versions of TOS don't have a limit on nested folders. I tested TOS 3.06 out to 99 levels before I gave up. Likewise, ICD's fix handles the NUMBER of folders just fine. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 137 Tue Jan 18, 1994 GREG at 23:28 EST TO ALL: Be sure to join us for a "CD Solutions" RTC at 10:00 p.m. EST on Monday, January 24. We will be there along with Roger Burrows of ExtenDOS, and Toad with hardware solutions. Find out what your missing by not having a CD rom connected to your machine. It's All Relative ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 138 Wed Jan 19, 1994 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 02:16 EST Al, I have CD's for my PC that have demo programs from a variety of differnt publishers. Maybe some of the Atari developers could chip in a few bucks a piece to help things. Genie could put up all of its old message files in a searchable form to provide an information database of the different topics it covers. With their help and donations from others here, the project could be feasable... It could provide the reason people need to install CD drives in their machines. Steve Blackburn P.S. Just a weird thought, what if you installed PC-Ditto on every CD as an interface to PC compatible programs? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 139 Wed Jan 19, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 02:51 EST Steve, I would be slooooooow. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 140 Wed Jan 19, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:43 EST Stevem Just a wierd answer: If you installed pc-ditto on the CDs, you'd spend all day just getting the directories.... pcd is SLOW! Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 141 Wed Jan 19, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 09:06 EST Al, Steve, That should've read "It would be slooooow." Not, "I would be ..." [8^)-<-< --Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 142 Wed Jan 19, 1994 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 11:33 EST Greg, That CD solutions conference should be very good. Keep up the good work. -- Albert ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 143 Wed Jan 19, 1994 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 15:40 EST Steve, >It could provide the reason people need to install CD drives in their >machines. Now, there you've hit the nail on the head! Another instance where software sells the hardware! John ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 144 Thu Jan 20, 1994 GREG at 23:05 EST S.BLACKBURN: The Walnut Creek Gemini CD has quite a few demo programs on it. There is another CD in the works too, due out about March. We just sent the publisher a copy of the Gemini CD so they can avoid as much duplication as possible. A.FASOLDT: If anyone is thinking about getting a CD rom drive, the CD solutions RTC at 10:00 p.m. Monday, January 24, on GEnie can't be beat. We will have representatives of both hardware and software vendors available to answer your questions first hand. So far It's All Relative, ExtenDOS, Toad, and DMJ Software have confirmed their attendance and a couple of other vendors have said that they may also attend. We're really looking forward to Monday! ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 145 Fri Jan 21, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 13:08 EST Thanks, Greg. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 146 Fri Jan 21, 1994 G.FUQUAY [GGF] at 19:31 EST Is there a chance that this RTC will be archived and made available for download? I would be interested in it, but I won't be able to attend. Thanks, Gary ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 147 Fri Jan 21, 1994 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 20:03 EST As a general policy, I believe that all formal Roundtable conferences are saved and archived and made available for downloading in the Atari libraries here. Just give the Sysop hosting the RTC a day to get it archived and placed out. Lou is very concientious and prompt doing this and it is he that is hosting the Monday night RTC. I hope this helps. Nathan ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 148 Fri Jan 21, 1994 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 20:18 EST Gary, the RTC on Jan. 24 will be archived and available later in the week. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 149 Sun Jan 23, 1994 G.FUQUAY [GGF] at 00:25 EST Lou, Thanks for the info. The reason I posted that message was because I am a fairly recent user of GEnie, and I didn't know what the procedure for the RTCs is. I knew that the BB topics were archived and put in the libraries, but wasn't sure of the RTCs. Thanks, Gary ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 150 Sun Jan 23, 1994 R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH] at 00:49 EST I asked this a few days ago, but didn't get any response so I will try again, with a bit more detail. I brought home an Apple CD ROM drive and hooked it up to my MegaST and attempted to install MetaDOS. It appeared that the drives installed, but I was not able to access the drive(s). I also tried a couple of those programs that allow you to play audio CDs and the best they would do is eject the disk. When I run the ICD program to report on the SCSI ids it tells me there is a SONY CDU-8002 out there. Is this drive not compatible with MetaDOS or am I doing something wrong. What about the other drivers available for CD ROMs? Thanks, RandyH ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 151 Sun Jan 23, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 09:12 EST Randy H., What version of MetaDOS are you using ? What are the .BOS and .DOS files you're using and what version are they ? I suspect the .BOS (physical driver) isn't compatible with the Sony drive as it was written for something else. Roger Burrows' ExtenDOS may be compatible, but I doubt it has been tested with the specific drive that you have. Maybe you could work out something with him (R.BURROWS1). For $20 you could find out and he might even let you return it if it doesn't work. ExtenDOS is available immediately at only $19.95 (including shipping & handling) from: Anodyne Software 6 Cobbler Court Ottawa Ontario K1V 0B8 CANADA. Please make your payment by cheque or money order, in US$ for shipping to the U.S.A., in Canadian$ for shipping within Canada. Ontario residents please add 8% sales tax. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 152 Sun Jan 23, 1994 GREG at 15:16 EST RANDY.H: The December issue of ST Review has an article on connecting an Apple CD 300 to an Atari computer. A user in Australia reported success with the Apple CD 300 and the MultiTOS XFS driver on the Falcon. We've never tried one ourselves. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 153 Sun Jan 23, 1994 R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH] at 15:31 EST Koloth, thanks for the info on ExtenDOS. I'll get in touch with Roger and see what I can find out. Don't know the exact versions, but I am using the CDARGEN.BOS and ISO9660F.DOS files that came with MetaDOS2 here in the library. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 154 Sun Jan 23, 1994 GREG at 16:07 EST To ALL: Do not copy files directly from a CD to your hard disc using the Atari XFS MultiTOS CD rom driver. Copy files to a ram disk or floppy disk and then transfer to your hard disk. Do not put untested and unknown ACC files on your C: drive for testing. Use the "Load ACC" feature of testing accessory programs with MultiTOS. We got an e-mail from a user who locked himself out of his hard disk with an errant accessory program he was testing. The early release of the Atari hard disk driver on the Falcon ran into problems with a full disk overwriting vital hard drive information. Does anyone know what the problem version and fixed version is? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 155 Sun Jan 23, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 22:17 EST Greg, Good advice, and there are two more things that Atarians can do: - Run DAs from Geneva on the fly. - Run DAs from MultiDesk on the fly. Running untested desk accessories out of the root of C: is dumb, just as you have pointed out. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 156 Sun Jan 23, 1994 GREG at 22:38 EST I just picked up "Graphics Animation Festival" today. It contains several hundred meg of quality FLI animations that run very well on the Falcon 030. In fact the FLI files play back better under MultiTOS than they do under Windows on my PC. If you have a Falcon and a CD rom player, check this disc out. We used the ALOE Frederik Postcardware player to view the animations. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 157 Sun Jan 23, 1994 S.FARWIG [STAN] at 23:27 EST >Atari-ST RoundTable >Category 4, Topic 19 >Message 154 Sun Jan 23, 1994 >GREG at 16:07 EST > >To ALL: > >Do not copy files directly from a CD to your hard disc using the Atari XFS >MultiTOS CD rom driver. Copy files to a ram disk or floppy disk and then >transfer to your hard disk. Greg: I've copied many a GIF file from my CD directly to my hard drive using the XFS driver without any problems. What led you to offer this advice? My main reason for doing this is the XFS driver is the only one I know that is available for the Falcon and SpeedofLight presents display problems under MultiTOS (and the only use I have for MultiTos is using The CD-ROM drive ) so the only way to have carefree viewing is have the files on the HD. Personally, I think the future of CD_ROM on Atari will remain very limited, at least for the uses I would like, and depends on COMPO bringing out a driver for Falcon Speed as well as SVGA. It's an exercise in masochism to paw through the CDs available for the IBM at a Price Club. . Stan ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 158 Mon Jan 24, 1994 GREG at 01:07 EST STAN: We've had a user report of problems copying files from a CD to a HD. I myself do it all the time, but there appears to be a latent problem that most likely is caused by a combination of CD drive, HD driver, or other factors. Rather be safe than sorry. Pick up the "PC Graphics Animation Festival" the next time you are out. Really has a nice group of FLI animations on it that run very well on the Falcon. The Nautilus monthly CD magazine is another good source of sounds, graphics, and animations for the Falcon. Don't forget that all 100 of the Corel Photo CD theme disks are Falcon ready if you have Photo Show Pro or View_PCD. :-> ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 159 Mon Jan 24, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 18:12 EST RandyH, Good. Roger should be helpful, but he doesn't get on every day and may take a little while to respond. Why not drop in on the RTC tonight at 10:00 P.M. and see what happens! Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 160 Mon Jan 24, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 19:24 EST Of course if you have a TOS version like 2.06 or newer, you can just press the control key to bypass the ACC and AUTO folder stuff. Then disable the offending acc/prg. --Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 161 Mon Jan 24, 1994 GREG at 20:02 EST PG.MUSIC: Your last message is an example of the problem with lots of software. Most people don't know that. If you do some tweaks to MultiTOS to tailor it to your system, it is really one heck of a lot better than it is right out of the box. Most users don't know about "hold down left shift" to boot without MultiTOS or how to figure out the best setting for SLICES= in the configuration file or how to run a TOS program without MultiTOS creating a Window for it. What MultiTOS needs is an independent book on the subject similar to to the 1,000's available to Window's users. I think that Scott Sander's latest book shows that a well written book for the Atari system can sell. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 162 Mon Jan 24, 1994 C.LABELLE [Tintin] at 22:02 EST Greg, I know AHDI 6.05c and HDX 5.03c are the versions of the hard drive utilities to fix the problem on the Falcon. I am checking out the NEX 3xp. I went today to test it but the store need to order SCSI-2 to SCSI-2 cables. I'll check again in 2-3 days. If it works with the Atari CD, does it mean it will work with PhotoCD as well, at least single-session? Tintin ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 163 Mon Jan 24, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 22:55 EST I was wondering if anyone knew anything about the Sony (?) 2.5" CD-ROM type drives. I believe they were CD-ROM but not sure. I was wondering if they were Read Only or R/W? What type of interface? How much disk space? Is there support on the Ataris for this type of drive?, etc., etc. Thanks. With a Boot Manager, you don't get locked out of your system. At least I never have. :-) ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 164 Tue Jan 25, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 07:54 EST Greg, I'm sure I read that about the control key (not just MTOS, but I know it works for 2.06 on up) while RTFM. :) My gripe is people who complain about a piece of software, and it turns out that they had some other software causing the whole problem (due to a damaged file) in their auto folder. They don't bother disabling the auto folder prg's entirely even when TOLD to do so. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 165 Tue Jan 25, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:37 EST Wayne, You must be talking about the Sony mini disc drives. These MD drives are R/W, and use data compression for audio recording in a very audio-specific manner (which won't work with computer data). As audio drives, they store 72 minutes of sound. Recordable discs are available in 60-minute and 72-minute versions. I have no information on their use as computer R/W drives, and as far as I know this is not currently possible. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 166 Tue Jan 25, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 18:11 EST Greg, Yes, on the other hand the manual shipped with MultiTOS should have contained a lot of that information instead of us having to drag it out of old MiNT documentation. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 167 Tue Jan 25, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 19:50 EST Al, Thanks. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 168 Tue Jan 25, 1994 S.FARWIG [STAN] at 21:47 EST Greg: Thanks for the reply. It might be helpful if the user who reported the problem listed his\her set-up. My own is the TOSHIBA XM-3401B & ICD, of course. And thanks for the info on applications and Nautilus. While I have 3 CD's of GIFs and JPEG files (about 12,000 pics of a kind not welcomed on a family service such as GEnie), graphics weren't my main reason for getting a CD. A long-time dream is of having the unabridged Oxford Dictionary on CD. I found out a few weeks ago it is out for IBM & MAC, but after learning the price, $950, dreaming of it is all I can afford. But I saw a CD street atlas of EVERY (emphasis by the publisher) city and town in the US for the IBM. That would nice to have. And, for IBM, a three volume reference work on movies and VCR tapes that includes scenes from the films. That would be nice to have. And, for the MAC, an excellent Musical Instruments of the World with beautiful graphics and first rate sound samples of all the instruments...the viola really sounded like a viola, the sitar a sitar. That would be fun to have. And so on. Well, who knows...maybe titles like this will come out for the Jaguar, since the Atari Corp. may finally take a serious interest in CD-ROM for this product. The Jaguar may well save Atari for the Tramiels and stockholders, but I fear it has eviserated the computer division. So I'm pinning my hopes on COMPO and Falcon Speed. Stan ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 169 Wed Jan 26, 1994 C.LABELLE [Tintin] at 22:53 EST Do I need to purchase a terminator for a CD-ROM drive? Those SCSI-2 terminators are $55. I have a Falcon. The NEC drives I am looking at buying have SCSI-2 connectors. Thanks, Tintin ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 170 Wed Jan 26, 1994 ICDINC [Tom] at 23:10 EST Tintin, Which NEC drive are you looking at? The NEC drive that I bought about 4 months ago has a standard SCSI centronics 50 connector. I think it is a model 38. It's the double speed unit not the tripple. I also has a switch in the back to enable or disable termination. The terminator is built in. I would guess that all the newer models have that as well. - TOM - ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 171 Thu Jan 27, 1994 J.THOMAS12 [JT] at 01:29 EST Tom, some don't. My Toshiba 3401 CD ROM drive came with the terminators installed, and my WangTek Tape backup unit had them in a little package in the box. Terminators are normally supplied. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 172 Thu Jan 27, 1994 C.LABELLE [Tintin] at 20:44 EST Tom, I'm looking at the NEC 3x series. The 3xe has SCSI-2 connectors, exactly like the one on the Falcon. The store has the cable, and is receiving the 3xp tomorrow. I will bring and try my Falcon on it. I will look for the termination switch. Tintin ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 173 Thu Jan 27, 1994 GREG at 23:17 EST Check out CAT 30, TOP 9, for another new CD by It's All Relative. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 174 Fri Jan 28, 1994 C.LABELLE [Tintin] at 20:49 EST I went and tried the NEC 3xp on the Falcon. I could not get it to work properly. I was using XFS version 0.6. Are there other versions available? The driver recognized the drive, and the initialization period was short. The problems started when I tried to open a directory of the drive. The bee would appear, while the drive said "Busy" for about 30 seconds, then I got the mouse control back but no directory. After many tries, I managed to get a directory, even 2 or 3 deep in a row. It looked like it was working normally. Then the same problem occured again. In one hour of testing, I got a directory just a few more times, and could not go further. I found it strange that it worked once and stopped, then didn't work the next time I reboot, even with the exact same configuration. I tried all the possible configurations of SCSI-1/SCSI-2, Termination On/Off, Multispin On/Off. What should I do? Forget about it and buy a double-speed? ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 175 Sat Jan 29, 1994 R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH] at 00:55 EST Where can one find the so called 'CD-ROM driver' that is used with MinT? I have MetaDOS which doesn't seem to require the use of MinT, but which I also can't get to work. Is this MinT drive available in the libraries? Does it work better than MetaDOS? Thanks, RandyH ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 176 Sat Jan 29, 1994 GREG at 08:25 EST Randy.H The latest version of the XFS CD rom driver is shipped with Photo Show, Photo Show Pro, or View_PCD. Photo Show or Photo Show Pro is available at all better Atari dealers. View_PCD is available only by direct mail to us as part of our View_PCD / Gemini CD package for $39.99. Write Randall Kopchak, 2233 Keeven Lane, Florissant MO 63031 USA. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 177 Sat Jan 29, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 09:40 EST RandyH, The MetaDOS CD-ROM driver system is being replaced by a third party product called ExtenDOS. There's some information on it in the libraries in file 31774, EXTENDOS.TXT. It costs around $20. It doesn't require MultiTOS, but will work with it. The MultiTOS Extensible File System (XFS) driver is sold with CD-ROM applications like It's All Relative's Photo-CD viewer/manipulator. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 178 Sat Jan 29, 1994 M.ERSOFF at 10:53 EST TO: Anodyne Software 6 Cobbler Court Ottawa Ontario K1V 0B8 CANADA. or Anyone who knows the answer to the following questions, >Anodyne Software announces: > > ExtenDOS: CD Extensions for TOS > ------------------------------- > >Would you like to join the CD-ROM revolution but: > . couldn't get Atari's MetaDOS(tm) package to work properly > . don't want the complication and overhead of running MultiTOS(tm) > just to get CD-ROM support ? I am writing this in reference to the Extend DOS program for CD ROM. I saw the announcement above here on GEnie and I am _EXTREMELY_ interested in getting my Mega ST4 to communicate with a CD-ROM drive. At this point all I want to do is use Clipart and Post Script font CDs with my Atari. There are sooooo many clip art and font CDs available from various sources (just look in any computer magazine!!) Here is my situation/question: I currently have an Atari Mega ST4 with 1-Syquest drive and 1-50 meg hard drive. I also have an ICD link that I use with a second Syquest drive that I have at work (yes, I actually have an ST at work). I also use the multi-tasking program from Gribnif Software called Geneva (I wouldn't boot-up withoout it!). I recently spoke with an man named Howard at ICD concerning the ability to use the ICD Link with a SCSI CD-ROM drive. Howard (a _VERY_ helpful person) said that ICD has a CD-ROM driver (included on the disk that comes with the ICD Link) but it needs Mint to run. My problem is that, to my knowlegde, Geneva will not work with Mint. So here is the $64,000 question: Does the ExtedDOS CD-ROM driver need Mint (or another additional programs)? _AND_ does the ExtendDOS CD-ROM driver work with Geneva? If anyone has a similar set-up to mine please feel free to comment. To sum it up, all I want is to seemlessly interface a CD-ROM drive to my Atari ST to use CD-ROMs in the same way I use my hard drives - And I want it to work with Geneva and without MINT. (I don't know if this is asking too much - but hey, if I don't ask I'll never know ) Thanks ....... Mayer ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 179 Sat Jan 29, 1994 R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH] at 14:18 EST Mayer, my setup is very similar to yours. I have a MegaST with a 130 Meg drive and Syquest 44 off an AdSCSI. The drives are mounted in a Toadfile case with an external SCSI connector on the back. Connected to this I have an AppleCD SC drive which I can't seem to get to work. I have opened the case and the drive inside is labeled a Sony CDU-541-22. When queried with the ICD utilities, it says Sony CDU-8002. When I boot up, it reports the Maxtor and Syquest drives at ID 0 and 1, but doesn't say anything about the Sony. I have also tried a couple of programs that allow you to play audio CDs with the CD- ROM drive, but can't get them to work either. One specifically has an option for the CDU541 drive and when I select the stop button the drive light comes on for a second. When I select eject it does eject the disk. However, when I select play, nothing happens. I also installed MetaDOS and when I boot up it says that it has installed, but when I try to open drive Q or R it immediatly says the drive is not responding. I would be willing to invest in ExtenDOS if I had a better idea that this drive would work. It seems that it should work, but I just can't figure out what I might be doing wrong. Anyone have any ideas/suggestions? Thanks, Randy ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 180 Sat Jan 29, 1994 R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn] at 18:33 EST M.ERSOFF Mayer, To answer your questions: 1. ExtenDOS works with plain old TOS ... no other code needed. 2. I don't know if it works with Geneva, since I don't have Geneva. I welcome any info here. R.HOEKSTRA I have a local user with a Sony CDU541 that is working just fine on an ST, using ExtenDOS. I don't know if it's a -22 (whatever that means). I assume you know the drive works by testing it on another system! (well, just checking you know). If you can get MetaDOS and its drivers to install, you're probably close to getting the whole thing working. Are you sure that MetaDOS's CONFIG.SYS is set up with the correct addresses ? If not, mail it to me and I can comment. Also, which version of MetaDOS are you using, and what are the driver versions ? Which audio-CD player programs have you used ? When you say 'nothing happens when I select play', I assume this means the CD doesn't even spin. Regards, Roger Burrows ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 181 Sat Jan 29, 1994 M.POCHE [Mick] at 20:12 EST Hey Lou, What ever happened to the CD-ROM RTC transcript? I know a couple of people who couldn't attend it (like me for example) who would like to read it. - Mick ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 182 Sat Jan 29, 1994 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 22:06 EST Mick, the CD_ROM.ARC file has been released. It is full of great information. Please take a look at it if you missed the RTC. Thanks for your interest. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 183 Sat Jan 29, 1994 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 23:31 EST Mick, the CD-ROM RTC archive file was released in the Library just tonight. Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 184 Sun Jan 30, 1994 GREG at 03:40 EST For everyone looking for the CD-ROM RTC text, it's available as file #31796 in the libraries here. ST.LOU: Thanks for all your help in putting the RTC together. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 185 Sun Jan 30, 1994 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 10:36 EST GREG, my pleasure. Your RTC was one of the most informative I have ever attended. The transcript is a gold mine of information. It is one of the few that I have printed out for sharing with others and for quick reference. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 186 Sun Jan 30, 1994 R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH] at 22:46 EST Roger (or anyone), I am using MetaDOS 2.0 with the CDARGEN.BOS, HSMAY86.DOS, and ISO9660F.DOS in the BOOT directory of the AUTO folder. The CONFIG.SYS has the following three lines plus various comments: *BOS, C:\AUTO\BOOT\CDARGEN.BOS, Y:2 *DOS, C:\AUTO\BOOT\HSMAY86.DOS, Q:Y *DOS, C:\AUTO\BOOT\ISO9660F.DOS, R:Y It has been a few months, but the drive did work fine when hooked up to a Mac at work. One thing I was wondering, there was a connector block across a pair of pins in the back marked parity. I remember some discussion about parity on hard drives awhile back, so I removed it just to see what happened. After this the drive seemed to respond a bit more to the audio player programs, but still did not work completely. Those programs were CDPLAYER.PRG and AUD_CD20.ACC. It just occurred to me that the cable I just bought to try this out may be bad. I tried to check the pins with an ohm meter and found a number of pins not connected. Looking in the my Falcon book I see this may be okay, except that some of the pins that show something on them in the Falcon book are not connected in my cable. Does anyone know which pins are critical? Most that are not connected are labeled GND in the book, but at least one is +5V. Should I try another cable? Also wondering if the CD-ROM drive sends some info to the computer when a disk is inserted or if the drive itself just checks the type of disk it is and then only responds to the appropriate commands. In other words, how it knows when there is an audio disk versus an ISO9660 format disk versus some other format. Other than audio, I just have one CD data disk and I'm not sure what format it is. Thanks for all the help guys and hopefully I can get this figured out eventually. RandyH ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 187 Tue Feb 01, 1994 L.CHANDLER [LINDA] at 02:00 EST Three cheers on the CD Rom RTC. The transcript was great and very informative. Does anyone know if there is a CDRom disk of symbols and fonts for Cadd programs. Now that would be useful. Linda. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 188 Tue Feb 01, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 18:36 EST Mayer, The ExtenDOS CD-ROM driver doesn't need MiNT, but will even work with it as I've used it under MultiTOS. I don't have Geneva, but I don't know any reason why it wouldn't work. I've had it installed for a while now. Hopefully in a future issue of ST Informer you'll see an article on some of the clipart, etc. CD-ROMs that Steve Deitz and I have used with our STs and CD-ROMs. Randy, Unfortunately not all SCSI drives seem to use _exactly_ the same command set. You may be able to work out something with Roger so that you could return the software (destroying all copies!) if it didn't work with your drive. There are a lot of different CD-ROM drives out there and I know Roger wasn't able to test ExtenDOS with very many of them. He has been most helpful and will try to support whatever you've got. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 189 Wed Feb 02, 1994 R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn] at 00:14 EST RandyH, Some thoughts: 1. Are you sure your CD-ROM is High Sierra or ISO 9660 ? You mentioned testingthe drive on a Mac at work: Macs use HPFS file systems which _cannot_ be recognised by MetaDOS (or ExtenDOS for that matter). 2. When you try to read the disk is when you discover it's audio or CDROM. If you try to play a CDROM (on a CDROM drive), you should just get some kind of error which a player program may or may not report. LINDA, Don't know if there's anything specifically for CADD ... there are many font disks about. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 190 Sun Feb 06, 1994 R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn] at 23:16 EST The latest release of ExtenDOS, version 1.1, is now available from: Anodyne Software 6 Cobbler Court Ottawa Ontario K1V 0B8 Canada. FALCON030 support ExtenDOS now supports the Falcon030 in addition to the ST, STe, Mega, and TT030. I've also had the opportunity to test ExtenDOS on the NEC 74 drive (external version of the NEC 84), and am happy to say it works without problems. The list of drives that ExtenDOS is known to work with is: Atari CDAR-504 Panasonic (Matsushita) CR-501 NEC 74/84 Sony CDU-541 Toshiba 3401 It is also expected to work with any SCSI-1 or SCSI-2 compatible drive. MultiTOS experience Although ExtenDOS is not designed to run under MultiTOS, it will in fact run, as long as memory protection is turned off. At this time, the only drawback to running ExtenDOS under MultiTOS is that it is impossible to run programs directly from a CD-ROM. If you need that facility, you'll have to run ExtenDOS without MultiTOS, or MultiTOS with the XFS driver (or wait until I figure out how to fix it!). Performance I've been doing some timing comparisons in the different environments, and I'll be posting the results to a library file. All timings to date show TOS+ExtenDOS to be 2 to 3 times faster than MultiTOS+XFS driver. Some tests of ExtenDOS under MultiTOS seem to indicate that a lot of the performance difference is due to the XFS driver, rather than MultiTOS, although I haven't done extensive testing, and the way MultiTOS is set up can obviously affect performance. ExtenDOS vs MetaDOS Finally, if you have MetaDOS running and you're wondering if there is any reason to switch to ExtenDOS, the new Walnut Creek Atari CD-ROM provides a very good reason: the capability of running programs directly from CD-ROM. As mentioned above, this is fully supported by ExtenDOS; there are several problems with the MetaDOS implementation. Roger Burrows, Anodyne Software P.S. ExtenDOS is still only $19.95 _including_ shipping & handling (US$ for US delivery, Cdn$ for Canadian delivery, Ontario residents please add 8% PST). ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 191 Mon Feb 07, 1994 J.DINGA [Jolly Jon] at 01:56 EST Roger, not to be picky, but to clarify, is that the Tosiba 3401b you have tested? Just want to be sure before my plastic gets burned! ..... my cheque will be in your hands soon after! ;^) ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 192 Mon Feb 07, 1994 S.DEITZ at 05:04 EST Roger, Falcon compatibility! Come here... smooch! Now where's my checkbook? ----STEVE---- ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 193 Mon Feb 07, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:51 EST Steve, Aw, c'mon, that was _embarrassing_. And to think I shared a "by" line with you. Roger, The Falcon030 support _is_ good news. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 194 Mon Feb 07, 1994 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 09:19 EST I have the same question about the Toshiba 3401e ;-). I assume that all the various Toshiba 3401's are compatible. I already sent in my cheque! Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 195 Tue Feb 08, 1994 S.DEITZ at 05:41 EST Lee, Sorry, I excite easily before my 2nd cup of coffee. You're not jealous, are you ? ----STEVE---- ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 196 Wed Feb 09, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 18:25 EST Steve, That's why I use a 32oz Coffee mug in the morning. Oh yeah. it sits right next to my CD-ROMs every morning. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 197 Thu Feb 10, 1994 GREG at 01:48 EST Watch next week for another CD offer from It's All Relative for use with all Atari computers. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 198 Thu Feb 10, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 06:27 EST Greg, You've got us salivating already ! Looking forward to your announcement. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 199 Thu Feb 10, 1994 R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn] at 20:57 EST Yes, folks, I tested the Toshiba 3401 (well actually JKUEHN kindly betatested on the 3401 for me, but I'm now the proud owner of one). The 3401B & 3401E are the same drive, the B's internal, the E's external. Nice drive, I'm planning to use a few more of its features ;-) Roger @ Anodyne ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 200 Fri Feb 11, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 18:14 EST There is an add in a local paper announcing the opening of a new wholesale "business" store. They are advertizing a few great deals good for one day only. A lot of half price stuff. There is a Sony CD-ROM advertized at 99.00 (75.00 U.S.) the model number is CDU-31-A, it says it is CD-photo compatible. Is this worth picking up? In other words, will it work with EXtendos. ? John B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 201 Fri Feb 11, 1994 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 20:27 EST Roger, For the Toshiba 3401 ... write a program that captures the audio over the SCSI bus. -- Albert ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 202 Sat Feb 12, 1994 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 09:57 EST That price is too cheap, John. It cannot be one of the current models that work with all the various Photo CD stuff I'd think. I just had occassion to buy a new Toshiba 3401e, the top of the line external Toshiba CD and it was closer to $700.00 Canadian. Nathan ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 203 Sat Feb 12, 1994 M.EASTER [Mike] at 14:31 EST (Alert: 3 screenful post) The Encyclopedia Britannica (EB) is going on-line electronically. In an article by John Markoff of the New York Times News Service published in the San Diego Union-Tribune 940208 was cited the intention to provide distribution via Internet. Currently, the database and its software interface are being tested at San Diego State University (SDSU). Beginning in the fall, the base will be available to universities by a variety of information retrieval methods developed by Internet researchers and undergoing commercialization. Later, the data base will be available to a larger commercial audience, after the academic distribution provides testing for the electronic version. The electronic EB, Britannica Online, being tested at SDSU uses "hypertext" links between the four components of EB via Mosaic software, developed by WAIS Inc. (Menlo Park, CA) via networked personal computers and workstations. This software was developed at the National Center for Supercomputer Applications at the Univ. of Illinois (Chapaign-Urbana). The interface displays documents and illustrations, highlights words and phrases with links to other docs by clicking on a highlighted block of text or illustration. EB execs plan pricing the base to universities as subscription based on student population. Pricing of general commercial distribution is still being discussed but might be done reference by reference; enabled by the WAIS and Mosaic software. Economics were the basis for EB publishing themselves rather than allying with an existing online, said EB exec Joseph Esposito, "..can't make any money licensing your content." "..many of the content providers have put themselves in a position where they're held hostage to the on-line services." At 225 years, EB is the oldest continuously published encyclopedia in the English language, and the largest revenue, $550 million. Currently the 32 volume reference contains 44 million words and 25,000 illustrations (online: 300 million characters, 2000 illus.) Its four components are the Index, the Pro-, Micro-, and Macro- pedias. The hypertext links are only in the online version. End info from the article. Sysops: those are my words above. Shouldn't be a copyright problem. The EB exec quotes were clipped as indicated. EB is too large a database for current CDROM (this msg may get moved). The article makes no mention of media requirements, compression tech, specific platform for the software or other important info. I've been trying to find out something about WAIS and Mosaic, and downloaded a recent 931201 EJournal article from the DigiPub library covering digital publishing hypertext authoring and retrieval software over multiple platforms, DOS w/ & w/o Windows, Mac, Sun, etc. but no mention of Mosaic or WAIS. Anybody know anything about this development? I may leave a post somewhere to see if any SDSU student or faculty have anything to say from experience. Mike Easter ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 204 Sat Feb 12, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 14:48 EST Nathan, Apparently this unit usually goes for around 239.00 and this was internal. It was single speed though and the 150 they had in stock at this price were sold out before the store opened. Line up started at 6:00 a.m. :-) John B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 205 Sat Feb 12, 1994 R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn] at 16:14 EST John Brenner, I believe the CDU-31 is _not_ SCSI, therefore not usable with the Atari. It's also probably single-session only, although that may not be as big a concern. If it _is_ SCSI, it should definitely work with ExtenDOS! Albert, That thought had occurred to me ... but you didn't hear a commitment (yet!). Roger ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 206 Sat Feb 12, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 19:19 EST Roger, >.....is _not_ SCSI...... That would have been my first question if there would have been any left. :-) Thanks. John B. ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 207 Sat Feb 12, 1994 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 23:17 EST I have read in several places the Encyclopedia Britannica would never be put on CD. The reason given is that it would cut into their print version profits. Consider the Oxford English Dictionary sells for $2700 in print form and only $900 on CD-ROM. If they only have higher education using it via internet they can have better control of their product. Thanks for posting the EB information, its very interesting. Roger, There is C source code out on internet that does provide audio over scsi for the Toshiba 3401. It currently only works with SGI Unix boxes. I read this in the C Users Journal several months ago. Also Merridian Data also has a similar utility in house. -- Albert ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 208 Sun Feb 13, 1994 M.EASTER [Mike] at 13:40 EST Albert - re EB never on CD This is the last msg I'll stick in this topic about EB and Mosaic, since the developments are of a digital publishing nature but don't currenty involve CDROM _or_ Atari SCSI. That's not topic "drift", it's topic abandonment :-) I spotted a msg in the DigiPub BB that said that Mosaic was an Internet "browser" and runs on Mac, Windows, and Unix/ X-Windows. Apparently it was featured on a recent Computer Chronicles and had a write-up in the Jan '94 _Wired_, a publication I don't know. I am getting curious about how big data bases are handled especially involving hypertext; I guess I'll roam around and see what I can find. Mike Easter ------------ Category 4, Topic 19 Message 209 Sun Feb 13, 1994 J.THOMAS12 [JT] at 13:55 EST I just saw an ad for bare Toshiba 3401's for $328. If there is any way you can afford it, buy it. ------------