========================================================================= (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== Category 4, Topic 10 Message 1 Wed Feb 17, 1993 E.VAETH [ED] (Forwarded) I am looking for the software package whih accompanied the older 80 track drive. I own a copy of st format version 1.2 1986 which came with the 40 track drive (360k). And as usual, I thought of upgrading to the 1.2MB TEAC unit model#FD55GFR149. Well, although version 1.2 can format 80 track drives,... it doesnt or just formats 1 side approx. 670k on the HD floppy. After downloading all pertaining files on GENIE and trying all the the various formatters etc. I still can not format the drive OR READ IBM or ST previously formatted 360k floppies. In retrospect, the only formatter that worked at all was the IB st format version 1.2 1986. as far as pin placement on the drive itself (d1) (fg) (dcry) are pinned. and all conections are sound. If anyone has this software or has any remedies or ideas, they would be greatly appreciated. Thanx, Ed PMI CORP. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 2 Thu Feb 18, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:34 EST Ed, What you are looking for is a formatter for 5 1/4-inch 1.2-meg disks, right? Not sure if I've seen one. Anybody here know where to find one? Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 3 Fri Feb 19, 1993 E.VAETH [ED] at 22:24 EST Al, yes, it's a 5.25 IB drive circa 1986-89, they have been discontinued by IB Computers on the west coast. I have been told that only TEAC drives work soundly with the ATARI and thats why I decided to remain in the TEAC realm for this particular upgrade. The problem is either in the format -ter itself or that some pin or tab or soldering has to be done or undone. There are some excellent files-formatters found on GENIE but unfortunately none work for this application. Thanx for your concern, Ed. *s ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 4 Sat Feb 20, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:46 EST Ed, I e-mailed a formatter that should take care of the problem. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 5 Sat Feb 20, 1993 E.VAETH [ED] at 17:45 EST Al, thank you for your effort. I will download it and let you know the results. Enjoy the weekend. Ed ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 6 Sun Feb 21, 1993 E.VAETH [ED] at 13:55 EST Al, The formatter is excellent and has pointed out a problem. The diskettes still will not format, although I can now analyze and change the problem. the disk checksums are always wrong for some strange reason. I correct them with the utility and then go to (re)format but alas, still can not format. Either I ve got a problem in my cable?? or something on the dip switches-pins has to change. Why would the 360k drive operate flaw- lessly, though???? The TEAC drives look identical to a point , most of pins and cables are located in the same locations and are coded the same. This leads me to believe that some contact somewhere has to be soldered or de-soldered. Should I take out my scalpel??? should I disect this beautifully new and sleek drive???? I doubt it. Awaiting comments and help. Thanx once again for your swift response. Ed ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 7 Mon Feb 22, 1993 D.ALVEAR1 [Dom Alvear] at 05:10 EST Brian, Thanks for the pointer to the correct topic. I still haven't gotten the 2- chip TOS to test whether or not my theory is correct. I guess I should just hop over to my dealer. Dom ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 8 Mon Feb 22, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:54 EST Ed, Well, I guess the thing I would do at the office (we have problems like this all the time) is to look for pre-formatted disks and give up for the time being. Or mail me any disks you have and I'll format them to 360K on a standard PC and I'll send them back at my expense. Otherwise, this sounds like a hardware problem, and maybe somebody in the PC area can help there. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 9 Mon Feb 22, 1993 E.VAETH [ED] at 21:28 EST Al, Formatting them to 360k is no problem when I re-install the 40 track drive. It would be nice though, to enter into that 80 track realm on 5.25 floppies. 1.2 MB makes a big difference. Especially when you have work on IBM's that on only have 5.25 drives. I-} have already talked to IB computers and the person that used build the drives no longer is with them. What gets to me is that as with the floptical, I'll bet that a simple soldering of contacts is all that is needed. I dont anticipate goi g into the PC realm though.... I would be surprised if anyone acknowledged me there..... "Atari what???" "they still make computers???" Take it easy, Ed ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 10 Wed Feb 24, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:43 EST Ed, To the contrary, there are some experts in the PC realm who know about Atari computers. One of the most respected of computer journalists is Jerry Pournelle, who championed the ST when it came out, and whose wife wrote an excellent reading program on the ST. (It has since been ported to other platforms.) Jerry has a basic-fee roundtable on GEnie. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 11 Sat Feb 27, 1993 J.KUDRON [Jim~ST Sysop] at 16:26 EST Messages #1-188 have been archived and are in the library-File #27881. STHELP7.ARC 29Sep92 to 17Feb93. Jim Kudron 27Feb93 ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 12 Sat Feb 27, 1993 R.BODEN [Rick] at 23:55 EST I was wondering if anyone could supply me with the pinout info for the video shifter chip in an old 520stf. Thanks Rick ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 13 Sun Feb 28, 1993 R.BODEN [Rick] at 03:04 EST Please ignore my message asking for pinout info on the Video Shifter Chip. I have found what I needed. Thanks...Rick ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 14 Sun Feb 28, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 03:23 EST Rick, if you are referring to the 40 pin dip it goes as follows: 1-Xtal0 40-Vcc 2-Xtal1 (32MHz in) 39-16MHz out 3-D0 (Data 0) 38-CS* (Chip Select not) 4-D1 37-DE (Data Enable) 5-D2 36-A1 (Address 1) 6-D3 35-A2 7-D4 34-A3 8-D5 33-A4 9-D6 32-A5 10-D7 31-R/W* (Read/Write not) 11-Load* 30-Mono 12-D8 29-R0 (Red 0) 13-D9 28-R1 14-D10 27-R2 15-D11 26-G0 (Green 0) 16-D12 25-G1 17-D13 24-G2 18-D14 23-B0 (Blue 0) 19-D15 22-B1 20-Gnd 21-B2 This ain't gospel, but it is the information that I have. Mike Allen HelpDesk~SysOp ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 15 Sun Feb 28, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 03:59 EST Rick, With the notch at the top, here's what my little book says: XTL0 pin 1 pin 40 +5V 32MhzXTL1 2 39 clk 16Mhz D0 3 38 CS D1 4 37 DE D2 5 36 A1 D3 6 35 A2 D4 7 34 A3 D5 8 33 A4 D6 9 32 A5 D7 10 31 R/W load 11 30 Mono D8 12 29 R0 D9 13 28 R1 D10 14 27 R2 D11 15 26 G0 D12 16 25 G1 D13 17 24 G2 D14 18 23 B0 D15 19 22 B1 gnd 20 21 B2 ===Tomas=== February 28, 1993 @ 0:17:03 am PST ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 16 Sun Feb 28, 1993 R.BODEN [Rick] at 12:38 EST Mike, Tomas, Thanks for that information. I will keep it for future reference. Rick ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 17 Sun Feb 28, 1993 P.LOUIE1 at 17:15 EST I have an Xwithcit! monitor switcher and the monitor ports seem to be too big or something, because the monitor cables come out very easily. Sometimes when I accidently knock my table or flip the switch, the cable comcomes loose, so when I turn on the computer, nothing shows up. Is there anyway to keep the cables into their ports on the Xwitchit! without gluing it in? Thanks. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 18 Mon Mar 01, 1993 F.BELL1 [Frank @ Home] at 15:27 EST P.Louie1, Just bend the round metel part of the connector slightly so that it isn't perfectly round anymore. I alway used my teeth. Don't use to much strenght though. Frank... ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 19 Sun Mar 07, 1993 E.JOLLEY [Eric] (Forwarded) I got a Beetle Mouse recently and have been fairly happy with it, but recently it has been giving me trouble. The problem is that it insists on locking up my mouse ball if I move the mouse far enough to the left. I've concluded it has something to do with third roller that isn't connected to any electronics. The mouse ball just seems to get jammed up against the roller. I've tried cleaning my mouse pad, the mouse ball, and the rollers, but to no avail. Has anyone else experienced these problems? Is there a way to fix it? -Eric ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 20 Mon Mar 08, 1993 K.CAVAGHAN2 [OakSprings] (Forwarded) Eric, I have the same problem with my Beetle Mouse. No fix yet; other than lifting the mouse up off the pad and putting it down :{ . Kent OakSprings Software ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 21 Mon Mar 08, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] (Forwarded) Eric, You might try category 4 topic 37. If I remember correctly someone has offered a fix in the form of replacing the ball. I also like the light feel of the Beetle mouse. I am on my second and I have a new backup in the box in reserve. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 22 Tue Mar 09, 1993 E.ROSEN [Ed Rosen] at 21:35 EST HD formatting problem here. All replies appreciated. I've got an Atari host adapter, an Adaptec 4000 (5000?, it has twenty-pin connectors for four drives) MFM controller, two MFM HDs and NO documentation. I don't have a problem formatting the Miniscribe 3425 with either the Supra formatting utilities or some old ICD utilities. I cannot format the Seagate 251 because it refuses to be recognized by the system. After it spins up, I don't get so much as a burp out of it by running Superboot.prg or ICDboot.prg, like I do on the Miniscribe. When I format the Miniscribe, I do it as the only drive connected to the system, SCSI O/LUN O, set via the dip switches. There are no DIP switches on the Seagate but there is a set of pins on the edge connector that are apparently for jumpers. I don't have the little jumper piece. Do I need it? I know that jumping the pair closest to the right identifies Drive Select 1 and so on down the line, but I don't really know what that means. Is no jumper Drive Select 0? How should it be set? There is also a set of pins on the controller that look like they are for jumpers too, and they are marked: A C G J DG PAR A4 A2 A1. I don't have a little jumper piece for it either. Does something need to be set here as well. Or am I in deeper trouble. Thanks to all takers. -Ed- Ed Rosen ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 23 Tue Mar 09, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 23:58 EST Ed, If you have the Miniscribe as SCSI 0 LUN 0, then you will need to set the Seagate as LUN 1. If you have it set to the same as the Miniscribe, it will not react and may wipe out your partition info on the Miniscribe (I found that out the hard way). No jumper usually means LUN 0. As far as jumpers on the controller, it depends on the system and the drives connected to it sometimes. You might try and find some Docs to the controller. You might call ICD, they may have some they can send you. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 24 Wed Mar 10, 1993 R.BROTHERHO1 [Rog] at 23:25 EST I posted this in another topic also, but I thought it might be a good idea to leave it here, too. Is it possible to use a PC monitor for an Atari machine? I'm thinking of buying a used 520 STfm with no monitor, and one of my students has as old PC monitor (monochrome, I think) for sale. Will this work ... what should I look for in this monitor? Thanks ... I'd appreciate any help. Rog. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 25 Thu Mar 11, 1993 RRWELDIN [ Ron W ] at 00:07 EST Ed Rosen, I don't know about the controller but you guessed right on Seagate no jumper is Select 0 or SCSI 0. If you are trying to use the Miniscribe and Seagate at the same time and don't have jumber blocks you'll have to set the Miniscribe to something other than 0. It is suggested with the older models to use something like 0 and 2 instead of 0 and 1 to avoid possible cross talk. .......Ron ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 26 Thu Mar 11, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:37 EST Message 24 Wed Mar 10, 1993 R.BROTHERHO1 [Rog] >Is it possible to use a PC monitor for an Atari machine? Rog, Sure, but not just any PC monitor, and I believe you will need a little bit of hardware. Check out the old messages in topic 24 of this category (4) for more information. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 28 Thu Mar 11, 1993 ICDINC at 09:23 EST Ed, THe controller is an Adaptec 5500 which is the same as a 4000 with support for 4 drives. - TOM - ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 29 Thu Mar 11, 1993 R.BROTHERHO1 [Rog] at 23:14 EST [>>Joe M.<<] Re: Using a PC monitor with Atari. Could you please be a little more specific? :) What should I look for in the monitor and what sort of hardware might I need? I did look in Topic 24 of this Category, but that topic is now called "Straight FAX". It looks as though the topic you refer to has moved. What was the name of the topic and/or what did it deal with? thanks again for your help and your quick response. Rog. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 30 Fri Mar 12, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:45 EST Roger, I guess I need to update my topic list. Sorry I don't have any specific information for you, I have to work from memory since I have a TT and it does use a PC type monitor as its standard and I have never saved the information you need. Taking a look at my vast supply of adds I did find: IB Multi-sync Switchbox $53.95 9/92 date from D&P Computer @ 1-800-535-4290 I don't know anything about them, but you might try giving them a call. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 31 Fri Mar 12, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 07:38 EST Ed, Please ignore my previous message as GEnie did not like some of the graphics that were used in the drawings. Here it is again: The following is direct from Seagate. I included the stuff for both the ST251 and ST251N. It should help you if you can follow the simple drawings... SEAGATE TECHNOLOGY, INC. Technical Support Bulletin Board 408/438-8771 [300- 9600 HST, MNP 3/5, N-8-1] (C)opyright 1990 ST-251 /:4:3:2:1:\ o O O O O o Power o o o o o o o o |:::::::::| Data Cable o o o o o o o o Controller Cable 1 5 G G 12 :::::::::: ::O O O O O O O O :::::::::::::::::::: ::: :::::::::::: O O O O O O O O |::::::::::::1 O O O O O O O O |:Terminator:| O O O O O O O O Drive Select->1 2 3 4 O O O | Radial O O O O O |:: Reserved O |:| O |:::: Write Fault O O |:::::: Factory Test O |::::::::: Never Used (Drive Select 3 and 4) | If twisted cable, use Drive Select 2 ST - 251 UNFORMATTED CAPACITY (MB) ________________51.2 FORMATTED CAPACITY (17 SECTORS) (MB) _____42.8 ACTUATOR TYPE ____________________________STEPPER TRACKS ___________________________________4,920 CYLINDERS ________________________________820 HEADS ____________________________________6 DISCS ____________________________________3 MEDIA TYPE _______________________________THIN FILM RECORDING METHOD _________________________MFM TRANSFER RATE (mbits/sec) ________________5.0 INTERFACE ________________________________ST506 TPI (TRACKS PER INCH) ____________________777 BPI (BITS PER INCH) ______________________9,935 AVERAGE ACCESS (ms) ______________________40/28* SINGLE TRACK SEEK (ms) ___________________8 MTBF (power-on hours) ____________________100,000 POWER REQUIREMENTS: +12V START-UP (amps) _2.0/2.5* +12V TYPICAL (amps) __0.5 +5V TYPICAL (amps) ___1.0/1.2* TYPICAL (watts) ______11/12* MAXIMUM (watts) ______29/36* BUFFERED STEP PULSE RATE (micro sec) _____3-200 WRITE PRECOMP (cyl) ______________________N/A (821) REDUCED WRITE CURRENT (cyl) ______________N/A (821) LANDING ZONE (cyl)________________________AUTO PARK IBM AT DRIVE TYPE ________________________44, 40, or 3** *ST251-0/ST251-1 **MAY REQUIRE PARTITIONING SOFTWARE ST-251N 5 G G 12 SCSI Cable /:4:3:2:1:\ o o o o ...O..................... o O O O O o Power o o o o ......................... |:::::::::| xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxXxxxxXxxxXxxxxXxxXxxxxXxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 1 2 4 P 1::::| 1::::| 1::::| Terminating Resistors ::N:: |: Parity Check enable |::::: ID Selects, ID 0 (none) for single drive system ST - 251N UNFORMATTED CAPACITY (MB) ________________51 FORMATTED CAPACITY (26/34* SECTORS) (MB) _43.1/43.2* ACTUATOR TYPE ____________________________STEPPER TRACKS ___________________________________3,280/2,520* CYLINDERS ________________________________820/630* HEADS ____________________________________4 DISCS ____________________________________2 MEDIA TYPE _______________________________THIN FILM RECORDING METHOD _________________________RLL TRANSFER RATE (mbits/sec) ________________7.5/10* INTERFACE ________________________________SCSI TPI (TRACKS PER INCH) ____________________777 BPI (BITS PER INCH) ______________________14,902/19,869* AVERAGE ACCESS (ms) ______________________40/28* SINGLE TRACK SEEK (ms) ___________________8 MTBF (power-on hours) ____________________70,000 POWER REQUIREMENTS: +12V START-UP (amps) _2.0/2.5* +12V TYPICAL (amps) __0.5 +5V TYPICAL (amps) ___1.2/1.4* TYPICAL (watts) ______12/13* MAXIMUM (watts) ______30/37* BUFFERED STEP PULSE RATE (micro sec) _____3-200 WRITE PRECOMP (cyl) ______________________N/A (821/631*) REDUCED WRITE CURRENT (cyl) ______________N/A (821/631*) LANDING ZONE (cyl)________________________AUTO PARK IBM AT DRIVE TYPE ________________________NONE *ST251N-0/ST251N-1 **MAY REQUIRE PARTITIONING SOFTWARE ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 32 Thu Mar 11, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] (Forwarded) Rog, In general, an old PC monochrome monitor won't work with an ST. A used ST monitor is your best bet. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 33 Wed Mar 17, 1993 J.REYNOLDS26 [James] at 17:44 EST Hi! I just hooked up an Atari 1224 color monitor to a 1040STE I have been running in monochrome. Two problems: 1) It self boots in low rez. 2) Some of my programs are skewed funny where the graphics are messed up. The programs seem to run ok but the read out is screwy. Are there some auto programs that will fix this? Signed, A color monitor neophyte ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 34 Wed Mar 17, 1993 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 19:12 EST It boots in lowrez? Change to medium resolution and then save your desktop, I don't know anything about your other problem. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 35 Wed Mar 17, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 21:02 EST James, If you have a STE with TOS 1.6 (not 1.62) than you will need a program called STE_FIX.PRG to put in your AUTO folder. This should solve the problem of your STE booting up in low rez all the time. TOS 1.62 solved the problem. -- Lou T.-- ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 36 Wed Mar 17, 1993 J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] at 21:13 EST James, What version of TOS are you running? I remember some problems with the DESKTOP.INF files not saving the resoloution with some versions of TOS. Sincerly, John E. Gniewkowski Editor, GEnieLamp ST ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 37 Thu Mar 18, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 04:09 EST James, Not all Atari 1224's are created equal. A couple of demos I have will not run on two of the three color monitors I have owned. ===Tomas=== March 17, 1993 @ 11:36:27 pm PST ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 38 Fri Mar 19, 1993 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 00:23 EST If it self-boots in low-rez, you have hit upon a known bug in TOS 1.06. This is fixed by the program STE_FIX or by upgrading to either 1.62, or better yet, 2.06! ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 39 Fri Mar 19, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 07:22 EST James, Do you have a desktop file on the boot-up disk?. If not the default resolution is low rez. What programs are screwy?. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Wednesday, March 17, 1993 - 10:13:46 pm ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 40 Sat Mar 20, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 20:13 EST I'm having problems with both Gemini and Teradesk zeroing their .inf files after I've set up everything the way I like it. Teradesk worked for quite some time. There is plenty of space on both partitions that I've tried this from, including boot partition. What might be going on? ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 41 Sat Mar 20, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:02 EST Meneldil, I fooled around with Tera quite a bit and found it very nice in some ways. I had no problem with the .inf files at all. Tell me what system you are running and what auto folder and ACC files are running when you use Tera. I'll see if I can help. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 42 Sun Mar 21, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 12:45 EST 4 megabyte 520 ST, Rev E motherboard, TOS 1.02, QuikST, Trech, UIS, Xcontrol panel, That's Snap, Edda in the Acc slots, And formdoit, vaccine, DCshowit, Antibomb, Cach3, Cookie, Folder300,StarSave,Serfix2, Anti-bomb,Screen driver, Silkmouse, Startgem,Superboot in the auto folder. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 43 Wed Mar 24, 1993 MIKE.KELLER [ST Aladdin] at 20:26 EST I am having a problem with periodic reboots of my 1040. It doesn't matter if the machine was just turned on or has been on for five hours. At first I thought it was connected to typing on the keyboard, but it has rebooted without the keys being touched. When it reboots, the screen goes black, sometimes for a couple of seconds, the power light on the ST goes out, then the machine comes back on and the screen relights and I go through a bootup. I have an Xtra RAM Deluxe upgrade in this thing. It has performed flawlessly for two months, BUT it's the first thing I suspect. There is a jumper under the keyboard that I soldered at one end,a nd when I open this thing up I intend to solder the other end. The ehck with alligator clips. I will of course also check the seating of the SIMMs. In the troubleshooting section of the Xtra RAM manual, it says if the machine crashes after some use, check: >installation of the MMU adapter board (the MMU plugs into it); make sure it is not shorting against any shielding. >installation of the Video Shifter adapter board, and the chip, and check for shorting. Is there anything else I should look for? If my MMU is going bad, how could I tell, and is this how it would act? I am certainly showing the memory I should have, so the problem is intermittent. I intend to crack this dude ASAP, but I want all the info I can get before I open it up. Help! mike.k ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 44 Thu Mar 25, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 00:32 EST Mike, Sounds like a power supply to me. If your power light is going off on the computer, then that would a very likely suspect. If you have access to a multimeter, attach the leeds to the power supply output and watch the meter while the computer is on to see if the voltage drops when it reboots. You will need to check both the 5 volt and 12 volt output. ***** WARNING ****** I think you know what this is about. There is a shock hazard when performing this test so I have to warn you to be very careful when doing it. There, I warned you. :-) ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 45 Thu Mar 25, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:34 EST Mike, I agree with Wayne. Look at the power supply. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 46 Thu Mar 25, 1993 STARFALL [Alan] at 09:56 EST It sounds like either a power supply problem, or a short somewhere. I presume you've checked this, but make sure that none of the memory board connections are touching anything they shouldn't. I'm not sure of where this particular board goes, but check that nothing on the bottom of the board is shorting to the motherboard. If there's no shorts, then the power supply is probably the problem. Memory boards take a lot of power, and some of Atari's supplies are marginal. I went through two Atari power supplies, and then got a Best Electronic power supply, which has worked just fine. / / * / Alan * * ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 47 Thu Mar 25, 1993 MIKE.KELLER [ST Aladdin] at 21:13 EST I agree, it definitely sounds more like a PS now. This evening, it powered off, and stayed off, until I reached around and wiggled the PS cable and knda fiddled with the PS switch. I never use the switch, since I have a PC Concepts power unit. The RAM board sits behind the video shifter box and between the PS and the FD. Like this ------------------------------------------------------- | | x x | | | Power | x x | | | Supply | x xSIMMs | Floppy | | | x x | Drive | |--------------- ____________ | | | | Video | |____________________| | |Shifter | | | ------------ | | | The SIMMs board sits on top of the shielding over the motherboard. One wire comes out of the VS box to the SIMMs, another comes from under the main shielding from the MMU to the board. Would shorting on the board or the jumper cause the power light to go out? Think the "wiggling" of the cord confirms the PS? I guess i should call and order a new PS tomorrow AM, huh? The drag is, the PS is the only thing I've replaced on this thing since 1985! Guess I'll get the Best supply from Toad. Wonder if I can have it on Saturday? mike.k ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 48 Thu Mar 25, 1993 P.GRIFFITH2 [PGRIF] at 21:56 EST I've been through several power supplies in my Mega 2(expanded to 4 megs). The original PS died right after I upgraded the memory. I got a Best which blew up one morning(so did my surge suppressor), think that was power company problem. I got another Best PS from Toad, it was much less expensive than buying directly from Best Electronics. Don't waste your money on an Atari PS, if the PS is indded the problem. Just my opinion. Paul ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 49 Fri Mar 26, 1993 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 20:02 EST Mike- Replace the power supply with one from Best Electronics, which is available also at some Atari dealers around the country. Doesn't cost much more, is more reliable, and runs cooler. Drops right in. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 50 Sat Mar 27, 1993 MIKE.KELLER [ST Aladdin] at 00:17 EST Called Toad at 10:35 this a.m., ordered the Best supply, said they'd ship it "toaday." Thanks guys. mike.k ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 51 Thu Apr 01, 1993 MIKE.KELLER [ST Aladdin] at 20:49 EST Well, I put the Best supply in my ST. It didn't help. Well, it _is_ better in that I can wiggle the cord or the power switch and it doesn't power on/off, but it is still cutting off on me. I borrowed a broken ST from a friend, and put my old power supply into it, and that's what I'm typing on now. Man, this keyboard is worn out! So, between now and Sunday, I decide whether to spend any more time working on the upgraded ST, or just box it up and send it to Toad for repair. Does anyone have any specific ideas of what to look for? I might crack it open once more, just to make sure the SIMMs are seated properly and various adapters are seated too. I'm getting to where i can open these STs up pretty quick! mike.k ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 52 Wed Apr 07, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 21:10 EDT A freind of mine and I own a Vavarone clock cartrige. his battery has just died and he can't find a replacement anywhere. I guess I will run into the same problem pretty soon. What is so special about this battery that it is so hard to find. ? I thought any jewler or would carry it but it doesn't look that way, Any ideas anyone? ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 53 Wed Apr 07, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 22:16 EDT See Flat, I no nothing about the clock cartridges, but Newark Electronics has a lot of different batts used in various goodies. If you have the number of the battery, you might find one there. They have a $25 minimum purchase tho'. Ken S. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 54 Thu Apr 08, 1993 ICDINC at 08:05 EDT Just match the voltage and find something to fit in the case that is close to the same size. Many computer clock designs use 3 volts for the backup. - TOM - ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 55 Thu Apr 08, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 19:36 EDT Thanks Ken. Tom, It is three volts and that's what I was thinking of doing to my friends clock. :-) By the way, I am a new owner of an ICD Link. As soon as I get my Syquest I'll surely ask you many questions! The person who sold it to me has said he did the licensing transfer on the software. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 56 Sun Apr 11, 1993 R.MESTON1 [Mycroft] at 01:13 EDT See Flat, I too have a Navarone Clock cartridge which I got free because it no longer worked. I took out the battery, went down to the local Radio Shack and bought a replacement for $1.99 right off the rack. Been working great ever since. Hope this helps, Roger ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 57 Sun Apr 11, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 04:56 EDT Mycroft, Thanks, I'll check it out this week. If they have one in stock it would be the best solution all around. :-) ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 58 Sun Apr 11, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 09:46 EDT Does anyone here know what TOS ERROR #35 is? ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 59 Sun Apr 11, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 12:16 EDT Long post warning! Flakes, Here is John Townsend's famous TOS error list. John is still one of the ranking experts on TOS, although he has been working for another company for the last few weeks. Note that error #35 is explained in detail after the brief listing. ======================================================================== EVERYTHING YOU NEVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT TOS ERROR NUMBERS ======================================================================== The GEM function which displays "TOS Error #..." does not display in the alert box the actual error value returned by GEMDOS or BIOS. Those return values are negative numbers (e.g. GEMDOS error -66 is "Invalid program load format"). Negative GEMDOS error returns are translated to MS-DOS error numbers for the form_error() alert box you see. BIOS errors result in a "Critical Error" alert, which gives you a chance to retry the disk access that caused the error. For those of you with a furniture fetish, here's a table: GEMDOS MS-DOS Error description error error Alert text (TOS 1.4 and later) ------------------------- ------ ------ ------------------------------ Invalid function # -32 1 TOS Error #1. File not found -33 2 This application cannot Path not found -34 3 find the folder or file No more files -49 18 you just tried to access. Too many open files -35 4 This application does not have room to open another document. To make room, close any document that you do not need. Access denied -36 5 An item with this name already exists in the directory, or this item is set to Read Only status. Invalid handle -37 6 TOS Error #6. Insufficient memory -39 8 There is not enough memory Invalid memory block addr. -40 9 in your computer for the application you just tried to run. Invalid drive -46 15 The drive you specified does not exist. Not same drive (on rename) -48 17 TOS Error #17. Seek out of range -64 n/a TOS Error #33. Internal error -65 n/a TOS Error #34. Invalid prg load format -66 n/a (the infamous) TOS Error #35. Setblock failed -67 n/a TOS Error #36. Note that some MS-DOS error codes do not have equivalent GEMDOS errors, and some GEMDOS error codes do not exist in MS-DOS. TOS Error #35, probably the most common error alert that is not self explanatory, happens when a program you are trying to run has somehow been corrupted. What it means is that TOS can not find some magic numbers it expects to find either at the beginning or at the end of the program file. This error is usually attributable to operator error (as in trying to execute an archive or text file as a program), or to bit rot. Here are the BIOS "Critical" errors, and the alert text you see when they happen: Error description TOS error Alert text (TOS 1.4 and later) -------------------------- --------- ------------------------------ Basic, fundamental error -1 Your output device is not No paper -9 receiving data. Unknown device -15 Drive not ready -2 Drive X: is not responding Unknown command -3 Please check the disk drive, Bad request (invalid length) -5 or insert a disk. Seek error -6 CRC error -4 Data on the disk in drive Unknown medium -7 X: may be damaged. Sector not found -8 Write fault -10 Read fault -11 General failure -12 Bad sectors on format -16 Write protect -13 The disk in drive X: is physically write-protected. Media change -14 The application cannot read data on the disk in drive X:. Insert other disk -17 Please insert disk X into drive A:. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 60 Sun Apr 11, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 12:23 EDT Flakes, the application isn't finding some of the resource files. Possible, it may have to be used on drive A. ~~~~Brian.... Written on Sunday 11 April 1993 at 12:26 p.m. AST ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 61 Sun Apr 11, 1993 F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK] at 18:21 EDT Hello out there in Q & A, I was wondering if there is some documentation available on the various 'TOS ERROR #XX' as well as a description of errors indicated by those dreaded bombs, or is it privilaged? After 7 years of using these things I am still curious. Frank ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 62 Sun Apr 11, 1993 F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK] at 18:30 EDT Al, I guess this will teach me to to run an auto before asking a question or quiestions. No need to resend the 'ERROR' again. thanks much. Boy do I feel stupid. Frank ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 63 Sun Apr 11, 1993 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 19:33 EDT No need to feel stupid, Frank. That's what we call Aladdin Lag, and while it can cause some funny contiguous posts, everyone expects it. Charlie/sysop jr. PS. there's your word for the day, everyone. ;-) ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 64 Sun Apr 11, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 20:10 EDT Thanks for the info, (especially the table) turns out I was telling the autoload to load INFORMER.DA3 instead of INFORMER.PRG. Silly me. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 65 Mon Apr 12, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:48 EDT No, Frank, no need to feel stupid. Aladdin makes us all look a little dim sometimes, but everybody who uses Aladdin knows this! Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 66 Tue Apr 13, 1993 ATARI.BENLUX [W. Kilwinger] at 03:34 EDT O-ZONE [Flakes] > > Does anyone here know what TOS ERROR #35 is? Beside the meaning explained in John Townsend's famous TOS error list I can tell you that most of the times you get a TOS #35 you have disk read errors or the file header of the program got truncated. Regards, Wilfred ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 67 Tue Apr 13, 1993 C.MURGA1 at 03:38 EDT Hello everyone. I have a question about my SC1224 color monitor. Is it possible to rig this monitor up to work directly (or indirectly) off the video and audio output of a VCR. Since I work mostly in monochrome on my SM124, I'm looking for an alternate use for the SC1224. I have an old VCR and would like to use it as the tuner for my monitor. I wouldn't mind doing a little soldering if I had to. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Chris Murga in B2 Land ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 68 Tue Apr 13, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:36 EST Chris, I think not. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 69 Tue Apr 13, 1993 STARFALL [Alan] at 12:13 EDT Chris, I don't think it will work. The VCR outputs composite video, whereas the SC1224 wants seperate RGB signals. Splitting the composite into the RGB is not a trivial operation, and would probably cost a bunch of money. / / * / Alan * * ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 70 Tue Apr 13, 1993 C.MURGA1 at 14:18 EDT Thanks Alan. Yeah, that's kinda whatI thought. I was hoping someone had found an easy way to do it. I think I heard somewhere that a Super Nintendo puts out RGB, I guess I'll look into that. Thanks again, Chris ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 71 Tue Apr 13, 1993 C.MURGA1 at 14:23 EDT Also thanks Joe for your reply. I didn't see it at first . Chris from B2 Land ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 72 Tue Apr 13, 1993 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 23:16 EDT Al -- Why don't you (if it's not already there) post that Error list as a text file in the library? Might be helpful for some folks. Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 73 Wed Apr 14, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:34 EDT Will do, D.D. I think's it here somewhere, but maybe it's hard to find; some of the little texts I've saved have been buried here in such things as XRR3TQZ.LZH and all that. :) Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 74 Wed Apr 14, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 22:44 EDT Just give it to me, Chris. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 75 Wed Apr 14, 1993 R.KOHORN [RON] at 23:53 EDT Are you all sure that the SC1224 can't read composite video. I have a cord that I can use to plug into my VCR from the Monitor out of my Mega. It carries all the info to produce a color picture. If you took the vcr signal and fed it into this pin of the monitor cable wouldn't you get a picture? ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 76 Thu Apr 15, 1993 M.SLAGELL [Mark] at 07:46 EDT Ron, Composite (NTSC) video is not a combination directly of R/G/B, but of luminance, chroma, and sync signals. Chroma breaks down into two color signals that have to be processed through a matrix to get the three primary colors, then the luminance signal is incorporated into each of the three before they can be sent to the monitor on separate pins. The sync pulses are also sent separately. The SC1224 doesn't know how to do any of that, so the card you referred to for your Mega must be doing it instead. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 77 Thu Apr 15, 1993 STARFALL [Alan] at 20:38 EDT I don't know if the Mega has the composite out signal or not. There's a pin for it on the monitor plug, but on most of the ST models nothing goes out on it. Anyway, the SC1224 ignores this signal, present or not. It only uses the RGB signals, which all STs generate. There are devices around to convert RGB to composite, but the only thing I've seen that would do the reverse is a video frame grabber, which would cost as much or if not more than just getting a regular color TV. / / * / Alan * * ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 78 Thu Apr 15, 1993 P.GRIFFITH2 [PGRIF] at 23:37 EDT In my Mega, the components for the composite out are marked on the motherboard, but the parts aren't there. I tried the Overscan mod on the Mega, and I think that part of the procedure involved installing the missing components. It never did work though. Paul ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 79 Fri Apr 16, 1993 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 02:38 EDT I think I remember that you DON'T have a composite video signal UNLESS you have the RF modulator. I vaguely remember that people with Megas needed the VideoKey box to get both Composite and RF. The MSTE has all the signals. _IF_ you have the right cables and _IF_ the ST puts out standard RGB then you can use one of the many encoder boxes on the market. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 80 Fri Apr 16, 1993 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] at 10:49 EDT Hi! I posted this same problem a few days ago. Don't remember which topic. didn't get an answer so I'll try again. Can I use a 5 1/4 floppy drive with my MSTe? I have used it with my 1040ST and it worked fine. I no longer have the 1040 but would like to use the drive with my MSTe - all I get is bombs. I have a stepper change program from A. Brown but all it does is give me a message that I have the wrong TOS. Is there a stepper change utility for the MSTe so that I can use the 5 1/4 floppy drive. I have a friend who has a clone with only a 5 1/4 drive and we could exchange disks of data but now he must finde someone with 3 1/2 drive to copy his disks so I can read them. It's a pain. I guess my friend will need to invest in a 3 1/2 drive. KenO. :) ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 81 Fri Apr 16, 1993 EXPLORER.3 [Jerry ] at 14:14 EDT Ken, I've used a freeware program from Double Click called DCFLPCFG.PRG on my ST, and it works great. I don't know if it will work on a STE though. Might be worth a shot. Jerry ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 82 Fri Apr 16, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 19:24 EDT Ken, If you can convince your friend to add a 3 1/2-inch disk drive, so much the better. They are about $40 if he shops around. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 83 Fri Apr 16, 1993 M.SLAGELL [Mark] at 22:36 EDT DCFLPCFG.PRG does work on an STe; but you have to run it from the desktop 'cuz it locks up if you put it in the AUTO folder. Is there anything in the library that sets the seek rate automatically? If not, I can upload something. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 84 Sat Apr 17, 1993 R.BROTHERHO2 [Rog] at 11:59 EDT HELP...! I just ran a test on my hard drives (I have two MegaFile 30's chained) and got the message that all the files on drives H and I have "bad subdirectory links". Could someone tell me what that means and what I should do about it (if anything)? All of the software installed on these drives seems to work fine. I chained the drives together without re-formatting because I wanted to save the software as it was installed on the second drive, so drives used to be drives . I don't know if that might have something to do with it. BTW ... Yes, I changed the address of the second drive from 0 to 1. Thanks in advance, Rog. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 85 Sat Apr 17, 1993 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] at 15:37 EDT Hi! Jerry,A1, & Mark; Thanks for the quick response. I downloaded a file #23540 used it and now everything is back on track. I can now use my 5 1/4 floppy with my MEGA STe. The file is SETSEEK.ARC by John Eidsvoog. The codeheads strike again. One other question. My friend has an XT clone can he hook a 3 1/2 floppy up to it? KenO. :) ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 86 Sat Apr 17, 1993 A.MASON4 [Anna] at 21:35 EDT After daisy-chaining your Megafiles, did boot your system from drive A: and run the SHDRIVER.SYS in the ALLDRIVE folder of Atari's HD utilities (so that the computer would recognize the additional hard drive)? You will need to copy it (SHDRIVER.SYS) to your root directory on drive C: (overwriting your old one). Anna ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 87 Sat Apr 17, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 21:50 EDT Okay, what does "application exitted witht status 7" mean? Should would be nice if Atari would include this type of info in their manuals so maybe the ignorant could figure out what they are doing wrong! Ken S. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 88 Sat Apr 17, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 22:45 EDT Ken, XTs can accommodate 3.5-inch drives without a problem, if the user is running DOS 3.3 or higher. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 89 Sat Apr 17, 1993 R.BROTHERHO2 [Rog] at 23:18 EDT Anna ... I did not run the Atari HD utilities after daisy-chaining the megafiles. What I did do was click on "install devices" in the desktop menu. The hard drive icons came up immediately and I was able to access all of the partitions with no problem ... all of the applications worked like a charm. I saved the desktop, and everything seemed fine. I was able to run programs, save data and even install new software with no difficulty. Do you think this is the reason for the error message "bad sub- directory link"? The message came up for only the last two of the four partitions on the hard disk in question. The first two partitions checked out perfectly. I'll look forward to hearing from you (or anyone else) again. Thanks for your help and your interest, Anna. Rog. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 90 Sat Apr 17, 1993 S.KIEPE [Steve@CNOTES] at 23:23 EDT Help needed! I've noticed my Mega 4 ST starting to act up of late and am trying to diagnose the problem as there is no Atari dealership within hundreds of miles (no surprise there). Additionally, some "ex-friend" absconded with my very expensive technical manual so I'm not as equipped with troubleshooting documents as I used to be. Anyway, here's the problem. I just changed hard drives, got a nice new 210MB Maxtor (scsi in a PLI case) with an ICD Link. All seemed to be OK and I transferred my data eventually. In the last few days though, I have noted MANY errors on my hard drive (confirmed by Cleanup and HD Sentry) that occur over and over again. Further, my floppys have started giving me a lot of trouble including the inability to read the same. Finally, the computer went through a period where every start up resulted in 4 bombs. (I wish I could remember what that meant!). My question is, does this sound like the DMA controller or MMU going bad? I need my troubleshooting trees! For now, I have to run Sentry every day (at least it's fast!) and Cleanup every other day, although they seem to report different errors (may just be a format/label problem). Thanks! ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 91 Sun Apr 18, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 01:35 EDT Ken, "Status 7" could be anything, if the message didn't come from TOS itself. TOS error 7 is "unknown medium"... Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 92 Sun Apr 18, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 13:52 EDT Rog, A subdirectory entry in a directory (like the root directory) has the location of the directory for that subdirectory. A bad subdirectory link (if I remember correctly) means that the location pointed to is not a valid directory. In other words, the location of the subdirectory may be pointing to sector that holds part of a file instead of the actual subdirectory. This is a somewhat common problem and can usually be fixed fairly easily with a good program. I suggest HD Sentry or Cleanup. Both have never let me down. To get Cleanup though for the Atari HD without the ICD host adapter, you will need to get the PRO version of their booter which I believe includes Cleanup that will run on a non-ICD host adapter. You will also get THE best HD booter software around. HD Sentry is a plain commercial program that is not host adapter dependant. I have not had any dealings with Diamond Edge but I have heard a lot of good things about it. I cannot recommend it as I have not used it. The problem could get worst if something is not done about it. Steve, Have you tried doing the twist with it or reseating the chips? by the twist I mean to grab 2 opposite corners and twist a little bit and then do the other 2 corners. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 93 Sun Apr 18, 1993 A.MASON4 [Anna] at 17:10 EDT Rog, When I recently daisy-chained my two Megafile 30s, I asked Bob Brodie for help . One of the things he told me to do was use the driver in the ALLDRIVE folder (from a disk in drive A:). I did this and everything works great. All I had to do was "install" the icons with NEW drive letters on my NeoDesk desktop. The computer recognized the new partitions without any hassle whatsoever. Everything that was on the 2nd HD was immediately accessible....no error messages/prompts. Give it a try and let me know if it works, okay? Anna ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 94 Sun Apr 18, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 20:14 EDT C'mon, let's twist! ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 95 Sun Apr 18, 1993 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 20:50 EDT Ken S. Atari manuals are not noted for their technical excellence. I have an STe, which got as it's manual a regular ST manual plus a 5 page "STe addendum." NOWHERE on the STe pages did it even mention that the computer has SIMMs!!! All it talked about was the new TOS (1.62) and it's features, plus it mentioned stereo sound. That much I could have figured out by looking at the back of the computer.... We can only hope this changes with the F030. --------- Rog- You might want to look into Oregon Research Associates "Diamond Edge" hard disk program. It unfragments, undeletes, partitions, compresses for reading or writing speed, zeroizes/wipes partitions, etc. It's the best, IMO. V1.03 is the latest. See cat 33, top 3. It does not matter which kind of host adapter you have to make the program work--I have an ICD AdSCSI+ adapter. The author is online and offers good support. It works as a stand-alone or in concert with ORA's excellent HD backup program called "Diamond Back II." ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 96 Sun Apr 18, 1993 EXPLORER.1 [] Ron [] at 21:56 EDT Bob, The Falcon30 has a good manual, comparable to what ships with the Mega STe or TT. Definitely better than what you would get with the typical PC ;-) -- Ron ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 97 Mon Apr 19, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:25 EDT Tomas, First the drop technique, then the shake (good for making sure there are no loose parts in your new Falcon), then the twist. I feel young again! Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 98 Mon Apr 19, 1993 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 21:48 EDT Ron-- Good to hear that. How many pages in it? Color? ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 99 Tue Apr 20, 1993 S.KIEPE [Steve@CNOTES] at 23:33 EDT Thanks to all for your suggestions, Found the problem with my new hard drive (and a bug with the old one). The new ICD DMA cable was bad, inducing intermittent (and sometimes continual) errors. I changed the cable, problem ends. Also, the disk I was having trouble with just happened to be bad too. Too many things going wrong at once... But I'm back in business! Steve ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 100 Sun Apr 25, 1993 R.GREIN [Randy Grein] at 12:19 EDT Frozen North, Ed Krimen - and others with dimming lights: Frozen North is right about your wiring being "defective"; the problem actually is excessive resistance in the circuit somewhere for the amount of current demanded. Usually this is a result of insufficient thickness in the wires. Also be aware that older houses use 2 not 3 wires for outlets which may confuse some surge suppressors or even make them ineffective. However, your computer is not likely to make a significant impact on wiring, as your color TV likely draws more current. It's much more likely to cause a problem with the computer (data errors lockups and resets) from reduced voltage when the heater goes on, or actual damage from the surge when the heater shuts off. BTW, portable electric heaters should NEVER be plugged into the surge suppressor supplying your computer, or if it can be helped, the same wall circuit. I'd hate to tell you how many mystery workstation lockups I've solved at work by simply removing an electric heater. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 101 Sun Apr 25, 1993 AEO.5 [Ed Krimen] at 16:43 EDT Thanks for the info, Randy! ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 102 Sun May 02, 1993 J.WILSON103 [John] at 20:32 EDT Anybody have the address for the CEO of General Electric? I have need to send that fellow some mail. One way or another I intend to git some satisfaction from Feedback. Thanks in advance. John ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 103 Mon May 03, 1993 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 20:02 EDT Maybe you should try calling GEnie client services @ 1-800 638-9636 before writing. (You'll probably get results this way, too!) ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 104 Tue May 04, 1993 J.WILSON103 [John] at 20:09 EDT > >Maybe you should try calling GEnie client services @ 1-800 638-9636 before >wr_[K)U11AI=1eQIMU1QMQ!%M]eQ== > ************ >Category 3, Topic 38 Sat Jan ;0. 1988 >K.FRANKLIN (Forwarded) >Sub: PROBLEMS & SOLUTIONS > >MINOR PROBLEMS $ SOLUTIONS TO HARDWARE PROBLEMS >3 new messages. > ************ >---------- Bob, I =think= this may have been directed at me...as you can see, your reply was garbled...this is a precise example of the problems I am encountering...notice the next category intertwined right along with your reply...to make matters worse, when I am trying to download a file, I might drop from 230 cps down to 50 cps and then the $ do add up! Thanks for your reply anyway. Sysop Brian has given me a suggestion...I will log on with Flash tonight and see if that has a problem. His suggestion was to try another terminal program...good suggestion I might add. Thanks all. John ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 105 Wed May 05, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:30 EST John, It looks like your term program or GEnie may have been confused by line noise. Are you using an error correction modem? Was GEnie slow at the time? When GEnie is slow it increases the chance that line noise will show up. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 106 Thu May 06, 1993 J.WILSON103 [John] at 21:01 EDT > >John, > > It looks like your term program or GEnie may have been > confused by line noise. Are you using an error correction modem? Was > GEnie slow at the time? When GEnie is slow it increases the chance > that line noise will show up. > > >> Joe M << > Joe, I do not know if my modem is error correction or not...it is a Supra Modem 2400...the example I sent in happens very frequently...this after being on GEnie for nigh on 2 years without incident...very frustrating to say the least! I bought the modem on-line here and have had no problems with it for a looooooooong time, and I still have no problems with it locally, sigh. John ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 107 Fri May 07, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:25 EST John, The Supra 2400 does not have error correction, that is why I have a Supra 2400+ . GEnie has been running slow with all the newcomers from another service joining us. The result of being slow is added line noise problems (if GEnie is just waiting then there is more time for the line noise to sneak in). >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 108 Fri May 07, 1993 JIM.K [Jim~ST Sysop] at 18:14 EDT John, I used to have the same problem that you describe. After _many_ calls and visits from Ma Bell, (With no success in eliminating the source of the line noise), I purchased a SupraModem 2400 Plus. The 2400 Plus is an Error Correcting/Data Compressing modem. Since I've purchased this modem, my problems with line noise are nil. Jim Kudron 7May93 09:48:48 ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 109 Fri May 07, 1993 R.WEATHERSTO [Rob...] at 22:16 EDT If you guys are recommending the 2400 Plus, add mine to the list. I had a problem with one local board and line noise which was completely eradicated by usng the 2400+. Rob... ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 111 Sat May 08, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 10:30 EST As I understand it, Supra has discontinued the 2400+ they are now making only faster modems. 9600 and above. There are still some 2400+s still out there if you hurry, or you can go right to a faster modem. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 112 Sun May 09, 1993 F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK] at 18:00 EDT Joe/Jim Thanks for answering John's message because I too have been having slow, foulup modem problems the last few days. Could be the weather here (Oklahoma) along with your info. Well ---- time to get a 2400 Supra + I guess (now all I have to do is sell the 2400) (G). Frank ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 113 Mon May 10, 1993 GENIELAMP [John Peters] at 11:38 EDT Frank, I just bought a Hayes 2400EC modem that is fantastic. It has error- correction, MNP-5 and V.42bis protocol. The best part is that this modem sells for $49.99 (!!!). (Bizmart) I've been playing with it for a week and so far no problems what-so-ever. --= john =-- ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 114 Tue May 11, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:04 EST Does anyone have a current address or phone number for MONOTERM? >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 115 Wed May 12, 1993 F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK] at 00:22 EDT John, Thanks for the info on the Hayes 2400EC, Ill try and look it up, it sounds like my kinda' Modem $$. Frank ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 116 Wed May 19, 1993 R.RIDDLE3 [THE RIDDLER] at 07:01 EDT Hi: Is there anyone out there who has a Discovery Cartridge? Or knows much about them? Riddler ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 117 Wed May 26, 1993 J.DINGA at 22:33 EDT The original STe's had bad DMA chips that plagued any hard drive after it was hooked up for a few hours. Does anyone have the serial# of those bad chips........._please_...........? JON ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 118 Thu May 27, 1993 ATARI.BENLUX [W. Kilwinger] at 02:30 EDT J.DINGA > > The original STe's had bad DMA chips that plagued any hard drive > after it was hooked up for a few hours. Does anyone have the serial# of > those bad chips........._please_...........? JON > These DMA chips were NOT 'bad chips', they were ST DMA's insteat of STE DMA's. The ST DMA has the number C025913 on it and the STE/TT DMA has C398739 on it. Regards, Wilfred Kilwinger ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 119 Fri May 28, 1993 D.STRACHAN1 [DON] at 02:11 EDT help! I just got a new used 1040ste-- i had been using an old stf w/ tos 1.4 upgrade and 4meg ram, the new one has tos 2.O6/4meg. was i supposed to get a TEC utility disk with some important stuff on it? The TOS info sheet mentioned this several times. When I boot and try to run an application program, the bee comes on but then freezes and nothing happens-- no aladdin, or other applications I am bummed out :(] . Any suggestions out there? Thanks in advance for the help! ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 120 Fri May 28, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 03:23 EDT Don, If your STe was upgraded with ROMs purchased from CodeHead, then the TEC Utilities disk and manual should have come with it. The TEC disk and manual can be ordered from CodeHead for $10.00 plus $3.00 S/H. ===Tomas=== May 27, 1993 @ 11:33:41 pm PDT ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 121 Mon Jun 14, 1993 D.LIVINGST11 [ErnestBovine] at 04:24 EDT Maybe this is the wrong topic, but I have a hardware problem, and I'm looking for suggestions. On my 1040 ST vintage 1986, keypresses often don't work. This happens more with some keys than with others, and more with some shift- combinations tha with others. For example, it happened only with Control-G at first. Now it's many keys, and not especially the most-used keys. It's a low-level problem. I wrote a simple diagnostic program that flips the screen whenever there's a level 6 interrupt request to the MFP chip. I.e., I point the vector at $118 to newk bchg #0,($8240-$10000).w flip screen (mono only) jmp (to previous $118 vector) and find that some keypresses just don't do anything, unless I press many times, or push the key sideways and up, or etc... It never misses a key-up interrupt, only key-downs. Could this be A bad connection someplace? A bad ACIA chip? Evil spirits? (Not likely here) A bad IKBD chip? Crud under the keys? (Yeah, I smoke cigarettes) A weak power supply? (On bootup, the mono monitor has a grid of flickering lines approx every 64 horiz pixels and every 16 vertical pixels, darker at the top of the display, which fades to normal after a minute or so.) Any suggestions? I'm not afraid to take it apart. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 122 Mon Jun 14, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 08:55 EDT It's dirty. Take the screws in square holes off the back, flip it and lift off the front, unplug the keyboard from the computer, then take it into the kitchen. ;-) [This is _my_ way, and your results may be different.] Send the kids off to get a box of q-tips. Pop off the keys you know are bad and hope you get enough dust off the rest to make the whole thing work. Using a toothbrush, very slightly damp with perhaps a touch of 409/Fantastic, brush between and around all keys. Follow with a thorough swabbing with q-tips. Set aside for a while to dry, just in case a drop of liquid wound up in the wrong place. Then reassemble and retest. Bad things can happen if (1) you screw up when you pop off the keys -- sometimes the mechanism they sit on breaks, (2) you get water on the circuit board and turn the computer on while the water is making an undesired connection, (3) you accidentally turn it over and wind up with a bunch of little rubber cups and keys whoes oops whose placement you haven't memorized, or (4) you forget how it goes back together. So proceed with caution. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 123 Mon Jun 14, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 08:57 EDT Yeah, I smoke cigarettes, too. And deal with machines used by small children with jello on their fingers. That's why I've followed this procedure enough times to learn what not to do. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 124 Tue Jun 15, 1993 D.FLORY [ALERTsys*Cop] at 08:18 EST Actually, you could probably get away with soaking the whole thing in water and mild detergent. Back in my early 800 days I spilled a glass of wine on my keyboard. I called Atari Customer service and the tech. asked me how brave I was. I said, "well moderately" and he replied to wash the keyboard in the sink. As it ended up that's what I did. Soaked it for about 20 minutes in warm water with Ivory hand washing liquid. Then for 20 minutes twice in plain tap water, then 20 minutes twice in distilled water and then in 50% water/50% ethyl alcohol (Vodka anyone?) and dried for a _long_ time with a warm, not hot, then cool hair dryer. I put a drop of Triflow, the teflon lube, on the stem of each key and put everything together. It was the best feeling, slickest working Atari 800/XL keyboard I ever felt. One of my people got coffee in a Mac Keyboard, and my wife got some tea in hers. Once it was well dried, no problem. I couldn't get her to let me put it in the dish washer, but it works anyway. (Just kidding about the dishwasher, I don't think they're _that_ tough, just not as fragile as I thought before I had washed one. (-: Happy Bytes :-) Dave Flory, ALERTsys*Cop 21:05 PST - 06/14/93 ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 125 Tue Jun 15, 1993 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 08:46 EDT Dave: I spilt ice tea on mine and it ate away my board. This was on the 130XE version. You see, I left it too long. :-) Or it had to be the strongest tea yet. :-) ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 126 Tue Jun 15, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 11:09 EDT I would NOT recommend washing any electrical circuitry in the sink, Dave. However, I will say that the external plastic shell of the ST and peripherals does quite well in the top shelf of the dishwasher. Also, smokers and users with grubby little kids will notice that the mouse needs a routine spruce up. This is very easily achieved using water and one of those green scrub pads intended for teflon pans. I clean up two schools' machines at the beginning of the year, and they start out looking like new, year after year. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 127 Wed Jun 16, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:24 EDT The dishwasher is safest, as Dot says. We do it ourselves. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 128 Sun Jun 20, 1993 D.LIVINGST11 [ErnestBovine] at 04:51 EDT Thanks, Dot, for the advice on cleaning the keyboard. Now I remember sort of meeting you in the smoking section (the doorway) at the Glendale show. I think I'll swap the keyboard from an old 520ST that I never use, and see if that works. Meanwhile, I don't see how I can get better contacts under the keys without doing more disassembly than you suggested. Or washing it like a dish, but I can't imagine actually doing that! ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 129 Sun Jun 20, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 13:03 EDT Ernest, Yep, wash it like a dish. Just dry it thoroughly. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 130 Tue Jun 22, 1993 J.REYNOLDS26 [James] at 21:37 EDT Hello! I've just noticed a message on bootup that says: Kiel virus in boot sector. This is partition C on my drive. Does anyone know what this is, or what PD program here might fix it? Thanks in advance. James. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 131 Thu Jun 24, 1993 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 20:26 EDT Try VKILLER, which should be here. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 132 Sun Jun 27, 1993 P.NEREO [Philip] at 17:02 EDT Hello all! The subject I would like to bring up today is a seemeingly mundane and boring topic, THAT IS DRIVING ME CRAZY!!! It is the clock or timer that is supposed to automatically set the correct time and date whenever I power up my system. I have a Mega 4 with a T-16 and Moniterm board. I also have an external hard drive box with an ICD Plus host adapter and 2 Syquest drives. Everything used to work fine. The time/date was set correctly and I never paid any attention. But now it's bonkers, and I hate to have to set it every time I use the system. I have tried putting batteries only in the CPU, setting time with Control panel or Harlekin ACC, reboot, and it's wrong (usually. Sometimes it works, seemingly without rhyme or reason.) I have put batteries in the host adapter only, and booted up with ICD Time in my auto folder, and without it but setting the HD Utilites to set time. And I have tried putting batteries in both. Does anyone have any guidelines or suggestions? ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 133 Sun Jun 27, 1993 R.WHITTAM at 18:48 EDT Philip, I have Z-Time clock in my Atari 1040 ST. So it probably is different then the MEGA with an internal clock. However, mine requires a RTC.PRG program in the AUTO folder to set the time "automatically" at boot up. Have you "cleaned up" you AUTO folder recently???? Ron Whittam Atari Boise User Group President '93 ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 134 Sun Jun 27, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 19:43 EDT Philip, I'll bet the ICD host software is trying to set the clock. Have you run the HD_UTILS lately? ===Tomas=== Sunday, June 27, 1993 3:59:12 pm ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 135 Mon Jun 28, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:24 EST Philip I agree with Tomas. Be sure you have the correct time set in your ICD. You need to run a ICD program to do it. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 136 Mon Jun 28, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 17:42 EDT Philip, What Tomas said. There are TWO clock utils in the ICD package. One sets the computer's clock, and one sets the ICD clock. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 137 Mon Jun 28, 1993 T.YURICK [T.YURICK] at 23:24 EDT Philip... Run ICDTIME.PRG and then set the time and date with the control panel. This will set the clock in the host adapter. It will remain memory resident, so to get rid of it you will have to reboot. TIMESET.PRG is the program that reads the host adapter clock and sets the computers internal clock. Regards, Tom ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 138 Tue Jun 29, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 04:32 EDT Actually I was going to suggest disabling the host adaptor clock and only using the Mega's clock. I have found the internal clock to be very stable and less problematic. ===Tomas=== June 28, 1993 @ 10:13:01 pm PDT ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 139 Tue Jun 29, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 07:14 EDT You will not need TIMESET.PRG if you have the newer ICD booters. Just go into HDUTIL.PRG and set it up to set the clock. I don't know and often wondered what clock would be used on my MSTE when I had an ICD HA with the clock on it and the clock in my MSTE. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 140 Wed Jun 30, 1993 STARFALL [Alan] at 01:42 EDT This is just a guess, but I suspect the Mega's boot ROMS set the clock before starting the boot disk. In that case, the ICD clock would be the one used since it would be set when the HD driver was loaded. I.e., the roms would set the clock but the ICD driver would reset it. You can, of course, turn off the ICD timeset option from the utilities program. / / * / Alan * * ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 144 Thu Jul 01, 1993 P.NEREO [Philip] at 23:34 EDT Thanks all for the clock suggestions. Just after posting my question, of course the blasted thing started working again. I gather the safe thing to do is set the 'set clock' option in the HDUtil prg and use the ICDTime prg in my auto folder. I seemed to be unable to set the system clock - so when I booted up, the same garbage was listed. Then I reset the time/date, but when I rebooted, it didn't 'take". ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 145 Fri Jul 02, 1993 D.CHARTER [Duane] at 20:56 EDT Philip, I experienced a 'similar' problem setting my internal clock using an auto folder program. I have a T-16 equipped 520, and the speed of the T-16 caused problems. There is a program in the library to turn the T-16 on and off. I have it before and after my clock program -- it turns the T-16 off, sets the time/date, and turns the T-16 on. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 146 Sat Jul 03, 1993 VANDENHEUVEL (Forwarded) Well, I hate to butt in here about another program but all this talk about Straight FAx being the "only" fax program for the Atari got to me. If you have a Class 1 modem or for whatever reason don't like Straight Fax, Tele-Office from Germany (but in English) works very well. HOWEVER (and this is where Straight Fax and Charles really clean its clock) there is no support here in the US, minimal in the UK and I'm still waiting for my GDOS and Speedo Drivers. It does work on Class 1 modems, has a very nice Calamus and 1st Word interface, runs as a desk accesory and is very reliable. You can get it mail- order from the UK at Systems Solutions (see any Atari import mag for the no.). --Dirk-- PS I now have a Supra 14.4 Fax/modem (I bought Tele-Office for my Hayes Optima) and was going to pick up Straight Fax to get the newest drivers, etc but after reading the last few messages I'm thinking I might want to be careful if the version at my dealer is <1.07.. If I bought the program today and it was 1.06 and I logged on to Toad with my reg no. how long til I'd get the upgrade?? (careful this answer NOT graded on a curve :}) ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 147 Tue Jul 06, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 15:27 EDT Would having an added on math co-processor speed up things like spredsheet or database calculations? Where can I get more info about this. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 148 Tue Jul 06, 1993 F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK] at 20:49 EDT Flakes, The spreadsheet and/or database must be written to include interfacing with a co-processor. If they were written to use a co-processor they will speed up thier use. Check out the documentation on spreadsheets and databases before purchasing to see if they will take advantage of the processor. Off hand I don't use either on the Atari so I am unaware of any titles that are so written but I'm sure someone online can ad this info. Frank ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 149 Tue Jul 06, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 20:54 EDT I don't think that any databases or spreadsheets on the Atari platform use the math coprocessor. Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 150 Tue Jul 06, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 21:58 EDT I thought LDW Power used one but I don't use LDW so I don't know. I don't think there are any commercial databases that use the processor. SHEET might use one but I wouldn't bet rent money on it. As far as I know only a few graphics programs use the coprocessor. I had high hopes when I bought my MSTE, but you mostly pays your money and takes your chances when you buy software, Atari or Other, on the assumption that it will do something you want to do in a future upgrade. The early compilers having buggy coprocessor libraries didn't help things either. --Ken (disappointed in my coprocessor slot) E. Don't get me started on the VME bus.... ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 151 Tue Jul 06, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 23:02 EDT DynaCADD has always used the math coprocessor, if one was available. :-) ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 152 Wed Jul 07, 1993 KING1 [Legion] at 00:29 EDT Hi all! I need some help with my Mega 4. For reasons unknown it re-boots when I insert a disc in to the disc drive. This is definately a problem because my sequencer program needs a key disc. PLUS I can't get this thing to un-zip ANYTHING anymore. I've tried STZIP 2, 2.1, and at least one other thing. Nothing is unzipping. (I wish that people would stick to LZH anyway!) Anyway, those are the newest problems. Legion ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 153 Wed Jul 07, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 03:36 EDT Keene, So how about that VME bus, eh? ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 154 Wed Jul 07, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 17:54 EDT I suppose that if I put a little nichrome wire between ground at the V+ I could use my VME bus to make toast or coffee. It's not totally useless, though. It just never lived up to its expectations of "cheap, plentiful VME devices." Dyncadd _does_ indeed use the coprocessor. I don't own Dynacadd. Will Calamus ever use it? You can't tell me that vector graphics aren't math intensive. How about the spreadsheet in Atari Works? ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 155 Fri Jul 09, 1993 M.MURRAY18 [big mike] at 01:44 EDT I recently bought a Canon IX12F / Navarone ST Scan system. The Canon is the legal size version of the IX12, but the Navarone software only will allow me to scan 8.5 x 11, so I can't get the last 3 inches that my hardware is capable of. I called Navarone and they told me that's just the way it is so I'm out of luck using STScan software. Any suggestions on how I can get the full legal size? Also, Is there other software that would greatly improve my capabilities and if so how? Touch Up, perhaps? Pagestream is my DTP software, but I generally prefer to print straight from ST Scan to the SLM804 since it's so time saving. Thanks, --Big mike ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 156 Sun Jul 11, 1993 F.BELL1 [Frank @ Home] at 07:02 EDT Vandenheuvel, I too use Tele-Office. What I really like is the number of drivers that are included. Heck, I just picked up Script 3 and it outputs directly to Tele- Office (or at least in Tele-Office format). One nice thing, for me, is going to be that Tele-Office is BBS updatable (Germanys just down the road from me) and of coarse all the latest drivers are online at TKR and free for the downloading. Frank... ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 157 Sun Jul 11, 1993 J.WILSON103 [John] at 12:34 EDT I asked this question in another topic, but unless I missed it, did not get a reply. If you are installing a new Hard Disk driver (going from HDX 5.0 to 6), do you have to reformat the HD first, or just run the install prg? John ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 158 Sun Jul 11, 1993 R.WEATHERSTO [Rob...] at 17:22 EDT Flakes... I checked my LDW doc's, and there isn't even a mention of using the coprocessor slot. (Likewise for DataManager ST and dbMan, although all of them are pretty old versions!) Rob... ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 159 Sun Jul 11, 1993 F.BELL1 [Frank @ Home] at 18:48 EDT John, Just install the new driver, nothing else has to be done. In case I don't know what I'm taking about you better make your backups first. Version 6 really doesn't bring you much if everything is working under version 5 though. Frank... ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 160 Mon Jul 12, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 19:43 EDT Guess I don't need one then. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 161 Mon Jul 12, 1993 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 22:51 EDT Ok... here's a few questions. I've got a two-bay hard drive, and I want to add a floppy to the second bay, then remove the 85 meg hard drive and exchange it with a 50 meg hard drive, then give the two-bay-with-floppy-and-50M-HD to my wife. 1) Can I use a 1.44 meg floppy mechanism, even though I only want 720K disks? 2) Is exchanging the hard drives as easy as popping one out and popping the other in? 3) What else do I need to know that I'm too stupid enough to ask? -Gerry ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 162 Tue Jul 13, 1993 J.WILSON103 [John] at 06:29 EDT >John, Just install the new driver, nothing else has to be done. Thanks Frank...I'll doer! John ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 163 Tue Jul 13, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:37 EDT Gerry, 1. Yep. 2. Yep. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 164 Tue Jul 13, 1993 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 23:40 EDT Thanks, Al! (Frankly, I was surprised to find out that I can use a 1.44 floppy for 720K disks... I'm guessing, then, that the logic for "size of the disk" lies in the computer and not the drive (that the drive is _CAPABLE_ of 1.44M, but won't do it until told)? Does that make sense?) -Gerry ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 165 Wed Jul 14, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:34 EDT Gerry, Yes, that makes sense. The caveat is that 1.44-meg disks don't like being formatted at 720K (in fact, it's just about impossible to do it right), whereas 720K disks format to 720K nicely in a 1.44 drive. (Actually, 720K disks are really 1-meg disks, and they format out to 820K with no risk, 870K easily, 890K with some slight danger, and 900K if you are daring. Then there is the German formatter that gets 1.1 meg on a 720K disk, but ...) Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 166 Wed Jul 14, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 20:29 EDT Al >The caveat is that 1.44-meg disks don't like being formatted at 720K >(in fact, it's just about impossible to do it right), So I am taking a risk formatting my 1.44 to .8K? I never knew that. they always work OK, SO FAR. SO yu recommend I don't do this? ~~~~Brian ... Written on Wednesday 14 July 1993 at 09:22 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 167 Wed Jul 14, 1993 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 22:10 EDT Al -- Mega-thanks again for the help. I truly appreciate it! -Gerry ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 168 Wed Jul 14, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:23 EDT Brian, The magnetic structure of 1.44 disks is different enough to make the recordings marginal when used in a 720K drive. Besides, since they cost more, and you don't get more data on them, why use them in a 720K drive anyway? Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 169 Wed Jul 14, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:38 EDT You're welcome, Gerry. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 170 Thu Jul 15, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 00:42 EDT Thanks Al! Sometimes, the sales are actually better than DSDD. Such is life. Yours Sincerely, Brian ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 171 Thu Jul 15, 1993 R.WHITTAM at 01:38 EDT >Atari-ST RoundTable >(Frankly, I was surprised to find out that I can use a 1.44 floppy for 720K >disks... I'm guessing, then, that the logic for "size of the disk" lies in the >computer and not the drive (that the drive is _CAPABLE_ of 1.44M, but won't do >it until told)? Does that make sense?) > > -Gerry The 1.44 floppy has a hole in the lower right (upper left, depending on how you hold it face up). It tells the drive its a 1.44, but you knew that. 1.44 formatted disks have 80 tracks with 18 sectors on each track. 800K formatted disks have 80 tracks with 10 sectors on each track. 720K formatted disks have 80 tracks with 9 sectors on each track. (if formated by default). Brian, the 1.44 drive technology allows the drive to pack twice as much data on the same track, as long as you use no more then 80 tracks you shouldn't have a problem. I would think that your 1.44 disks (designed for 18 sectors/track) would be stable having 10 sectors/track. Some adventureous ones have punched the hole in the 720K disks to trick the drive into formatting them at 1.44 (not recommended, but one contends they have no problems). Some company sells a punch for it since a drill will leave plasic filings. I don't believe "downscaling" the format (720K on a 1.44 disk) would be a problem, but many users DON'T 'cuz the 1.44 disks are more expensive. If you need a 720K, buy the cheaper 720K disks. Ron Whittam ABUG ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 172 Thu Jul 15, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 18:46 EDT As Al stated, 1.44 disk are made differently and thus will not hold a 720K format very well. It will last for a little while but, tends to loose the data. A 720K disk formatted to 1.44 will do the same only it will loose data at a quicker rate. If you want 720K, use the DSDD disk. If you want 1.44, use the DSHD disk. That is unless your data isn't very important. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 173 Thu Jul 15, 1993 TALISMAN at 19:12 EDT Al - Would a HD disk work better for someone trying to format to 1.1 Meg on a standard Atari drive? Mixed in with my other disks is a box of HD disks, which I use for various things.. I've never had trouble with them. Talisman ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 174 Fri Jul 16, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 00:06 EDT To all, Just for general info, not all 1.44 drives require the extra hole. Some early drives in the DOS machines actually physically checked for the whole. So says Peter Norton in a Norton book a friend of mine has. BTW, the 1.44 drive that is in my TT will format a 720k disk to 1.44, and read and write files to it. I discovered it when I had the wild idea, developed out of boredom, to try it. I'm in no way recommending using them as back ups or long term storaged of data, but if if you have 2 computers with 1.44 drives, and your file transfer system is "sneaker net", using 720 disks formatted to 1.44 or more (Neodesk 3.03), it would save $ on disks, and time. :-) Ken S. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 175 Fri Jul 16, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 00:57 EDT Talisman, No, no, no. The extra-density formatting of a 720K disk to something like 900K (etc.) is a physical process, not a magnetic one, and an HD disk won't help at all. Ken, Most users find that 720K disks work fine at 1.44. That's because of the latitude that manufacturers use when mixing the magnetic elixer, I guess. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 176 Fri Jul 16, 1993 R.WHITTAM at 02:39 EDT > As Al stated, 1.44 disk are made differently and thus will not hold a 720K >format very well. It will last for a little while but, tends to loose the >data. A 720K disk formatted to 1.44 will do the same only it will loose data >at a quicker rate. If you want 720K, use the DSDD disk. If you want 1.44, use >the DSHD disk. That is unless your data isn't very important. Al and Wayne, On what do you base the statement "thus will not hold a 720K format very well"? What experience have you had with LOST data? I have a few adventurous friends who have been using SSDD rated disk and formatting them at 1.44 for YEARS w/o any data loss. And I, as well as a few other here, have been using 1.44 at 800K with no data loss. 1.44 technology allows the disk to hold MORE data per track, if one is using this with LESS data per track I don't believe you will experience data loss. You may be confusing the problems PC owners have with Quad-Density 1.2 5 1/4 floppies verses 360K 5 1/4 floppies. Quad-Density used 80 track disks, and 360K used 40 track disks. Trying to format 40 tracks on an 80 track disk caused some real data errors, unreadable disks, and lost clusters. However, 1.44 and 720K both use 80 tracks. The 1.44 is just rated better and can handle more sectors per track (twice as many) then the 720K. Again, I don't want to be argumentative, I only want a better understanding and clarification for your statement. A statement, to me, that has the ring of truth, but lacks the substance of fact. Ron Whittam ABUG "Computer Operations Technical Support" by trade. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 177 Fri Jul 16, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:54 EST Message 176, Fri Jul 16, 1993 R.WHITTAM Ron, In the old days of 5 inch floppies most could be formatted either way with no problems. The difference was one of certification not construction (other than the notch) A 3 inch floppy has a different magnetic coating for HD vs DD disks. It has been my experience (I have seen real life problems) that formatting other than what the disk is designed for results in a less reliable disk. >> Joe M << Data Entry and PC Support Manager, Ohio Department of Taxation ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 178 Fri Jul 16, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:40 EDT No, Ron, I'm not confusing anything. Putting Super VHS tape in your standard VHS recorder won't give you a better recording or a longer-lasting one; it will just create a lousy picture. It doesn't matter if common sense tells us that more data is recordable on the 1.44 disks and therefore putting 720K on them should be a piece of cake, since the recording methods are magnetically just different enough to require a different type of disk. I agree that 720K disks usually work fine in 1.44 drives. I've found this myself, and read a couple of studies. It's part of my job to do this as a systems editor and computer manager and part of my interest as a writer. But I know of many cases in which a 1.44 disk when formatted and used in a 720K drive has not been reliable. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 179 Fri Jul 16, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 20:19 EDT Ron, There is no confusion here about formatting a DSDD disk to 1.44 or a DSHD disk to 720K. That is what I wrote and what I mean. My experience is from ACTUAL TEST, manufacturer's specs and many article written on the subject. The 1.44 disk are made differently from the 720K disk. The 720K disk cannot normally handle a 1.44 format because of the physical makeup of the disk. I have formatted a 720K disk at 1.44 meg and a 1.44 meg to 720K. I then put some information on them and after 3 weeks, the 720K disk formatted to 1.44 had problems reading the information. The 1.44 lasted for 5 weeks. 720K formatting and writing is different from 1.44 formatting and writing. ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 180 Sat Jul 17, 1993 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 00:29 EDT (Wow... I'm glad my stupid question started such a good discussion!) So, then, here's another stupid question: I've got my modem plugged into my modem port. But I also own this MIDI gizmo that allows me to have 16 more MIDI channels -- that plugs into the modem port. Is there some sort of an A/B switcher that I can use in the MODEM port to choose one or the other, without having to turn off the computer to do the switching? -Gerry ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 181 Sat Jul 17, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 07:06 EDT Gerry, Those switchers are all over the place for about $12-16. You need three DB- 25 female connectors on the back and a male/female DB-25 cable. It works well with Barefoot's SMPTE-Track. You don't have to power down to change serial devices, although a warm-boot doesn't hurt. Give it a try. Having to juggle cables can hinder creativity. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 182 Sat Jul 17, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 19:58 EDT Gerry, A $12 box will let you switch serial cables to a single input. Any computer store that discounts stuff like that will have one. Al ------------ Category 4, Topic 10 Message 183 Sat Jul 17, 1993 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 20:43 EDT Tomas and Al -- Thanks! Looks like I'm gonna be pickin' one up on Monday! -Gerry ------------