========================================================================= (C) 1994 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 4 Sat Jan 28, 1989 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] (Forwarded) Sub: Touch-Up from Migraph Touch-Up is the "Hi-Res Monochrome Image Editor". Released in Jan 89, it offers powerful features for editing scanned images or creating new ones from scratch. Technical questions/tips & hints go here. 201 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 1 Sun Oct 04, 1992 A.MASON4 [Anna] at 10:35 EDT Has anyone else received their Touch-Up upgrade yet? I called them a couple of weeks ago (since I had placed my order the middle of August) and found out that my order had been lost. However, I was promised that it would be mailed out the next day. I'm still waiting for it. The girl did mention, though, that Migraph was fixing a few bugs that had been discovered in the new version and that I would get the newest one......soooo, maybe they're still 'fixing' it, huh? Anna @ Atari Advantage ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 2 Sun Oct 04, 1992 T.MCCOMB [=Tom=] at 13:05 EDT I got my v1.8 last week. Much faster!!! -Tom McComb ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 3 Sun Oct 04, 1992 J.HAYDEN [JOHN] at 20:35 EDT I got my 1.83 and then a week later I receive 1.84! ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 4 Sun Oct 04, 1992 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 22:57 EDT Funny thing, I bought TouchUp way back when ya had to use the dongle and even though I returned my registratioin card, I've never heard word one from them about upgrades. Ya mean they are still in business? Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 5 Mon Oct 05, 1992 LYRE at 18:48 EDT Anna, I called Migraph about 2 minutes ago to order the ugrade (1.0 to 1.84) for $60. The lady at the order line said that mine should be mailed around the end of this week / beginning of next week. However, I mentioned that one of the Genie users had said that their were a few minor bugs to fix and that might delay her order. She said "Is that Ann Mason?" I told her I was unsure of the last name - but knew it did start with an M. She said that she knew that your order was sent out as she had sent it out herself. Hope it comes soon! :) BTW, did anyone here have v1.0 at some point? Can you give me any idea of what additional features I should see in this version? Oh, also, the lady at the order number (1-800-223-3729) said they were currently at version 1.84. Lyre ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 6 Mon Oct 05, 1992 LYRE at 20:25 EDT Swampy, What do you mean >I bought TouchUp way back when ya had to use the dongle... I'm *STILL* using the dongle (v1.0)! :) However, this matter might be remedied when version 1.84 comes. And yes, Migraph is still in business. I believe - from comments here and elsewhere - that Migraph may have had some kind of filing problem at some point. They had my registration but said I was "mis-filled" when I mentioned that I had never received update info on TouchUp. By all means if you are a registered user, Call Migraph at 1-800-223-3729 (their sales line) and inquire. Updating from 1.0 to 1.84 is costing me $60. Migraph will accept a credit card upgrade. Lyre ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 7 Tue Oct 06, 1992 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 18:13 EDT LYRE -- Thanks, a bunch. I'll have to give 'em a call. I understand that the later versions don't need the dongle. Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 8 Tue Oct 06, 1992 LYRE at 22:01 EDT Swampy, But.... but... then you mean - after about 5 years - I could actually attach my printer directly to my computer!?! Fainting.... Lyre ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 9 Tue Oct 06, 1992 L.BUDNICK [Lorne] at 22:15 EDT I received my upgrades from Migraph today. I received version 1.84 of Touch- up, 1.24 of the OCR software, the PS-400 Wand and the sheet feeder attachment. Just like Christmas. :^) I have not had an opportunity to give the Wand and Sheet feeder a workout yet, but the software appears to be alot faster. Hopefully I will get a chance to give the Wand and sheet feeder a workout by this weekend. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 10 Wed Oct 07, 1992 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 18:38 EDT LYRE -- Yeah yeah yeah! Think if I send them my dongle back, they'll know I'm a registered owner? Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 11 Wed Oct 07, 1992 A.MASON4 [Anna] at 21:22 EDT I called Migraph again today after I got home from work and was told it was shipped on the 29th. So, I would think it should be here any day now. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 12 Fri Oct 09, 1992 A.DEFFENDERF [ALAN] at 02:44 EDT Is Migraph doing anything to support Dave Small's SST board? At present the OCR or Touch Up do not work with it. I'd love to be able to use OCR on the SST. thanks, Alan ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 13 Fri Oct 09, 1992 LYRE at 19:59 EDT Alan, I just tried calling Migraph's sales phone number (1-800-223-3729) just now - Migraph is closed on Fridays! Sorry about not being able to get you an answer. You might want to give them a call on Monday/Tuesday. Lyre ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 14 Sat Oct 10, 1992 HAINES [Chuck] at 10:54 EDT The OCR software itself will work, but the scan will not, just like Touchup. I had hoped that the version that supported the STE cache structure would, but apparently the speed of the SST leaves the reads off syncwise. If you scan elsewhere, and then use the OCR on the SST, it is a lot faster than having a Mega STE convert to text, althought it is a hassle moving files to disk and over. Its really only pratical if you are doing a few pages. It seems that if if could work on the TT, it should work on the SST, but it isn't so. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 16 Sun Oct 18, 1992 JWKUEHN [Wolf] at 01:34 EDT I have received version 1.8. - though it works faster in high resolution I am unable to run it at colour resolutions higher than medium. I have an IMAGINE card which can deliver 1024x768 with 256 colours. It will not run at 640x480 and 800x600 and 256 colours either. What am I doing wrong. I hoped that the upgrade would run on these high resolution colour modes (few programs really are such as Calamus SL) Wolf ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 17 Sun Oct 18, 1992 LYRE at 11:03 EDT Wolf, I would suggest checking to see if it supports the IMAGINE card first and foremost in the docs. After that, I'ld suggest contacting Migraph. Considering how recent some of the new third party hardware is and the generally small Atari market, it may not have been supported. Lyre ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 18 Wed Oct 21, 1992 LYRE at 20:58 EDT Greetings! I'm happy to say that (FINALLY!) I've received my copy of Touch-Up 1.84. Just a question for those of you who have upgraded in smaller increments (I went from 1.0 to 1.84 directly). Should I save the old manual? Have any of you ever found the need for something that was in an old version of the manual? Was anything "dropped" or made obscure, etc? Thanks for your help. Lyre PS: BTW, can I get rid of the dongle now? ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 19 Thu Oct 22, 1992 L.HARTWELL [Larry H.] at 01:04 EDT Lyre, You can get rid of the dongle, but I would keep the manual. I started with version 1.56 and went to 1.65 on the way to 1.84, the manual for 1.56 is still useful (I've actually read it). I never saw version 1.0, but I doubt that anything was dropped in later versions, just massive enhancements and improvements. Larry ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 20 Thu Oct 22, 1992 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 19:02 EDT LYRE -- Ditch the dongle! Doesn't that sound liberating?? Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 21 Thu Oct 22, 1992 LYRE at 22:49 EDT Larry, Thanks for the info. To be honest, the only *immediate* improvements I've seen between 1.00 and 1.84 are: Text baseline Text speed increase (less then 10% I'ld guess) Load speed increase Scan Mode (the entire mode is "new" to me) Lightning Mode renamed to Draw Mode Lightning bolt icon changed to comply with name change Mandatory GDOS usage now optional That's it. Of course, to be fair I haven't really used the program enough to compare. This is basically an "off the cuff comparason" between the versions. Lyre ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 22 Tue Oct 27, 1992 H.WOLFE1 at 00:10 EST I've been following the messages about the upgrade to the newest version of Touch Up. However, there is one matter I'm not too clear about. If I upgrade from version 1.61 to 1.8+, (i.e. the $20.00 upgrade), does that get me just a new disk with a README file or do they also include a new manual as part of the upgrade? Thanks, Harvey Wolfe ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 23 Tue Oct 27, 1992 LYRE at 18:24 EST Harvey, I got the insides of the new manual. Not the box or the cover, just the paper. But considering my upgrade path (1.0 to 1.84), I might be outside of the norm. Lyre ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 24 Thu Oct 29, 1992 M.EVERHART2 [MIDIMIKE] at 03:21 EST For upgrade 1.6x to 1.8x you get a pamphlet with the changes listed. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 25 Thu Oct 29, 1992 LYRE at 19:42 EST Midimike, Wish I got that brochure. Yeah, I got a whole manual, but what changed? I have no idea unless I read the entire manual and compare it to v1.0's manual! Lyre ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 26 Fri Oct 30, 1992 VORTEXT at 21:59 EST I seem to have a problem with my .IMG files. This is not the first time it has happened nor can I narrow down the cause, but this is the result. ALL my .IMG files get corrupted such that Touch-up or any other program thinks they're color images. Is there anyway to fix these files? I'd really hate to have to reconstruct them. Daniel ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 27 Sat Oct 31, 1992 LYRE at 09:36 EST Daniel, The only thing that I could really suggest is seeing if their is a picture conversion program that will return them to black and white. I'ld offer suggestions, but I'm not sure of any programs that do this. Lyre ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 28 Sun Nov 01, 1992 R.CALSADA [Rich Sea] at 19:02 EST Daniel, LYRE has the right idea, if you don't have the conversion program, Wizzworks shareware Squeezem might do the job, its designed to compress the IMG, so if it reads the IMG after it massages the IMG it just might write a good header for it. Should be in the ST libraries. Bob and Chet (of Wizzworks) are usually in this area, so if Squeezem does'nt work, I'm pretty confident one of their programs might offer a solution. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 29 Tue Nov 03, 1992 R.COBBLE1 [ROD] at 18:05 EST Migraph - I don't know if you are here???? I would like to upgrade to the latest touchup. I hear of OCR? The Wand? I have never recieved any info on any of this.... I sent my registration in a year ago!!! How can I find out what is going on??? Does anyone have a tel# or address??? E-Mail?? Help. Rod ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 31 Tue Nov 03, 1992 LYRE at 20:21 EST Rod, Contact the Migraph Sales line at 1-800-223-3729 Mon-Thu till 4pm Pacific time. Closed Fridays I think. Touch-Up is up to version 1.84. It cost me $60 to go from 1.0 to 1.84 but admittedly, that is a very big jump. The Migraph OCR program is somewhere around 1.?? - I know it's been updated, but don't know the version number. More info on that product can be found in the OCR topic (Cat 5, Top 10). Go take a look - I've just taken the info from a flyer I got from Migraph and posted it. Lyre PS: I think that whatever system Migraph is using to contact users needs *drastic* improving. I was registered as of v1.00 and only received one mailing without first asking for it. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 32 Tue Nov 03, 1992 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 21:05 EST Rod... recent experiences here show that people were more successful in calling MIGRAPH directly at their offices. Notices and upgrades seem to arrive much faster. 1-800-223-3729 (Closed on Fridays). You might also want to READ 4 ALL NOR in CAT 7 for previous messages about upgrade path and prices for Migraph products. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 33 Tue Nov 03, 1992 L.BUDNICK [Lorne] at 23:03 EST Rod, The essential information for Migraph is as follows: Migraph, Inc. 32700 Pacific Hwy. S., Suite 12 Federal Way, WA 98003 U.S.A. Tel: 206-838-4677 9am - 5pm Pacific Standard Time Fax: 206-838-4702 24hrs In the US for product orders or upgrades only: Tel: 800-223-3729 LGB ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 34 Fri Nov 06, 1992 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 07:27 EST In message #31 Lyre writes: >PS: I think that whatever system Migraph is using to contact users needs >*drastic* improving. I was registered as of v1.00 and only received one >mailing without first asking for it. In defense of Migraph, folks needs to realize they are a *small* company that has continued to support the Atari platform and release "cutting edge" software followed by many maintainence upgrades. By small I mean THREE people. While I too would like to receive the flyers, I find that when requested they are prompt and courteous. In fact, I FAXed them a request for pricing information for upgrading Migraph OCR and 2 days later received the OCR 1.24 upgrade in the mail WITH the flyer. I am constantly amazed the CodeHeads can give the support they do and maintain their presence here. They are in a similar situation. It would be nice to have Migraph check in here regularly but I understand they do not. Realize again that something less than 40% of all users use a MODEM and even then how many regularly check in here? ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 35 Fri Nov 06, 1992 LYRE at 20:03 EST Binary Ink, In regards to my comment, I am not complaining really. It was said (mentally admittedly since you can not hear me via the BB) in a "statement" tone of voice. I agree that Migraph has produced very interesting products, but it must be admitted that they also might have some failings. The only one that I know of is their filing/update system. Considering how easy it is to produce a database (heck, they could probably use Cardfile) for things like name, address, etc this problem seems a bit silly. But I did not ever state or imply (to my mind at least, this medium of communication is open to a lot of interpretation) that the company and/or it's products were bad. Could the company improve? Yes - but so can 100% of any and all other businesses that exist anywhere. Lyre ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 36 Sat Nov 21, 1992 C.MONTGOMERY at 10:54 EST Is anyone having tou ]b a D )dM& . The scanner kit would've allowed me to use my hand scanner on both the Atari AND clone (Migraph was including a PC version of Touch-Up that would have been compatible with the Atari version, too!). Oh, well.....back to square one, I guess. Anna @ Atari Advantage ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 71 Tue Jan 19, 1993 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] at 22:16 EST Hi! For what it's worth. I just tried to use my Migraph hand scanner with touch up and could not get it to work. I hadn't used it in sometime and thought perhaps I had the wrong power supply as I have several of various volts around and thought I must have used the wrong one. However the power supply was not the problem - it was my computer. I had upgraded to a MegaSTe. Mike Dysdale informed my that I should try 8 meghtz instead of 16 and viola my scanner works again. So put that in your memory bank in case you need it. BTW now all my power supplies are labled - so I will get the right one with the right equipment. KenO. :) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 72 Tue Jan 19, 1993 FB [ST Librarian] at 23:21 EST KenO., Have you updated your Touchup to 1.84? I have heard that the speed problem was fixed with this version. Fred Beckman ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 73 Wed Jan 20, 1993 M.EVERHART2 [MIDIMIKE] at 00:45 EST Actually, 16mhz works fine. Turn off the cache. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 74 Wed Jan 20, 1993 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] at 19:47 EST Fred & Midimike, Thanks for the tips for my scanner problem. I will check my V # and if needed, update. Also as soon as I am off answering messages I'll check the cache solution. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 75 Wed Jan 20, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 21:04 EST KenO, Happy New Year. Did I say my wife remembers you? It might work if you just turn off the 16 mhz cache. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 76 Sat Jan 23, 1993 G.ZEPKA1 [Greg] at 16:51 EST Anna, That is very disapointing ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 77 Mon Jan 25, 1993 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] (Forwarded) Jim Posted this in 27. Seeing that it is a mixed message that belongs in both topics, I have duplicated it here. Category 27, Topic 6 Message 77 Wed Jan 13, 1993 J.WELLINGTON at 02:14 EST I have recently acquired a Migraph hand scanner and think my software's goofed up.. Does anyone have a copy of Touch Up, or something similar they'd consider parting with. I need to use this for some business stuff. The light does flash when the computer powers up but nothing after that when using the button. Any hints, comments? ideas? Thanks in advance. Jim ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 78 Thu Jan 21, 1993 WALLY.W [ _Wally_ ] (Forwarded) Howdy, Jim, did you click on the SCAN TO PAGE or the SCAN TO CLIP icons before pushing the scanner's scan button? I know this is an obvious question, but something I've seen several times. First you click on the icon with the picture of the scanner on it (this brings up another menu of scanning options), then you click on either of the icons that show a scanner and a page, or a scanner with a pointer to a small block. Then the program will ask you if you want to do this since it will replace whatever is on your screen. If this wasn't the problem just kick me real hard. :-) Regards, Wally ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 79 Sun Feb 07, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 12:28 EST Does Touch Up look for a specific SCSI # or device # for the 804? I cannot get the 804 to print from TU, but am okay when using the Outprint option. Thank, Ken ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 80 Sun Feb 07, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 16:28 EST Ken, I have the same problem with TU. No combination in the print menu works for me, but Outprint works fine. I think it may be just a matter of setting it up correctly, but I don't know how. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 81 Sun Feb 07, 1993 D.CHARTER at 17:18 EST Ken, What version of TouchUp are you using? I believe versions before 1.65 had a minor bug where when you called Outprint from inside TouchUp it would not find it. This was caused by the outprint module actually not being named the same as the internal name inside TouchUp. It was fixed in 1.65 (I think). You can also fix it by renaming Outprint.prg to outprint.app (again I think.) Duane ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 82 Sun Feb 07, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 22:38 EST Duane - I have vers. 1.82, I think. Definitely 1.8 something. I noticed the last time I used it that the hundreths decimal place was off a couple from what has been listed as the latest. I always upgrade the programs I regularly use. Ken ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 83 Tue Feb 09, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 23:26 EST Duane, I'm quite sure I have the latest version. I got it a couple of months ago with the Wand. I'll check it, and also try your fix. Later... I have version 1.84. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 84 Sun Mar 14, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 20:37 EST A question concerning Touch Up.... Why when you save an image as an IMG file, it will also create a small file with an extention GEM and all I can figure out is that it contains the IMG file name amoung other info. What is the meaning of this small GEM file that is created when you save scan as an IMG. It is not a GEM metafile. Can they be deleted? Is it the info that the built in slideshow uses? Thanks.... -- Lou -- ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 85 Mon Mar 15, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 00:04 EST [LOU][MACHINE] Both Touch Up and Easy Draw use the same print routine. It is Outprint.prg. The Gem file created by TU is so the Outprint program can print it. You can throw away the small GEM file as long as you _don't_ want to print it via Outprint. Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 86 Mon Mar 15, 1993 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 20:44 EST The GEM file format is an object-oriented graphics format, which means that the lines and shapes are represented by drawing commands in the file instead of pixel-by-pixel placement. Many object-oriented formats, including both GEM and PostScript, allow "bit-image" or pixel-by-pixel data to be included so that you can have the best of both worlds. GEM happens to "reference" an IMG file instead of including the bit-image data within the file. It is true that for most applications you can throw away the GEM file, since they will import the IMG file directly. However, according to Atari the upcoming AtariWorks will import _only_ GEM format graphics. To get an IMG into AtariWorks, you'll need a GEM file that references it. |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 87 Tue Mar 16, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 03:03 EST Ken, Thanks for the information. BTW, I have a laser printer that uses HP LaserJet emulation, do you know of a file for TU that will let me use Outprint with it? Thanks... -- Lou T.-- ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 88 Tue Mar 16, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 22:18 EST -- Lou T. -- When you print from TU, you have to have GDOS or substitute installed. Just get a copy of Migraph's Laserjet Driver and fill out the right spaces in the assign.sys file, or however you have your system configured. Does a nice job. Also, not all laserjet drivers give equal results, so I would not recommend someone else's driver. Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 89 Tue Mar 16, 1993 AEO.3 [Lyre] at 22:32 EST It should be noted that Touch-Up will create a complete GEM file with any IMG that you save. You can easily load a program into Touch-Up and save it immediately and get a GEM file. The only limitation is that the IMG must be black and white since Touch-Up does not allow color IMGs. Lyre 9:54 pm, March 16, 1993 ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 90 Wed Mar 17, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 00:35 EST Ken, Do you know if the Migraph's LaserJet drivers can be found on GEnie or not? -- Lou T. -- ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 91 Wed Mar 17, 1993 AEO.3 [Lyre] at 00:43 EST Ooops, sorry my head is in the clouds. The comment about loading *programs* should have said loading files. Lyre 12:40 am, March 17, 1993 ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 92 Wed Mar 17, 1993 SANDY.W [sysop] at 11:53 EST Migraph's printer drivers are commercial programs that Migraph sells. There are not PD. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 93 Wed Mar 17, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 21:02 EST Sandy, Thanks for the info! I will get in touch with Migraph and see if I can get the proper printer drivers I need. -- Lou T.-- ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 94 Wed Mar 17, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 23:15 EST --Lou T.-- Looks like the overseers got you the info before I could. :-) The driver works good with Wordflair also, BTW. Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 95 Fri Mar 19, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 01:46 EST Ken S., Thanks I will have to contact Migraph and get the proper printer drivers. I wonder if they have one for the new HP LaserJet IV yet? I do not have this printer yet, but I have my eyes set on it. (600dpi :-) ) -- Lou T. -- ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 96 Fri Apr 09, 1993 S.KIEPE [Steve@CNOTES] at 23:52 EDT Help needed! I've been doing a lot of scanning and filling of line art lately, Maps, etc, and I need to be able to fill various sections. I note that in Draw mode, or virtually any mode except full size, the fill icon works properly, but it only fills the area visible on the screen. When I select the Full Page View in Lightning mode, and then try to use the Fill icon, the icon selects OK, but fill itself is inoperative - it just doesn't work! As a result, there is no way to fill a large area with a consistent pattern - instead it breaks up from one fill to the next as several fills are required to cover a large area. The borders of each fill don't blend symmetrically. There mus be a solution, does anyone know what it is? P.S. I have a Mega 4 ST and I'm using a Moniterm monitor, and Touchup v1.8. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 97 Sat Apr 10, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 08:09 EDT Would the person who explained how Optimize works, or anyone else, for that matter, please explain it again? I forgot to note it in the manual, and can't remember how to use it. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 98 Sat Apr 10, 1993 P.MORALES1 [Pat] at 12:40 EDT Steve, When in normal draw, FILL requires holding down the key while clicking the left mouse button. And full size doesn't work in lightning mode, only size 1. You're right, FILLing across page boundries used to drive me nuts too. Pat ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 99 Sat Apr 10, 1993 B.ROBINSON5 [BRIANMATE] at 12:50 EDT Steve, If you can't see the entire section to fill in lightning mode you must go to the draw mode for fills. Be careful to backup as there is no undo. Select the color or pattern and while holding down the ALT or SHIFT button depress the left mouse button. The mouse changes to a bee while the fill takes place. It takes much more time than using the lightning mode fill. Brian Robinson ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 100 Sat Apr 10, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 14:22 EDT Steve@CNOTES Hazarding a guess, it sounds like you are in Lightning mode, not Draw mode. The two features are almost indistinguishable since most of the icon choices are identical. Fills only work on what is shown on the screen when in Lightening Mode. Or so says my manual on pg 11-32, 1st para. Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 101 Sat Apr 10, 1993 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 16:31 EDT Ken, To use the Optimize feature: 1) Enter clip mode and draw a clip around your object, making sure that the entire object is completely enclosed by the clip. 2) Press "Alt O" and the clip will "Optimize" around the object. Rob ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 102 Sat Apr 10, 1993 R.VOORNEVELD [BOB] at 18:32 EDT Steve, In the full page mode in touch-up just press the left sift key and the right mouse button to activate the fill. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 103 Sat Apr 10, 1993 S.KIEPE [Steve@CNOTES] at 22:48 EDT Pat, Brianmate, Bob, and others, Thanks for the note on using Shift and mouse button combo to fill in normal draw. I guess I forgot that (is it even in the manual? I couldn't find it!) Ken, You're right, but I didn't know about using the shift key in draw mode to get an area to fill. Live and learn! (And I thought I was getting pretty comfortable with Touchup!) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 104 Sat Apr 10, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 23:41 EDT Thanks a lot, Rob. I made a printout to insert in the manual, this time. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 105 Sun Apr 11, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 00:35 EDT Steve@CNOTES As the Boy Blunder might say, "Holy Read It, Batman, that's what the manual was for!!!!" . Word is that there are programs about to be released that will offer autotracing of filled areas, but my guess would be that the scanned image will have to be _really_ clean in order for it to work. I've found that it really doesn't take long to fill areas on autotraced vectors, editing however is another story. You might want to investigate some other graphic editors. While Touch-Up is decent and a perenial favorite of mine, I've found that others offer features not found in Touch-Up. MegaPaint (CodeHeads) and Invision Elite (DMC) come to mind. The features in these programs are powerful and allow you to pull off some great effects in short order. For that matter, you Touch-Up does as well. Expertice grows with experience so I would recommend that you spend some time experimenting with whichever program you select. You'll find many folks here are willing to help if you'll give them some specifics. -- Dave @ Binary Ink ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 115 Thu Apr 15, 1993 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 22:21 EDT Touchup is really designed for minor "touch up" of images. You're right, it doesn't have a lot of the features found in paint programs that allow extensive editing of images. Touchup loads a dirty image, cleans it up a bit (it has excellent tools for that), allows you to add text, and saves it. It translates to and from many of the common PC and Mac formats. In addition to Invision Elite and SpeedLine, there's DPaint from A&D Software, and (shoot, forgot the names) the advanced paint programs marketed by Codeheads and Gribnif. An autotracer converts a bit image into a vector image, e.g. IMG to GEM format. If you convert an IMG into a GEM, you can edit it in EZDraw, but it's a whole different technique than editing a bit image. If all you want to do is get a better image, you don't need one. If you need to have resolution independent images that look just as good at any size, or there are gray tones in the image that sometimes come out with funny lines when printed, then you might want to consider autotracing. |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 116 Fri Apr 16, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 01:35 EDT Dave [Binary Ink], I just happened to stumble on your message addressed to Steiny. I found it interesting. I have trying to decide on a good autotracing program myself. I narrowed it down to three or four. I appreciated your comment about Avant Vector. Though if memory serves me correctly, you are correct about the "high end" price of it. --Lou T.-- ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 117 Fri Apr 16, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 07:01 EDT Lou, If what you need is an autotracer (without editing tools), Convector is a good choice - the price is much more user-friendly than Avant Vector's and it works superbly. Especially on the TT. gnox ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 118 Fri Apr 16, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 08:00 EDT Steiny, I use both MVG and TouchUp. MVG has some nice features TouchUp lacks, and vice versa. There's an autotracing program for about $100. Can't think of its name and don't know how good it is. Sounds pretty good. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 119 Fri Apr 16, 1993 J.STEINGROBE [STEINY] at 22:17 EDT GNOX: Thanks for the help. I am using Pagestream for DTP and I am not using postscript. What I am basically trying to do is scan images in and put them in various documents. I do need to be able to resize them w/o losing too much crispness. What I was basically getting at is an easier way to edit/touch up the picture than pixel by pixel as well as a faster way also. I had my wife purchase Convector Pro for Christmas and I did not realize that I couldn't do much else with it besides traceing. Now I need a program that can do much more editing of scanned graphics. I hope that helps a bit more. I would also like say thanks to all the others who responded to my questions, I appreciate the quick response. I will be checking back soon. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 120 Sat Apr 17, 1993 J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] at 00:11 EDT Ken, Silhouette is a pretty nice auto-tracing program. Toad Computers just took over distributorship and are releasing the color version (known as 'ColorTrace') John E. Gniewkowski Editor, GEnieLamp ST ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 121 Sat Apr 17, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 02:56 EDT Gnox, Thanks for the tip on Convector, I'll look into it more. John, I was looking at Silhouette as well. I know that Toad is also having a special on them as well. --Lou T.-- ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 122 Sat Apr 17, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:43 EDT Steiny, There's been some excellent posts here already about when to use bitmaps and when to use vector graphics. If you're using PageStream and Convector, I can add a few tips because I use the same combo. You can do quite a lot of editing of vector graphics with PageStream itself, if you follow this route: 1. Save your Convector output in EPS format. 2. With a text editor, load the EPS file (they're pure ASCII) and change the `origin' line so it reads "Adobe Illustrator" instead of "Convector". (Or, even simpler, use the BULKFIX.PRG which CBARRON uploaded to the library here: it makes that change in a whole folder full of EPS files all at once.) 3. Use the ILLUSTRA.IMP module to import those files into PageStream. 4. Now you can Ungroup the graphic and use the Reshape tool and line or fill patterns to edit the graphic. And you can print the results with or without Postscript. As for preparing bitmaps for autotracing, Touch-Up does have some handy tools for that - you'll find most in the Clip Mode section of the manual. Megapaint is my own choice for this kind of editing, but check out what you can do with Touch-Up before you invest in another program. gnox ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 123 Sat Apr 17, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 11:59 EDT John, Don't know if I'm the right Ken or not (senility, you see) since Ken Van Dellan is probably out there somewhere, but I sent my Silhouetted disk and $ in a long time ago. The date mentioned at that time for the release has since passed, but because of Toad's reputation, I'm just sitting back and being patient. STEINY, I just remembered, older versions TU did not automatically set the program to match the 100, 200, 300, 400 settings on the scanner, so some enlargement and reduction of the items being scanned could be accomplished this way. There is something in the readme file about this automatic setting feature, but I don't remember what it is.v Their Scan and Save prg does not do it automatically. Dr. Bob has a scanner module for MVG that also allows this. Whether or not this will be acceptable to your "crispness" desire I don't know, but it might be worth a try. Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 124 Sat Apr 17, 1993 P.NEREO [Philip] at 12:30 EDT Steiny - Be sure to check out Arabesque Pro. I'm still a novice with it and Convector, but they seem great to me. And they are written by the same company and designed to work together. Arabesque is both a bitmap and vector, drawing and editing program. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 125 Sat Apr 17, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 21:21 EDT John, _That's_ the one! Silhouette! Thanks. I've thought about getting it. Ken, John was actually talking to me, but that's OK. ;^) I'm sure you'll get your program. Philip, Yeah, I thought Arabesque sounded interesting, too. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 126 Sat Apr 17, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 23:50 EDT Ken Van Sure would be nice if some of the people who post would include the entire nickname or the name as signed at the end of the message. That's why I started adding my last initial on my messages, to try to keep the confusion down. I guess we are destined to be confused all the time. :-) Someday we'll have to get together in the same place physically and really mess with their minds. If you get Silhouette, I'd be interested in what you think of the new Colortrace version. +50F in the shade north of the Arctic Circle. :-) Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 127 Sun Apr 18, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 09:54 EDT Ken & Ken, I've been lazy in not saying which Ken I'm writing to. I'll try to remember the need for a more complete name. Or maybe one of you could change his name to Harold or something? :) Ken S., we finally had 70 the other day. Then it snowed again. Oh well... Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 128 Sun Apr 18, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 14:54 EDT Al, this is Ken S. I'll be Harold, Ken Van can be Maude! ROTFL Sunday, April 18, 1993 +54 yesterday, slush everywhere. Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 129 Sun Apr 18, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 16:25 EDT Ken S., I didn't think there were many Kens around, but Ken Olsen used to be around frequently, too, so I went to Ken Van and he uses Keno. Maybe I need something shorter, like geopro. Nice temp. I took two buses of geology students into southern Ontario yesterday. It wasn't freezing, but it rained all morning, and we were releaved when it changed to snow at noon, because it was much drier. The sun came out when we were nearly home. I had the sunroof open today. Do you know if there's a convenient way to reduce the size of an IMG with TouchUp? Al, You're popping up in all of my favorite topics! Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 130 Sun Apr 18, 1993 S.LIVERSIDGE [STEVE L] at 19:01 EDT Ted: I've got a TT and the Migraph scanner; I've just upgraded to Touch-Up 1.8, and can now do 128-level gray scales. But you, you lucky guy, can do 256-level grays with your Golden Image scanner and TU 1.8! (It says so right here in the Touch-up documentation.) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 131 Sun Apr 18, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 21:34 EDT Ken Van, Resizing IMG's- Put a clip box around the entire IMG, hold the shift key, click on the appropriate button (1 of the 8) and drag it to where you want it. Save the clip area. The downside is TU gives you no indication as to whether you are retaining the proper proportions or whether the new size is multiple of your printer resolution, i.e. you will get best printed output from the newly sized IMG. I use Calamus to do this anymore. Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 132 Mon Apr 19, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:26 EDT THREE Kens! I wonder if Ken Olson is the same guy who founded Digital Equipment Corp.? Wouldn't it be great to see Atari heritage showing through in a DEC guy? Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 133 Mon Apr 19, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:44 EDT Thanks, Ken S. That's pretty easy. I wanted it for resizing Wand scans for STraight FAX, but find that if I scan at 200 dpi it should be the right size, and STraight FAX will adjust the size without trimming if I select the GEM file instead of the IMG file. (Great program!) Of course, I can use your helpful information for other things. I've been doing it the hard way. Al, Yeah, it would be, but he isn't. I've never met him, but we both belong to an organization made up of scientists who are Christians, to which he has contributed generously. It seems he doesn't usually make the national meetings. I think I sent him something about Atari once. As I recall, the article mentioned DEC and Atari in the same sentence (or paragraph), although I can't imagine how. The Ken Olson who is on here is a retired teacher who used to be in my wife's district. (Small world, isn't it?) Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 134 Mon Apr 19, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 23:16 EDT Ken Van, Your welcome. Glad I could help, as I have used a suggestion or two of yours from other topics. Ken S. Wonder how many Kens are just lurking about? :-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 135 Tue Apr 20, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:25 EDT Ken, That's an interesting account of an Atarian and the DEC maven.I've always suspected that the folks at DEC were conversant in some way with the designers of the ST, especially when you realize that the ST/TT keyboard uses the DEC layout. Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 136 Tue Apr 20, 1993 J.PATTERSON3 [Ted] at 22:28 EDT Steve, I can do 256-level grayscales and didn't even know it? Duh, guess I better take another look at the docs, eh? Thanks for the nudge! ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 137 Sat Apr 24, 1993 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 08:14 EDT I've just recently upgraded from Touch-Up 1.65 to 1.84. Since installing version 1.84 I've had problems loading the files generated by Touch-Up into Calamus SL. The Calamus import function appears to be loading the .IMG for a short period of time then the arrow cursor returns. When I check "Statistics" after an attempted import operation I find that RAM reads "0". If I go back to TU I can reload the file just fine. The file also will load into GEMView and some other graphics utilities. I run a fair number of auto programs to include MultiDesk, Warp 9, ICD Copyfix, AdSpeed, and the MoniTerm Driver, however, I get the same results with a stripped system. I had no problem with files generated by TU 1.65, and _some_ of the 1.84 files will load. The problems seem to occur more frequently with dithered images than anything else, but this could be due to their size. IMHO it shouldn't make any difference whether they where dithered or just straight line scans, but there seems to be some corelation. Has anyone else had similar experiences? I appreciate any suggestions or ideas regarding this problem. -- Dave @ Binary Ink ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 138 Sat Apr 24, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 09:15 EDT Dave, I presume you are using the new GEMIMG.CIR for Calamus SL? I have never had any IMG's from TouchUp fail to load. I use TU extensively for editing screen shots. Of course, these are monochrome. I am also aware of a problem with color IMG files. Have you seen the files uploaded by Kelly Webb? These might help. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 139 Sat Apr 24, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 10:51 EDT What is the secret to getting TU to print w/ the 804 from the printer icon in file mode. All I can get is printer error message. Is it tied to the SCSI #? Mine is set for SCSI 7. Thanks Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 140 Sun Apr 25, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 14:57 EDT I've never been able to use the icon, either. I could print from the menu if I had the ASSIGN.SYS set up right. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 141 Sun Apr 25, 1993 S.KIEPE [Steve@CNOTES] at 18:57 EDT When did they go to v1.84? I'm still using 1.81. I've not seen any announcements, so how did you get this latest version? ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 142 Mon Apr 26, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:01 EDT They sent out a newsletter a while back, with an upgrade notice. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 143 Mon Apr 26, 1993 S.KALEITA [SAK] at 21:42 EDT Hey guys, I also just upgraded to 1.84, as I was looking through the 1.8 addendum that came with the upgrade. I noticed that on page 7, that the picture of the pop up menu is not the same as what pops up in my copy of 1.84. I am refering to the fact that the picture on page 7 and paragraph on page 8, shows and states that we now have the ability to scan in landscape mode (Scanner Orientation). My version 1.84 doesn't even have the same pop up menu. Has anyone else noticed this ? SAK :) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 144 Wed Apr 28, 1993 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 07:08 EDT Steve: I noted the same difference in the pop-up menu that you mentioned after further reading page 8 it appears that you must have the "Scan and Save Plus program inorder for this feature to be active. Why Touch-Up requires Scan & Save Plus in order to scan in landscape mode is beyond me... -- Dave @ Binary Ink ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 145 Sun May 02, 1993 S.KALEITA [SAK] at 19:58 EDT Dave, I must of missed something...what is "Scan and Scan Plus"? Are these programs sold by Migraph? And what are they for? SAK :) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 146 Sun May 02, 1993 K.SCHAFER4 [Necromancer] at 20:40 EDT Ken, Ken and Ken, Just remember that there are TWO Ken. S's also! =) _Ken @ NecroWare Development_ (Ken Schafer !) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 147 Mon May 03, 1993 D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink] at 07:28 EDT Steve: The program is actually entitiled "Scan and Save Plus" from what I've read it's similar to Scanlite by Dr. Bob's. As I understand it, it's an accessory that permits scanning from within programs that lack the capability to scan. You can then save out the image and load it in to you program via conventional file loading. I use Scanlite because it will scan and import the scanned image directly into both MegaPaint II and STraight FAX with minimal hassle. I don't really need Scan and Save Plus for one feature in TU (landscape scanning). What baffles me is why Migraph would require the use of Scan and Save Plus to provide the (supposedly) fuller features found in Touch-Up. One would think their code would be similar and the coding could be transplanted from one to the other as well. Oh well.... -- Dave @ Binary Ink ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 148 Mon May 03, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:50 EDT Necromancer, OK, we'll use your nickname. Did you write the 8-bit program by that name? Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 149 Thu May 06, 1993 S.KALEITA [SAK] at 08:40 EDT Thanks, Dave I too use Scanlite; Maybe Dr. BOB will upgrade it to also do landscape scanning. I think it should of been part of TU , it would be handy to have in my case. However I don't think That I would buy a nother scanning program just for that feature, expecially since I already own two. SAK :) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 150 Fri May 07, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 21:55 EDT To All, Someone besides me was interested in how to get TU to print to an SLM804 from the printer icon without exitting to Outprint. Called Migraph today to find out, and have it now somewhat working. Although the book (yes, sometimes I read it) and Paul at Migraph said it should print without GDOS or G+PLUS installed, I have not made it do it from the printer icon dialog box. I do have it working with G+PLUS 1.5 installed. My version of TU is 1.82, running on TT with 4 megs ST ram. Set the device number in the laser controller to 5. If I remember the conversation correctly, TU expects the 804 to be device 5, since that was the way they were originally shipped from the factory. Paul also said there was an 804 driver that is TT compatible. Apparently the earlier versions of Atari's driver were not TT compatible. He could not remember the correct driver name. There is a newer SLM driver file in the library somewhere that I downloaded and the driver in this file is called SLM.SYS. This is the driver that I am using. I have only printed one file twice, and the results are incorrect. I suspect it is TU and not the driver. I will play later and post results if I do not forget. Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 151 Sun May 09, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 17:28 EDT Ken S., We'll await a more definitive explanation. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 152 Mon May 10, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 21:13 EDT Ken Van --- Looonnng post! I don't know if this will be definitive enough, but here goes. :-) I have an SLM 804 attached to TT with Atari PTC 1426 monitor. TT currently has only 4 megs ST ram. (Sadly, TT ram died and is on it's way to the hospital. ) How things will change when TT ram is fixed is unknown. I talked to Paul at Migraph. There were 2 things he said that seem to be the most important. One is the SCSI # should probably be 5. I changed mine from 7 to 5, and got it to work. It sounded like TU expects it to be 5. The other, and probably more important, is that 1.5 megs of free ram after TU is loaded is necessary for the feature to work. The amount of free ram available will be interrelated to 1) the number of accs and tsr auto prgs you load at boot up, 2) the amount of ram installed, and 3) the amount of memory setting in the defaults dialog box. First, find out what your free ram is after booting. I use Neodesk, and it tells me the free ram under the desk menu. In my case, it's @3 megs. Subtracting 1.5 megs for for the print feature leaves me with 1.5 megs for TU. If I understand correctly, then the max memory I can tell TU to use in the defaults box is 1500 K Bytes. I did not try this value, but I can say that with the TU default set at 1024 K, it works, at 2048 K it does _not_! When I tested the settings, I saved the new setting in the dialog box and exited the program each time to be sure the new setting was in effect. There is even an admonishment about the memory setting under the print icon explanation. Next, the question of "To GDOS, or not to GDOS, that is the question". The manual clearly states, in at least 2 places, that if you have an Atari laser and wish to print directly from within TU, you do not need to have GDOS installed. "Aye, Matey, and here's the rub!" I cannot get any print without GDOS. In the print dialog box that comes up when the print icon is selected, you have a choice of GDOS or SLM804. No matter what I did, when I selected SLM I got a laser printer error dialog box when I tried to print. GDOS or no GDOS. I never tried this function when the SLM was attached to my mega 4. So I suppose it could be related to the TT. It seems logical that the feature worked at some point in TU's history, or it would not be there. The trick to getting it to work for me, besides the memory setting, is to have the driver properly installed in the assign.sys file and to have GDOS loaded. I use G+Plus, and the acc loads the appropriate assign file when TU is loaded. Paul made some mention of an Atari driver for the SLM's that was TT compatible. I didn't know there was such a thing, and still don't. I use the latest version of the Diablo emulator in the library. I think the version is 1.4. When you dearc this archive, you will find an 804 driver called SLM.SYS. This is the driver I am using. This driver fixes a couple of bugs that are in the older driver. I've forgotten what they are, it's in the docs. In the assign.sys file, this driver will have a device number, in my case it is 29. In the print image dialog box called up by clicking on the printer icon, I select GDOS. I put in the correct device number. For me it is 29, for you it will be what is in your assign.sys file. Select fit to page or actual size, click on okay. Another dialog box comes up, asking if you want to print the image in memory, or from a file. I make my choice, and away I go. Sadly, the print routine does not work correctly. Not only is the image printed, but other areas of the paper are filled with portions of the image and/or garbage. The area containing the image itself is okay, just areas on the paper away from the image is messed up. I don't print any finished product from TU, so it is not a problem for me, just disappointing. I called Migraph to ask this question, and a couple others that were giving me problems. One feature, skewing vertically, doesn't work, and the other, the appearance of garbage in the image when the image(page) size is adjusted after loading the IMG, had apparently not been reported before. I have not decided on whether to call again or not. My version of TU is 1.82. So, Ken, was this definitive enough? Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 153 Tue May 11, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 21:30 EDT Ken S., Thanks a lot. I'll be very busy the next few days, but will check it out when I get a decent chance. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 154 Sat May 15, 1993 J.HAYDEN [JOHN] at 00:12 EDT Hi, I can get TU 1.84 to print without GDOS on the ATARI laser. I have the ATARI laser set to ID#5 and the only flag I have set on TU is TT MEMORY and I can print just fine. The slanting feature works fine as far I can tell. To make a long story short the old version 1.82 was getting garbage on the screen when I rotate and using other functions on the TT. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 155 Sat May 15, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 11:47 EDT JOHN, Thanks for the info, guess I'll have to call Migraph again and see what it takes to get from 1.82 to 1.84 Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 156 Mon May 17, 1993 SANDY.W [sysop] at 18:50 EDT Good luck. Last time I tried to upgrade, they didn't have me registered for the version I had, only the previous version. Of course I could have sent them my old disk as proof. Unfortunately, I can no longer find that disk and a number of others. Probably lost in the flood I had last year. No way I will pay twice to upgrade. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 157 Tue May 18, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:50 EDT Sandy, You should be able to find a lot of good character references here. ;^) Actually, your problem brings to mind something that has bothered me frequently. What happens if a disk gets destroyed in a disaster or lost in the mail on the way back for updating? I have my computer equipment and major software insured through my homeowner's insurance for all sorts of losses. Of course, they may cancel me if I file a claim. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 158 Mon Jul 26, 1993 M.MURRAY18 [big mike] at 00:29 EDT I have the Navarone Canon flatbed scanner system that I bought used recently here on GEnie. Can anybody tell me what powers touch-up would add to this system? What it typically cost? Also, My scanner is legal size, but the Navarone software (ST-Scan) will only allow my to scan up to letter size. is there any chance that Touch-Up might allow me to get the last 3 inches? Thanks, --big mike ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 159 Tue Jul 27, 1993 J.FOURNIER [John] at 23:18 EDT Mike-- Touch-Up will not allow you to directly scan into it. It will not let you scan legal size. I have the same scanner and Touch-Up. It is a limitation of the scan software. Touch-Up is definitely worth the money, though. It makes correcting those little scan errors easy (as well as other more advanced image operations). A must-have, in my opinion. -John ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 160 Sat Jul 31, 1993 R.JOHNSTONE1 [Robert J] at 02:17 EDT Mike, TouchUp along with the TouchUp/Navarone scanner accessory also from Migraph will allow you to scan directly into TouchUp. I did it this evening so I am sure if it. It doesn't support the legal paper. It is only a memory limitation, I don't know why Navarone didn't. When Mike Curry wrote the orriginal Navarone STScan software he was using a 512k ST that was expanded to 1 meg so the legal size didn't matter to him. There was no way that he could do it anyway. He would have needed about 1.5 meg just to dedicate just to the image. Personally I can't see why you need it. The files would be hugh just to save on disk. If I have a very large file to scan I use a copy machine to reduce it by 50% or better and then scan it. The results are just the same and if you are using it in a DTP program you can crop or stretch it and it will make no difference. The file will print the same. Hope this helps. Robert Johnstone Modesto, CAlif ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 161 Sun Aug 01, 1993 R.BEATTY3 [Buffalo Bob] at 02:51 EDT Big Mike... Have you seen any problem when scanning at 300 dpi? A friend of mine has the same scanner/software package and gets little -lin_es- that are scattered through the image. I think it also happens at 200 dpi but it is much less noticable. Plus, is their any other scanning software that you have found that works with the Canon? I tried it with my MiGraph OCR software, but the software wanted nothing to do with it... Bob Beatty Neutronics Honolulu, HI ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 162 Sun Aug 01, 1993 R.BEATTY3 [Buffalo Bob] at 04:35 EDT Touch Up crashes with MultiTOS. Any fix in the works? I've tried the standard fixes... Bob Beatty @ Neutronics Honolulu, HI ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 163 Sun Aug 01, 1993 R.JOHNSTONE1 [Robert J] at 15:57 EDT Buffalo Bob, Are the lines running vertical or just random. If they are running vertical... ie every 8th pixil it sounds like a cable problem. If they are scattered... I have no idea. I have been using the Navarone/Canon marriage for several years now both with Navarones STScan and the Navarone/Canon .ACC for TouchUp by Migraph with out any such problem. >A friend of mine has the same scanner/software package and gets little >-lin_es- that are scattered through the image. Robert Johnstone Modesto, CAlif ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 164 Sun Aug 01, 1993 R.BEATTY3 [Buffalo Bob] at 19:41 EDT Robert J. The lines run horizontally. Something similar to a "tight" smear. It appears to be entirely random. The fact that you have seen no such problem would indicate that he may have a hardware problem. We hooked it up to his TT, my TT and his Stacy with the same results all the way around... Bob Beatty @ Neutronics Honolulu, HI ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 165 Sat Aug 07, 1993 M.MURRAY18 [big mike] at 03:15 EDT Thanks John, Robert, and Bob. Robert, I want to scan legal size mostly for "psuedo Xeroxing" in my home. (I don't have a copy machine here.) Also it's just handy anyway. I scan a lot of sheet music that is bigger than letter size. Bob, I haven't noticed any lines from the Cannon scanner. I do have a problem with the scan gradually curving as it approaches the bottom of the page. Is this nornmal? How much does Touch Up + the Scanner ACC cost? Thanks, --Big mike ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 166 Sat Aug 07, 1993 M.MURRAY18 [big mike] at 18:37 EDT Thanks John, Robert, and Bob. Robert, I want to scan legal size mostly for "psuedo Xeroxing" in my home. (I don't have a copy machine here.) Also it's just handy anyway. I scan a lot of sheet music that is bigger than letter size. Bob, I haven't noticed any lines from the Cannon scanner. I do have a problem with the scan gradually curving as it approaches the bottom of the page. Is this nornmal? How much does Touch Up + the Scanner ACC cost? Thanks, --Big mike ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 167 Sat Aug 07, 1993 R.BEATTY3 [Buffalo Bob] at 21:59 EDT Big Mike, I haven't seen the curve near the bottom of the page; then again, I wasn't looking for that... I had my friends scanner for one day and was concentrating on the lines. I'll ask him about the curve. Bob Beatty @ Neutronics Honolulu, HI ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 168 Mon Aug 09, 1993 SAM-RAPP [<>] at 01:02 EDT I am having a problem with Touchup and my Golden Image Hand Scanner. I figure it must be the scanner at fault, but I saw no hand scanner topics, so I came here! On my ST (2.5meg, TOS 1.0) The scanner works, but you must move it VERY VERY slowly, and it still loses dome data. On my Falcon, it will not scann at all. The light comes on and stuff, but the image is garbage. Has anyone had this problem before? Does anyone know how to contact the Golden Image people? Please help me! -------> Sam "Help me Obi Wan Kenobi! You are my only hope!" ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 169 Wed Aug 11, 1993 M.MURRAY18 [big mike] at 01:48 EDT Thanks Bob. You probably would have noticed the curve if your friend's scanner did it. I suspect it's just a fault with mine. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 170 Sun Aug 15, 1993 R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{] at 03:07 EDT [<>] - >On my Falcon, ... the image is gargbage.< Guess what, on my Falcon my MIGRAPH hand scanner does wavey gravey. Migraph sez Atari went and changed all the odd bits to even bits or some such thing in the cartridge port. Whatever they did, they shot down using any hand scanner that works on other ST type machines. Why do they do this? Changes in the ports shot down Aladin as well. Good news is Migraph will make a working scanner for the falcon and in full color too, bad news is you will have to buy all new stuff. Well, I knew I was taking a chance when I bought a new machine just launched. I waited three years before moving from the 800 to the ST and I still had a bit of trouble adapting. Lucky for me so many people had gone before that the hard stuff was already worked out. Now we know what its like to be on the cutting edge. You get cut. =-= Grouch (:{ =-= ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 171 Mon Aug 23, 1993 M.POCHE [Mick] at 02:53 EDT Hello all.... I recently purchased a used Migraph hand scanner w/Touch-Up and so far I love it! What I'd like to know is what the latest version number of Touch-Up is. I have 1.56 now, but if there is a newer/better version available, I would like to know how to go about getting it. Any help would be appreciated.... - Mick ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 172 Mon Aug 23, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 07:06 EDT Mick, The current version is 1.84 (or higher maybe), and it's a vast improvement over 1.56 in several respects. Best call Migraph about the upgrade - (206) 838 4677. You'll need the registration number. gnox ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 173 Thu Aug 26, 1993 A.MASON4 [Anna] at 21:43 EDT I think the latest version of Touch-Up is 1.85. Anna ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 174 Sun Sep 12, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 15:21 EDT Anyone experience problems with hard drive paging with large IMG files? In my case the file is 1.3+ megs. TU version 1.84, TT w/ 4megs ST. G+Plus, Data Diet and DD Tools (latest versions), and Xcontrol are the only accs. It doesn't make any diff whether DD is on or off. The screen does not redraw after the Oh noooo dialog box either. Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 175 Wed Sep 15, 1993 D.FARRINGTO1 [David <>< .] at 05:09 EDT Can't help. The biggest picture I have is 600K. David <>< ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 176 Sun Dec 19, 1993 B.JENSEN1 [BJ] at 16:21 EST What is the max # of gray levels a MiGraph hand scanner can produce? Will another scanner (with more levels of gray) work if plugged into the cartridge that came with the MiGraph hand scanner and if so can additional levels of gray be used? ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 177 Sun Dec 19, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 20:38 EST BJ The original hand scanner would only do 128 greys. The current one will do 256. I do not know what the Wand does. Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 178 Mon Dec 20, 1993 B.JENSEN1 [BJ] at 01:44 EST Ken, Does that mean that all I need is different software (I am currently using Touch-Up) to access the 128 or 256 shades of grey? Do you (or anyone) have a problem with Touch-Up crashing when trying to save using GIF format. It has crashed on me every time. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 179 Mon Dec 20, 1993 P.GRIFFITH2 [PGRIF] at 02:22 EST Ken S. How do I tell if I have a newer hand scanner which will do 256 grey levels? I just bought a used Migraph hand scanner and don't know much about it's abilities. I am using Touch-Up 1.84(I think). Thanks. Paul ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 180 Mon Dec 20, 1993 B.WILLIS3 [Bill] at 18:51 EST BJ, I haven't crashed during a GIF save, but I often get a messed-up display of the image following the save. Changing magnification to force a redraw seems to fix it. (This is on a TT in TT medium rez) ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 181 Tue Dec 21, 1993 P.GRIFFITH2 [PGRIF] at 01:02 EST BJ, GIF saves work for me in TU 1.84, but take forever. Trying to save a clip in TIF format causes an instant crash. My system is 1040 STe w/TOS 2.05 and 2 megs memory. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 182 Wed Dec 22, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 00:41 EST BJ & PGRIF Oh, golly, how do I describe the difference in words. I'm not sure I can. Especially since I don't know what the current/new one looks like. The fact that the current one does 256 is in their latest mailout. That plus the fact I've had mine for a loooooong time lets me know mine only does 128. Oh and the fact the manual says so. No promises, but here goes! The old style scanner is the same one that came with early versions of PC Paintbrush/ Scanman combo on the PC. It was sometimes called the DFI Handy Scanner. I think it may have been called the Thunder Scan on the Mac, since there is/was a company that sold a plastic do- dad that clips on the scanner to help you guide the scanner in a straight line during a scan. Works good too! As you hold it for scanning, on the right side is a slide switch labeled 1, 2, 3, & 4 for scan resolution (100 dpi, 200, etc.). On the left side is a button labelEd "START", another slide slide switch with 3 positions labeled "PHOTO" and one labeled "PHOTO", and a thumb wheel for control the light and dark settings of the scan. There is a little green light that lights up on the top when the scanner is operating. That's about the best I can do, guys. Oh, the strain relief on the cord is round where it enters the back end of the scanner. Hope this helps. Something else that might help. TU 1.84 lets you select a 6X6 or 8X8 matrix when saving a greyscale TIFF. I get terrible results with the 8X8 setting, pretty good results with the 6X6. It shows up as you enlarge the graphic proportionately. I use Calamus SL for this, good printer controls for sizing and optimum printout. Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 183 Wed Dec 22, 1993 F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK] at 01:29 EST Ken S. You should use the 6x6 setting for your scans. The new scanner that will be coming out soon (from Migraph) will be able to handle the 8x8 setting. The 8x8 setting is used for with AlfaData and Golden Image Scanners. Off hand I beleive that the original Hand Scanner from Migraph (which I own) used with the older touch up would actually save in 'True 16 level Grayscale', such files would be used in DeluxePaint to color its palette, and 'Apparent 31 level Grayscale Pictures'. The 31 scale shrinks the size to 1/3 rd the size, the size of an black and white image. Each 6x6 cell will be converted to a 2x2 cell and the image saved with the 31 scale is saved as a 16 level greyscale. Boy! that get's confusing, and the more I try and read up on it the more my mind gets mushier (mew word ?). I use the Wand now and havent tried using the old hand scanner with it but, now you got me thinking (a dangerous condition). TouchUp 1.84 does save in 256 greyscale earlier versions did not, as I recall you were limited to the 16 and 32 (or Apperennt 31 greyscale) as Migraph referred to it. Frank ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 184 Wed Dec 22, 1993 F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK] at 19:10 EST Ken S. I found some documentation that was interesting. The ST with TOS under 1.6 will show only 8 shades of gray. TOS 1.6 and above will handle up 32 shades of gray (this is stated in the documentation from Migraph ver 1.6). This is in TT med rez. Begining with TU 1.6 and TOS 1.6 the Atari system using TU can save these grayscales. This is all based on the migraph Hand Scanner. I'll get to the larger grayscales in a bit. The Grayscales are induced by TU and the various Dither settings on the scanner.History and technology grows we get into the later versions with muchhigher grayscales which are also induced with by TU and not by the scanner itself which is black and white. The scanners will use a Dither setting along with the DPI setting for, let's say halftones, TU can then save these files with the various grayscales in TIFF, IFF etc. The Migraph scanners including the last edition of the Wand, I beleive, when used with the latest TU (ver1.84) should be able to save to all of the grayscales. The best doumentation I have found regarding grayscales was the small booklet (15 pages) wich dealt only with STe and TT grayscale images, which was 16 and 32 shades of gray. The higher grayscales are primarily for use in adding color to the images with paint programs. The new manual with TU (ver 1.84) has a chapter (13) with a very complete section of the higher grayscales, wich would make more sense if you had the original booklet sent out with TU ver 1.6 to read first. All Migraph scanners (up to now) will use the 6x6 format for grascale while others may or may not use 6x6 but may use the 8x8 format. The reason for these formats is the way the grayscale is applied to the image, which will cause the image to decrease in size. I think the 8x8 setting will cause the less loss of size with the converting the 6x6 or the 8x8 to a 2x2 cell with various shades of gray. This is a interpretation of mine and if any one can correct me or add any thing else to this thread it would be appreceated. Frank ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 185 Wed Dec 22, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 21:58 EST FRANK, Ah, reading the manuals, eh? True 16 and apparent 32 is what my booklet says. Of course, my booklet says to use the 8X8 setting for Migraph scanners, 6X6 for Alpha and Golden Image. Small error here, huh? Interesting news about the new chapter in the manual for version 1.84. Other than the booklets, I have no new documentation since my original purchase, something before 1.6. Too bad the booklets were not as well written and comprehensive as my original manual. What is the greyscale and dpi max's for the Wand? Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 186 Thu Dec 23, 1993 F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK] at 02:40 EST Ken, The Booklet that came with 1.6 Touchup upgrade is a excellent booklet with nothing but grayscale info and fairly well cleared my mind on grayscales. The Wand has the same setting on it as the Hand scanner with the addition of one more dither setting for a total of four whereas the hand scanner had only 3 dithers or 'dot sizes'. TIFF files save at 256 grayscale and IFF files save at 16 grayscales. When scanning 'halftones' that are to be saved with .IFF or TIFF you should always scan with a light contrast due to the reduction of size of the image because of the conversion from 6x6 to a 2x2 cell. I think the best way to look at it is: Touchup does the grayscale on the 'Save' the Dither gives you the halftone look with an IMG file. Frank ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 187 Mon Dec 27, 1993 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 21:10 EST Hi Guys, Heres my 2 cents worth. In practice, the Migraph scanner is almost useless for pro quality DTP (unfortunately.) I have used the wand and hand scanner for photo scans and then output the results to linotronic at 1200 dpi. Appearantly, the hand scanner can only do 16 level true grey scales, this is a hardware limitation of the scanner, not the software. The wand can do 32 levels of true grey scale. When saving as a TIF greyscale, Touch-up uses a grid and interpolation to simulate extra greyscales (up to 128 on the hand scanner and 256 on the wand.) The problem occurs when you import a picture scanned like this into a DTP program like PGS. When scanned on the wand, a 4 x 5 photo shrank down to about 7/8 x 1 inch when saved as greyscale tiff and brought into PGS. When attempting to enlarge in PGS to about 1.5 by 2 inches, the results were passable, but slightly fuzzy. For some DTP applications, the Migraph set-up will work, however I would readily fork over the money for more capable hardware, A scanner that would really do 256 greyscales would be great. I've been tempted to purchase a flatbed scanner, but $800 is too steep for me right now. I'd rather support migraph because they have been so loyal to the Atari market, so how about it Migraph? Rob PS My testing was done over a year ago so all figures and numbers are approximate and to the best of my recollection. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 188 Mon Dec 27, 1993 F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK] at 23:14 EST Rob, I have just finished using the Wand and scanning some photos with it and used them in a booklet that turned out fairly well. I scanned slightly light on contrast - using a smaller dot dither at 400 dpi - then in TU use the clip for cropping and saved out at 300 DPI and imported into PGS - once in PGS, select the IMG, open the edit coord box and set the LPI or as PGS calls Frequency and setting a screen from 50 to 70 (depending on what it will be printed on). You can also improve some halftones by rotating the screen for effects. I was Pleased and so was the Real Estate Co I did it for. I'd send you a copy but in checking I found I had already dumped it as it was dated and nothing in it would be used again. Frank ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 189 Tue Dec 28, 1993 P.NEREO [Philip] at 22:27 EST Rob - Sounds like you haven't seen the new color hand scanner from Migraph. It does grey scale and costs about $400. Works only with Falcon and soon TT, I think. What TOS and monitor are required to be able to work with greyscale images? Do you know if an SLM can print decent looking greyscale images? ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 190 Wed Dec 29, 1993 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 02:17 EST The Falcon version does 64 levels of true greyscale and line art at 400 dpi, and 18 bit true color at 200 dpi. Seems to work quite nicely...once I got the hang of it. Tried some H.R. Giger postcards I got recently :) --Brian ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 191 Thu Dec 30, 1993 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 02:41 EST Phillip, I saw the color scanner at Glendale and it was nice, but it still won't do true 256 level greyscale as I understand it, I think it was either 64 or 128 level. The TT has a nice 256 level greyscale mode in TT medium, I use it sometimes on my TT color monitor with pretty good results. As far as printing out nice looking greyscales, you really need to print at least 600dpi (HP laser jet IV), but 1200 dpi linotronic will give really professional results. Rob ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 192 Sat Jan 01, 1994 H.SCHEIE [HALS] at 18:55 EST anybody have Migraphs phone #? ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 193 Sat Jan 01, 1994 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 20:01 EST It's... 206-838-4677 ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 194 Sun Jan 02, 1994 F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK] at 04:40 EST HAKLS, Migraph Inc. 32700 Pacific Hwy S., Suite 14 Federal Way, WA 98003 Work Phone : (206)838-4677 Mmmmmm, Cardfile 4 works in Aladdinl. Frank ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 196 Sun Apr 03, 1994 R.JANSSEN1 [DAMIAN] at 12:16 EDT Is there a way to convert Cameron handy cans larger than one screen size to some other format usable within Touch-up? 'Dig you later, \\\\ o-o Damian. ~ (R.JANSSEN1) \_/ [X] ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 197 Sun Apr 03, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 18:57 EDT Damian, What format are files in? Touchup can handle IMG's larger than one screen and convert them to grayscale TIF's. 'Papa' ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 198 Mon Apr 04, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:40 EDT Is anyone getting missing pixels in the text? Maybe it doesn't happen with all type faces. I got it with Times normal recently, and have seen it frequently before. It's really annoying to have to go through my text and fill in the dots. I've had this problem since the program was new. It should have been fixed by now. Ken Van ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 199 Mon Apr 04, 1994 B.WILLIS3 [Bill] at 18:12 EDT Ken Van, I think the manual alludes to that problem, though it doesn't explain why it has to be so. They do recommend using the outline style of the font and filling it in when you're done as a work-around. ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 200 Mon Apr 04, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 20:49 EDT Bill, Thanks for the info. I didn't remember seeing it in the manual, nor did I see the workaround. Ken Van ------------ Category 7, Topic 4 Message 201 Mon Apr 04, 1994 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 22:02 EDT Ken Van, Ya gotta watch out when you select a fill for the letters also. At the right size, that missing pixel ends up in the out line, and the fill escapes to the entire page. Bummer. They tried to tell me it was memory related, but doesn't make sense, if larger letters work fine in the same image. Ken S. ------------